Conference turris::cooks

    It's probably over-worked during kneading.  If you run into this
    problem let the dough rest a while before working with it.
    
    
    				-David

    I let my dough rise, punch it down, and stretch it out while trying
    desperately NOT to play with it too much.  The more you work it, the
    more the gluten is activated, and the more elastic it gets.  I do use a
    different mix for pizza dough than bread, but I doubt that makes much
    difference in the work-ability. 
    
    

    I've done it for over 25 years...
    I use 
    1 cup of warm water (not hot, just warm)
    1 package dry yeast
    salt,
    enough flour to make a dough, not too dense, and able to knead.
    
    Disolve yeast in water, add flour, salt and work it till it can be
    kneaded, knead till smooth greasing your hands to be able to work it...
    shape into a ball with greased hands, put in a bowl, cover and let rise
    in a warm place, away from drafts... it till rise in about an hour.
    
    I nornally get anough dough for 2 large pizzas, (or 2 rectangular ones
    if you use cookie trays)
    
    My favorite pizza:  
    very thinly cut fresh tomatoes, plenty of finely minced garlic, plenty
    of minced fresh basil, and I mean PLENTY, good drizzle of high quality
    olive oil over all, bake for 15 min in 400 degree oven, then springle
    plenty of cheese and put back into over till cheese melts...
    
    This pizza goes beutifully with some beer and some friends... and that
    is the reason why I never have enough home-grown tomatoes during the
    summer to give to friends... we use them all!
    
    	

    Same here, but I add a little bit of olive oil to the dough.
    
    /Charlotte

Can you freeze pizza dough? Since it is only my husband and myself I think
2 pizzas would be a bit much.  At what point would you freeze it (pre rising?)?

Thanks for your help.  

-- Nisha

	I bought a Pizza cookbook and love their basic dough recipe:

	1   C water (115 degrees, which is pretty warm, but not hot)
	1   t sugar
	1   packet yeast

	3   C flour
	.25 C olive oil


	Dissolve sugar in water, add yeast and let sit 5 - 10 min.

	Add oil and water/yeast to flour and mix until moistened.  Knead
	dough on floured surface approx 8-12 minutes.  Let sit until
	doubled in size (usually 45 min to one hour). 

	Transfer the dough to the counter, quickly spread to fit the pizza
	screen, using the heels of your hands.  Brush with olive oil, and
	move it to the oiled screen.  (Need to brush with olive oil first 'cos
	you'll probably need to fold it into quarters to move it, and it'll
	stick together if you don't put oil on it first.)

	My *favorite* pizza is very simple: Sprinkle dough with 1.5 to 2 C
	of shredded mozzarella, 4 or 5 skinned, seeded, and chopped plum
	tomatoes, couple cloves of garlic, and .5 C of freshly grated
	Parmesan cheese (NOT the stuff from the green canister: yuck!).

	Bake at 500 for 10-15 minutes, or until the crust starts to brown 
	and the cheese is bubbly.  The crust comes out best if you put the
	screen on a pizza stone, and heat the stone for 1 hour at 500.  See
	another note in this conference for info on pizza stones...

	Sue

	Oh yeah, Nisha, to answer your question about freezing.

	I made a double recipe once, and after the dough had risen I
	pulled off half and wrapped it tightly with plastic and froze 
	it.  To use it, thaw it completely (takes about 1 hour at room
	temperature), then spread it for the screen, etc.

	The recipe I gave in the last reply makes one pizza.  You could
	stretch it and get two thin crusts if you wanted.  I found that
	it really didn't save me much time to freeze it, and I'd rather
	just make it fresh.

	Sue

    Pizza dough is easier when made in the food processor. Especially since
    you can use the processor to slice pepperoni, chop onion, shred cheese,
    etc. all on one washing!
    
    PROCESSOR PIZZA DOUGH
    ---------------------
    
    The following makes enough dough for one medium pizza.
    
    2/3 cup of water
    1/4 teaspoon sugar
    1 packet yeast (regular, not quick rising, tastes better to me)
    1 tablespoon oil (olive oil for flavor)
    2 cups unbleached white flour
    1/2 teaspoon salt
    
    Warm the water in the microwave for a few seconds, add the sugar and
    yeast, and let proof for a few minutes.
    
    Put flour and salt into food processor, using the regular steel blade.
    Add oil to water/yeast mixture. Turn processor on and then add liquids.
    Process until the dough forms a large ball.
    
    Test the dough for "stickiness".  It should barely stick to your
    fingers.  You may need to add a little flour and reprocess. If your
    measurements were way off, perhaps a bit water may be needed to soften
    the dough.
    
    Remove the dough and, using your hands, form into a ball with a smooth
    surface. Put the dough into a bowl with a little oil in it. Turn the
    dough to coat it with oil, cover the bowl and let rise for 1/2 to 1
    hour in a warm place.
    
    
    TOMATO PIZZA SAUCE
    ------------------ 
    
    While the dough is rising, you can prepare this "classic" sauce. This
    makes enough sauce for two dry pizzas or one "sloppy" one. 
    
    1/2 small onion, cut into chunks
    1 clove garlic
    1 teaspoon olive oil
    1/4 teaspoon hot pepper flakes
    1 small can tomato paste
    1/2 teaspoon dried basil
    1 teaspoon oregano
    1 teaspoon wine vinegar
    1/2 teaspoon Worcestershire sauce
    
    Process onion and garlic for a few seconds until finely chopped. Heat
    oil in a small saucepan, add pepper flakes and cook briefly. Add
    chopped onion and garlic and cook until onion is translucent. Add
    tomato paste. Rince out the can with a half can of water, stir to
    pick up the remaining bits of tomato paste and add to the pan. Stir the
    pan to blend tomato paste and water. Add the remaining ingredients,
    stir to blend.  Heat just until the boiling point (let it "pop" once or
    twice). Cover, remove from the heat and let it cool.
    

    We use prepared frozen bread dough for pizza crusts.
    The biggest problem we have is, as others have mentioned,
    getting it to cover the pan without springing back.
    
    You can get plastic bags of bread dough frozen into
    loaf-sized pieces at many supermarkets.  One loaf is
    about enough for a good sized pizza.

pizza dough is traditionally a "short" (high oil/fat) yeast risen dough.
The trick to making it stretch is to let it rest before working with it and
using the minimum work to achieve the objective.  You need to sneak up on
the gluten or you have silly putty to work with...no matter where you put it,
it snaps back to original position.  If this happens, cover with a damp
cloth and chill for a few minutes.

Basic white or wholewheat bread made with a generous serving of olive oil
makes a great pizza dough.

One of the best pizza I've ever had is the UNO's pizza. Does anyone know how
they make the crust? I suspect some kind of shortening.

Raj

>One of the best pizza I've ever had is the UNO's pizza. Does anyone know how
>they make the crust? I suspect some kind of shortening.

shortning?  perhaps olive oil?  If it is authentic at all, the crust is made
with flour, salt, yeast, olive oil, and water....(according to the frug, of
course)

    I made pizza last night, so the dough recipe is fresh (no pun intended!)
    in my mind.  This recipe has ALWAYS come out great -- never tough.
    

			Pizza Dough

	3 cups flour
	1 tsp. salt
	1 package yeast
	1 tsp. sugar
	1 cup plus 3 tsp. warm water
	1 tbsp. olive oil

	Mix water and sugar together.  Add yeast and let it sit a couple
	minutes.

	Put flour and salt in food processor.  Add water/sugar/yeast
	mixture.  Process for 45 seconds.

	Add olive oil and process for an additional 60 seconds.

	Turn out onto a floured board and cover with a bowl or clean 
	cloth.  Let it sit for at least 1/2 hour before using.  (No 
	kneading is necessary -- the processor does it all!)  

	* My mother has been adding some ground black pepper to the
    	  flour/salt mixture and says it's great.  I've never tried it.

re. 14  

     does the water have to be warmed to a specific temp before adding the 
yeast?

    
    Crash's Pizza Dough:
    
    Throw four big handfuls of flower into your trusty KitchenAid.  Nuke a
    stick of butter till it boils and froths, toss that in, plus half a
    handful of nonfat dry milk, half a handful of sugar, and as much salt
    as you can pinch between three fingers (that's the "three-finger
    measure").  If you got eggs, toss one or two in; if you don't have any,
    don't worry.  Put the flat beater on, switch the KA to "2" and let it
    be. 
    
    Get a coffee mug and fill it with the hottest water you can still put
    your fingers into.  Toss in three fingers of sugar four times, and
    three fingers of yeast out of the jar twice (or two packets, if all ya
    have are packets).  Stir well till everything's dissolved, and then two
    minutes longer. 
    
    Turn of the KA, and pour the coffeemug of yeasty water into the bowl.
    Pour in another coffeemug full of hot-as-the-tap-goes water.  Switch
    to "4", let it run until the batter looks well mixed, like pancake batter.  
    
    Turn off the KA, and switch to the breadhook.  Switch to "6", and add
    flour by the quarter-handful.  Wait till each quarter-handful is mixed
    in before adding another, and stop when the dough is still a little
    sticky.  Run the mixer for another five to ten minutes just to make
    sure everything is really mixed up well.
    
    Put plastic wrap over the bowl, and put the bowl someplace warm (like
    an oven that's been turned on a few minutes and then turned off).  
    Go away for half an hour.  
    
    Put the bowl back into the KA for five more minutes of breadhooking,
    and your pizza dough is ready.  You can give it ten minutes to relax
    before you try to roll it out.  This dough can even be "spun and thrown" 
    into shape if you feel really lucky.  Yes, it stretches very very well.
    
    Oh yeah- this makes two thick-bread pizzas, or one thick-bread pizza
    for Friday night, and breakfast rolls/bread/pizza for the morning
    after.  Keep the dough cool overnight and it'll be fine in the morning.
    
    -----
    
    I like to put a layer of hard cheese (like fine grated peccorino)
    on as the first layer in my pizzas; the "bite" of the peccorino comes
    through very nicely if it's protected from the direct heat of the oven
    by all the other fixin's on top.  
    
    	-Bill
                                                                

    
    Technically water should be 110F when you add the yeast.  I've 
    been making breads and for a long time and have never had
    a problem with yeast failing.  Proof it first, if it doesn't
    foam and you think the water is too cool, add some hot water
    (Not too much, not too hot).  Remember that 110F is only 11.5
    degrees warmer than you.  Stick your finger in it, if it feels
    warm, it will work. 
    
    dm
    

    
    Best to get a thermometer if you want accuracy.  I've found (using a
    *real* thermometer, calibrated in a chemistry lab) that what feels hot
    to me is around 100F (remember, your hands are used to being in cool
    environments).  Water feels HOT at 100F and my fingers say they're
    being close to scalded at 110F.  Warm (for me) is 92 to 95F.  
    
    Maybe we should have people go buy thermometers?
    
    	-Bill

    I can't judge temperature all that well, so I always use a yeast
    thermometer.   I dissolve the yeast at 115 oF, and it always works - I
    find that if I rely on what feels "hot" to my hand, the water is
    usually hotter than that and sometimes kills the yeast.  I don't know
    what temperature you need for cake yeast - haven't used cake yeast
    since I was a little kid.  And I do not make recipes that mix the yeast
    in with the flour, so I don't recall what temperature liquid you need
    for that - hotter, but I am not sure how hot.
    
    /Charlotte

 I made a pizza on friday. It was pretty good. Two problems, though.

 1. I don't have a peel, so I assembled the pizza on a cookie sheet (one of 
those double aluminum ones that doesn't have any edges) which had been
sprinkled with corn meal. By the time I had the oven ready, I couldn't
slide it off the cookie sheet onto the stone. 

 2. The dough was more yeasty tasting than what I get at a regular pizza
place.

 I think the solution to 1 is not assembling the pizza until the oven is already
at temperature. My pizza sat fully assembled for about 10 minutes before the
stone was hot enough. I think that's why it stuck. I'll probably put even
more corn meal under it next time.

 I don't know what to do about 2, though. Less yeast? Cook it longer?

 The Doctah

    What exactly is a pizza stone?

I made pizza on Sunday eve, with all the gadgets!  I used a piza stone for the
first time....IT WAS GREAT!  alittle messy though!  I could not get the 
pizza to slide off the peel as I think the pizza was too heavy.....

Anyone have any tips?  I also am having trouble cleaning the stone as you
are only to use water...and I imagine no scouring devices....

On the dough issue, I made dough in the Cuisinart....it is easy and light!
I combined 2 cups of regular flour and 1 cup whole wheat...added 
the TBL of yeast and sugar to one cup of warm water (measured temp in the
microwave with the temp probe) and a 1/4 c olive oil....just mix and knead
for about 5 minutes....let rise about an hour and go!

I used piza yeast (from william sonoma) which was a gift!  That might have
accounted for the lightness of the dough!!!

Also have a great spicy tomato sauce for the pizza.

  Sometimes we "set" the pizza dough first by sliding it onto the pizza
stone, cooking it for a few minutes, and then removing it.  Then we add
the toppings.

--Sharon

 I made another pizza last night. It turned out great.

 To make the pizza slide onto the stone from the cookie sheet, I did a couple
of things. First, I floured my hands well and floured the dough as I worked
it out so that it wasn't sticky. I made sure there was LOTS of corn meal on
the cookie sheet. And I made the pizza and slid it onto the stone very quickly.
I had alot of ingredients so it was pretty heavy. Letting it sit on the
peel makes it stick (for me.) Do it quickly. 

 This was also less yeasty tasting; I think it just cooked better on the
stone.

 The Doctah

    I love the yeasty flavor and fragrance of the pizza dough.  As a matter
    of fact if the dough smells great I figure I've got a good pizza.  I
    can walk into Steve's Pizza in W.Boylston and just drool because of the
    fragrance of the yeast.  Why do so many find it unappealing?
    
    

    RE: -1
    
    Yeastiness is a matter of taste.  (Your question is a bit like saying
    why don't some people like liver)
    
    RE: The Doctah (some replies back)
    
    You CANNOT put too much cornmeal under your pizza, peel or not peel.
    As the pizza sits, the dough begins to rise, and move around the 
    corn meal (so if there's not a solid layer of corn meal, it adheres
    to the board/pan/whatever).  If you don't like the flavor of your
    crust, try another recipe, I happen to like the yeasty I get with
    my wholewheat crust.  Another crust I use is sourdough.
    
    dm
    
    

     somone in the cooking industry called corn-meal under pizza dough the
    ball bearings of the product.  It works the same as ball bearings do,
    and not so hard to chew I guess.
    
    
    Bad, sad humor today
    

So what do you do about the corn meal that is left in the oven smoking and 
burning when the pizza comes out?  We made pizzas on a stone for a while, 
but could never figure out how you'd go about making more than one pizza 
without putting the second one on top of all that burned and burning 
cornmeal.  In fact, we quit cooking them directly on the stone because of 
all the smoke created by the burning cornmeal after the pizza was removed.  
It is better cooked directly on the stone, but not if you have to smell   
smoke for the next three days.  Is there something we're missing here?

Steve

 How hot do you have your oven? I've been using 450� and the cornmeal 
hasn't burned. It got a little brown, but it didn't burn and it didn't
smoke.

 Do you have your second pizza ready to put in the oven immediately 
when you pull out the first pizza?

 The Doctah

> How hot do you have your oven? I've been using 450� and the cornmeal 
>hasn't burned. It got a little brown, but it didn't burn and it didn't
>smoke.

We usually set it to 500, and (according to instructions in The New Basics) 
let it preheat for an hour before putting the pizza in.

> Do you have your second pizza ready to put in the oven immediately 
>when you pull out the first pizza?

No.  We only have one peel.  The peel is used to remove the first pizza 
from the oven.  Then the second pizza has to be built on the peel, which 
takes a few minutes.  So there's a little lag time there.

But ... the problem doesn't just occur when cooking two pizzas.  When we
cook only one pizza, after it's removed the leftover cornmeal just sits
there in the hot oven and burns and smokes while the oven slowly cools
down.  In the winter we open the oven door, which heats up the kitchen
terribly, doesn't completely keep the cornmeal from burning, and releases
all the smoke into the kitchen -- better than the alternative, but not a
good solution.  But in a Texas summer, that's not really a very desirable
thing to do. 

Steve

>We usually set it to 500, and (according to instructions in The New Basics) 
>let it preheat for an hour before putting the pizza in.
    
    Yikes, why let the oven preheat for so long?  What could that possibly
    buy you (aside from higher fuel bills, if you make a lot of pizza)?

>We usually set it to 500, and (according to instructions in The New Basics) 
>let it preheat for an hour before putting the pizza in.

 Maybe the 50� makes a difference. In any case, I think that a 1 hour preheating
cycle is excessive, unless your stone is 2" thick. :-) I let the oven heat up
to temperature, and then make the pizza. By the time I'm done making the pizza,
I just put it in and the stone is plenty hot enough.

 What kind of corn meal are you using? (I don't know if this would make a 
difference or not.) I've been using Quaker.

 I think you might try cooking at 450� with a shorter preheat cycle. Perhaps
your oven doesn't regulate well at 500� and you are actually getting a hotter
oven after an hour...

 The Doctah

    I just saw a "corn meal brush" in the pizza section of a yuppy
    cooking store (The Kitchen, I believe).
    
    It looked suspiciously like a wallpaper pasting brush.  I think any
    stiff-bristled brush would do the job.
    
    bob collins
    

    
    Absolutely, any good wisk-type brook would do fine, just make 
    sure the bristles are straw (or something similar) and not 
    plastic/nylon.  
    
    dm

	For the past few months, the pizza dough recipe I "swore by" in .14
	was coming out terrible -- sticky, tough, and completely unmanageable.  
	I finally figured out that it was caused by a different brand of
	flour.  So, for those of you using the recipe in .14, don't try it
	with King Arthur All-Purpose flour unless you want to drive yourself
	crazy!

	Cara 
	(who_will_stay_with_Gold_Medal_from_now_on!)

    King Arthur is the only flour I've used for a year, but I add flour or
    water till the dough feels right regardless of the recipe.
    
    ed

    RE: .35, .36
    
    I've used King Arthur flour for years and never had a problem.  I
    concur with .36, King Arthur is fine, make sure you go by feel and not
    recipe.
    
    This is true with breads too, never ever trust the recipe for fixed
    amounts of flour, there are simply too many variables involved.
    
    				-David

    I've never had a problem with King Arthur's unbleached flour in 
    breads, but....
    
    I did have a series of cakes collapse on me until I switched back to
    all-purpose flour.  King Arthur didn't have a believable explanation,
    but as soon as I switched back, the cakes stopped collapsing.  
    
    Now I use all-purpose for cakes, and unbleached for most breads.
    
    --Sharon
    

    It must be something odd in your cake-baking methods - I haven't bought
    any other white flour but King Arthur's for years, and I haven't had a
    cake fail to rise in many years.   Oh, well, use what works for your
    recipes.
    
    /Charlotte

	Yeah, I eventually modified the recipe to work (just added more 
	flour).  But I preferred the dough texture with the Gold Medal 
	flour better than with the King Arthur flour.

	Cara 
	(who_didn't_feel_the_dough_cos_it_was_mixing_in_the_Cuisinart!)

    I used to be a cook at Uncle Tonys Pizza and Pasta, in Marlboro, about
    seven years ago.
    After I left I still made pizzas the way we did there.
    I dont need dough for a hundred pizzas obviosly, so I cut it down to
    one.
    It's good to use the high cluton flour but I've had good results just
    using regular flour. I prefer pilsbury.
    
    It's basically the same as others in this note but here goes.
    For a 12" round pizza or an average cookie sheet.
    
    2 tbl vegtable shortening or one heaping.
    1 cube brewers yeast
    1 1/2 cup extra warm water
    1 tsp or less of sugar
    1 tsp of salt
    flour
    
    I never measure, I add by eye. 
    
    In a bowl put shortening, water, sugar
    Mix a little then crumble yeast in and mix till yeast desolves "it wont
    completly"
    Then add salt: can't add salt earlier because salted water will kill
    fresh unactivated yeast.
    
    Mix ingredients adding flour until dough stops sticking to the bowl.
    BUT DON'T PUT TOO MUCH FLOUR!
    
    Knead dough turning it into itself untill no lumps or loose flour is
    left, about 15-20 times.
    Place back in bowl, cover with plastic put in warm place.
    Let it double in size.
    
    Greese pan with shortening.
    Spread dough on pan and cover with plastic.
    Let rise again.
    
    I know, alot of work but good deep pan pizza
    
    Now to cook!
    Add favorite sause generously to dough because some will cook away.
    Put in preheated oven 450 deg.
    Cook till edges begin to seperate from pan, around 10-15 min.
    Remove from oven and add your toppings.
    At Tonys we used 3 parts cheddar 1 part mozzarella. Thats what I use
    too.
    Cook untill cheese bubbles on whole surface bout another 10-15
    depending on your oven and how many toppings you have.
    
    Takes some work for the dough so I make extra crusts.
    I cook them with the sause then remove. Let cool then freeze.
    That way, next time you can add your toppings and your ready to go.
    
    Pizza Uno does something similar to this method with thier store bought
    pizzas you can get. The dough and sause is cooked but not the toppings.
    Except they don't freeze them.
    Their store boxed pizza cost to much for me.
    
    gasp... need a breath after all that.
                                         Good luck
                                                Scott.
                                                  

    RE:41
    Forget what I said about pizza uno. I think they cook the whole thing
    before sending them out to stores.
    I don't care for their chunky sause anyway. 
                                                   Scott.

Scott,

Question for you.  After the dough has risen can you let it sit for awhile in
the bowl before cooking it or does it need to go right into the oven. Say I
wanted to make pizza dough in the morning to get it out of the way, is there
any phase in the pizza dough making that I can stop before cooking the pizza's.
I didn't know if letting it sit would make it to "yeasty" tasting.

Thanks,

Debbi

    Sometimes we "set" the dough by putting it into the oven until it's 
    getting rigid, and then we let it cool and use it when we're
    ready.
                 
    --Sharon
    

Great thanks, I've always wanted to know how to do that.

Did anyone ever make the pizza dough at Papa Gino's?  I used to work there when
I was younger and they have a bin of fresh pizza dough sitting there, and use
that whenever someone places an order.  I don't remember seeing anyone ever 
make it before, so therefore I assume it must be made in the morning and just
sits.  Will the dough only rise a certain amount?  How do they keep for getting
a "yeasty taste?"

Debbi

    RE:.43
    Once the the dough has risen in the pan you can put it in the
    refrigerator covered with plastic.
    Thats what we did at the restaurant.
    You can leave it in the fridge overnight, but any longer 
    than that is to long.
    In other words, if you make it in the morning you can store it for that
    night if you want.
                                                    Scott.

    Yes, wrap it up and stick it in the fridge.  I never kept dough more
    than 12 hours or so, though.  If you don't and it rises too much, just
    punch it down and let it rise again (which will take less time than the
    original rising) - not sure how many times you can get away with this.
    I've taken to using fast-rising yeast, so we have pizza on the table
    two hours or less after I start making the dough.
    
    /Charlotte

GREAT!  Thanks for the info....

Debbi

    I've been making pizzas at home the past few years and have settled
    on a favorite dough recipe. It wasn't anywhere near what I call real
    pizza parlor dough (Regina's, Papa Gino's, Bertucci's to name a few)
    but it wasn't bad either. I even took a pizza making class at Assabet
    Vocational in Marlboro a few weeks ago, hoping to snag a great dough
    recipe. The instructor used to work at Regina's and now works at a
    place in Fitchburg called Espresso's (I think that's the name). Anyway,
    his recipe wasn't what I'm looking for either but the class was fun.
    
    I have been buying pizza dough at my local Star Market (Julio's in
    Westboro) and it's excellent. They charge $.89 for about one pound
    which is just enuf to make one pizza. I've asked for the recipe but to
    no avail. Stop and Shop also carries a pizza dough (these are both
    fresh, not frozen) which is also good. 
    
    Has anyone tried either of these and have a clue as to how to get the
    recipe? The ingredients are on the bag but alas, no proportions.
    
    Keith
    

    I've started buying my dough at Bertucci's in Marlboro.  The pizzas
    taste and smell great.

  As several people have said, I use the frozen bread dough.  Toss the frozen
   lump in the oven when I get up in the morning. Cover lightly with clearwrap 
   and when I get home - PIZZA!

  For those of you who don't have a Pizza stone, a Castiron skillet works great.
  Coat the bottom with a little olive oil and toss in the dough.  I do have a
   slight problem with it springing back, but if you work it a bit it stays put!

  I've tried making dough from scratch (I'm pretty good with yeast), but since 
  my family wants food within 15 minutes of me walking in the door, this is very
  helpful.  I also don't think I sacrifice a bit of taste this way either!

  I also use Pizza cheese and have found this is excellent stuff.  It is a 
  combination of several cheeses and really gives an authentic flavor.  

  I'd just as soon make my pizza at home any more - I can't get it any better 
  any where close to home.  
 
 Also throw in an extra loaf in the morning and make breadsticks.  I use the 
 Cheez-wiz ZAP-A-PAKs (medium Mexican) as the dip -- wonderful to munch on 
 while your pizza cooks.

/Teri

 

    I've made my pizzas this way for years, but I use 2 loaves of the bread
    dough and just put it on a large cookie sheet. It's normally a weekend
    treat, so I put it out overnite so it gets big and fluffy. I pre-cook
    the crust for 10min at 350, checking because sometimes it shrinks from
    the sides of the sheet.
    I also "layer" it. I usually put a layer of mushrooms, then cheese, then 
    meat,a different cheese,then peppers and onions on top. We (2) get two 
    meals from this, as a couple pieces are quite filling w/all that cheese.
    The final product goes 10min at 450, which cooks everything and crisps
    the crust.
    Definitely a diet-buster!!
    
    Lynn      

re .-2:

Hey!  Pizza w/ sausage and peppers is 4 of the 4 food groups!!

On a different subject, I recently tried Boboli, a prepared baked crust that's
showing up in lots of markets lately.  Actually, I decided to give it a try
after reading about them in a recent Bon Apetit article.  As someone who prefers
thin crust pizza, but will eat just about anything, these are quite good.

The crust itself is seasoned with onion, cheese and garlic.  I top it with 
sauce and cheese and pop it on the pizza stone.  The result is super!

I also purchased some of the small size crusts.  These are lots thinner than the
large, by the way.  I made several different pizzas, sliced into quarters and
served as an hors d'oeurve at a party.  They got gobbled up faster than I could
produce them.

Definitely worth a try.

And on yet another subject, has anyone ever used a round pizza stone on their
Webber grill, and made pizza with a smokey flavor??  I recently read about this
somewhere, and it sounds like a great idea.

    At Shaws last week they had a woman in the store making little Boboli
    Pizza's, my sister and I both tried it and ended up purchasing all the
    fixing and at my house it was dinner, at her house it was a snack
    (bigger eaters in her family).  This will probably become our Friday
    night special.
    
    Roberta 

    I guess what my homemade pizza dough making endeavors is gonna come
    down to is just giving in and adding the amount of fat the recipes
    call for. I've been typically cutting out 2/3 of the oil called for
    as I always try to reduce fat wherever possible. I'm beginning to 
    think this is the missing link in producing dough with a pizza
    parlor taste. It just seems that 3 tbsp of oil is a lot of fat for
    just one pizza, especially when you add all the fat in cheese on
    top of it.
    
    I tried one of the suggestions in here where you simply place the water
    yeast and sugar in a bowl until the yeast proofs and follow this up
    with adding oil and the flour salt mixture a bit at a time until it
    gets workable. This certainly produced the easiest_to_work dough yet
    but it was very dry, again perhaps due to the addition of only one
    tbsp oil. By the way, when I said very dry, I meant after cooking the
    normal manner in which I always cook pizzas.
    
    Keith
    

boboli crust, healthy pasta sauce instead of pizza sauce from a can or jar
(too oily and salty), chopped lean ham, a few pieces of pepperoni to make
me feel wicked, fresh mushrooms, green pepper, red onion slices, and part
skim mozzerella cheese....top with parmesan and chopped fresh asparagus...
this is living!  and I was within the fat limits for healthy eating!

I really like boboli.

re: .54

My mothers pizza dough recipe has only 6T oil for 6 pizzas!!  The dough
itself has only 2T oil, the rest is used to grease each pizza before
you put the toppings on.

Here it is! :

2 C warm water 
2 pkg dry yeast 
2 tsp sugar 
2 tsp salt 
2 T olive oil 
6 C flour 
Parmesan cheese
4-1/2 T olive oil
pizza/spagetti sauce
vegetable toppings
meat toppings

Combine warm water and yeast. Allow to sit for 5 to 10 minutes. Add sugar,
salt and oil. Beat with mixer. Add 3 C flour, beating in with mixer. Add by
hand enough flour to make dough firm to handle (about 3 C). Allow to rise in
greased bowl covered by wet cloth. Put in warm place for 1 1/2 hours. Punch
down when risen. Stretch over pizza pans. Spread 3/4 T oil on each pizza.
(I usually put 1 tsp or less)

Then sprinkle on enough Parmesan cheese to start absorbing oil. Then spread at
least 3/4 C sauce on pizza. Then put on selected vegetables 
and meats. Bake at 425 degrees for 10 minutes. Then top with grated cheese 
and bake 10 minutes longer. 

Note: dough is done rising when slight touch causes dough to 
start collapsing. 

    Made this one up one day when I was out of yeast. It's great when you 
    want a quick homemade pizza fix!
    
    No need for measurments, just add water to the right consistency.
    
    Thin crust 12"pizza.
    
    Start with about a half cup water. Add around 2 tbs shortening.
    Some suger and salt. Dump in about a teaspoon of backing powder.
    Put in about 2/3 cup flour. Mix up till smooth. Then add flour
    until the dough isn't sticky. 
    
    Greese pan with olive oil. Spread doe so it's about 1/8 thick.
    Spread olive oil on top of dough. Put in oven and cook at 500
    till crust gets a little brown around the edges. Crust will shrink
    about an inch in diameter so make a good border to hold the toppings.
    
    Remove crust from oven. Add toppings. Cook till done. Pig out!
    
    This makes an awesome crust for quiche"sp". Or add more sugar
    and shortening and it makes a good pie crust.
    
    							Scott.

    Does anyone know what makes UNO's pizza crust so different that 
    others?  It tastes almost like a pie crust.
    
    

    
    
    Uno's crust has a high proportion of fat/oil compared to a standard
    bread-like pizza dough.  I also believe that cornmeal is an ingredient
    in the crust to add crunch.  If I recall corectly, Jeff Smith gave
    a recipe for Uno-type pizza dough on one of his shows....
    
    

    
    
    We were also told that Uno's adds cheese to their dough...
    
    

    
    I have a recipe for Pizzeria Uno's crust at home.  Cornmeal is the 
    mystery ingredient.  If memory serves me correctly, there wasn't
    any cheese in it.   I've been experimenting with pizza dough recipes
    for a long time.  My favorite type of pizza is a thin crust, crispy
    on the bottom, yet chewy in the center.  I've come to really like the 
    following recipe which is simple but very tasty.  One of the key things
    I've found is that you need to make sure that the temperature of the 
    water is correct for proofing the yeast.  If it's not, you end up with
    a very yeasty flavored dough.  I bought a yeast thermometer which
    insures that the water is the correct temperature, and have had great
    pizzas ever since.  Also a necessity, is a pizza stone or set of 
    unglazed quarry tiles to bake the pizza on.  I preheat the oven to 500
    degrees with the pizza stone in it, for 1 hour prior to baking the
    pizza.  You also need a pizza peel or a pizza screen.
    Here's the recipe I use:
    
    Dough:
    
    3 cups of flour
    1/2 tsp salt
    1 cup warm (112-115 degrees) water
    1 package of active dry yeast 
    
    Add yeast to water, stir well to mix, and allow to stand 5 minutes. If 
    you get a thin layer of bubbles on top of the yeast, then it proofed 
    successfully.  I find this step to be critical in making a good dough.
    
    (I use a Kitchen Aid mixer for the following, if you do it by hand,
    then knead the dough for approximately 12 to 15 minutes)
    
    Add all ingredients to the Kitchen Aid.  Mix with the flat paddle for 
    about 1 minute until all ingredients are moist.  Change to the dough 
    hook, and knead the dough on setting 6 for 5 minutes.
    
    Lightly oil a bowl with a tsp of olive oil, and place the dough inside.
    Lightly coat the dough with the oil to keep it from getting crusty.
    Cover tightly with plastic wrap, and place in a warm spot to rise until
    doubled in size, approximately 1 hour and 45 minutes.  I put mine on
    top of the oil furnace to rise, the temperature is ideal.
    
    This makes enough dough for 2 pizzas.  Divide the dough, and roll it 
    out on a floured pastry board to the desired size, usually about 12
    inches.  If you don't want to roll it, you can stretch it out to shape
    as well, it's easier to roll it.  Brush it lightly with olive oil.
    
    Prepare the pizza peel by sprinkling it with yellow cornmeal, fold the 
    pizza crust in half, and transfer it to the pizza peel, and unfold it
    again.  Be generous with the cornmeal since the pizza has to slide off
    of the peel onto the pizza stone.  The cornmeal acts as the "ball
    bearings".  Sprinkle the pizza with your favorite cheese, or blend,
    then spoon sauce on top of the cheese, and spread it with the back of 
    a spoon.  Putting the cheese on first causes the crust to stay crispy
    and not get sogged out from the sauce.  Finally, sprinkle the whole 
    thing with a bit of freshly grated parmesan, and if desired, drizzle
    with a small amount of olive oil.  Slide the pizza off the peel onto
    the stone with a quick jerking motion (takes practice), and bake it 
    for 10 minutes or until nicely browned and bubbling.  Remove and place 
    on a cutting board lined with paper towels (they absorb the moisture 
    as the pizza cools, and keep the crust crisp.)  You can also brush the
    outer edges of the crust with a little bit of good quality olive oil 
    if desired.
    
    For the sauce:
    
    1 28oz can of good quality Italian plum tomatoes
    2 Tbsp tomato paste
    1/2 tsp basil
    1/2 tsp oregano
    1-2 cloves chopped or minced garlic.
    salt & freshly ground pepper
    
    Add all ingredients together in a small saucepan.  Simmer over low heat 
    for 1 hour stirring frequently.  

    Wow,I'm impressed,If I lived closer I'd make you invite me round for
    dinner.Mr Vigneault? Whats your first name?lets be informal we're all
    friends here.You must be really determined to get to this stage of
    perfection.I blunder along with pre-made bases besause I'm lazy but you
    have definitely got my interest to give the dough a try.The sauce is
    about the same as mine,but then everybody has their own tomato sauce
    recipe.What toppings do you use?
    Geoff.

    
    Well, first name is Larry.  Actually, I've been a contributor to 
    this conference for a long time, but relatively scarce lately due
    to work load etc...
    
    I've tried a number of different toppings, but my favorite tends to 
    be a blend of white cheddar, mozzerella, asiago, and fontina cheeses.
    
    I usually buy some wedges of each, and grate them in the food
    processor, then mix them all together.  Parmegiano Reggiano is my
    favorite parmesan for topping it off, but there are some other good
    parmesans available as well.  Since I buy wedges, the mix ratio of
    the different cheeses changes depending on the weight of the wedges
    I use.   Pizza is such a personal thing,   I really like this recipe
    but some folks don't like thin crust pizza.  You can also add olive oil
    to the crust ingredients, but I found I didn't like the resultant 
    texture as much.  I'll post the pizzaria Uno crust recipe tomorrow
    if I remember.  
    
    Larry

re: .62

Another tip when using cornmeal as "ball bearings" is to try to find
coarser cornmeal.  Try looking in the hispanic food section of your
market.

-Hal

Re: .62

>    pizzas ever since.  Also a necessity, is a pizza stone or set of 
>    unglazed quarry tiles to bake the pizza on.  I preheat the oven to 500


Why unglazed tiles?

    
    I'm speculating that the reason you want unglazed is due to the high
    heat that the tiles are subjected to.  Perhaps the glaze can be 
    imparted to the pizza crust when it heats up.  The benefit of 
    quarry tiles over a pizza stone are the fact that they're cheaper,
    and you can size it however you want.  Most pizza stones come in a
    specific size. You can line your oven shelf with quarry tiles as 
    long as you leave a 1 inch opening around the outer perimeter of 
    the shelf to allow heat to circulate. This gives you a wide area to
    cook on.  Also, if you go this route, get the thicker tiles, about
    a 1/2 inch thick is good.  The thinner ones may not deal with the 
    heat changes very well and may crack.  Also,  place the tiles or
    stone in the oven _before_ you turn the oven on to preheat. Allow
    the stones to preheat along with the oven, or they'll crack and break.
    To clean the stone, put it in the oven during the self cleaning 
    cycle.
    
    Lv

    re unglazed tiles
    
    You want unglazed so that the moisture in the dough can be pulled out
    by the hot tiles.  This leaves the bottom nice and crispy.  Also, if
    you build your own stone from tiles, you can line the ove all the way 
    to the edge if you are very careful.  If you do this you can get the 
    bottom of the oven greater than 500 degrees, assuming that the temp
    probe in you oven is on top.  What I normally do is set my homemade 
    stone, 16"X16" into the oven and set the temp all the way up.  When the
    oven indicates 500 degrees, the bottom is over 600.  I then slide the
    pizza onto the stone and turn the oven down to 400.  This always give
    me a very nice crispy crust.  I hate soggy pizza!!!
    
    Been doin pizza this way for 15 years now and they always get rave
    reviews.
    
    Ken
    

    Sounds like a great idea... where do I buy unglazed quarry stones?  How
    do I build a pizza stone... do you have them mortered together? or in a
    rack or set in individualy.. what size do they come in....
    
    Curious
    

    
    Not a complicated task.  You can buy them at any store that sells
    tiles for flooring etc.  You simply line your oven shelf with 
    them so that they butt up against each other.  Just measure your 
    oven to determine how many squares you can fit.  You need to allow
    at least a 1 inch opening around the perimiter of the shelf.
    
    Sort of like this:
    
                  +-----------------------+
                  | |    |    |    |    | <---- 1 inch space
                  | |____|____|____|____| | 
                  | |    |    |    |    <------ Tile 
                  | |____|____|____|____| |
                  | |    |    |    |    | | 
                  | |____|____|____|____| |
                  | |    |    |    |    | | 
                  | |____|____|____|____| |              
                  +-----------------------+

    Could I make my life easier by using fire brick morter and glue these
    to a cookie sheet?

    I'm no expert, but I think that the introduction of metal (the cookie 
    sheet) could defeat the purpose of using stones.  Metal heats quickly,
    while stone/tile heats up at a slower rate, but retains the heat
    longer.  The cookie sheet would heat up fast, and you might end up with
    an overall uneven heating of the stone.  (Especially if you were to use
    a cheap cookie sheet, which would tend to heat more unevenly itself.)
    
    Experts?
    
    
    Susan

    Do you leave the tiles in all the time?  How does this affect regular
    baking?  Is the oven slower to heat and slower to cool?  (Thinking of
    summer coming up...)
    
    L

    I built a sheet out of 20 g. steel and set the tiles in it.  Looks like
    a cookie sheet but built to the exact size of the tiles.  It has a
    short lip on it to keep the tiles in place.  I pull mine out, brush
    off the left over corn meal, and put it in the closet.  One thing to
    note is that after about five years of use, and it does get used a
    lot, many of the tiles have cracked.  But because they are held in
    place by the sheet of steel, who cares, it still works just fine.  I
    got tired of buying a new stone every few years only to have them crack
    and need to be replaced, so I decided that I was going to build the
    last pizza stone I'll ever need.  
    
    Ken

    rep .74
    
    	That's why I use a round pizza stone.  And I have bought only one
    	of these, and have had it for 10 years.  Cost about $12.00.  Just 
    	remove it from the oven the next day, scrape any burned-on stuff 
    	off it with a metal spatula, and store it back in the original 
    	box, in the pantry.

    
    
    Although there are several mentions of pizzaria uno's crust 
    in this note, there are no recipes.  Just thought I would
    ask one more time if anyone knows how to make it.  I have
    a deep dish pizza stone/pan that I would like to try.
    
    

    It's the sames one as in the Jeff Smith's Frug cooks American cookbook.
    He goes on about the thick crust pizza that's served in Chicago and
    gives the recipe. I have it at home. I also saw him make it on one of
    the recent shows on PBS. Looks and tastes just like Uno's.
    
    

    could you post this recipe?  please?  we love uno pizzas and buy them
    whenever the local supermarkets run sales.  might be cheaper to make
    them ourselves, tho.
    
    thanks.
    
    sandy

RE: .78

Are you too frugal to go out and buy the cookbook or something?

--PSW

    Here ya go:
    
                      Deep-Dish Pizza Crust
    
    2 Pkgs Quick Rise Dry Yeast
    2 Cups tepid water (90-110)
    1/2 Cup salad oil
    4 Tbls Olive Oil
    1/2 Cup cornmeal
    5-1/2 Cups Flour
    
    In the bowl of your electrice mixer - KitchenAid is perfect for this-
    dissolve the yeast in the water. Add the oils, cornmeal, and 3 cups
    of the flour. Beat for 10 minutes with the mixer. Change to the dough
    hook and mix in the additional 2-1/2 cups of flour. Knead for several
    minutes with the machine. It is very hard to do this by hand since the
    dough is very rich and moist.
    
    Pour out the dough on a plastic countertop and cover with a very large
    metal bowl. Allow to rise until double in bulk. Punch down and allow
    to rise again. Punch down a second time and you are ready to make
    pizza!
    
    Oil round cake pans (I use a cast iron skillet). Put a bit of dough
    in each pan and push it out to the edges, using your fingers. Put
    enough dough in so that you can run the crust right up the side of
    the pan. Spread out the dough to about an 1/8 inch thinck throughout
    the pan.
    
    Please note: there is no salt or sugar in this dough.
    
    The filling is anything you like, but the way unos does it is:
    
    mozzarella cheese, canned plum tomatoes, drained and squished,
    basil, oregano, garlic, parmesan cheese, and a little olive oil
    on top. Just throw it on and bake for 35-40 minutes in a 475 degree
    oven until the top is golden and gooey.
    
    Enjoy it!
    
    BTW: the book is in paperback, or you can also do what I do, stop at
    the library and photocopy a recipe that I want.
    
    Tom
    

    .79 -- YES!
    
    i have so many cookbooks that i use for only one or two recipes --
    don't need another to further weaken my shelf.
    

    I have to admit.   I take the easy way out with Pizza dough.   Now that
    I have my bread machine, I just use the standard white bread dough
    recipe on the manual cycle to make pizza dough.   After the manual
    cycle is complete, I shape my dough and place it in a pizza pan.  I
    then cover the dough and let it have a 10 minute rising time.   Also to
    make sure that my thicker crust gets completely done before the pizza
    burns, I throw it (the dough) in the oven for 5 minutes for pre-cook
    time before I add all the pizza fixings.  Then it only takes about
    10 minutes before the pizza is done.    I usually bake this ~450
    degrees on the lowest shelf in the oven.  This really helps to make the
    crust crunchier.   

RE: .81

It's just that the Frug's cookbooks ARE copyrighted works.  It's 
neither legal nor ethical to copy a recipe verbatim from one of those 
books into this conference.

--PSW

>It's just that the Frug's cookbooks ARE copyrighted works.  It's 
>neither legal nor ethical to copy a recipe verbatim from one of those 
>books into this conference.

	So, change the text a bit.  Instead of saying "stir", say "mix";
	instaed of "assemble" say "put together"...etc.

	There are ways around a copyright!

	Laura

    uhoh, not that debate again.  :-)
    
    ed

RE: .84

I've got no problem with taking the recipe, putting it in your own 
words, and entering it here.  But I do have a problem with simply 
copying recipies verbatim out of a published book.

--PSW

    
    Supposedly the correct recipe for UNO's, I use it to make the thin
    crust plizzetta's that they serve.  It's pretty close imo. Just be 
    cautious because it can burn easily around the edges:
    
     2 cups flour
     1 cup cornmeal
     1 package of yeast
     1 TBSP sugar
     1/4 cup olive oil
     1/2 tsp salt
     1 cup water (110 - 115 degrees, temperature is important)
    
     Add sugar to water, add yeast and stir well.  Allow to sit for 10
     minutes. Small bubbles should have formed indicating the yeast is
     active.
    
     I use the KitchenAid to mix the dough, you could also do it by hand, 
     but it will take twice as long.
    
     Add all dry ingredients to the bowl, add yeast mixture and olive oil.
     Stir well until the mixture forms a loose mass and no dry bits
     remain.  Using the dough hook,  knead the dough for 5 minutes on
     setting 2 or 4 with the mixer.  Place into a medium size bowl sprayed
     with a nostick cooking spray. Cover tightly with plastic wrap, and
     place it in a warm area to rise for 2 hours. (If you knead the dough
     by hand, do it for 10-12 minutes).
    
      I usually place it on top of my oil furnace in the basement,  it's 
     pretty much consistently at ~80 degrees and the dough always rises 
     well.
    
      I usually cut the dough into pieces the the size of small baseballs, 
     and roll it or stretch it out thin to about 9-10 inches.  You can use 
     the dough in it's entirety to make a thick crust pizza also.  I recommend
     the use of a pizza stone to bake the pizzas.  Here's one of my favorite 
     recipes:
    
     Preheat oven with stone in it to 450 degrees for ~1/2 - 1 hr.
    
     Roll a thin crust from the dough to desired size.  Fold the crust in 
     half and transfer it to a pizza peel coated with a little cornmeal,
     and unfold it.  Brush the surface of the crust with a generous amount
     of pesto.  Slice up 1 or 2 plum tomatoes into 1/8" slices, and arrange 
     them on the pizza.  Sprinkle with hot pepper flakes if desired, then 
     sprinkle generously with shredded parmesan (Parmisiano Reggiano is the 
     best).  Bake for 8 - 10 minutes, or until the crust is golden brown
     around the edges.  You can optionally drizzle the pizza with extra
     virgin olive oil before placing it in the oven.  You can embellish
     this basic recipe however you'd like.
    
     NOTE: Be generous with the corn meal on the peel, it's whats going to
     allow the pizza to slide off of the peel onto the pizza stone.
    
      Lv

    >But I do have a problem with simply copying recipies verbatim out of a 
    >published book.
    
    It's not like it hasn't been done before--this conference is full of
    recipes that were taken, verbatim, from cookbooks.  *Of course* that
    doesn't make it right.  But why the fuss now? 
    
    Most folks, when copying a recipe directly from a published source,
    make an effort to include the source (title, if book), author, and
    ISBN.  If you think about it, that sort of attribution is a form of
    publicity for the cookbook author.  Providing the source info makes it
    easier for interested folks to go and buy the book itself.  I've
    purchased a number of cookbooks based on information provided (eg, a
    sample recipe and author attribution) in this notesfile.  And yes, the
    Frug's cookbooks are among them.
    
    Now, recipes from published sources that are posted without
    attribution/sources are another matter...
    
    Sue