Conference turris::cooks

  I've used Jennairs with the downdraft exhaust, and they do work well,
  but I still prefer an overhead exhaust, because they remove more of
  the stuff that comes from the cooking. You can still install one in
  your situation, even though the cooktop must be away from an outside
  wall. The cleanest way is to run the exhaust tube in the ceiling, but
  this will only work if the joists of the floor above run in the right
  direction and there's no obstruction in the ceiling between the hood
  and the outside wall. 

  Another method which will work in almost all other cases involves
  running the tube through a soffit (that is, through a sort of frame
  which is built around the tube to hide it). This doesn't have to be
  ugly at all, especially if it can be made to look like an intentional
  part of the kitchen. If it runs even with a countertop, or along a
  natural division in the room (like between the cooking area and an
  eating area), then you can dress it up with pot hooks, mount track
  lighting on the bottom, etc. It doesn't have to look at all like a
  frame which had to be built to hide an ugly tube. Any way you do it, 
  it's important that the tube be well sealed, and that the surface
  under it be protected against grease which could drip from the tube.

  If it doesn't matter to you whether you have a downdraft exhaust or a
  ceiling exhaust, bear in mind that a Jennair may cost you less, total,
  than a less expensive cooktop and a lot of carpentry, and you may end
  up with a better quality cooktop in the bargain.

   You might browse through the home improvements file - I remember
    lots of notes about this - JOET::HOME_WORK.
    
    Good luck - I envy you!
    
    TW

    Rather than start a new topic, I thought I'd add to this one.
    
    Like the basenoter, my husband and I are in the process of designing
    our new home, and I'd like to get the kitchen of my dreams, though
    that's not likely given that I do have to work within budget
    constraints, but I'd like to come as close as possible. So I thought
    I'd ask here to see what types of features other people would put in
    their dream kitchen. I've already perused home_work, but most of those
    topics tend to be from the building side vs. from the requirements view
    of the person who will be doing the cooking.  My husband is really
    stuck on an island kitchen, but I can't see the island as doing
    anything except being an obstacle.  Why do people like islands?  And
    what do you put in one?  The kitchen magazines I've seen all have a
    second kitchen sink in the island. I imagine maybe a trash compactor,
    but I was thinking perhaps of putting the cooktop there as then I'd
    have quite a bit of countertop when I'm cooking.
    
    Also, I've got my heart set on custom kitchen cabinets, which is what
    I have today, because there are no dividers between them, so I get more
    usable space for my larger pans and dishes, but hubby is pushing the
    ready-made cabinets. 
    
    Other things I'm trying to decide on is if I want ceramic tile on the
    countertops and floors like I have today, or if I'd be better off with
    something like granite or even Corian on the countertops and perhaps
    wood on the floor to be a little easier on my feet.
    
    Comments, suggestions? 
    
    Thanks,
    Cathy

    Hi Cathy,
    
    I'm building my dream kitchen as we speak.  I have an L shaped run of
    counters 15' long on the long side and 10' or so on the short side. 
    The short side contains a large double bowl sink.  No Garbage disposal
    as we compost everything.  The dishwasher is next to the sink.  One 5'
    wide window on the short side, centered over the sink, and one 5' wide
    window on the long side.  There are very few upper cabinets because of
    the amount of window space.  The fridge will be at the end of the long
    side of the L.
    
    I will also have an island, whicj will be about 9' long on the long
    side and 4' long on the short side, echoing the L shape of the outer
    cabinet run.  The island will contain a small sink directly across from
    the fridge, a slide in gas stove, and a 2 burner jennair (I think) unit
    right next to the stove with a downdraft.  The Jennair downdraft will
    take care of the venting needs of the stove as well as the jennair
    burners, so I can avoid having an overhead hood.
    
    Lighting will be recessed flood halogens and track lighting over the
    island.  Countertops will be formica (I can't afford granite but that's
    what they'd be if I could).  Floor will be tile (I have dogs -
    otherwise we would have considered hardwood).  Cabinets are natural
    finished hickory with a simple raised panel design, from Kraft-maid.  
    
    Don't ask how much all this is costing.
    
    Dana
    
    

Here's some experience, some opinion.

We had an island built for our previous house, and I installed a
dishwasher in it. That was okay. No strong feelings about that. We also
had the kitchen carpeted in that house, and would *not* do that again, at
least in the area of the sink/ stove/ island/ refrigerator.

We liked that island concept so much that we had a longer one built for
our new house, with radiused corners, a bit more overhang of the work
area and a bit more kick space. Last year I installed track lighting over
the island, and it's such a tremendous improvement that I can't
adequately describe it. I have 600 watts of small floods up there, and
it's perfect.

We have two friends who went crazy with ceramic tile in their kitchen;
floors, surfaces, back splashes... They'd *never* do the floor or
surfaces with ceramic tile again. They've both dropped pans and whatnot,
and have broken tiles. Several times apiece. The floor is extremely cold
and hard on your feet.  If you're standing there peeling or preparing for
a couple of hours (like, during canning season), it's tough on your feet
and legs. I have occasionally dropped china cups, plates, and glasses on
our linoleum floor without damage to either the floor or the item; on
ceramic it's goodbye. 

What would I do differently with our island? I'd probably put a small
vegetable prep sink in it. 

I'd definitely wire the island, with outlets under the overhang, to use
the food processor, blender, mixers, even the toaster...

If I was doing the whole kitchen from scratch?  I *might* put in a
surface unit stove or Jen-Aire-type grill at one end of the island, if I
could do the hood/vent properly. 

JMHO,

Art

    See, now, I've had much different experience with ceramic tile. 
    Although I don't think I'd put it on the kitchen floor again because
    it's so hard on my feet when I'm doing marathon cooking, I am
    definitely considering it for the countertops and backsplashes again. 
    I find it reasonably durable, and I like the fact that I can just put
    any hot pan right down on it while I'm cooking. I couldn't do that with
    formica as it will burn/melt.  And that's one of the things that's
    making me consider the tile on the countertops again, but my husband
    has suggested granite.
    
    As far as the floor, I could probably be talked into ceramic again, but
    at this point, I'm almost leaning towards wood. I'd put in linoleum but
    my husband doesn't care for it, and if I drop anything hot on it, like
    oil, it will melt. And since I'm what you'd call a sloppy cook, I'm
    always spilling things. That's one of the advantages of the ceramic --
    it cleans so easily.
    
    But you folks are definitely giving me second thoughts about having an
    island.  I suppose if I can make the kitchen big enough, it won't be in
    my way, so I won't mind having it.  And it might give me a nice prep
    and cook area.
    
    Keep those ideas coming!
    Cathy

    I can't resist this note!!  I bought my house because of the kitchen,
    but it is not my dream kitchen.  
    
    Current kitchen has a wall of windows, cathedral ceiling with two 
    skylights, and a slider to the back yard/pool.  I love it.  It's an 
    eat-in kitchen with an island between the dining area and the cooking 
    area.  The island is a formica countertop with cabinets underneath. 
    The cabinets have pull out shelves, which I just love!  It also has 
    cubby holes, which I use as a wine rack, even though it isn't one. 
    Above are double-sided cabinets, so you can take things out in the
    kitchen area or in the dining area.  My kitchen also has a built-in
    desk next to the refrigerator.
    
    My dream kitchen keeps the wall of window and skylights (another thing
    I'd like if the wall of windows isn't feasible is glass blocks at the
    ceiling level to let in light).  I have a formal dining room just off
    the kitchen, and a small breakfast nook in the kitchen.  Instead of
    cabinets over the island, I'd have track lighting and hanging pot
    racks.  A small vegetable sink would be nice there, too.  My big
    changes would be having everything at the proper height for a short
    person like me!  I'm just about 5' "tall" and would definitely want the
    counters shorter.  I would especially like a refrigerated marble slab
    built in at my hip level, for pastry and candy making.  The desk would
    also be ergonomically set up so my feet touch the floor when I'm
    sitting at it!
    
    I'd have ceramic or granite countertops/backsplash, and ceramic tile
    floor (my brother is in the business - I'd have to! ;-)  If I had
    little kids, I'd think twice about a ceramic floor (or if I was a
    bigger klutz than I am), but that's all that would stop me from
    ceramic.  It is tough during marathon cooking sessions, though.  Right
    now I have linoleum and Formica.
    
    The biggest change I'd make is lowering the counters!
    
    
    Susan

Let's see...

Countertops:  I like the granite or ceramic look.  I agree with
	a previous noter that not having to worry about hot pans
	is a plus for ceramic.  We have not had much trouble with
	breakage but keeping the grout clean is another story.
	Right now we are looking at replacing our counter with
	granite (our current home has a mixture of formica and
	ceramic).  Also the grout when using granite is very thin.

Cabinets:  Currently we have the "modern" laminated cabinets with
	a wood trim.  I prefer solid wood doored cabinets.  If you like
	the cabinets themselves you might consider ordering new solid
	doors and matching veneer for a "do-it" yourself project.  My
	husband and his father did our previous kitchen for 20% of
	the estimates given to us.  AND it looked beautiful.  We 
	got our supplies at HomeBase (special order).

Floors: Have had wood, linolium and marble.  Loved the look of marble
	(that was in California and didn't worry about the cold).  Right
	now we have wood.  I like the look but after having a 2 1/2 
	year old on it  and a dog - it is looking worn.  They say
	refinishing needs to happen on a regular basis.

We also have an island and I find it very convient when cooking and
entertaining.  We plan to put butcher block on it for a little 
variation in the kitchen.  We also find we use this surface the most.

Good Luck - what fun a new kitchen.

Our kitchen table is solid oak with two 4-tile ceramic inserts. 

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I hadn't thought about those. We put hot pots directly on the ceramic. If
we were doing a new island now, I'd probably have one or two ceramic
"islands" installed in the island top - but the majority of the island
top would still be in the formica family. 

Art

    good luck!  We're just finishing our dream kitchen, have been using
    it for 6 mos. now and pleased.
    
    Ideas we incorporated that I love are:
    - "pot and pan" drawers, we located them under the cooktop, easy to 
    open and stow away.
    - 4 feet between island and countertops to allow two adults to pass
    and/or our 4-year old and now walking 8-month old
    - island is 4'x8', counter height and our table.  one end supported
    by back to back cabinets, one has the lift-up internal shelf for
    my kitchenaid mixer....fabulous!!!!
    - granite countertops, look great clean up great, hot pots on top
    no problem. Just be careful if you pick light colored granite,
    hot oil spills stain: BE SURE to clean IMMEDIATELY and there's no
    problem I goofed by not cleaning up bacon grease.  Over time the 
    stain has lightened considerably and almost blends into granite
    pattern, but, like the first ding on your first new car I do notice
    it.
    - Double sink under-mounted on granite, meaning no lip so counter
    stuff and liquids can be pushed into sink.  Front of sink opens up
    for storage of sponges, brillo, etc
    - Faucet has pullout head and doubles as spray device: great!
    - pump for liquid soap mounted in sink great!
    - have a builtin desk in kitchen with large window above overlooking
    backyard playground.
    - garbage pail mounted in cabinet, close up and very tidy
    
    feel free to send me mail to hookup offline, be very happy to
    chat further.  We relocated our kitchen from 1 room to another;
    had the old kitchen working through most of our construction which
    was a godsend.  
    
    Further, we taped our kitchen plan in the new space and role-played,
    pretended to use however you may say it; boy did that change our minds 
    on many of our designs!  Several designs looked great on paper,
    when we taped them on the floor they were beyond poor.
    
    Good luck!

    When we had a house built 5 years ago, we spent a lot of time on the
    kitchen design. One thing that helped, was being able to walk through
    the other housed being built in the neighborhood... we could figure out
    what we liked/didn't like without the cost of it in our house! Here are
    a few things we learned.
    
    Islands are nice, but be careful that there is enough room to navigate
    between it and the counters if something is open (like oven door or
    washing machine). This was a problem with the builder design. If the
    oven door was open (oven located in cabinets opposite the island), you
    couldn't get between the oven door and the island. Same with
    dishwasher. We eliminated the island and then later built a table to go
    in that spot, for the extra counter space. Table has Nevamar (like
    corian but by a different company) top, so you can put hot things on
    it, but no cabinets underneath, so it's lightweight and can be moved
    around if I need it someplace else (ie: closer to the sink).
    
    A fan/vent over the stove that goes outside. Much better than the
    filter ones (imho).
    
    Make sure your sink is big enough for your pots and pans. The builder
    was pushing a double bowl sink, which is a nice  concept, but none of
    my big pans would have fit into it. I went with an oversized single
    bowl stainless steel sink and haven't regretted it for a minute.
    Stainless also scrubs up like new, if you scratch it.
    
    Make sure you have plenty of counter space by the frig, the stove and
    the sink (some of this can be shared space). It's really annoying not
    having space for the pot you are holding!
    
    We put in vinyl floors, couldn't afford wood and am too clumsy for
    tile. I like it.
    
    Our previous house had a peninsula between the kitchen and dining room
    that had cabinets underneath and a deep overhang on one side for
    sitting at stools and eating on the counter, very nice.
    
    Drawers for storage are also very nice. We sacrificed upper cabinet
    space for extra windows over the sink and never regretted that either.
    
    Good luck!
    
    janetb.