Conference turris::cooks

                      <<< Note 2173.0 by HKFINN::KALLAS >>>
                                -< Visionware >-

>>    I received a set of Corning's Visionware cookware for Christmas
>>    and am unsure whether I want to keep or return them.  According
>>    to the pamphlet in the box, food cooks more rapidly in these
>>    pots and pans.  It sounds as if I could be burning things dry
>>    constantly if I wasn't very careful.  Does anyone else have or
>>    like/dislike Visionware? thanks.
    
I HATE THE STUFF! Your right, you will burn alot of things. The heat 
distribution is awful. I would return the entire set, take the money and go to 
Lechmere and purchase one good LeCreuset casserole.


...chuck
who_is_still_waiting_for_ROBERT_B._PARKER's_"Spenser_Cookbook"

    I had some when we got married.  But, being the typical bachelor, I
    don't think it had ever been used.  The only thing Pat has been able to
    do with it successfully is boil water.  No matter what food she puts in
    it, it burns.  She hates the stuff.
    
    .-1 probably had the best idea:  go trade it all in for one good Le
    Creuset!

    I have one piece that was a "free gift" from Sears.  I only use
    it for things that have lots of water in them.  Otherwise it
    burns things really well.  Try getting burnt pudding off it - 
    UGH!
    
    Take 'em back.
    
    --Louise

    Hi,  
    
    I use it daily and have had no problems.  I guess the secret is to turn
    the heat down and relax why the meal is cooking.  I have an electric
    range but am sure the gas would be much easier to adjust.   My niece
    destroyed a complete set in less than one month.  She was forever
    filling a hot pot with cold water to soak.  Shattered each and every
    piece in the set!
    
    As far as getting burned pudding (or burned anything for that matter) 
    off cookware, wait til the pan cools, add water and dishwasher detergent.  
    Let set overnight and in the morning it wipes clean.  It has worked for 
    me on many different pans (aluminum, copper, and yes, even visionware - my
    daughter put potpourri in it one night and forgot about it).  
    
    Visionware vs. others  -  I went from CHEAP aluminum to visionware so I
    don't know how really expensive cookware handles in comparison.  I can
    only say it works well for me and it's better than what I had.
    
    -g

    Since Visionware doesn't appear to be a wise choice after reading these
    replies, does anyone have any suggestions or opinions regarding the
    "BEST" cookware to buy?  I'm in need of purchasing new
    Cookware/Bakeware and I'm not sure which brand to buy.
    
    
    Thanks.
    
    Robin

    You might want to try Faberware, I have every piece imaginable and
    it's great. I got all my pieces from Lechmere. Just a thought!
    

Whatever brand, by all means get good aluminun lined with "Supra" non-stick 
surfaces. The brand that I'm partial to is LEYUSE(sp?). They are great. You can 
put them in the oven as well because they have heavy duty aluminum handles (as 
opposed to plastic). You can get 8",10" open fry pans, sautuse(sp?) pans, sauce 
pans,etc. For boiling pasta, I would recommend a stainless steel(the only use 
for stainless steel in the kitchen), pot that has a basket inside that lifts 
out, and has a steamer for vegtables. For all of your casserole needs, there is 
NOTHING but LeCreuset.     

For your cutlery, an excellent choice would be J.A. Henkels(4 star).




...chuck

    I just bought my father some Visionware frying pans that are lined with
    SilverStone to prevent sticking. Maybe this is the optimal solution.
    
    Debbie
    

    I'd go for Farberware anytime; I wish I could afford Calphalon,
    but that's the way it goes.  The Farberware pans I bought when I
    graduated from college 10 years ago still look like new and work
    beautifully, and I use them every day.
    
    As for knives: Wusthof Tridents!
    
    --Karen

    Obviously, this is pretty individual!
    
    I *HATE* Faberware.  The heat distribution is much worse than with
    Visions by Corning.  I like my Visions (I do not have a complete set,
    though).  If you read and follow the directions for use, you will have
    not problems.  You do, however, have to be especially careful when
    using milk in them.  The heat distribution is not bad - it is
    exceptionally good, and heats VERY quickly and evenly.  If you're a
    cook who doesn't like to watch over your food, or is easily distracted
    by other things, then take it back.
    
    For my money, Master Chef is the only way to go!  Next best would be
    Calphalon.  I also *hate* non-stick coatings such as silverstone,
    supra, teflon, etc.  Give me a good old stainless steel-lined aluminum
    pan and an SOS pad any day!  With non-stick, you have to worry about
    your cleaning materials, your utensils, getting it too hot.  And I've
    yet to see one that didn't get intense hot spots (maybe some of your
    with brand-new cookware can enlighten me, though).
    
    The reason I hate Faberware (and Revere ware) is because of the hot
    spots.  It is stainless over a thin aluminum bottom.  Master Chef is
    solid aluminum - bottom and *sides* - with stainless coating. 
    Obviously, it is quite heavy!  It's also very expensive, and I wouldn't
    trade one 8-inch saute pan for an entire set of Faberware.
    
    BTW, I use my large Visions fry pan for make a *wonderful* baked
    pancake.  It comes out perfect every time.
    
    It's all in how you cook, and what your personal preferences are.
    
    Susan
    
    PS:  Ditto the Henckels cutlery, and a vote for both Sabatier and
    Chicago (although Chicago is non-treated carbon steel, and causes black
    streaking on dishcloths).
    

My 2 cents...

I agree with .10, the non-stick surfaces require too much care.

However I disagree with the SOS pad on stainless or aluminum.
Give me well seasoned CAST IRON any day.  I find it easier to
clean than the non-stick and if you *must* resort to the more
drastic cleaners you can repair (reseason) it.

Granted, it's heavy, but so is any of the other "good stuff".

Walt

    
>>    For my money, Master Chef is the only way to go!  Next best would be
>>    Calphalon.  I also *hate* non-stick coatings such as silverstone,
>>    supra, teflon, etc.  Give me a good old stainless steel-lined aluminum
>>    pan and an SOS pad any day!  With non-stick, you have to worry about
>>    your cleaning materials, your utensils, getting it too hot.  And I've
>>    yet to see one that didn't get intense hot spots (maybe some of your
>>    with brand-new cookware can enlighten me, though).
    
Once you season "supra" properly, there's no need to ever put soap in the pan 
again. You simply run hot water in and out of the pan. If something is still  
in the pan after you do so, then you can use one of those orange sponges(with 
just water) to get it clean. Stainless steel, is ONLY good for boiling pasta 
and steaming vegtables.
And with aluminum pan, there are NO hotspots. You only get those with Stainless 
steel!

BTW- That's what the pro's use!    



...chuck

    I would like to add my 2 cents worth:
    
     Faberware is the way to go.....  The first 8 years of my marriage
     I had every set imaginable but then someone told me about Faberware.
     I purchased them 10 years old and they do not look any older now
     then when I bought them.   
    
     You have to take a little time cleaning them to make them look
     like new but that's only a minute of your time.
     I bought a stainless steel and Aluminium cleaner, you wash
     the pan then put some of the powder in the bottom scrub and then
     rinse.  It will look like new again.....
     
     Good luck in whatever you buy.....
    
    

    Here's my nickles worth.
    
    I prefer waterless cookwear.  It's strong, durable, easy to clean and
    food doesn't stick.  Unfortunately you cannot buy it in any store.
    It is strictly home sales.  There are many brands available 
    including SaladMaster.  Check out home shows to see other brands.
    I love mine.  The only other pans I would be interested in would
    be Belgique or Calphelon.  Both are on the same idea, heavy pans
    that are durable.
    
    My cutlery is CUTCO.  Made in the US and, again, sold via home
    sales only.  High carbon steel.  Good gurantee.  Beats Henkel
    and Wustaf by a mile.
    
    Visionware double boiler is the only piece that is really any
    good since you are only boiling water and the water is heating
    the food.  Works well for melting chocolate, but you have to
    keep a close eye on it.
    
    Linda
    who LOVES to cook 
    

    We have CUTCO cutlery also, and it's the best I've ever seen.
    The serrated blades are especially good, since they have a different
    way of serrating them - can't explain it but it works very well
    for cutting fat and gristle off raw meat.  We also have some 
    Lechmere-grade knives, and they don't hold an edge like the Cutco
    ones do.
    
    --Louise

    I received a set of Visionware for Christmas last year and my opinion
    is that I can take it or leave it.  My SO is a bodybuilder and eats a
    ton of pasta, so I use them alot for boiling macaroni etc, and it ends
    up sticking to the bottom every single time!  They do clean up well
    though, just wait till they cool, add some water and let it sit for
    awhile and it wipes clean!

    
    My 10 cents worth (inflation you know).
    
    I don't recomend a set of anything.  Buy the pot or pan by function.
    I love my large Farber pot for pasta and soups, my cast iron fry pans
    for frying chicken, my teflon fry pan for eggs and omlets, my corning
    for veggies (both stove top and microwave), and all the other misc pots
    and pans that I have. Recently I recieved the Joyce Chen Peking Pan, it
    has some kind of nonstick surface, but I was pleased with the results.
    
    I would really think about what I was going to cook and then shop for
    the right pan.

    RE: .12
    > And with aluminum pan, there are NO hotspots. You only get those with
    > Stainless  steel!

    > BTW- That's what the pro's use!
    
    I doubt that *all* the pros use the same thing in any case, but I've
    always been under the impression that the real pros tend to use solid
    copper, not aluminum.
    
    RE: .14
    > My cutlery is CUTCO.  Made in the US and, again, sold via home sales
    > only.  High carbon steel.  Good gurantee.  Beats Henkel and Wustaf by a
    > mile.
    
    I disagree.  We've got both CUTCO and Henckels Four-Star.  By and
    large, we prefer the Henckels.  One of the big disadvantages of CUTCO
    is that you have to send it back to the manufacturer to get it
    sharpened.  Our Henckels just get bundled up and taken to our favorite
    mall knife store for sharpening every January.  An hour later we have
    them back.  For that reason, they stay sharper.  The CUTCO stuff always
    stays dull for quite a while before we get the time/energy/inclination
    to pack it up and do without it for a month while it goes back for
    sharpening.
    
    RE: .17
    
    > I don't recomend a set of anything.  Buy the pot or pan by function. 
    
    Our theory exactly!  We have some solid copper for cooking delicate
    sauces, gravies, etc.  We have Le Crueset for cook-all-day types of
    dishes (Bolognese sauce for example, or red beans and rice).  We have
    plain ol' cast iron for cornbread (yes, we're Southern through and
    through).  We have Revere Ware for run-of-the-mill things that don't
    need special treatment (like pasta).  And we have the Visions that I
    brought into our marriage, which Pat reserves for boiling water (it
    really is nice for steaming vegetables since you can see how much water
    is left).  Then we also have a steel wok for stir-fries.
    
    'Bout the only thing we don't have is aluminum.  Pat got a gift back 15
    or 20 years or so ago of Club Aluminum, and it completely turned her
    off on aluminum cookware.  I know today's anodized stuff can't be
    compared to the aluminum cookware of 20 years ago, but after that
    experience she just collected other kinds of pots and pans and never
    bothered to give aluminum another chance.
    
    Whatever you decide, good luck!

    Try frying an egg in the Visionware frying pan!  What an experience!

    Thanks for all the suggesetions.  Now, one last question, I've narrowed
    down my choices to Calphalon and LeCreuset so could anyone give me an
    idea of the price.  I'm not looking to purchase a set right away and
    I'm sure these come piece by piece.  Does one have to go to a kitchen
    speciality shop to purchase these brands or are they available at
    a discount store such as Lechmere?  If so, I'd be more than willing
    to wait for a sale.
    
    Thanks again
    
    
    -R

    Buying either the Calphalon or LeCreuset piece by piece will be
    very expensive..  You can buy Calphalon at Jordon Marsh (prices
    are good compared to other places like Lechmere) but who am I to
    say I get 25% off..because I work there.  The Calphalon 10 piece
    set runs $279 and if you bought the pieces seperate it would run
    you $450..  Just another thing to think about...
    
    Steve
    

My sister and her husband drove to Florida last year for a vacation.  On the way
down, somewhere around South Carolina/Georgia (ya know, south of the city, north
of the beach), she found a Le Creuset factory outlet.  Since she had recently 
shopped for a couple of pieces for wedding presents, she found the prices were
generally 50-70% of the going rate in New England.  She bought me the BIG dutch
oven with lid, the big covered casserole(? not sure of the name, but it's like
a covered, medium deep skillet with no handle), and the big gratin pan.   They 
do mail order, but I don't know the address.  Maybe someone out there can help.

       re .22:
       
       There's a Le Creuset outlet store in Charleston, SC.  (Dunno
       whether it's the one your sister saw, or if they're as omnipresent
       as Stuckey's used to be.)
       
       --Mr Topaz 

    
    No-one seems to have commented on cooking with copper pans, so here's
    my input.
    
    I have five heavy (and therefore they were expensive!) copper pans: 
    two small and two large saucepans and a saut� pan.  After three
    years I think they've been well tested, and so here are my comments:
    
    Nothing better for cooking with, heats up quickly and retains heat
    once gas is turned off, so they're economical to use.  Sauces, etc
    rarely burn - in fact they make sauce-making much easier than any
    other pan I've come across.
    
    The negative side is cleaning.  Although they are extremely easy
    to clean inside, cleaning the copper to keep it looking clean and
    bright is a drag; I'm sure all those kitchens one sees in photographs
    with shiny copper pans are not used by serious cooks!  
    
    Although I enjoy cooking with my copper pans, I am seriously wondering
    about buying some good quality stainless steel - at least the pans
    would go in the dishwasher!
    
    One thing to watch out for when buying copper pans: ensure they
    have a thick lining - so many of my friends have copper pans which
    are now purely decorative because the linings were too thin and
    deteriorated.  I believe unlined copper is unsafe to cook with.         
                                                                   
    Jacquie                                                               

  Aside from the tarnishing problem (if it bothers you), the main
  disadvantage of copper is that it's expensive. The only other problem
  was that tin-lined copper would eventually need re-tinning, but now
  several companies make stainless-lined copper. I'd just love to have a
  few of these, but it's pretty hard to justify the expense, especially
  since we already have some good cookware.

    RE .24
    
    I have had copper bottom pans for ages and they are cleaner and
    shinier (sp) than my other pans and actually much easier to keep
    clean.  I use Cameo which is a copper cleaner, I believe made by
    Revere,  that you sprinkle on the wet
    bottom and wipe off.  Hit with a SOS or Brillo pad and you have
    a beautiful shine.  You can also use a combination of salt and vinegar
    in place of the Cameo.
    
    Flo

>Note 2173.24                   -< Copper anyone? >-

>
>    Nothing better for cooking with, heats up quickly and retains heat
>    once gas is turned off, so they're economical to use.  Sauces, etc
>    rarely burn - in fact they make sauce-making much easier than any
>    other pan I've come across.

Pat has had her solid copper cookware since about 1975, and we both  agree
totally.  It isn't the only cookware we have, so we don't use it all the time,
but when we're cooking something that burns easily there's absolutely nothing
that will compare with it.  We also enjoy using it when we have company for
dinner, since it looks so good on the stove.  :^)

>    
>    The negative side is cleaning.  Although they are extremely easy
>    to clean inside, cleaning the copper to keep it looking clean and
>    bright is a drag; I'm sure all those kitchens one sees in photographs
>    with shiny copper pans are not used by serious cooks!  
>    

Pat and I are both serious cooks.  In fact, I think many if not most professional chefs use
solid copper.  She  just polishes ours with Twinkle when she takes it out of the
dishwasher.  It looks great, and if you do it every time the polishing takes
very little elbow grease.

>    Although I enjoy cooking with my copper pans, I am seriously wondering
>    about buying some good quality stainless steel - at least the pans
>    would go in the dishwasher!
>    

Gracious, Pat has been putting our copper pans in the dishwasher since she got
them about 15 years ago!  Why do you wash them by hand?

>    One thing to watch out for when buying copper pans: ensure they
>    have a thick lining - so many of my friends have copper pans which
>    are now purely decorative because the linings were too thin and
>    deteriorated.  I believe unlined copper is unsafe to cook with.         
>                                                                   

Ours have been re-tinned twice so far.  Well, actually, some of them have -- no
need to have a lining replaced in a pan that doesn't need it.  We send them off
to a place in New York that does a beautiful job.  Yes, re-tinning is a
disadvantage of having copper, but weighed against the advantages we think
copper wins every time!

            <<< LYCEUM::DISK$NOTES:[NOTES$LIBRARY]CONSUMER.NOTE;1 >>>
              -< Consumer info exchange -- for Digital employees >-
================================================================================
Note 1796.0                     Visions Cookware                       3 replies
GRAFIK::BRASSARD                                     17 lines  19-JUL-1990 14:01
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    I'm just wondering if anyone has had any trouble with their
    'Visions' cookware by Corning Ware. Specifically the pots and pan
    with matching lids. I had mixed emotions about them and have recently 
    decided that I think they're dangerous.
    
    The other day, I was steaming broccoli and had put the cover
    on (since it seemed to be taking forever) and the Visions
    lid just exploded - all over the stove! It made a really 
    strange, almost loud, noice and I looked over and the whole
    thing was in pieces.
    
    Has anyone had anything like this happen to them? Should
    I write to them? Anyone have an address?
    
    Thanks!
    

    We have been using Visionware for several years with no problems.  They
    do warn you about the scratches and cleaning.  I do believe that
    Visionware pots run hotter.
    
    WS
    
    

    I had big problems with Visionware... It was  okay in the microwave but
    when cooking on the top of the stove I had to be exceptionally
    vigilant or stuff would burn in a heartbeat. I had to completely change
    my cooking habits to use it. I don't have it anymore because it all
    broke either during storage or usage. 
    
    
    Lynn
    
    

    I had a different problem with my Visions cookware. My daughter
    was emptying the dishwasher, and the Visions saucepan slipped out
    of her hand, landing on the kitchen floor.  Any other pan would
    have just made a loud clang, but the Visions pan shattered, embedding
    tiny pieces of glass in her foot.  We had to pick them out with
    tweezers.  I threw away the remainder of my Visions pans, and will
    never buy any more.  Accidents to happen, and I would rather have
    a dented pan than a foot full of glass!
    
    Cindy
    

    I think the biggest problem people have with the Visions cookware is
    that they don't use them properly.  We have a full range of the pots
    and pans and have used them and loved them for over 5 years.  They did
    take some getting used to, but once we got the knack of not overheating
    them we haven't had a problem with burnt/sticking food.  The other
    advantages I have found is that they can go from the stovetop to the
    refrigerator to the oven with no problem.  They can be used ontop of
    the stove, in the oven, and in the microwave.  I also like being able
    to see what I'm cooking without having to lift the lid.
    
    As far as breakage, yes they are more fragile than metal pans and they
    do take up more room since you really shouldn't nest them.  I have only
    cracked 1 in the 5-7 years that I've owned mine, and Corning replaced
    it free of charge.

>             <<< Note 2173.32 by SMARTT::MACNEAL "ruck `n' roll" >>>

>    I think the biggest problem people have with the Visions cookware is
>    that they don't use them properly.
>    [...] once we got the knack of not overheating
>    them we haven't had a problem with burnt/sticking food.

  I agree on your other points about advantages of Visionware, but
  "using them properly" simply doesn't permit you to do certain kinds of
  cooking that other cookware does. Specifically, I'm thinking of
  high-temperature sauteeing, such as you would do in a wok, or in a
  high-quality metal skillet. This technique is essential for certain
  dishes, such as those where you brown meats at very high temperature.
  Too low a temperature and you'll make the meat tough and won't get the
  pan "glaze" which is necessary later for making sauces. I've never
  seen ceramic or glass cookware succeed at this sort of dish, and don't
  personally feel that the other advantages offset this disadvantage.
  But that's just my opinion.