Conference turris::cooks

In one of the cooking magazines I recently read an article by Barbara Kafka
(I think), that discussed amongst other things the discovery of salmonella IN
eggs.  She said this would preclude the making of meringues, custards, mayo,
mousse, etc. at home.  Now I understand mayo and mousse that don't get cooked,
but wouldn't the custard and meringue in the pie asked for in .0 be cooked
enough to kill off any possible salmonella contamination???

To .0, sorry I don't have a recipe, but this question has been in my mind since
reading the article, and your request hit the 2 major foods I thought would be
safe...

				-JP

    re .0: 
    
    The recipe you want is listed on the box of lemon pudding and
    pie filling.  It's very straightforward --  lemon pudding
    (using the American definition of the word) is based on lemon juice
    and rind, sugar, and corn starch (the translucent thickener).
    
    I believe Joy of Cooking has a scratch version of the recipe.
    
    					andrew

    I've yet to try it, but the Betty Crocker Cookbook also has the recipe
    you're looking for.  I admit to being a little puzzled, though.  I've
    never even seen the kind of lemon merengue pie you're *not* looking
    for.  Opaque filling?  Like it has milk in it or something?  Maybe I've 
    been "lucky" but I've never come across it.
    
    Susan

    
    re: .1 
    
    It was Babs' column in Gourmet last month.  She claimed that baking
    meringue--as in the pie topping--doesn't heat the egg whites enough to
    kill the salmonella. The same goes for some sauces and "boiled"
    custards, (which are never supposed to boil.)  If you are unwilling to
    accept the risk, the only solution is to avoid these foods.  
    
    The "transparent" lemon meringue pie is no problem, since it is
    thickened with corn starch. But, would a substitute whipped cream
    topping be too horrible? 
    
    re: .0   Joy of Cooking has the classic recipe, and I've seen it
    printed on boxes of Argo corn starch. 
    
    Mike.

    re -1:
    
    >The "transparent" lemon meringue pie is no problem, since it is
    >thickened with corn starch. But, would a substitute whipped cream
    >topping be too horrible? 
    
    Yes, it would be too horrible.
    
    An alternative to a lemon meringue pie, where the lemon pudding and
    meringue are separate, is a lemon chiffon pie, where the pudding
    is folded into to meringue, creating a filling similar to a lemon
    mousse.
    
    					andrew

    There is a very good recipes on the side of Kings or maybe it's
    Kingsford cornstarch.   Next time you are the grocery store check the
    side of a cornstarch box.....Just a thought.

     RRG

re: salmonella scare

I was going to get excited about that...but then realized I've never even
known anyone to have any problems with the eggs in meringues or custards,
and I've been around for 43 years.  I'm going to risk it.  If you are
really concerned about the risk, you could replace the normal meringue
toping with poached meringue "bubbles" I suppose - same taste but different
texture.  

If the risk hit someone around here, I'd be more concerned.

    Okay, gang, I need some help on this one.  I'd like to make an 
    APRICOT meringue pie, tart like lemon meringue but with yummy
    apricot filling instead.  I thought I'd use cooked dried apricots
    and some lemon juice, but I have no idea how to get it smooth and
    sweet and tart like lemon meringue pie.  Dian, any ideas?
    
    Thanks --
    
    Peigi

seek and I'm here:

okay.  Cook dried apricots in just enough water to moisten well, a teaspoon
or so of fresh lemon juice (add tartness) over low heat until sorta mushy.
cool a little and puree in a blender or food processor or push through a
food mill.  Measure the puree.  For each two cups of puree:

	1) measure 1 tablespoon unflavored geletin (or use a packet
	   of KNOX unflavored gelatin) into 1/4 cup cold water and
	   stir to soften the gelatin.  Add to 1/4 cup HOT water and
	   stir over low heat to dissolve.  Add to puree, stirring well.
	   Fill baked pie shell and chill until firm.  Top with whipped
	   cream or meringue.

	2) you can also use corn starch - approx. 3 tablespoons per
	   2 cups of puree.  Mix cornstarch with enough wate to make
	   a paste, add approx. 1/4 cup water total, mixing well.
	   stir cornstarch/water mixture into puree and heat until
	   the color is clear again over low heat.  The puree should
	   begin to thicken during this process.  Cook until thick
	   enough to coat a spoon well.  Pour into baked shell and
	   cool to thicken. Top with meringue or whipped cream.

My suggestion for those looking for a slightly sinful version of this pie...
stir 1 cup whipped cream into either of the two filling above when the
filling is well cooled, but not solidified yet.  Then pour into pie shell.
Top with sweetened whipped cream rosettes.

CAVEAT:

suggestions and quantities are approximate.  If the puree is thick enough,
use little or no thickener.  Have fun and let us know the results.

another suggestion for the apricot meringue pie:

a splash of liqueur would not be inappropriate here.  Perhaps a little
amaretto (or almond extract), or maybe something orange flavored...
this is fun...I'm going to have to throw a dinner party and taste test
this little jewel on my favorite "tasters".

I'm leaning to the amaretto, myself.....

    There are apricot liqueurs -- however, not everybody enjoys alcohol
    in their food -- I wonder if you could burn off the alcohol, and
    keep the essence?
    
    					andrew

>    There are apricot liqueurs -- however, not everybody enjoys alcohol
>    in their food -- I wonder if you could burn off the alcohol, and
>    keep the essence?
    
Actually, the last time I was in Boston I read an article in the paper that
reported lab tests that showed very LITTLE alcohol burned off when cooking
with wine or liquor, etc.  The exact opposite of the claim made for years
by French chefs, etc.  I would hesitate to use any alcohol in food served
to those who don't want it or shouldn't have it.   I would use flavorings
if the liquor was a problem.  Suggestions might be:

	almond extract for amaretto
	orange extract for contreau (spelling is in doubt here)
	mint extract for creme de menthe (add a drop of green food coloring
					  if replacing the green stuff)
	coffee flavor/strong black coffee or expresso for Kaluah
	apricot syrup for apricot liqueur
	strawberry syrup for strawberry schnapps
	etc.

If adding only flavorings rather than the liqueur, you may need to add
some additional juice or water to make up liquid volume.  Play it by ear,
I say.

RE:  <<< Note 2560.4 by CSCOA5::ANDERSON_M "He was obsolete as promise" >>>

    
    >It was Babs' column in Gourmet last month.  She claimed that baking
    >meringue--as in the pie topping--doesn't heat the egg whites enough to
    >kill the salmonella. The same goes for some sauces and "boiled"
    >custards, (which are never supposed to boil.)  If you are unwilling to
    >accept the risk, the only solution is to avoid these foods.  
    
    My wife has done quite a bit of reading about the salmonella risk,
    since she loves to cook and has been very concerned.  She says that
    several authorities she's read stated that a temperature of 160 degrees
    is sufficient to kill any salmonella bacteria.  I don't know how hot a
    meringue gets in the oven, but I'd bet it's hotter than 160.  And I
    KNOW a "boiled" custard gets hotter than that, even if it doesn't
    actually boil.
    
    So what's the story?  Is the 160 degree number wrong, or is the author
    of the article mentioned above wrong?
    
    BTW, thanks for the pointer to Joy of Cooking.  Pat says she'll check
    it.
    
    Steve

    
    re: -1. 
    
    My only intent was to clarify what Barbara Kafka had to say about
    salmonella, etc.  I personally don't get too worked up about salmonella
    and since meringue and homemade mayonnaise aren't staples at my house,
    the issue really doesn't come up often. My guess is that your wife's
    documentation is correct: Barbara has been wrong before.   

If I remember my bacteriology correctly, 160 degrees Fahrenheit is sufficient
to kill salmonella.

--PSW

    Re: non-alcoholic flavorings, I'd add a wee bit of orange zest to the
    apricot puree, and would consider putting a few toasted almond slivers
    on the top of the merangue.  And a drip or two of almond flavoring in
    the merangue.  
    
    Hoo boy the old taste buds are getting happy just thinking about it!
    
    Peggers

    Okay Folks, I really need some help with my Lemon Meringue pies. I have 
    been making them for years and have always found them to be quite a 
    surprise. One I made a few months ago was very nice, not runny and held 
    together well. The one I made over the weekend, created a flood on the 
    dining room table as I cut the first piece. I had to take it into the
    kitchen and drain it into the sink.

    Fortunately, it was only the kids and their SO's, but I had to re-live
    the pair of pies I made ten years ago that leaked all over the back of
    the car and ruined my husband's corduroy jacket. ;-)

    I made the crust, cooled the crust, made the pudding, cooled the pudding,
    added pudding to crust, cooled naked pie on counter. Made the meringue, 
    added meringue to pie, baked at 325 for at least half an hour, cooled pie 
    on counter before placing in fridge.

    Any ideas what might be going wrong?


    michele