Conference trucks::football;1

    

    	Romania 3-1 Sweden     Romania 2-1 Germany
  	Germany 2-0 Mexico
                                                    Romania 2-1 Italy
        Spain   0-1 Italy
    	Brazil  2-1 Holland    Italy 1-0 Brazil
    
    
    My guess.
    
    
    SCott

    

    	Romania 2-1 Sweden     Romania 0-1 Germany
  	Germany 1-0 Mexico
                                                    Brazil 2-0 Germany
        Spain   1-0 Italy
    	Brazil  2-1 Holland    Brazil  2-1  Spain 
    
    
    My guess.
    
    
    Andrew

After Mexico failed, Europe (7) and South Ammerica (1)


Spain   VS  Italy     1-2   Germany VS Italy 2-1   
Germany VS  Bulgaria  3-1  
                                                   Germany VS Rumania 3-2
Brazil  VS  Holland   2-1   Brazil  VS Rumania 2-3
Romania VS  Sweden    3-2  
    


My wish 

Tonny    

    I noticed on the wall-chart in a pizza take-away last
    night that the groupings I placed in .0 are wrong.
    
    In the semis, the winners of 
    	Spain/Italy face Germany/Mexico/Bulgaria.
    
    Jim.

    Jim,
    
    The right one see .3
    
    Tonny

It will be an exciting Quarter Finals !!
    
    The final match-ups:
    
    
    
        Romania - Sweden
            
        Brazil - Holland
               
        Germany - Bulgaria   
       
 	Spain - Italy 

And in half finals there will be Germany and Brazil, two other teams are not so
clear but I hope Romania beat Sweden and Spain beat Italy.
   
        
    
    

rep -1

I would'nt be so sure if I was you, all games still have to played and
neither the Germans nor the Brazilians have made real impression on me.

It could go any way so first let's wait until after the quarters to see
wich teams go trough.

T_

	  Here goes.... looking in the tea-leaves time...
    
Spain   v  Italy     0-2   Germany v Italy  2-3   
Germany v  Bulgaria  4-1  
                                                   Italy v Holland 1-3
Brazil  v  Holland   1-2   Holland v Sweden 2-1
Romania v  Sweden    1-2  
    
    

        Hi,
    
        Koos van Dam here (one of those blasted contractors):
        
    Note: RE:415.116 (second round conference)
        News in the US confirmed that Jack Charlton has donated the
        remainder of
        the 150,000 pounds (collected by the Irish back home to pay for his
        fine to FIFA) to the family of Escobar. Jacks comment was that this
        would be what the Irish would expect him to do. Great, absolutely
        great sportsmanship ! Coming from a Dutchman living in the US, you
        can take this seriously. Sad to see Jack and his boys go home; they
        pack a lot of pride.
    
    Here are the dates/times (US Eastern Standard Time) for
    the quarter finals:
    
        Sat.  9-JUL    12:00  -  Spain - Italy
        Sat.  9-JUL    15:30  -  Brazil - Netherlands
        Sun. 10-JUL    11:55  -  Germany - Bulgaria
        Sun. 10-JUL    15:30  -  Romania - Sweden
    
        These are the times given by US TV and usually this means the game
        actually starts about 5 to 10 minutes later.
    
        Koos

    The Brazilian player Leonardo has been banned for 4 games for his
    ASSAULT on Ramos of the USA. I think that he has gotten off lightly.
    FIFA had a chance to show all football associations that the use of the
    elbow on a football pitch would not be tolerated by banning this guy
    for quite a while. This ban means that he will miss the rest of the
    world cup plus one more game afterwards. Germany sent Effenberg home
    for gesturing to the crowd, I wonder have Brazil sent this guy home.
    Unfortunately, the Brazilians have gone down in my estimation after the
    USA game. Their constant moaning to the ref left a sour after-taste....
    
    Ray....

    
    I wasn't going to bother entering this debate but I can't beleive
    people are still painting Brasil as the sole bad guys. Did nobody see
    Lalas,Balboa and especially claviejo (sp?) early in the first half wave
    their hands in a pathetic yellow card gesture every time a brazilian
    did something? Not only that, in virtually every game of the tournament
    some guy from every team has tried the same sad act.
    
    I think the root cause is the over zealous referring leading to players
    who have been booked for something trivial looking for similar bookings
    everytime an opponent does something equally trivial.
    
    Andy.

    Well, I guess It all comes down to   USING THE CAMARAS.
    
    Let the refs call the game. Lets the players play the game. Let the
    camaras roll. How? you might ask?
    
    Right after the game have 3 judges review the game on tape. For every
    foul that the ref calls and the player fouled reacts as waving his hand
    as to "showing of the card" will have a -1 point. If the call is
    correct it will be a +1 point. If the call is incorrect it will be a
    -1 point FOR THE REF. At the end add all the points with any goals
    and the results be known:
    
    If team A wins game with score of 3 goals to 1, but his team has a +/-
    of +5 (-7 for hand waving or dive... +2 for correct calls..= +5)
    5+3 goals =8 points.
    
    Team B looses game with score of 1 to 3, his team has a +/- of +8
    (-4 for hand waving or diving... +12 for correct calls.. = +8)
    8+1 goal = 9 points... thus team B winning the match! (;.|)))))))))
    
    Nick

    Ho! yea!.... by the way.... if the REF has a - 3 points
    
    
    Hang him in the next game at half time... for everyone to see!
    
    (:^00000))))))))   
    Nick

    ...and a bye to the quarter finals for teams whose standard deviation
    from the mean does not exceed +/- 2.5% ?
    
    I can see FIFA allowing timeouts so that teams can consult their
    statistician!
    
    Dom

    
    Hi guys ,
    
    
    Does anyone know if the bulgarian player that was unfairly sent-off
    against Mexico , was punished ?
    And the italian one ( Zolla , i think ) ?
    Both were victims of bad decisions , i think they should not be
    punished.
    
    Cheers,
    Luis.

    
    
    re .11
    
     I don't beleive it, I find myself agreeing with everything you have
    said. Imagine agreeing with a Killie fan, I better see my doctor.
    Every team in every game that I have watched have tried to influence 
    the referee into booking players, the Brazilians were at it against
    the Yanks but they're hardly the first to do so.
    
     re .last
    
     Don't know if the Bulgarian has been disciplined by FIFA but Zola was
    banned for 2 matches and fined 2,500 pounds sterling for his offence.
    
     re .Leonardo
    
     He seemed genuinely upset about the incident that put Ramos in
    hospital. His intention at the time was to get free of the
    shirt-pulling and "when I swung my arm has was already falling and
    if he hadn't i don't think my elbow would have hit him". Leornado
    visited Ramos in hospital and "he not only accepted my apology, he
    wished me luck in my career"
    
     Danny.

    re:416.15
    
    Luis, 
    
    I posted 417.10 this morning but I wasn't exactly sure of the facts, as
    nobody has corrected it I can only assume its right.
    
    cheers,
    
    Andy

    The first quarter-final match : Italy vs Spain ( It seems to be a match
    between AC Milan and Bacelona to me ! )
    
    Anyone has the data of the previous results between them ?
    
    
      

    
    Here's what's the main sprts topic in the Dutch papers today: "Who's
    gonna stop Romario"
    
    My best guess: Stan Valcx, who appears to be a personal friend/drinking
    buddy of the Brazilian star player. These two together are notorious
    "night lifers" in Holland and Rio de Janeiro.......
    
    Some statistics: Romario never scored against the combination national goalie De
    Goey (Feyenoord Rotterdam)/injured defender John de Wolf in all 3 years
    he was playing in the Dutch league for PSV. Too bad de Wolf is not
    playing tomorrow. Anyway, I give Valcx a fair chance of stopping
    Romario as well. If Holland shows some brilliant moments (Bergkamp,
    Jonk etc) we can beat Brazil and have an all Europe semi finals.
    My nerves are already gearing up and it's only Friday morning.....
    
    Gerrit
    

    It appears that Italy will be making at least one change for the match
    against Spain on Saturday. Conte (Juventus) will probably replace
    Signori (Lazio). That's a midfield player for an attacker, but Roberto
    Baggio may be moved up front to partner Massaro. 
    
    The other possible change is Tassotti for Mussi at full back. Mussi has
    only played one game (v. Nigeria) so far, but is suffering from severe
    fatigue (he went down with cramp at least three times).
    
    Spain look likely to bring back Julio Salinas in attack.
    
    Dom

AP report

World Cup Average Attendances

Average attendance for first- and second-round games in the World Cup
(average includes media seats released for sale and not included in
capacity):

City Avg Att Capacaity

Boston 53,953 53,644

Chicago 62,545 63,117

Dallas 57,730 63,998

Detroit 70,900 77,557

Los Angeles 90,669 91,794

New York 73,841 75,338

Orlando 61,266 61,219

San Francisco 80,841 80,906

Washington 52,830 53,142

Any news on Maldini and Dino Baggio,I believe they are both carrying injuries.

If Italy go past Spain,whats the possibillity of Baresi coming back for the
semi's,he looked fairly agile on the touchline during the Nigeria game.

I'm glad to see Massaro is getting another chance he gives 100% and puts
Casiraghi to shame.
Finally will Berti get picked,I think he's been a complete waste of space so far
I would think Conte would come in for him,they could leave Signori in which 
would create some more width when attacking.

Still,who knows how Sacchi's mind works,whatever he does will not make much sense,
is it possible he's been taking coaching lessons from the great G****m T****r.

Steve.

AP Report

Third Suspect in Slaying of Soccer Play Turns Self In

BOGOTA, Colombia (AP) - A third suspect in the murder of Andres Escobar
turned himself in, police said Wednesday. But in another blow to Colombia's
soccer establishment, the head of a major team resigned to protest the
killing.

"I can't accept soccer as a stage for violence and uncontrolled passions
instead of pleasure and exercise," Pedro Chang, general manager of the
America club of Cali, said in his resignation letter Tuesday.

The America club has won the national soccer championship more than a
half-dozen times.

Chang's resignation wasn't the first to hit Colombian soccer because of the
murder.

Hernan Dario Gomez, the new coach of the Colombia's national team, said over
the weekend that he no longer wants the job because of Escobar's death.

Police said Pedro Gallon Henao, brother of another suspect in the murder,
surrendered Tuesday in Medellin, Colombia's third-largest city.

Escobar was shot to death in a Medellin parking lot for accidentally scoring
an own-goal in Colombia's humiliating 2-1 loss to the United States. The
third suspect was present during the slaying, police said, without giving
further details.

One suspect, Humberto Munoz, admitted to shooting Escobar, police said. Munoz
was the driver for a second suspect, rancher Santiago Gallon Henao, who
authorities said bet heavily on the Colombian team and was upset at having
lost. Colombia had been an early favorite to win the cup.

Police were investigating whether the Gallon brothers are involved in drug
trafficking. A third Gallon brother has been implicated in the laundering of
drug money.

AP Report

Brazil's Leonardo Suspended Four Games for Injuring U.S. Player

DALLAS (AP) - Brazilian defender Leonardo was suspended Wednesday for four
games for throwing an elbow that sent American midfielder Tab Ramos to the
hospital with a fractured skull.

It was the longest suspension in recent memory imposed at a World Cup and
means Brazil will be without one of its starting players for the rest of the
tournament, even if it reaches the July 17 final.

The disciplinary committee of FIFA said Leonardo was suspended "for violence
against another player" and fined 10,000 Swiss francs, or about dlrs 8,000.

"In terms of recent World Cups, it is the longest suspension," FIFA spokesman
Andreas Herren said. "The committee felt the violent behavior of the player
deserved this kind of punishment."

Because of the length of the suspension, which will roll over to
international games if Brazil doesn't reach the finals, it can be appealed.

Brazil next plays in the quarterfinals against the Netherlands on Saturday.

The United States was eliminated by Brazil 1-0 in the second-round game
Monday.

FIFA is getting tough on violence this tournament, routinely imposing
two-game suspensions for a red card, twice what is usual. It went beyond that
early in the tournament with a three-game suspension against Ion Vladoiu of
Romania for a blatant hit on a Swiss player, and FIFA said at that time it
was the longest suspension at any recent World Cup.

Now comes Leonardo, who threw his right elbow into the left side of Ramos'
head as he two tangled for a ball near the sidelines in the first half of
Monday's match.

Leonardo later apologized and said he did not intentionally hurt Ramos, who
was knocked unconscious and hospitalized briefly and is expected to be
sidelined for up to six months. Leonardo visited Ramos in the hospital.

The loss of Ramos was a crucial blow to U.S. hopes. Already playing without
suspended forward John Harkes, the Americans could not generate any offense
in the second half without Ramos, their best playmaker.

If Brazil fails to advance past the Netherlands, Leonardo's suspension would
be completed in a corresponding number of matches in the next South American
tournament staged by CONMEBOL, FIFA said.

The suspension of Leonardo was only one of a series of penalties imposed by
the disciplinary committee.

It suspended two players expelled from second-round matches Tuesday - Italy's
Gianfranco Zola for two matches and Bulgaria's Emil Kremenliev for one match.
Kremenliev's penalty was less severe because his red card was a combination
of two yellows in the same match, not a blatant foul.

Also suspended for one match in the next CONCACAF tournament were Fernando
Clavijo of the United States and Luis Garcia of Mexico, for accumulated
yellow cards. Both Mexico and the United States have been eliminated from the
World Cup.

Zola was fined 5,000 Swiss francs (dlrs 4,000), while Kremenliev, Garcia and
Clavijo were fined 3,000 apiece (dlrs 2,400).

In addition, the committee fined the Argentine delegation 10,000 Swiss francs
(dlrs 8,000) for "unsporting conduct" on the bench during a 3-2 loss to
Romania in the second round, and fined the team's trainer another 5,000 Swiss
francs (dlrs 4,000) for violating advertising restriction.

The German Football Federation was fined 15,000 Swiss francs (dlrs 12,000)
for violating limits on ads.

Reuter Report

ALBANIAN LOSES WIFE IN WORLD CUP BET

TIRANA, July 5 (Reuter) - An Albanian short of cash for gambling lost his
wife after betting her on the outcome of a World Cup soccer match, the daily
newspaper Koha Jone (Our Time) said on Tuesday.

The unidentified gambler was so sure that Argentina would beat Bulgaria that
he staked his spouse, who disappeared with the winner when Bulgaria won 3-2.
The loser complained to police.

AP Report

Hungarian to Referee Italy-Spain

DALLAS (AP) - Two referees from Europe and two from Latin America were chosen
Wednesday to call this weekend's World Cup quarterfinal matches.

Sandor Puhl of Hungary will handle the Italy-Spain match at Foxboro, Mass.,
while Rodrigo Badilla of Costa Rica takes the Netherlands-Brazil match at
Dallas. Both games are Saturday.

On Sunday, Colombia's Jose Torres referees the Bulgaria-Germany match at the
Meadowlands in East Rutherford, N.J., while England's Philip Don calls the
Romania-Sweden game in Stanford, Calif.

AP Report

World Cup Suspended List

DALLAS (AP) - Players who will be suspended by FIFA for the World Cup
quarterfinal-round matches Saturday and Sunday: Saturday, July 9

At Foxboro, Mass.

Italy (Gianfranco Zola) vs. Spain (none)

At Dallas

Netherlands (none) vs. Brazil (Leonardo)

Sunday, July 10

At East Rutherford, N.J.

Bulgaria (Emil Kremenliev) vs. Germany (none)

At Stanford, Calif.

Sweden (none) vs. Romania (Ion Vladoiu)

AP Report

Will Americans Still Watch Without American Team?

Now that the United States is out of the World Cup, will American sports fans
still pay attention?

"I think people will stay interested," U.S. defender Alexi Lalas said.
"People have discovered that it's a monthlong party, and the party's still
going on."

While the ABC television network estimated that 32 million people tuned in
for the Americans' 1-0 loss to Brazil on Monday (about 8.5 million homes,
depending on the final rating due out Friday), ratings for games not
involving the United States have been substantially lower.

ABC hasn't gotten higher than a 4.0 (3.77 million homes) for its four games
not involving the Americans. The top rating for ESPN, the cable channel
carrying most of the games, for a match not involving the U.S. team was 2.9
for Ireland's 1-0 victory over Italy (1.83 million homes).

"Hopefully, we convinced people this is an attractive game, one worth
watching," U.S. goalkeeper Tony Meola said. "I hope that because we are out,
the excitement doesn't end here in the United States."

During the first two rounds, a record 2,952,023 fans attended 44 games, an
average of 67,091. The previous record of 2,517,348 (an average of 48,411)
was set four years ago in Italy. The average for this year is sure to break
the record of 60,772, set in Brazil in 1950.

"I think Americans want to see some more soccer now," U.S. midfielder John
Harkes said. "Just like America is a melting pot, fans from different
nations, different backgrounds are getting together now and enjoying the
sport."

FIFA general secretary Joseph Blatter said the organization believes American
fans will pay attention for the final 10 days. Three of the quarterfinals
this weekend will be televised by ABC, which also will broadcast the final on
July 17. ESPN will televise Sunday's game between Germany and Bulgaria, both
semifinals next Wednesday and the third-place game on July 16.

"The very good effort of the U.S. against Brazil and the good games we've had
so far in the tournament on the field will keep the viewers interested,"
Blatter said.

Alan Rothenberg, the head of the American organizers, said before the
tournament that ABC expected a rating of between 4.0 and 4.5 for its 11
telecasts. Its average probably will be about 5.0 for seven games telecast in
the first two rounds, so the remaining games will determine whether the
network exceeds its projections or merely meets them.

"I believe a lot of people have seen that soccer is an exciting game," U.S.
defender Marcelo Balboa said. "I think this has been the best World Cup ever
and there is a lot of exciting soccer left to be played."

    
    Quarter final results so far:-
    
    Spain........1   Italy..........2
    
    Brazil.......3   Holland........2
    

    
    Quarter final results so far:-
    
    Spain........1   Italy..........2
    
    Brazil.......3   Holland........2
    
    Germany......1   Bulgaria.......2
    
        

         
    
    Results so far:-
    
    Spain........1   Italy..........2
    
    Brazil.......3   Holland........2
    
    Germany......1   Bulgaria.......2
    
    Bulgaria.....1   Sweden.........1  2-2 after extra time.Sweden won on
                                       penalties.   
                                      

    semi-finalist:
    
    Brazil vs Sweden
    
    Italy  vs Bulgaria
    
    !!!
    

    
    what happened to Romania then did they no want to play so sent Bulgaria
    instead.

    Sweden and Romania both played very well in the quarter-final match.
    
    They got 2 : 2 after 120 minutes play, and Sweden won 5:4 in
    penalities.
    
    
     

    Brasil - Netherlands	3-2
    
    First half very tactical, two teams just waiting for the other. Brasil
    put some more effort in it but had no real goalchances. The dutch were
    very ( unlike they are) defensive and couldn't hardly get to their
    forwards. Refereeing was inconsistent for both sides. Nasty fouls
    could go on....the sneeky one from the Brasilians, the open one from
    the dutch......( mostly irritation of a not seen foul).
    In the second half both teams began to play more openly. You could see
    that the dutch were still hesitating were the Brasilians came more in
    their game. The first 20 minutes the brasilians had the best of the
    game. Unfortunately they needed the hand of referee and linesmen to
    score ; both goals were off-side ( the referee actually admitted it
    after the game....). But the goals were stimulation for the dutch who
    finally began their play ; beautifull goals from Bergkamp and Winter
    (the best dutch player !) equalized. It was just to wait for the third
    dutch goal. Then Branco first knocked away Overmars before he was
    fouled himself. Strangely he got the free-kick but oh, what a perfect
    shot he made out of that ! Looking overall deserved for the Brasilians,
    but what a shame that they needed the referee's help for that......
    The dutch should have trusted their own strength and not so frightened
    as they did now. I think we saw the World Champion today......
    
    John 

    
    	So, as I've been saying all along, the Germans have slipped up and
    my team Bulgria look a good bet for the final! 8-)
    
    JBG

    re Brasil 3-2 Holland....
    
    Unfortunately the major talking point to come out of these games is the
    incompetence of the match officials. This new offside rule will cause a
    riot one of these days....well done Brasil and hard luck to Holland,
    you went out fighting, (Koeman will have to go)....

    
    ....Ok, I was only joking. Still its nice to see some new teams getting
    to the semis. Comiserations for Germany, Holland, Rumania & Spain. I
    saw the Brazil & Sweden games, both entertaining and only balance I
    think the two winners deserved it. 3 great goals from Brazil and an
    excellent free-kick from Sweden. There are now only two unbeaten sides
    remaining - Brazil & Sweden!!!! When they played in the first round
    they drew 1 : 1 so this semifinal is going to be a cracker.
    
    	Italy ought to be a good bet but Bulgaria are on a great roll now.
    Of course, Brazil & Italy have the advantage of an extra day to recover
    before Wednesday's semis and Sweden went all the way (as to be expected
    I suppose!) with Rumania. Lots more crap refereeing - why oh why won't
    they allow TV replays?
    
    JBG

    
    Yep, it's real sad about Germany being knocked out. Real sad. Also,
    isn't it a shame we won't see any more of that excellent striker,
    Klinnsman. Tch.
    
    Tony
    
    

    
    Do I detect the teeniest hint of sarcasm, Tony?? Tch tch, shame on you.
    Personally I think the World Cup took a sharp donwards turn when dear
    old Maradonna was sent home. Now that Koeman is gone too, its just too
    much to bear...
    
    JBG

    Great results this weekend. As Jon said, it's good to see new faces in
    the Semis.  I have to admit though, that I felt a certain amount of
    sympathy for the Romanians last night. That's two WC's in a row, in
    which they have gone out on penalties. Mind you, you'ld think that
    after the last time, they would have gotten down to some serious
    practising for shoot-outs !  My only regret with the semis line-up is
    that Brazil and Sweden have to face each other.  If Brazil lose then
    there go my chances in the Pub sweepstake. If Sweden lose, I'll have
    some pretty depressed Swedish friends to deal with for a while.
    
    Can anyone post the current position for the Golden Boot ?  Thanks !
    
    
    Jerry.
          

    
    Re .41
    
>>    If Sweden lose, I'll have some pretty (BUT) depressed Swedish friends
>>    to deal with for a while.
    
    	Come on Jerry, I'm sure you'll find some way of cheering them up!
    
    JBG

Salenko         Russia      6 

Klinsmann       Germany     5
Stoichkov       Bulgaria    5

Andersson       Sweden      4 
Batistuta       Argentina   4 
Bergkamp        Holland     4 
Dahlin          Sweden      4  
Radocioiu       Romania     4  
Romario         Brazil      4 

Baggio          Italy       3 
Bebeto          Brazil      3 
Caminero        Spain       3 
Hagi            Romania     3 

I think..

Mike

    
    According to French TV, Radiocioiu's total is now 6. 
    
    Stoichkov, Dahlin and Romario favourites to improve their scores.
    
	Radiocioiu      Romania     4  
    	Salenko         Russia      6 

	Klinsmann       Germany     5
	Stoichkov       Bulgaria    5

	Andersson       Sweden      4 
	Batistuta       Argentina   4 
	Bergkamp        Holland     4 
	Dahlin          Sweden      4  
	Romario         Brazil      4 

	Baggio          Italy       3 
	Bebeto          Brazil      3 
	Caminero        Spain       3 
	Hagi            Romania     3 
.

      Some Absolut Vodka (preferrably Absolut Kurant) is good for celebration, 
      depression and you name it.
      
      It at least saved me from a heart attack last night.
      
      Sk�l,
      
      Christer

    Re: .45 
    
    Christer,
    
>   Some Absolut Vodka (preferrably Absolut Kurant) is good for celebration, 
>   depression and you name it.
    
    It's also very good for Hangovers !!!  I found this out recently when I
    went to a party where six Swedish girls sat around sipping shots of
    Vodka and singing Swedish songs, while an American friend and I sat 
    around listening to them sing (or trying to sing !) and knocking back 
    shots of Vodka. The next day I understood why the girls were just 
    sipping !!!
    
    Good luck on Wednesday !
    
    Jerry. 
    

    A couple of remarks....
    
    Let me disagree with the fact that the Brazilians needed the ref to go
    through... I did not see Romario off-side on the first goal... he is
    slightly behind Bebeto when the cross comes in... On the second goal
    there is no doubt that he is off-side but it was also clear at the 
    beginning of this tournament that such a play would not be called
    off-side.
     Alexi Lalas was interviewed at half-time and told everyone that this
    was exactly the type of situation used  to explain how the new 
    interpretation of the rule would come into play (i.e. a player coming 
    back from an off-sideposition); it looks to me that Romario made it clear
    that he was not involved in the play. It seems also that some of the 
    dutch defenders made it clear that they did not want to be involved ;-)...
    Its is unfortunate for the dutch that this happened at such a critical
    time in the tournament... Why does FIFA let people play four years with
    one set of rules and changes them for the last couple of games ????
    
    A bigger factor IMHO was the fact that in the second half Romario
    decided to play facing the dutch goal...instead of with his back to
    it....
    
    One last comment: for my friends back in France... how's the mood now
    that both teams qualifying out of France's group are in the
    semi-finals? Not that it means that Cantona and co. would have done
    much better but it probably adds to the bitterness which resulted from
     our "glorious encounters" with Israel and Stoichkov and his merry 
    friends back in April....
    
    Jacques             

    Jacques - Good question! The TV commentators said that they felt better
    that the teams which beat us in the qualifying games are now in the
    semis. Just shows how good they are! So, no regrets! Nobody mentioned
    that we could have done the same. The overall feeling is that we just
    did not deserve to qualify, and I agree 100%.
    
    Regards
    �JF?

    
    re the "offsides"
    
     I think the ref was correct to allow the 2nd goal, Romario was running
    back towards his own goal and therefore not interfering with play as
    Bebeto carried on and scored on his own. The 1st goal was a bit more
    dubious. Romario was in an offside position when the ball was played
    through to Bebeto. He then ran on and played the ball onto Romario
    who had rejoined the attack to score. Some would say he gained an
    advantage from being "offside" in the first place.
    
     The best decision, and correct, of the World Cup was Voellor's goal
    being disallowed. A lot of referee's would have allowed it to stand
    but it was rightly chopped off. After Klinsmann's dying swan routine
    justice was seen to be done.
    
     Danny.

    re 2nd Brasilian goal ;
    Clear case of off-side ; the moment the ball is played is essential.
    The ball went into the direction of Romario. In that case, it doesn't
    matter if he walks back ! On the moment of playing he stood five (!)
    meters offside !
    But I do agree that it is strange that these rules are introduced at a
    Worldcup ; for example the new strange ball was also tested long before
    it was introduced. 
    You can see what impact these new rules have on the referees and the
    games. It's ridiculous to change things on such an important event !
    Not to mention all these referees from countries where football is just
    existing..........
    
    John

    MHO,
    
    Jurgen Klunsmann is as bad at playing theatre as I at playing football!
    The guy trips over his eager to get a penalty.
    You, who wrote that you only passed your tv-set to see Klunsmann play
    his act, could you please be seated when Klunsmann is on the field!
    I think he should have been booked for diving so obviously.
    
    Hermann
    

    re .51 "Trying new things..."

    Long before the world cup, the rule was that one could be in an offsides 
    position and not be called for offsides...

    I remember three years ago when I was studying for my ref exam, I asked
    the instructor why this was true.  I felt, for example, that if a
    forward was coming down ahead of the ball (i.e. in an offsides
    position), it would be unfair for the goalie who would be defending
    against the attacker, yet be distracted or at least worried about a
    future cross to the forward ahead of the ball.  The instructor said
    that it was too bad, and that the goalie should not pay any attention
    to people who are offsides!

    Also, in order for the rule to "work" the person in the offsides
    position can not be trying to interfere with play.  So the only question
    is was the player interfering with play as he came back.  I think he
    was not interfering (e.g. setting a pick, or pretending to go after the
    ball), therefore the goal should stand.  

    			  Just MHO,  :-)  

    It's obvoiusly going to be a judgement call about 'interfering'.
    There's been a lot of talk about the law being changed but this
    point about interference has always been the law.  I think in the 
    UK and from what I've seen in others countries in Europe, linesmen 
    are apt to raise their flags regardless of whether a player is 
    intefering.  What has happened in this World Cup is that the 
    interference has been more carefully watched and players are less 
    likely to be called unless they actually play the ball.

    In this instance although the player was coming back and by his 
    actions indicating that he was not taking part in the play, he, 
    whether on purpose or not, did impede one of the defenders. To my 
    mind he then qualified as interfering with play, but as always, a 
    judgement call.  One that a ref at this level of play is making 
    every 3 seconds!

    Gerry

    PS Jeff - it's OFFSIDE not offsides!

    re -2 (Jeff) Don't you think it's a little bit to complicated what you
    say there ? The ball is played in the direction of Romario who actually
    interfering Wouters to run directly after Bebeto......Clear offside to
    me......
    But I guess it takes a while before we ( active players) are getting
    used to that...before that time ; run after every ball ! ( And that is
    something the dutch defenders didn't do, because they were waiting for
    the whistle ; it's called professionalism. You expect that a ref on
    this level can handle it.). From now one ; don't trust the ref or his
    linesmen.......they don't know it either...;-)
    
    John

    An immense cloud of doubt over Baggio's winning goal. Is everybody out
    there 100% sure that he was not off-side when he got the ball from
    Signori? Was he covered? The replay did not convince me.
    
    �JF?

    
    
    re .56
    
     That's what I thought at first, but the replay shows he was clearly
    onside when the ball was played.
    
     I thought the defender who tried to cover the goal-line made a right
    mess of it. He seemed to half-expect Baggio to pull the ball back after
    he rounded the 'keeper and wasn't quick enough in covering the near
    post.
    
    Danny.

            <<< Note 416.56 by ISEPUB::CHAMPOLLION "Can-tas-tic" >>>
                               -< Got it taped? >-

>    An immense cloud of doubt over Baggio's winning goal. Is everybody out
>    there 100% sure that he was not off-side when he got the ball from
>    Signori? Was he covered? The replay did not convince me.
    
>    �JF?


     I am pretty sure that when the ball was played he was *not* offside. Also
     well done to the ref for playing advantage, most of the other officials
     I have seen would had stopped the game after Beppe got decked.

     Stuart

     BTW How long can the Italians sustain their luck?

    RE:.57  This was the same defender who made the first tackle on Signori
    ^ then tried to cover the goal line as well...I wouldn't attach any 
    blame to the defender at all.
    
    BC 
    

AP Report

German Goalkeeper Quits the National Team

EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. (AP) - Goalkeeper Bodo Illgner quit the German national
team Sunday immediately after his team's ouster by Bulgaria in the World Cup
quarterfinal.

"I told the coach in the locker room that I will not play for the national
team anymore," Illgner said after the defending champion's 2-1 upset by the
Bulgarians.

"I had made the decision to quit already before, but I wanted to depart with
another World Cup title. It didn't work out but I am standing by my
decision," Illgner, 27, said.

Vogts said he was disappointed by Illgner's move.

"It shows some weakness of character. This is the first real human
disappointment for me," Vogts said.

Asked about Illgner's reaction to the free-kick shot by Hristo Stoichkov that
tied the game, Vogts replied, "It's good that he is quitting."

Illgner said he did not feel guilty for Bulgaria's goal.

"I don't think that it's also my fault. The ball was shot extremely flatly
over the wall," he said.

Vogts said the German wall was also to blame, because some players in the
wall failed to jump high when Stoichkov fired from some 25 meters (yards) on
the right.

"I think the wall was also not in a good position, our defense was very
hectic at the time and we were not calm," the goalkeeper said.

Illgner, making his 54th appearance in German colors, made no effort to catch
the ball, which dropped into his left corner, and appeared to have been
caught by surprise.

He made his international debut in a 1-0 victory over Denmark in Hamburg, on
Sept. 23, 1987. He has spent his entire pro career at FC Cologne, which he
joined at 1983.

Illgner kept goal for Germany when the team won the 1990 World Cup title.

He had a slump during the 1992 European Championship in Sweden, when Germany
lost the final 2-0 to Denmark. He lost his starting place briefly, and had to
constantly prove himself against 32-year-old Andreas Koepke.

Shortly before traveling to the United States, he won a vote of confidence
from Vogts, who picked Illgner over Koepke because of his experience at the
previous World Cup.

He had a spotty performance during the World Cup, making no glaring mistakes
but lacking confidence in some situations.

Illgner created a stir when his wife Bianca blasted German soccer officials
for not allowing wives and girlfriends of players to stay in the same hotel.

He also came under fire for leaving the team hotel without permission to see
his wife and daughter.

Illgner was a close friend of Stefan Effenberg, the German player who was
sent home for making an obscene gesture toward German fans.

His successor in the national team is expected to be either Koepke, or Oliver
Kahn, the 25-year-old No. 3 in the national team whom many already consider
the top goalkeeper in the Bundesliga.

Reuter report

BULGARIAN KILLS HUSBAND AFTER WORLD CUP CELEBRATIONS

SOFIA, July 11 (Reuter) - A woman killed her husband with a kitchen knife
after he came home drunk from celebrating Bulgaria's victory over Germany in
the World Cup, the state news agency BTA said on Monday.

Matei Yordanov, 46, died after his wife grabbed a knife and stabbed him three
or four times on Sunday night, the agency said.

The woman had told police in Kyustendil, western Bulgaria, Iordanov had
threatened to kill their son.

AP report

Welcome to Modern World: Video Leads to Eight-Game Suspension

PASADENA, Calif. (AP) - Soccer has entered the age of instant replay.

For the first time at a World Cup, FIFA has used video replays to punish a
player for an action the referee on the field didn't catch.

The disciplinary committee of FIFA imposed an eight-game suspension - twice
the previous longest it had handed out at recent World Cups - to Mauro
Tassotti, for an elbow to the nose of a Spanish player during last Saturday's
2-1 win by Italy in the quarterfinals.

Tassotti will be benched Wednesday for Italy's semifinal against Bulgaria. If
Italy reaches the World Cup final, Tassotti will sit out that game, too, plus
at least Italy's first six games in preliminary rounds of the European
Championship.

Italian team officials did not dispute that he Tassotti had committed an
offense but said they would appeal, evidently in hopes of reducing the ban.

Team coach Arrigo Sacchi said, "Mauro knows that he did wrong ... but both
the player and we all have been upset about the length of the suspension."

Italy will go against Bulgaria with two starters benched by suspensions.
Gianfranco Zola is completing a two-game suspension for a red card in a
second-round victory over Nigeria.

Tassotti had apologized for the blow, which broke Luis Enrique's nose and
left his face covered with blood. He was not penalized on the field and said
later the elbowing was accidental.

After looking at the videotapes, the disciplinary committee had one response:
No way.

"The disciplinary committee judged Tassotti's action against Spain's Luis
Enrique as intentional serious violent conduct," a FIFA statement said.

It said the suspension and a dlrs 16,000 fine can be appealed.

This marked the first time at the World Cup in a case that did not draw a
referee's sanction that FIFA used videotapes of the play to find out
precisely what happened.

"It was unique because this case did not start with the referee's report."
FIFA spokesman Andreas Herren said. "It was all up to the tape."

FIFA said referee Sandor Puhl of Hungary acted properly in not penalizing
Tassotti on the spot because he did not have a clear view of the elbowing,
which occurred during a scrap for the ball late in the game.

The committee also denied an appeal of its previous long ban, a four-game
suspension of Brazilian defender Leonardo for an elbow that fractured the
skull of American Tab Ramos. Leonardo's elbow drew a red card.

In addition, the disciplinary committee:

-Fined the Netherlands delegation dlrs 8,000 and cautioned coach Dick
Advocaat for bad behavior on the bench during Saturday's 3-2 quarterfinal
loss to Brazil.

-Fined Brazil goalie Taffarel dlrs 8,000 violating advertising restrictions
by wearing logos on his goalkeeper gloves that were too big.

-Suspended Stefan Schwarz of Sweden for the semifinal against Brazil for
picking up two yellow cards in the quarterfinal victory over Romania. Schwarz
also was fined dlrs 2,400.

    Sounds pretty awful to me - I wouldn't fancy being benched either ..
    
    Ray

     ���<<< Note 416.58 by YUPPY::PANES "The sun never sets on a legend" >>>
     ���
     ���Stuart
     ���
     ���BTW How long can the Italians sustain their luck?


     Hopefully for one more game!


     -Leonardo