Conference turris::cooks

>                                            Is there a nature type
>    way of killing/repelling them?  Are there any chemicals to do it?
>    All I see in the stores is roach stuff, not weeble stuff.
    
That's weevil.  They are most common in grain products.  I've never 
heard of chocolate weevils before.  Food producers used to fumigate for 
weevils, but that wasn't natural so it got stopped.  (OK, to be fair, 
the FDA announced that it was studying the fumigant, and so Mass banned
all products that had been fumigated from the shelves before there were
any solid findings and the food industry -- laughing all the way to the
bank -- agreed to stop using it.) Now the only natural control available
is to check your freshness dates and toss any old food. 

					>>>==>PStJTT

    Did a dir/title=weev, no luck there either.
    
    By nature type way I meant like a piece of a certain fruit placed
    in the cabinet or something, like something grandmothers pass down
    as the old fashioned way to kill weevils... :-)
    
    Sharon_the_WEEVIL_killer
    

   When left in opened containers, I've found that flour, cornmeal, Bisquick, 
etc. get the little bugs in them.  To frustrate the little buggers, we've 
started transferring such items into Tupperware type containers and the problem
seems to have gone away.  We now buy flour in 25 lb bags instead of 5 lb bags
(it's much cheaper).   This is what works for us...
					Al

I read somewhere that putting a bayleaf or two in with the grain
products will keep the little buggers away. It's worth trying.

Patti

    Funny you should ask this!!
    
    In our Sunday Telegraph, only this weekend, a country woman was
    having this trouble and about three responses came in with a vote
    for bay leaves. They suggested (as .3 did) to put them in the
    containers, and also to sprinke a few loose ones through the cupboards.
    
    Alison
    

    Although I keep my flour in a Tupperware container, I store the
    Bisquick in the refrigerator - this works great, too!
    
    

     Weevils in flour is a common occurance.  If you want to do what
     my grandmother would have done, just sift them out before using
     the flour!

     I keep flours I don't use often (rye, pastry, etc.) in the
     freezer.

    I just read an article this weekend that suggested using a stick
    of spearmint gum (wrapped or unwrapped) in the flour as a way to
    get rid of the little devils.  Putting the flour in the freezer
    and using a bayleaf (as previously mentioned) were also noted in
    the article.
    
    

    
    How do you know if you have weevils??  I have some flour
    that has been around for about 1 year, maybe longer.  I rarely
    use it, except as a thickener, or to make a quiche.  I never
    noticed any bugs in there!  Should I stir it around and
    take a closer look??
    
    Karen
    

    
    I assume they are weevils 'cause I originally found them in the
    flour, though I'm told "weevils are uncommon this far north" (Mass).
    
    I first had them in the little bug stage, maybe 1/4 inch long or
    less.  Then I found them in the larvae stage as 1/4 inch long white
    squiggly worms.
    
    When I first found them I cleaned the shelves out and threw out
    the flour, I now store it in the frig.  It was *after* I did this
    that I noticed the larvae and adults continuing to live and centered
    around my baking chocolate.  Maybe they're not weevils but after
    moving and throwing out my chocolate and recleaning I found another 
    last night in my shelves.  I'm a neat, clean person, so why aren't 
    they going away?!?!
    
    I'm on a mission for bay leaves and spearmint gum....

        

	 I've had  trouble  on  and  off over the years with something I've
    heard called India moths.  You can see the little buggers flying around
    your  kitchen  -  they're about 1/4" long, and when you smash them they
    leave  that  grey  powder  like the bigger moths.  The larvae are white
    worms  about  1/8"  long,  and  they get into *everything.* I believe I
    introduced  them  by  buying  bulk  foods (rice, flour) from open bins.
    Once  they're in your kitchen, the only recourse is to place everything
    into  plastic  or metal containers.  Plastic bags won't do - the larvae
    can  chew  through  a  thin layer of same.  Having them as visitors has
    changed  my  food  storage habits permanently.  I keep all grains, rice
    and  beans  in  canisters,  tupperware,  or  large French canning jars.
    The latter are attractive as well as inexpensive and effective.

	 Just recently, I brought some dried hot chile peppers back from NM
    and they were infested.  I had no problems, though, since now there was
    no place for them to spread to.


	 JJRitz

    Re: .12
    
    India moths.  So that's what they're called.  I've got 'em in my 
    kitchen.  (Actually, now they're all over my apartment.)  I've 
    gotten into the habit of checking every ingredient for bugs before 
    I use it.  I found larvae over the winter in a can of Cayenne pepper.  
    I know this     is a digression from the topic of cooking, but has 
    anyone found a way to get rid of these pests?  Every time I open 
    a cabinet, they fly out in my face, and I'm getting awfully tired 
    of them.  I've also gotten so adept at catching them that I'm reminded 
    of the scene in "The Karate Kid" where the kid catches a fly with
    chopsticks.  It's a skill I'd gladly relinquish.
    
    Susie

    I often find small (about 1/4") skeletons of some sort of larva
    or worm in my kitchen cabinets, but I often find them in with the
    dishes and baking pans, not in the food.  I've never found a live
    one, whatever they are, but they've been around "invisibly" for
    a couple of years.  Any idea of what they are, and how to get rid
    of them?
    

    Another way to get the weevils is from the grcery bag itself! A
    short time ago when Kessler Farms in Nashua was going out of business
    I purchased some dried flowers from their garden department. As
    I was removing the bag from the back of my car I noticed the creepy
    little buggers (yuck!!). They were all over the inside of the
    bag...must have been well hidden in the seem!
    
    I contacted the store manager and he claimed it was probably because
    the bags had sat in teh garden department over the course of the
    winter!!  Now I toss all the grocery bags IMEDIATELY in the outside
    trash...no little critters in my kitchen!
    
    

    Common nails work too-guess they don't like the taste. 
    

Just experienced the "weevils from Hell" invasion - brought into the house in
some flour from the health food store...by the time you see them, they are
ALL OVER THE PLACE.

To get rid of them, take EVERYTHING from pantry, remove shelves and clean them
off thoroughly using spic and span or something and then rinse well.  While
shelves are out of pantry, spray with household bug spray inside pantry in
seams of walls, etc. and close door and seal overnight.  Next day, wash walls
and floor of pantry, removing all bugs, etc. from floor, replace shelves, and
then replace ONLY canned or bottled, or well-sealed plastic containers of
food.  Discard all grain products unless sealed in containers AND you are
sure they are not infested.  Pasta can be inspected.....flours cannot be
inspected closely enough.  

If you are lucky, you will only get infested from some food or another
once every three years or so....oh well, it's a perfect time to check the
dates on all containers and throw out the old stuff you forgot about in
the back of the pantry.

    I can confirm that bay leaves do work....when I was growing up we
    had the little buggers and Mom put the bay leaves in the flour,
    as well as scattered in the cupboards...now I do it, too.  However,
    the bay leaves should be replaced after a few months.
    			
    					Donna

    1180.9
    >I just read an article this weekend that suggested using a stick
    >of spearmint gum (wrapped or unwrapped) in the flour as a way to
    >get rid of the little devils.

    I tried this, actually I did one better.  I put spearment gum in
    the cabinets figuring that would get rid of them everywhere.  Bad,
    bad move.
    
    The past few days we have had the invasion of the ants.  So we
    decided to stop this once and for all.  We emptied all the shelves
    and bug bombed the place.  While emptying the shelves I took a look
    at the spearment gum.  It was infested by both weevils and ants,
    they loved it!  There were no corpses, just live ones, many more than
    I originally had.
    
    The bug bomb seems to have done the trick, lotsa dead bugs when
    I wiped the cabinets out later.
    
    

    I'm so sorry to hear about your bad experience with the spearmint
    gum!  Unfortunately, my recommendation was from an article I read
    and not from personal experience.  If I still had a copy of the
    article, I'd write a letter to the source of the information to
    set the record straight.
    
    

Weevils, various kinds of moth larvae, and various beetles and their larvae
can infest kitchen shelves.  I collectively call them "shelf life."  They get
into EVERYTHING.  They crawled into my salt shaker and then starved to death.
They even gnawed their way through the sliver foil packets of Instant Breakfast,
ate all the milk powder and sugar (leaving the cocoa powder), and then crawled
out again.  They even got into the spices (they seem to like cumin).

I finally got rid of them by taking everything off the shelves, thoroughly
cleaning them, spraying them with household insecticide, then putting back
all the non-infested stuff (of which there wasn't very much).  I put all the
starchy stuff (cornstarch, flour, rice) and sugar into large mason jars.
This seems to have gotten the problem under control.

--PSW

    I am just getting over an infestation of Indian Meal Moths.  When
    I realized what I had, I called the exterminator.  I was told to
    throw out ALL food that was not canned.  That includes all spices,
    cereals, flour, dog food, etc, etc.  Then I cleaned all the cupboards
    with Lysol.  The exterminator then came in and sprayed the kitchen
    cabinets and all baseboards on the first floor and in the cellar
    under the kitchen.  He told me some interesting stories about these
    critters.  Like, once they are in, they are in until you get serious
    about getting rid of them.  They leave their eggs EVERYWHERE.
    
    I have been advised not to restock for at least 3 weeks.  We are
    eating out lots right now.  I am keeping everything else in the
    refrigerator.
    
    According to the exterminator, these critters come into the house
    with wheat grains.  I think I brought them in with pancake mix I
    buy at an outlet, but I'm not sure.  
    
    Anyway, I now have the cleanest kitchen in Manchester, NH.  I am
    also going to go broke replacing everything.........
    
    Ellen

    
    I was once infested - found weevils in flour, rice, pasta products,
    etc.  And was lucky enough to read an article on how to get rid
    of these....
    
    Get rid of a flour, rice, pasta, cereals, and even spices.  I even had to
    get rid of all my pot holders, cheesecloth, etc. (They found their
    way into the drawers, too).
    
    Clean out shelves, as previously recommended.
    
    Restock, but first place each new product into the freezer for at
    least 1 week. (including spices)  The freezing will kill any new
    bugs, at any stage, brought in from the stores.  
    
    I have not had any problems since.  And I do keep my flour, rice,
    and pasta in the freezer or frig.  Looks unusual to friends - but
    works for me.  Hope this helps.
    
                                

    In a recent issue (can't remember the date, but will check if anyone
    is interested, although I for one am not!) of, believe it or not,
    Cosmopolitan, someone wrote in and ("complained" is not the right
    word) "commented" on the same issue.  The writer, I think she was
    from India, stated that she bought flour, grain, etc... just to
    get these durdy wascals, to eat!! Of course they were used mixed
    in with other stuff---mabey this is a solution, just change your
    eating habits!!
    Stephanie

	I just found some bugs in one of my closets and I need some
suggestions on what to do. I'm not sure if they're like any of the bugs 
previously described. These bugs are less than 1/4 inch long, a dark color
and fly very short distances, maybe 1/2 an inch at a time.
	I think they came from kidney beans I had grown in my garden and 
stored in a ziplock bag. I found quite a few inside the bag even though I 
thought it was sealed. They even got into the plastic bags (these were not 
sealed) that contain my food processer accessories.
	I cleaned out the closet, but I'm not sure if I should throw out
certain things. I have mostly cans and unopened jars in this closet, but
I also have an unopened bag of flour, cereal in tupperware, unopened boxes
of baking soda and a box of Kosher salt with the metal spout near the top.
Do I have to throw these out too?

Any help would be appreciated,

Thanks,

Linda

RE: .26

>	I cleaned out the closet, but I'm not sure if I should throw out
>certain things. I have mostly cans and unopened jars in this closet, but
>I also have an unopened bag of flour, cereal in tupperware, unopened boxes
>of baking soda and a box of Kosher salt with the metal spout near the top.
>Do I have to throw these out too?

The cans and unopened jars are safe.  The cereal in tupperware should be OK,
too, because the bugs can't get in.

I would worry most about that unopened bag of flour.  I suggest transferring the
flour to a large tupperware or other sealable plastic or glass container.
That way, even if the flour turns out to have bugs in it, they can't spread to
anything else.

The baking soda and kosher salt are less of a problem, but just to make sure,
I'd empty these into screw-top jars or some other sealable container.

--PSW

    The bug eggs are in the flour whan it comes from the mill so repackaging
    won't do any more than prevent changes in moisture content.
    
    The mother of a friend, Louise was her name, open a cake mix box
    to make a cake for her husband's birthday, that being his favorite kind
    of cake.  There were spiders in the box.  Louise noted that there was
    an 800 number on the box and made the call.  She explained that there
    were spiders in the box.  The lot number indicated that the box was
    2 years old.  The person from the cake company explained that the
    expected shelf life was 1 year.  Then Louise said, "You know, I figured
    I should call you bacause I looked in the ingredients list and it
    didn't mention spiders at all."  "Well, I should hope not," was the
    reply.

Re: .27

	I checked the seal on the bag of flour and it looks pretty tight,
but your suggestion of transferring things to a better container, just in 
case, is a good one.

Thanks for the ideas,

Linda

RE: .28

>    The bug eggs are in the flour whan it comes from the mill so repackaging
>    won't do any more than prevent changes in moisture content.

Sometimes this is true, sometimes it isn't.  We were talking here about an
existing problem with "shelf life".  Putting the flour in a bug-proof container
will help by either (1) keeping the bugs out, if the flour isn't infected
already, or (2) keeping the bugs from spreading to other things, if the flour
does carry eggs.

--PSW

    I had a nasty experience several years ago when I got my first
    cockatiel.  I kept the birdseed in the closet, yes, on the bottom shelf
    where we also kept food stuff.  BIG mistake!  Seems birdseed contains
    insect larvae which will hatch when it gets warm at all.  I had to
    throw everything out.  EVERYTHING that wasn't in a can or jar...
    
    Anyway, from that point forward, I would freeze the birdfood for a day
    before serving to the cockies.  Then it's stored in the fridge.  
    
    Now that we live in a house with two fridges, I also keep all my flour,
    and such in the fridge downstairs to avoid the so called flour bugs
    from getting into cereals, etc.  They can be a real hassle once you get
    them.

Last Thursday I discovered bugs in a bag of sugar I had left (it was opened) on
the top shelf of my cupboards.  On Saturday I spent the entire morning taking
dishes and food out of the cupboards to clean the shelves.  I checked every
food item and discarded anything they were in.

These bugs are not Indian Meal Moths nor weevils.  They are less than 1/8th
of an inch, white in color, don't move very fast, sort of wiggle like a worm.
My best description is they're like a book worm.  I found them in sugar,
cornstarch, baking soda, boxes of pasta, boxes containing pouches (not alive
here, just dark little bodies left) I guess they don't like knox gelatine.

Needless to say, I haven't slept properly in two nights.  I'm hoping that
someone will be able to identify this bug.  If you want a sample, I'm sure
I can dig one up from the garbage which is outside of course.

I pray I've got them all.  In the meantime I'm in search of a Tupperware
representative.

PChaplinsky

RE: .32

Relax and get some sleep.  These are the larvae of some beetle or 
bug, and, while disconcerting, are harmless.

--PSW

    yea, but how do they taste?

    Like chicken - of course.
    
    I have a good weevil recipe, if you would like me to post it.

    Well, I got some sleep last night.  I was beyond exhaustion, so at
    10 p.m. I called it quits, poured myself a small glass of Irish
    Bailey's and settled down in front of the television for a relaxing
    hour.  Last week was a hectic one and I guess lack of sleep compounded
    the situation.  I kept dreaming they were crawling all over me and I
    kept scratching my neck.  The good news is that I haven't found another
    bug since Saturday.
    
    I'm not the squeamish type, it's just the thought of eating something
    that's not listed in a recipe that upsets me.
    
    If I ever identify the critter, I will post a reply to this note.
    In the meantime, a bay leaf will not harm my sugar, my flour, my...
    
    PChaplinsky

    if you're really really curious, you could put some of the little
    beggars into a jar with some of their favorites consumables (seems
    to be just about anything) and let them metamorph..., ahh,
    change into adults.  :-)
    
    I tried that once but I think leaving it on a windowsill baked them.
    
    ed

    I hate the bugs but don't lose any sleep worring if they are in my
    food.  I repackage all of my flours, sugars, etc. in metal, glass, 
    and plastic containers.  It looks pretty and keeps the bugs out.  
    It helps me not worry about bugs in my food, now if I could solve 
    the problems of world peace, etc.
    
    Robin

    Ed - that's a gross suggestion, but it's a very good one which I will
    follow up IF I find any more.
    
    Thanks for the idea.
    
    PChaplinsky