Conference turris::cooks

    In a gas grill how much lava rock should be present?  The grill
    came with insufficient rock to cover the burners.  I would think
    that the right amount would be a single layer covering the burners.

    
    I have about 1 and 3/4 bag/box of lava rock in mine.  About two
    layers deep in most places, deeper in others.  I have been using
    it that way for three years and always fire it for a while after
    to burn the excess fats away.  It may take a tad longer to heat
    up, but the burn is very consistent after that; and to me that is
    more important than using up the 7$ tank of gas.
    
    						.dave.

From:	COMET::RICHARDSON "25-Jul-1988 0827" 25-JUL-1988 08:45
To:	@MGRM,@MGRE,@SECRETARYM,@SECRETARYE,RICHARDSON  
Subj:	SAFETY BULLETIN



From: Bill Richardson
Dept: Env. Health and Safety

Subj: General Safety Bulletin

 The attached memo is a general SAFETY bulletin for your information. 
Please pass it along to all your employees.

 Thanks,

     
I n t e r o f f i c e    M e m o r a n d u m


To: IN-DEC AMC:                         Memo: 5389262347JUN06
    IN-DEC BSG:                         Date: Wed 20 Jul 1988  1:41 PM EDT
                                        From: DAVID DECAPRIO
cc: JERRY CAPRA                         Dept: MARKETING
                                        Tel:  262-8392
                                        Adr:  IND-2/D8

Subject: GAS GRILL PRODUCT SAFETY ALERT


The following is a public service announcement concerning gas barbecue 
grills.  The information was obtained from a WCVB-TV5 news broadcast 
last evening and a follow-up phone call to Sunbeam Leisure Products.  
It happened to catch my attention as I purchased the exact same grill 
only two weeks ago.  I've decided to pass along the information, as 
the company who manufactured the products has no way of knowing who 
may have bought the units in question.

Sunbeam Leisure Products manufactures a number of gas barbecue grills 
under the Sunbeam name as well as certain model Sears Kenmore grills 
and another label known as Yardmaster.  The grills in question contain 
a glass panel/window for viewing in the top half of the grill casting. 
It has been determined after a number of incident reports that this 
glass may explode upon expansion without warning sending fragments of 
glass flying.

The units in question use two heavy metal clips to hold the glass in 
place.  These clips do not provide adequate room for expansion of the 
glass upon heating.  It is recommended that if you have such a grill 
that you not use it until you have obtained a free replacement 
mounting kit from the manufacturer.  This kit is obtainable by calling 
Sunbeam toll free at: 1-800-641-2100.

The grill I happened to purchase two weeks ago was a Sunbeam model 
3148Z.  The upgrade kit for the window had already been included with 
the grill.  You will know you have the upgrade if rather than the two 
metal clips, you have two frame-like metal pieces that hold the glass 
and attach to the grill via two screws.  If in doubt contact the 
manufacturer directly.

Please pass this information along to anyone you know who may have 
such a grill.  Numerous complaints have been registered with the 
federal consumer products safety commission.  To date, Sunbeam has 
issued two press releases and made the upgrade kits available.  
Although my grill came with the upgrade, I would not have known about 
the problem without seeing it on the news.

Have a safe and happy summer
 
ex



    

    	Earlier this Spring, Weber introduced a new gas grill that they
    	claim will give the same flavor as their charcoal grills without
    	the mess. Have any of you purchased one yet and what have you
    	liked/disliked about them.  I have been reluctant in the past to
    	buy a gas grill as I don't believe they give the true flavor of
    	BBGing but the Weber advertising is tempting!!
                                                    
    	Any help or guideance would be appreciated.
    
    	Thanks
    
    	Bob
    
    	P.S.  Talk about a major investment - the best price I've found
        is $399.99!
        
    

    Save your money and purchase a standard old gas grill and instead
    of using the lava rock purchase some of this new charcoal for gas
    grills.  I understand that this stuff produces no ash and will last
    as long as lava but will loose the ability to give the desired flavor
    over time.  Then you just have to replace it.  I am going to purchase
    some of this stuff and give it a try.  I've seen it advertise on
    the tube but have yet to see it in the stores.
    
    Steve

    Re: .1
    
    I agree with Steve that it's not necessary to spend $400 to get a nice
    gas grill. Any of the major brands (Structo, Thermos, Charbroil, etc..)
    will work just as well as the Weber for a lot less money. A friend just
    picked up a 600+ sq. in., 42000BTU Charbroil on sale for under $200.
    
    As far as the gas grill charcoal is concerned...The Charbroil that my
    friend purchased (and that I assembled for him ;^] ) came equipped with
    a bag of this charcoal as opposed to the standard lava rocks. The book
    said that these briquettes would last for approx 12 hours of cooking
    time before they lost their flavor. They do *not* disintegrate like
    regular charcoal, but they will change color over time. After that point, 
    however, they could still be used, but would primarily transfer heat 
    rather than flavor. Replacement bags could be ordered from the 
    manufacturer, but should also be available at some of the larger grill 
    retailers (Lechmere's, Bradlees', etc.) that carry Charbroil units.
    
    Good luck,
    
    Freddie (who barbeques year-round on a 600+ sq.in, 40000+BTU Structo)

 I have a small table top bbq that uses 1 lb gas bottles or can be converted
 to 20 lb bottle.any way with the lava rocks I add wood chips.they come in
 flavors of pineapple,muscet,hickory,and pecan.inst say to pre soak in
 water munin 15 minutes and add to fire for smoky flavor.and they do
 a good job too.all for under $20

    RE .3
    
    You then have the problem of ash in your gas grill.  What I do is
    place a handfull in aluminum foil wad it up with an opening at the
    top.  Place this in the grill several minutes before you start cooking.
    This works great because when the would is ash just tose the foil
    and ash in the trash.
    
    Steve    

    	RE: .1 & .2
    
    	MY THANKS TO BOTH OF YOU FOR YOUR ADVICE AND HELP.  I'VE LOOKED
    	AT SEVERAL PLACES THAT SELL ONLY BBQ EQUIPMENT AND HAVEN'T BEEN
    	ABLE TO FIND THE CHARCOLE THAT YOU MENTIONED FOR GAS GRILLS.  THIS
    	MAY BE ONE OF THOSE RARE OCCASIONS WHERE THE EAST COST IS AHEAD
    	OF THE WEST COAST - I.E. CALIFORNIA!  IF YOU SEE IT BEING SOLD,
    	COULD YOU JOT DOWN THE MFG'S NAME AND ADDRESS FOR ME.  I'LL DROP
    	THEM A LINE AND FIND OUT WHERE IN CA I CAN GET IT.
        
    	THANKS.
    
   	BOB
        
    	P.S.  LOOKING AT A CHARBROIL GRILL FOR ABOUT $200 COULDN'T SEE
    	THE INVESTMENT IN THE WEBER.

    Re: .5
    Bob I saw some in Wards here in Colorado Springs it looked interesting
    /but @ $11 for a small bag I passed it by......<DICK>
    

	Someone mentioned a THERMOS a few notes back, I've seen some
	brochures for their gas-grills, but cannot find a shop that
	has the real thing. Before I invest the $$$ on one, can any
	reccommend/not_recommend them?

Keith

PS - I am only interested in a gas-grill

    
    Well, I've always wanted a smoker type grill, and I finally went out
    and bought one.  Over the weekend I used it to cook some chicken 
    breasts, and again to cook some ribs.  Basically, I'm looking for some
    tips from some of you who have been using smokers for a while.  The
    highest I could get the heat according to the thermometer was 180 or
    so which worked fine, the food was delicious and cooked just right.
    Assuming that I want to cook a turkey, they list the cooking time as
    between 7-8 hours I believe for a 12 lb turkey.  How do I get a good
    hot fire to burn that long ?  This is a charcoal burning grill.  I used
    Kingsford brand charcoal, and filled the charcoal pan to the top. When
    I lit it, I tried to mainly light the center so that the coals would 
    slowly burn from the center outwards.  The maximum seems to be about
    4 hours of efficient heat before the temperature rapidly starts to
    drop.  Should I be adding more charcoal at this point ?  Is there a
    better brand of charcoal that burns longer, like Royal Oak or
    something ?   As you can see, I am a novice at this, so any pointers
    would be _greatly_ appreciated (and recipes too :^).
    
    Thanks in advance, Larry

    I think that the key issue is getting a good draft through the pile of
    charcoal.  If you have vents in the bottom and top of the grill, make
    sure they are open enough to get the heat up.
    
    This is no problem with my Weber Kettle, but if your grill is
    specifically designed as a smoker, it may be set up to burn slowly and
    at reduced temperatues. If that is the case, you will probably never
    get it very hot.

    To keep your fire burning evenly, you should plan to add a little
    charcoal periodically. In my Weber, I add four to six briquettes every
    45 minutes.  At lower temperatures in your grill, the period will
    probably be correspondingly longer.  The idea is to get the replacement
    briquettes started well before heat output begins to drop off. When
    adding the briquettes, distrub the coals to knock off the coating of
    ash.

    You might try using lump charcoal rather than briquettes. It is much
    less dense and seems to burn hotter.  Of course, you will have to
    add charcoal more frequently.

    When you've got a smoker you have to realize that it's NOT a B-que
    grill - it's a smoker.  It's supposed to take a long time.  If you've
    ever had Kansas/Missouri/Oklahoma and even Texas or Southern
    *bar-b-que* it's done with a smoker.
    
    Using charcoal is a very big mistake.  Try buying, if you don't have
    an array of hickory, oak, etc wood, a package of wood chunks that are
    in different flavors (sperately that is).  The trick is to keep adding
    the wood in the smoker to keep it at a semi-even keel.  The wood may 
    make the food cook a little faster and it's gonna taste a whole lot
    better.  If you know what's actually in those coals you'd be amazed -
    oil, sawdust, fillers, coal, etc.  Nothing that resembles wood in the
    least.  You're food will be much more flavorful too.  The taste does
    not com from the sauce, it comes from the type of wood and how it's
    prepared.
    
    Try getting large pieces of wood, chopping it to usable pieces and add
    the wood like it were a wood stove (not exactly but then again I'm not
    there to show you).
    
    
    /gail

    
    Thanks for the responses so far ...
    
    I do understand that it's supposed to take longer, and I don't mind
    that.  This is the dilemma .. I roasted a pork roast which needs to
    be at 170 degrees in order to be completely cooked. However, after
    4 hours the temperature in the stove has dropped to 140 and the roast
    is only at 140.  Apparently I should be adding more coals in after
    a period of time to keep the fire burning hotter.  I like the idea of
    using all wood, and I was wondering about doing that vs using charcoal
    as the instructions specify.  
    
    I love it so far, and I just want to get the most/best use out of it.
    Thanks for the suggestions, keep em coming.
    - Larry

    I've put my gas grill together, fired it up, and have cooked my
    first meals on it.
    There's one little problem I have that may have a rather simple
    fix, but for the life of me, I can't figure it out.
    
    First, nothing about the level of the rocks, or the grills upon
    whic the food is placed, is adjustable.
    The gas jets have two positions....hi and low.
    
    The problem.....no matter how I cook...top open, or closed. Jets
    on hi or on low, pre-heated for 15 minutes or not....I have a huge
    conflagration caused by the dripping fat. 
    At present I have to stand over the job and be constantly alert.
    I use only half the grill, and when flames get high, I move the
    food to the other side of the grill, where I usually don't have
    the gas turned on. I let things cool down and start it all over
    again.
    
    Can anyone tell me how to (realistically) prevent the flaming? Or
    is there a better way to use the grill? Or maybe this is a feature
    provided with the cheaper models?
    
    
    					=-=-=-=-=-=g=-=-=-=-=-
    
    

    We have the same problem.  We mostly just don't try to grill really
    fatty things (works fine grilling fish, for example) or things with
    oily marinades.  If we get flares, we either blow them out, or pour
    water on them (watch out if you do this, but it works OK when what is
    burning is fat that dripped on the lava rocks inside the thing).  I
    had the same problem with charcoal grills, too.  I'd probably find the
    thing a lot more annoying to use if my family tended to eat things like
    steaks.  It works OK for things we normally eat, so long as someone
    keeps an eye on it (it is on the deck, right outside the kitchen door),
    and is a good deal easier to clean than the broiler in the gas oven, as
    well as not heating up the kitchen.

    Hi - I usually put down some aluminum foil for items like sausage,
    ribs or other meats with fat.  This doesn't seem to take away from
    the flavor on a gas grill.  Steak with a rim of fat should just
    be watched closely.  A spray bottle near at hand filled with water 
    helps for flare ups.                                    
    
    Also, pre-cooking will help reduce the fat content, but I prefer
    the aluminum.
    
    Flo

    
    
    	Rep .0
    
      I would suggest you use the two burner method of cooking. For fatty
     foods like chicken, pork chops, ... here's what I do. First light
     both burners and let the BBQ heat up for 10-15 minutes. Then turn off
     one side and place the food on that side. Leave the other burner on
     high. Close the BBQ and cook until the food is done or about ten 
     minutes before turn the burner down to low and move the food over
     to that side to crisp it. This way you have already cooked off the
     fat in the food and shouldn't have the flare up problem. Also with this
     method you can add some wood chips or herb branches to the hot side
     to help flavour your food.
    
      As far as fish and other things go I just stand there and pay
    attention there is no way around it. I found a great stainless steel
    screen to cook seafood on. Since it is a very tight mesh the flare up
    isn't that great. I bought it at my local True Value Hardware store after
    many months of looking in Cookware shops.
    
     -mike
    

 I would guess that alot of your problem is caused by the fact that you have
so little control over the amount of gas coming out of the butterfly. You
would seem to be relegated to using a workaround such as those described 
previously. Are you sure that you don't have a continuous sweep control knob
with only two "click" positions? You really ought to be able to continuously
turn the gas on or off...

 One mistake that frequently occurs is that people tend to cook things on too
high a temperature. This leads to the conflagration problem previously 
described. And don't be afraid to spend a considerable amount of time tending
the grill; since food can easily become charcoal, you can't afford to have
flames engulfing your food for long. :-)

 Try turning the heat down, move your food away from the flames when they occur,
and use the blow out or water pistol method to douse the flames. PS- make sure
you burn off the fat from the previous meals before putting new food on the 
grill; about 10 minutes on high should suffice.

 The Doctah

    
    I just bought a smoker last week myself, and smoked a ham and some
    chicken breasts last weekend. My smoker is made by Brinkman (FWIW)
    
    The instructions I received indicate that charcoal should be used, and
    wood chunks added for smoke flavor. The wood chunks should be soaked in
    water for about 1/2 hour so they smoke, not burst into flames.
    
    If you used just wood, how would you control the flame up? 
    
    I'm told that hardwood charcoal is available, and that it burns
    slightly hotter, and longer that the standard charcoal, but I haven't
    found any to try yet.
    
    Ray 

    
    re: .4
    
    Ray,
    
    My instructions state the same thing.  The reason for soaking the wood
    chips is primarily so that they produce smoke by smoldering for a
    period rather than flaming up as you mentioned.  I don't think the
    flaming up is really an issue since the water pan separates the 
    fire from the food.  I think the suggestion is to just use wood
    as the main source of heat in which case you would get a constant
    source of smoke and it would burn similar to a charcoal fire.
    
    Of course, this is all conjecture on my part, has anyone really
    tried using a smoker using strictly wood as the fuel ?  I'm just
    wondering if the flavor would then be too smoky.
    
    Larry
    
    

    re: .2 Thanks, mike, that's a good idea.
    re: .1 Charlotte, I'm still into the red meat, but less than before.
    
    re: .* Thanks for the responses. I thought I might have missed
    something. 
    This grill is a real cheapo....$80 at The Fair. There's so little
    difference between HI and LOW that I wonder why I even bother. 
    But I DO burn the old fat off. I let it warm until it stops smoking
    each time I crank it up.
    I'll try mike's idea this weekend. 
    
    have a nice one, everyone!!!
    
    		=-=-=-=-=-=gary=-=-=-=-=-=

I use  charcoal and wood chips, and the flavor is about as good as you'd get
with straight wood.  I usually add charcoal about once every 2 or 3 hours to
keep it hot enough.

- Brad

Since I usually have a cold beer when cooking outside in the summertime, I will 
extinuish the flames with the brew. This comes in very handy when you are 
running a cookout for alot of people and doing "volume" cooking.

Don't laugh. It works!!!


Chuck

    That's the only way I've ever done it!!  We use (back home) large
    pieces of wood, and yes, soaked in water (forgot about that).  The
    flavor is not supposed to come from the sauce that's added on at the
    end (or marinate) but from the type of wood that you use.  I can tell
    you that we use, in parts of Texas, alot more vinegar than, let's say
    the Plains states where the best bar-b-que sauce originated.  And much
    more spicey too!
    
    I've NEVER recommended coal ... it isn't the best for the ozone either.
    Like I said, it's made of sawdust, coal and oil (not veggie either).  
    To me it taste funny, sort of like an oily/coal flavor - I can't explain 
    it.  Since I live in an area where gas grills are only permitted I just
    don't bother.  Maybe a good reason to move!
    
    If you can find that 'old time' charcoal that's all wood per-burned you
    could go with that.  
    
    
    /gail

    
    I reread the instructions for my smoker over the weekend, and there 
    is a blurb in fine print that states -
    
    Do not use self lighting charcoal since the flame may seriously
    damage the smoker finish or may burn up the smoker.
    
    .. since an all wood fire would burn very hot and also cause a lot
    of flame, I would have to assume that it wouldn't be a wise thing to
    do in a commercial smoker.  
    
    Lar

Coal???!!! Absolutely not!!!!  Unless you want polluted food.

Charcoal briquettes are not all that bad, especially the better quality ones
like Kingsford.  The best is charcoal made from preburned wood pieces, as a 
previous reply stated.  Burning characteristics of each is about the same, but
the briquettes are made to light easier.

As far as the oily flavor is concerned, most of that comes from 2 sources.  
First, dousing the charcoal with too much starter fluid.  Second, using quick
light or easy light briquettes, which are impregnated with starting stuff.
Letting the coals get white hot before adding food helps as this burns off
most of the petroleum products.  Using a chimney for starting is the best 
solution.  

A chimney is a can with a few holes in the sides around the bottom, and a 
grate just above the holes.  You put the coals in the top, and 1 sheet of
newspaper in the bottom.  Set it in the cooker, and light the paper.  When 
the top coals start to get white, dump the coals into place and wait until all
of the coals are white. 

You can make your own from a coffee can, or you can buy one at many hardware
stores.  I found one at the Crate & Barrel Warehouse Store some years back.  It
was selling for $5, so I bought it (I've seen them in the catalog for $20-30...
a real rip off!).  This has lasted a while, and it's still going strong, 
compared to the electric starters I used to use (blew away about 1 per year).
Since eliminating starter fluid fron my diet, I can taste a fluid started fire
on the first bite.

    One of the problems I see is that you  maybe preheating the grill
    for to long. If you preheat it inorder to burn off fat, turn it
    to low and leave the cover open for a few minutes before you start
    cooking. Also, don't use just one burner with all the meat concentrated
    over one spot. Spread the meat out as much as possible.
    
    If your barbequeing Italian sausages, split them open with a knife
    lengthwise before cooking. This will insure that the fat drips in
    a smaller amount rather than in large spurts, which results in an
    uncontrollable flair up.
    
    Jim

    I did some experimenting this past wekend with the suggestions here,
    and with some ideas of my own. 
    When I bought the grill, I got an extra bag of coals, thinking "the
    more, the better!". The density of coals was impressive, to say
    the least.                  
    
    However, I began to think about it and got a different perspective...
    By eliminating 2/3 of the coals, I introduced lots of "white space"
    below the food, which in turn seemed to allow the fat to drip all
    the way through the cooker. Flare-ups occurred, but were of the
    "quick flash" kind, and not the "3 alarm fire" kind.                 
    
    I was cooking only a couple hamburgers, so I haven't put the concept
    to a real stiff test as yet.

I have used both the Brinkmann charcoal smoker and a Coleman LP smoker. 

My first smoker was a brinkmann double decker model.  It was an earlier model
without the fire access door.  It was kind of a pain to check the fire when
cooking things that took a long time.  You had to lift the barrel which held
two fully loaded grates.  I think the newer model with the access door would
be much better.

As far as starting the fire, I used the following process.  I would fill the 
charcoal pan with the right amount of charcoal depending on how long the 
smoking process was supposed to take.  I would then pour a small starter fluid
in the center of the pan.  This way the fire would burn from the center out and
last longer (at least in theory).  One thing I noticed using this method was 
that either the temperature gauge was off or the fire was not burning as hot as
I would have liked.  I never had a problem with overcooking any thing that I 
tried and the food was great.

I smoked a variety of thing like Ribs (both Beef and Pork), chicken (whole and
cut-up), whole turkeys, fish, roasts, and anything else I could think of.

I moved and had to leave this smoker behind.  My next smoker was the Coleman
Smoking Machine (or something like that).  It uses LP, but the arrangement 
of cooking grates and water pan were much the same as the Brinkmann.

I have used this for about three years now.  After the First fiasco, (the
LP model cooks much hotter on HIGH than the charcoal model ever did) I have
had a great deal of success with the gas model.  I have cooked about everything
with the Coleman as with the Brinkmann once I learned lower the heat 
significantly.  LP is more convient than charcoal, and the taste is not much 
different.

			Regards,
				Bill Shively

    I hate to be a party pooper, but my husband and I bought our first
    gas grill and had the exact same problem. NO matter WHAT we cooked
    or on what temperature, it burned. WE decided that the problem was
    poor grill design in that the racks were too d*mn close to the coals.
    We found the perfect solution. We took it back to Lechmere and they
    were great about taking it back. They even told us to keep the gas
    canister. I have to admit that I felt pretty FOOLISH standing in
    the returns line with this fully assembled grill..!
    
    	We then forked over $200 to buy a decent one, and the
    problem went away. Of course, my husband still burns things, but
    this time its the cook and not the grill! I guess its true that
    you get what you pay for... and I was tired of putting out fires
    and eating charred food.
    
    Kathy

I but $19 gas grills.  Usually sunbeam or charbroil or some such name.  I watch
for the sales.  I also have an adaptor that lets me use a 20lb tank (the 
tank and adaptor costs more than the grill).  Since I use these things year 
round, they usually self destruct in a few years.  I like them because they are 
small and portable.  I've had brands that had the grill very close to the coals
as well as a reasonable distance, and I've never had any food burn due to the
grill itself.  You do have to learn how to use the cover as a flame extinguisher
though (I tend to cook covered all the time).  

					-JP

ps when I have a party and need volume, my 10 yr old charcoal burning webber
   is still going strong

    re. -1
>    You do have to learn how to use the cover as a flame extinguisher
>though (I tend to cook covered all the time).  
               
Using the cover on my el-cheapo (not $19, but $59) just makes the problem
    worse. I thought that would prevent the raging fire, but after a
    few experiments, I decided that discretion is the better part of
    valor. Not even turning off the gas helped, as the fire was raging
    so it became a being unto itself.
    No, I have solved the problem with el-cheapo by eliminating 3/4
    of the lava rocks. Now I only have short blazes that don't threaten
    to take out the house.                                     
                                                                
    					=-=-=-=-=-gary=-=-=-=-=

    
    I have some friends who keep a plastic plant-spray bottle filled with
    water right next to their grill.  They set it on "stream," not "spray,"
    and use it to put out flare-ups.  I don't eat meat, so don't run into
    this problem much with fish.
    

        I have been looking at the Brinkmann Smokers at Service Merch.
    and was wondering if this brand is a decent one or is there another
    one that is better or as good for the money. They have two Brinkmanns
    at service. One is the lighter one with the fire access door and the 
    other one is a H. duty one without the door. Was is the advantage of
    one over the other. What kind of time frame am I looking at to 
    smoke a 20 lb. turkey. Have any of you ever smoked a Purdue roaster
    with the internal therm. inside to let you know when it is done.   

    	I have the Brinkmann from SM and found it to work fine for
    	the things I smoke. I like cornish game hens smoked, I've also
    	done chicken thighs. 
    
    	I have the model with the dual racks and and accesss door. I find 
    	the access door handy for adding water and charcoal.

           Well I went last night to service Merch. and bought myself the 
    Brinkmann Smoker. I purchased the on with the access door and double
    grills. There was a small recipe and instruction book with it. It
    was supposed to have come with a box of hickory chunks but there was
    any with it. It was on sale for $34.95. If I was to smoke just one item
    which grill should I use , the top or bottom, does it depend on what
    type of food I am cooking? 

       
    
            My smoker doesn't have a temp gauge but instead it has a 
    warm- ideal- hot type gauge. I tried to keep it right in the middle
    of the ideal range. I think that if you was to burn more more than
    the recommended 1-2 chunks (in my instruction book) than you could 
    get it into the hotter end of the range.
    

    The Pecan chips which are really just broken pieces of pecan shells
    add a nice mellow flavor to poultry.  If you like pecans, save them
    shells for your smoker :^).  Harrington's of Vermont which sells smoked
    hams, turkeys, etc. claim to use maple wood and corncobs to smoke all
    of their meats.  I haven't tried using the corncobs yet but since I
    just bought some corn today, I'm going to save the cobs and throw a 
    couple in with the fire next time.  Probably no need to dry them out
    since you'll get more smoke if they're still a bit damp.  If you have
    some leftover smoked poultry, try the soup recipe I posted in note
    737.14
    
    I always smoke extra poultry now just so I _know_ I'll have enough
    left over to make some of this soup.  It's become a favorite of my
    family.
    
    Larry

I remember seeing a recipe a while back for a tomato sauce that started by 
smoking the tomatoes.  I think they made a pasta sauce out of it, but it could
be the start of a great bbq sauce, too.

The green sucker shotts from apple trees make for great flavor, too.  Also,
if you can find a shag bark hickory, peel of a couple of pieces of bark (not
more than one or two per tree).  These yield a very intense hickory flavor.

    Here's the address for the US Stove company ...
    
    United States Stove Company
    P.O. Box 5349
    Chattanooga, Tennessee 37406
    
    Phone: (615)698-3435
    
    FAX: 615-622-8040
    
    - Larry

           last weekend I used my smoker for the second time. I smoked two
    7 1/2lbs. turkey breast, hotel style.( whole breast with wings attached)
    They were Shady Brook brand with internal term. in them. The therm.
    popped up in about 5 hours which I thought was to soon so I left them
    on for another two hours. They were veery good and almost had a ham
    taste. Next thing will be a pork loin. For the turkeys I put water,
    beer, sliced apple, cloves, and other spices in the water pan. I only
    wished I bought one a long time ago.

           I hope to smoke a whole turkey for Thanksgiving which I havn't
    done before. Could someone tell me about how long it will take for a 
    20-22 lb. turkey that is stuffed. I got a feeling that I will be
    getting up real early to get started if we are going to be eating 
    around 3:00pm.

    
    Hi Mike,
    
     Are you using charcoal or gas ?  With my charcoal smoker, the booklet
    warns that in colder temperatures, the heat doesn't get high enough to
    effectively cook the turkey.  If colder temps are not a problem, I 
    would _guess_ maybe 12 hours or so to cook a 20 lb bird.  I smoked a
    13 lb turkey over the summer and it took about 7-8 hours.  You could 
    always smoke it for several hours and then stick it in the oven to
    finish cooking.  I've done this with chicken and it works great. Use
    a meat thermometer inserted in the breast to determine whether the
    bird is done or not.
    
    Larry

         I will be using charcoal. Here in Maine the temps lately have
    been rather cold (20-30's) It is supposed to warm up later in the week
    Maybe I will start it around mid-night as probaly my brother-in-law
    from Calf. will be here in the partying mood. Just hope we don't miss
    dinner after all that work.

    
    In light of the fact you live in Maine,  I would stick a meat
    thermometer in the turkey and start it around midnight. If the
    meat isn't up to temp a couple of hours or so before you need to
    serve it, pop it in the oven to finish cooking.  By then you've 
    already achieved a nice smokey flavor which won't be lost in
    the transition.  
    
    Regards, Larry

    A shortcut method to smoked turkey when you don't have 12 hrs. to work
    with the Charcoal Smoker. 
    
    I've found a somewhat simplified way to achieve that delectable smokey
    flavor...I cook my turkey in the oven until done minus 30-45 min. of
    the recommended cooking time and then I place the Turkey in the smoker
    and add the "CHIPS"(Flavor your choice) to the coals ...the more SMOKE
    flavoring desired the longer you leave it on the chips..I've tried
    varying the time on the chips and found for a light smoked flavor 1
    hour of smoking for an 18-20# will do...stronger smoke
    flavor=longer...also this method colors the turkey a nice dark brown
    which adds to the visual palate.... 

    My valentine's present was a smoker - I asked for it.  Can't wait to
    try it.  I'll be calling the US Stove Company for some wood chips and
    hunting throughout the stores for charcoal.  The manufacturer included
    two pieces of hickory in the package.  If I find charcoal, I'll try a
    roaster this weekend.
    
    I don't believe mine has the access doors although it does have doors
    but they are located in the middle of the smoker.  Maybe they are just
    for adding draft?? or water???  I'll check it out more this weekend.
    
    One more wonderful toy!!!!
    
    Flo

             I took advantage of the spring like temps. yesterday and
    smoked two turkey breast. I wasn't able to get the heat where I would
    had liked to but after 8 hrs they seemed to be done. The internal
    term. popped out at around 6 1/2 hrs. so that was a indication that
    they must of been cooked alright. I think the in reply .17 they had 
    a good idea of drilling extra holes in the fire pan to get the fire
    to burn hotter when outside temps aren't real warm. I line my fire
    pan with heavy duty tin foil to help prolong its life so during the
    summer months when the outside temps. are hot I just won't punch out
    the foil on the extra holes.
    
    

    I also took advantage of the weather a few weeks back and did a
    boneless pork loin and some chicken pieces. My first attempt in my new
    smoker.  I don't remember how long I cooked the meats, but it had to be
    a good five plus hours.  Towards the end, I could turn the chicken
    pieces over with my hands - they were not very hot.   I judged that the
    meats were done as the pork was very tender and also moist from the
    water pan and the chicken breast rib cage bones could be bent.  
    
    This would make me think that the meats do not have to reach the
    temperataures as noted on meat thermometers because I don't think it
    did.  OR maybe it did early on and then cooled down?????  
    
     Anyone agree or disagree?
    
       Flo

    
    Flo,
    
     That's a good question, and I've been wondering the same thing.
    The meat certainly seems cooked despite the fact that a meat
    thermometer won't register a high enough temperature at any point
    during the cooking process (my experience).
    
    - Larry

>    The meat certainly seems cooked despite the fact that a meat
>    thermometer won't register a high enough temperature at any point
>    during the cooking process (my experience).

Not necessarily. For instance, smoked salmon is not considered COOKED.
please be especially careful of poultry that does not get to a high enough 
temperature to kill the bacterial that builds up during mechanical plucking
and evisceration.....it can be very, very bad - older adults and small
children are especially prone to suffer ugly bouts of food poisoning from
this.  If you have any doubt that the meat is reaching a high enough
temperature, I would strongly suggest you "finish" your meat in a standard
oven to bring it to a high enough temperature.  Of course, once it is
cooked, immediately store it properly...either vacuum packed or in the
refrigerator or freezer.

         I am going to smoke a pork tenderloin for Easter this coming
    weekend. The loins that I have seen are about 2 1/2' long and about 3"
    diameter. Does anyone have or know of a good marinade or glaze that
    would be good for this.

    	I made pork tenderloins in my stove-top smoker recently and served
    them with a honey dijon sauce. I don't remember the specifics of the
    sauce but can dig it up if you're interested. By the way, pork
    tenderloins smoked with hickory were delicious.

re .34

30" long and 3" in diameter???

Are you talking about pork LOIN or BEEF TENDERLOIN???

The PORK TENDERLOINS we get around here are about 12-18" long and less than 2"
in diameter.

I made a couplle smoke on a Weber once.  Heavy hickory smoke, slow fire, 
no marinade.  When done, I used a touch of teriyaki sauce (honey-ginger-soy mix).
They came out superb!

  Rep .34

  Here's two marinades for your tenderloins,

	1 8oz. can of frozen orange juice concentrate
	1/4 C dry sherry
	2 Tbsp of soy sauce
	 garlic powder to taste
	2 Tsps Sichaun peppercorns

	Take the peppercorns and saute them in a small frying pan for about 2 min.
	Then grind them in a mortar or whatever you have. Mix the oj, sherry, soy
	sauce, peppercorns, and garlic and marinate the meat overnight. I would
	guess you would need about 3 hours in a smoker for pork tenderloins. 

	
	1 Cup honey
	1/4 Cup dry sherry
	the juice of two lemons
	garlic powder and crushed red pepper to taste

	Mix all of the above and marinate the meat overnight.


  Rep .a few back about smoker temperatures.

  I just did a large roaster chicken in my smoker this past weekend and the the little
 popup thingie worked just fine. I think the meat really reaches the correct internal
 temperature at least for me. I have a gas model Brinkman which is definitely hotter
 than my friend's charcoal model Brinkman. The gas model has a much better control over
 the heat.


	-mike

		Green Peppercorn Sauce for Pork Tenderloins

1 lg egg yolk
2 Tbs lemon juice
2 Tbs Dijon mustard
1/2 tsp salt (I used less)
1/4 cup extra virgin olive oil
1/2 cup heavy cream
2 Tbs green peppercorns

	Combine the egg yolk, lemon jice, Dijon mustard, and salt in a blender
or food processor. While mixing, add olive oil and the cream in a steady stream
until smooth. Add peppercorns and pulse 1 or 2 times only. Refrigerate until
ready to use, but serve sauce at room temperature.

P.S. - When I mentioned honey-dijon sauce, I was thinking of something else.
	This was the recipe I had for smoked pork tenderloin sauce.

              Tried fish for the first time this past weekend and I think
    they came out good. I put the salmon and mackerel in a salt and suger 
    brine for three hours and then air dried them for 2 hours and smoked
    for 2 hours. Of course the salmon tasted better but the mackerel was
    very good to. I have a 7lb. lake trout I am going to do next.

             I own a charcoal version and my next one is going to be 
    either electric or gas. This summer I have used over 200 lbs. of
    charcoal so cost is on of the reasons. The main reason would be temp.
    control with gas or electric is a lot better.

    Can we start this note again. Please?  
    I am curious as to what people are doing in July 1992 with a smoker.
    
    I also am VERY interested as to why things get soaked in salted water.
    
    Thanks
    
    

             The salt water for fish is so it gets cured for prevention of
    spoilage during the low temp and long period of time of smoking. The 
    temps in the type of smoker I have (Brinkman) are higher than a real
    smoker so I only cure fish and not any of ther meats that I do. I have
    been requested to smoke some salmon this Saturday by some people who
    are coming over for dinner. 

    I just had a salmon from a friend's smoker.  I marinated it in
    olive oil, lemon and garlic for a couple of days - NO salt.  He cooked
    it for 4 hours, partially in foil.  It was not overdone, salmon should
    be medium like a steak, and it was moist and SUPERB!  Made me want to buy a
    smoker but why should I when I can always show up for dinner at his
    house.
    
    I suppose the marinade did what last reply said the salt does.  
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

�    I suppose the marinade did what last reply said the salt does.  
    
    Yes, the acid in the lemon cures the fish.  This principal is used when
    preparing ceviche.

    I have a  Weber Charcoal grill, does anyone know where I can buy the
    special attachments -- specifically the Smoker?
    
    Thanks,
    Julie
    

I've never heard of a smoker attachment for Weber.  Can you tell us a bit 
more about it?  What's it look like, how's it function, etc.


			-JP

    Well I called Weber's 800 number and they no longer have this
    attachment.  She is sending a listing of attachments they do offer and
    directions of how to get that "smokehouse" flavor.  As soon as I get it
    I'll post it.  My cookbook doesn't have a P/N on this attachment, if
    it did the Rep might have been able to research it a little for me. 
    I've had my Weber for about 15 years, the rep told me she's been there for
    a long time (3 years) and only knows of the Smoker Attachment for the
    Genesis Gas Grill.
    
    Julie
    

    I frequently use my gas grill as a smoker.  I soak woodchips in water
    for about a � hour, place them on a tray made from foil, and put this
    right on top of the lava rocks over one of the burners (I have a 2
    burner set up).  I then put a pan of water on top of the grill over the
    chips. This side of the grill gets lit.  When the chips start smoking I
    put the meat on the unlit side of the grill, close the lid, and wait
    until it's done, checking every once in a while to make sure there are
    still enough wood chips and water.  I have also simply cooked the meat
    directly over the smouldering wood.  I suspect you can employ similar
    techiniques with your Webber.  Since it is a charcoal grill and you are
    producing ash anyway, you can put the wood chips directly on top of the
    charcoal.

On my Weber charcoal grill, I use the charcoal rails and drip pan to roast meats
all the time.  When I want to add smoky flavor, I toss soaked wood chips on the
coals the same way you add more coals, thru the handle holes.  I just thought 
they had some new fangled attachment that I had not yet heard of (or bought).

Home Depot (or is it HQ? it's the one just north of Pheasant Lane) in Nashua has
the cheapest prices I've seen for Wber parts, by the way.

For wood, I use commercial hickory or mesquite chips, or apple branches from a
local orchard, or bark strips from a shag bark hickory (found by the side of
the road, makes a wicked strong smoky flavor that I love, and Lisa finds too 
strong).

					-JP

    Has anyone tried one of those charcoal starter devices?  I tried the
    version in "The Frugal Gourmet Cooks American":
    
    	Take a 1 gal. can, and using a "churchkey" type can opener punch
    a ring of holes into the side of the can at the bottom and then also
    on the bottom itself. Wad up some paper in to bottom, fill up the can
    with coals and lite the paper. 
    
    I tried this but after 45 minutes only half of the coals were ignited.
    Did I do something wrong or do these gadgets just don't work?
    
    Regards,
    
    Scott
     

I've got a commercial variety.  I've seen it on sale for around $20, but I got 
this at the Crate&Barrel Warehouse store in Cambridge for $5.  Best investment 
I've ever made.  It starts about 1/2 a Webersworth in about 15 minutes.  

Sounds like there is not enough air intake holes in yours.

more discussion in the CONSUMER notesfile, note 2216

    
    I just picked up a Brinkman charcoal smoker at HQ (in Mass).  Question
    about wood... I noticed that someone mentioned using the "suckers" or
    "shoots" from apple trees...does that mean that you can use "green"
    wood in a smoker?
    
    Also, how about other fruit trees?  Pear, peach, cherry -- how does
    that work?  My fruit trees could stand a bit of pruning for a good
    cause.
    
    Thanks,
    Cheryl

	Rep .80

	I use green wood in my gas Brinkman all the time. I just wrap
	the wood in aluminum foil and punch a few holes in it and then
	toss the package on the coals.

>>>
   Also, how about other fruit trees?  Pear, peach, cherry -- how does
    that work?  My fruit trees could stand a bit of pruning for a good
    cause.
>>>

	They would all work quite nicely. I even use the clipping off 
	my grape vines.

	-mike

    Yup.  In fact, when you have dry wood, you have to soak it to get the
    water back into it!

    Can someone recommend a grill to me?  I finally have a place with a
    deck and I've never grilled and nothing nothing about it.
    
    I want a gas grill - usually it's just me and one or two friends so I
    don't need a huge one.  Is there any benefit to the ones with a gas
    burner on the side?  (It's not that far from my kitchen to my deck -
    figured it I needed to boil or fry something I'd do i there.)
    
    I see that Sunbeam is the cheapest - what i the real difference between
    something expensive like a CharBroil and cheap like Sunbeam?
    
    How many BTU's and square inch cooking surface would I need for, say,
    four burgers and some grilled veggies?  I'd like to spend less than
    $200 (preferably much less) - what should I look for?
    
    Thanks,
    D!

    Hq has some Sunbeam (I think that is the brand name) on sale in the $89
    and up range.  You can get a decent one for $120 - $150.  I think the
    more gadets on the grill, the more things that can break.
    

    
    I have a gas grill with the burner on the side (have had it about 2
    years) and I have never used the side burner. The brand I have is a
    Thermos which I would not recommend.

      The problems I have had:

       - I have the rotisserie and the handle has broken 2 times. I called
         Thermos and they replaced it free of charge both times however one
         time the handle I was sent wouldn't fit. But they did respond.

       - My biggest complaint is that within a year I had to start turning
         the gas off at the tank itself instead of just using the valves on the
         grill. A friend of mine had the same problem. The grill has always
         been kept in a covered area.

       - The fuel gauge has never worked correctly.

       - There is some kind of coating on the window which has completely
         flaked off. Hopefully it is not to toxic as I am sure some has
         gotten in my food.

    Pick up a copy of the cookbook "The Thrill Of The Grill", written by
    Chris Schlesinger, from the East Coast Grille and the Blue Room.  It
    has lots of great recipes, and enough information about grills to help
    you select one.  Personally, I have a Weber kettle grill (charcoal) for
    serious cooking, and a small $20 sunbeam gas grill hooked up to an 18#
    gas canister for quick dinners.
    
    			-JP
    
    

We're on about our fifth gas grill. Each one has been a bit bigger.
Presently, we have a Sunbeam, which replaced a Sunbeam (didn't learn).
This one has a side burner, which I've used once in two years. 

We grill out a lot (five times a week), and use it through the winter
(once a week). I've reconciled myself to using matches, because the
ignitors last a few months. I bought a pressure gauge, because the
built-in gauges last a few months. I'm now wrestling with the realization
that the grates and burners last two years, max, whether they're plain
steel or (expensive) porcelain, stainless steel, whatever.

Nothing much seems to affect the cast aluminum bases and covers. Good
stuff! You see lots of them in the dump.

We've had lava rock, briquettes, and now
steel-plate-that-replaces-lavarock. I'd rather have lava rock.

The coating that accumulates on the inside of the glass window is sort of
soot. I just brush it off a couple of times a year with the brass bristle
brush that I use to clean the grates.

Art

       >>             -< haven't found the perfect grill yet >-


	the Weber Genesis gas grill.  it can do no wrong.  8^)

    I've got a Sunbeam that I use a fair amount (4x/week) and can give a
    similar lukewarm recommendation. The ignitor stopped working the 2nd
    year, I've always used the tank on/off valve (else gas leaks out slowly)
    the grates and burners need periodic replacing, the accessory section
    is a joke, soot accumulation on the window, it was a bitch to assemble,
    etc., etc. I paid ~$250 at Lechmere some time ago for a largish model.
    Oh yes, the instructions say you should inspect and clean the Venturi
    tubes prior to EACH use. These tubes are located underneath the main
    box and are a pain to check out.
    
    On the other hand, it is pretty convenient to use. I can fire it up and
    be ready to cook in 10 minutes. Burgers come out really nice, marinaded
    chicken breasts are yummy, even shish kabob turns out superb. Much more
    efficient than waiting for charcoal, though I'll use charcoal on the
    weekends when we have time to plan.
    
    If I had to do it all over again I'd probably go with .88s endorsement
    of the Weber. Near as I can tell, Weber only does barbecue stuff.
    Sunbeam is just in it as a sideline.
    
      John

    I have an Arkla gas grill.  It gets used a lot in the summer when it is
    too hot to cook inside.  As far as I can tell, it is always a good idea
    to shut the gas off at the tank as well as at the burners.
    
    /Charlotte

    
    	Mine's a CHARBROL gas grill.  It's a medium sized one, has a front
    fold-down table and two side tables, all with redwood slats. (which
    have now all but rotted off)  I'll need to replace the slats VERY SOON!
    No side burner, as I normally put a basting sauce in a covered pat and
    place it on top of the top cover to keep it warm.  I've replaced the
    H-element once as well as the lava rock support grate.  The electric
    starter gave up the ghost within the first year, so I too just use a
    match placed in a side air vent to get it going.
    
    I've had it for about 7 or 8 years, and I can't complain.  I would
    really like to replace the top two grates with one of those ones that
    has the square holes in it, instead of the straight wire one it has
    now!  It has a habit of allowing some foods (like a mis-flipped burger)
    to fall through the slots onto the lava rocks.  Bummer!  I use it once
    or twice a week, when I have the urge.

 I've had a Structo grill for 8 years, and it's still going strong.
I have replaced the grates and the butterfly once.

 We use it quite often, at least 4 times a week. 

 One thing to check out when you go looking at grills is the type of
handles on the cover. You want there to be two handles, and they should 
feel sturdy. My parents' grill's chief fault is that the handles
are not well made and it can be a challenge to deal with the cover
when fully heated.

 The next things I'd check are the grates and the butterfly (where the 
flames come out.) The better coverage you have with the butterfly, the
more likely you'll have a reasonably uniform cooking surface. You don't
want to see a tiny butterfly in a large volume because you'll only get
heat in the middle of the grill.

 I like having a unit that has dual controls (right and left side).
That allows indirect cooking and gives you greater control over cooking
items with dissimilar heat requirements.

 If you think you'd like to cook things on the rotisserie, make sure your
unit is deep enough when you've got the lava rocks in it. Also look for a heat
shield for the power unit and get one with an electrical cord, not a battery
powered unit.

 Also very important is the valve. Make sure the valve feels good when
you turn it. The action should be smooth, with an audible click when it is all
the way off. If it's hard to turn, it will be hard to control the flame.

 Also- check the venturi tubes prior to use after a period of disuse.
Spiders crawl into the tubes and make webs and nests and such. This frequently
causes gas to come out of the tube when you try to use it. Take my word
for it; you don't want this to happen!!! I almost destroyed my parents'
house when I used their grill. The whole thing caught on fire. I got to it
when the hose leading from the gas tank was aflame. Fortunately, I managed to 
turn off the gas at a tank, but it cost me some arm hair and probably put
a few gray ones on my head. =:^)

 Oh, yes. It is good practice to turn the gas off at the tank after each use.
The valve at the tank is much more reliable than the valve on the grill.
I think most owner's manuals will tell you to do this. (It's even more important
where there are children around.)

 The Doctah

Ditto on the side handles for the cover. Our previous grills had side
handles. This Sunbeam has a handle that runs along the front length of
the top cover. What this means is, when you grab the handle and open the
lid, as the heat rushes out toward you it is cooking the underside of
your arm. We learned to grab this 2' long handle by the very end (while
wishing for a return of the side handles).

Front and side shelves are very handy. I regularly use my closed side
burner as a shelf.

About side burners again... I had wanted to use mine to saute onions and
peppers while burgers and sausages of various kinds sizzle on the grill.
AS it turns out, I can't turn the side burner down low enough to do a
slow, gentle saute. If it's turned way down, any stray breeze blows it
out. If it's high enough to fight breezes it's too high to just keep a
light saute going.

Art

    well based on my price range I've narrow it down to a Thermos or a
    Charbroil.  Based on the disrecommendation of Thermos in here, and the
    fact that I can't use "hardwood flavored ceramic briquets" in the
    Thermos, I was all set to buy the Char-broil.  However, I looked in
    consumer reportes at the last grillstudy they did in 1991, and the 7000
    series Char-broil was rated as poor on cooking fish and chicken,
    because the grate got far too hot to cook something so delicate.  The
    model they rated has been replaced but I don't know if there's been an
    improvement.  Does anyone in here have a 6000 or 7000 series Charbroil
    who would care to comment?
    
    The Webers, of course, were rated top - but having just bought a house,
    I can't afford (nor wouldcare to spend) $600 for a grill.
    
    thanks,
    D!

I have the Charbroil 9000... Absolutely love it.  Haven't had any problems
cooking chicken or fish.

The hardwood flavored briquets are a joke.  Get an iron smoke box from HQ,
approx. $9; and get some wood from a kitchen shop.  Avoid the CharBroil Hickory 
and Mesquite chips there're not very intense in flavor.


Bevan

    

    	Some further comments (negative) on the Thermos.... The coating on
    the window is definitely not just soot, It flakes off like pieces of
    plastic coating, like a film or something. I was a friends and he just
    bought a new grill 2 months ago and it was doing the same thing.

        One other thing I don't like about the Thermos is that even though
    the valves show a heating level from low to high to preheat there is
    VERY little difference at least on my unit. I have to keep a real close
    eye on my cooking because things burn very fast.
    

    We're really happy with our CharBroil 7000 Series. Just got it this
    year and use it 3-4 times a week. Fairly standard model, no side
    burners, hanging basket rather than shelf above main grill for cooking
    veggies-removing done stuff to keep warm. No windows, lots of table
    space on sides and front, fairly accurate temp. guage (low,med,high).
    My husband says he would like it to have more BTUs so he didn't have to
    use it on HIGH so much, but I like the ability to cook at lower temps
    and not brun things to a crisp on the outside and have it raw on the
    inside.
    
    Got it a Lechmere (NH) for about $170.
    
    Debbie
    

    This weekend I attacked our Eucalyptus tree. At 40+ feet it was
    threatening the house with severe damage, come the next big storm this
    winter, and drawing moisture out of the clay soil to compromise our
    foundations. The tree is a more acceptable 25' and virtually all the
    branches trimmed to about 2' from the trunk. I now have a huge pile of
    Eucalyptus branches, bushy leaves and bits of trunk (esssentially three
    quarters of a major evergreen tree) occupying my lawn.
    
    How good is Eucalyptus for the Barbeque? Both in terms of adding small
    chips to produce smoke or to use some of the larger branches/logs in
    place (or additional to) coals/briquettes. Will the oils in the wood
    encourage its use for the barbe or will the oile ruin the barbe?
    
    I have no idea what variety of Eucalyptus we have, it was planted by
    the builders. I do know its grown some 40 feet in six years and doesn't
    look like stopping; its a fairly bushy type tree i.e. it has branches 
    growing all the way up the trunk rather than just producing a canopy;
    it has the classic long, pointy, grey/dark green Eucalyptus leaves except
    where branches have been hacked back in which case you get the lighter
    coloured circular/kidney shaped leaves; the bark is peeling off in
    large, brown curled flakes; and it has a fragrance.
    
    Bearing in mind that the plan is to shred most of this immense pile for
    garden mulch, and to pile up the larger logs in the back of borders and
    beds to encourage wildlife, I thought I'd keep a few shards aside for
    the barbe.
    
    Angus

    
    
    Rep .98  Angus
    
    >>>How good is Eucalyptus for the Barbeque?
    
    
      I wouldn't use it in a smoker or bbq grille. The reason being it is 
    a very resinous tree like pine which doesn't do anything for your food
    or your equipment. You should only use hardwoods for smoking and
    bbq'ing.
    
    
    -mike
    

I'm not Australian, nor have I ever been there, but I agree with .-1.

Consider the heavy odor of eucalyptus. Would you want that on your food?

-Jack

    Eucalyptus oil is used medically as an expectorant.  I suggest
    you pass on using this wood for cooking.

Never noticed too much flavour picked up just by barbecueing.
Lob on a few snags (sausages) and see what you think. I would
actively avoid using it in a smoker though (not that there are
many of those in use in the UK or even here).

Cheers,
Simon

RE: .102

Point of nomenclature:

In the US, particularly the Southern US, "barbecue" has a very 
specific meaning.  It refers to meat slowly cooked by the indirect 
heat from a smokey hardwood fire.  It is more or less a process of 
dry smoking.  The entire intent is for the meat to pick up a smoky 
flavor from the wood.  Eucalyptus would be totally inappropriate in 
this context.

--PSW

    re. 102
    
    I also read last night that the fumes given off by using
    soft wood could be toxic.
    
    Noranne
    

Can anyone suggest where to buy hickory chips in the Maynard, MA area?  If
possible I'd like to find a bag that is larger than the ones sold in gourmet 
shops.

Thanks,
	Allen

Last time I was able to find a bog bag of smoking chips, it was at Spag's, and
it was mesquite (don't remember if they had hickory).  I've also seen big bags
of wood chips at the home depot in Nashua with the BBQ grilles.

I've used strip of bark from shag bark hickory with great results.  Shag bark
hickory trees have bark that looks like it's falling off.  If you pull gently
on the end of a piece, you get a long strip of bark.  I try not to take more
than one or two strips per large tree to avoid any damage to it.  The places
I've seen them, there are lots growing relatively near each other, so I could
gather quite a lot.  

Unlike wood chips, the bark pieces don't need soaking, and generate lots more
smoke.  So, use them sparingly.

			-JP

     
        Service Mecrhandise has both chips and chunks.

    Re .99 - .104
    
    Thanks for the advice, guys. No Eucalyptus for the barbeque. The large
    branches and bits of trunk have been cut up into logs for wildlife refuges
    around the garden, while the smaller branches will be put through the
    shredder for mulch.
    
    Angus

    I've seen hickory, mesquite, and applewood at the Safeways here in
    Colorado Springs.  Of course, that's a little far for you to travel,
    Angus.  Maybe someone could send you some seeds and you could grow your
    own wood.  :-)
    
    
    Steve

FYI -
   While at Costco yesterday I picked up a package of 24 cans of woodchips
for smoking in your grill. Steel cans which you puncture the top of and
place in the coals - the chips inside the can begin to smolder and release
smoke into your covered grill. There were about six different types in
the package for $12.95 - Cherry, Apple, Mesquite, Hickory, Oak (?) and
one other that I can't recall at the moment. The cans were about the size
of a 4-6 oz. cat food can. I have no idea how well they work yet. The
claim is that you can get 2-3 uses per can.
-Jack

    Ha! I've got you there, Steve. Squirreled away and used sparingly over
    the years, I have a large bag of Hickory chips I purchased from the US.
    Every year, on our mass barbeques (20-30 people + ravenously hungery   
    adolescents whose bottomless stomaches seem to have a gateway to some 
    parallel dimension) I solemnly measure out a large handful of the precious
    chips, dutifully soak them in water for an hour and then anoint the coals 
    with them; and every year the assembled masses ask me what I'm doing!
    
    BUT....the word about barbequeing has slowly gotten around, and a
    couple of years ago I noticed some imported bags of hickory chips in the
    shops. This year, for the first time that I've noticed, the big DIY
    shops and bigger stores have been carrying large packets (1Kg - 2.2
    lbs) of OWN brand hickory chips. Civilisation has arrived, and I need
    not hoard my special store of chips. In addition to hickory chips, I
    noticed one store (Homebase for my UK colleagues) carried OAK chips.
    Alas, my befuddled brain was not working on both cylinders the day I
    saw them, and I neglected to buy some to try out; that's four barbeques 
    wasted. Thus publically revealed and chastened, I shall rectify the    
    situation this holiday weekend, weather permitting that is.
    
    Angus

    Spurred on a little by this string of replies, I decided to pay
    attention when we shopped at Safeway last night. So, as we glided past
    the Barbeque shelves I stopped and had a closer look at what was there.
    Prominent amongst the usual paraphernalia of coals, charcoals and tongs,
    etc was Safeway own brand Hickory chips; large bags of the stuff.
    
    However, what caught my eye (alerted by .110) were some tins, which up
    to now I had ignored as being...well...tins of some sort. The tins in
    question were about the size of small cans of cat food, had a little
    hole in the top of them and they contained Hickory or Mesquite chips.
    
    My wife duely informed me that Mesquite produces a lovely smoke for the
    barbeque, and so we bought one to try out, hopefully, this weekend. Alas, 
    there were no large bags of Mesquite, and neither were there any other
    'flavours' of wood.
    
    Angus

Angus:

If you have fruit orchards/trees in the neighborhood, try using the sucker
shoots that get trimmed in the spring.  When recently cut, they need no soaking,
and make a wonderful smoke.

-jp

    I have been eyeing this branch, of a neighbours apple tree, which has
    half broken off (happened in the storms) and is resting atop the boundary
    fence. Perhaps I might wonder over and suggest I liberate it for them.
    
    Still, I keep your advice in mind as my wife's been thinking of having
    some apple and plum trees in the garden, and I've been thinking of
    having a fanned trained Morello cherry or two. Now I know what to do
    with the prunings.
    
    Angus

    
         Regarding the apple tree discussion...
    
    I have an old apple tree that's still living in the 
    far corner of my backyard.  Could I trim a branch or 
    two off for the desired effect.  How would I work this?
    
    Thanks,
    Kev
    

Yes. Cut and split it into 2"-3" chunks. You can use either the chunks or
split it further into chips. If the wood isn't still green, soak it for
half an hour before using. Just throw the chips/chunks on top of an
established charcoal fire in a closed grill/smoker.

I bought half a dozen pieces of apple about 5" in diameter which was being
sold as cordwood about 5 years ago. I paid $1 for all six pieces and
cut it down on my bandsaw. I still have better than half of it left
and I smoke about four times a year. (Smoking a 12 pound turkey takes
about a day.)

-Jack

    
    I guess there will be some use for that old apple
    tree after all.
    
    Thanks Jack,
    Kev 
    

One other thing, Kevin -

If you're not using a smoker, in a grill you need to "simulate the environment".
Don't put the food to be smoked directly over the coals (bank them) and put a
pan of liquid in the grill as well. The smoking process includes not only the
smoke, but smoke-dissolved-in-steam which drips/condenses back onto the food.

A typical smoker set up -

Food       #/#/#/#/#/#
Grate	---------------------
Steam      o   o    o    o
Pan     \    o   o      o   /
of       \-----------------/
Liquid    \_______________/

Chips       | - /  - \  - 
Coals    \00000000000000000/
          \000000000000000/
           ------   ------
                  ^
                  |
                 Air

By the way, do watch out for applewood, as Poison Ivy loves to grow up old apple
trees (at least it does here in New England).  Smoke from burning poison ivy can
cause severe irritation.

For example, many (MANY) years ago, when a neighbor burned a patch near his
farm/garden on the day mom hung my bedsheets out to dry, I and most of my family
nearly ended up in the hospital due to the smoke residue on the sheets.  

Imagine what would happen to your innards!!!

RE: .120

Actually, what would happen to your innards is exactly nothing.  
Mucous membranes don't react to poison ivy, only skin.

--PSW

    
    I've been thinking about smoking a turkey in my electric smoker
    but I'm afraid it wont get hot enough to kill off any bacteria.
    Any suggestions on what I should do? I also have apple, hickory
    and mesquite wood. Which one do you think would be best for turkey?
    
    walt

I know apple works great for turkey. I would assume hickory would be great
also. I've never used mesquite (yet), but I know others swear by it.

As far as the electric smoker is concerned, I would think that if you
do it on a hot, calm day, it might work OK. The electric smokers I've seen
don't have a prayer of producing the heat that a wood or gas fired
smoker does, so the issue is doing when the smoker isn't likely to be
cooled too quickly by the surrounding air. Any smoking I've done is
"hot smoking" which also cooks the meat. Cold smoking (as for lox) is
another method but I don't believe it's advisable for poultry. My
reference (listed in here somewhere) cautions that the meat must be cooked
sufficiently (i.e. to the proper temperature) either in the smoker or the
oven. Either the pop-up timer or meat thermometer is sufficient to test
for doneness.

-Jack

PS. The other "flavor" of the cans I mentioned in .110 is Pecan.

    
    re: .122 (LUDWIG::BING)
    
    I smoke turkeys, chickens, ribs etc all the time, your concern is a
    valid one.  However, I now regard the smoking process as more of a 
    flavoring, slow cooking process.  After 4, 5 hours on the smoker, I
    always finish the poultry or meat off in a preheated oven around 350
    degrees or so.  When the meat thermometer registers the proper temp,
    then it's ready to eat.  This has worked great for me; the food tastes
    delicious and is cooked to the proper temp.
    
    Mesquite is great on poultry as is hickory.  Apple wood is also good,
    and so isn't maple wood mixed with chunks of dried corn cobs.  My faves
    tend to be hickory and mesquite.  I Prefer the chunks of wood to the 
    chips since they don't burn up as quickly imo.  I've been buying bags
    of hickory/mesquite wood chunks up at WalMart in Hudson.  
    
    Larry
    

    
    Re: .120
    
    > By the way, do watch for applewood, as Poison Ivy loves to
      grow up old apple trees...
    
         I went out last night for a closer look at the old apple
    tree growing in my backyard.  I didn't see any poison ivy, but
    I did notice a mammoth grape vine complete with very many
    bunches of grapes nested atop the tree.  Any use here?
    
    Kev --
    

    Re .125: Any use? Why, of course - first you make some wine, and then
    you prune apple wood for the smoker. ;-)
    
    [Actually, the image of an aged (and, in my imagination, decoratively
    gnarled) apple tree with a fruit-laden grape vine climbing up it is one
    of the loveliest "fruitfulness" images that's come my way in some time;
    it almost has a Garden-of-Eden feel to it... Would make a nice
    creativity/productivity logo, too!]
    
    -b

    re: .125
    
     Those are probably a variety of vitis lambrusca and inappropriate for
    making wine you'd want to drink. :-) But they look nice, anyway.

Could the grape leaves be used for dolmas?

    
         Regarding the grape vine thing, has anyone ever
    caught a whiff of a grape vine burning?  Could it
    be chipped and used for smoking??
    
    Strange thought I guess,
    Kev --
                           

Re: .129 - My buddy and I used to smoke grapevine when we were kids. Not
the leaves, the vine. Had to suck until our eyeballs caved in, but we got
smoke through it. I guess that's proof that it isn't toxic. Doesn't
address the stupidity aspect, but that's a different question.   B^)


Art

Assuming you're in the US, the grapes are almost certainly Vitis 
labrusca, one of the native American grape varieties.  It makes 
horrible wine, but lovely jams and jellies and table grapes.

Vine wood is often used for smoking meats in California and other 
places where they have a lot of it.

The leaves of Vitis labrusca work just fine for dolmas.

--PSW

> Assuming you're in the US, the grapes are almost certainly Vitis 
> labrusca, one of the native American grape varieties.

Why this conclusion, Paul? E.G., if one were in the southern tier of
Western NYS, wouldn't palatable varieties be likely?

-Jack

    
    re .130
    
    I did that as a kid too! Looks like the after effects are that
    you end up working for Digital.
    
    Walt

RE: .132

Not growing in the wild.

--PSW

Oh - OK. But, when he said in his back yard, I assumed it was a cultivated
variety which had been purposely planted there, as opposed to growing
wild.

    The weather was good enough this bank holiday weekend to try out the
    Mesquite in a tin. The little darling worked very well, it was quite
    amusing to see this plume of smoke pouring out of the small hole. There
    was a definite 'different' taste and smell to the barbequed chicken we
    had, plus (as cook) I ended up catching quite a bit of the fragrance on
    my clothes. I would definitely recommend using one of these tins, but
    for the cost: �1.99 (that's +$3) for a small tin that would burn for
    about an hour. I think I'll try finding a large bag of misquite and
    put them in a tin myself. A ceramic tile with a hole it it should
    provide a good cover. The chips in a tin method does work very well.
    
    The experiment wasn't a total success. I put this down to the design of
    the barbeque. The coals and grill are too close to each other, with the
    result the meat gets burn't; even with a single layer of coals. The
    Mesquite flavour tended to be slightly swamped by the burn't flavours. 
    I think I need to either find a deeper barbeque or build one out of a 
    30/55 gallon drum; following the instructions detailed somewhere in this 
    conference. Until I can get around to this, I might put a small tin can
    of water in amongst the coals. This might stop the meat/potatoes/sweet
    corn from getting burned.
    
    I almost bought a bag of Oak chips from the local super store, when the
    old grey cell kicked in to inform me I was being a tad silly. There are
    some extensive woods behind our housing estate, containing the odd
    stand of Oak and Beech. All I need to is wait for the next storm to
    knock down a few branches, and I need take but one small branch to
    suffice for years.
    
    Angus

If you wrap the soaked wood chips in aluminum foil, and poke it with a couple of
skewers, you'll get the same effect as a tin.  On a charcoal fire, as opposed to
gas with rocks, I just sprinkle the chips on the coals directly just before I
put the grill on and the food on the grill.

Lately, I've been making salsa on the grill with mesquite.  I roast a couple of
dozen plum tomatoes whole unpeeled, until the skin spilts and chars slightly. 
Along with that, I add several largish garlic cloves unpeeled and skewered, an
onion with a big X cut into the top and another one 45 degrees off cut into the
bottom to help it cook, and lots of various chilis.  If I use Jalape�os, I
skewer them together to make it easier to turn.  Roast till everything has a
slight char, and the peppers are quite charred.  The peppers go into a bag to
cool, then are peeled and seeded, and minced in the food processor separately. 
The garlic is squeezed out of its skins, and minced along with the onion.  Then
the tomatoes are added, unpeeled.  At the end, I add a handful of minced
cilantro, salt to taste, and then add the minced chilis until just LESS than the
desired heat is attained.  After it sits a while, it may get a bit hotter, if
not, I add more chilis before serving.  

The best part of this is that I end up using hardly any salt, so I don't feel
guilty about the salted chips and margaritas!

    I've been looking at smokers for quite awhile, so this weekend i went
    out and picked one up. They were on their annual season closeouts, so I
    went for the biggest I could find locally which was a Brinkmann Smoke
    'N Pit professional. With a separate firebox and 750" of cooking space,
    I figured I won't run out of space soon. After assembling it most of
    the day Saturday, and then spending about 4 hours 'curing' it' until
    11:00 PM, I decided it would have to wait until Sunday to try it out. I
    made a beef tenderloin, using a dry rub with chipotle peppers, and
    smoked it with a mixture of hickory and apple. Smoked it for 2-1/2
    hours and checked the temp. It was just rare, the way we like it, so we
    took it off and made the salad, etc. First off, it was great, but it
    was cold by the time we sat down to eat it. Is the concensus here to
    keep it warm in the oven? The other question is regarding the wood
    chips. I only had access to chips right away, but I think I'll go with
    chunks, the reason being, I was adding chips every 20 minutes to keep
    the smoke going. I soaked them, wrapped them in foil, punched a few
    holes, and threw them on the hot coals. After about 5 minutes they
    really started smoking, after 15 minutes there was a blaze in the
    firebox, and at the 20 minute level, no smoke , no chips. Are chunks
    that much better, do you continually add more chips during the smoking
    process, or is it enough smoke for just the first 15-30 minutes?
    
    They were giving away samples of smoked catfish at the grocery store
    Saturday. It's on sale really cheap. We have people coming over to the
    house tonight. I think I'll try smoking some catfish for appetizers
    tonight.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Tom
    

I tend to use chunks to avoid having to reload so often.  Beyond that however,
there really isn't a lot of difference in the outcome.  Using chunks simply
makes it more convenient.

As far as the smoked meat getting cold before you had a chance to get to the
table, I've found that because the water smoking process is so slow, you can
easily afford to leave the meat in the smoker for up to an additional 1/2 hour
after you think its ready to go.  Once it tests to your satisfaction just close
up the air vents and go get the rest of the meal on the table.  It won't
overcook or dry out because of the low temperature and the moisture locked
inside the smoker.

Always nice to see someone else discovering the pleasure of slow smoke cookin'.

cheers,
dave

    I spent the whole weekend trying out the new smoker. Got chunks of
    hickory, and it worked great, especially taking the 7 hours to smoke
    that pork shoulder. I also read a number of books that I got at the
    library, and it talked a great deal about using oak. Since I get a full
    cord of oak every year to burn in the fireplace, and I still have about
    a half of face cord left, I used about 1/3 charcoal, 2/3 oak, and the
    1-2 chunks of hickory. I seemed to be able to control the temperature
    much better.
    
    Now I understand that this is not a commercial smoker by any means,
    however, I have to shut off the vents in the firebox, leave the chimney
    flue open about 1/3 to keep a constant temperature of 225 degrees.
    Smoke pours out around the lid of the cooking chamber, and there is
    quite a air space around the lid when it's shut. I was wondering if
    getting some kind of gasket or seal would work to help make the cooking
    chamber more air tight. I'm sure that's why I have to keep the firbox
    vent closed, because it's got all the air it needs from the loose
    fitting lid. I figured that I could get some kind of high temperature
    tolerant gasket and somehow attach it to the lid. The lid probably
    weighs 10-15 pounds and I think the weight alone would help seal it, if
    there was some kind of gasket around it. Any ideas of gaskets, seals,
    or the way I can attach one?
    
    Thanks.
    
    Regards,
    Tom
    

Tom,

I'm not sure what advice I can give on a seal...I haven't the problem you
mention.

I use a Weber Smoky Mountain and while I too have a lot of smoke that comes out
from various places (like the wood access door and the seal around the cover of
the cooking chamber) it doesn't seem to be a problem.  Most of my friends also
have a fair amount of leakage.

Your leakage may be excessive however.  If I close off my bottom vents it will
extinguish the coals within a half hour or less.  I have to leave my bottom and
top vents about 1/3 open to keep the coals going and to maintain a temperature
around 200 degrees or so.

I wish I could help but I'm not familiar enough with your particular style of
smoker to know what advice to give.  But if the meat is coming out right, after
approximately the right amount of time, I wouldn't spend a lot of cylces
worrying.  One of the nice things about smoking is that it is NOT a precise
science.  Being off by a few degrees and +/- a half hour here of there isn't a
big deal.

dave

    Dave,
    
    Thanks for the input. The Brinkmann Smoke 'N Pit is a barrel on it's
    side type with an offset firebox to one side. A lid is cut into the
    cooking chamber and also the firebox. I think I do have excessive
    leakage since I can't kill my fire at all. It just smolders until it
    uses up all the fuel. I think I have figured out how to seal it. If you
    look at those high efficiency sealed wood burning stoves that they sell
    nowadays, they have a fiber gasket on the door and sometines around
    some of the seams. I went over to the local fireplace store and talked
    with them about my problem. They said that the gasket is a fiberglass
    weave that should not pose any risk around food and that they have a
    high heat epoxy type cement that you use to attach it. The only thing
    they said to watch for is age. It seems that the gasket will start
    getting brittle with age and heat and will sort of splinter into little
    fiberglass hairs. You just need to replace the gaskets when you start
    noticing little 'hairs' on your food :) They only charged me $5 for
    about 10 feet of gasket and the cement, so it's not all that expensive
    to replace. Hopefully this will work.
    
    Regards,
    
    Tom
    

    	I've had a standard two-rack charcoal Brinkman for over ten years. 
    About the only thing I have to worry about over-cooking on mine is fish. 
    Other than that, I can put some thick steaks in and smoke them for 2 1/2 
    to 4 hours with no significant difference in how much they cook. Ditto
    with the comment about leaving meat in till everything else is ready.
    
    	Another thing they work good on is hamburgers and hot dogs for a
    large crowd. I don't use wood but do use the water pan. You can eat
    them anywhere from 1.5 - 3 hours after they've been in there. Once 
    it's loaded up, you get to spend time with your guests rather than
    cook. On mine, I have an upper and lower rack, so the burgers/thicker
    meats go on the top rack and the rest (i.e. hot dogs) on the lower rack.
    
    	One suggestion, if you're buying wood chunks/chips for yours,
    don't. Find someone with fruit or nut trees that prunes them and you 
    can usually get branches for free. There's nothing special about the
    wood they sell, other than the incredible mark-up on it. I'm lucky
    enough to have an uncle with lots of hickory trees on his property.
    When I need wood, he gives me a log and I cut it up into chunks.
    
    	Another tip, if you haven't already done it is spray the racks with
    Pam, or something similar. It definitely makes clean-up much easier.
    
    	It's up to you, but I think I'd worry more about fiberglass getting
    in my food than the leaks. From your reading, you probably know that
    smoke particles mix with steam from the water pan, rise up, and coat
    the meat. This it what "seals in" the juices and of course, adds the
    smokey flavor. It is also carcinogenic, as is any smoke particle. I 
    don't think you need or want smoke for the whole process. It won't be
    an issue with the chunks anyway. Soak them for a 1/2 hour and throw
    a couple in. You shouldn't need to add more.
    
    	Happy smoke'n......Ray

I tried some Kingsford Match-Light charcoal last Saturday. It's okay; it
does what it advertises. You can light it with a match.

However, I also experienced a downside. If you're using indirect heat and
your cooking time dictates that you must add charcoal part way through,
you should not _add_ Match-Light. If you do, your food will acquire the
taste of the stuff they add to the charcoal to make it match-lightable
(paraffin?). Instead, add conventional charcoal.

On Sunday I started the fire with Match-Light, but added conventional
Kingsford when it was time to add more briquettes to the side holders.

Since I don't like to store and tote multiple bags of charcoal, I
probably won't buy Match-Light again, just for this reason.

Art

Something I have been using for a number of years to start my coals is an 
aluminum tube about 18" high and 7-8" wide.  I can't remember what the 
product name is but I can describe it.  It has two chambers in it, divided by a 
grill, and is open on both ends.  You stuff newspaper in the bottom chamber 
and coals in the top chamber.  You light the newspaper and go have a cup of 
coffee.  In about a half an hour the coals are perfect.  You grab the tube by 
the wooden handle, turn it upside down to dump the coals into the grill and 
you're ready to go.

I love 'em and they can found these days in almost any hardware store.  
Cheap too...approximately $15.

cheers,
dave