Conference turris::cooks

	The preceeding recipe is intended for anyone, like me, who has seldom
	cooked popcorn let alone lattice-topped apple-rhubarb pies. If you
	have a freezer full of DEC turkeys, this is one way to reclaim
	valuable space for those ice-cubes you're so fond of.

	Since this was written (two years ago) I've modified the recipe -
	margarine is truly less rough on the arteries, and you can cut back
	on the salt quite a bit if you suffer from Industrial Disease (high
	blood pressure). BTW, the "gravy" instructions neglect to tell you
	that the gravy should be simmered for at least twenty minutes, unless
	you're fond of eating raw flour. (I know I am!)

	Digital is full of bachelors and bachelorettes who dine regularly on
	pizza and Big Macs - if anyone else has recipes for the rank novice,
	they would be appreciated by many.

	Max

No doubt you mean Bells poultry seasoning in your list of ingredients. I
can remember seeing the familiar yellow box with a turkey on it back when
I was a kid.

Easier stuffing:

1 bag pepperidge farm (or other brand) stuffing
all the giblets from the turkey/chicken
any of the following:
	a couple of stalks of celery, diced
	a diced onion, or a bunch of those little pearl onions
	some mushrooms
	some oysters (I don't like them in stuffing, but some folks do)
	some chestnuts (ditto)
	whatever else you remember from past turkey dinners

Earlier in the day:
	Locate the giblets in the turkey/chicken.  They're usually
inside it (this IS for the rank beginner, right?) in a little paper bag.
Take out the liver - cook it separately or feed it to the cat.  Put the
rest in a little pot and cover them with water.  Put in an onion, quartered,
a stalk of celery, cut to fit the pot, and a carrot, cut to fit the pot
(you could add some sage/tarragon/basil...). Cook this for about 2 hours.
Drain the liquid off and save it.  Discard the veggies (they're usually
tasteless).  Chop up all the giblets (heart, neck, and that other thing)
leaving out any bones, gristle or skin.  (The neck skin can also go to
the cat if she/he is not too fat already.  This gets the cat out from
under-foot for about 15 seconds.)  Dump it in a big bowl.

Get out the stuffing mix.  Follow the directions on the package EXCEPT use
the soup from cooking the giblets instead of plain water.  I usually add
some sage and tarragon to the mixture, and I use CUBE mix, not crumbs.

Actually, stuffing is hard to ruin unless you go for some exotic spices
that just don't work.  Since we don't have a large family, I usually roast
chickens instead of turkeys, and this recipe works for them too.  The mix
will usually tell you how to reduce the recipe.

	I usually use a wire whisk when making gravy.  It helps lessen
the posibilities of "those dreaded lumps".

There are very complete instructions in note #5.  My mom and I have been
using a slightly different (and from what I'm told, more ancient) method
the past couple Thanksgivings.  Follow the directions in note #5 for
thawing and stuffing, but complete these preperations a day in advance. 
When it comes to cooking the bird, cook at 200 degrees for one hour per pound
of bird.  If you have the typical DEC turkey, this should mean about 14 hours.
Keep the bird covered with tin foil for all but the last hour;  it essentially
bastes itself (although if you're brave and you don't mind getting up in
the middle of the night just to squirt juice over your next day's dinner,
the result in the long run is juicier).  This has been, for us, a sure-fire
method for the tenderest, juiciest bird ever - even and especially when its
been in the freezer a while...

I think I can help with a recipe that is just great and easy. As far as 
defrosting the turkey goes, I would think a cook book could help you there.
As far as how to cook it, try this on for size.

  I assume that you would want to stuff your bird. Make stuffing from scratch.
It's easy, butter, onions, celery, Bell seasoning, and cubed stuffing bread.
But.... make a couple of batches. Stuff the bird with one batch, and use the
second batch to line the bottom of the roasting pan. Cover the stuffing in the 
pan with water, put in the turkey on a v-shaped rack if you have it. Put the
washed turkey parts around the turkey.

  Bake this in a 325 oven adding water to pan to keep the stuffing in the bot-
tom liquid. The turkey is done when the leg moves easily. When it is done, re-
move it and the turkey parts. Remove the meat from the neck and chop this and
the other turkey parts. Add this chopped meat back to the liquid in the pan 
and put the pan on the stove. Bring to a boil, stirring so it doesn't burn and 
reduce to the desired consistency. This is the best turkey gravy you'll ever 
want to taste.

  Enjoy, it's worth th effort. Usually I freeze the leftovers and later on I
can reconstitute a great meal using my microwave. Before the microwave, steaming
it on the stove worked well too.


							/Bob

If I read response .1 correctly, it tells you to prepare and stuff the bird
a day in advance -- including cooking it immediately.

Let me make something perfectly clear -- unless you plan on cooking a stuffed
bird immediately, *NEVER* stuff it in advance.  If you do, you are inviting
food poisoning, the possibility of salmonella, or worse.

					Andrew

Re.3.....right on!!!! stuffing the day before, then putting stuffed bird
in refrig is asking for trouble...doesnt take that long to stuff bird the next
morning.  As for cooking a bird at 200 degrees for 14 hours....MY GOD thats
an awful long time to cook a bird!!!  Seems to me that the only variances
from the standard 350-375 cooking for anything is to cook at 400-450 for
a period of time to sear whatever and make it jucier...this takes it the
other way.  Ive never tried it....and I dont think I ever will.

As to defrosting the bird....dont just put it on the counter and let it
melt....food poisoning.....put it in the refrigerator for about two days.
that should do it.


Rick

Acutally, if we're listing dire possible consequences, I would add that
200 degrees is not hot enough to kill off all of the bacteria that might
like to live in the turkey.  I used to cook turkeys this way and never
had a problem, but after marrying a meat inspector's daughter, I've given
it up.  Again, I've never had a problem, but who can argue with the USDA?

						>>>==>PStJTT

    For the last few years we have been cooking our turkey in front
    of the fireplace.  The contraption I use is a jury-rigged combination
    of a rotissary motor and shaft, C-clamps, two automobile jackstands,
    a cement block, the wrench from my radial arm saw, and a big sheet
    of copper for a reflector.  Looks ridiculous but makes a delicious
    bird.  
    
    Make sure you have at least four of those rotissary shaft skewers to
    hold the bird in place.  The first year we didn't and as it cooked
    it tended to roll over as it got to the high side.
    
    One thing that makes it so good is the even cooking all the way
    around.  When you cook in the oven the bird often gets dried out
    on the top and the bottom is all greasy and collapsing.
    
    Because the bird is always going around it bastes itself continuously
    and you also get nice crisp skin all the way around.  Takes all
    day but the smell is great.
    

Wandering thru this NOTES now from the beginning, this is a bit late but
DEC turkeys are never out of season(ing)......

To avoid the dreaded "dry white meat" syndrome, you can take some of 
your stuffing, and stuff it between the skin and the breast of the bird 
(just shove it in with your hand, the skin separates from the breast 
real easily). For the amateurs, the breast is the top part when the bird 
is in "standard roasting position". Took me a while to figure out that 
turkeys got cooked upside-down.... Anyway, stuffing about a half to 3/4 
inch of stuffing over the breast (and maybe a couple pats of 
butter/margarine) keep the breast meat moist and give a real nice flavor 
to it.....
                                     Enjoy,
                                     ken

    STUFFING
    COMBINE:
    1 C. ONION , CHOPPED
    1 C. CELERY, CHOPPED
    1/2 C. GREEN PEPPER, CHOPPED
    
    SAUTE IN 4 TBSP. BUTTER UNTIL TENDER
    
    ADD:
    1 LB. STUFFING CUBES
    1 C. RAW POPCORN
    3 EGGS, BEATEN
    1 C. WATER
    
    STUFF TURKEY AND BAKE AT 350 DEGREES UNTIL POPCORN POPS AND BLOWS
    THE ASS OFF THE TURKEY.

    Does this really taste ok?
    
    --L

    RE.1
    JUST KIDDING

A FEW POINTERS FOR NOVICES:

     The stuffing may also contain:

     	Browned sausage meat (approx. 2 cups for 18 lb. bird)

     	Mincemeat (the brandy laced kind)...this makes a really
     	nice sweet tang to complement the bird.  I also add
        a diced, tart apple when I add mincemeat.  I use a
        large jar of it for an 18 lb. bird's worth of stuffing
        (of course, you want extra to bake in a casserole
         dish so I make lots of it.)

     The dry breast problem can be solved by adding 1 cup of
     white wine or water or stock to you roasting pan and covering
     the bird with foil while is roasts.  Remove the foil the
     last hour of cooking to brown nicely.  ALSO...cook at
     300 - 350 temperature, not higher.  For the purist, the
     solution is to cook the bird in a rack, breast side
     down for 2/3 cooking time and then turn it over to finish
     it...However, handling 20 lbs. of hot slippery bird is
     an invitation to disaster (especially after coffee with
     brandy).

     The bird is done when the drumstick moves easily when
     pushed up and down, usually approx 30 minutes/lb. of
     stuffed bird weight.

    
    RE: .6  "fireplace roasting time"
    
    Having taken note of the time this year, I can inform you that it
    took eight hours to cook a twelve pound, stuffed turkey.  The only
    thing that I can't stand is the noise from the little electric motor
    going all day in the living room.
    
    

    I have looked for something along this line (I KNOW I read about
    it somewhere), but could not find anything.  If a note exists, just
    point me to it.  
    
    Now for the problem:  Dry turkey.  Every time I have cooked turkey,
    it has come out dry.  Is this normal?  Am I doing something wrong?
    I have used DIGITAL turkeys (of course), as well as Butterball brand
    turkeys.  Any help with this will be appreciated, as I have to cook
    another one next week.  Oh yes, I don't stuff it, maybe I should?
     
    Thanks for your help fellow noters.  
    
    Bernice
     

    I have good luck using the Reynolds Turkey Size Browning Bags --
    follow the directions on the box.  I have used these on all my DIGITAL
    turkeys and have always had moist meat.  (I don't stuff mine, either.)
    
    
    Sharon
    
    

    
    
    
    	This is not meant as a rag....
    
    
    	Buy a fresh killed one at Bob's in Lancaster and
    	cook it like you have been.  I guarantee even the
    	singlest bachelor can do it.
    
    
    
    

    Re .0
    
    Sounds like you might be cooking it too long, at too high a
    temperature, not keeping it covered long enough or any combination
    of the above.
    
    Just curious...Do you keep it covered until the last hour or so?
    What temperature do you use?  How long per pound?
    
    Or, perhaps your oven is really running hotter than you thought.
    Do you use an oven thermometer?  
    
    Hate to say it, but it sounds like you're overcooking the bird.
    
    Evelyn

    Cook the bird under an aluminum foil "tent", and make sure to not
    overcook it - the pop-up thingies that come in a lot of packaged
    urkeys are szet for a very high internal temperature.  Ignore the
    pop-up and use a meat thermometer instead.  My mother-in-law always
    makes dry turkey, too, to the point where even now my husband will
    hardly eat turkey of any sort.

    I had problems with the BIG bird I cooked this year - never have
    had a dry 12-14 lb one.  I usually stuff it and also pull the breast
    skin away from the meat and put some really moist stuffing in there.
    Pat it down to firm it onto the bird, lace the bird closed, and
    you're in for some of the moistest white meat and crispiest skin
    ever!  I make sure I squirt some of the juice inSIDE the bird, as
    well as on top, just to make sure it doesn't dry out.
    
    However, the 18 lber that I cooked this year wasn't as moist.  Perhaps
    I'm just too spoiled by the pop-up timers - this one didn't have
    one of those and I had to use a thermometer.
    
    --Louise

I have good luck with the following procedure:

buy fresh bird whenever possible...if not fresh, defrost in the fridge
for two days, not in cold water in sink.  Anyway, get the bird 
thoroughly defrosted.  clean, pat dry, and rub with:

     	2 Tablespoons oil
     	2 Tablespoons paprika
     	2 teaspoons salt

Mix more of this in same ratio for really big birds.

Pre-heat oven to 375 degrees farenheit. Place bird in oven, cook for
30 minutes, reduce heat to 325 degrees farenheit.  Roast bird for
approx. 20 minutes/pound for birds under 16 lbs., approx. 15 minutes
per pound for big birds.  Baste every half hour or so with melted
butter alternated next time with flat, warm beer.  DON'T TRUST THE
OVEN OR the timer...check the bird with either a meat thermometer or by the
"flexible drumstick" test after the bird is nicely browned.

Flexible drumstick test:

     if the drumstick moves up and down easily when pushed, poke
the thigh with a fork...if the juice runs clear and not pink,
pull the bird from the oven immediately....

     LET THE BIRD SIT FOR 30 MINUTES WITHOUT CUTTING IT!!!!

This will allow the bird to rest, and the juices to set in the
meat.  If it is a good sized bird, it won't cool off during the
wait and you have time to prepare the gravy during that time.
Small birds should be covered with tin foil while waiting.

I have never had a dry bird and I have cooked 23 pounders frequently.
Another trick to having a moist bird is to cook smaller birds, but
the big ones are okay if tended properly.

Note:

You can tent the bird with tin foil if it is getting too brown
and remove the foil to allow the final browning.  I still recommend
basting the bird whether tenting it or not.

	I'm no  gourmet  cook, but my first roomie taught me how to cook
    turkey  and I've done it that way ever since. Mind you, this has all
    been  with the Dec turkeys and they've all had pop-up timers. what I
    do is the following:

	1. prepare stuffing per usual

	2. put stuffing into thawed bird

	3. wrap bird with cheesecloth that has been dipped/soaked in
	   butter. Make sure the timer pokes through the cheesecloth
	   so you can tell when it's done.

	4. put bird in oven and follow cooking directions. no tent
	   is necessary - turkey will brown to perfection and there 
	   will be minimal spatter.

	5. check turkey occasionally to see if there's any juice in 
	   the bottom of the pan. If there is suck it up with a baster
	   and squir it over the portions of the bird.  I always found
	   there to not be a whole lot of drippings.

	6. when the pop-up timer pops up, take bird out immediately.  
	   Allow to sit for a few minutes. 

	Since I  have no pan drippings, what do I do for gravy, you ask?
    Well,  you  just  strip  that bird of it's cheesecloth (and behold a
    golden bod) and dip the cheesecloth into a pot of water. Squeeze out
    the  cheesecloth,  and  voila,  instant drippings with which to make
    gravy!

	I've used this method 7 times, and have always had moist birds.

	I second the motion that you check the temperature of your oven,
    though.

	Good luck on your next one!!!!


		    Kathy

	I've read in some recipes that you should cook the bird breast down
	until the final hour, so that the juices run into the breast instead 
	of away from it.  The problem I've had is trying to turn a large hot 
	bird.

	One method I've used is to take the gobs of turkey fat from the cavity
	and pound them with a meat mallet till they just start to break apart.
	As an alternative, use bacon strips or pork fat.  Season the fat with 
	Marjoram and Thyme...about a teaspoon of each.  Then loosen the breast 
	skin, and slide the fat up under the skin.  As the turkey cooks, the 
	fat bastes the meat and crisps the skin.  This method keeps the breast 
	moist even on the BBQ.

						     
							- JP

	p.s. Don't forget to remove the wishbone before stuffing/cooking the
		bird...It makes it much easier to carve the breast, and you 
		get more slices from each side.

    I cook turkey in a VERY slow oven.  As my husband prefers 'dressing'
    to 'stuffing' [that is the same stuff but not actually in the bird
    while cooking] -- I fill the cavity while cooking with peeled halved
    apples and oranges.  The fruit gives up its moisture to the turkey
    and does not impart any flavour that I've noticed.  Also, I do not
    have to baste; in fact basting a turkey stuffed with fruit will
    yield a very soggy turkey.
    
    Annie

    I have always just basted every 20 minutes and have never had a
    dry turkey.  Also, I stuff with onions, carrots, celery, garlic 
    (lots), and "defat" the turkey before putting it into the oven.  
    I also rub it with butter, garlic, paprika and pepper and put the
    garlic cloves under the wings and drumsticks. As previously stated,
    fresh is best.

    Cooked a 20-plus pounder this year & used this suggestion from Good
    Food magazine at the check out counter.
    
    Stuff turkey as usual (I use a stuffing that includes apples and
    bacon).  Melt a stick of butter, add a couple cloves crushed garlic
    or equivalent of pre-crushed garlic that comes in a jar, then add
    enough bread crumbs to make a paste and spread on top of turkey
    before putting in oven.  Did not need foil or cheesecloth - was
    very moist, did baste often which would have reduced oven temp.
    Had enough drippings to make *plenty* of gravy with lots leftover
    for hot turkey sandwiches.

    Turkey skin does not allow the liquids to penetrate, so it is not
    the basting that keeps the meat moist.  Most likely it is the reduction
    of the oven temperature.  You can call the 800 number that the turkey
    industry (probably just Butterball?) has and ask them.
    
    Scott

        Many thanks to Michael Glassman who created this masterpiece and to 
        Sunset Magazine for printing it a few years ago.  I know I'm late 
        for Thanksgiving (I searched all over the house and just couldn't 
        find it), but as they say "Much better late than never!"
        
        
        
        
                "Somehow this Glorious Garlic Gobbler Reminds Us of
                   an Allegorical Painting on a Baroque Ceiling"
        
        
        
        "Perhaps a few people eat turkey at Thanksgiving solely as a duty, 
        but most of us regard it as a pleasure.  Still, as a Roman comedian 
        once observed, no pleasure endures unseasoned by variety.  In this 
        spirit, Michael Glassman gives us a bird seasoned by and with 
        variety.  His Garlic Gobbler is based on a family recipe he has 
        tinkered with over the years.
        
        Roasted to perfection, this glorious gobbler reminds us of an 
        allegorical painting on a baroque ceiling; borne aloft on a cloud 
        of its own fragrance into a constellation of garlic cloves, it 
        might be titled the Apotheosis of the Turkey.
        
        Don't shy at the quantity of garlic; cooking tames it.  The result 
        is moist, tender flesh with an elusive taste and aroma.
        
        GARLIC GOBBLER
        
          1	 turkey (18 to 20 lb.); thaw if frozen
          1/4	 cup minced or pressed garlic
          	    (about 25 large cloves)
          1	 teaspoon paprika
          1/2	 teaspoon salt
          3	 medium-size onions, thinly sliced
          1/2	 cup soy sauce
          6 to 8 slices bacon
          
        Remove giblets and neck from turkey cavities; reserve for other 
        uses.  Pull off and discard lumps of fat, then rinse bird inside 
        and out; pat dry.  Mix together the garlic, paprika, and salt.
        
        Ease your hand gently under the skin of the turkey, starting at the 
        neck end, until skin is separated from meat over the entire breast.  
        Work from the other end of the breast also, if necessary, taking 
        care not to tear the skin.  Smear garlic mixture between the skin 
        and breast meat inside the breast and body cavities and, if any 
        paste is left, rub it over the skin.
        
        Mix onion slices with half the soy sauce; stuff into turkey 
        cavities.  Pull skin over neck cavity; secure to back with a 
        skewer.  Place bird, breast side up, on a rack in a roasting pan 
        (about 11 x 17 in.).  Cover with plastic wrap and chill overnight.
        
        Remove plastic wrap and cover breast with bacon.  Drizzle on 
        remaining soy sauce, then cover breast with a tent of foil.  Roast 
        in a 325 degree oven until a thermometer inserted in the thickest 
        portion of breast (not against bone) registers 170 degrees, about 
        11 minutes a pound if weight includes the giblets and neck (12 
        minutes a pound if weight is bird only), or 3 1/4 to 3 3/4 hours.
        
        Move bird to a platter or carving board.  If desired, discard bacon 
        and onions.  Let turkey stand 15 to 20 minutes before carving.  
        Makes 12 to 16 servings.
        
        One way to vary this recipe is to try a bird besides turkey...
        

In truth, basting does several things:

1.     	it lowers the temperature of the oven as previously mentioned
2.   	it adds moisture to the oven environment to help maintain
     		moisture in the meat
3.     	it seals the skin by "frying" it, thereby trapping juices
     		in the meat (if you use fat to baste)
 

According to my expert (mother, don't you know), the real secret to
having a juicy bird is to cook it at the right temp, don't overcook
it, and LET IT REST BEFORE SLICING IT.  The final point is the
most important according to mom....she says basting makes better
gravy and helps because it keeps the oven moist while roasting.

    WOW...talk about feedback to what can I do for dry turkey....someone
    should collect all these answers and we can generate a DEC Turkey
    Paper....
    
    My vote will simply go for.....youre overcooking the bird....
    
    Rick

    I knew if I asked the experts I would get an answer.  I just didn't
    expect so many.  THANKS BUNCHES!!!  The too hot oven and too long a
    time are probably the culprits.  I'm buying an oven thermometer
    this weekend and checking it out.  I also like several of the
    other suggestions and will probably try them out also.  After all,
    my parents now have four turkeys in their freezer, three DEC and
    one "other".  
    
    Rick - I have extracted all the replies thus far into a file and
    printed them for myself.  If anyone would like a copy of these
    suggestions, do a SEND/AUTHOR at this reply and I will send it
    to you.  
    
    Bernice No_more_dry_turkeys_at_my_house
    

    To prevent a dry turkey I make turkey stew out of my DEC turkey
    and use a fresh turkey for roast turkey dinners.
    
    Cooking the turkey breast-down for the first 3/4 of the cooking
    time does help keeping the turkey moist.  But, it's sometimes hard
    to flip it and the breast gets beaten up a little bit so it doesn't
    look as nice when you serve it.
    
    So, get a fresh turkey!!
    

    Well,  I finally cooked my turkey.  Thanks to all those who said
    too hot too long.  The Monday before Christmas I "prepared" an 18
    lb turkey for baking.  Since I never got around to buying an oven
    or meat thermometer, I set the oven at 300 degrees (cookbook said
    325), placed two cut apples in the turkey's cavity, and covered
    him with an aluminum foil tent.  I then placed him CAREFULLY in the
    oven.  Five hours later I removed the foil and, since the pop-up
    thing had not yet popped up, set the timer for 15 minutes.  Somewhere
    between 5 1/4 to 5 1/2 hours is the total time it took to cook the
    turkey (interestingly enough the cookbook said 5 1/2 - 6 1/2 hrs
    for a 15-20 lb turkey).  It was DELICIOUS!!!!  Very moist, even
    the leftovers are moist.  Thanks so much to all you helpful experts.
    
    
    Bernice
    

    We did some experimentation with this year's turkey, mostly due
    to the Frugal Gourmet. After seeing the show on confits, I wanted
    to try it, so, having this turkey lying around, I gave it a shot.
    
    First I thawed the turkey, then cut it apart; the carcass, wing
    tips, and drumsticks went into the soup pot, and the rest went into
    the confit (thighs, wings, and four big chunks of breast meat).
    
    The pieces were coated with a mixture of salt and spices, packed into a
    crock and weighted down, and put in the refrigerator for two days. Then
    I washed the salt mixture off of the pieces and stewed them slowly for
    a couple of hours in a pot of melted fat (geese and ducks usually have
    enough fat of their own, but for turkeys or chickens you need to supply
    some additional lard). 
    
    By this time the house was deliciously scented with "roast fowl",
    but I wasn't finished yet. The pieces, practically falling off the
    bone, were placed in a glass bowl and covered with the hot fat;
    this was allowed to cool and then refrigerated for another couple
    of days. (Originally, this procedure was used to preserve meats,
    and supposedly one can keep meat thus prepared for several weeks,
    or even longer.)

    Now I'm sure some of you are gasping in horror; all that salt! all
    that fat! This certainly wouldn't be a good recipe for anyone on
    a salt-restricted diet, but the majority of the salt is rinsed off,
    and the fat melts away in the final cooking step, when the pieces
    are browned in a skillet.
    
    The result? Extremely tender turkey, tasting of the spices in which
    it had been marinated. I was delighted with the results, and now
    I'm hankering to make a confit of goose - *that* should be truly
    rich.

    -b

    Be sure to stuff the bird JUST BEFORE you are going to cook it (bake
    it). 
    
    Also, remove the stuffing from the bird BEFORE you refrigerate the
    leftovers.
    
    Doing otherwise will increase the risk of possible salmonella
    poisoning, and you don't EVER want this to happen to you!

    To avoid dry white meat, I take an apple, peel it, then slice it
    and toothpick it to the bird in several places on the breast.  The
    juices from the apple will soak into the bird and some will be
    in the drippings for the gravy.   
    
    

>    To avoid dry white meat, I take an apple, peel it, then slice it
>    and toothpick it to the bird in several places on the breast.  The
>    juices from the apple will soak into the bird and some will be
>    in the drippings for the gravy.   

Great idea!  Try slipping the apple slices between the skin and
the breast meat before roasting to keep the bird looking nice and
brown.  Its easy, just gently pull up the skin and work your
fingers under it to make a pocket....I have often imbedded dressing
under the skin to get the same results (non-dry breast meat).

			D

    We don't often have trukey (I usually give away the DEC ones) since
    my husband (Paul YOUNG::YOUNG) doesn't much care for it, but one
    way to keep the breast juicy is to drape it with cheesecloth, and
    then bake the turkey in a foil tent until the last half hour or
    so of its expected baking time.  When you remove the tent, you can
    then baste the cheesecloth several times with the pan drippings,
    and the cheesecloth will hold the juices next to the meat and keep
    it from getting dried out.  Believe it or not, the cheesecloth doesn't
    end up badly stuck to to the skin, and you can easily pull it off
    when the bird comes out of the oven without ruining your pretty
    presentation.   You can usually get cheesecloth in a normal grocery
    store (look in the section of oddball odds and ends you usually
    skip past).

    
    
    #1 - What is all this about DEC Turkeys??  I'm only a six month
    DEC Employee ( am I missing something?)
    
    #2 - Just when you think you've heard them all - One more Tasty
    way to keep the white meat juicy. :
    
    Herb Butter
    
    Soften 1c. or so butter or margarine.  Mix in 2T finely chopped
    onion, celery.  Add Tarragon, Poultry Seasoning, Parsley or the like.
    Mix well.  Gently stuff under the skin of the breast.  Cover with
    aluminum foil for part of cooking to keep from over browning. MMmm
    MMmm good!!
    
    #3. If neatness counts..... Use a heel from a loaf of bread to contain
    in-bird stuffing before lacing.  I usually cook more chickens than
    turkeys, but don't see that this wouldn't work, unless they're REAL
    big.
                    

    Have you seen what the Frugal Gourmet does to keep the turkey moist?
    He has this syringe and he fills it with melted butter and sherry...
    then he sticks it in the bird in the breast, legs, thighs. etc....
    
    Looks interesting and Ill bet the flavor is great
    
    Rick

    Another way to keep the white meat moist...
    
    Cook the turkey, on a turkey rack, breast side down, covered.  This
    way, instead of all the juices running to the useless bottom of the 
    turkey they accumulate in the white meat area.  About 1 hour before 
    done turn to breast side up and brown.

    Be careful turning the bird, it is HOT!
    

    One way to keep the turkey moist and the skin crispy which I haven't
    seen mentioned is to use two paper bags inserted within each other
    with the turkey inside. It's sometimes a little difficult to do
    but it makes the turkey the best you've ever had.  Make sure you
    stuff it and sprinkle bell's poultry seasoning on it before you put
    it into the bags. P.S. If you don't understand what I mean about
    inserting the bags, you insert them so there is no opening on either
    end. By the way my grandmother has been doing this for years and
    we have never had an over cooked or dry turkey yet!

    Some technical questions here :                 
    	1. what happens to the bottom of the paper bag once
        the turkey starts to emit juice and fat onto the pan ?
        Does she still put the bird onto a rack after putting
        it into the bags. I am afraid of it getting messy.
    
        2. are we talking about grocery store bags ? so there
        is no cardboard type aftertaste...? Now that I think
        of it, i think i have seen turkey bags sold in super-
        markets (?)  Is there a certain kind to use?
    
    	nothing worse than dry turkey, yep !

The grocery stores sell "brown-in bags" for turkey sizes around this
time of year.  They are the clear, plastic type of bag you put a
large stuffed bird in, close with twist tie, and then puncture the
top in a few places...they work well, but for a large bird, I still
put something between the skin and the breast meat to prevent dry-out.

			For what it's worth..

				D

    I have heard of the paper bag method but don't you have to grease
    the bag or something?  I would think it would catch on fire otherwise.
    
    C

    I don't wish to be alarmist, but someone recently was cautioning
    me against using brown kraft paper grocery bags in cooking because
    they are stored in wharehouses in which pesticides and rodenticides
    are freely used.  Does anyone have further info?
    
    

    Since I was lucky enough to find the recipe/variations of 7 layer
    dip/tex-mex dip, I felt I should return a little something to the
    file.
    
    
    Taken from an article in the Boston Herald Food Section
    
    The Butterball Turkey Talk line can be reached by calling
    1-800-323-4848. Hours are as follows: Monday - Friday until 11/27
    from 8 a.m. till 8 p.m. Saturday and sunday 11/14-11/15 and 11/21-11/22
    from 8a.m. to 6 p.m. and from 6a.m. to 6 p.m. on Thanksgiving day.
    From Nov 30th to Dec 24th from 8a.m. to 6p.m. Alltimes are central
    standard time.
    
    
    This hot line answers all questions related to turkey preparation
    as well as side dishes etc.
    
    al flood 

Quite right! I've also read this warning in the newspaper and a
nutritional newsletter.  They are treated too much to be used.
However, you can make your own by using the brown paper used by
cooks, it comes in rolls like aluminum foil and can be greased
and them wrapped around the bird...check your local bakeware
shop or gourmet store for it.

I am cooking a 25 pound fresh turkey for Thanksgiving.  Does anyone have
an idea how long it will take to cook?  My cookbook says that if its over
16 lb. then it will take 7 hours.  Well seeing that it is almost 10 lb over
will it still only take 7 hours?

Also, has anyone had any experience with cooking fresh turkeys?  Someone
suggested cooking it upside down, so that it won't dry up.

Any help is appreciated.

Sue

	I am also cooking same size fresh turkey so I was reading
	Joy of Cooking last night and this is what they say :

	Most turkeys are 20 minutes per pound however at larger
	sizes (i.e. > 20), reduce it to 15 minutes per pound. Then
	add 5 minutes per pound if it is stuffed. So this brings
	us back up to 20 minutes per pound which comes out to
	8 hours and 20 minutes for a stuffed 25 pound turkey!

	Also use a thermometer to double check for an internal
	reading of 190 degrees (insert between thigh and breast)
	without touching any bone).

	Then they recommmend to maintain juiciness and maximum
	flavor to insert bird in oven preheated at 450 degrees
	and immediately turn down to 350. This will seal in
	the good stuff. 

	Also, other noters have recommended letting the turkey
	sit for 45 min to an hour after leaving oven.

	Good luck...the 8 hour bit I find a little overwhelming
	but the thermometer should help and I would begin checking
    	it at the 7 hour mark (i.e. see if leg starts to pull away
    	from rest).
                                                             

In my experience, it never takes as long as the cookbooks say...I have
seen as little as 4 hours for a big bird, so watch out.  For a bird
that large, I would cook the bird breast-side-down in a roasting rack.
It won't look as pretty, but dried out breast meat is a drag...also,
you can cook the normal position, but place some well-buttered
stuffing between the skin and the meat for moisture retention.  Baste
approx. every 30 minutes.  Recommended cooking temperature is 325
degrees in most cookbooks, and I've had good luck with that temp,
but if you baste frequently, you can probably go to 350.

Have you checked the brown-in bags for turkeys?  They sell them
this time of year and they will hold a large bird.  They reduce the
cooking time and leave a juicy bird.

Whatever you do, don't slice the bird immediately from the oven,
but let it "rest" for approx. 20 minutes...you can remove
the stuffing immediately if you stuffed the bird.

    I agree with .2.  I haven't had any personal experience with a bird
    that big, but my dad was a champ, and I know he never cooked a bird
    for 7-8 hours!  I would say 4-5 hours will do it.
    
    Dad used to cook the turkey breast-side up, but cover it loosely
    with tin foil for the first couple of hours.  Then he uncovered
    it to let it brown.  Perhaps this also helped to keep the meat moist
    because he rarely served a dry turkey.
    
    Good luck!

Thanks for all your help.  The turkey turned out perfect!!  It took 7 hours.
I cooked it upside down for the first 4 hours and then flipped it over.  Some
of the skin came off the breast when I turned it, so I attached apple slices 
on it with toothpicks (a suggestion in another note) and kept it covered with 
foil the whole time.  I also basted it every 1/2 hour after the first 3 hours.
Even though it was a fresh turkey, it had a pop-up timer.  The timer never 
popped up though, it might be because it was upside down?  I hope everyone has 
as good luck as I did.  The DEC turkey that some of us get should be a breeze
after this one!

Sue

    At my supermarket, they were handing out copies of USDA Pamphlet
    735, entitled "Let's Talk Turkey".  Some interesting things I learned:
    Turkeys are a salmonella risk just like chicken. Thoroughly wash
    anything in your kitchen that comes in contact with the uncooked
    turkey. Always thaw in the fridge or cold water - if the latter,
    change it every thirty minutes. Use a meat thermometer in the thickest
    part of the thigh (not touching bone) - T will equal 180F when done.
    Stuffing should reach 165F. Do not stuff until immediately prior
    to cooking.
    
    Uncooked turkeys frozen below 0F will last one year. Fresh turkeys
    should be cooked within 1 to 2 days of getting them home from the
    store, as long as your fridge stays below 40F.
    
    When you remove the turkey from the oven, a timer starts ticking
    as bacteria counts begin climbing. You have two hours to get the
    bird served and back into the fridge before it becomes a hazard
    to human life.
    
    Somehow, those cheery folks at USDA can take all the fun out of
    serving a holiday turkey.

    I've read various methods in here for keeping the breast meat
    of the turkey moist, but I'm surprised not to have seen the 
    method I use, which I suspect is a very simple secret that
    maybe I shouldn't divulge. (Actually maybe it's just an English
    custom).
    Before wrapping the bird in its tent of foil, lay strips of
    bacon across the breast so the breast is entirely covered. As
    the turkey cooks the bacon works as an automatic baster. About
    30-45 minutes before the turkey is completely cooked, remove the
    bacon and drop it into the fat in the bottom of the roasting pan.
    Remove the foil at the same time. The breast will still be white
    at this point, but another half hour in the oven will brown it
    nicely. The oven temperature should be raised somewhat at this point
    too. 
    By the time you're done, the bacon has been gently cooking in turkey
    fat and is absolutely delicious. Either serve it with the turkey
    or eat it furtively in the kitchen as a special chef's treat
    while you make the gravy.
    
    ...Robert
    

    Has anyone out there tried barbequed turkey?
     If you haven't try it some time.
    The best turkey I've ever had was bbq'd.
    Simple procedure,heat up grill (double burner gas works best)
    place the bird on the grill and brown the back turn over and brown
    the breast at this point turn off one burner and place the bird
    on that side of the grill. Cooking your bird on the grill cuts cooking
    time just about in half(I cooked my bird for Thanksgiving,12# in
    @ 2 1/2hrs).                
    When you clean and prepare the bird for cooking try to get rid of
    as much of the fat as possible,this will give you less flare-ups
    (fire)never the less it would be to your advantage to keep a small
    spray bottle around to put out any fires to keep from charing the
    bird. You have to keep a close watch on it, keep the breast down
    for about 80% of the time, and prepare your self for the best tasting
    bird you'll ever have!!!                   
    One more tip,as the bird cooks and the temperature (of the side
    with no flame) drops you might want to move it to the
    side of the grill that has the flame once there turn that burner
    off and ignite the now cooler burner,this process should be done
    three to four times while cooking. 

    I agree you'll never want to eat turkey any other way again
    after it has been BBQ.  I also cook in on a gas grill with and
    exception.  Instead of putting in on the grill itself I put
    it on an rotisserie it cooks more evenly.  I baste it every
    now and then with a sauce that i make up.
    
    Kimberley
    

I've done mine in a Weber grill.  With soaked hickory chips or soaked bark 
from a shag bark hickory, or green apple wood (sucker shoots).

						     
							- JP

    Do you Have to stuff the turkey ?, How does one adjust the cooking
    time if it is not stuffed ?
    
    							thanks.
    
    							John

>    Do you Have to stuff the turkey ?, How does one adjust the cooking
>    time if it is not stuffed ?

No.  In fact, if you want to cook a bird in a hurry, roasting without
stuffing is the best way.  Adjusting times is not quite so cut and
dried....The bigger the bird, the less roasting time per pound is
required, so you can't just cut time by a certain percentage and come
out okay.  In general, I work two ways:


	When trying to plan how much time to allow for bird roasting,
	I figure 15 minutes/pound at 325 to 350 degrees for the
	birds 14 pounds and bigger.  I plan approx. 20 minutes/pound
	for birds 13 pounds or smaller...these times are for birds
	that are thoroughly defrosted, but refrigerated and cold when
	roasting starts.  Never leave a bird on the counter to warm
	up, they are hot beds of salmonella when brought to room temp.

	Always roast with a meat thermometer - you can't go wrong.
	Place the thermometer in the bird (thigh), not touching bone;
	remove the bird from the oven when the temp is just a hair
	shy of the poultry temp marked on the thermometer.  Leave
	untouched on the kitchen counter for 15 minutes and it will finish
	cooking to just the correct temperature.

    So how come my turkey breasts always take so much longer to cook
    than they're supposed to?
    
    What I do, since I'm trying to make them very low fat, is
    	remove the skin
    	separate out the back from the breast
    	put the thawed turkey on a rack
    	put the rack in a pan that has about 2 cups of broth in it
    	season the turkey
    	cover the top of both the breast and the back pieces with
    	  a small piece of foil, one that does not "wrap around"
    	  the turkey, but protects it from over-browning
    	Roast at 325.
    
    	the last one was 9 lbs.  The back pieces were done in 4 hours,
    	the breast took about 6.
    
    	is the problem the foil?  The broth?  what can I do to keep
        the fat low (removing the skin) but not prolong the cooking?
    	Should I use a higher temperature?  Will that make it tough?
    
    Looking forward to responses - we're tired of eating at 9 on turkey
    nights!
    
    --Louise

Fact:  The fastest, low fat, methods of cooking meat are pressure cooking
or poaching.  If you cut the meat into even chunks without bone, it will
poach up very quickly...you might try this.

Now, why is it taking so long to roast your breast?  Well, first I'd make
sure I had the breast bone intact, big chunks of meat without bone take
longer.  Second, I'd check my oven temp with a separate oven thermometer
to make sure it is accurate.
Finally, I'd baste the bird frequently while roasting, but NOT add the
broth to the pan while roasting.  What you are doing is an inefficient
method of steaming and I'm not surprised it takes so long to cook a 
large breast....if you want to steam the bird more efficiently, cover
bird and pan with foil sealed to the edges with approx. 2 cups of
broth in the roasting pan.  Roast at approx. 350 to 375 degrees temp.
and check after approx. 2 hours to see if juices run clear when the
bird is poked.  Use heavy duty foil for this and seal to pan really
well to hold in steam and force cooking.

    Thanks!  The bone was there and I do have a separate oven thermometer,
    so it must be the broth, then.  I thought broth in the pan would keep
    the bird moist, but what you're saying makes sense.  I'll try the
    higher temperature and the completely sealed system method next
    time - I'm afraid if I just dry roast the breast, it will end up
    too dried out, since the skin is off and there'd be little fat to
    seal the juices in.

    --Louise

Louise,

	I have heard that by sticking an aluminum nail (available in cooking
stores) into a baked potato will decrease its cooking time, the idea being that
the nail conducts heat to the center of the spud faster than the potato does.
I wonder if the same trick wouldn't work with your turkey???

					Al

I second this.  We just smoked a stuffed oven stuffer roaster (chicken) 
in our Weber and IT WAS FANTASTIC !!!

You get the smoked taste but still get all of the trimmings.  This is 
also a great way to have a full turkey dinner in the summer when you 
don't want to deal with the oven.

WE have the directions book with the timings, but if you just let it go 
till the thing popps up, it will be perfect.

We also did a roast beef in our grill, equally as fantastic.

Pork roast is next !!!!

Karen

    I'm having a dinner party on saturday and i would like to know
    how long should a turkey be cooked.. its the one i got from DEC
    at Christmas.. it is 18 lbs.. any suggestions on what to serve
    with it would be apprieciated.. The books i read said 30 minutes
    a pound.. thats 9 hrs. wouldn't this dry it out.. the dinner is
    at 7:00 pm i don't want to put it in 9 hrs earlyer and find out
    that its done at 4:00pm .. then what would i do.. no microwave?
    
    thanks in advance..
    
    carl 
    
     

    
    
    How did you get an 18 pound turkey!!!  Nobody in my building got
    larger than 14 pounds.  Thats not fair!
    
    
    One tip... I went by the book and the notes and I cooked the
    turkey for 20 minutes a pound at 350.  Then I cooked it for
    another half hour because the thing they put in the turkey to
    tell if it is done was not up.  Thinking that maybe the thing
    was broken I took the turkey out and served it.  Well, guess
    what.... the turkey was not cooked.  So go by the thing in the
    turkey!    (pop-up timer)

    I like to cook my DEC bird in a cooking bag.  There isn't any
    basting this way and it cooks faster.  Also it usually comes out
    much more moist.  Another suggestion that I haven't tried yet but
    was told to try is to cook it breast side down.  This way all the
    juices stay in the breast of the bird and the breast meat stays
    more moist.  You can find the cooking bags at the grocers.  Good
    luck!
    
    Addie

    A sure fire way to keep your Turkey moist is to use cheescloth.
    (Can be purchased in your supermarket - generally in the cleaning
    products area).  Cut a piece large enough to cover the bird.  Melt
    a good amount of butter or margarine.  Put the cheescloth into the
    butter, and then lay it over the bird.  Cook in the regular way.
    After the first hour, remember to baste every 30-60 minutes.  When
    the Turkey is finished, removed the cheescloth immediately (Otherwise
    it tends to stick to the skin).  You should end up with a nice brown,
    juicy Turkey.  I taught my husband this method 7 years ago - it
    was the last time I cooked a Turkey!.
    
    Nanci

    I have cooked a turkey every thanksgiving for the past 33 years
    and my advise is to cover the bird with some kind of oil (margarine,
    olive oil) then cover the bird with aluminum foil.....this hold
    in moisture in and you won't have to baste.....the last 1/2 hour
    you remove the foil...don't panic....your bird will still be rather
    pale......continue cooking bird until it is a nice brown.  30 minutes
    per pound is correct.  Good things to serve are mashed potatoes
    or nice rice (not minute rice) or maybe you like noodles.  A green
    vegetable (peas, beans whatever) perhaps a nice squash dish, if
    you're planning stuffing it really isn't necessary to have bread
    unless you want to have dinner rolls.
    
    Your concern about the bird being done and your guests haven't arrived
    is easy to fix.  Again, cover the bird with foil and then wrap the
    whole thing in a blanket.  You heard me right! a blanket!  This
    will keep the bird warm for almost 5 hours.
    
    How did you get a 18 lb bird?
    
    I know lots of cooking hits ...... I've certainly been cooking long
    enough.  
    
    
    Anne

    Those little aluminum nails are great!  In fact they are used mainly
    for roasts from what I hear.  My mother-in-law gave them to me quite
    a while back.  I use them for spuds all the time and they do cut
    the time down considerably, in fact the potato is better with them.
    Just the other day my mother-in-law laughed at me for using them
    in potatos, saying the are primarily for roasts.  Hell I'll use
    in anything to speed things up.  By the way I have used them for
    roasts, poultry, etc. they are great for cutting down time and helping
    the meat cook more evenly. Try it.
    
    
    Sal

    Louise,
    
    You might try using the "Oven Cooking Bags" -- used to be
    called "Brown N Bags", I think.  I've had great success 
    with these when I've wanted to cook meat or poultry faster
    but keep it moist and tender.  Add some broth to the bag 
    with your turkey.
    
    					Donna

    How long can you keep the Digital Turkey in the freezer before you
    cook it?  I haven't had a chance to cook it yet and would like to 
    either this weekend or next...  I didn't rewrap it in freezer paper... 
    it went in the freezer the same way they gave it to us.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Pam 

    I was always told you shouldn't keep a turkey longer than 6months.
     however, I have cooked my "DEC" turkey the following year for
    Christmas dinner and not had any problem.  I think it also has to
    do with what kind of freezer you use (refrigerator freezer, or deep
    freezer)?  The deep freezer being able to keep it longer.
    
    Joyce

We once cooked our Digital turkey, which had been kept in a no-frost freezer,
in July. A no-frost freezer is the warmest of the various different kinds of
freezers.

That doesn't mean that it was a good idea, though.

- Mike

    I have regularly cooked my DEC turkey the following Thanksgiving
    with no problems at all. I store mine in a frost-free refrigerator
    freezer.
    
    Debbie
    

    11 months seems to be the average among people I know. If your freezer
    is 0 degrees Farinheit or below, there shouldn't be any problem
    keeping the turkey a year. The only problem I can think you might
    run into, is if the bag had a tear in it. Then you might end up
    with a freezer burned turkey. 
    
    If your freezer isn't that cold, I wouldn't advise much more than
    6 months.
    
    It's really important to know how cold your freezer is. A good
    freezer/refrigerator thermometer only costs a couple dollars.
    
    Tamzen

    PAM, you can freeze turkey or chicken up to one year maybe even
    1 and 1/2 , if your freezer is in good shape. If you need anything
    else just call .
    HAVE A NICE DAY
    BETTY

    
    
    	Has anyone tried to cook the bird in the micro wave oven yet?
    I had to use this method one time. I thawed the bird, made the
    dressing, stuffed the turkey and put the oven on to pre-heat while
    doing this. All of a sudden, the kitchen is full of smoke. The oven
    bake element was melting and turning WHITE HOT!! HOLY (YOU KNOW)!!
    
    	Good thing I had a NUKE_IT_OVEN!! And company comming too. 
    
    	I just opened the Micro wave oven cook book and followed the
    directions 'till the bird was done. Instead of the normal 4-1/2hrs.
    it was just 1-3/4hrs. and it was moist!

I believe  there  are some health risks involved with using a microwave oven
to cook turkeys. Apparently there are some bacteria in the skin which nuking
doesn't  kill.  Although in the case you mentioned, there was no choice, you
should  probably  cook  the bird at a high temperature for about 15 min to a
half hour before nuking.

- Brad

    This method I have been talking about is to use 2 grocery
    bags...shopping bags that you carry your groceries in.  Use 
    the lowest rack available and squish the corners down.  I have never
    had a problem with fires.  Also time the turkey 1/2hr per pound
    depending on how your oven heats.  To remove the turkey all you
    have to do is rip away the paper.  Beleive me it's been done this
    way in our family for decades and there has never been a problem!
    
    

    The problem with grocery bags is that often they're sprayed
    with chemicals/pesticides in the factory to keep bugs out of
    them.  The amounts that are left are not a problem (according
    to the FDA, I suppose) when the bags are used to contain packaged
    foods.  However, it is not recommended that they be used to cook
    turkeys.
    
    Or is this just a rumor started by the people who manufacture
    special turkey cooking bags?
    
    --Louise

    I would like to try and cook my DEC turkey on the grill
    this weekend but I have some questions...
    
    Are you supposed to put the turkey right on the grill with no
    pan or foil??  Wouldn't it burn like this?  Wouldn't it be dry?
    Someone said something about putting it on a "rotisserie"?  What
    is this?  As you can see, I am very new to turkey cooking and
    any help would be appreciated.  By the way, I have a gas grill
    and my turkey is about 12-13 lbs.
    
    Thanks.

    Being a vegetarian, I will hazard a guess since everyone else seems
    tohave left early for vacation :-).  I suspect you either dismember
    the turkey into large hunks that you cook directly on the grill,
    like you would "ribs", or you use a rotisserie which is, I think,
    something that skewers the turkey thru the middle and rotates it
    so it cooks evenly.  I don't know how that works with the average
    backyard grill.  I suspect it would take forever to cook that way.
    And I don't know how you'd fit the dismembered turkey all onto the
    grill at once the other way.
    

DEC turkeys are the perfect size for doing on a gas grill.  This is the best
way to have turkey!  

What I normally do is cook the turkey in the microwave for 1/2 to 3/4 of the
MICROWAVE cooking time (look in your microwave cookbook for this).  Then I put
it on the rotisserie skewer, but, the turkey is too heavy for the rotisserie so
we don't turn the rotisserie on, just turn it by hand a few times. Oh, yeah,
take the grate/grill part of the gas grill out so all you have are the coals and
we use wood chips - either mesquite or smoked - just make sure you soak them
good or you will burn up your turkey.  Leave the turkey on the grill for 1/2 hr.
to 45 min. or until the timer pops up.  Sometimes I have had the timer pop
while the turkey is in the microwave.  I still put it on the grill for a 1/2 hr.
and it has never been dryed out.  I also put a whole apple inside the turkey 
before I put it in the microwave - pierce the apple a few times though.  I got
the apple tip from someone in this notesfile - it's supposed to keep the turkey 
moist.

Hope it comes out good!

    
    I have cooked a turkey on the grill, but I use a Weber charcoal
    grill. I personally don't like gas grill cooking and don't know
    if you can do the same thing that I do.  With charcoal I get the
    coals good and hot, and push them to the out side edge of the grates,
    place a foil pan in the center so that the coals surround the foil
    pan. Place the turkey over the foil pan (to catch the drippings).
    Add charcoal (about 20 briquets at a time) as the coals start to
    burn down. Keep covered during cooking, baste in your favorite
    seasoning. Mine took about 3 1/2 to 4 hours  for the pop up thing
    to pop. Oh!! it was about 12 lbs.
    

    Thank you all for the helpful tips.  I think I will give it
    a shot this weekend and see what happens!
    
    By the way, is it possible to just put the turkey
    in an aluminum pan, covered with foil and just stick
    it on the grill and let it cook for the duration?  The 
    less complicated, the better....
    
    Happy New Year!!!

    
    
    I suppose it would work if the flame or heat source were not directly
    under the pan.

    I have cooked a DEC turkey on a gas grill and it came out very
    good. I cooked the turkey right on the grill without any pans or
    alluminum foil. I browned the turkey then used the indirect heat
    method. It is a two burner grill, put the turkey on one side with
    the bruner off and turn the other burner on low, and close the cover.
    I basted the turkey with a marinade every now and then. I think
    the turkey cooked for 3 hours but I'm not sure.
    
    Linda
    
    

>	However, it is not recommended that they be used to cook
    turkeys.
        
Tis true - it is not recommended - some folks do it, but it is one
more way to get pesticides into ya, and I, for one, pass.

    Yes, you can freeze poultry for up to a year in the freezer. I remember
    reading somewhere though that after 6 months most of the nutrients will
    be gone and the only good eating it will do is to fill you up. The same
    thing goes for most other types of meat. It will still retain most of
    it's flavor.
    

    Somehow I think that rates up there with the stories about poodles
    and microwaves - another urban myth.  It *is* true that some 
    nutrients degrade with age.  Vitamin C, along with the other
    water soluble vitamins, are among these nutrients.  However, the
    main nutrients in meat are Iron and Protein, along with Fat and
    some minor amounts of Calcium etc.  These nutrients don't degrade.
    Iron is iron!  Calcium doesn't degrade - just think of what calcium
    pills are often made of - bones and shells!  These things are minerals
    and metals - they're FOREVER.  The protein - well, if it degraded
    your 12 lb turkey would weigh 6 oz after 6 months.  The majority
    of the turkey's weight is made of protein, fat, and water, and the
    weight does NOT go down after 6 months.
    
    I'd say just the opposite, George.  The nutrients will mainly be
    there, aside from some minor ones which might be water soluble.
    However, taste will degrade a bit after 6 months.  With a nice
    herby stuffing and some decent gravy, you won't notice any taste
    difference, though.
    
    --Louise

    I had my DEC turkey in the freezer for close to two years.  I cooked
    it a Reynolds' Bag.  Came out delicious.  No one would have guessed
    it was frozen that long.  However, when asked why I cooked it in
    a bag, I told them.
    
    Julie
    

    Better late than never.
    
    Last "Turkey day" I tried a friend's method.  Sounds strange but
    works GREAT!!!
    
    Cook your turkey "Upside Down".  That's right.  Breast down.  All
    the juice runs to the bottom, right?  I cooked a 22 lb bird.  About
    2 hours before the turkey was done, my hubbie and I donned rubber
    gloves, each grabbed an end of the turkey and flipped it over. 
    The last 2 hours of cooking allowed the breast to crisp up and turn
    that beautiful golden brown.  Get your timing right, though.  Don't
    turn your turkey too late or it will fall apart.
    
    For those skeptics, try cooking a chicken this way.  And yes, the
    bird was stuffed during this whole process and the stuffing was
    basted by the natural juices.
    
    I'll never cook a bird in the conventional "upright" position again.

     
    I do this with chickens too.  Turn after half the cooking time - makes
    white meat much moister.

    I'll have to try that this year.  Another thing I've done is cover
    the turkey with a piece of cheesecloth soaked in butter, and leave
    it on until the last 2 hours or so of cooking, then remove it. 
    This works pretty well, especially if you're a big fan of turkey
    skin.
    
    --Karen

    
    Re: .09
    
    The method you suggest sounds great however I'me a bit confused.  Do I
    start cooking the turkey breast up and then the last 2 hours breast 
    down, or the reverse?
    
    I'm cooking a chicken tonight and a turkey tomorrow, so an answer today
    would be a great help.
    
    Thanks in advance.
    
    Vince

re: .13

start the bird in a v-shaped rack, breast down, until approx. 2/3 done.
Finish cooking breast side up on the normal bird rack.  You do need
a rack for this - available in most cookware departments, adjustable
roasting rack - under 1$12.00.  It can be set to be flat or you can
set the rack sides into a V-shape.

    You do NOT need a rack to cook a turkey or chicken upside down.
    I have always let the bird cook in the drippings.  Then flip the bird
    during the last 1/3 of the total cooking time.  Save yourself $12.00.
    A rack is NOT needed.
    
    

         I prefer the rack method because I don't like the "soggy-sided"
    result of cooking in the drippings.
    
                                     Greg

    
    I tried the "upside-down" method over the weekend on a 10 lb. turkey. 
    It worked beautifully.  I cooked it for about 2 hours breast down and
    then about 1 hour breast up.  The white meat came out nice and juicy.
    
    Thanks for the tip.
    
    Vince

     
    I agree. In my opinion you don't need a rack.  I've never noticed a
    "soggy sided" effect.

    I was so pleased to read that so many of you cook your turkeys upside
    down!  My mother-in-law taught me this years ago, but most of my
    friends thought I was off my rocker.  I continued to cook very moist
    turkeys while they ate dry dry birds because they weren't willing to 
    give it a try.
    
    Chris
    

While we are on the subject of v-shaped racks, can anybody tell me 
what they are used for (besides turkeys).  I bought one by accident at
a final sale (cheap), thinking it was an adjustable flat rack.  There was
no description either so this is the first I've heard of it's application.

    re: 20
    
    i use it for beef roast and pork roasts as well as any fowl.
    
    robbin
    

My problem is this:

My holiday dinner will include prime rib and a turkey breast (noone likes
dark meat so I'm just getting the breast).  I need to keep the breast
moist, first problem, I need to know how many minutes/pound to roast this
breast, second problem.  All my books talk about the whole bird, not just
the breast.  Any and all suggestions are appreciated....by this coming
Friday, if possible (we are doing a dinner one week early as I'm off
to DU:IT right after the proper holiday and I want to eat light that weekend
so I won't blow up like a balloon on the plane ride).

    The first thing that came to my mind is cooking the breast on top of
    the stove submersed in water. I have heard of whole turkeys cooked
    that way to keep them moist, it sounds boring though. Did you think
    about roasting it in a roasting bag? That should help keep it moist.
    I have no idea how long to cook it.
    
    Linda
    

    How about the breast down method and using a meat thermometer (sp?)
    to check doneness.  Also, there may be roasting times on the packaging. 
    
    
    Happy Thanksgiving!!
    
    Flo

>    How about the breast down method and using a meat thermometer (sp?)
>    to check doneness.  Also, there may be roasting times on the packaging. 
    
    
Breast down won't work if there is nothing on the other side to add
moisture....I'm talking 8 pounds of fresh turkey breast ONLY here...that's
why I'm so confused...Maybe if I lay lots of stuffing in the cavity and
cover all with foil?  Oh well, I guess I'll have to wing this one.  I'll
post anything I find out after the holiday.

    Try putting the turkey breast in a roasting bag. It should stay moist
    in there.

    If you have a nice big microwave and a good-sized covered
    microwave-able dish (corningware works), try cooking the
    turkey in there.  I often roast whole chickens in the
    microwave, removing the skin and all visible fat first,
    and they stay nice and moist even without the skin and fat.
    A microwave cookbook should have the time-per-pound - check
    the library if your book doesn't list that.
    
    Birds cook better in the microwave if you turn them, both
    around and over.  I start mine wrong-side-up, cook 5-10
    minutes depending on size, then turn left-side-up, cook
    again, then turn right-side-up, cook, then finally turn
    right-side-up to finish cooking.
    
    Note that breast meat cooks faster than dark meat.  If all
    you can find is a time for whole birds, start checking the
    breast for doneness a good time before you'd check a whole
    bird of equal poundage.  You can check with a thermometer or
    by pricking the turkey breast with a fork and checking to
    see that the juice is clear, not pink.
    
    Don't put a whole lot of broth in the pan where you're
    cooking the turkey - it will make the turkey take longer.
    Also, don't put the turkey on anything like a wooden rack.
    I tried that, and the bottom did NOT cook.  Wood absorbs
    microwave energy.  Use only racks that come with microwave
    cookware.
    
    --Louise
    

I'm tempted to suggest steaming it (Chinese style), or failing that poaching it
as an earlier reply suggested.

If you roast it in a conventional oven try putting a small baking dish full of 
water in the oven:- we have a Tefal oven that offers "steam assisted baking", 
and this (a) yields moister meat than conventional orasting/baking, and 
(b) actually makes the cooking process faster (presumably because the steam 
transfers heat to the meat more efficiently than dry air convection and 
radiation alone.)

/. Ian .\

    	From the Manchester Union Leader Consumer's Corner.
    
    	Toll Free Butterball Turkey Talk Line 1-800-323-4848
    
    	Through Nov 22, weekdays, 9 am to 9 pm
    	Weekend 18-19, 9 am to 7 pm
    	Thanksgiving Day , Nov 23, 7 am to 7 pm
    	November 24 - December 22, weekdays 9: am to 7 pm
    
       "Forty-four specially-trained home economists and nutritionists
    	are available with answers to any and all turket prep questions."
    
                                                             

    Wow, I'm amazed by all this speculation!  I cook turkey breasts all the
    time.  There are only two of us so I usually only cook 1/2 at a time. 
    I simply plan on 20 minutes/pound and use a meat thermometer.  I've
    never had one come out dry, possibly because they aren't sitting in the
    oven anywhere near as long as when they are attached to the rest of the
    bird.
    
    However, if you are worried about it, my suggestions would be 1) drape
    a couple of slice of bacon over it or 2) use some herb butter under
    skin.
    
    BTW, I highly recommend turkey breast for everyday meals as well as
    holidays.  I do them on the grill in the summer and in the oven in the
    winter. 1/2 a breast makes a meal or two, plus sandwiches, plus soup
    for the 2 of us.  Easy and ecomonical.  If you can't find 1/2 a turkey
    breast, but you can find a whole one ask the people behind the meat
    counter to cut it in half for you.  They are usually willing to sell
    you only half, but I usually buy both pieces and freeze one.
    
    Good luck.
    
    Susan

    Just curious...
    
      WHAT IS DU:IT?
    

    
    RE:  2100.10
    
    I, too, have cooked Perdue turkey breast for non-occasions and
    found it easy to cook, keep moist, and enjoy as leftovers.
    
    The half breasts run about 6-7 lbs.  Perdue recommends that you
    cook for approximately 15 min. per lb.  They offer instruction about
    grilling in tin foil when you purchase the product.  I have not
    used that method.
    
    I brushed the skin side with olive oil, sprinkled with garlic powder,
    salt, pepper, rosemary, and a dash of thyme.  I cooked the last
    one I prepared on a bed of cooked brown rice at 350 deg. for
    1 hr. 15 min.  I let it stand for 15 min. before carving.  It
    was wonderful.
    
    Hope you enjoy your holiday.
    
    Carolyn
    

re: .10

	DU:IT is Digital Univ. Institute of Technology...7 days of
	seminars on a selected group of technical issues - in this
	case database/transaction processing (ACMS, etc)

re: the rest

I roasted the breast in a brown-in bag (I never think of these things
for some reason) breast bone side up with a little herbed butter under
the skin.  The breast was perfecto!  The prime rib was perfecto!  The
meal was a success for sure.  Thanks for all the input - some good
ideas here.

Next weekend, I'm defrosting the leftovers and watching lots of 
football.

    Hello,
    
    This is the big weekend....we are marinating a whole turkey.
    
    I had this same thing around five years ago at someone's house.  It
    was the best turkey ever, I thought she was NUTS for doing this...
    
    So here we are, nuts.  Any suggestions as to ingredients?  We have a
    large pot to do it in.  
    
    Thanks,
    
    Diane
    
    
    
    

    
    
     Rep .0
    
      I don't think your are nuts I do it alot but I de-bone the bird
    before marinating it. De-boning isn't that hard to do and makes it
    alot easier to cook and serve. To do it just turn the bird on its
    breast make one cut from front to back down the back and then just
    cut/scrape along the body cavity one side at a time. I remove the 
    thigh bone but leave the drum stick and wings alone. Use all the
    bones to make stock with btw and with some leftover turkey you 
    can make great soup. 
    
      My favorite marinade is lemon juice or white wine, dijon style
    mustard, olive oil, fresh garlic, thinly sliced onion or shallot,
    black pepper, and herbs de provence. I usually mix the wine or
    juice at about a 4 to 1 ratio with the oil. <ie 1C wine 1/4C oil>
    and mix the rest to taste.
    
      I usually cook my birds by running three or four skewers through
    it and then put it on my bbq grille. The skewers help turning it and
    helps keep the bird flat while cooking. It usually only takes about
    60-90 minutes to cook this way. I like to throw a few hand fulls of
    wood chips on the grille to give the bird alittle more flavor. 
    
        
	-mike
    

If you are going to marinate the bird, use a bag.  A single or double kitchen
trash bag (plastic, I mean) works very well.  With a lot less marinade, you can
cover the whole bird, and you won't have to turn it over every so often to get
the top half into the marinade.  

When it comes time to drain off the marinade, have someone hold the bagged bird
over a pan, and snip off the corner of the bag.  When it's all drained, open 
the bag in the sink and take out the bird.  

Also, for a variation on the previous (or any other marinade) recipe, use 
balsamic vinegar instead of the regular vinegar (or lemon or wine).

				-JP

    I wouldn't recommend using trash bags for food.  A lot of them are
    treated with insecticide and might be detrimental to your health.
    

    We did it, and it was GREAT!   The idea of using a bag was great, we
    got some roasting bags (my boyfriend always uses them anyway) and 
    marinated the turkey in there for about 16 hours (turning over in the
    bag occasionally).  We then transferred the bird into a new roasting
    bag, and cooked until done (unstuffed).
    
    The meat just about jumped off the bones and it was unbelievably moist.
    We invented our marinade on the spot, these were the basic ingredients:
    
    one bottle of dry white table wine (= approx. 3 1/8 cups)
    1 c. water
    1 1/4 c. vegetable oil
    two fistfuls of dried sage
    2 teaspoons celery seed
    approx. 8 cloves of garlic, sliced diagonally
    
     
    The turkey was standard Digital, about 13 pounds.
    
    The gravy was wonderful.   Soup next....
    
    I will never cook a turkey the "standard" way again, marinating was
    actually quite easy, we just put the bagged turkey and marinade into a 
    huge pot in the refrigerator.    I imagine any number of herb or spice
    variations would work, depending on personal taste.
    
    Thanks for all the advice.
                                                 

    I just cooked my DecTurkey, and came up with a stuffing that was
    really good - well, *I* liked it - and the ingredients were
    unusual since I didn't have the traditional ingredients on hand.
    Thought I'd share it.

    
    3 medium onions, diced
    1 small zucchini, chopped
    4-6 mushrooms, sliced up
    1/2 bag of cheeze-flavored croutons - probably 4 oz
    1/2 cup of grain - I used triticale flakes but any grain that
    	isn't ground fine or instant will do.  Steel cut oats are
    	fine.  Rice might work, but I haven't tried it.
    1/2 tsp sage
    1 tsp other herbs, any mix you like, potential suspects include
    	parsley, rosemary, thyme (reminds me of a song....) marjoram.
    1 tsp chicken bouillon granules
    a tablespoon of butter, melted
    1/4 cup of warm water
    
    Mix everything together.  The mix should be a little on the dry
    side - it should not stick together.  Stuff your turkey.  Cook
    as usual.
    
    The way I sew up my turkey, some moisture from basting can get inside
    to the stuffing.  I found that my stuffing was plenty moist without
    being too wet.  It was a nice change of pace from the mostly bread
    stuffings I often make - this one was mostly onion and grain.
    
    --Louise

                               BARBEQUED TURKEY
                               ----------------

            Now that summer is coming, here is my  recipe  for  smoked,
       barbequed  turkey  with  wild  rice  stuffing.   The  recipe has
       evolved over the years starting from a wild rice stuffing recipe
       from  Lund's  Supermarkets in Minneapolis.  Now that "wild" rice
       is commercially grown, it is  widely  available  and  relatively
       affordable.

            The stuffing recipe makes enough  for  a  22-pound  turkey.
       Since  DEC  turkeys  run  around 12-13 pounds, I bake the excess
       stuffing in a 350 degree oven in a covered  casserole  with  the
       turkey  neck  for  about  an  hour  and a half.  Served with the
       leftover turkey, this provides just about the  right  amount  of
       stuffing for the quantity of meat.

                                   Stuffing
                                   --------
       1 pound wild rice
       16 oz bulk sausage - Jimmie Rogers brand is good
       2 large onions, chopped
       16 oz fresh mushrooms, cut into thick slices
       1-1/2 teaspoons ground sage
       3/8 pound butter or margarine (1-1/2 sticks)
       large bunch of fresh parsley (flat leaf, Italian type is best),
         large stems removed and chopped

            Rinse the wild rice and simmer in 2-3 quarts of  water  for
       about  25 minutes until the rice is "al dente".  This about half
       the normal cooking time since the rice will  be  further  cooked
       during roasting.  Drain the rice and rinse with cold water.

            In a large pan, cook the  sausage  over  medium-high  heat,
       stirring  to  break  it  up  into  small  pieces,  until lightly
       browned.  Pour off all but two tablespoons of the  rendered  fat
       and  reduce  the heat to medium.  Add the onions and saute until
       they are wilted.  Add the mushrooms,  cover  and  cook  for  3-4
       minutes  until  the  mushrooms  have  lost  some water.  Add the
       butter and continue cooking until it has  melted.   Remove  from
       heat, add the sage and stir to mix well.

            Mix the cooked  wild  rice,  sausage  mixture  and  parsley
       together.  Refrigerate until ready for use.

                                   Barbeque
                                   --------

            The following is based on a standard  size  Weber  charcoal
       "kettle".  You may need to adapt it to other systems.

            Total cooking time will be about three hours  for  a  12-13
       pound  stuffed  turkey,  starting  at room temperature.  Cool or
       windy   weather   can,   obviously,   lengthen   cooking    time

                                                                   Page 2
                                                              25 May 1990


       considerably.

            Defrost the turkey, removing as much loose fat as  possible
       from  the cavity.  Reserve any giblets for your dog.  Stuff both
       the neck and abdominal cavities with  the  wild  rice  stuffing.
       The  cavities  should  be  full but jammed as the wild rice will
       swell as it absorbs liquids during cooking.  Bring the turkey to
       room  temperature  just  before  cooking or allow extra roasting
       time.

            Soak two to three cups of wood chips in water for  an  hour
       before  starting.   I use prunings from apple trees cut into 2-3
       inch sticks.  Commercial hickory chips or  grape  vine  prunings
       should work well, too.

            Using Weber's charcoal rails, start  the  charcoal  in  two
       piles  on either side of the grill.  Place an aluminum foil drip
       pan under the area where the turkey will go.

            When the charcoal is ready place the turkey back side  down
       on  the  grill  over  the drip pan.  Put a few wood chips on the
       coals and cover.  Unless the day is cold, you will probably want
       to  partially  close the vents to cool the fire a little.  Every
       fifteen minutes or so, put some additional chips on  the  coals.
       You  will  also  need  to  add  additional  charcoal  briquettes
       periodically to keep the fire sufficiently hot.

            Use a meat thermometer or the turkey's  "pop-up"  timer  to
       determine  doneness.   Remove from the grill at let rest at room
       temperature for 5-10 minutes before carving.

            Discard the drippings as  they  do  not  make  a  palatable
       gravy.

         I recently heard a comment on some TV show that you could baste a
    turkey with fruit juice for lower calories and added flavor, rather
    than butter or other high-calorie items.  Has anyone done this?  What
    type of fruit juice works best?  Any drawbacks?
    
                                          Greg

I've basted chicken with orange juice -- don't know why it wouldn't work with 
a turkey.

    We basted our Thanksgiving turkey with orange juice-cooked it
    in a roasting bag.  It came out great.
    	Linda

    Since I usually grate an apple into the stuffing, I've always
    basted with apple juice or sometimes a mixture of apple juice
    and some poultry stock (not the canned kind).
    	Conni

    Ever wonder what makes the pop-up timer work?  It turns out that it's
    designed to squeeze the little thingy out as the meat dries out and
    contracts.  Sort of like having an idiot light on your dashboard to
    tell you when the oil's all been cooked out of your engine.  
    
    Maybe it would be better to go by a meat thermometer.
    

    The turkey/chicken pop-up timers I've taken apart have some solder
    inside.  The meat gets to the right temperature, the solder melts,
    and a spring pushes the now-free plastic plunger up.
    
    But yes, it's better to go buy a meat thermometer.
    
    -Doug

	Hi,

	I bought a 4.75 pound boneless turkey breast, not looking at the
	label until I took it home.  Turns out that you are supposed to
	cook this thing in the bag without thawing it first.  They say	
	3-1/2 to 4 hours at 350 (I think).  While I don't have a problem
	cooking it in the bag, I have a problem with cooking it frozen.
	Has anybody ever made one of these before?  

	What if I thaw it?  How much would I have to adjust the cooking
	time by?  I know regular turkey takes about 20/min per pound 
	but this is boneless turkey and I would expect that the cooking
	time should differ.  Any suggestions (besides following the
	directions on the bag?)

	Karen
	

        Well, nobody answered my note on the -< Boneless turkey in a bag >-
        so I'll answer it myself.

	I followed the directions to cook the boneless turkey in the bag
	without thawing it and it came out just fine.  It makes its own
	gravy right in the bag and comes out nice and moise

	However, I would not buy this again primarily because I found 
	it to be extremely salty!

	Karen
	

    I've been looking for a good recipe fo a sweet/hot/spicy sauce
    for chicken or beef, i.e. mandarin fried beef. Also does anyone
    have a good recipe for sweet and sour sauce like is served in
    restaurants. Any help would be appreciated.
    
    Ted Gibson

I LOOKED THROUGH THE COOKING WITH WINE SECTION AND THE TURKEY SECTION,
AND DIDN'T SEE A RECIPE WITH TURKEY COOKED WITH WINE.
I HAD THE RECIPE A LONG TIME AGO A CO WORKER GAVE IT TO ME. 
I HAVE TRIED IT SINCE, BUT CANT SEEM TO GET THE WINE MEASUREMENTS 
RIGHT. 
USUALLY IT DOESNT COME OUT TASTING LIKE YOU PUT ANY WINE IN IT!
THE RECIPE I HAD CALLED FOR WHITE WINE. 
ANY IDEAS FOR A LARGE TURKEY OR WHAT OTHER KIND OF SPICES TO PUT
WITH WINE ON A TURKEY?

THANKS IN ADVANCE,

LJ

    Well after reading all 136 entries I just want to confirm what I read.
    
    My brother and his friends decided to raise turkeys this year, well 
    yesterday they slaughter then and the one he picked for us is 31lbs.!!
    
    Is it true it will take 20 minutes/lb with stuffing??  We will have to
    put the bird in at 2 AM!!!
    
    The bird just barely fits the oven as it is, should I cover it with
    aluminum foil?  Should we set the oven at 325 or 350.  Well as you can
    tell I'm overwhelmed at the size.  I think the biggest we've had was
    24lbs.
    
    Comments, suggested??  I'm only here today and tomorrow.
    
    Thanks!
    
    Regards,
    Karen
    
    

RE:                  <<< Note 36.137 by MTWASH::FLECCHIA >>>
   
    >>...and the one he picked for us is 31lbs.!!
    
       That's not a turkey.  That's a Pterodactyl.

                                     Greg

    Saturday night on the radio (NPR) included an interview with someone
    from the Butterball hot line.  (The number was not included, but a
    call to 800-555-1212 should get it for you, since it was an 800-
    number.)  She said 325�, and leave it uncovered until the breast is
    brown, then just cover the breast with foil.  Don't bother to baste.
    
    Thirty-one pounds, eh?  Prepare it before you go to bed, and shove
    it in the refrigerator.  Set your alarm for 2:00, turn on the oven,
    cram in the bird, and go back to sleep.  I don't think your failure
    to preheat the oven will make the slightest bit of difference.
    
    						Ann B.

re: .139

>   Thirty-one pounds, eh?  Prepare it before you go to bed, and shove
>   it in the refrigerator.  Set your alarm for 2:00, turn on the oven,
>    cram in the bird, and go back to sleep.

Everything I've heard and/or read says DO NOT STUFF THE BIRD until
just before you put it in the oven [I'll add that this is especially
true if there are eggs in the stuffing], due to potential salmonella and
other food poisoning potential!!  You could, however, go
ahead and make the stuffing the night before, keeping it in the 'fridge.

You could also consider making the stuffing on the stove top, and
shoving it into the oven for the 20-30 minutes that the turkey is
supposed to "rest" outside the oven before carving.  This reduces the
theoretical time to 15 minutes/lb.

btw, my experience with large (although not pterodactyl sized :-) turkeys
is that they really take abot 15 mins/lb to cook, even with stuffing -- so
watch it!  And definitely use a meat thermometer, unless you're very good
at eyeballing "doneness".

Good Luck!

Bobbi Fox

    I also heard an interview with the Butterball hotline.  It was on my
    way to work this am.  After listening to them talk about turkey for 15
    min. it will be hard to wait until Thursday to eat Turkey and
    stuffing!! 
    
    I too would set the alarm, have stuffing ready to put in the bird, put in 
    the oven and go back to bed! 
    
    Here's what she said.  DO NOT STUFF THE BIRD until you are ready to
    bake!  Then spread cooking oil over the bird and put on a rack in a
    shallow pan (2-3 inches) uncovered and let the turkey do the rest.  DO NOT
    keep opening to door to the oven this lengthens cooking time.  About an 
    hour before the turkey is done put foil over the breast area to keep it 
    from drying out.  Use the 20 min. per pound as a guide, Temp. should tell 
    you when it is done.  There is a 10 degree difference in dark and white 
    meat.  This is why you add the foil during the last hour to deflect the 
    heat.  Type of bird, your oven ect. makes time per pound a bad measure.
    
    31 pounds!!  I hope you have lots of ways to use up leftovers!
    
    Jenny

Yes, most definitely don't stuff the bird until you are ready to 
roast it, unless you're a salmonella fan.

--PSW

    Actually, I wouldn't transfer Turkey from fridge to oven. Depending on
    how long the turkey is in the fridge and how efficient your fridge is,
    the turkey will be pretty cold. It will take longer to cook, as the
    bird takes longer to heat up. A turkey kept in the meat tray of my
    fridge would be a couple of degrees above freezing, and if its near the
    back bits of the bird will have ice crystals in it.
    
    A piece of advise I always hear on cookery programmes is to cook meat
    when it is as near room temperature as possible. The meat stays more
    succulent and tender, and is quicker to cook. My experience tends to   
    support this advise.
    
    This is not to say you should leave the bird and stuffing lying around
    in +70 F temperatures for hours and hours and hours. But if you're
    going to put bird in oven at 2am, taking the bird out of the fridge at 
    10pm and leaving to warm up for 4 hours (especially at 31 lbs) should
    do it and you no harm.
    
    Angus

 -  Dept of Agr recommends not stuffing birds this large, the stuffing will
    not heat enough to kill bacteria

 -  15 minutes / pound is a better take at this weight, at 325 oven 

 -  not basting only applies if you have vegetable oil injected bird 
    (eg the Butterball TM from the referenced 800 number)
    *NON ARTIFICIALLY MANIPULATED BIRDS*, such as your presumably 
    non-processed turkey (..and my natural bird), must be basted


 I will be doing a 32 pounder, as every holiday.  I will wash the bird at
 5:30, toss  an apple or two plus an onion or two into the cavity, and
 put in oven at 325. [Depending on the calibration of the oven, which
 changes every time it is cleaned, the bird should be down around 2PM.]
 Dressing gets made on the side.  Drippings gets separated into 
 heavy/light fractions; the light goes onto bird as basting (to keep the
 natural turkey from drying out) with some heavy (to darken/brown on the
 bird and give it some dark color), some heavy fraction (dark) goes 
 over the dressing so it tastes like it was cooked in the bird.  
 At the end of the oven cooking, the rest of the drippings get 
 separated, the light/clear fat discarded, the heavy/dark gets diluted 
 and cooked into a gravy.

 Bruce

    
    
    	My husband got a fresh turkey yesterday from work.  It came
    	with cooking directions of only 10-12 minutes per pound and
    	you are supposed to tent this piece of paper they also included
    	over the turkey after you soak the paper in butter.  They
    	claim that you do not need to baste it.... just leave it
    	until done.  The paper is very thin and white, FWIW.
    
    	How does this work?  They say that their turkeys require half
    	the cooking time of other turkeys because they are "platform
    	raised".  Huh? This really makes me nervous but one of my
    	husbands co-workers said he cooked his last year as the
    	directions stated and it was the best turkey ever!
    
    	Anyone got any experience with this?
    
    	Karen

re: .145
    
>    	My husband got a fresh turkey yesterday from work.  It came
>    	with cooking directions of only 10-12 minutes per pound and
>    	you are supposed to tent this piece of paper they also included
>    	over the turkey after you soak the paper in butter.  They
>    	claim that you do not need to baste it.... just leave it
>    	until done.  The paper is very thin and white, FWIW.
>    
>    	How does this work?  They say that their turkeys require half
>    	the cooking time of other turkeys because they are "platform
>    	raised".  Huh? This really makes me nervous but one of my
>    	husbands co-workers said he cooked his last year as the
>    	directions stated and it was the best turkey ever!
    
Depending on the size of the turkey (and the oven temperature), 10-12
minutes per pound doesn't sound like that short of a time.  It *certainly*
doesn't sound like "half the normal time" if it's a large bird.  For
instance, my 1975-vintage Joy of Cooking says 13-15 minutes a pound for
a bird over 16 pounds.  A lot can depend on the age and fat content of the
bird.  I'd advise you to tentatively trust the directions, but check them
with a meat thermometer.

As for the paper tent soaked in butter:  I usually cook turkeys with butter
soaked cheesecloth over the top for half the time or so.  They come out
great.  On the other hand, my S.O. just throws them in the oven and doesn't
baste at all.  Hers come out great, too!

-Hal

    over the last few yers turkeys are cooking faster.  Butterball said it
    might have something to do with changes in bone density and meat to
    bone ratio over the years.  
    
    meg

How to cook a mutant turkey:

    
    I cooked the turkey 12 minutes per pound and it was too long!  The
    legs were dried out.  However the rest of it was cooked right. 
    
    I don't have a meat thermometer so I decided to cook it 12 minutes
    per pound.  I'm not sure how a meat thermometer would have worked
    out since the turkey was supposed to be covered with this paper tent
    for all but the last 1/2 hour of cooking.  How would you see a
    meat thermometer.
    
    I think the paper tent had something to do with it cooking faster.
    
    Karen
    

    I recall a relative of mine cooking turkey in a paper grocery bag!
    No need to baste, the skin was golden brown and the meat was juicy.
    
    The best turkey I ever had!!
    
    cooked at 325 for 12 minutes per pound.

    
    I shove a meat thermometer through bags.  
    
    meg

   I have to ask...
   
   What keeps the paper in the oven from getting smokey (and maybe
   setting off smoke detectors) before its over?  I would have expected
   that a paper bag, or any other paper for that matter, would start to
   get a little smokey at that temp for that long..
   
   curiously,
   
   - Tom

325-350 F is not hot enough to ignite paper.

    I think I'll play it safe (flamewise) and stick with criss-crossing
    bacon over the top of my turkeys.  Looks pritty and it is about the
    only time bacon is crisp enouogh for me to enjoy.  
    
    meg

various ideas  try chinese sweet and sour sauce	
2 cut small slit in upper part of breast and pour in 	
   honey.
3 last 1/2 hour or so use BBQ sauce.
4 our most popular at our house is cover skin with
  Italian salad dressing.  Tastes great and moist too.

The moral story is if you have a favorite sauce or salad
dressing  italian --catalina etc. get cretive use it 
  the best chef's do.   Good Luck & happy eating.