Conference turris::cooks

 One thing you may want to do is ensure that your oven is properly calibrated.
This might affect cooking time.

 The next thing to do is make sure that you are getting the tip of the 
thermometer in the right part of the roast. If it's too close to the surface, or
next to a bone, or in fat it will not give you an accurate measure. It has to be
in the meat, preferably in the center of the thickest section. And it has to
be a decent meat thermometer.

 I generally have the opposite problem. I take the meat out when the thermometer
registers 10� below rare and it is usually closer to medium rare when it is
carved.

 Are you allowing the meat to set properly before carving it? And what do you
mean by raw? (Perhaps your tolerance for rare meat is not very high and you 
like things done medium or medium well.)

 The Doctah

    Raw to me is un cooked, or very, very rare.  I like my beef pink.
    
    I usually let it stand for 10-20 minutes (I forget the exact time).
    
    Will the thermometer read correctly instantly or do I have to wait a
    few minutes for it to stabalize?
    
    M

�        <<< Note 2909.2 by FRAGLE::PELUSO "PAINTS; color your corral" >>>

�    Will the thermometer read correctly instantly or do I have to wait a
�    few minutes for it to stabalize?
    
Are you cooking the meat with the thermometer in or putting in the 
thermometer after you take the meat out?  It really shouldn't make a 
difference since the temp shouldn't change; you would just need to wait 
until the temp gauge stops moving to read.

Are you using a mercury or spring-type thermometer?  Also, was the meat 
completed defrosted first?

I can't remember any times I've cooked when the therm. read correctly and
the meat was still underdone...

 re:.3
    
>Are you cooking the meat with the thermometer in or putting in the 
>thermometer after you take the meat out?  It really shouldn't make a 
>difference since the temp shouldn't change; you would just need to wait 
>until the temp gauge stops moving to read.

	I cooked the roast w/ the therm. in the entire time.
	
>Are you using a mercury or spring-type thermometer?  Also, was the meat 
>completed defrosted first?

	Got me on this one, it is a metal (aluminum?) thing with 
	a round circle stuck on the top.....is this the spring type?
	I usually defrost the meat overnite in the fridge and
	it usually feels defrosted, but the middle could be questionable.

>I can't remember any times I've cooked when the therm. read correctly and
>the meat was still underdone...

      	Well, I'm guessing is the roast was done and the thermometer 
	read 150� while in the oven, If I took it out of the oven, the 
	reading *wouldn't* drop to say - off the scale?  It should stay at
	150�.  I know this whole thing sounds dumb.....but, its driving me
	nuts.

	How would I know if my oven was calibrated?  pointers to 
	existing notes are fine.


	Thanks......

	
	

To calibrate your oven, pick up an oven thermometer.  These usually just hang 
from a rack, and tell you what temperature the inside of your oven is.  The
purpose is to find out what you have to set the dial to to really get the 
desired temperature.  Preheat an empty oven with the thermometer hanging in
roughly the center.  If you can read it from a window, so much the better.
Otherwise, wait till the oven indicates that it is at the selected temperature,
and quickly open and read (the temperature will drop quickly, and the blast of
hot air in the face makes it difficult).

I've always removed the roast when it's 5 degrees less than the desired 
temperature.  Then wrap in foil.  The temperature will usually continue to rise
(a little) and in about 15 minutes, the roast is ready to carve.

By the way, it's not impossible that you have a bad meat thermometer.  If you
have another thermometer around, try making comparison readings in hot water.

By the way, I have accumulated both glass and bimetal meat thermometers, but 
since I got my instant readout thermometer, the only thing I use the other 
ones for is to find out what temperature corresponds to what degree of doneness.
 

 If you  have an "instant" thermometer, it will read the correct temperature
in about a minute. This is the type of thermometer that I have. You don't
want to leave this type in while the meat is cooking.

 My guess is that you don't have the thermometer in the middle of the meat.
If you put the thermometer in too deep, it will be closer to the surface of
the roast on the other side (meaning it will read a higher temp than is really
at the center of the roast.) This would have you believe that  the roast is
done when it is not.

 The tip of the thermometer has to be in the center of the thickest part of
the meat to register properly. If you are doing this, then perhaps you might
want to borrow someone else's meat thermometer (preferably one that is known
to work properly). :-)

 Seeing if your oven is calibrated consist of buying or borrowing a $3
oven thermometer and reading the temp at  a given setting (like 350�). If
you have the oven set for 350� and it reads 400, you've got a problem.

 The Doctah

    Try putting the meat in the oven when it is at room temp.  I think the
    middle of your meat is still frozen.  Also be very sure you have the
    thermometer placed in the meat correctly.  I think most of us suffer
    from that one.
    
    Mary Lou
    

 Oh, and BTW, you should allow your roast to sit at room temperature for three
hours before cooking it.

    Hmmm, The oven I'm using is not a super insulated type one (rental 
    property) and cakes and the like usually take longer.  I think I'll
    look for the oven thermometer....
    
    RE: .8  What does leaving the roast out at room temp for 3 hours 
    do?
    
    BTW - I cooked another roast yesterday, and it came out *perfect*!
    ANd this time it was firm to the touch.  The meat thermometer
    registered 170� in the oven and dropped to 140� - 150� after standing
    for a few minutes (it settled).  I let it sit for 20 minutes, about 10
    were in the oven w/ the door open.  Not sure how long I cooked it for, 
    either.  

>    RE: .8  What does leaving the roast out at room temp for 3 hours 
>    do?

 All of my cookbooks say to allow the meat to come to room temperature before
roasting. I believe that the reason for this is that it takes less roasting
time to bring the interior of the roast up to the desired temperature, and
less roasting time means that more juices remain in the roast (though I am
not certain this is _why_ you are supposed to do this.) I'm sure there is
an explanation why in the Joy of Cooking.

> The meat thermometer
>    registered 170� in the oven and dropped to 140� - 150� after standing
>    for a few minutes (it settled).

 I think I understand what is happening. You are leaving the thermometer in
the meat while it cooks. The shaft of the thermometer is metal, and conducts
heat. As the roast cooks, the exposed part of the thermometer heats up in
a manner similar to the old nail in the baked potato. This makes the indicated 
temperature inaccurate. When removed from the heat, the thermometer shows the
true reading after a settling period.

 The Doctah

    re: .10
    
    I think you hit the nail on the head!

�       <<< Note 2909.10 by WAHOO::LEVESQUE "No easy way to be free..." >>>

� I think I understand what is happening. You are leaving the thermometer in
�the meat while it cooks. The shaft of the thermometer is metal, and conducts
�heat. As the roast cooks, the exposed part of the thermometer heats up in
�a manner similar to the old nail in the baked potato. This makes the indicated 
�temperature inaccurate. When removed from the heat, the thermometer shows the
�true reading after a settling period.

Well, maybe... I don't use the spring type thermometer but the mercury 
type.  Definitely parts of it stick out of the meat during cooking and I 
don't see anything like this happen when I leave the therm in the meat 
during cooking.  The therm slowly rises to the expected internal cooking 
temp during the time the meat is in the oven.

 The difference is that the basenote author uses a spring type thermometer
while you use a mercury thermometer. Most spring type thermometers are not 
intended to be left in the roast during cooking; they indicate temperature
in under a minute, and are used to test the temp occasionally, not continuously.

 I think that everything will work out fine if the basenote author doesn't
leave the thermometer in the roast during cooking, and only uses it to test
the roast. Then it will indicate temperature correctly and she can follow
the directions for meat temp in her cookbook.

 The Doctah

> I think that everything will work out fine if the basenote author doesn't
>leave the thermometer in the roast during cooking, and only uses it to test
>the roast. Then it will indicate temperature correctly and she can follow
>the directions for meat temp in her cookbook.

one caveat:

if the cookbook used is more than 10 years old, the recommended meat temps will
probably be unacceptable for today's tastes.  The older cookbooks often
recommended temps that would create a medium rare when advertising a rare
state...and their temps for well-done deliver "charcoal", rather than well
cooked meat (if there IS such a thing - personal editorial opinion).  Most
meat thermometers indicate a range of temperatures to use and these are
fairly accurate to current tastes.

    Ok, so I've never used a meat thermometer....
    
    Thinking perhaps I should use one for the Turkey this year instead of
    relying soley on the pop up timer.  The thermometer we have is a
    stick kind with a round circle top with the various temps/doneness
    for what your cooking.  Are these reliable?  Where do I locate this
    in the bird?  And do I only test with it or cook with it in?  Dumb
    questions I know...but like I said I've never used one and aren't
    sure if relying on the pop up is always the right thing.  BTW, the
    bird is 20 lbs.

re: .16

>  -< Cook with it in >-

That depends on the thermometer.  The old kind with the 1 1/2 or 2 inch 
diameter dials were made for being in the oven the whole time.  Some of
the skinny modern fast-reading ones designed to survive in microwave ovens 
don't take kindly to being left in the bird the whole time.

-Hal

The tip of the thermometer should rest in the center of the thickest part
of the meat on the bird (embedded in the breast, I believe, but may be wrong.)
It should not touch a bone.

The rationale here is that you want to know the true temperatue in the spot
which will be the hardest/longest to cook. Closer to a surface (inside or
out) will reach your desired temperature before the inner parts are fully
cooked. I believe a bone simply heats differently than the meat. I've also
heard that you can be less picky about "centering" the tip of the thermometer
if the bird is well stuffed, since the inside cavity will be better insulated.

-Jack

    what I have always done is push the thermometer down to the bone and
    then back it off about 1/4 inch.  The other thing that has been hard
    for me is to learn to believe the thermometer.  Todays turkeys cook
    much faster than the old ones, (Your mileage may vary with a home-grown
    turkey) and I have dried a couple of birds out thinking that my
    thermometer wasn't reading correctly.  so much for my ancient Fanny
    farmer.
    
    meg