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Conference turris::cooks

Title:How to Make them Goodies
Notice:Please Don't Start New Notes for Old Topics! Check 5.*
Moderator:FUTURE::DDESMAISONSec.com::winalski
Created:Tue Feb 18 1986
Last Modified:Thu Jun 05 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:4127
Total number of notes:31160

227.0. "BAGELS: How to Make 'em" by FURILO::BLESSLEY () Fri Feb 28 1986 16:19

    This is an adaptation of a cookbook recipe. I'd give credit, but
    dunno where it came from...



                                Bagels

          1 1/4 cups warm water                1/2 teaspoon salt
          1 cake yeast                         4 1/4 cups flour
          3 tablespoons sugar                  1 gallon water


      Pour warm water into a large bowl.  Sprinkle and stir yeast
      until  dissolved.   Add sugar, salt, and flour to produce a
      soft dough.  Turn onto floured surface, knead until smooth,
      elastic, 10 minutes.

      Cover, let rise 15 minutes.  Flatten on a floured  surface,
      roll dough 1 inch thick.  Cut into strips a foot long and 1
      inch wide.  Roll each strip 1/2 inch thick,  cut  in  half.
      Pinch   together   ends   of  strips  to  form  the  bagel.
      (Alternately, divide dough into 12 equal pieces.  Roll each
      into  a ball.  Poke thumb through the center, and form into
      the traditional shape)

      Cover, let rise 20 minutes.  Bring  1  gallon  water  to  a
      boil.   Lower  heat,  add  4  bagels  (at a time), simmer 7
      minutes.  Remove with spoon and  cool.   Repeat  until  all
      bagels  are  cooked.   Place  bagels on an ungreased baking
      sheet, bake in preheated oven at 375F for 25-30  minutes  (
      until golden brown)

      Makes 12 bagels.
    
      Some interesting variations:
    
    	- Mix half white and half rye or wheat flour (do not use all wheat
    	or rye unless you add gluten flour, or you won't have bagels,
    	you'll have thick matzo.). Oat flour makes interesting, but
    	not very traditional bagels.
    
    	- Add various seeds onto the boiled/partially cooled bagels,
    	or add them to the dough as you're making it.
    
    	- Throw in an egg yolk or two. Adds some color, changes the
    	texture some. Not so good for your cholesterol.
    
    -Scott
    
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
227.1Seedy proposition in 227.0FURILO::BLESSLEYFri Feb 28 1986 16:213
    BTW, by "various seeds", I was thinking caraway, poppy, and toasted
    sesame seeds. Anything else is at your own risk.
    
227.4Where?CSG::SCHOFIELDMon Feb 06 1989 16:5611
    I used the yeast.  I did everything it called for.  I was going
    to  use 1/2 wheat flour, but figured I'd better do it right the
    first time, and then experiment.  
    
    Where would I get gluten?  Maybe I should add that next time.  Would
    I have to alter this recipe in any way to add that?  What about
    if I used 1/2 wheat flour, 1/2 regular flour and gluten, would that
    work?  What is gluten anyway?  I know it makes the stuff rise. 
    Where to get it is the question.....
    Thanks,
    Beth
227.5GlutenBOOKIE::AITELEveryone's entitled to my opinion.Mon Feb 06 1989 17:329
    see note 1462 for sources of gluten.
    
    I'll see if I can find my bagel recipe - someone in FLEX wants
    one too.  Maybe there's a difference in the dough or preparation.
    I know I had to try a few times to get something that was reasonably
    soft - otherwise they were like TEETHING RINGS!  They never DID
    get to the deli-bagel stage, but they were delicious anyhow.
    
    --Louise
227.6Was your yeast ok?HPSRAD::LEWISTue Feb 07 1989 12:217
    If you really do add all the stuff at once, then maybe your yeast
    was dead. And I think that you're supposed to use warmer water when
    everything is added together. I'd be inclined (when I try this recipe
    this weekend) to add some of the sugar to the yeast and water first,
    to be sure the yeast is viable.
    
    
227.7Water too hot for yeast?CADSYS::RICHARDSONTue Feb 07 1989 12:4317
    Maybe the water was too hot and killed off the yeast?  I use King
    Arthur flour all the time (I like unbleached flour; I don't know if
    they make a "self-rising" flour since I have never bought that sort of
    flour - I think it just has salt added or something).  I never have
    yeast doughs fail to rise anymore since I got a yeast thermometer; my
    tap water is too hot for yeast (it's set to be correct for the
    dishwasher) if I let it run for a while, so I use the thermometer to
    make sure.  Cake yeast, if you use that kind, has a limited shelf life,
    but I have never had a problem with dry yeast.  If you are going to add
    the flour and other dry stuff to the yeast after it is already
    dissolved in water, the water needs to be between 105 and 115 oF.  If
    you mix the (dry) yeast in with the flour and then add the water to
    that, it needs to be hotter, maybe 130 oF or so (I almost never do it
    that way even if the recipe says to since the other method is easier).
    If you are susupicious about your yeast, dissolve it in the water and
    add some of the sugar.  The combination ought to be quite foamy within
    ten minutes or so; if it isn't, the yeast is dead.
227.8Another bagel recipe.BOOKIE::AITELEveryone's entitled to my opinion.Tue Feb 07 1989 15:2466
    My recipe is slightly different.  I use a little egg (or Eggbeater
    egg substitute), and less yeast, and I make a sponge with the yeast
    first.  Basically, when you make a sponge with yeast, a little
    flour, sugar, and water, you are letting the yeast multiply and
    so you can get away with using less yeast.  It used to be a frugality
    measure, before yeast was as cheap as it is today.  I use it as
    a REAL indication of whether or not the yeast is alive.  Since I
    have not used much flour, I'm not throwing away much if the yeast
    fails to form a sponge.

    These directions are very thorough, but they should be as easy as
    the ones in .0.  
    Wheat and white bagels   makes 12 - 120 calories each
    
    4 1/4 to 4 1/2 cups flour, half whole wheat and half unbleached white.
    1 teaspoon yeast (NOT a typo!)
    1 1/2 cups hot tap water - as per prior comments, about 110 deg F
    2-3 Tablespoons sugar, brown or white
    1 Tablespoon salt
    1/4 cup Eggbeater, or one egg
    [optional - a few tablespoons of gluten flour, if you have it]
        
    1)  Put hot water in mixer bowl.  Stir in yeast, sugar, and 2 Cups
    white flour.  Mix well.  Set bowl in a warm place to rise for
    1 to 1 1/2 hours, until spongy.
    
    2)  With a strong mixer (not hand held!), blend in egg, salt and
    as much wheat flour as it'll take. 
    
    3) Knead on a floured wooden board about 10 minutes, adding flour
    as needed up to 5 cups maximum total.  Really work the dough - get
    out your frustrations!  It should end up smooth and springy.
    
    4) Shape dough into 12 bagels.  Divide dough into 12 pieces and
    roll each piece out.  Pinch ends together to form a ring.  Pinch
    firmly, or the ring will fall apart when you boil the bagels.
    
    5) Place bagels on a greased cookie sheet.  Cover with a kitchen
    towel.  Place in a warm place and let rise 1/2 to 1 hour.
    
    6) Heat water with 1 Tablespoon sugar stirred into it.  I use 
    my huge cast iron skillet for this - you're looking for a pot or
    pan that's at least 12 inches in diameter and 3 inches deep.
    The skillet is easier than a deep pot, since you don't have
    to boil as much water, so it doesn't take as long.  Cover the water
    until it boils, so it's faster.  
    
    7) Preheat oven to 375.
    
    8)Cook bagels in water, uncovered, about 6 minutes, turning once.
    Drain on rack.  I cook 4 at a time in my skillet, and I put the
    rack over 1/2 of the double sink.  Don't let them cook longer
    than 7 min max in the water, or they won't turn out right.
    
    9) Put bagels back on that cookie sheet.  Bake at 375 deg F for
    30 minutes.  Spray  or brush with water twice during the last 10
    minutes for crustier bagels.

    ADDITIONS:  My favorite - stir in poppy or sesame seeds when you're
    		   adding the whole wheat flour.  Since the seeds are
    		   inside, they don't fall off.   MMMMMM.
    
    		Onion - fry a chopped up onion or two in a few tablespoons
    		    of butter.  Stir in when you add the whole wheat flour.


227.10PSTJTT::TABER�Quidado -- es Llamas!Wed Feb 08 1989 15:2313
>    4) Shape dough into 12 bagels.  Divide dough into 12 pieces and
>    roll each piece out.  Pinch ends together to form a ring.  Pinch
>    firmly, or the ring will fall apart when you boil the bagels.

A tip I picked up from somewhere... divide the dough into 12 pieces and form 
them into little balls.  Then while holding one in your hand, pinch
lightly with your thumb and finger on opposite sides, and start turning the 
doughball with your other hand.  As you turn it, the tumb and finger will
make a hole in the center, and the space between your thumb and hand will 
form the bagle into a nice bagle-shape.  This way there is no seam to part
when you're biling the dough, and you have a better chance for good-looking
results.
					>>>==>PStJTT
227.11Blueberry bagelsCOMET::DAVIDSONLTue May 17 1994 01:447
    I have been looking for a recipe for blueberry bagels but can't find
    one. Do any of you have one? Also, I live at 9,500 ft. and wonder what if
    any problems I will have.
    
                     Thanks 
                     Lynda
    
227.12Bagel recipe from rec.food.recipesSTAR::DIPIRROTue Mar 12 1996 15:12190
Article: 12164
From: Bewildered <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: rec.food.recipes
Subject: Authentic Jewish Bgels
Date: 23 Apr 1995 06:42:31 -0600
Organization: ucs.indiana.edu
Sender: [email protected]
 
This is a recipe by my friend Johanne Blank.  She has a wonderful array of 
foolproof recipes, of which this is one of the greatest ever.
 
                    Johanne's Foolproof Recipes presents
 
                   Real, honest, Jewish (Lower East Side)
                       P U R I S T ' S   B A G E L S
 
 
        Gentle reader, it is assumed that you know from bagels.  The bagel, in 
its peripateic history, has moved from the shtetls of Eastern Europe to the 
delis of the United States, survived the onslaught of many a foreign 
formulation and flavoring, and also has managed to remain relatively dignified 
in the face of mass-production, freezing and other procedural adulterations and 
bastardizations.  In the United States, however, most people's idea of a bagel 
seems to be of a vaguely squishy unsweetened doughnut, possibly with some sort 
of godawful flavoring mixed into it (with the "blueberry bagel" being perhaps 
the most offensive), generally purchased in lots of six in some supermarket... 
possibly even frozen.  These are not those bagels.
        These bagels are the genuine article.  These are the bagels that have 
sustained generations of Eastern European Jewish peasants, the bagels that 
babies can teethe upon (folk wisdom has it that the hard, chewy crust 
encourages strong teeth), the bagels about which writer and humorist Alice Kahn 
has so aptly written that bagels are "Jewish courage."
        This recipe makes approximately fifteen large bagels,  The bagels are 
made without eggs, milk or any type of shortening or oil, which makes them 
pareve according to Kosher law.  These bagels are plain, but I will provide 
suggestions as to how you may customize them to your tastes while retaining 
their Pristine and Ineffable Nature.  May you bake them and eat them in good 
health.
 
                                INGREDIENTS:
 
6-8 cups bread (high-gluten) flour
4 tablespoons dry baking yeast
6 tablespoons granulated white sugar or light honey (clover honey is good)
2 teaspoons salt
3 cups hot water
a bit of vegetable oil
1 gallon water
3-5 tablespoons malt syrup or sugar
a few handfuls of cornmeal
 
                                EQUIPMENT:
 
large mixing bowl
wire whisk
measuring cups and spoons
wooden mixing spoon
butter knife or baker's dough blade
clean, dry surface for kneading
3 clean, dry kitchen towels
warm, but not hot, place to set dough to rise
large stockpot
slotted spoon
2 baking sheets
 
HOW YOU DO IT:
 
        First, pour three cups of hot water into the mixing bowl.  The water 
should be hot, but not so hot that you can't bear to put your fingers in it for 
several seconds at a time.  Add the sugar or honey and stir it with your fingers
(a good way to make sure the water is not too hot) or with a wire whisk to 
dissolve.  Sprinkle the yeast over the surface of the water, and stir to 
dissolve.
        Wait about ten minutes for the yeast to begin to revive and grow.  This 
is known as "proofing" the yeast, which simply means that you're checking to 
make sure your yeast is viable.  Skipping this step could result in your trying 
to make bagels with dead yeast, which results in bagels so hard and potentially 
dangerous that they are banned under the terms of the Geneva Convention.  You 
will know that the yeast is okay if it begins to foam and exude a sweetish, 
slightly beery smell.
        At this point, add about three cups of flour as well as the 2 tsp of 
salt to the water and yeast and begin mixing it in.  Some people subscribe to
the theory that it is easier to tell what's going on with the dough if you use 
your hands rather than a spoon to mix things into the dough, but others prefer 
the less physically direct spoon.  As an advocate of the bare-knuckles school 
of baking, I proffer the following advice: clip your fingernails, take off your 
rings and wristwatch, and wash your hands thoroughly to the elbows, like a 
surgeon.  Then you may dive into the dough with impunity.  I generally use my 
right hand to mix, so that my left is free to add flour and other ingredients 
and to hold the bowl steady.  Left-handed people might find that the reverse 
works better for them.  Having one hand clean and free to perform various tasks 
works best.
        When you have incorporated the first three cups of lour, the dough 
should begin to become thick-ish.  Add more flour, a half-cup or so at a time, 
and mix each addition thoroughly before adding more flour.  As the dough gets 
thicker, add less and less flour at a time.  Soon you will begin to knead it by 
hand (if you're using your hands to mix the dough in the first place, this 
segue is hardly noticeable).  If you have a big enough and shallow enough bowl, 
use it as the kneading bowl, otherwise use that clean, dry, flat countertop or 
tabletop mentioned in the "Equipment" list above.  Sprinkle your work surface 
or bowl with a handful of flour, put your dough on top, and start kneading.  
Add bits of flour if necessary to keep the dough from sticking (to your hands, 
to the bowl or countertop, etc....).  Soon you should have a nice stiff dough.  
It will be quite elastic, but heavy and stiffer than a normal bread dough.  Do 
not make it too dry, however... it should still give easily and stretch easily 
without tearing.
        Place the dough in a lightly oiled bowl, and cover with one of your 
clean kitchen towels, dampened somewhat by getting it wet and then wringing it 
out thoroughly.  If you swish the dough around in the bowl, you can get the 
whole ball of dough covered with a very thin film of oil, which will keep it 
from drying out.
        Place the bowl with the dough in it in a dry, warm (but not hot) place, 
free from drafts.  Allow it to rise until doubled in volume.  Some people try 
to accelerate rising by putting the dough in the oven, where the pilot lights 
keep the temperature slightly elevated.  If it's cold in your kitchen, you can 
try this, but remember to leave the oven door open or it may become too hot and 
begin to kill the yeast and cook the dough.  An ambient temperature of about 80 
degrees Farenheit (25 centigrades) is ideal for rising dough.  
        While the dough is rising, fill your stockpot with about a gallon of 
water and set it on the fire to boil.  When it reaches a boil, add the malt 
syrup or sugar and reduce the heat so that the water just barely simmers; the 
surface of the water should hardly move.
        Once the dough has risen, turn it onto your work surface, punch it 
down, and divide immediately into as many hunks as you want to make bagels.  
For this recipe, you will probably end up with about 15 bagels, so you will 
divide the dough into 15 roughly even-sized hunks.  Begin forming the bagels.  
There are two schools of thought on this.  One method of bagel formation 
involves shaping the dough into a rough sphere, then poking a hole through the 
middle with a finger and then pulling at the dough around the hole to make the 
bagel.  This is the hole-centric method.  The dough-centric method involves 
making a long cylindrical "snake" of dough and wrapping it around your hand 
into a loop and mashing the ends together.  Whatever you like to do is fine.  
DO NOT, however, give in to the temptation of using a doughnut or cookie cutter 
to shape your bagels.  This will pusht them out of the realm of Jewish Bagel 
Authenticity and give them a distinctly Protestant air.  The bagels will not be 
perfectly shaped.  They will not be symmetrical.  This is normal.  This is 
okay.  Enjoy the diversity.  Just like snowflakes, no two genuine bagels are 
exactly alike.
        Begin to preheat the oven to 400 degrees Farenheit.
        Once the bagels are formed, let them sit for about 10 minutes.  They 
will begin to rise slightly.  Ideally, they will rise by about one-fourth 
volume... a technique called "half-proofing" the dough.  At the end of the 
half-proofing, drop the bagels into the simmering water one by one.  You don't 
want to crowd them, and so there should only be two or three bagels simmering 
at any given time.  The bagels should sink first, then gracefully float to the 
top of the simmering water.  If they float, it's not a big deal, but it does 
mean that you'll have a somewhat more bready (and less bagely) texture.  Let 
the bagel simmer for about three minutes, then turn them over with a skimmer or 
a slotted spoon.  Simmer another three minutes, and then lift the bagels out of 
the water and set them on a clean kitchen towel that has been spread on the 
countertop for this purpose.  The bagels should be pretty and shiny, thanks to 
the malt syrup or sugar in the boiling water.  
        Once all the bagels have been boiled, prepare your baking sheets by 
sprinkling them with cornmeal.  Then arrange the bagels on the prepared baking 
sheets and put them in the oven.  Let them bake for about 25 mintues, then 
remove from the oven, turn them over and put them back in the oven to finish 
baking for about ten minutes more.  This will help to prevent flat-bottomed 
bagels.
        Remove from the oven and cool on wire racks, or on a dry clean towels 
if you have no racks.  Do not attempt to cut them until they are cool... hot 
bagels slice abominably and you'll end up with a wadded mass of bagel pulp.  
Don't do it.  
        Serve with good cream cheese.
 
TO CUSTOMIZE BAGELS: After boiling but before baking, brush the bagels with a 
wash made of 1 egg white and 3 tablespoons ice water beaten together.  Sprinkle 
with the topping of your choice: poppy, sesame, or caraway seeds, toasted onion 
or raw garlic bits, salt or whatever you like.  Just remember that bagels are 
essentially a savory baked good, not a sweet one, and so things like fruit and 
sweet spices are really rather out of place.  
 
                        END OF RECIPE
 
I hope you can understand this recipe.  I am in the process of making a batch 
right now.  They are delicious and very authentic.  I lived in New York (Bagel 
heaven, Hell for everything else except opera) and I must say that now that I 
have Johanne's recipe, I have no reason to go back there...
Enjoy.
                                                        -Carolina
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carolina Rodriguez                                      VOICE: (812) 339-4023
Indiana University
[email protected]
 
~~~
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Please allow several days for your submission to appear.
 
227.13What went wrong when making .12STAR::DIPIRROTue Mar 12 1996 15:2219
    	I've had the recipe in .12 laying around for a while, and I finally
    got around to trying it last week (during the snowstorm and to avoid
    working on my tax return). This recipe is similar but different from
    the others here. I'm wondering if people with experience making bagels
    can help me figure out what went wrong. My bagels didn't turn out too
    badly, but they were more "bready" than "bagelly."
    	I followed the recipe closely. I used my bread machine flour since
    I had a big bag of it handy. There was guesswork involved with this
    recipe. For instance, I wasn't exactly sure about the total amount of
    flour. The dough consistency seemed about right, but I wasn't sure.
    When rising, it didn't specify a time. It just said to double its
    volume. So this was a guess again. When my dough was spilling over the
    sides of the bowl, I decided it had risen enough! When I put my first
    bagel into the boiling water, it floated like a buoy right from the
    start. The rest were the same. My oven cooks hot, and I overcooked my
    bagels slightly, but my main problem is that they were very bread-like
    in consistency and taste. So I'm wondering if it was my flour, if the
    amount of yeast in the recipe is wrong, the amount of flour was wrong,
    my rising time was wrong, or something else. Any ideas?
227.14MOLAR::DELBALSOI (spade) my (dogface)Wed Mar 13 1996 09:225
I can't respond authoritatively, but I'll comment that when I first read the
recipe in .-2, my immediate reaction was "WOW! That's a LOT of yeast!". It
just struck me that the yeast:flour ratio was at least twice what I'm 
accustomed to for any bread baking. Then again, never having made bagels,
I could be way off base.
227.15Alot of yeast...SIPAPU::KILGOREThe UT Desert Rat living in COWed Mar 13 1996 09:417
When I make bread in my breadmaker, I use 3 C. bread flour and 1 tsp. yeast.
6-8 C. of flour and 4 Tbls. of yeast seems to be too much yeast.  But I'm like
.-1, I've never made bagels.  I'd like to someday and was thinking of using
this recipe.  Now I feel like I need to research other recipes to see what 
the proportion of yeast to flour is normally.

Judy
227.16PENUTS::DDESMAISONSperson BWed Mar 13 1996 12:043
  well, the other two recipes that are in this topic would tend to
  support the theory that the yeast amount is way off.
227.17The dough that ate Amherst, N.H....STAR::DIPIRROWed Mar 13 1996 12:215
    	Do you suppose it was a typo in the recipe, and they meant 2 tsp of
    yeast? I tell ya, my dough was alive and preparing to take over my
    kitchen. It looks like the other recipes take about 1 tsp and make
    about a dozen bagels where this recipe made 16 large bagels and could
    possibly have made 2 dozen normal-sized bagels.
227.18NEWVAX::LAURENTHal Laurent @ COPWed Mar 13 1996 21:4015
re: .14

>I can't respond authoritatively, but I'll comment that when I first read the
>recipe in .-2, my immediate reaction was "WOW! That's a LOT of yeast!". It
>just struck me that the yeast:flour ratio was at least twice what I'm 
>accustomed to for any bread baking. Then again, never having made bagels,
>I could be way off base.

I don't know, but from my experience making beer I'd expect that the initial
amount of yeast probably doesn't make that much difference, other than 
affecting how fast the yeast population starts growing.  The yeast population
grows exponentially, and stops when it runs out of food.  The population 
when it stops really doesn't have anything to do with the initial population.

-Hal
227.19Either slower rising, or less yeastHOTLNE::CORMIERThu Mar 14 1996 11:1211
    You can keep that amount of yeast if you want a real yeasty flavor. 
    However if you want chewy bagels you will have to let it rise very
    slowly, in a rather cool place, and watch it carefully.  When it gets
    almost double in bulk, punch it down.  You can control how much air
    gets incorporated into the dough that way, or you can cut down on the
    yeast.  I do make bagels from time to time, so you need a bit more
    yeast than for bread.  When you boil the dough it makes a skin
    which makes it difficult for the dough to rise during the baking
    process.  If you limit the amount of rising, it should produce chewier
    bagels.
    Sarah  
227.20Few things to try...STAR::DIPIRROThu Mar 14 1996 11:2810
    	So it sounds like I can probably reduce the amount of yeast
    considerable, not let it rise as much as I did, and perhaps do a better
    job of punching it down and getting the air out before forming the
    bagels and boiling them. I'll have to give that a try. Note that I
    tried sending email over the internet to the person who initially
    entered that recipe in rec.food.recipes, and I got a response. She said
    that she was pretty sure about the amount of yeast but would try
    experimenting with less and see what happened. So I must have done
    something else wrong. Was it OK to use my bread machine flour for this
    recipe?