[Search for users] [Overall Top Noters] [List of all Conferences] [Download this site]

Conference turris::bridge

Title:The Game of Bridge
Moderator:COLLIS::JACKSON
Created:Thu Oct 30 1986
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1969
Total number of notes:14668

1960.0. "Why do I always end up on these committees ?" by GAAS::BRAUCHER (And nothing else matters) Mon Apr 28 1997 15:25

    
      At the recent Topsfield sectional, I got dragooned onto the
     3-man committee that heard two cases.  On one, a player holding
     KJx KJx AQ AKxxx opened 2NT.  His partner, with 9xxx Qxx J9xx Q10,
     intending to say 3C, said "Three Diamonds...uhhhh".  Opener said 3H,
     responder 3NT.  Opener, after some thought, passed 3NT.  When the
     dummy hit, the director was called and notified.  Their card said
     3C was Stayman and 3D a transfer to hearts.  3NT, making exactly 3,
     was average.  Director ruled the score stands.  Appeal to us.
    
      The other ruling also came after a 2NT opening, overcalled with 3D.
     The next player, with QJ10xx Jxxxx - xxx, bid 3S.  Thereupon fourth
     hand said, "whoops - I forgot to alert 3D".  Upon inquiry, he
     indicated that 3D showed "diamonds and a major".  The 3S bidder
     then changed his call to double.  As it happens, the 3S bid would
     have resulted in 4H, probably down 1, possibly down 2.  3D doubled
     made.  The opponent was incorrect - the 3D bid did NOT show diamonds
     and a major, but merely diamonds (8 of them, in fact !)  He was
     confused - they played 2D over 1NT showed diamonds and a major, but
     not 3D over 2NT.  Director let 3D doubled making stand.  Appeal to us.
    
      bb
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
1960.1I rarely get these rightESOSRV::BATORMon Apr 28 1997 16:2016
    1.  close call, but I'd let the 3NT stand.  the responder could
    have had reasons for the "uhhh", but bridge logic says the sequence
    shows hearts and asks opener to "pick a game". Not unreasonable
    to pick 3NT.
    
    
    2.  Any opponent (etc) is allowed is be "confused".  If explained
    correctly, no problem. If he chose to deviate this time, no problem.
    If he gets a lousy score, too bad. If his 3D is misinterpreted
    (by either side), too bad.  However, the other opponent gave the wrong
    explanation of their "agreement".  It is this which I think should
    cause the score to adjust to 4H down 1.  Full disclosure is required.
    Blindly following your agreements 100% is not required. Confusing
    your partner is allowed.
    
    
1960.2My 2 pBULMER::KABLESHKOVTue Apr 29 1997 12:483
    Echo .1: 
     1) Stands
     2) Adjust
1960.3that's what we did, but with trepidation...GAAS::BRAUCHERAnd nothing else mattersWed Apr 30 1997 10:0026
    
      Well, our committee ruled just as the two responses here suggest -
     we let 3NT stand on (1) and overturned (2).  I suppose that is
     predictable, and I would argue, is the closest our committee could
     get to restoring "equity".  But both rulings are probably "wrong"
     according to the letter of the law.
    
      On (1) passing 3NT is reasonable, but so is bidding 4H, and the
     rule is supposed to be that partner with unauthorized info must
     choose from among his reasonable alternatives the one NOT suggested
     by the irregularity.  Our committee knew that, but balked at
     awarding the other pair a cold top for doing nothing, or savagely
     punishing a pair for a minor gaff.  The "correct" ruling seemed
     to us to threaten the integrity of the contest.
    
      On (2), the weak hand with majors was misinformed, and the rule is
     supposed to be that he is protected for normal inferences, but not
     from eggregious subsequent errors.  Our committee felt the double
     of three diamonds was insane, but again we balked, this time at awarding
     a pair a top precisely BECAUSE they committed an irregularity.  Once
     again, we felt a duty to the other contestants to reverse it.
    
      I could say a ton more about this, but I won't.  Sometimes I think
     bridge law as hard as bridge itself.
    
      bb 
1960.4I guess this is why I am a director and don't serve on committeesPAMSRC::XHOST::MARCUSDmQ Escalation and Quality Assurance Manager (DTN 320-5003, 860-258-5003)Thu May 01 1997 13:0126
On the first hand, I would have two questions:

1) Why, after the "3D...huh" didn't the auction stop.  Was this "huh" said after LHO had already
called?  If not, why wasn't the 3D bidder simply allowed to change his/her call?  As of now, the
call can be changed, if it was inadvertent, without penalty and can be changed, otherwise, with
penalty, so long as LHO hasn't called.  After May 27, the call can be changed even after LHO
has called (which will make, I think, for some strange rullings).

2) If the auction stood as stated, how can passing 3NT be right?  Partner is showing a 5-card
heart suit and game-going values.  You have 3 good hearts (not Qxx or something like that) and
a doubleton diamond with possibly wasted value (AQ could be only 1 stopped/trick at NT).  Clearly
the inadvertent "huh" suggests that partner has not meant a heart transfer.  With that info,
passing 3NT does not strike me as a valid alternative.  I would adjust to 4H (whatever that does)
or A- if I can't figure out what happens to 4H.

So, bottom line, there is no way I can see this standing at 3NT once the 3D bidder wasn't allowed
to change their call.  But, since I think they should have been allowed to change their call 
(which would, presumably have led to a 3NT contract), letting it stand may be right (even if the
reasoning for getting there is something I disagree with).

On the second hand, the sanity of doubling depends upon what agreements you have over interference,
if any.  Clearly, if doubling is some kind of negative double, it is not insane.  If it is
penalty, I wouldn't get it.  However, even if I believe doubling is crazy, I would not allow the
offending side (who mis-explained their agreements) to keep 3DX making.  So, even if the defenders
kept their -470, the offenders should get A-.