Conference turris::cooks

    note 141 in the gadgets notes file (OCTAVE::GADGETS) discusses
    this.
    
    ed

    Consumer Reports recently (this year) did a report on these. Definitely
    check that out. I believe they liked the Panasonic model best, but I'm
    not sure. I do know that the 2nd generation seems to be appearing and
    that they now produce loaves that are 1-1/2 lbs. rather than only 1 lb.

    I've been pleased with results from using the dough hook which 
    attaches to my Kitchenaid general-purpose mixer.  

    Yeah, but you can't just dump all the ingredients into the Kitchenaid
    turn it on and walk away and come back 4 hours later to fresh baked
    bread. :-) They are sort of tempting. I saw The Kitchen in the Pheasant
    Lane Mall has the Panasonic on sale for $250. I don't know if it's the
    newer model that does the larger loaves.

    What a coincidence! I'm new in this notes file and I got a
    brochure/recipe book for one of these in the mail yesterday. It's
    a DAK, it's the larger size (1 1/2 lb loaves) and it's on sale for
    $1.99. I'd be happy to interoffice mail it to you if you want it.
    
    Lisa

    I have a Panasonic bread maker and I wonder what I did without it. They
    are just great. You can adjust the ingredients to be exactly what you
    want ( me, I just love as much wheat and rye as possible). 
    
    One word of warning though; they can be very bad for your weight- all
    that fresh hot bread smothered in butter.
    
    I have had the machine for about a year now and am completely satisfied
    with it. It provides enough bread for 3 adults for 2 days.
    
    Go for it,
    
    
    Allan
    

       We got a DAK breadmaker a few weeks ago, and we love it. The
       breadmaker looks like a cousin of R2D2, complete with a clear
       glass dome.  To make the bread, you open the dome, dump in in the
       ingredients (yeast, flour, and everything else), then push a
       button.  The machine mixes and kneads the ingredients, lets the
       dough rise, repeats the knead/rise process, and then bakes it.
       Four hours later, a fresh, hot loaf is ready.  Or, you can dump in
       all the ingredients and then push a few buttons that will program
       the machine to have the bread finish at, say, 7 in the morning. 
       
       The breadmaker comes with a recipe book containing fifty or so
       recipes.  There are the standard white and wheat and French
       breads, as well as some interesting and unusual breads with lots
       of different types of flours and grains, breads with fruits and
       vegetables (blueberry bread, pumpkin bread), and a few
       particularly bizarre breads (chocolate bread and a bread made with
       just yeast, flour, and diet cola).  The shape of the loaf is more
       or less cylindrical, about 7-8 inches in diameter and maybe 10
       inches high.  The machine is a snap to clean: mostly just wiping a
       few crumbs out of the bottom and rinsing out the teflon-like
       baking cylinder. 
       
       I love the machine.  It's great both to have fresh, hot bread and
       to know exactly what ingredients are in the bread.  The biggest
       problem is having too much wonderful bread around the house (it
       tends not to last very long); the only other drawback is the
       fearsome noise that the machine makes when kneading the bread. 
              
       Our machine is from a mail order outfit called DAK industries --
       you can get their catalog by calling 800-888-7808.  I've also seen
       a Panasonic breadmaker at Jordan Marsh.  (Unlike the DAK machine,
       the Panasonic doesn't seem to have a see-through dome, so you
       can't watch what's going on.)  The DAK machine costs $199+$14
       postage/handling; I've seen the Panasonic on sale for about $250.
       
       If anyone has one of these beasts and has some good recipes,
       don't be shy about posting them here.
       
       --Mr Topaz 

    The earlier models of the bread makers only maade loavesabout a pound
    in size. I have seen a newer and more expensive ($400) Panasonic model
    which makes a bigger loaf, about a pound and a half. I'm inclined to
    wait until the newer models get a bit cheaper.
    
    Tamzen

       re .9:
       
       The DAK model produces a loaf that seems to have at least as much
       volume as a commercially-produced loaf.  The weight of the loaf
       would depend on the ingredients -- a loaf made with lots of
       non-white flour could weigh 3-4 pounds.
       
       --Mr Topaz 

    I recently picked up a Hitachi HB-B101 for $199 at Sam's Wholesale Club.
    Makes up to a 1.3 lb loaf.
    
    Did a side-by-side test with a friend's DAK.  Results appeard to taste
    about the same.  
    
    Convenience-wise, the Hitachi baking pan is sealed on the bottom, so it
    can be loaded and then placed in the machine (which avoids spilling
    stuff in the bottom of the machine).  The DAK has a hole in the bottom
    of it's pan, which is sealed during use with a gasket.
    
    The DAK makes round loaves, The Hitachi, square.
    
    Kak

    I have the DAK breadmaker and IT IS FABULOUS!!!
    
    NOT ONLY FOR MAKING BREAD.....last week I made a poppy seed strudel
    and this weekend, I made an apple strudel.  What a joy it is to
    have the dough come out perfect every time!!!
    
    Have any of you been contacted by DAK about a Bread Club?  I have
    and sent them my name.  I thought a monthly newsletter with recipes
    from all of the people who have purchased one would be great!
    
    I use any recipe in my machine...not just the one's that come with
    the machine!  My husband says that I made strudel and coffee cake
    just like his mom!  Thank god for small things!!!!
    
    I HAVE NEVER BEEN HAPPIER WITH A MACHINE I HAVE PURCHASED!  I love
    watching through the glass as IT works, not me!
    
    

    DAMARK now has the Welbilt Bread Machine (round one with glass dome)
    on sale now for $149.  That is the best price I've seen so far -- its
    just like the one which DAK has for $199. DAMARK can be reached at
    (800) 729-9000 (Item No. B-354-131334).
    
    I just received mine the other day, but am having an awful time trying
    to find bread flour (high gluten flour).  If anyone has any suggestions
    for finding this in the souther New Hampshire area, please send me mail!
    
    For any of you that have the round machine, you might call up Welbilt
    Appliances (New Hyde Park, NY -- I don't have the phone # handy) and
    ask for Customer Support for the ABM-100 Bread Machine.  Once connected,
    ask them to add you to the list for their newsletter.  They just sent me
    the last three issues and there were some excellent recipes in them for
    the machine.
    

    Rick, I don't know about bread flour, but I've gotten gluten at
    the Golden Grain health food store, on Rt 3 in northern Merrimack.
    (past tortilla flats restaurant, past the next light, look for a
    small shopping plaza on your left as you head north).
    
    --Louise

    I have purchased (recently) King Arthur Bread Flour at Market
    Basket in Hudson, NH.
    
    Val

Hi!

RE: 13

>    DAMARK now has the Welbilt Bread Machine (round one with glass dome)
>    on sale now for $149.  That is the best price I've seen so far -- its
>    just like the one which DAK has for $199. DAMARK can be reached at
>    (800) 729-9000 (Item No. B-354-131334).

I checked up on this.  If you look at the fine print on the DAMARK ad you will
find the ones they are selling are not new, but are USED.  They have been 
rebuilt by the factory.  I think the fine print says "factory serviced,
just like new".

My friend's Welbilt died.  He sent it in for repairs.  He got back a brand 
new one.  I think we now know what they did with his old one.

	Greg

    I know this topic is a little old, but I am considering the purchase of
    one of these wonderful machines....(especially since Bill Hunzeker
    posted all those great recipes!!)  so I am wondering if everyone who
    has a bread machine is still happy with their brand and does anyone
    care to offer any suggestions to which to buy.  
    
    Thnx.
    
    -Dotti

    Dotti,
    
    If you read some of the notes it appears Welbilt is NOT a good model.
    
    Well, I bought the WELBILT Bread Machine (looks like a white R2D2)
    because I got it on sale for $129.95 which is the best price I've
    seen yet.  Guess what.....I LOVE IT!!!  I've tried 4 of Bill's
    recipes and they are great even though they were written for a
    different model machine.
    
    I don't know how I ever lived without this contraption, of course,
    I said that about the microwave and the VCR, too.
    
    Sandie

FYI/FWIW, I've seen several models of Welbilt machines in stores.  One looks 
like R2D2, another like a more conventional machine.

Kak

    re:  .18 & .19
    
    
    Where did you buy your machine?  Are they available in catalogs only?
    I have only seen the $300 machines!
    
    Thanks.
    
    -Dotti
    

    Dotti,
    
    I live in California and got mine at Best Products.  I believe Best is
    like a Service Merchandise store.

    RE:.20
    
    Yes; the ones I saw (.19) were in a Service Merchandise store.
    
    If you have a membership wharehouse place where you are, you might
    check that out, too.
    
    Kak

    I just got a Service Merchandise catalog that has a Welbilt (sp?)
    listed at $99.  This one looks like R2D2.
    
    Sandy

    Sandy,
    
    I was just over to S. M. yesterday and they had 2 Welbilt machines, one
    was the R2D2-type ($159.99) and a smaller square-type that was $99.00. 
    I wonder if the catalog is selling the R2D2 as a sale item??  
    
    I'll have to watch my mail for the catalog....Where do you live?
    
    -Dotti

    You're right, I checked the catalog last night, and of course, the one
    I saw in the catalog was the smaller square kind.  I must have R2D2 on
    the brain for some reason!
    
    This catalog was sent to Derry.
    
    Sandy

    Thanks Sandy,
    
    I'm more interested in the R2D2-type...it has the cool down cycle among
    other things.  Maybe that will go on sale soon...
    
    -Dotti

	We gave my mom the R2D2 type for Christmas last year and she loves
	it!  Well, except for the fact that she ate practically a loaf of
	bread a day for a week!   Being able to set the time for the bread
	to be ready is wonderful.  Nothing beats waking up to the smell
	and taste of hot, fresh bread!

	Sue

    It's 07-Nov, and I just got a sale flyer from Service Merchandise.  The
    Wellbilt model is on sale again.  I believe it was $99.  I'm relieved,
    though, that not all the feedback has been positive-- since I just
    spent $189 to get a Seiko - yup, Seiko like the watches - from Home
    Shopping Channel.
    
    Any feedback/experience in here about that particular brand????

    I just got a catalog yesterday from DAK offering the "Auto Bakery" for
    $129.90!  Says originally sold for $279, then for $199, now because of
    a special volume purchase it's $129, plus $14 postage and handling.
    
    I've read this through and through for gotchas in the fine print, but
    this says it can produce up to a 4 1/2 pound loaf (174.4 cubic inches), 
    30 day risk free trial.  The catalog comes from DAK, not some other 
    go-between, and includes about 50 recipes.  
    
    They gave these numbers:
    
    800-DAK-0800 for credit card orders (24 hrs, 7 days)
    800-888-9818 for technical info only (6 am to 5 pm Pacific, Mon-Fri)
    800-888-7808 for any other inquiries (     "      )
    
    
    So, is this too good to be true?  Am I missing something?  Or have I
    just bought myself a Christmas present??
    
    Terry
    

    It is really true.  And after a year of ownership, I still love mine.
    I don't even regret paying $199 for it.  I use it to make pizza crusts 
    and pie crusts.  I also tried making pasta dough in it, but it really 
    complained...pasta dough is quite heavy.
    
    Best thing I ever bought for the kitchen!!!
    

    Well I think I'm convinced. This seems like the machine for me and I
    want to buy one. Has anyone got any up-dates on price/reliability/best
    buying location for the various models?
    Any information gratefully received.
    
    Thanks
    
    Neale

    Any news since 1991?!?!?!? on breadmakers??
    
    Rick

    Rick, I read through this string of notes earlier and was surprised
    that there hadn't been many recent comments.  Thought most people would
    have given in to owning a bread machine by now.  :^)

    We recently acquired the version of the Panasonic that makes the pound
    and a half loaf (don't know the model number offhand).  While I like
    it, I don't love it (yet) because of still being unfamiliar with the
    machine and not feeling comfortable using it.  This Panasonic in
    particular has a lot of different settings and can do a rapid bake or
    regular bake, as well as whole wheat and all the other types of breads.
    I still don't know what justified us in buying the larger model rather
    than the one that makes the one pound loaf but while in the store, I'm
    sure we must have had one or two good reasons.  :^)  My only complaint
    is that the recipe booklet that came with the machine seems to have
    recipes for making only the larger loaves of bread.  Our local library
    doesn't have any bread machine cookbooks but my coworkers have been
    nice enough to bring in their recipe booklets.  We plan on giving the
    machine a real trial run this weekend with attempting sweet bread as
    well as raisin bread.  I'm also interested in trying to make the dough
    for soft pretzels some one of these days!   
    
    Does anyone know if bread machines suck up a lot of electricity?  

    On more of a humorous note.  Don't attempt to make bread late at night
    if you are home alone and aren't used to strange noises.  This thing
    scared me to death a few nights ago - I thought for sure someone was
    breaking in.  Guess it will take a little getting used to!  :^)

>>    On more of a humorous note.  Don't attempt to make bread late at night
>>    if you are home alone and aren't used to strange noises.  This thing
>>    scared me to death a few nights ago - I thought for sure someone was
>>    breaking in.

	About to steal your dough, presumably.


	Di

    We also bought the larger model Panasonic, and have been using it for,
    oh I guess three months.  We love it!
    
    You're right, the recipes that come with the breadmaker are not very
    exciting.  We bought an auxillary book called Electric Bread.  All its
    recipes are given for both the small and large loaves.  The ones we've
    made out of that book have turned out better than the ones out of the
    Panasonic book.
    
    We've happened on an even better source of recipes, though.  We got one
    of those Dak advertisements in the mail, and it contains a whole raft
    of really *wonderful* recipes.  We've been going through that book, and
    everything we've tried has been outstanding.  Tomorrow morning at 7:00
    we'll have a fresh, hot loaf of Banana Wheat Bread, made with honey,
    fresh bananas, and poppy seeds.
    
    Last week for dinner one night, Pat made a loaf of white bread seasoned
    with garlic, onion, and Italian herb seasoning.  We used it to make
    sandwiches out of leftover meatloaf, and it was excellent.
    
    You'll find that you have quite a bit of leeway with the recipes for
    the breadmaker (contrary to what the literature tells you).  Pat has
    discovered that using 3 Tbs. of butter instead of 2 results in a
    softer, fluffier texture -- not as healthy I know, but it tastes
    better!  With the cheese bread recipes, try adding some onion powder,
    and in some of them you need to slightly increase the amount of cheese
    you use to get a strong cheesy flavor.
    
    Anyway, we've been enjoying our breadmaker immensely.  The only thing
    we haven't been able to come up with yet is a recipe for sourdough
    French.  If anyone has one, and is willing to post it, we'd certainly
    be grateful.
    
    Enjoy your breadmaker!
    
    Steve

My girlfriend claims that eating fresh bread all the 
time, i.e. bread which is still warm from the baking, is
bad for your stomach. This sounds like a crock of horse-
puckey to me.

Some of you out there must have been using your machines
for 2 - 3 years by now. Any alimentary ailments to re-
port?

One more thing - has anyone seen one of these machines
being sold in Europe, or even better yet, Germany?

    re:  .37
    
    Eating fresh bread that is still warm from the oven is bad for the
    stomach?  Never heard of it.
    
    In any case, I'll take my chances.  With real butter, too.
    
    
    Steve

    The only think I could think of she is referring to is the yeast. 
    Someone told me once not to feed yeast bread to my birds because the
    yeast would "swell up" in their crops and give them gas, pressure etc. 
    Upon investigation I discovered that after baking, the yeast is no
    longer alive so can't possibly cause this problem.  I eat fresh bread
    almost every morning out of my machine and have never had a problem.
    

    RE: .37  
    
    Funny, my mom used to tell us kids the same thing.  She claimed we
    would get stomachaches from eating too-hot baked goods.  Never
    happened, though...
    
    Personally, I think she was just trying to keep our hands off the
    goodies. 
    
    Sue

My spouse-equivalent gave me R2D2 (i.e., the big Welbilt bread machine :-) ) 
last Christmas, and we've been using it at least once or twice a week since
then, and it's been great!  We had to get used to the weird round loaves, but
that's a small price to pay for having fresh bread (which, incidentally, I've
been eating warm every time with nary a digestive upset).  I especially love
the timer feature - there's nothing like waking up to the aroma of baking
bread!

Because the Welbilt only comes with a few recipes, I've been using the DAK
ones that someone so kindly posted in note 2581.4 (no need to wait for a
DAK brochure to come in the mail :-) ), and they've been great.  Plus I bought
copies of "The Bread Machine Cookbook" and "The Bread Machine Cookbook II" by
Susan German (I think that's the name).  Barnes & Noble in Nashua, NH has those
books, for those of you in the area.

We like the bread machine so much that my spouse-equivalent recently gave one
to his sister as a house-warming present.

It still amazes me that these things even work, but I'm sure glad they do!

							-- Nina

What's that latest on these gadgets? Any new models or types?

I'll be coming over to the US in November and would like to pick one
up. Living in Germany, I can't do any product research so any infor-
mation anyone would care to share would be greatly appreciated.

Also, any technical poeple out there who might shed some light on
converting one of these things to 220 volt?

Scott 

    Linda made some apple bread in a bread maker.  I guess the recipe
    is to add the apple mix after the bread has risen once or twice
    so she did that and the machine didn't mix the apple very well
    so the next time she tried to add the goop before the first rising
    and then she went to a staff meeting which the bread maker cooked.
    Well there was a reason for adding the mix after the bread had had a
    chance to rise.  :-(  It rose out of its little container over
    the sides onto the heating coils, smoke, smoke, smoke.  We haven't
    gotten the charcoal out of the maker yet but I'll tackle that tonight
    and see if the whole thing isn't fried forever.
    
    Undaunted, Linda made apple bread her way but in bread pans yesterday.
    
    ed

<Also, any technical poeple out there who might shed some light on
<converting one of these things to 220 volt?

    Remembering my Military days in Italy, we seldom had problems with the
120 - 240v conversions (done with a simple transformer rated by power), where
we had the most difficulty was the 60hz to 50hz differences.  Typically the
timers were calibrated from the frequency of the power which meant that times
were over by 20% (set for 60 minutes would actually run 72 minutes). There were
also some difficulties in the operating temperature of the motors in units that
were designed for 60hz, but were using 50hz power.

   These problems didn't keep us from using US appliances in Europe, we just
had to adapt to the differences and accept a shorter lifespan on the unit.

Al

    continuing .43.  That bread oozed all over.  Yesterday morning I
    diassembled the bread maker and cleaned and reassembled everything.
    Unlike the days when I used to take apart and put together my father's
    watches, it worked when I got done.  I guess that's the difference
    between "dissassemble" and "take apart."  :-)
    
    There were no crumbs on the circuit board.
    
    ed

    I got the Welbilt R2D2 type about 2 months ago and I love it! I make
    bread all the time now. I've used a lot of the recipes the kind souls
    added into this notes conference and I love every one of them! Thanks
    everyone for entering the notes! Now I have a couple of questions. I
    don't think they have been answered elsewhere.
    
    I was thinking of giving loaves of bread as Christmas presents this
    year. My loaves come out funny looking sometime, still messing with the
    exact measurements of liquids and yeast. So I was thinking about having
    the machine do everything up to the final rising and baking. I thought
    about putting the dough in the smallish bread loafs and letting them
    rise and bake in there. But I don't know how long to let them rise and
    how long to cook them or how many it will make. Has anyone had any 
    experience with this? Do you think the large loaves of bread from R2D2 
    are too funny looking to give as gifts? They all taste delicious, just 
    look funny.
    
    Comments welcome!
    
    Next question, I've been looking in bookstores the the Electric Bread
    cookbook that has been mentioned. One bookstore told me they don't
    carry it any more because it was $30.00. I want to give it as a
    Christmas gift to someone that has the R2D2 machine. I don't mind
    spending the money if it is worth it. Does it answer the question that
    I asked above? Is it easy to follow for the R2D2 machine? Does it have
    lots of different recipes in it, and different things to do with the
    dough? The person that I want to give it to only has the booklet that
    came with the breadmaker. I've looked at some of the other bread machine 
    books, and some of them don't seem very easy to follow. Also, any 
    pointers in the Northern MA, Southern NH area on where I can find the 
    book. I haven't checked Barnes & Noble in Nashua yet. Planning to as
    soon as I get over to that part of the state. I'm also close to Keene NH.
    
    Thanks for any and all comments/suggestions....
    
    Betsy
    

For good bread machine cookbooks, try the 'Bread Machine Cookbook' by Donna? 
German.  I'm getting that from memory - hope it is correct name and title.  
This book has been mentioned in earlier notes in this conference.

There are two books (vol I & II), both about $8 each at most large 
bookstores.  They are small, elongated paperbacks, like a Garfield cartoon 
book, etc.

They handle all the major machines, including DAK, Welbilt, etc, and offer 
recipes in 3 sizes.  I've had very good luck with their recipes.

I have a DAK Turbo model and its great!  I just wish I would get more 
consistant yeast activity.  I use Rapid-Rise yeast by Fleischman and about 
1/2 the time it seems like the loaves don't rise very well.  I follow the 
directions to the letter.  ???

	-Al

I have the small (2 cups of flour maximum) welbuilt (sp?) machine.  It 
was working great.  Somewhere around mid to late summer,  the dough 
would rise about half way and then collapse, making a very small heavy
loaf.  I've been following the same recipies that I've always used and
it just doesn't occur on one type of bread but all of them.

I've tried running out and buying all new ingredients like yeast (thought
maybe it has gone bad), but it is still happening.

Any suggestions?
					Lisa-Marie

re: 46

I've also been contemplating buying Electric Bread, but just cannot justify 
the $25.00+ cost. 

re: 47

I second the recommendation for Donna Rathmell German's Bread Machine Cookbooks.
I've been using I and II for quite awhile and have just recently purchased III
and IV.  The recipes are delicious and the directions are straightforward.  She
also includes hints and troubleshooting suggestions for the various machines
which I find very helpful.

    rep -1
    
    	Sounds like the machine is giving out too much heat, thus
    	killing the yeast.

    re .47
    
    If you are using other than white flour, the bread will not rise as
    well. if all the flour is white, it should rise lots. If there is wheat
    or rye or cornmeal or oatmeal, it will not rise as well.
    
    Recipies that use the other flours should have at least half white
    flour, and will still rise less. Is this your problem?
    
    For cookbooks, I also recommend that Donna German. The Barnes and
    Noble on D.W. Highway in Nashua (near the state line) ordered mine
    and they were in in less than a week. No deposit, as I recall, so you
    should be able to just call them and they will call you when they
    are in.
    
    Enjoy,
    
    Bill
    

    Thanks for all replies. 
    
    .51 - I didn't know that about the different flours. That explains a
    lot. I had a lot of trouble with the last 3 loaves I made, I thought it
    was my yeast (I am still going to replace it). The first loaf had a
    oatmeal in it and only rose to have the size. I had made it before and
    it rose normally. The 2nd non-rising loaf was made with raisin bran
    cereal, that did rise a little more. The last loaf was mostly white
    flour, but with wheat as well. The tasted ok, but pretty solid.
    
    question on yeast - I bought one of those bottles of yeast, because I
    was making one or 2 loaves a week and those little packets were getting 
    expensive. A couple of hours before I make the bread I put the yeast
    bottle on the counter to get "room temperature". I think the in and out
    of the fridge so much has made the yeast go bad. Is that logical?
    
    Also, anyone have any directions/suggestions on how to rise/cook the
    bread in pans other than the machine?
    
    As you can probably tell from my questions, I'm not an experienced
    bread maker. (read - never done it from scratch) That's one reason
    I bought the bread machine. I love it!
    
    thanks for any more help from all you bread makers!
    
    betsy
     

    Betsy,
    
    Yes, I recognized early on that yeast was the most expensive part of
    the bread, so initially, I bought a jar of Fleischmans. Since we make
    at least a loaf a week and also make pizza every Sunday night, and I
    also threw a pizza party for my soccer league, I have bought a 2 lb
    bag of yeast (Red Star is the only brand I have seen) at a wholesale 
    warehouse (Costco in my case).
    
    I keep the bag in the back of the refrigerator and keep refilling the
    brown jar that the Fleischmans came in (I'm sure they wouldn't
    approve ). Since the yeast is such a small part of the total recipie,
    I never bother to pre-warm it. The very first thing I do, before
    I get any other ingredients out is to throw a scant Tablespoon of
    cold yeast into the bottom of the breadmaker - with a swirl, to spread
    it around as much as possible. I always use hot tap water - in the 115
    degreee range (watch out if your watter is any hotter than that - 
    I measured mine with a thermometer several times). Using water on the
    warmer side of the recommended range also helps offset cold wheat
    flour, which we keep in the refrig. My wife (a former Home-Ec teacher)
    says whole wheat spoils faster than white, and we don't use as much
    of it so it is around longer.
    
    I have been working off this 2 lb bag of yeast for 6 mos now and never
    had a problem. I never proof it, just throw it into the breadmaker
    (R2-D2 style DAK) first.
    
    For me,  Rasin Bran bread has been quite heavy too. I think it is
    characteristic to the recipie.
    
    By the way, some of my recipies call for cooking corn meal or oatmeal
    before adding to the bread maker. That is not necessary - you can throw
    it in dry, but it makes the liquid harder to judge. It will look too
    wet for the first 10-15 mins cause the meal hasn't had time to absorb
    all the liquid it needs.
    
    A general note for the uninitiated: since moisture content and results
    vary with the weather, I do a couple of things to help ensure success.
    
    1. If it is a high rising loaf, (3 c of white flour or more), I hold
    back on the water and keep adding the last parts of it while judging
    wetness of the dough. (see 2 below)
    
    2. The dough is right, if while mixing, none of it sticks to the
    bottom of the pan. You don't want to add more flour to get to this
    point or the loaf may hit the dome and can make a real mess.
    
    3. if using dry oatmeal or cornmeal, allow it to appear too wet,
    (initially - like the first 5-10 mins) cause the meal will keep soaking
    up water over time.
    
    Bill the bread (and pizza) maker
    

    Bill,
    
    Thanks for the info. I think I'll look into getting a bulk package too
    and not bother to "room temperature'ize" it before I use it.
    
    And thanks to all the others that suggested "The Bread
    Machine Cookbooks I, II, III, and IV" by Donna Rathmell German. 
    I bought 2 sets last night! One goes to step mom in Florida for 
    Christmas, one is mine! I scanned them in the store before buying them
    then really looked at them last night. I noticed one recipe in
    particular (I can't remember which one tho) that is in Volume I and
    Volume IV, with different measurements! I'll have to look more into
    that, I thought it was interesting, but by the time I got to volume IV
    last night, I was skimming again. They are very informative, each
    volume has different types of information in it and they review the
    most important stuff in each volume. It's answered a lot of my questions 
    (of course not as personally as you people in here did!) 
    At 10 last night I was tempted to try a new recipe! Resisted the 
    temptation tho. Will do one tonight when I get home tho.
    
    
    Thanks again, if I try and outstanding recipe and notice its not in
    the Bread Machine recipe note I'll add it.
    
    Betsy
    
    
    I noticed a recipe for Pita bread. One I definitely want to try. Of
    course, I'd like to start at the beginning and make each one!
    
    

    We've had our DAK Bread Machine for just about a year and we haven't
    bought any bread since!
    
    If you want to use a combination of bread machine/hand loaf, you can. 
    A recipe calling for 3 cups of flour would fit a standard 9x5 (?) inch
    loaf pan.
    
    However, I've given lots of loaves away fresh out of the machine.  I
    generally explain how to slice the loaf since most people are a bit
    baffled by the shape.  I've also given manual made loaves in my
    pre-machine days.  I don't think they looks that much better/different.
    
    As for the yeast, we buy a 1# package and store it in a jar in the
    freezer.  When we use it, we just spoon it out and into the machine and
    go on from there.  No waiting.
    
    I say "we", because my husband and I both use it.  Wonder what kind he
    made today....

    Well, because of the few failures I've had (bread not rising at all),
    my husband is an extreme skeptic about our bread machine.  He basically
    hates it.  And now that we (he) have a KitchenAid, he has made his own
    bread.  
    
    I will use my MK Seiko again.  I didn't use it all summer because I
    just don't think of baking in the summertime.  
    
    I just ordered the same make and model for my parents for X-mas!
    
    Rgds,
    marcia

I'm considering buying a machine but know nothing about the different features.
What features are available, and which ones would you recommend having?

>I'm considering buying a machine but know nothing about the different features.
>What features are available, and which ones would you recommend having?

IMHO - the larger size loaves are a plus - they go SOOOO fast that the
cook needs to be real quick unless the loaf is BIG.  I like the Panasonic
brand for that reason...also, get enough horse power to work with whole
grains too - some cheaper models just don't cut it....variations on white
gets boring and doesn't help the fiber content of your diet.

    It's good to have a timer too, so you can put the ingrediants in the
    night before, set the timer to start around 4 or so,
    and wake to fresh bread for breakfast!
    hannah

I've looked at some machines and the two most common ones in stores seem to be
the Welbilt 600 (for around $100), and the WElbitlt 100 (for around $150).
Is the 100 the "R2D2" model everyone keeps referring to?  There are also several
other more expensive machines.  The information on the boxes is really sketchy; 
it's impossible to compare features based on it.

I am considering buying the 600, and am wondering if this model has the features
you've mentioned (larger loaf, stronger motor, etc.)

--Laura

If memory serves me correctly, the Welbilt ABM600 is the model that makes a 
1-pound loaf in 2 1/2 hours.  The ABM100 (which I have) makes a larger loaf,
(1 1/2-pound) in around 4 hours.  I have heard through friends, however, that
heavier breads (whole grain, cinnamon-raisin, etc.) sometimes do not cook
completely when the short cycle is used, so you may want to consider a machine
with a longer cycle just to be safe, or one which has both a long and a 
short cycle.

    Hi,  I'm just wondering about what it typically cost to make bread
    using the bread maker.    If you buy all the ingredients for a type of
    bread, how much per loaf does the bread end up costing?   If there was  
    a previous note in here that indicates this please give me a pointer.
    
    Thanks,
    Sarah
    

    Sarah, it's hard to compute the costs of making your own bread because
    there are so many ingredients that one could use.  If you buy your
    yeast through King Arthur Flour in Vermont, you get it at a low cost. 
    If you buy your yeast through a grocery store in the individual
    packets, you pay at a very high cost.  The same holds true for many of
    the other ingredients -- plain white bread is cheap to make versus
    something like 8 grain bread with raisins.  Were you just curious about
    the cost of your basic white bread? 

    Actually, I was curious about the cost of all types of breads made. Is
    having the automatic bread maker really that great of an apliance
    because it is cheaper to bake your own bread, or is it just one of
    those appliances that while nice to have, takes up space that can be
    better used for something else.   I agree that I really enjoy bread,
    and to try to do it yourself I've never been successful, so I was just
    curious as to whether it is a worthwhile appliance.
    
    Sarah
    

>    so I was just
>    curious as to whether it is a worthwhile appliance.
    
why bake your own bread....hmmmm, well, try these:

	1) if you buy in bulk and bake regularly, you can make quality
	   loaves of bread for less
	2) you get no preservatives in your bread
	3) you get more variety of flavors and probably more fiber and
	   nutrients in your own bread
	4) you certainly get fresher bread

why not buy a bread maker?  well, if you kinda like the PROCESS, as I
do, a break machine isn't high on your list of appliances...I will get
one someday, I guess, but not yet.  However, when I don't have time to
bake myself, I pay premium prices for edible bread at the bakery or the
Bread of LIfe store - I'd save a great deal of money if I had my own
machine.

A bread machine is like a food processor or Kitchen Aid mixer - if you
do that kind of thing often enough, or prefer variety where it isn't
offered, then the tool is useful - however, as you may have surmised,
many folks stop baking bread and their machine takes up space for months
without use - only you can decide if it is right for you.
    

    I bake bread because it's a way of working off aggressive tendencies
    without anyone noticing.  Whap, wham, slam, take that!
    It has nothing to do with saving money and I like the flavors I
    can conjure up.
    
    ed, who just let out his secret.  :-)

    And there is nothing nicer than the smell of bread cooking.

    Our bread machine is definitely one of the most frequently used
    appliances in our house but my husband is the master bread baker in the
    house.  I've turned out a few bread bricks in the past so he has the
    honors now. :^)

    I would say the average cost of bread is about 35% cheaper than store
    bought but the biggest thing is the time savings.  I'd be stopping off
    at a grocery store two or three times a week, usually buying bread and
    maybe one other item or two.  Now I avoid those time consuming trips of
    standing in a checkout line buying two items while the woman in front
    of me is making out a check for $6 worth of groceries.

    One of the real justifications in buying a bread machine would be
    determined by how often you buy bread, or how much you like bread. 
    Another would be the ingredients (as mentioned earlier) and lack of
    preservatives.  Depending on the machine, the size of the loaf you need
    for dinner.  Not to mention, leftover crusty cuban bread turns out
    great french toast for the following morning, or bread pudding....

    I would say that the savings can be much greater than 35% if one buys 
    ingredients in other than grocery store quantities. The big cost is
    yeast. If you buy the triple packets or even the brown jars of
    Fleischmans, yeast will be the biggest part of the cost.
    
    I believe I am below $.50 a loaf now that I buy my yeast in 2 lb bags
    (for a few dollars at COSTCO). I'm sure most other food wholesalers
    have it also. The brand I have seen from wholesalers, and what I use
    is "Red Star". I bought a bag in the late spring and it is still 
    going strong. I have never had a yeast failure and have made
    many dozen loaves of bread and pizzas from it.
    
    Bill
    

    Caldors is advertising a Wellbilt bread maker on sale for just
    under $100. It's the square model that makes a 1 lb round loaf. 
    
    I've read through the previous  notes and see a couple of good
    comments and a couple of bad comments about the wellbilt.
    
    I expect the machine to get quite a bit of use but, like everyone
    today, I'm on a limited budget.  Is it worth the $100 investment or
    should I dig deeper and get a more expensive machine?  (Also why?)
    
    Your advice and opinions are requested, the sale ends Saturday.
    
    Thanks, Sandy
    

    For those of you that have a Panasonic....how much did you
    pay?
    
    Around the Atlanta area they are *on sale* for $369 for the
    large, normally $400 and $269 for the smaller version, normally
    $315.
    
    Did you all pay this much?  This just seems really high to
    me.
    
    Thanks, Kristen

    Hi Kristen this is Sasha I just bought a the Panasonic (1lb) at Riches
    on Sales for 222.00, and I believe it was the same price at Macy's at
    Gwinnett Mall.
    
    Hope this Helps,
    
    Sasha

I got a bread-maker for Christmas, and have a few (probably naive) questions.
I should probably wait until tomorrow so that I can provide the make and
model, but I'm impatient!  It makes large loaves - large enough so that you
could take one slice of bread, cut it in half and have a normal sized
sandwich.  It has a rectangular pan.  It will do whole wheat, sweet breads
and just dough.  It has rapid, light and crusty modes.  It has a yeast
dispenser on the lid - the yeast drops in after the first mix and during the
first "rest."

- Can a large bread maker be used to make smaller loaves?

- When using a bread maker with a yeast dispenser and a recipe that calls
  for adding all ingredients at once - should I use the dispenser anyway, or
  add the yeast with the other ingredients?

- Can you make sourdough bread in a machine that has a yeast dispenser?

Thanks for any help.

Debby

    Does any of our European readers know if these bread making machines
    are available in Europe yet ?
    
    A friend in the States has just bought her's and she's been raving about
    it for the last week and now I want one.
    
    Alan_who_is_currently_living_in_a_country_where_the_bread_goes_stale_in_
    less_than_a_day. :-(
                                                                        

> Alan_who_is_currently_living_in_a_country_where_the_bread_goes_stale_in
> less_than_a_day. :-(

Yes, but it's baked three times a day!

In any case, you mean you can't find a machine at one of those trendy
stores in the Balexert center? I thought they had everything ...

    >>Yes, but it's baked three times a day!
    
    Yes, but busy young executives don't have time to walk to the
    boulangerie three time a day. ;-) If the french could invent a baguette
    that stayed fresh and tastes as good as they do, I'll be very happy
    indeed.
    
    At the moment, all I want is a loaf of medium sliced white bread that will
    stay reasonably fresh for a few days.
    
    

    Alan_who_is_currently_living_in_a_country_where_the_bread_goes_stale_in_
    less_than_a_day. :-(
    
    it doesn't go stale.  they make it that way.  :-)
    
    ed

This isn't question... but some happy comments!

We just got a Panasonic Bread Machine and so far we love it.
It's the 1 pd, whole wheat w/timer model.  Cost about $190 from local
dept. store.  It was more than I wanted to spend, but I decided to go 
with the timer and whole wheat features.  The model that makes 1.5 pd
loaves was close to $300.

We've had the added pleasure of having house guests for Aug/Sept, and so we 
can make bread almost every day.  One loaf goes incredibly fast, especially
at dinner.  The best part is waking up to the smell of fresh bread.
A few flops - when we forgot to add water, yeast etc.
I found yeast at the whole foods store, MUCH less expensive.  About
$1.50 for about a dry cup!

The info in the file was very helpful is choosing the machine, and
for recipe ideas.   Having fun and getting fatter ;')   thanks,

Rachel

    That's the one my friend raves about, she has fresh bread waiting when
    she gets home from work and sometimes fresh bread in the mornings.
    
    I want it for the winter season. Imagine setting the timer so that when
    you get back from a hard days skiing, you can have tea and hot fresh
    cake. Ohhhh yummm.
    
    Alan.

    If I may make a recommendation........I was all set to buy a Panasonic
    after considerable shopping around when I heard of the Zojirushi 
    breadmaker (carried by Kitchen, Etc. and Jordan Marsh). Not only does
    it have all of the Panasonic features, it also has its own programmable
    "Home Menu" cycle that you can set with different rise times, etc. for
    a better yield with whole grain breads or your own favorite bread.
    
    The King Arthur flour people used to endorse the Panasonic machine, and
    have now switched to the Zojirushi. I can't say enough good things
    about mine; it's made one great loaf after another.
    
    There are two models -- mine is the top of the line at $269.
    
    Karen

    Yes, but I don't want one that is too complicated (not that I'm
    stupid), it's just that I don't like paying for features that I
    wouldn't use. Actually, I'd love to have the choice. I went on a
    shopping visit this lunch time to Placette (one of the bigger
    department stores in Geneva) and they had just one on offer, A Koenig
    for 594 Sfr ($414). Boy, did the pan inside look small or what !!!!
    
    Alan.

    Alan,
    
    I think what I like most about my machine is not all the bells
    and whistles, but the reliability of it. I have read (and heard)
    a lot of disastrous stories about ruined loaves of bread from 
    friends and in this notesfile due to temperature changes, variance
    in measurements, etc. 
    
    I have not had a problem with any of this -- the Zojirushi compensates
    for the humidity, etc. in your kitchen and consistantly comes up with
    winning results. I couldn't be more pleased, and as I indicated I paid
    $269, not $400.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Karen

I've only seen one model offered here in Germany, through a trendy and ex-
pensive mail order outfit. It's one of the Panasonic models (they don't
specify which) and they want about $300 for it which seems excessive.

(sigh)

Scott

    Lesse...a 1 lb load of bread costs about $2.00 (I buy the "premium
    brands" like Matthews and Vermont)...the ingredients for a homemade
    loaf of bread (regular wheat types with yeast and maybe egg or milk
    depending on what types) would cost, what, about $.25 if purchased in
    reasonably large quantities?
    
    As a single person, I go through a loaf of bread in about a week and a
    half (I keep it in the freezer).  That's about 30 loaves a year, or
    about $60 worth of bread.  So I might save $50 a year or so on bread.
    
    That means the bread maker would pay for itself in only - 6 years!! 
    What a steal!!
    
    Add in the fact that I could give bread as gifts, bring it as my
    contribution at parties and potlucks, etc...and maybe it would only
    take 4 years.
    
    D!

    good economics, D, but what about the cheapest option:
    making the bread the old fashioned way! My father-in-law does this 
    about once a month, makes a ton, and gives/barters/freezes it.
    great stuff.
    
    Monica

    Those economics work out even less well.
    
    I have previously worked out that I value my time at a rate of about
    $25/hour (that is somewhat more than I am paid - it is because I work
    so much that my "free" hours are *so* valuable - it means that, for 
    instance, I will drive an hour to save $25 on a purchase, but not for
    less.)  That varies, obviously, with the pleasure of the task taken in
    to account, etc...
    
    Baking bread is moderately fun, and I can do other things at the same
    time, but it does require me to be home for an entire afternoon, which
    I don't usually do, so I estimate the "opportunity cost" to me for
    bread baking at about $15/hour.  Four hours of bread baking therefore
    "costs" about $60 not counting ingredients or utilties.  Therefore I
    would have to bake about 25 loaves of bread during that four hours to
    break even - quite an impossibility.
    
    Sometimes I am in the *mood* to bake, in which case I consider it as
    *spending* those costly-hours in return for the fun - but "spending"
    them on the bread per se is not a good return for my investment.
    
    D!

Does the Zojirushi make 1.5 lb loaves?
How does it take into account humidity?
-Larry
    

    Larry,
    
    I have a Zojirushi and I can't say enough good things about it. It
    just keeps making one great loaf after another.
    
    Yes, it makes 1.5 lb loaves.
    It is temperature controlled so even during the hot spell this
    summer, I got totally acceptable loaves. The only concession
    I've ever made to weather has been to cut down the liquid during
    particularly humid days. Other than that, it usually has made a
    dough ball in the first five minutes of kneading, so you know
    immediately if you need to adjust anything (by adding a T. of
    flour or H2O) to cure a too wet or dry consistency.
    
    Also, I think it's important to get yourself a couple of _good_
    bread machine cookbooks and experiment. One that I have and use
    frequently is Lora Brody's "Bread Machine Magic - Perfect Every
    Time." It gives proportions for different brands so the end re-
    sult is just right for your machine.
    
    I have friends who have the Wellbilt and Panasonic top of the line
    machines, and they both think the results I get with my Zojirushi
    are better. 
    
    Hope this helps,
    
    Karen

Consumer Reports latest issue (Dec 93?) rates Breadmakers.
I think the top four (large) breadmakers were:
1. Regal Breadman
2. Zojirusi
3. I forgot
4. Panasonic (chopped the raisins up ... oh well)

Of the smaller variety (1lb makers I guess) the 
Panasonic was rated the highest.

-Larry

I'm thinking of buying my wife a breadmaker for Christmas, and I was wondering
about these working at altitude since we live in Colorado Springs, which is a
mile+ above sea level.

I know she has to do some modifications at this altitude (She lets the bread
rise in the fridge, etc.).  Reading through these notes, I'm leaning toward the
Zojirusi, since it does allow you to do some modifications to the normal timing
which could be helpful given the weirdness that the altitude causes...

I guess my major question, are there any bread machine people here in the
Springs?  Do the machines seem to work well at this altitude?  Any other sage
advice for making bread at altitude?

Thanks!

    Hi,
    
    My Zojurishi came with directions for using at high altitudes.
    
    FYI - December issue of Consumer Reports rated this machine no.
    2 overall. The only one rated higher - The Breadman - was for
    its special multigrain setting. I have done multigrain breads
    in my Zo with excellent results as well.
    
    Karen

    
    	We have the Breadman based on the Consumer Reports article, and we
    	have to agree with CR, this is an excellent machine. Some bread is 
    	being baked at home as we speak! :-) Locally we found the Trillium 
    	Breadman available at Filenes (both Nashua, NH and Natick, MA).
    
    	-Erik

    
    	We plan on purchasing a bread machine in the near future. One
    feature that we would like is for the machine to have a quick cycle
    (makes bread in about 2-2 1/2 hours), and a longer cycle (makes bread
    in about 4 hours). Most machines don't seem to have this information
    on the packaging, so we aren't sure which machines have this feature.
    Can anyone tell me which models have the 2 cycles?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Lisa
    

    I have the Hitachi, it has the two cycles for baking, plus a dough
    cycle.  I have had it for a year now and am very pleased with it.
    Currently it is my favorite kitchen toy. Consumers Report rated it the
    quietest bread maker.

Hi Ed, this is Roger, not Kathy.

Want to thank everyone for the help on bread machines; reply .91 that appeared
to be from SSDEVO::LYON was actually from me; my wife reads this file so I had
to be sneaky :-)

She's now the proud owner of a Zojirusi S15, and loves it!  She got that and all
sorts of bread fixn's for Christmas.

                                 Roak

    I received a Toastmaster Breadbox for Christmas.  It came from Lechmere
    and was 199.00 ($169 on sale).  I chose the toastmaster over a small
    Panasonic with yeast dispenser ($209 on sale), although I was nervous
    about the quality being comparable to some mentioned in this file....  
    Any comments on Toastmaster quality?  Was it mentioned in Consumer 
    Reports?
    
    The Toastmaster had a several features that I liked: delay timer, 2
    knead cycles (beeps) so you can add extra ingredients for specialty
    breads before the end of the second knead, settings for light, med. or
    dark bread, rapid rise/bread rapid setting, a cool-down cycle -- you
    choose whether to use it or not, plus a "hold" cycle after the cooldown
    which allows you to leave the bread in the machine for 3 hours and keep
    it warm!  It shuts of automatically after 3 hours.
                          
    So far I've made 2 loaves -- basic white, and Swedish Julbrod. The 
    machine worked perfectly on both.
    
    Can anyone tell me if it's okay to "peek" while the bread is kneading,
    or will it alter the temperature and cause problems in the rinished
    bread?  This machine looks like a Panasonic -- no window -- hard to
    resist opening it.
    

    	I'm surprised to hear that DAK didn't include recipes with its
    	machine. Several years ago they sent out a whole booklet filled
    	with various bread recipes as a promotion to get people to buy
    	their bread baker. The recipes were both for baking bread by hand
    	and by a machine, which I thought was nice. So either way they said
    	hold on to the book since its useful even without a machine. They
    	looked like good recipes too. Wonder where I put mine... probably 
    	thrown out along with that year's catalogues.

    	Can printing costs be that bad now that DAK makes you request it
    	first? Mine was probably one of millions they sent out for free to
    	people who never bought their machine. And now they can't send it
    	inside the stupid boxes when someone _does_ buy one? Oh well...

	-Erik

    I've got an early DAK R2-D2 model and have fun making banana-nut bread.
    
    But I've run into a problem mentioned but never explicitly answered in
    this conference: the "falling middle", whereby the loaf comes out
    concave with its low point in the center. Depressing :-)
    
    What's wrong here? Too much salt? Too little yeast? Too much yeast? Too
    much water? Too little honey? I use King Arthur flour plus some gluten,
    2 packets of yeast (old, but foams up when mixed with sugar and hot water).
    The rest is pretty much by the recipe book that came with the machine.
    
      John

    Sounds to me like two things are going on - possibly too much liquid,
    and maybe too much sweetener. Sweet breads with more than 2-3 tbsp.
    honey or sugar (complicated by fruit as well) will often sink in the 
    middle. 
    
    Also, I've found that Lora Brody's "bread machine boost" sold by 
    King Arthur (through their catalog works considerably better than just 
    adding gluten.
    
    Karen

    	I saw an R2D2 type bread machine at Walmart in Hookset, NH
    yesterday. It did 1.5 lb. loaves. It was the floor model and the last
    one I think. It was marked down to $86.
    
    	Ray

    I think I burnt out my Welbilt R2D2 type machine. I'm really bumming, I
    had so many loaves I was going to make this week!
    
    The other night I put all the stuff in the machine to make Pumpkin
    Bread (not a quick bread...yummy I'll add the recipe if people want it)
    and set it to be finished at 7 am on Sunday morning. Woke up and the
    house smelled wonderful! Rushed to admire my masterpiece and there were
    only baked Pumpkin Bread crumbs. Aarrgghh...the wild birds had a feast
    that day. I figured I forgot to add the liquid. When I was washing it I
    noticed the paint on the mixer/beater thingy looked chipped, but not
    broken or anything. I figured normal wear and tear. I use the machine a
    minimum of once a week. Last night I put all the stuff in the machine
    again and made sure I added the liquid. Set it to be finished at 3:30
    am this morning. Well, awoke again to the wonderful aroma of fresh
    Pumpkin Bread. Was really happy because this loaf was being sent to
    Florida. Went to take the loaf out of the pan and this time I have a
    baked unmixed mess! Nothing got mixed up, but it baked.
    
    I left it there! I wasn't going to put up with that mess at 4:30 am
    this morning. I'm going to take the stuff out and start it tonight
    without anything in it. See what happens...
    
    Anyone have this happen to them? I bought my machine about 2� years
    ago and it is used all the time. I don't think it is under any kind
    of warranty and don't know if I should bother sending it back/finding
    a repair place or just buying a new one. Any suggestions? 
    
    If I do get another one, I think I'd like to upgrade. Maybe one that
    will do quickbreads etc too. Any suggestions on this? I've looked
    through this note, but the recommendations are old. Anything new and
    exciting out there? I haven't been keeping up with the advancements
    since I've been happily making bread with my trusty R2D2.
    
    Thanks for listening!
    Betsy

    Hmmmm....   Filene's, Lechmere and Jordan Marsh all have a TRILLIUM
    brand BREADMAN.  Note .90 says the REGAL BREADMAN was rated #1 by
    Consumer Reprots.  I checked around the PLane Mall but could find
    neither a Regal or Zojirusi.  The Kitchen Etc was down the street.
    
    
    Q: Am I safe in assuming these are NOT the same machine?   
    
    
    The Trillium Breadman is on sale for $179.99 at Filene's.  They also have 
    a T.Breadman Plus which will do 2lb loafs for $199.99 at Filene's.  
    Lechmere says we'll beat the price by 110%, so they have the T.Breadman 
    Plus for $179.99. Lechmere does not carty the T.Breadman (1.5lb loafs).  
    The plus also has a Whole Wheat setting which does cycle the machine
    differnently (has a punch phase, two rise times w/first one longer,
    ...).  
    
    I lean towards the small (1.5lb) size because I checked the mechanical 
    specs and the smaller unit had a 105Watt motor, the larger one didn't
    list the motor size.  If they made the pan bigger by 33% but used the
    same motor...  I was afraid after too many 2lb loafs, the motor would
    give out.  And, the idea of a bread maker is fresh bread.  It will be
    fresher if you make the 1.5lb loaf more often!

Re: .105

I checked my 1995 Consumer Reports Buying Guide, and it's the Trillium Breadman
that is rated #1, followed by the Zojirushi, then the Regal Kitchen Pro.  There
was no such machine as the Regal Breadman mentioned.

The Zojirushi (to my knowledge) is not sold in department stores; I've only seen
them in Kitchen Etc. stores, small kitchen shops, and mailorder catalogs.  
Kitchen Etc. has the lowest prices, though at $279.00.  I'm hoping Santa brings
me one this year... ;-)
                                       

I bought a Trillium Breadman on sale for $179 which included a Snack/Sandwich
Maker, cookbook and video on how to use the machine.  I also picked up the
bread slicer guide.  I highly recommend it if you like uniform slices.

I love the smell of the yeast and bread rising, then the baking!  YUM!  I
should have set the machine before I left for work this morning.  Hmmm, it
is so simple, my non-cooking husband said he'd be willing to start it. :-)

Judy

    Wow .. I've read through every note in here and didn't see my brand of
    breadmaker in here!
    
    I recently received (as a VERY nice early christmas present) an "Oster"
    bread maker.  It has the delay option, as well as an option for large
    (1.5 lb) or small (1 lb) loaves.
    
    Has anyone heard anything good or bad about the "Oster" bread machine. 
    I've used it once so far, but plan on making pepperoni cheese bread for
    a party I'm having Saturday.
    
    Holly
    

    Holly,
    
    There are new brands of bread makers on the market today. The one I 
    bought last year, Pillsbury by Sanyo, is relatively new too. 
    
    I have had good luck with Oster products (blender and a toaster).
    Hopefully you breadmaker will last as long as they have.
    
                                 Alice

    Anyone out there with a Black & Decker model willing to share info,
    pro's and con's???
    
    Thanx, Brigit

I picked up the Breadman Plus (2 lb loafs) at Filene's just before Christmas.
I used one of their additional 20% coupons so I got it for $160.00.  I've
only made 1 loaf so far (French) and it was pretty good.  It has the simpliest
ingrediants that I could find easily.  It did ask for "Sea Salt" but I couldn't
find that at Market Basket so I used regular salt.  The other recipes have 
lots of other ingredients that I'm not used to cooking with. Where's the best 
place to find bread making supplies?

Garry

The best place I've found to buy unusual ingredients is a health food store.
They stock many unusual types of flours, natural sweeteners, etc., and in
my experiences, they also have the best baking yeast around.  They may even
stock sea salt, although I've never checked.

    Most health food stores stock sea salt.
    
    Robin

    
    
         After reading this note and my copy of the December 93' CR mag
    I will probably pick up a Breadman by Trillium. Another feature that
    this unit carries that others don't besides being rated no.1 is a three
    year warranty. 

    
       After a little more research I have found that Trillium has been
    bought by Salton Maxim and they still carry the "Breadman" logo. Also
    the Maxim rep told me that the Dec. 93' issue of CR had made a mistake
    in reporting the three year warranty claim and was corrected in a later
    issue. Its one year. The only place that I can find one is Lechmere
    (sp?). Who else carries them?

Here in Colorado, Foley's carries them.

         
          Does anyone have the Toastmaster model 1154. This machine makes
    up to a 2lb. loaf. It has similar features as the Breadman and its
    $100 cheaper. I don't mind paying the $100 if it would be worth it.
    The Toastmaster comes with  3 different size loaves, 7 different
    settings including whole wheat, a keep warm cycle, mix-in cycle, crust
    color selection , 12 hour time delay and viewing window. Service Merch.
    has it on sale now for $138.00 

    I received the Toastmaster BreadBox for Christmas.  It sounds like the
    model you are describing.  I am completely satisfied with it so far. 
    I've made all kinds of bread from whites to whole wheats to fruit breads
    (I tried the Prune Bread from this file) and have been sucessful on all
    counts.  The only thing I haven't tried yet is the delayed start.
    
    Wendy

     
      Since I got mine last week I have made 4 loaves and they all came out 
    decent. I made the rasin-cinammon bread on Monday night using their 
    recipe that came in the manual with the machine and it came out real
    good. I don't think you can use the premix material for the rasin-cin.
    bread because of all the other ingredients that goes into it. Plus 
    with the cinammon you need to use the sweet bread cycle which is number
    7 on your machine.

    I purchased a Black & Decker last summer and am very pleased with it.
    The loaves are 1-1/2 lb. and it pretty much does all the work for you.
    Be careful to use cool yeast or the breads won't rise.
    
    

    re:118
    
    	A little late but... I got the same unit for my wife for Christmas
    and so far, so good. She usually makes a loaf a day, so she's made
    over 60 loaves so far.
    
    	About the only thing I don't like about it is that it is noisy when
    kneading the dough. The mixer mechanism appears to be designed to skip
    over the base spindle when the dough gets thicker. This makes a banging 
    sound. My wife uses the timer and it woke us up one morning.
    
    	My wife has made white, wheat, raisin, and french bread so far.
    She's getting to the point where she will be doing more experimenting
    now. There are definitely some interesting recipes for these things.
    
    	Ray

    My mom has a DAK model 5 breadmaker.  She has lost the dough blade
    (long story!) and is trying to order a new one.  She has called many
    numbers, including the ones in here and it appears that DAK has gone
    into bankruptcy.  does anybody have an idea how she can replace the
    blade?  Does the original manufacturer make the same machine under
    another brand name?  Is the Welbilt blade the same.  It's a shame for
    the entire machine to be rendered useless just because the dough blade
    is missing.  Any thoughts would be appreciated.
    
    David Gould  MROA::DGOULD

    We received an announcement in the mail for DAK replacement parts.  The
    address is:
    
    DAK Gourmet Products
    19749 Bahama Street
    Northridge, CA 91324
    818 886-5895
    
    They offer rebuilt DAK machines, books, and parts.  For example, the
    dough blade is $9 + $2 shipping.

Has anyone ever seen a "programmable" bread machine? By programmable, I mean 
a machine that allows you to set your own time-extent for the various stages
that the machine goes through rather than simply having to make do with the
preset programs with which the machine is hardwired.

I often find that using a particular recipe, either the preset rise time or 
bake time is too long or short for the particular recipe I'm using, and it 
would be excellent if I could just cut down or increase the time on a 
particular cycle.

Sometimes I find that a recipe is rising just fine and could begin baking
at time T (now) but my Oster machine insists on letting it rise another
ten minutes, by which time it may be overflowing the container. It's easy 
enough to cut the bake cycle short, if I've got the crust to where I want it
and the machine wants  to go further (just STOP it), but when I'd like to
bake it a bit more for a darker crust, there aren't too many options if I've
already chosen DARK (and sometimes less liquid isn't an option up front.)

If anyone knows of a model that offers this level of choice, I'd appreciate 
hearing about it. Even a button that would "boot" the next cycle on a
preprogrammed setup might be helpful, as many machines have enough presets
to offer at least one that provides cycles long enough (just not short enough.)

    Hi Jack,
    
    My Zojirushi bread machine is programmable (has memory for 1 recipe at
    a time). I have mine programmed for Jewish rye bread and call up that
    recipe all the time.
    
    I've been very pleased with this machine all around. Paid a bit more
    for it originally but the quality is first rate. Have almost never
    had a failure of any kind.
    
    Regards,
    
    Karen

    I was having a problem making raisin bread in the machine.  All the
    raisins would be stuck together at the bottom of the loaf.  Last night I
    tried a new approach.  I coated the raisins with a tablespoon of flour
    and cinnamon.  It worked great the bread was mix with raisins and  the
    problem was solved.
    
    Robin

    Recently bought a Breadman Plus/Ultra Machine from Penney's Home Store.
    Have made 2 loaves, (basic white and an egg bread), which my husband
    complained was too bland.  They seemed to rise ok and I certainly loved
    the taste, with butter, cheese, wine, etc...What a meal!  Might I
    be doing something wrong?  I used 1 package of the dry Fleischmann's
    yeast for a 2 lb loaf. 
    
    I'm going to continue to experiment with cinnamon bread a nd other
    recipes found in notes.  They all sound like they'll taste yummy!
    
    

    Try some of the recipes in note 2581.8, especially the Onion
    Dill bread - a real winner!
    
    Karen

    Re: Raisins
    
    I have a West Bend machine and it does a great job distributing the
    raisins. Do you have a sweet bread setting/mode? It basically gives
    you an audible tone when it's time to add the raisins/nut's/etc. This
    is after the dough has been formed in the middle of the first kneed
    cycle. It actually pulls some of the raisins apart which adds nice
    color and texture.......
    
    Make sure your using the right setting (if your not already)..
    
    George 

I'm trying to figure why the raisins would "settle" through a dough. Is this
not a dough, but a batter bread of some sort?

    Re: Raisins
    
    I have a Breadman Plus that has a fruit and nut cycle.  The machine
    emits a tone after 16? minutes.  I always had problems with the raisins
    clusters near the bottom of the bread.  The problem wasn't when I added
    the raisins, the solution as I mentioned in a previous note was
    coating the raisins with flour.
    
    Robin

    re: 1952.129
    
    I buy the jar of bread machine yeast.  Recipes vary in the amount of
    yeast required.  I prefer to measure out the yeast.  Try some of the
    recipes in this notes file and there are lots of bread machine books
    with different recipes.
    
    Robin

    	While on the subject of yeast, Sam's sells two 1 lb. bags of yeast
    for under $5. Brand name was Red Star I believe. This is a large
    savings over the packets or the small jar of Fleishmans brand.
    
    	Ray

I buy the 1 lb. bags of yeast, store it in a glass jar with a tight lid and
in the freezer.  I measure out the amount of yeast needed for the recipe and 
let it come up to room temperature before adding to the other ingredients 
(unless using it in a delayed start setting).  

Judy