Conference turris::cooks

    
    I'm not sure about eggnog but certainly here in Britain where we
    have been experiencing a salmonella scare the guidelines are as
    follows:
    
    Boiled eggs should be hard boiled, not soft boiled.
    Fried eggs should be cooked hard, the recommendation is three minutes
    on each side.
    Eggs should not be poached, soft scrambled or used raw if suspected
    of salmonella contamination.
    
    Baked foods containing eggs are not a problem as the temperature
    achieved in baked items insures any salmonella contamination is killed.
    
    I heard last night that eggs have a natural defence to kill the
    salmonella bug called (linozene? sp).. this kills salmonella in
    the egg white but if the bug has travelled into the yoke it can
    not kill it off.. that is why recommendations are now out warning
    against raw egg yoke!
    
    The old, very young and infirm are at a greater risk to salmonella
    poisoning than others.
    
    gailann

    It sounds to me like this would rule out custard?
    

    
     Rep .1 
    
      Why would it rule out custard??? The custard I make is baked for
     at least an hour at 350f so I don't believe the little beasties
     would live through that. Now maybe the stuff from a box would 
     cause problems if you use raw eggs and didn't cook it but once
     the temperature of the custard goes past 160f again the little
     beasties are killed.
    
      I think this whole thing is blown way out of proportion at least
     in the U.S.A. All the reports I've read all point to the U.K. and
     a problem there. Given the hysterical media in this country <U.S.A.>
     if the same problems that exsist in U.K. exsist here it would be
     all over the evening news.
    
    
      -mike
    

    
    Eat 'em all the time.  So do my boys.  (The youngest is 23.)
    
    But were safe.  We "grow our own" and our chickens are kept healthy!

    I have always washed my eggs before cracking open the shells. Everyone
    always thought I was dingy, but its not worth taking chances.
    

    My new Southern Living came last night, and it contains a full page
    article about the dangers of eating raw eggs, how to ensure against
    Salmonella, etc.  Having read this note, I had already started thinking
    about giving up one of my favorite foods in the world:  Caesar's salad.
    The Southern Living article put my mind to rest, however, by adding
    that in addition to heat, acid also kills the bacteria. Mixing raw eggs
    with vinegar or lemon juice, resulting in a mixture with a ph of no
    more than 5, kills the Salmonella bacteria just as surely as raising
    the mixture to a temperature of 165.  Thank goodness!!!!  Think
    I'll make a Caesar's salad this weekend! 
    
    							Pat

What does it mean for people who like egg nog? How about raw eggs in
beer? Isn't there a raw beef dish with raw egg?

  I've been trying to figure out for months what's really going on: is
  there really any more salmonella in chicken and eggs, or is it just
  getting more attention? 

  My brother-in-law is a pathologist. He loves good food. He says it's
  just a case of recent media attention, and that he's seen no evidence
  that there's been any increase in the actual incidence of salmonella
  poisoning from uncooked eggs (accurate attribution of symptoms to
  salmonella has increased, though). 

  On the other hand, my father is a biochemist. He also loves good good.
  He feels that there's been a decline in sanitary conditions at egg
  farms, which has led to an increase in the actual amount of salmonella
  bacteria present in chickens and eggs. He implies that Reagan's
  policies of relaxed regulation, combined with profit motive, are
  partially responsible.

  Both analyses are plausible. What seems to be lacking here is some
  direct anecdotal evidence. Have any of you noters out there personally
  gotten salmonella poisoning from uncooked eggs within the last two
  years? I haven't. I'm inclined to agree with Mike Wolinski that the
  whole thing is out of proportion to the truth, whatever that is.

  Re .5: Why would washing the shells have any significant effect on
  salmonella? The bacteria are *inside* the eggs, as well as on the
  shells. The few bacteria which manage to jump from the shell to the
  egg while you're cracking it couldn't do much harm (unless your eggs
  were just crawling with salmonella, in which case you really do have a
  problem - better to give up eating eggs altogether if that's the
  case). Also, you'd have to wash the eggs with soap and hot water to
  kill enough bacteria to do any good. But, if it makes you feel good,
  go right ahead and wash them. It can't hurt. Or can it? Just asking
  :-).

  - Mike (who still eats Caesar salad)

Re:< Note 1564.9 by VIA::GLANTZ "Mike" >
 
>  Re .5: Why would washing the shells have any significant effect on
>  salmonella? The bacteria are *inside* the eggs, as well as on the

I've seen several reports on the eggs/salmonella issue in the past
few months (most before England's big egg scare), and in each report,
the experts interviewed gave cooking guidelines and advised washing the
eggs first. Apparently the shell is what harbors the salmonella, and
cracking the egg puts the outside of the shell in contact with the
inside, which then can give you salmonella.

I don't know how exactly you're supposed to wash the eggs (temperature
of the water, with or without soap, etc.), but I wouldn't be surprised
if just the force of running water over the egg would wash off many
contaminents. (This is why you're advised to wash chicken with cold running
water before cooking it.You're not trying to kill the bacteria on the
chicken, but to wash it down the drain.) 

re. .9
<  go right ahead and wash them. It can't hurt. Or can it? Just asking
<  :-).

  I haven't the foggiest notion where I heard/read this, but I am under the
impression that egg spoilage (not salmonella, but rotten eggs) is accelerated
if the eggs are washed and then stored.  When the egg is layed it is initially
damp and the coating which dries helps to keep the air from getting to the
inside (something like the wax on a paper cup keeps the paper from getting
soaked).  Air contributes to rapid spoilage.  Eggs taken on long voyages are
dipped in paraffin to keep out the air and are good (not spoiled) for a long
time.

   If you're into washing your eggs, do so just prior to use, not the day
you bring them home...

 For what ever it's worth......

Al

  You're absolutely right about that. If I remember correctly, the
  coating is called the "bloom", and is destroyed by moisture. In most
  countries, eggs are sold at room temperature so that condensation
  which would destroy the bloom doesn't form. They keep much longer (if
  you're going to keep them at room temperature) than if they'd been
  refrigerated first. Once the shells become wet for any reason, you
  should use the eggs as soon as possible.

  When we lived in France, eggs were sold this way even in the modern
  supermarkets, and we often kept them on the counter until they were
  used, sometimes as much as a week later with no ill effects. It may
  have been my imagination, but they also seemed to taste better than
  eggs which had been refrigerated. This is possibly because they didn't
  pick up any refrigerator odors (egg shells are a perfect sponge for
  odors). I'd be interested to hear if anyone here has had the
  experience of buying eggs at room temperature and not refrigerating
  them before using them. Do you notice any difference in taste?

    	I am new to this file and I did a DIR/TITLE=EGG and I didn't
    find what I wanted, but this topic does deal with eggs so I am placing
    this question here.
    
    	I read somewhere that you could tell if an egg was bad by placing
    them in water and if they floated (or sank) they were bad, but I
    can't remember which.  I cooked some eggs the other day and 4 eggs
    (the older ones) were floating.  When I ate the resulting egg salad,
    I didn't feel that good.  Any help out there?

re: old eggs

place the egg in question in a bowl of cold water.  If the egg floats,
don't use it.  It is old.  This does not mean it is "infested" with
deadly microbes, but it probably won't taste as good as it should.

	I don't know why old eggs float, but they do.  I also found it
hard to remember which way the rule went until I decided that "they
were around for so long that air got through the shell and now they
float."

	I have no idea if this is the cause, but it certainly makes it
easy to remember.

Sandy

RE: .16

That's exactly right--as eggs get older, they lose moisture, the whites
shrink, and air enters the egg to fill the extra space.

Seeing if an egg floats will tell you nothing about possible salmonella
contamination.  The salmonella contamination, if there is any, is all on the
outer surface of the egg shell.  It's just as possible for a freshly-laid egg
to be contaminated as an old one.

--PSW

    I would not worry about using an egg that floats (if that's ALL that's
    wrong), I use them all the time.  If you want the best flavors and the
    best peaks from your whipped whites though, you want the sinkers.
    
    ed

>contamination.  The salmonella contamination, if there is any, is all on the
>outer surface of the egg shell.  It's just as possible for a freshly-laid egg

    Does this mean that if I wash the outside of an egg I remove the
    danger of salmonella?   My son loves my homemade eggnog but the wife
    is very uneasy about us using raw eggs.  

    -JFK-

RE: .19

>    Does this mean that if I wash the outside of an egg I remove the
>    danger of salmonella?

Not unless you wash the egg with betadine or some other powerful antiseptic
that will likely render the egg either unpalatable or poisonous.  The problem
is that eggshells are porous--you can't possibly wash off all the bacteria with
soap and water. However, thoroughly cleaning the egg (and avoiding ones with
cracks in the shells) will minimize the risk.  The other thing you can do is
make sure that you don't allow the bacteria time to grow and multiply.  For
eggnog, this means making the batch as soon as possible before you drink it,
and keep it well refrigerated.  Bacteria go dormant at low temperatures, but
they will multiply rapidly in a good nutrient medium such as eggnog in a warm
place.

--PSW

>eggnog, this means making the batch as soon as possible before you drink it,
>and keep it well refrigerated.  Bacteria go dormant at low temperatures, but

    I have never refrigerated a batch of eggnog in my life!
    Of course I don't remember ever having leftovers after making it
    either.  Seems there is always a line of kids waiting in front
    of the blender for seconds.

    -JFK-

    There is also evidence that in the States at least, some chickens have
    systemic salmonella. There are cases of eggs which had salmonella
    inside the shell, since the chicken's egg tract was infected and
    therefore the egg was infected before the shell formed. Not much you
    can do about that except cook the heck out of them. 
    
    But, I'm still going to take my chances with things like eggs in fresh
    homemade blackberry icecream. :-)

	Before you go out and start scrubbing your eggs before use let me say
that when a chicken lays an egg it is coated with a mucus which, after it
dries, seals out the air (makes things easier for the chicken too).  The air
infiltration is a major cause for an egg to spoil (i.e. shortens its shelf
life). An egg should be STORED unwashed.  If you are concerned about
contamination and insist on washing the egg, do so just before use, NOT between
the supermarket and your refrigerator.  To some degree the shelf life of eggs 
can be extended by coating/sealing each egg in wax (like on camping trips, sea 
voyages etc.).

	To tie this back to the floating/sinking egg story from a couple notes
back, if you wash your eggs they should float sooner... 

	Have you ever noticed that some eggs when hardboiled peel real easy
and with others you tear the egg apart in getting the shell off???

	One reason relates to the age of the egg.  The fresher the egg is the
harder it is to peel.  The older the egg is the easier it is to peel.  There
may be other varietal differences, but if you ever get your eggs directly from
the chicken expect to have problems peeling the eggs.

Al

I recently read two recipes that I want to try out that deal with egg
whites.

The first suggested using powdered pasteurized egg whites.  I assume that
it will kill off the samonella problem but they didn't go as far as to
say that.  Does anyone know where I can find this?

Second question is for frosting that contains egg whites.  You put it in 
a double boiler and keep beating it.  I think the length of time may have been
7 minutes.  Would this kill off the samonella?  Would it get hot enough?

I'd rather not make something to feed to others that could potentially 
be harmful.

Thanks,
Nisha