Conference trucks::football;1

    >The winner gets to spend a lovely evening with Panesy discussing the
    >reasons why Man Utd are affectionately known as TGFTITW.
    
    What do you get for coming bottom... do they get to talk to you about
    ManU.....and why you think they are the TGFTITW??
    
    	Cheers,
    
    	Rick.

    Rick,
    
    Please do not refer to me in the same sentence as the words "coming"
    and "bottom".  Thank ewe.
    
    Dave
    

    I have to say that this Conference is falling into disrepute. First
    there is Mr O'Hagan and his rampant sexism and then there is the
    innuendo in the last entry about the sexual predilictions of Leeds (x3)
    fans. Tsk, tsk. All this is doing is re-affirming the view that football 
    fans suffer from excess alcohol and testosterone.
    
    Sgt Stratford
    Politically Correct Squad

    Well, I see everyone is queuing up for the opportunity to discuss
    TGFCITW with Panesey. 
    
    Dom 

    Stuart,
     
     You are only PC man today 'cos of the battering you got when you got
    home late Saturday, beered up after a stunning display at Elm Park !!! 
     
    
                     
      Stretch_who_carried_on_until_closing_you_LIGHTWEIGHT_!!!

    > Mrs Stratford has spoken !!!
    
    Who? No-one of that name resides at our house.
    
    > beered up after a stunning display at Elm Park !!!
      ^^^^^^^^^         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    One of these 2 statements is an outrageous falsehood. The other is
    completely accurate. You the panel must decide which is true.
    
    Stuart
    

				Seaman
	Neville		Pallister	Adams		Le Saux
	Platt		Redknapp	Gascoigne	Macmanaman
				Beardsley
				Shearer

	Subs:

	Walker
	Ferdinand
	Pearce
	Sheringham
	Stone
              

    
    

    I have deleted my entry on the grounds that I didn't know Quasi was in
    the squad. Has anyone got the full squad listing?

    Mr Stordfart (anag)
    
    How will I ever again be able to read a copy of Marxism Today, after
    your allegations?
    
    Mr O'Hagan.

    re -1
    
    Bazza,
    
    I suggest very quickly. You may pray to the God(dess) of PC and pray
    forgiveness for slipping into the path of evil. On the other hand,
    Praying for Forgiveness implies a Master and Servant relationship and
    in itself is non-PC...
    
    Stuart 
    (Ex-Sgt in Politically Correct Squad)

    According to Radio 5, this is the England line-up for Wednesday..
    
    Seaman
    Neville
    Pallister
    Adams
    Pearce
    Lee
    Redknapp
    Macmanaman
    Gascoigne
    Shearer
    Sheringham

    Isn't that the same fine attacking side that got nosebleeds and nausea
    when it crossed the halfway line in Oslo?

    
    	Was it somewhere in these notes that somebody mentioned the lack of
    coloured players in TV's teams ? Or am I imagining it altogether ?
    
    Rachael Discrimination.
    

    The team looks a little short on wide players to me - presumably Stone
    and/or Sinclair will be on the bench and hopefully Sir Les as well. But
    at least he's playing two strikers (well - Sheringham and a n other)
    
    paul

    Two strikers? Is this a dramatic change in tactics? "The Boy" Lineker
    seems to spend 50% of his time on tele going on about how much he
    agrees with TV's fundamental playing style of one lone striker.
    
    Gordon.

    Don't count on Sheringham playing up front with Shearer. El Tel
    Vegetableforabrain has been quoted in the past as believing that
    Sheringham can play in a similar role to Beardsley but be even better.
    Just goes to show how peoples judgement goes when they become England
    manager. 
    
    I guess the subs will be:
    
    	Pearce
    	Walker
    	Ferdinand
    	Platt
    	Beardsley
    
      	

    How many can he substitute during the game???
    
    Cheers,
    
    	Rick.

    Sherringham doesn't strike me as being sufficiently mobile to play
    behind a lone striker. It's the sort of role that, in the past, has
    been associated with players like Keegan, Dalglish and Beardsley. 
    
    No, I reckon that if Sherringham is named in the team, then he'll
    definitely play as a striker. Fair enough, too; the last few matches
    have been notable for the lack of goals, and I personally thought the
    Shearer-Sherringham partnership was one of the few successes during the
    summer tournament. Maybe they didn't score stacks of goals, but they
    certainly created plenty of chances, and other players (Platt,
    Anderton...hmm, both absent tomorrow;-)) did find the net. 
    
    Funny thing is, whenever England play with two strikers, the defence
    always seems to look wafer-thin;-)
    
    Dom 

    Dom,
    
    According to the reports, Sheringham *is* going to play in the
    supporting role. The problem is , as you say, he isn't good enough.
    Interesting quote from Venables saying that Ferdinand is playing well
    but so are Shearer and Sherringham and that Ferdinand will get his
    chance. Well, pardon me for venturing an opinion, but Shearer has not
    played well at International, or in Europe at Club level. How many more
    chances will he get? Between them, Sheringham is the only one to have
    scored in last year at International level. It has been ok whilst Platt
    was scoring consistently (and others were chipping in occassionally)
    but overall, and given some of the opposition, for Shearer not to have
    scored is unacceptable. 
    
    Venables is also showing signs of concern by asking the crowd to be
    patient. Er, that has never been a characteristic of crowds at England
    internationals so why be different with a team that doesn't look like
    scoring and will probably lose tonight.
    
    Stuart

    
    So, for us poor unfortunate ex-pats, is Venables out?
    Did England lose?
    
    Thanks,
    Ian

    Unfortunately England won 3-1... which means that I didn't win the 9
    quid sweep stake down the pub... though you would have thought by the
    cheer we let out when Switzerland scored that we were all Swiss
    fans....
    
    Though there was a bigger cheer when it became clear that Dave couldn't
    win......... <smiley things>
    
    Cheers,
    
    	Rick

Are any of you critics inclined to amend your assessments of
Sheringham's selection? There was a lot of negative comment in
this note stream, but I thought he looked worth his place 
(speaking as a Tott).

    It was a godd display by England, but like some of the commentators
    said, the Swiss contributed a lot to make England look good.
    
    My only complaint once again is the lack of Black players from T.V. team. 
    Shearer maybe an accomplished goal scorer at club level and I agree he
    is probably the best striker in England, But Wright has shown he is an
    accomplished goal scorer as well and I just wonder if Wright would have
    got such a long run without scoring if he was picked.
    
    Also, with England leading 3-1 last night surely it was time to give
    Ferdinand a chance.
    
    William

    re -2
    
    No, I won't alter my opinion of Sheringham. Although he was the best of
    a very poor forward line, Beardsley and Barmby are still better in that
    position than he is and given that Ferdinand is ever-so-slightly
    quicker and a better player, I know who I would pick.
    
    Speaking as an Arsenal fan, of course.
    
    

RE: Sheringham

I must admit I did agree with Sheringham's selection. But I was wrong. I 
thought he was one of Englands better players, and deserved his selection. 
He also scored a bloody good goal.

To me his selection depends on who England play. The Swiss made us look good
last night and with him playing the defense does not look as good. But then I'd
drop Pallister and Neville in the defense. I'd much rather see Rob Jones and
Steve Howey/Steve Bould.

Speaking as a fan of football that is......

    Who scored the other two goals then ?
    Surely not Alan "Mr Prolific" Shearer.
    
    Gary.
    

    >Steve Bould.  Speaking as a fan of football that is......
     
    Not by including him in the previous sentence....

    Scorers:
    
    Pearce
    Sheringham
    Stone

Is Mr. Bould not worthy of an England selection then ? When Adams/Bould have
both played for England I seem to remember them playing well together. Something
to do with playing at the same club. Mind you twas a while ago. Perhaps my
memory is failing me ( again )......

Speaking as a fan who likes to see England doing well.....

    Any chance of a report? That sad old rag, the "Gazetta dello Sport" (my
    main source of  info outside of this conference) attributed the first
    goal to a Swiss defender (and not to Pearce). 
                                                     
    I must say I never thought that Sherringham was international quality
    either, but, without justifying automatic inclusion, he seems to have
    done better in an England shirt than many players who I'd consider
    superior (Wright, Ferdinand). Maybe there is something in TV's
    selection policy after all, eh Stuart? ;-)  
    
    Dom                                                  
    

    Dom,
    
    I'm not quite sure how you would say Sheringham has done better than
    Wright or Ferdinand when (a) he is playing in a different position and
    (b) he hasn't scored as many as Wright.
    
    The game itself wasn't bad but not that good either. Neither side could
    defend to save their lives but in Englands case it was because the 2
    fullbacks were decidedly iffy which caused Pallister to play his usual
    nervy game. 
    
    There was a lot of space conceded by both sides. England suffered
    because none of the midfield were naturally defensive. This left the
    back four in trouble. Indeed, the swiss goal came when Gascoigne was
    hussled off the ball and there wasn't any covering midfield player to
    make a tackle.
    
    Shearer played better than he normally does for England and missed at
    least one sitter. Venables will (must?) play Ferdinand for the Portugal
    game one would hope. In fact, I would be surprised if there were less
    than 5 changes to the side last night (Le Saux, Jones, Platt, Beardsley
    and Ferdinand in, Neville, Pearce, Shearer, Sheringham and Lee out) for
    the next match.
    
    Stuart 

    >I'm not quite sure how you would say Sheringham has done better than
    >Wright or Ferdinand when (a) he is playing in a different position and
    >(b) he hasn't scored as many as Wright.
    
    Keep your hair on, Stuart! (You're beginning to sound like the
    Crystal Paranoid mob when an England squad's just been announced and
    there's no place for messrs. Martyn, Shaw et al;-))
    
    Point taken - although I rather doubt that he's played as many games as
    Wright. Don't get me wrong, I think Wright's one helluva player, but I
    don't think he ever produced his best for England. Probably wasn't
    helped by the fact that he blossomed so late on.
    
    But then it can't be easy to blossom at the San Selhurst, can it? ;-)
    
    Dom

    >I'm not quite sure how you would say Sheringham has done better than
    >Wright or Ferdinand when (a) he is playing in a different position and
    >(b) he hasn't scored as many as Wright.
    
    Your second point is rather an unfair comparison when you consider that
    the bulk of Wright's goals were against San Marino.  Take those out of
    the equation, and you may find the difference (if any) is less
    significant.  Sheringham does contribute more to the team than Wright,
    and does seem to link well with Shearer.  If Venables is to persist
    with Shearer, then Sheringham has proven to be a decent partner.
    
    I think Venables should now try the Ferdinand-Sheringham and/or 
    Ferdinand-Beardsley partnership in the next game.  Shearer has been
    given enough time to prove himself at the highest level, and in my
    opinion, has failed thus far.  Any other striker with the goalscoring
    record that Shearer has at international level, would have been out of 
    the team long ago.    

    Dave,
    
    >Your second point is rather an unfair comparison when you consider
    >that the bulk of Wright's goals were against San Marino. Take those 
    >out of the equation, and you may find the difference (if any) is less
    >significant.
    
    Isn't this the same argument that you have rejected in the past when
    appiled to Andy Cole and his seasons total when the Ipswich game is
    ignored. No. I didn't think it was.
    
    The problem with Sheringham is that he is too slow (physically and
    mentally) to be a complete success at international level. Whereas
    Beardsley/Barmby may not be able to beat Carl Lewis (unless he is
    wearing 4" stilettos) they both compensate this with speed of thought
    and reading the game well. Sheringham does not read the game well
    enough to compensate for a lack of speed.
    
    Stuart

    
>    Isn't this the same argument that you have rejected in the past when
>    appiled to Andy Cole and his seasons total when the Ipswich game is
>    ignored. No. I didn't think it was.
    
    It is indeed the same argument Stuart, however I have never used this
    in *comparing* Cole's strike-rate with a.n.other.  In any case, Ipswich
    were at that time Premier League opposition - why should you remove
    those goals from his overall stats ?  San Marino, with all due respect,
    probably couldn't get into the Endsleigh League.  
    
    BTW - have you got details of Wrighty's goals/appearances in
    internationals ?  
    

    Dave,
    
    Why should Ipswich  be treated any differently to San Marino. Both were
    in the same division/group as Man U/England and thus are comparable,
    irrespective of their capabilities.
    
    You wouldn't be altering facts to suit your own argument, would you?
    
    No, I don't have Wrights record. Maybe our resident statistician with a
    Rothmans can help? Rob?
    
    Stuart 	

    
    ...those England Goalscoring Records in full......(to June '95)
    
    			Full	Sub	Goals
    			Apps	Apps	
    
    I.E. Wright		 10	 10	  5
    E.P. Sheringham	  6	  3	  1
    A. Shearer		 17	  0	  5
    L. Ferdinand	  6	  1	  3
    
    Rothmans-Rob
    

    
    Urm well it looks like he's going. The KK for England Manager starts
    here although the FA will appoint either Ray Harford or Dave Bassett.
    
    Pj

    KK is officially out of the running, he wants to remain at Newcastle
    and hopes to win the league before the end of the decade.
    
    For the sake of continuity, Bryan Robson should be appointed, a young
    manager who has played competitively against/with the majority of the
    selectable players.  May take some time to settle but long term success
    should not be sacrificed for the purpose of short term gain.
    
    
    Nev

    Nev,
    
    >For the sake of continuity, Bryan Robson should be appointed
    
    Bit of a shallow reason for appointing a manager. Surely, the appointee
    should get the job on the basis of ability rather than he was the
    previous managers coach? Robson hasn't proven himself as a manager yet
    and although he probably will be successful in the future, should not
    be given the job as yet. 
    
    As for managers taking themselves out of the running, if the FA
    seriously approached Newcastle, I doubt that John Hall would stand in
    their way to interview Keegan. 
    
    Stuart

    Stuart,
       KK has just signed a TEN year contract. Now I know most contracts
    are not worth the paper they are written on, but he does seem genuinely
    keen to stay at St James in his role as the new messiah.
    
                     Stretch.

>      <<< Note 520.42 by CHEFS::STRATFORDS "Groovy, Laidback and Nasty" >>>

>    As for managers taking themselves out of the running, if the FA
>    seriously approached Newcastle, I doubt that John Hall would stand in
>    their way to interview Keegan. 
    
Stuart, I usually agree with almost everything you say . . . but not this 
time. Johh Hall is desperate to get into the Champions League. He wants to be 
at the top of European sport. At the moment he only has one chance, and that's 
with the current setup. Keegan has rebuilt the team he found at the bottom of 
the "First" division and taken them to the top of the Premier. It makes no 
sense to let him go now.

It also makes no sense from Keegan's point of view - he's got much more chance 
of winning something with Newcastle that he has with England! Come to think of 
it, maybe Bryan Robson would be a better idea, as it's obviously the other way 
round for him!

grahame

    
    	The radio this morning said that Bryan Robson had also excluded
    himself from the running and the new favourite is Gerry Francis.
    
    	But quite frankly I can't see why anybody would WANT this job
    because of the almost obligatory character assassination in the tabloid
    press following the first slightly dodgy result.
    
    Malc.
    

    Malc,
    
    Character assassination only takes place if the man in the job, (a)
    isn't good enough or (b) is a tit. Graham Taylor was wholly admirable
    in that he fulfilled both requirements. Venables has not been slated by
    the sports journalists (yet) and Francis is another 'media darling'. 
    
    The fact that they have both managed Tottenham and a substantial number
    of footie journalists are Tottenham fans is, I am sure, a wholly
    unrelated fact.
    
    Stuart

    Ian,
    
    I can't remember the exact words of your joke about Venables successor
    but it was very funny. Perhaps you'd be good enough to enter it here so
    that all the other punters can share in your wacky sense of humour.
    
    Stuart

    Stuart,
    
    	I'd really rather not thanks.
    
    
    	Ian$Shy

    Ian,
    
    I believe I remember it now.
    
    If Robson is appointed Englands new manager, will Jerome be appointed
    as his number 2?
    
    Yes, you were right. It really wasn't worth it.
    
    Stuart
    

    
    According to the radio Gerry Francis has also ruled himself out of 
    the England job...
    
    Neil.

    Blimey the 2000-1 for the fatboy to get the job does look such bad odds
    after all.

    
     Before anyone mentions it, I'm ruling myself out of the England Job.
     Too many other, er, commitments.
    
     Jeff
    

    
    I see the 5 man team looking at the next manager is sitting to discuss
    the next manager... I'll ask the question does the next manger need to
    be English or should we now look outside our game for the next England
    manager.
    
    Pj

     
    re. "..outside our game.."
    
    How about Ray Illingworth?
    
    P'raps not then.
    
    
    Jeff
    
    

    What about Geoff Boycott.... he's hard as nails.... :->
    
    	Cheers,
    
    	Rick.

    re .55
    
    Geoff Boycott - Why not? A Yorkshireman f***ed up the cricket, so why
    		    not have the same for the footie.

    Terry Venables has reiterated the fact that he will definitely 
    be leaving as England coach after the European Championships. An
    unlikely figure, media-friendly Boxing promoter Frank Warren, has
    pushed himself into the fray as next head honcho. After watching
    his current side Ajax play last night, I for one support his 
    nomination. Just how long he has been coaching the European Champions
    I cannot say, but he appears to be doing a fine job.
    
    Andy                                      

    
    Re 1 ????
    
    Sorry the job has Hoddle written all over it....
    
    Pj