Conference turris::cooks

    Hi, 
    
    I have a whole set of Caphalon pans.  I like them for some things,
    but not for others...  For instance, I do not recommend them for
    making eggs... very hard to clean afterwards and the eggs themselves
    tend to stick, therefore breaking up when you turn them or whatever.
    If someone else has these and doesn't have this problem, please
    let me know how you solved it!!!
    
    However, for soups, etc. they are great as they conduct the heat
    well.
    
    Would I buy them again?  Sorry, Julia, I don't think I would...
    
    But maybe I'm not using them the right way. Would appreciate advice.
    (I've had them for a couple of years.)
    
    Terry

    Another thing I just thought of...  Why not buy the big ones for
    soups, sauces, meats, etc. (they can go in the oven easily) and
    get teflon or silverstone for the frying pans?  That's what I would
    do.  Another thing I don't like about them is that the lids go IN
    the pan and don't "dome".  That mean that the pot can't be quite
    as full.
    
    

    And still another reply from me!
    
    I have some Le Crueset cookware that I really like a lot.  However,
    they are very heavy so I wouldn't get the really big ones.  But
    worth getting anyway!
    
    When I lived in Italy I had Paderno cookware.  (What a fool I was,
    I left them there when we moved back [sigh]).  That was the best
    I ever had.  
    
    P.S. I don't know if the Paderno you get here is the same as what
    I had there.  It had a "sandwiched" bottom, with aluminum in the
    middle of two layers of stainless steel.  Really conducted heat
    well.
    
    

    I've been using black cast-iron pans for about 10 years now.
    They're heavy weight, conduct and retain heat well, when they're
    seasoned things don't stick much at all, they're easy to clean,
    they don't break, there's no coating to wear off (as in Silverstone
    or Teflon), I've heard that you can actually add some iron into
    your diet by using these pans (don't know if that's just a myth),
    and they're CHEAP.  The big covered skillet is heavy when loaded
    full and lidded, but I just avoid hauling it around when it's
    full.
    
    My favorite roast/stew pot is a big oval old cast-aluminum pot
    that I got at a garage sale about 4 years ago.  The pot is about
    1/4 inch thick, and it's wonderful for making pot-roasts and
    stews.  I think I paid $10 or $15 for it.  It's similar to one
    my mom has had ever since I can remember.
    
    --Louise

        I've had Calphalon for 6-7 years now, and they are still going
        strong. The key to a non stick pan, be it calphalon, cast iron, a
        chinese wok, or any other good cookware, is to keep it properly
        seasoned. Do this regularly, and you won't need teflon or
        silverstone coatings. 
        
        The calphalon process lasts forever, as it is is an anodized
        surface, and not just a coating. When I first used mine, I thought
        I had ruined it. There were scratches all over the bottom of the
        frying pan. Turns out I had scraped it with a spatula, and scraped
        spatula off onto the pan! 7 years later they show some browning,
        like any well used pans should, but are no worse for the wear. 
        
        I have three frying pans (8, 10, 12"), two sauce pans (6, 8", much
        thicker bottoms and straight sides), two sauce pans (6, 8"), a 2
        gallon stock pot (10"), and a 4 quart dutch oven (10"). One nice
        feature is that they all use the same lids, so 4 lids will do for
        my whole set. Contrary to .1, I like the recessed lids; they don't
        get knocked off as easy, and seal better than any other lids I've
        ever used.
        
        BTW, when buying cookware like this, avoid places like Crate &
        Barrel or department stores; they rip you off. Back when I got
        mine, calphalon wasn't so popular, and I bought them from a
        restaurant supply store. You can find them in the yellow pages.
        They are more than happy to sell to home chefs, and their prices
        are about half of what they are at the fancy stores. Just don't
        expect delivery, gift boxes, or charge cards. 
        
        In addition to the pots, I got my Henkel knives, stainless
        utencils, and just about everything else there. The best find was
        stainless steel wool, used by restaurants to clean griddles. It
        doesn't include any soap, but it doesn't rust, and will last
        forever. They are great in the kitchen for anything that you used
        SOS for, cleaning the barbeque grill, housecleaning, shop, rust
        removal, etc. When one of the pads gets dirty, just stick it in
        the dishwasher and it comes out as good as new. I bought a box of
        12 pads for $.70 each, gave a couple away, and still have all the
        rest. They are great!

I agree with .-1, stay away from the fancy places for cookware.  Regarding .0, 
here are a few pointers:

For soup and sauce pans, cast metals are the best for their even heat 
distribution.

Cast metals should be seasoned to "seal" them before using.  Stay away from 
cast metals entirely if you are a clean freak that scrubs a pan to death after 
using as this removes the seasoning.

Stay away from aluminum if you plan to cook anything acidy, like tomato sauce, 
or pickles, since it imparts a metallic flavor to the food, and adds some 
toxins as well.  (I don't know if the anodizing process prevent this in 
Caphalon type cookware.)

For a skillet, make sure you have a relatively thick metal bottom.  Cast 
metal, or sandwiched (layers of copper and stainless steel), or thick 
stainless are good.  There is nothing wrong with silverstone coating, and it 
make cooking most foods much easier.  Most silverstone pans offered in the 
stores are cheap pressed aluminum, that can easily warp when overheated.  
These are subject to having their nonstickstuff chip and flake.

Covers...domed are OK since they cause the condensation to roll to the sides 
of the pan instead of dripping into the middle.  If, as a previous reply 
indicated, your pan is so full that a flat cover won't seat properly, get a 
bigger pan (you need the room for stirring).

Handles...If you plan on being able to put a pan into the oven, make sure the 
handles won't burn or melt.  This goes for the cover and the pan.  Many fine 
pans are made with all metal handles, so have a good variety of pot holders 
available.  (AVOID MITS!! They are dangerous!  If boiling liquid saturates a 
mit, you can't open you hand and drop it.)  On particularly good potholder to 
have is a "pan hanlder"...it looks like insulation for a hot dog, and slips 
over the long metal handle of most skillets.

Bottom line:  Unless you are compulsive about conformity, avoid buying sets of 
pans.  You will end up with good pans, bad pans, and pans you'll never use.  
Instead, look for individual pans that meet your needs.  

Plug: The Cook's Nook on rte 2A in Lunenburg next to Aubuchon is a very good 
place to browse the cookware.  It doesn't have track lighting, or ferns, or 
high prices.  It does have a moderate variety of cooking accouterments.

						     
							- JP

    The jury is still out on the connection between Aluminum and
    Alzhiemer's disease.  So my reccomendation is to avoid all Aluminum.
    
    An associate defines computer compatability as DIFFERENT.
    I'll define "seasoning" as DIRT.  Take one of your seasoned cast
    iron pans and put in the oven at say 400 for half an hour.  See
    what oozes from it.  Would you eat it? Yuk!
    
    The only materials usable for cooking are those that don't react
    with the food such as glass (corning /pyrex/etc) and Stainless 
    steel.
    
    Save Aluminum for storm doors!

    Has anyone gotten some of those Visions pots/pans?  They're the
    ones advertized extensively on TV - clear amber in color.  I
    looked at them this weekend - just doesn't seem *right* to have
    a frying pan made of what appears to be glass (even if it
    really is not glass but some new space-age product).
    
    --Louise

    Could someone please describe the proper way to season cast iron?
    Does it matter if you use Crisco, bacon grease, lard or oil?? 
    
    Should you also do the outside?
    
    A friend says her grandmother boils potato peelings in hers every
    once-in-a-while to keep it seasoned - I don't see how this would
    work, but am willing to try anything!
    
    Thanks,
    
    Terry

    First, wash the pan well to get rid of any manufacturing scraps
    and oils (for new pans) or anything rancid (for old pans).  Then
    put the pan over medium heat until all the water is boiled off.
    Get out some oil - some of the high-temp stuff like peanut oil
    usually - and wipe a thin coat over the inside of the pan with
    a thickly folded paper towel (so you don't burn yourself).  Put
    the pan back over medium heat until the oil is absorbed.  Let it
    cool.  If it's a new pan, you may need to repeat the oiling,
    heating, cooling process.
    
    I'm not of the school that you should never wash cast-iron with
    soap - you need to get the gunk off of it.  I wash with soap
    when the pan looks dirty.  Then I reseason it before storing.
    The only time I don't wash with soap is if I can wipe the pan
    clean after using it, such as when I use the griddle for pancakes.
    If I've cooked any meat in a pan, I wash it very well.  No sense
    courting disaster (at least not in this way!).

    I just bought a set of Visions pots. I'm still getting used to
    cooking with it, it takes less heat than most pots. But I like
    it. The pans clean much easier than I expected. And it's nice to
    not have to worry so much about using the 'right' kind of utensils
    so the coating doesn't get cut, like iwth Silverstone.
    kris

	The purpose of seasoning a cast pan is to fill in the "pores"
	with oil before they get filled in with other foods.  It not
	olny helps cut down on sticking, but prevents the pan from 
	imparting the flavor of yesterday's lunch to todays dinner.
	There will always be a small amount of "used" oil in the pan,
	but if the pan oozes when heated, there is something wrong.
	I don't recommend heating a pan for long at 400, without putting
	something in it as this will cause the seasoning to burn, 
	which is the only time you should ever take steel wool to a 
	seasoned pan!

	Seasoning cast anything should never be done with animal fat, 
	unless you live in an igloo, in which case whale fat is fine,
	since the cold keeps it from turning rancid.  Peanut or Safflower 
	oil is about the best for this job.

	After washing a new pan, heat it to dry it, then wipe it with a 
	generous coating of oil.  Some folks recommend salting the pan.
	I've tried it both with and without the salt, and there is no 
	apparent difference (and no apparent saltiness of the foods 
	prepared thereafter).  DO NOT oil the outer surfaces, as this
	will cause lots of problems when the oil comes in contact with 
	the heat source.

	I usually bake the oiled pan in the oven at 250F for an hour.
	Let it cool in the oven and wipe it with a paper towel.  Once 
	is usually enough for a new pan.  

	You should reseason the pan after you use it to boil anything
	or after it is washed, WITH OR WITHOUT SOAP.  (Boiling potato 
	peels will not season a pan.)  To reseason it, heat it until
	dry, then wipe the inner surface with a thin film of oil while
	still warm.  Let it cool, wipe the excess oil off, and store.
	I usually store the pan with a couple of layers of paper towels
	in it to protect the seasoning.

						     
							- JP

    
    	RE: .8, .11 Vision Pans.
    
    	We have some - Here are some pros and cons as I see them:              
    
    	PRO:
    	1) Can be put in the oven like a baking dish.
    	2) Fairly cheap, compared to "real" pans (at least in England).
    	
    	CON:
    	1) They break when you drop them.
    	2) They are very "stick" (as opposed to non-stick...). For example,
    making sauces will almost always result in burnt residues on the
    bottom of the pan. Even boiled potatoes will stick at the points
    they were touching the bottom, unless you stir them occasionally.
    	3) Heat travels through them very slowly - so if you get the
    pan too hot, you can't just take it off the heat to cool it down
    immediately.

    
    	They're OK - but if you can afford decent metal pans, I'd get
    those...
        
    
    Trev

    I've cooked with a cast iron pan for as long as I can remember and
    have never had to reseason the pan unless I've had to really scrub
    it (as with steel wool) for some reason.  I also ALWAYS wash my
    cast iron with soap.  I'm just very careful not to use anything
    harsher on it than your standard washing liquid (Ivory, Joy, etc.)
    and a sponge or cloth dish rag.  I'd never consider putting it up
    without washing it first.  Even with this I've not had to re-oil
    the pan before using it again.
    
    I've found that if I get a pan really seasoned I don't have anymore
    problems with it.  By really seasoned I mean that it should still
    feel very slightly oily even after washing.  I've found several
    ways to do it.  One is to use the pan for nothing but frying (things
    like bacon are great) until it's seasoned.  The other thing I've
    done is fry something in it and then leave the pan to sit UNWASHED
    (don't even wipe it out) for 2 or 3 days.  During this time it helps
    is you reheat the pan to melt the grease again a couple of times
    a day.
    
    My grandmother always told me to use the method of putting the pan
    in the oven.  What she does is put just enough grease in the pan
    to coat it and then set it in a hot oven (about 300 I think) and
    leave it until all of the grease is burned out.  She says that it
    smokes very bad but at this point you should just keep an eye on
    it to make sure that no fire starts and don't worry about the smoke.
    
    Good luck,
    
    Irene

    re: .0
    
    	You might want to look into Master Chef Pans (All Clad). 
	They're aluminum on the exterior and stainless 
	steel on the interior. They're layered in such a way as 
	to prevent burning. I've been using mine
	for 2 years now. They're fairly expensive but you can get a starter
    	set for under $200 or so. Master Chef also makes a set with black
    	anodized exteriors but I don't know anyone who has those.

    
    	Bill

    I agree with .13 on the Visions cookware in regards to
    how easy many foods stick and don't clean up easily. I
    bought my 3 pan set a few years ago for about $10 and
    can see why. They are ready for the yard sale box. As
    far as Calphalon goes I have a few of these and am very
    pleased with them...only wish I had thought of buying the
    set at a restaurant supply store to save some money.
    

I've been cooking for 31 of my 40 years:

gourmet cooking pots usually separate you from vast quantities of money.
other than that, they really aren't necessary.  I use cast iron, well
seasoned for my frying pans (refer to previous replies for methods -
my mother always taught me to rub the pan with crisco and salt and then
heat thoroughly on the stove top...but whatever works).
I have a very good set of heavy steel pots for sauce, soups, etc. and
some light steel pots for pasta and steaming vegetables...what I am
really saying is that one brand of cookware will probably not really
take care of your needs...

I support the ban on aluminum cookware, period....no sense in taking
chances.

Visions stuff works in the microwave really nice.

    The reason I haven't seasoned my Calphalon pans is that the directions
    say that it isn't necessary.  But I think I will try it anyway.
    
    Terry

    I bought my mother a set of Revereware pots and pans about two years
    ago.  She uses them everyday and they still look brand new.  One
    of the reasons I bought them for her was the 25 year guarantee.
    
    Another reason was that my aunt has a set that are about 10 years
    old and they are in great shape.  (We used her pans as noisemakers
    many a New Year's Eve! ;^)  )
    
    I'm getting married and I even bought myself a set.  I also bought
    myself a set of cast iron pans for frying.  Thanks for the info
    on seasoning them!
    
    Colleen
    

    
    My mother got a set of Revere Ware as a wedding gift - 32 years
    ago.  She has never purchased any other pots/pans.  The Revere Ware
    is in like-new condition, they've held up extremely well.
    
    They're not made as sturdily as they once were, but are still
    guaranteed for a long period of time.  The only disadvantage as
    far as I'm concerned is the copper bottom - you have to keep it
    clean and it's almost as much bother as polishing the silver!
    
    Mike

	Revereware also makes sets of stainless...they hide the copper 
	inside, so you still get the heat distribution bennies without
	the cleanup hassles.

						     
							- JP

    I have been in the market for some professional pans myself. Taking
    some good advice from the "Frugal Gourmet" instead of being tempted
    to buy a starter set on sale...I bought one piece to try out before
    making my investment.
    
    I bought a dutch saute 11" by BELIQUE.  It's perfect with a layered
    bottom, all metal with "keep-cool" handle and opposite grip. I am
    going to buy a small set for myself for Christmas.  In fact they
    are on sale in a number of places, including Jordan Marsh.
    
    One mistake I did make was believing that I did not have to season
    the pan...the first thing I cooked in it was Rainbow Trout. Now
    whenever I warm up the pan I get a whiff of the great outdoors.
    Fortunately not the taste.
    
    CMM

	re: .22

	If the odor of fish lingers, simmer some vinegar in the pan for
	about 5 minutes, dry, and then reseason.  This has worked for me
	in the past when my cast skillet picked up some foul odors.

						     
							- JP

    re: .20
    
    Why do you *have* to keep the copper bottoms polished?  I can
    understand if you have them displayed in your kitchen, but if they
    are stored in a cabinet, I don't see why you have to do anything
    but wash them with soap and water.
    
    Cathy
    

	Once I set a revereware pot down on top of a dirty plate that 
	had tomato sauce on it, and left it until I did the dishes.
	WOW!  It cleaned off most all the tough stains.  I have since 
	found that ketchup works just as well.  I just wonder when I'm
	finally going to eat all the way thru the copper?

						     
							- JP

    If you're out of Ragu, you can sprinkle salt over the bottom of
    the pan, then sprinkle drops of vinegar on it to make a kind of
    paste - easy, cheap, and no one ever runs off with the jar to polish
    their Harley Davidson!

    I found sauerkraut does the trick too!  I cooked it with pork chops
    in a stainless steel pan that I had burned something in and hadn't
    cleaned well (dishwasher doesn't work well on that stuff).  It was
    shiny as could be after the kraut.  And to think we eat this stuff!
    

    
    The copper plays a part in the proper heating of the pan - if it's
    coated with grunge - the heating job becomes tougher.
    
    My mother's Revereware set has been heavily used for almost 32 years
    and the copper hasn't come off yet.  My wife and have a cheapo set
    of copper-bottomed cookware that we'd won somewhere, it's about
    4 years old and the copper is almost gone (and we'd never scrubbed
    it)!  Revereware is really superior.
    
    Mike

	The grunge coating doesn't make too much difference to the 
	cooking.  The copper serves to spread the heat evenly, and even
	works when it's encased in stainless steel, like the new silver
	bottom revereware pans.

						     
							- JP

    By the way, is it just me or are the new revereware pots lighter
    than the old ones?  Does anyone know if they downgraded their
    pots, or if they changed materials and so are able to use thinner
    gauges?
    
    --Louise

    
    My mother's 32 year old set is definitely heavier than the new ones.   
    Thinner grade of metal?
    
    Mike                        
    

    Re:  .1  
    
>>     but not for others...  For instance, I do not recommend them for
>>  making eggs... very hard to clean afterwards and the eggs themselves
>>  tend to stick, therefore breaking up when you turn them or whatever.
  
    I see this was asked a long time ago, I got vectored into here from
    the new Cuisinart vs. Calphalon note.
    
    I'm really surprised by this comment!!  I have been making eggs
    in an anodized aluminum pan for a long time -- and it is as close
    to non-stick as you can get wwithout Teflon.
    
    It may be a technique problem.  Jeff Smith (the Frugal Gourmet)
    emphasizes "hot pan -- add oil -- things won't stick".  This means
    that you get the pan up to operating temperature first.  It works
    for me.  A recipe for disaster (with any pan) is to start with
    a blob of butter in a cold pan and add eggs as soon as the butter
    melts.  If you're using butter, you should wait until the foam
    starts to subside (per Julia).
    
    dq
    
    

    We (like most people) have an assortment of pots & pans. The good old
    cast iron skillets still do a nice job if you heat them slowly.
    Otherwise they don't heat too evenly. This doesn't bother some things,
    but omelettes don't appreciate it. 
    
    We've gotten rid of all of our aluminum - you could taste it in a lot
    of foods, and the sight of a newly bright pan after cooking fruit or
    tomatoes was too scary. I've shied away from Calphalon and Leyse
    because I don't have the patience to avoid scratching with forks and
    spoons (we've given up on Teflon-lined cookware), and, underneath those
    nice, unscratched anodized finishes, they're aluminum. 
    
    What we really found that we like (have to admit we grossly overpaid)
    was the Farberware "Advantage" line that was available a few years ago.
    We started with a medium size sauce pan, and were real pleased. It's a
    laminated stainless/ aluminum/ stainless, with the aluminum inside
    layer going up the entire side. The difference in a sauce was really
    noticeable. The only thing better is solid copper, and that's just too
    much trouble for pot-scratchers like us. But I haven't seen this line
    of cookware in the stores for a while. Cuisinart, and the other brands
    that have a thick layer of aluminum or copper on the bottom (we have an
    old Revere pot that's great), with stainless inside, are probably just
    about as good. 
    
    Anyway, we ended up getting a whole set. The most useful turn out to be
    the big skillets (I've even taken to using them in place of a wok for
    stir frying). Next are the saucepans. Last the big pots. You don't need
    high-tech heat transfer to boil water. They do a nice job on spaghetti
    sauce, though, I must admit. 

    If ever I develop the patience and discipline, I'll get a whole set of
    heavy copper. once you used a good copper saucepan over a restaurant
    gas stove, you get real spoiled. It just seems like things refuse to
    burn.
    
    - Mike 

There is only one reply in here that mentions the BELGIQUE line of cookware. 
I happened to notice this cookware and I was impressed and am very seriously 
thinking of buying a few pieces. Does anyone know if it's available through 
restaurant supply stores? And also any pros or cons about this particular 
brand would also be appreciated.

Rachelle 

    			( BELGIQUE COOKWARE )
    
I received this cookware as a gift and I have been adding pieces to
    my set in the past year, and I love it. The only place I have been
    able to find it is at Jordon Marsh, they have it on sale both in
    sets and open stock about every other month. A starter set on sale
    goes for @ $80.00

    
    Has anyone seen Farberware Advantage anywhere lately?  We recieved some
    of this cookware a while back but can't seem to find it anywhere
    anymore.  It is excellent quality!
    
    						.dave.

    RE .34
    
    You might want to try Westerman Rest. Supply on green st. in Worcester.
    could be a saving over J.M. 
    
    

This weekend I bought a set of cuisinart commercial cookware and would like to
hang it over the island in my kitchen.  Does anyone know where in the Northeast
I can find a metal pot rack??

Thanks,  Anne

P.S. cuisinart commercial is on sale at Lechmere all week for 33% off, if
anyones interested.

>                                Does anyone know where in the Northeast
>      I can find a metal pot rack??

That covers a lot of territory...   Most stores in "The Joy of Cooking" 
chain carry them, and there's a kitchen place on Rte. 101A in Nashua 
that I believe is called "The Kitchen Place" where I got one.  In Acton 
MA, there's Cooking Comforts in the Acton Mall.  I'm surprised you 
didn't find one at Lechmere; they used to carry them.  William Sonoma in 
Boston (Copley Plaza?) would also carry them.

I got one from the Caphalon or Cephalon or whatever that aluminum pot 
company's name is.  It's pretty nice.  I liked the hooks that couldn't 
fall off.  My previous pot rack didn't have those, and required some 
finesse when getting a pot down.

Actually, the question would be more challenging if it were "where is
there a place that doesn't sell metal pot racks?" 

    When I was in David Mellors in Covent Garden the other day
    they had some wonderful-looking Italian pots and pans from
    a range called Le Pentole.  They were a wonderful-looking price
    too.  It said in the brochure that they were designed so you could
    fry things in them without using fat.  Has anyone any experience
    of using these pans?  I could never afford the set, but I might
    buy one if they are as good as they are supposed to be.
    
    Alison

    I agree with .32. I've been cooking eggs with my Calphlon for a
    while with no sticking.  Heat the pan up first and then add 
    oil or butter. Just remember to control the heat. Not too high
    for eggs.
    
    I also believe that the anodized coating will keeps the aluminum
    in and the food out so that the two do not mix.  It is able to
    hold up to metal cookware pretty well.
    
    Has anyone had any experience seasoning (if necessary) the stir
    fry pan to prevent sticking? May be I am using it incorrectly
    with my electric stove. My Joyce Chen pan with an outdoor propane
    burner works nicely.
    
    --wch--

	I have not seen mention of the Saladmaster line of cookware
	in this notesfile. Does anyone have any experience with
	these items ? Can anyone give me some (CURRENT) prices ?
	The company will not give me a price until they come to my
	house and demonstrate the cookware. I am intrigued by the
	ads.

Ed Swartz

    re.42 
        I was lucky enough to purchase a set of Saladmaster cookware
        over 15 years ago.  I truly enjoy them, they are my favorite
        cookware (copper bottomed revereware next).  Easy to clean,
        great for oven or stove top. I dont even need a double boiler
        when I make fudge!they are so nice and thick.  I really miss
        them, they are still in storage in Phoenix, but I'll be bringing
        them home next visit to the "parental units". 
        Sorry I dont know the current asking price but they are a 
        good investment.

re .0
 Joe,
	We've used the Calphalon for a year or so now and love it.  I've
had waterless stainless steel in the past and gradually we are replacing it
with the Calphalon.  It cooks evenly, cleans easily (the only food we've had
difficulty with is scrambled eggs) and gets an unqualified endorsement from
me.  The only drawback I see is the $$$$.

Al
    

re .0, .2:

I received a Calphalon frying pan last Christmas and I have also had problems
with eggs sticking.  I made the mistake of trying omelets in it and one other
time started making french toast.  The egg sticks and burns.  I have also
noticed that when I cook sausage in the Calphalon pan, the meat doesn't seem to
render as much fat as when I cook it in cast iron or other types of pans.  I
know that sounds strange, but there never seems to be as much fat to drain off
when I'm using the Calphalon pan.  Those two points aside, I really like the
Calphalon.  It heats evenly and clean up is EASY.  The directions suggest that
if there is any residue on the pan that you clean it with Comet (or similar
scrub) and then wash it again.  No seasoning or special care necessary.

    Gee, I have a Calphalon 7" pan which I use for nothing except omelets
    and it's wonderful. I seasoned the pan when I first got it and never
    put it in the dishwasher. After I wash it, I gently heat it and
    wipe it with a paper towel and about 3 drops of olive oil. I treat
    it very much as good cast iron should be treated.
    
    I don't use much butter to make the omelets, but they slide gently
    onto the plate and it's perfect for stuffing them with goodies and
    folding over on the plate.
    
    Tamzen

    I also use calphalon for eggs, and have no trouble at all.  Just
    soak the pan while you eat, and it will clean right up.  Also,
    Calphalon gives you a cleaner when you buy a set, and it takes off
    any residue.  I don't season my pots/pans, and have had no trouble
    with cleaning!
    
    I love them, and am still trying to add to my collection.
    
    Jen
    

    
    A friend of mine is a professional chef, and he won't use anything
    but calphalon!  He says it's fantastic.  I mentioned to him that
    alot of people in this conference had trouble with eggs sticking
    and he said that seasoning the cookware should help (right again Tamzen!).
                                           
    Good luck!
    
    Danielle 

After reading that others had no problem with cooking eggs in Calphalon, I went
home and double checked the directions.  It does have a special section which
describes how to cook eggs.  I've been meaning to type in the exact directions,
but I've been forgetful...  At any rate, I'll have to try it out again!

    
    
      So let me understand this. When I do get a set of Calphalon I
    should season it with olive oil and just hand wash it? What would
    happen if I just put it in the dishwasher, and when the cycle was
    over and before I put it away, I seasoned it again??
    
    					Joe

    
    
      Forget .8, I did get a set of calphalon for Christmas and it says
    right on the directions that the dishwasher soap is to caustic and
    will ruin the surface. Boy, and I just installed my very first
    dishwasher and was loving not having to hand wash dishes anymore.
    Does this mean I have to get a wife to wash my new cookware??? Nahh,
    humm... maybe if I put a small amount of regular soap in the dishwasher
    it would not suds up to much and still get the cookware clean, humm......

{
 This should have been in the War Stories note.  I ran out of dishwasher
 detergent and figured that the regular stuff should work just as fine.  I
 even used a lot less than usual.

  I've never seen so many suds!  The kitchen floor was covered with them.
  Talk about a pain in the a** to get the dishwasher usable again and not
  spitting out suds.
}

                     < THE SUMMARY PLEASE>
    
    AS AN EXPERIENCED SELLER OF POTS AND PANS I WOULD LIKE TO OFFER
    THIS SUMMARY OF WHO SHOULD BUY WHAT. I FEEL THIS IS NECESSARY AS
    THERE IS A LACK OF KNOWLEDGE AMONG THOSE WHO SELL IT AND MANY 
    MISCONCEPTIONS.
    
    CALPHALON- THESE ARE DEFINITELY THE BEST POTS YOUR MONEY CAN BUY.
               THEY COME WITH A 100 YEAR WARRANTY AND ARE LITERALLY
               INDESTRUCTIBLE. THEY DO STICK SOMETIMES BUT USUALLY THE
               PROBLEM IS HEAT THAT IS TOO HIGH. GOOD POTS NEED ONLY
               MEDIUM TO LOW HEAT. (HIGH HEAT ON YOUR STOVE IS OVER
               500 DEGREES) HOWEVER THE DRAWBACK IS THE PRICE. ONLY
               AN EXPERIENCED COOK COULD TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
               CALPHALON AND SOME OF THE CHEAPER BRANDS-MEYER GREYFORGE
               AND THE LIKE.
    
    LE CREUSET- CAST IRON IS GOOD FOR SOME THINGS LIKE RICE AND CAJUN
                COOKING. THE IRON THAT SEEPS INTO YOUR FOOD IS SO MINIMAL
                IT SHOULD NOT BE A CONSIDERATION.
    
    ALUMINUM PANS- THESE ARE ALRIGHT WHEN YOU DO NOT USE THEM FOR COOKING
                   ANYTHING ACIDY-LEMON JUICE OR TOMATOES. ANYTIME THE
                   INSIDE IS COATED THEN IT IS ALRIGHT. OR IN THE CASE
                   OF ANODIZED COOKWARE (CALPHALON) THE ALUMINUM HAS
                   BEEN MADE NON POROUS SO IT WILL NOT LEEK INTO YOUR
                   FOOD.
    
    STAINLESS STEEL- WITH COPPER BOTTOMS IS NOT NECESSARY. THE AMOUNT
                     OF COPPER USED TO ACHEIVE THE RIGHT EFFECT IS LES
                     THAN THE AMOUNT OF ALUMINUM. SO YOU CAN BUY EITHER
                     STYLE OF SAY THE REVERE POTS AND GET THE SAME QUALITY.
                     YES BOTH REVERE AND FARBERWARE PANS ARE MUCH LIGHTER
                     THAN MOMS AND THE WARRANTY IS ONLY 10 YEARS NOW.
                     THE MAIN THING TO REMEMBER IS THAT YOU ARE REALLY
                     DEFEATING YOUR PURPOSE BECAUSE STAINLESS STEEL
                     IS A HORRIBLE CONDUCTOR OF HEAT. NO MATTER WHAT
                     IS PLACED ON THE BOTTOM YOU WILL STILL HAVE A STICKY
                     PAN AND HOT SPOTS. 
    
    SO THE KEYS TO BUYING THE POTS AND PANS CORRECT FOR YOU IS TO CONSIDER
    HOW MUCH YOU COOK, WHAT YOU COOK, AND WHAT YOU CAN AFFORD. DON'T
    FEEL THAT YOU MUST BUY A SET. THEY ARE USUALLY SLIGHTLY CHEAPER
    THAT WAY BUT YOU DON'T USUALLY GET THE POTS YOU NEED AND YOU MAY
    WANT CERTAIN POTS FOR CERTAIN THINGS. I WOULD RECOMMEND CALPHALON-
    IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT-FOR BASIC ITEMS LIKE SAUCEPANS AND STOCKPOTS.
    CALPHALON ALSO HAS ALOT OF SPECIALTY PANS AND LITERALLY THE BEST
    WOK. (THE BEST ELECTRIC WOK IS DEFINITELY THE MAXIM WHICH IS ALSO
    ANODIZED ALUMINUM) FOR CAJUN COOKING OR RICE COOKING, LE CREUSET
    IS GOOD BUT HARDWARE STORES CARRY YOUR BASIC BLACK CAST IRON FOR
    ABOUT A FOURTH OF THE COST. FOR FRYING, NOTHING BEATS SILVERSTONE-
    NO GREASE OR VERY LITTLE IS GOOD FOR THE HEALTH WHEN YOU INSIST
    ON FRYING. SO SERIOUSLY CONSIDER MIXING AND MATCHING POTS AND PANS
    AND ALWAYS BUY ON SALE. ANY STORE CAN TELL YOU IF AN ITEM GOES ON
    SALE AND ANY GOOD SALES CLERK SHOULD BE ABLE TO TELL YOU HOW OFTEN.
    THERE IS VERY LITTLE REASON TO BUY ANYTHING AT REGULAR PRICE. 
    I HOPE THIS INFORMATION HELPS SOMEONE. 
    
    JUDY
                 
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

    You didn't mention solid copper lined with tin.  Was that an oversight?
    
    							Pat

    Does anyone know anything about Towncraft?  I went to a home demo last
    night.  It was a very impressive demo -- fried chicken with no oil,
    cooked meatloaf and veggies in different pots but on same burner, and
    lots of other stuff.  Also told us about what toxins are created when
    you cook in other pans (theirs are made out of surgical steel so no
    toxins)
    
    I am naive when it comes to cookware - The stuff seems to be really
    neat but is it worth buying?  I guess it is expensive - they won't talk
    price at the party but come to your house for the sales pitch.

  I don't know anything about Towncraft cookware, but in my experience,
  most expensive home-demo'ed cookware is of good quality. If you're in
  the market for new cookware, it may not be a bad deal, though you
  probably could do better if you shopped around.

  Unless there's something new on toxins in cookware, the ones you need
  to worry about are bare copper, bare aluminum (the anodized surfaces
  of Calphalon are supposedly ok) and, to a slight degree, Teflon, which
  forms toxic substances at something over 600 degrees, which could
  happen under some extreme circumstances (i.e., food charred beyond
  recognition and melted cookware). If your own cookware is stainless
  steel (any kind), cast iron, ceramic or glass, then you already have
  the "state of the art" in safe cookware.

  As to whether Towncraft cooks better than what you currently own, I
  suggest you try the cooking exercises which were performed in the
  demo, exactly as you saw them done. If your cookware does the job as
  well or almost as well, you probably don't need to spend any money.
  Many times, the cookware used in the demo is impressive only because
  the person doing the demo is doing a great job. They could probably do
  just as impressive a job with your stuff. Try it out and let us know
  if your stuff is really inferior.

    Mike, I've heard about aluminum and Alzheimer's -- what's the
    deal with bare copper?
    
    					curious,
    					andrew

    Mike, what does bare aluminum look like.  I have aluminum pots that
    I purchased through a demonstration many years ago and have wondered
    ever since I heard about possible toxins if they were toxic. Also,
    if you don't mind what does anodized surfaces look like and what
    is Calphalon.  
    
    Thanks for letting me draw on your knowledge.
    
    Flo

    I am looking for a good (not a Yuppie level of best at any cost) set
    of pots & pans for the wife for x-mas.  Bradlees has a 12-pc Revere set
    for 89.99 that looks like a good deal.  They come in copper or aluminum
    clad bottoms.

    My first question is what is the pro/cons of copper vs aluminum clad
    bottoms?  My engineering mind says copper would heat more uniform but
    my sister said she would get the aluminum because it doesn't tarnish.
    We have one Revere copper clad pot that we have owned for years and
    it looks fine to me.  (course I am happy with the mix-match set of
    pots he have now so I guess I am no judge)  

    My second question(questions) is how do you like Revere brand and
    is this a good buy for an average cook.  The set includes 1,2,& 3 qt
    covered pans, 8-qt covered dutch oven, 2-qt steamer and 1 1/2 qt double
    broiler inserts, also 7" and 9" skillets for $89.99.

    -JFK-

    Seems to me that Revere has gone downhill in the last 10 years.
    We have an older Revere pot with double-boiler insert, and it
    seems much heavier than the current revere pots.  Also have their
    large stock pot, which we bought a year or two ago, and it seems
    lighter/thinner?  
    
    I like a heavier weight for smaller pots and for skillets, since
    I find it harder to burn things on in heavier pans.  The lighter
    weight is fine for a stock pot, since it's filled with liquid
    when it's used.
    
    --Louise

        John:                                                 

	My wife and I received a set of Revere copper bottom pots
	and pans eight years ago for a wedding gift. We have all the
    	pieces you mentioned. We use them all the time and have been
	very happy with them. They heat very uniformly and quickly.

		 The copper is really not difficult to clean if you
	 use "their" copper cleaner. It is in a powder form and quite 
	inexpensive. Lasts a long time, too!


	Bill
             

  On bare copper and aluminum pans, as mentioned, aluminum has been
  found in the brains of Alzheimer's victims, and both aluminum and
  copper react with acidic foods, such as fruits and vegetables
  (tomatoes, strawberries, lemons, etc), to form salts of these metals.
  The long term effects aren't really known, though we've recently been
  warned of high copper content in our well water as being something to
  possibly watch out for (though everyone still has copper pipes). Any
  of these salts in high enough concentrations would be toxic, but so is
  plain old table salt, only much less so. I don't have a great personal
  dread of these relatively small risks, but I definitely don't like the
  metallic flavor of some foods cooked in aluminum pots and pans.

  You can't buy bare copper pots. They're always lined with tin or
  stainless steel. But tin eventually wears off and exposes the copper,
  so tin-lined pots need to be retinned every so often. You can buy bare
  copper bowls for beating egg whites, where, for some reason, it really
  makes a difference, and isn't considered to be a health risk.

  Bare aluminum is still popular in pots and pans. Aluminum pans, if
  heavy enough, spread heat really well and are much less likely to burn
  food than plain stainless steel or cast iron. How can you tell if
  you've got bare aluminum? Easy: if it's not Teflon-coated or finished
  with that dark grey "professional" looking finish, it's bare aluminum.
  Most aluminum pots and pans are bare, even good ones like Club.
  Calphalon is a brand name of one of the "yuppie gourmet" lines of
  heavy "professional" quality aluminum cookware. The anodized coating
  (an electrochemical process which is supposed to be very durable) is
  supposed to completely prevent bare aluminum from touching the food. I
  don't own any, so can't say how easily it might scratch with metal
  utensils, but everyone I know who owns it likes it a lot. It's
  probably in the same price range as the Towncraft stuff you saw
  demo'ed -- expensive.

  I agree with Louise that recent Revere and Farber stainless cookware
  is much lighter than it used to be. We have a copper-clad Revere
  saucepan which is about 12 years old, and it's MUCH lighter than my
  mother's 30-year-old stuff. The stuff in the stores today is even
  lighter. It also burns much more food than our "gourmet" cookware
  (All-Clad, which is heavy aluminum lined with stainless steel). But,
  for most everyday cooking, where perfectly even heat isn't a big
  requirement (i.e., you're not making hollandaise sauce or fancy
  omelettes), I think the aluminum clad stainless from Farber and Revere
  is perfectly good, and a great buy. I prefer the aluminum cladding to
  the copper, because they don't seem use enough copper to really do the
  trick (it's more for show), where as aluminum is cheap enough for them
  to use enough. And aluminum doesn't tarnish, but, as was mentioned,
  the Revere copper cleaner works great, and is a snap to use (just
  sprinkle on, wipe a little with a sponge, and rinse off). 

  Should you get rid of your bare aluminum pots and pans? If you worry
  about POSSIBLE (nothing proven) links to diseases, or just want to be
  EXTRA careful, or if you can taste the aluminum in your spaghetti
  sauce, then, yes, you should replace them. Or, if you're a fussy cook
  who sometimes makes difficult dishes, or think you might be one day,
  you would really appreciate the amazingly even heat of the heavy
  "professional" aluminum cookware, which is either anodized or lined
  with stainless steel. I don't know if Towncraft is as expensive or
  would cook as well, but I do know that Calphalon, Magnalite, All-Clad
  and MasterChef are all excellent brands.

    The Revere stainless pans used to have a copper core, so they had the
    same heat distribution as the copper clad.  But I don't know if that
    still applies.  I have a set of copper bottoms (I keep them in the
    cabinets, or in use on the stove, and NEVER polish the bottoms!)  The
    Revere skillets are the worst!

    As to aluminum pans, there are 2 kinds of aluminum.  Cast, like most
    good cookware, and "pressed beer can".  These are the really
    inexpensive pots that can be dented or bent by hand.  Better to buy
    aluminum foil.  The cast aluminum pans have the same kinds of pores
    that cast iron does.  Cast aluminum is much lighter, non-magnetic and a
    sort of silver gray.  Most anodized pots are charcoal gray.
    
    By the way, back in school, a classmate made a flute from a copper pipe
    for a project.  She had to shellac the pipe because saliva and copper
    react to form a toxin.  (Trivia I remember, but what the heck was a
    fourier transform?)

    I recently read this concerning aluminum. It is a question written by a
    reader of Prevention magazine.
    
    
    Rachelle �
    
    
    From the November 1989 issue of Prevention letters to the editor:
    
    Put Your Aluminum Fears to Rest
    
    In the July 1988 'Dictionary', alum is described as an aluminum
    derivative, used commonly in such things as styptic pencils and
    deodorants. Is this the same alum that is used as a spice in foods like
    pickles? I've heard that aluminum is not healthful for the body and has
    been connected with Alzheimer's disease. Should I avoid excess
    quantities? 
    								
    Editor: Yes, alum is used in a wide variety of products, including
    pickles, but current evidence does not support avoiding aluminum. The
    Alzheimer's Association, along with other experts, say the link between
    aluminum and Alzheimer's is not al all strong enough to warrant an
    aluminum boycott, or even aluminum avoidance.
    
    It's true that abnormally high amounts of aluminum have been found in
    the brains of Alzheimer's patients. But that doesn't mean that aluminum
    caused the disease. In fact, the opposite may be true. Here's the
    theory: Healthy brains seem to have a barrier against excess aluminum.
    Scientists speculate that having Alzheimer's may somehow dismantle this
    barrier, causing aluminum to collect in the brain. Rather than aluminum
    causing Alzheimer's, Alzheimer's may be causing the aluminum buildup.
    

  Does anyone have one of the heavy aluminum flat-bottom woks? I'm
  considering getting one of these as a Xmas present for someone who
  currently has both flat skillets (cast iron and heavy aluminum) and a
  round-bottom wok, and has various complaints about all of these. I
  figure that a flat-bottom wok is a very practical piece of cookware,
  and that one of the heavy aluminum models would be especially nice.
  I've seen these made by Calphalon (anodized aluminum) and Master-Chef
  (stainless steel lined), for around $100, and was wondering if they're
  really as versatile and effective as they seem. Thanks for any info
  anyone has.

  Does anyone have a Teflon-coated rolling pin? If so, is it as
  effective as one would imagine in not sticking to pastry dough? Thanks
  very much in advance.

    
    
    re: .57  flat-bottom wok
    
    I don't have one but did buy one for my father last Xmas. Mostly
    because of the type of stove he has. The solid burner type electric.
    I did use it once and it was fine. I don't remember the brand but
    it is of heavy guage aluminum. The only difference I found is that
    it's a little harder to use than a traditional. Not in temperature
    control or anything, but just in moving the food around. I suppose
    it would just be a matter of getting used to it tho. 
    
    Paul

    re: .58
    
    I have one of the "no-stick" rolling pins. You still have to use flour,
    but much less than with a regular rolling pin.  So far I have used it
    for both pie crust and for cookies. It's enough better than my old
    wodden one, that I'm glad to have it.

Re last two replies, thanks very much. I think I'll pass on the heavy aluminum
flat-bottom wok, and go for the Teflon-coated rolling pin (they're not for the
same person :-). I recently saw this rolling pin in a cooking specialty store
for under $10.

    
    I have been looking for some good saute pans and I hit the jackpot this
    weekend. I wanted pans with the silverstone finish but I didn't want
    cheapos. I happened to come across some Meyer professional 10" & 12"
    aluminum saute pans with the silverstone finish at Spag's. I have never
    heard of that brand name but the construction of the pan was way above
    the norm so I bought the 10" & 12". 
    
    I used them over weekend and I love them! There is an inscription under
    the pan that says they are spec'ed for commercial use.  
    
    Rachelle �
    
    

rep -.1

<    Anyone in Colorado Springs know of a place that sells Calphalon
<    cookware, cheap?
<    

  You must be kidding.  There ain't no such thing as CALPHALON CHEAP!!!

   I've been told by one MA. dealer that the CALPHALON mfr. has a clause in his
distributor contract which prevents retailers from "discounting" CALPHALON
products.

 I guess that keeps all the retailers at about the same price range.

 Sounds like price fixing to me!!! 

  I've seen some 10% and 20% off sales occaisonally (usually unadvertised), but
generally the retail price is within a few dollars no matter where you go, even
in the catalogs. 

Al

    Well, I finally bought my Calphalon (Colorado Springs).  I bought
    it at the Culinary Corner in the Citadel.  The reason is because
    it was 20% off all cookware.
    
    I bought the starter set: 1 1/2 qt saucepan, 2 1/2 qt saucepan,
    8 1/2 qt stock pot, 10" skillet, includes covers and 1 handle
    cover for $199.00.  I also bought a griddle, normally $70 but I
    paid $56.
    
    So far I love it...I have had no problems with anything sticking
    (including eggs).  After I wash them I put a little oil on the inside.
    The manufacturer suggested doing this until the pans are used 5
    or 6 times.  
    
    K
    

I know this isn't the right note for this question, but rather than start a 
new note or spend another 20 minutes looking ....

After reading all the wonderful comments about those cushioned cookie 
sheets I invested in one and finally got to try it out on Halloween 
cookies.  I made plain sugar cookies and ended up having to cook them about 
3 times as long as the recipe said because the bottoms never cooked.  I know 
the cushioned sheets are supposed to prevent burning, but this was ridiculous.  
Every 2 minutes I had to go back and check to see if they were done.

What's the story on the baking times with this type of cookie sheet?  And 
if anyone knows where this note should really be posted, please let me 
know.

Thanks.

Barbara

    I think you're looking for note 2578.*.  I'll respond there and keep
    things orderly.
    
    				-David

    	Well, Lechmere's is having a sale on the Revere 12 piece set for
    $79.99 and I want to buy a set but I am confused on which set to buy:
    the copper bottom ones, or the ones with the aluminum disks attached to
    the bottoms.  Both sets look pretty good, and both sets are fairly
    heavy, even though the aluminum bottom ones are heavier, but which set
    should I pick up?  Most people are saying that the copper pans have to
    be cleaned so that they are nice and shiny and back when I was married
    we had those so we would clean them, but other people are saying that
    the aluminum disk bottom pans are nicer because the disk allows you to
    cook at a lower temperature.  Someone out there in Revere-ware land let
    me know so I can make a final decision about which set to buy.

    The aluminum ones still have a copper core, I believe, so you still get
    the benefits of the copper.  The aluminum is much easier to keep
    looking clean.  The copper looks prettier when it is clean, but it's
    much harder to keep that way.
    
    Go with the ones you want based on looks and maintenance.  They both
    cook the same.

be forewarned:

my roommate allowed my aluminum bottomed double boiler run out of water
(revere brand), and the aluminum disk melted all over the stove burner...and
it wasn't really a heat issue, as the burner was fine once we flaked off the
melted aluminum.  I now have replaced it with a copper bottomed double-boiler.

    I personally prefer the copper.  They are very easy to keep clean and 
    looking good.  I use a copper cleaner called Cameo.  It's in a sprinkle
    top container like cleanser. You wet the bottom of the pan, sprinkle
    some cleaner on and wipe with a sponge.  A few rubs and it is like new.
    
    Perhaps dating myself, but I have copper bottom pots for 30 years that
    still look good and shine like new.  My aluminum ones - not quite.
    
    Flo

    I would definatley go for the aluminum ones.  Good copper ones are fine
    but if you are getting 12 for 80 bucks all you are getting is a thin
    and useless coating of copper so that they can say "copper clad."  You
    need a relatively thick copper coating for it to do any good.
    
    Cleaning the copper can be an issue.  If you clean regularly and are
    conscientiuous, it's no big deal.  If you tend to be the type to put
    off cleaning I would steer clear of exposed copper.  As for aluminum
    melting - it does.  So don't try to flamb� your pans.
    
    I have the aluminum bottom ones, and the old style copper (where they
    sandwich it between stainless steel both on the bottom and on the sides
    - a practice no longer done.)  I am happy with both.
    
    As I said, I would stay away from the copper ones, not because they are
    copper, but because they are thin copper.
    
    				-David

    I have both types by Revere Ware and I prefer the auminm disk bottom.
    
    - Vikas

I thought people might be interested in this.  This is a pan comparison that's
listed in A Cook's Wares Catalog.  I would be interested in any feedback.  I
currently have the Caphalon starter set. (FYI - Feen's in Fitchburg always sells
these at 10% off retail).

The comparison below will explain why we carry Cuisinart and All-Clad pans 
instead of Calphalon and Mag-Pro.

Calphalon & Magpro:

  Anodized Aluminum Exterior		
    Can Stain				  
    Can Scratch Through			  
      Anodization				    

  Anodized Aluminum Cooking Surface
    Can Pit and Corrode

  Cast Iron Handle
    Gets Hot Fast
  
  Aluminum Lid

  Aluminum Rivets

  Not Dishwasher Safe


Cuinart Commercial:			All-Clad Master Chef:

  Stainless Steel Exterior		Aluminum Alloy Exterior
    Cannot Stain			    Cannot Stain
    No Anodization to        		    No Anodization to
      Scratch Through			      Scratch Through 			

  Stainless Steel Cooking Surface	Stainless Steel Cooking Surface
    Cannot Pit or Corrode		  Cannot PIt or Corrode

  Stainless Steel Handle		Stainless Steel Handle
    Stays Cool				  Stays Cool

  No Rivets				Stainless Steel Rivets

  Dishwasher Safe			Dishwasher Safe

  Rated #1, price not considered,	Rated #1, price considered, by 
  by THE COOK'S MAGAZINE		THE COOK'S MAGAZINE
  March/April & Nov/Dec 1984		Nov/Dec 1984
			 				   			    

    Ah yes, those All-Clad Master Chef pans from Cannonsburg, PA.  They
    multiply quite easily in the kitchen when you aren't looking.  Watch
    out though - they make a considerable dent to a checkbook!  
    
    A few weeks back, the Tj Maxx in Manchester, NH had a few of these in
    their kitchen gadget aisle.  I became weak at the knees.  :^)  Prices
    were very low, probably because they were irregulars, however, a tiny
    little spot at the top of the pan was not something you'd notice after
    the second use. (ok people - don't go rushing to Tj's.  I cleaned them
    out :^)  Restaurant suppliers have the best price on these, better than
    The Kitchen or Kitchens Etc.  A few years back, Lechmere and Jordan
    Marsh stopped carrying the line, so they are not the easiest things in
    the world to find.  I've actually shipped MC pans to Seattle because a
    friend couldn't get them there.
    
    If you can afford them, they are great pans.  For some reason though,
    they don't appear to be very popular.  Except of course, at Mr. Hall's
    house, where they can be found near the cluster of Cuisinarts.  :^)

    Debbi,
    
    There's a supplier in Bow, NH (just south of Concord) on Route 3A that
    carries anything you would ever want in Henkels and they will sell to
    the general public if you ask them nicely.  :^)  It isn't convenient
    to where you live or work, however, if you are buying expensive stuff
    you may want to consider the fact that you won't pay sales tax.  Also,
    they may ship directly to your home, so it could be worth a try.
    Northeast Food Service Equipment.  800.852.3477
    
    --Cheryl
    (ps - The company that makes Calphalon (Commercial Aluminum?) does both
    retail and commercial grade pans.  I think Northeast can only get the
    commercial stuff and just a few of the retail items.  A few suggestions
    would be the Chef's Catalog or one of the Kitchen's Etc stores if you
    strike out with the suppliers.

    re: last couple on Calphalon in the dishwasher
    
    My roomate washed his 7" omelet pan in the dishwasher (a few times), a
    the pan looks terrible and hasn't cooked right since.
    
    One question on seasoning anodized aluminum cookware: what is the best
    oil to use, and should you follow the same procedures for cast iron? 
    I'm replacing the omelet pan (for myself :) and like others, have had
    problems with eggs in my other Calphalon pans.
    
    I'm thinking of using a peanut or other high-temp oil, and placing it
    in the oven for 15-20 minutes @ 325 degrees.  Any advice would be
    appreciated...
    
    --- Gavin

    I just received the calphalon stir-fry pan for christmas and my
    directions says not to season the pan.   I have used it several 
    times and have had a problem with food sticking only one time. 
    If seasoning is better for the pan, how do I season it.  I like it
    so much, I plan on replacing all my pots and pans over time with. 
    Unfortunately I can't just go out and buy them all.
    

    I was somewhat astonished not to find in this note (nor anywhere
    else I could locate in the conference) a reference to Circulon.
    I just bought a Circulon 12" covered saute pan to replace an old
    WearEver Silverstone Ultra pan that just wore out.  It's my hope
    that the Circulon will maintain its non-stick capability for
    a long time; they guarantee ten years.  (I've seen 10-year
    guarantees on other pans, but they just guarantee that the non-stick
    coating won't lift.)
    
    Circulon is hard-anodized aluminum with a circular "high-low" pattern
    inside.  There's some sort of non-stick coating also applied.  The
    idea is that the high ridges protect the low parts from being
    scraped.  It's sort of similar to Calphalon (and similarly priced;
    the list price for this pan is $135; most stores sell it for
    $102-$109.  I paid $84.99 (plus 6% tax); I later found it for
    $89.99 (no tax), which would have been 8 cents cheaper. :-)  Unlike
    Calphalon, the handles are phenolic covered.  There are two cover
    styles; a high-domed stainless steel and a low glass.
    
    I've only used it once so far; it seems to cook and clean well.
    The circular pattern makes a dreadful noise when you scrape a spoon
    across it, though!
    
    I'm interested in reading others experiences with Circulon.
    
    					Steve

    Hello,
    I don't know if you in the states can find them but I've got a Le Creuset
    frying pan that I can thoroughly recommend.The only drawback is its
    weight (and its price,about 70 pounds sterling!)but if you can get by that
    its smashing and will last a lifetime.I've also got a Fronsenec oven
    pot thats giving good service.Both are cast iron enameled.
    Treat yourselves once,dont buy cheap and they'll last forever.
    Geoff

Le Creuset is easy to find in the US.  I don't care for either the cast iron
(cooks well and is near indestructible, but is heavy and can rust) nor the
enamelled exterior (difficult to clean if food burns on; the thing I loved
about my WearEver pan was that it had Silverstone on the exterior as well
which made cleanup a snap.)

				Steve

    My mother has been slowly buying me a full circulon set over the past
    few Christmasses.
    
    I'm not all that impressed.  It does seems to be very durable, heat
    evenly and of quality construction.  But I hate the way food catches in
    the grooves.  I mean, forget scrambled eggs!  (And similarly pad thai,
    fried rice, etc.)  Also other mushy things like refried beans or
    anything with a thick sauce, or melted cheese in it.  
    
    It works well for dry-frying (such as stir fry), but if you do use oil,
    you seem to need more because some goes in to the grooves.  (I usually
    use *very* little oil like a tsp or two for frying.)  It doesn't work
    well with sauted onions, f'rinstance.
    
    I'm afraid my beautiful, expensive Circulon pans spend most of their
    time sitting on the shelf, while I end up using my Revereware teflon
    much more.  My mother would be horrified.  (She swears by Circulon.)
    
    D!

    Farberware (good old standby) has a new line out (at least to me)  -- with 
    ClasiCote. This non-stick surface can be used with metal utensils over high 
    heat, which most non-sticks do not allow.  I'd like to try one open stock 
    item to test -- especially as Farberware is relatively inexpensive and 
    readily available.  The non-stick guarantee is for 10 years I believe.
    
    When my daughter moved to her own place I bought her a set of        
    Farberware -- 'cause with new cooks it takes a lot of burning abuse.

    re:.93  Steve,
    	Look for the Le Creuset with the Silverstone interior. I have a
    couple and theyare great!
    
    Debbie
    

    I agree with D!  I got a piece of Circulon during a "try me!" special,
    and I hate it!  D!'s scrambled egg comment is right on the mark. 
    Almost impossible to clean out of those stupid little grooves.
    
    I have one piece of Calphalon (all I can afford!) and one piece of Master
    Chef (again, all I can afford), and I love both of them.  Neither has a
    non-stick interior, but neither is the slightest problem to clean.
    
    My pots and pans were hand-me-downs from my uncle's first marriage,
    some 30 years ago, so I finally got rid of them last year.  I bought
    T-Fal, which is a serviceable light-weight set.  I was surprised that I
    like it!  And I bought a set of Duralon, which is a Calphalon
    knock-off.  I love it!  It's not quite as heavy as Calphalon, so it's
    easier for me to handle.  And it has a non-stick interior.  And it came
    with a Martin Yan cookbook!
    
    Susan

    I was pretty disappointed with Calphalon.  I bought a couple of
    "try_me"s and was disappointed to see how much the food sticks to them.
    
    My friend (who likes Calphalon) just keeps his seasoned as if they were
    cast iron and they seem to work fine.  After cooking food in them he
    basically just wipes them out with a paper towel.  Occasionally he
    rubs some olive oil into them.
    
    If I was going to season my pans, I'd just buy cast iron.  
    
    
    				-David

I agree with .98:
>    If I was going to season my pans, I'd just buy cast iron.

That's exactly what I did--went for the heavy stuff.

Calphalon is aluminum inside, so has better heat conduction properties than
cast iron, and is also lighter.  It can also be thrown in the dishwasher in
a pinch.  

When well seasoned, its surface is almost as non-stick as cast iron. But 
once you scratch your way through the surface (or have it eaten away
by acidic foods), it will not "heal" like cast iron will.

For me, Calphalon might be worth 2x the price of cast iron.  But not the 10x
they get for it.

-Doug

re: .98

>    My friend (who likes Calphalon) just keeps his seasoned as if they were
>    cast iron and they seem to work fine.  After cooking food in them he
>    basically just wipes them out with a paper towel.  Occasionally he
>    rubs some olive oil into them.
>    
>    If I was going to season my pans, I'd just buy cast iron.  
    
I also treat my (one) Calphalon like cast iron (except that I can soak
it without worrying about rust).  I also have several pieces of cast
iron.  They each have their strengths and weaknesses.  There's nothing
like well-preheated cast iron for cooking a steak.  But hey, you certainly
couldn't toss things in it without breaking your wrist.

My personal advice is not to get all of one kind of pan.  Different types
of pans are better for different things.  Mix and match.

-Hal

Any problems  using  metal  utensils  on  a Calphalon wok?  Not sure if I'll
scratch or scrape anything.

Albert

    I was give a set of Calphlon cookwear for Christmas.   I think its
    great, except for a couple of things.    I find that the only time I
    get a successful fried egg out of the pan is if the temperature is very
    very low, then the egg doesn't stick.   The only thing that I was
    unsuccessful with is stir frying marinated meat.   It always sticks. 
    Stir frying the veggies is fine, but not the meat.   So, what I do
    instead, is used a non-stick pan on high heat to stir fry the meat.
    I will set that aside and then stir fry the veggies in the calphalon
    stir fry pan and add the meat later.    Its a little bit of a pain, but
    it works OK.    I use metal utensils with my cook wear and have had no
    problems.

    I'm about to move into a new house and think new cookware would be a
    good idea.   On my wishlist for the new house was a Gas kitchen, and
    I'm going to get my wish.   Of the several types of cookware listed in
    this note, are there any which work better on gas, or do they behave
    the same regardless of heat source?   
    
    Thanks for any help.
    
    Joan
    

    ATTENTION MODERATORS: would it be possible to change the spelling of
    the basenote, maybe mentioning various brand names, so that people who
    try to hunt things down will succeed more often? Meanwhile:
    
    I use Farberware Millenium on my gas stove. It is great, outstanding,
    terrific, superb. Comes with a 20-year guarantee. I haven't tried any 
    of the competing brands but then I don't see any reason to.
    
      John

    Gas cooktops are much less fussy about pan type than are electric
    elements.  As with any sort of cookware, you want something that will
    rapidly distribute the heat.
    
    I've now used the Circulon saute pan a number of times.  Works very
    well, nothing sticks to it.  I also find I don't need much oil.
    For the types of foods I cook in it, I think it's excellent.  I
    might not choose to equip my entire kitchen with it, though.
    
    The saute pan gets the most (ab)use in our home, so the rugged
    surface of the Circulon pan is just the ticket.
    
    					Steve

    re .104 -- John,
    
    I was at Kitchen, Etc (Nashua) last week and saw, for the first time,
    the Farberware Millenium -- it looks like an exceptional set.  After
    reading the box, I still can't tell if you can use your Millenium over
    high heat without damage.  After comparison shopping I'd certainly give
    the Millenium a serious look -- even over the Farberware ClasiCote --
    the new line.
    
    C.

    
    
    Rep .106  C
    
    
    >>>After reading the box, I still can't tell if you can use your
     Millenium over high heat without damage.  After comparison shopping
     I'd certainly give the Millenium a serious look.
    
    
    I have a couple of Millenium pans and love them. I just made pan fried
    scallops over the weekend and I have a high <17k btu> output gas burner
    on my stove and the Millenium handled the high setting without a
    problem. I plan on expanding my collection of these pans soon. I think
    the only way you'll into trouble as far as high heat is to leave the
    pan on high heat completely empty and just burn it up.
    
    
    -mike
     

re:                     <<< Note 416.106 by TANRU::CHAPMAN >>>
>    reading the box, I still can't tell if you can use your Millenium over
>    high heat without damage.
    
    Carel,
    
    The directions say medium heat is recommended for all cooking purposes
    (except simmer). But the safety tips only warn: "Discoloration of the
    stainless steel will result and if the cookware is allowed to overheat
    excessively, the aluminum bottom will melt." This warning is in
    conjunction with a warning not to let the pan boil dry.
    
    The guarantee says "Our cooking surface is so superior we guarantee you
    can't cook it off, burn it off or scrape it off for at least 20 years".
    So it would seem the only problem with high heat is the bottom melting,
    and that should only be when you let the pan boil dry over high heat.
    Got any recipes that call for that? :-)
    
    We only have the frypan (right now) and we use it extensively. I make
    hash browns without any oil and they come out fine, never sticking.
    
      John

    Thanks for the info.  The reason I'm so cautious about the high heat is 
    because of previous experience ... I had a T-Fal stock pot that I used
    to cook pasta -- I'd use high heat to boil the water.  Within 20 uses
    the T-Fal lining peeled away from the pan.  When I called to ask how to
    get my money back they told me that the high heat was my problem. 
    
    Carel

    
    My sister bought a Farberware Millenium fry pan, cooked bacon
    on it, and melted the pan.... it totally warped.
    She returned it and got her money back.

Interesting. I never had the opportunity to even see the Farberware
Millenium pans. We had bought a set of Farberware "Advantage" when they
were marketed around 15 years ago. These have a layer of aluminum
sandwiched between two layers of stainless. The aluminum goes all the
way up the side. They're extremely good pots, nicely balanced,
conveniently shaped, and comfortable to use. But their rosewood handles
preclude washing in the dishwasher.

Eventually, we bought some All-Clad pots which have very thick aluminum
on the outside and a thin layer of stainless inside. These are
outstanding. Nothing has ever burned in them. The long metal handles
are dishwasher safe, but stay cool.

Then, as a Xmas present to ourselves two years ago, I bought a solid
copper saucepan with a thin stainless lining. This is unbelievable. Not
only do things refuse to burn, but they just come out perfect no matter
what you do! I mean, it really is surprising the sorts of stuff that
works which your experience tells you should've been a smoking
disaster. And it's very thick copper, not a skimpy copper plating.

The most amazing part is it cost less than pots from either the
All-Clad or Farberware lines. But here's the catch: you have to buy it
at MORA on Rue Montmartre in the 1st arrondissement in Paris. Figuring
the cost of a plane ticket into the price, it's not that good a deal.

I would like to know what is the best brand of cookware that I should be
"investing" my money on. I would like something that would last sort of a
"lifetime".

I've read some articles on cast iron, teflon (dupont coated), stainless steel
with thick "copper/etc" base, ceramic, what have you. 

I do a lot of sauteing, stir fry, saucy meats, deep frying, etc. I appreciate
any suggestions on brand names. And further information on "price/performance".

I've had unknown teflon brands that have been used for several years and are now
getting peeled off. Do top brands like T-fal peel off, too ? 

Thinking of cast iron... Or stainless steel with thick base ?

Advises from the experienced cooks ?


Thanks,
Arlene

re: .112

>I would like to know what is the best brand of cookware that I should be
>"investing" my money on. I would like something that would last sort of a
>"lifetime".
>
>I've read some articles on cast iron, teflon (dupont coated), stainless steel
>with thick "copper/etc" base, ceramic, what have you. 
>
>I do a lot of sauteing, stir fry, saucy meats, deep frying, etc. I appreciate
>any suggestions on brand names. And further information on "price/performance".

My advice is: get some of everything.  Well maybe not everything, but forget
the idea of buying a whole set of any one thing.

Different kinds of cookware work better for different types of cooking.
A cast iron skillet is a wonderful thing for frying, but a cast iron saucepan
or stockpot would leave something to be desired.

I personally have cast iron (several sizes of skillets, a dutch oven, and
a chicken fryer), Le Creuset (dutch oven), heavy aluminum (several skillets,
a few saucepans), Calphalon (one skillet), aluminum-clad stainless (saucepans),
and probably some more stuff that I can't think of right now.

-Hal

    
    The previous reply describes my feelings on this too. I have a little of
    everything similar to -1. The things I use most are the Le Creuset
    pots, several brands of heavy aluminium saucepans and pots, several
    teflon-genre products, and a Calphalon skillet. Each has its own unique
    characteristics, and I find myself grabbing for different items and
    brands every time I cook. I think that allowing yourself to have a range
    to pick from is a real advantage. 

    The closet thing I have to a set is a collection of pieces from
    Belgique. The cosmos came together for me when I had a store discount,
    a store coupon, a new card discount and the best sale on Belgique that 
    they've had in a year all happen on the same day. I like the Belgique
    pieces quite a bit (both in their performance and in that they are
    very attractive looking as well).  They are a favourite, but I would
    definitely be limited if I had bought an entire set and could only pick
    from that. In a sense I have many favourites, nothing is _the_ favourite,
    the most liked pieces are _a_ favourite.  Also, there is something else.
    I'm not sure this is a something a 'real' chef would feel, but what
    pan I pick each time depends not only on a hard-coded "caramelizing
    onions works best in this skillet" assessment, but also can change
    depending upon what mood I'm in that day. What I grab for when cooking
    the same item changes, depending on my affinity for using a certain
    item that day. 

    What I'm trying to say is that it is real nice to have a choice, which
    only exists by having a range of different characteristics to pick from.

    -Erik

    PS- the only thing I've stopped using are the old-fashioned cast iron
    pans I picked up somewhere. I personally don't like using them, and
    permanently find myself reaching for the Le Creuset items instead.

If arthritis runs in your family, you might want to stay away from the heavier,
cast iron pans like Le Creuset.  Cast aluminum is lighter, and if
anodized/coated, is safe and effective.

Anybody heard of Regal Ware's Cordon Bleu line of products that are sold through
house to house demonstration ? They have sandwich based and even the sides are
lined.

How would you compare the following brands : Salad Master, Regal's Cordon Bleu
and Revere.

Regal's products have "lifetime guarantee" so they must be good, I thought.
So far, I've gotton this impression as to what to buy for what type of cookware.

	Cast iron - Le Crueset
	Stainless steel - Revere
	Teflon coated - T-fal 

Right or wrong ?

I'm so brand consciuos, I hate to say.

By the way, thanks for the replies on note 112.

Arlene

    A year or so ago I went through the "what do I purchase" investigations
    too.  I have a few odd pieces for specific purposes ... iron, teflon
    omlette pan, etc. -- but for my set I went with LeDome -- they are
    relatively new, from France.  The pans are chef pans, stainless steel
    over an aluminum base.  The sides are deep and sloped so you can swish
    the food around ... with the famous chef arm action.  You can cook at
    extremely high temperatures. They are beautiful to look at and can be put 
    in the dishwasher. 
    
    One of the best features, for me, are the tempered glass lids.  I can
    see what's cooking/steaming.  This was great when I  made chicken and 
    dumplings last week and could see the dumplings rise.  
                

RE: .117

	Glass tempered cover is very appealing to me but does it retain the food
moisture and covers the food well as in the moisture doesn't escape from the
hair tin space between the pan itself and the cover ? Does the cover have a hole
or some sort of gadget that releases the steam or some hole you can close. 
	Where did you get them ? From a cookware store in NH or from France ?
	I'd be interested to see some brochures/pictures...

Thanks,
Arlene

I also like the Le Creseut for soups and stews.  It seems to
cook well and is easy to clean.  BUT I have never used their
frying pans both teflon coated and enameled.  They are just
to hard to clean.   We got a full set as a wedding present and
they still look fine - 16 years later.

For frying, sauteing, "woking", I really like T-fal.  We bought
a pan last year and used it almost daily.  It is easy to clean,
eliminates using lots of oil, and above all cooks well.

    Le Creuset is great for casseroles and slow cooking on hob or oven. And
    they always clean really easily even after a real cremation!
    The pans weigh a ton so I avoid them.
    
    The pan I use most is a biggish Teflon wok - I use it for everything!
    Second favourite is a 10L stainless steel stock pot (with heavy bottom)
    (no comments please!) - great for stock, jams, soup and big piles of
    veg.
    
    Caroline 

I have a 12-piece set of T-fal which I really love.  As .119 said, it's easy
to clean, cooks really well, and is very dependable.  I also have picked up
a Calphalon saute pan and pizza pan, a cast iron frying pan, and a pan from
Wear-Ever's Healthy Cooking collection.  So my recommendation would be to get
a good, basic, moderately-priced set of cookware for everyday use, then as 
others have recommended, pick up a piece here and there of some of the more 
expensive brands and evaluate them as you go along.  

    I've recently (3 months ago) bought the Le Creuset castuflon frying
    pan, and I think its great. Its a cast-iron frying pan with several
    layers of silverstone enamel, and since I have a sealed-hob radiant
    ring cooker, I got the vitrobase version. It has fantastic heat
    distribution, and is extremely easy to clean. The only caution is that it
    requires lower cooking temperatures than stainless steel or cast
    aluminium. I also have the Le Creuset marmitout (ordinary enamel
    finish) and the castuflon-finish milk-pan. However, I really don't
    recommend their ordinary enamel-finish saucepans  - too hard to clean,
    too expensive. My regular saucepans are Stellar stainless steel with
    aluminium or copper capsule base. 
    
    Grainne Ni Choiligh.
     

    
    	I've read several replies here from people saying they had problems
    	with their Calphalon pans staining. I'm having problems too.

    	For Thanksgiving I bought a deep-sided roasting pan from Calphalon.
    	I made duck using Julia Child's directions where you put a rack in
    	the roasting pan, and put the duck and it's juices in an Al-foil
    	boat on top of the rack. It all worked fine until at the very end
    	when I tried to turn the duck over - I pierced the foil with a
    	meat fork and the red wine gravy spilled out into the Calphalon
    	pan. I was surprised to discover that the spill left a stain I could
    	not clean out. How do you clean and remove stains from your
    	Calphalon pans? Any tips? 

    	-Erik

    	PS- Why doesn't Julia just put the duck directly into the roasting
    	pan instead of trying to contain the duck and juices inside foil 
    	on top of a rack? What would be the difference?

>>    	PS- Why doesn't Julia just put the duck directly into the roasting
>>    	pan instead of trying to contain the duck and juices inside foil 
>>   	on top of a rack? What would be the difference?

	maybe the red wine gravy suffers from direct contact with 
	the very hot roasting pan?

    
    >	maybe the red wine gravy suffers from direct contact with 
    >	the very hot roasting pan?

    	But wouldn't the aluminum foil over the rack in a 325 degree oven
    	be the same temperature as the pan in the oven?

    	I was just curious if there was a standard for doing it this way.
    	Next time I'll try just putting the duck in the rack and see if
    	there's a difference. It was difficult trying to keep all the
    	roasting vegetables, duck and liquids captured atop a foil sheet
    	resting upon a rack (with foil hanging down between the rungs).
    	Or perhaps I can be more careful with the meat fork next time. :-)

    	RE: cleaning Calphalon

    	Can you use Comet and steel wool on the anodized aluminum Calphalon
    	uses?

    	-Erik

    	>>But wouldn't the aluminum foil over the rack in a 325 degree oven
    	>>be the same temperature as the pan in the oven?

	methinks not, but i could be wrong.  it happens.  ;>

    I bought a Faberware Millenium saute pan about a year ago. I remember I
    could do scramble egg or stir fry in it with a very small amount of oil
    and it won't stick. Lately, it is not working as well as it used to be.
    Unless I use more oil, things don't "slide" off the pan anymore.
    Actually, they stick to the pan most of the time and need to be scraped
    off. It is still a bit better than a regular pan, it is easier to
    scrape stuff off this pan than a regular one. However, I thought
    non-stick means nothing sticks, food can slide around easily without
    sticking. I should mention that I do use wooden utensils most of the
    time and I use the pan almost daily for the last year. Does anyone else
    have the same experience? Or did I get a defective pan and should call
    Faberware?
    
    -Alice