Conference trucks::football;1

    
    Since Bulgaria won, would someone re-enter the data from the prior note
    with the adjusted match-ups?
    
    Mike

    It will be an exciting 2nd round !!
    
    The final match-ups:
    
    
    
        Romania - Argentina \_______
        Saudi - Sweden      /       \_______
        Holland - Ireland   \_______/       \
        Brazil - USA        /                \_______
        Mexico - Bulgaria   \_______         /
        Germany - Belgium   /       \_______/
        Nigeria - Italy     \_______/
        Spain - Switzerland /
    
    
    Simon
    

I guess these teams will go to Quarter Finals

    Romania   
    Sweden 
    Holland
    Brazil 

    Bulgaria
    Germany
    Nigeria
    Spain


/Tonny

    
    Tonny  I really hope you can be wrong in here
    
    

>>        Romania - Argentina \_______
>>        Saudi - Sweden      /       \_______
>>        Holland - Ireland   \_______/       \
>>        Brazil - USA        /                \_______
>>        Mexico - Bulgaria   \_______         /
>>        Germany - Belgium   /       \_______/
>>        Nigeria - Italy     \_______/
>>        Spain - Switzerland /
    
Anybody with the dates and times (European) for all this stuff ???
    
    Thanx in advance....
    
    		Eric
    

 	

	Romania - Argentina 	0 - 2	
        Saudi - Sweden 		1 - 2     
        			    
	Holland - Ireland	1 - 2	          
        Brazil - USA 		3 - 0           
        
	Mexico - Bulgaria 	1 - 2 	         
        Germany - Belgium 	2 - 1       
        
	Nigeria - Italy		2 - 1 	
        Spain - Switzerland	1 - 2
    	
	===============================
	
	Argentina - Sweden	3 - 2

	Brazil - Ireland	2 - 0

	Bulgaria - Germany	2 - 1

	Nigeria - Switzerland 	3 - 0 

	================================

	Argentina - Brazil	2 - 3

	Nigeria - Bulgaria	3 - 1

	===============================

	Nigeria - Brazil	 3 - 2 


	

	Viva Nigeria !!!!!!

    
    
    re .4
    
         Saturday 2-Jul
    
          Germany v Belgium     -  Chicago    18:05
          Spain   v Switzerland -  Washington 21:35
    
         Sunday   3-Jul
    
          Saudi   v Sweden      -  Dallas     18:05
          Romania v Argentina   -  LA         21:35
    
         Monday   4-Jul
    
          Holland v Ireland     -  Orlando    17:05
          Brazil  v USA         -  San F.     21:35
    
         Tuesday  5-Jul
    
          Nigeria v Italy       -  Boston     18:05
          Mexico  v Bulgaria    -  New York   21:35
    

    
	Germany v Belgium     	1:0
    	Spain   v Switzerland 	on penalties.
    
	Saudi   v Sweden     	1:3
	Romania v Argentina  	2:1
    
	Holland v Ireland     	on penalties
	Brazil  v USA         	3:0
    
    	Nigeria v Italy 	2:1
	Mexico  v Bulgaria    	2:1
    
    Heiko

    
    
    Oh no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    This  discussion has turned into another "predictions" notes... aaaargh!
    
    Al.

    
    I agree with re .9's "aaaargh", let's talk about the individual games
    instead.
    
    I think Italy v Nigeria seems to be the most interesting game.
    One question about Italy, why isn't Lombardo, Sampdoria in the italian
    team? He's really great and would be the leader of the team, which I
    think is something that Italy really needs.
    
    /Mats

    
    >why isn't Lombardo, Sampdoria in the italian team
    
     try to ask Sacchi about this.  

    
    	Lombardo is not in the team because he's not in the squad in USA.
    
    	Yours helpfully,

He should get himself a smart wig, sorry, hair transplant, like that Bulgarian
goalkeeper. Then he's be in the team nay worries. And all the lasses would fancy
him probably.

Mike

P.S. I think this might be good advice for some others as well, mentioning no
names. (Grahame Ash) 8-)

>>He should get himself a smart wig, sorry, hair transplant, like that Bulgarian
>>goalkeeper. Then he's be in the team nay worries. And all the lasses would fancy
>>him probably.

	They did not take him because he's not in the same class as
    (Pick a few) Lalas, Valderamma, Roberto Baggio, Cobi Jones, Meola...
    
	Seriously, how 'bout Daniele Massaro ??? He's leagues ahead of
    Casiraghi. Why he does not play more is beyond my understanding
    
    Eric
    

>P.S. I think this might be good advice for some others as well, mentioning no
>names. (Grahame Ash) 8-)

Many's the time Lombardo (yes, we're on second-name terms) and I have laughed 
at these hairist remarks, content in the knowledge that our skill on the field 
speaks for itself. (Mine says: You're crap!)

And we also agree that Casiraghi is out of place in the Italian team - I've 
never seen Italy play well while he's playing.

g

    And here was I, hoping that with Effenberg gone and Riedle "not in
    his best shape" we'd see Basler and Kuntz playing. But no way.
    
    Voeller and Berthold are supposed to play. With Brehme and Helmer
    defending. URGH. 
    
    Why do I bother ? I'm on a birthday party tomorrow evening. I'll just
    have to wait for the result. 
    
    Heiko 

    
    re .0
    
    Could someone repost this handy progression chart with the updated
    matches on? It would be quite handy to see who plays who after the
    second round.
    
    And I never got one of those nice wallchart thingies.
    
    Ian.

    
    
    	Germany v Belgium	Match 4
    
    	Spain v Switzerland	Match 6
    
    	S. Arabia v Sweden	Match 2
    
    	Romania v Argentina	Match 1
    
    	Netherlands v Eire	Match 7
    
    	Brazil v USA		Match 8
    
    	Nigeria v Italy		Match 5
    
    	Mexico v Bulgaria	Match 3
    
    
    	Quarter Finals
    
    	Winner Match 1 v Winner Match 2		Match A
    
    	Winner Match 3 v Winner Match 4		Match B
    
    	Winner Match 5 v Winner Match 6		Match C
    
    	Winner Match 7 v Winner Match 8 	Match D
    
    	
    	Semi Finals
    
    	Winner Match A v Winner Match D
    
    	Winner Match B v Winner Match C
    
    

    I think this is the way it will line up. 
    
    Jim.
    
    
    Romania - Argentina	\_______
    Saudi - Sweden	/	\_______
    Mexico - Bulgaria	\_______/       \
    Germany - Belgium	/	         \
                                          |-> Winners
    Holland - Ireland	\_______ 	 /
    Brazil - USA	/	\_______/ 
    Nigeria - Italy	\_______/
    Spain - Switzerland	/
    

    Romania - Argentina	\_______          
    Saudi - Sweden	/	\_______
    Mexico - Bulgaria	\_______/       \
    Germany - Belgium	/	         \
                                          |-> Winners
    Nigeria - Italy	\_______         /
    Spain - Switzerland	/       \_______/
    Holland - Ireland	\_______/ 	 
    Brazil - USA	/       
    

    Sorry,
    
    	Should have read .2 before posting my reply in .18
    
    	My note in .18 is right but .2 puts it much clearer.
    
    
    
    				Paul

    Well according to the Mosaic page as contributed by 'SUN' and they
    should know? after all it is their world cup?
    
    Romania - Argentina \_______
    Saudi - Sweden      /       \_______
    Holland - Ireland   \_______/       \
    Brazil - USA        /                \
                                          |-> Winners
    Nigeria - Italy     \_______         /
    Spain - Switzerland /       \_______/ 
    Mexico - Bulgaria   \_______/       
    Germany - Belgium   /                
    
    1)	Germany v Belgium  	2/7	Chicago		18:05 (BST)
    2)	Spain v Switzerland 	2/7	Washington	21:35 	"
    
    3)	Saudi Arabia v Sweden	3/7	Dallas		18:05	"
    4)	Romania v Argentina	3/7	Pasadena	21:35	"
    
    5)	Holland v Ireland	4/7	Orlando		17:05 	"
    6)	Brazil v USA		4/7	Stanford	20:35 	"
    
    7)	Nigeria v Italy		5/7	Foxboro		18:05	"
    8)	Mexico v Bulgaria	5/7	E.Rutherford	21:35	"
    
    
    A)	Winner 7) v Winner 2)	9/7	Foxboro		17:05	"
    B)	Winner 5) v Winner 6)	9/7	Dallas		20:35   "
    
    C)	Winner 8) v Winner 1)	10/9	E.Rutherford	17:05	"
    D)	Winner 3) v Winner 4)	10/9	Stanford	20:35	"
    
    X)	Winner C) v Winner A)	13/7	E.Rutherford	21:05	"
    Y)	Winner D) v Winner B)	14/7	Pasadena	00:35	"
    
    Loser X) v Loser Y)		16/7	Pasadena	20:35	"
    
    Winner X) v Winner Y)	17/7	Pasadena	20:35	"
    
    Enjoy
    
    AndyH
    

    Re: last few
    
    Sounds strange too me, maning that for instance the winner of
    Germany-Belgium will have 3 more days of rest than his opponent 
    from the Mexico-Bulgaria matchup.
    
    	Go figure...
    
    	Eric

    
    A bit of a pain having to find a bar by 6pm.  Just hope theres no
    offsite meetings 'planned' for next week, and that Lux don't have EOD
    problems...
    
    N.

    Could someone let me know the schedule all the games 
    with easten standard time (EST).
    
    Thank you.
    
    QN

	re .25

	The times for the U.K. are in BST (=UTC + 1)
	EST is UTC - 5
	However, the Eastern time zone of North America is currently operating
	on EDT (UTC - 4), which can be obtained from BST by subtracting 5 hours.

	Tony

    Here is the schedule EST time
    
    Day		Match			TV Coverage	Time
    
    Saturday:	Germany vs Belgium 	ABC		1:00pm
    		Spain vs Switzerland	ESPN		4:30pm
    
    Sunday:	Saudi Arabia vs Sweden	ABC		1:00pm
    		Romania vs Argentina	ESPN		4:30pm
    
    Monday:	Holland vs Ireland	ABC		Noon
    		Brazil vs USA		ESPN		3:30pm
    
    Tuesda:	Nigeria vs Italy	ESPN		1:00pm
    		Mexico vs Bulgaria	ESPN		4:30pm

    		Germany 3   Belgium 2

    A great game with Klinsman outstanding.  3 goals in the first ten
    minutes.  Very little fouling and a stormimg finish by Belgium.
    Others can describe the game it detail - I'll take it from the
    reffing point of view.  A reasonable game marred by one horrendous
    decision.   Not only should it have been a penalty but also a red
    card for a tackle from behind.  I don't know what TV commentators
    in other countries said, but in the U.S. our Irish analyst said
    that he had not seen a clearer case of a penalty throughout the
    tournament.  I have to agree with him!  Belgium at least deserved
    to go to overtime.  I hope Mr. Kurt Roethlisberger of Switzerland 
    is pointed to the airport immediately!

    That notwithstanding it was a great exhibition of football by both 
    sides. Let's hope the rest of the Cup is as good.

    Gerry

Hi Gerry,

Our venerated experts on the BBC agreed a penalty should have been given, but 
stressed that the ref was a long way behind and couldn't be certain that 
Helmer didn't play the ball. Picture from behind the goal showed he didn't. 
Apparently the Belgians are a little upset . . , but in my opinion they'd be 
better off asking where their central defenders were in the first half! 

Germany good value for the win - they're looking ominous again.

grahame

	Spain 3   Switzerland 0

A classic counter-attacking display  by Spain who calmly soaked up endless 
Swiss pressure, and occasionally broke away and scored. The Swiss may feel 
unlucky, but at this level you need a spark of brilliance to turn possession 
into goals. Switzerland's best chance disappeared during the warm-up when 
Sutter was hurt.

g

    
    	Last nights results:
    
    	Sweden 	 3 : 0  Saudi 
    	Roumania 3 : 2  Argentina
    
        The two winners meet in the next round (1/4 finals)

    would some kind soul please post the Irish team when Jack announces
    it?...
    
    Ray....(suffering....Budweiser, Miller etc.etc.)

    Ray... how are the nerves ?!?! They won't be any better since now
    Jack is not going to announce the team until just before kickoff.
    All 22 are fit and Cascarino is expected to get a run late on.
    According to the papers, Kelly looks likely to start instead
    of Irwin, and McAteer and Staunton look likely too. 
    
    Roll on 5PM !
    
    Jim.
    
    

    
    Actually, the score was Sweden 3 - 1 Saudi. It was quite a good goal so
    we shouldn't just ignore it 8^)
    
    Archie
    

    Archie,
    
    It's been very warm out here in Switzerland for the past few days, and
    obviously Jon has been affected more than most by the sun. You're right
    about the Saudi goal, though. An absolute cracker, and no more than
    they deserved !
    
    The game of the next round (apart, obviously, from Ireland v Brazil),
    should be Sweden .v. Romania. If both teams play up to their standard
    in yesterdays game, it should be very entertaining.
    
    Jerry. 

    .33
    Jim, the nerves aren't doing too good at the moment. What are the
    papers saying about the team over there?... 
    
    
    I think Staunton will be rested for this one. He was the player who was
    most affected by the heat -v- Mexico, so I think Houghton will stay on
    the left, giving McAteer a chance to rip the p!$$ out of the Dutch
    left-back....here's the team that I hope Jack picks
    
    				Bonner
    
    Irwin		Babb		Ooh-Ahh			Phelan
    
    				Sheridan
    McAteer		Keane			Townsend	Houghton
    
    				Aldo
    
    By the way, if anyone in the Ayr area wants to watch the game with a
    bunch of screaming Irishmen and women, (and a few English, Scottish
    and Welsh thrown in),come along to Ayr Rugby Club and tear your hair out 
    in comfort....
    
    
    Ray....

    Mark Lawrenson reckons that the team could well be:
    
    Bonner
    Kelly
    Babb
    McGrath
    Phelan
    McAteer
    Keane
    Whelan
    Townsend
    Staunton
    Coyne
    
    He figures that Jack is big into balance, that's why Staunton will
    start on the left. Peter Byrne favours Kelly too but would have 
    Sheridan start instead of Whelan. He also thinks that Jack will
    keep Aldo as a sub because of his penalty kicking skills (so he
    can bring him on fresh at the end).
    
    Any word on the Dutch likely lineout ?
    
    Jim.
    
    

Jack said on Tv last night that Staunton would most probably play as there was
no one else on the team that was capable of crossing and taking the set plays
with the left peg.
I hope Stan plays, as for Irwin I think he will be dropped along with Houghton,
for Kelly and McAteer.
If Irwin and Stan were dropped there would be no one to take the corners and
free kicks in the Ireland team with the exception of Sheridan.
I feel that Coyne will start in preference to Aldridge.
If things aren't going Irelands way he may bring on Cascarino on for the final
20 minutes or so and reveret to the old 4-4-2 formation
My Team


				Bonner


	Kelly		McGrath		 Babb		Phelan



	McAteer		Keane		 Townsend	Staunton

				Sheridan

				Coyne

GS in Dublin

    
    Apparently Gary Kelly is not under consideration as his blisters have
    burst....so RTE was saying this morning....
    
    Dezzz.

    
    ...and Paul McGrath is already the best player on the pitch, and the game 
    is still hours away.
    
    Dave... 

    
    I cant see Irelands luck helping them today, Holland are by far
    the stronger side of the two. PREDICTION:: Holland 1 Ireland 0, Berkamp
    scoring in the fisrt half... 
    
    Andy..B
    

    From the Evening Standard - Brazil have dropped Rai for the match with
    the USA. Mazinho takes over with Dunga as captain.
    
    Paul

    Holland is expected to play 4-4-2, with Bergkamp and Van Vossen. Roy
    and Overmars won't play. Certainly a big tactical change.
    
    Looking forward to Holland-Brazil on saturday...

    Holland must be worried if they're changing their tactics
    just for today's game... it should be close because there's
    little to separate the teams... 
    
    Looking forward to USA-Ireland on saturday....
    
    Jim.

    re-1 The dutch change because the players asked for it, three games
    ago.........
    
    This will probably be the dutch team :
    
    				de Goey
    Blind ( hurra !)	      Koeman			de Boer
    				Valkx
    
    Winter	 		Jonk			Witschge
    
    Overmars			Bergkamp		Roy
    
    It will be a 4-3-3 team. Advocaat made very clear that he didn't want
    to play 4-4-2 ( with Rijkaard and van Vossen for Roy and Overmars)
    
    John
    

Does anyone know when the Ireland game is due to be screened
on TV ??

Barry

    
    Orlando 			12:00 (EST)
    Dublin/London		17:00 (BST)
    Amsterdam/Rome/Berlin       18:00 (CET)
    
    Dezzz.

    12 noon Eastern Daylight Savings Time.  If you're in the UK I 
    assume 5pm unless you don't get it live!!

    Gerry

    re -1.
    
    Looks like a strong team. Should be a tense game.. remember
    Euro '88 when the ball took a crazy spin in the last 
    ten minutes!!! I think it's Ireland's turn this time...
    
    come on the greens!
    
    Jim.
    
    PS who does Overmars play for ?

    
    I can see a 2-2 draw going into extra time....?? maybe even
    the dreaded penalties...
    
    Dezzz.

    
    >>Who does Overmars play for ?
    
    
    He plays for Ajax Amsterdam; the greatest team in Holland
    
    Gerrit

    
    Last night, the Argentina-Romania match was the finest game of football
    so far in this world-cup ! All offensive; great skill and real fun to
    watch for a neutral spectator.
    
    This is what football is about ! 
    
    and yes.....Romania are another candidate to make the finals.
    
    Gerrit

    RE -1.... it was a great game... I think Romania could 
    even go on to win the trophy. Their counter-attacking speed
    was incredible, the last 2 goals were brilliant.
    
    

    
    Re.49
    
>>    PS who does Overmars play for ?
    
	Holland I think! It doesn't sound like an Irish name.....but there
    again..... 8-)
    
    JBG

    
    Agree Rumania v Argentina....by far the best game of the tournament so
    far.....I actually felt sorry for Argentina....I actually wanted this
    game to go into extra time to savour the football being dished up...
    
    Excellent.....
    
    Dezzz.

    >	Holland I think! It doesn't sound like an Irish name.....but there
    >again..... 8-)
    
    Well spotted! I think I'm suffering from big match nerves.
    These things happen when your team gets to the World Cup 
    2nd round  :-)
    
    Jim.
    
    

    
    Call me cynical, but if I was marking Hagi, I'd be "marking" Hagi, if
    you know what I mean. Surely if you "stop" Hagi very early, you stop
    Romania?
    
    Tony
    
    

    Jim,
    
    JBG is Welsh, so he doesn't know very much about such things !!!!

    Re: .57
    
    Cynical.

    Holland lost a 4-4-2 trainingmatch against the B-team with 0-3 on
    saturday. The B-team had third goalie Van der Sar playing on the
    midfield, and their fysiotherapist was playing right back.
    That made Advocaat decide he certainly didn't want to play 4-4-2...

    
    Re .60
    
    	Actually this was a cunning ploy to confuse Jack. And it seems to
    have worked! He's picked himself at left back, Maurice in goals and
    good old Ronnie at center forward! 8-0
    
    JBG

� good old Ronnie at center forward! 8-0

	Well with that team I'd say 8 nil to Ireland is very
	optimistic.

	Ian.

    Re .29:
    
>Our venerated experts on the BBC agreed a penalty should have been given, but 
>stressed that the ref was a long way behind and couldn't be certain that 
               =============================        
>Helmer didn't play the ball. Picture from behind the goal showed he didn't. 
>Apparently the Belgians are a little upset . . , but in my opinion they'd be 
>better off asking where their central defenders were in the first half! 
                   ==================================
    
    Two points here: 
    
    - Is this meant as an excuse for the ref's decision? In my opinion
    there was absolutely no excuse
    
    - Does the failing of defenders justify not awarding a penalty later ...?
    
    Other than that, Germany played their best game in the tournament, and
    probably (???) would have won with the penalty as well.
    
    Chris.

I don't know if anyone picked this up last night...

Half time in the Rumania - Argentina match and Alan Hansen
was talking about one of the Rumanian goals....

He said..."The Argentinian defender should have been shot
for that mistake....."

Very tactful Alan...

Jim.

    
    Dennis Bergkamp has just put Holland in front after 11 minutes.
    
    Tony
    
    

well into the second half, now 2-0 to Holland. Second goal caused by a mistake
by Bonner

	Ray

final score Holland 2 Ireland 0

	Ray

    
    	Brazil 1 : 0 USA
    
    	Brazil finally disposed of the USA in another game full of incident 
    last night. The first half could have gone either way with both sides
    having clear goal-scoring chances. A both ends there were incidents
    where the ball was played across the face of the goal with the keeper
    beaten but with the stretching attacker also failing to make contact.
    As usual the Brazilian finishing was a bit wide after some incredible
    skill in the build up. But the USA defended valiantly and with half-time 
    approaching it was still 0:0.
    	Then disaster struck Brazil as full-back Leonardo tangled with Ramos
    on the touch-line and what looked like some harmless shoving & shirt
    pulling finished when Leonardo smashed Ramos in the face with his
    elbow. The ref, only yards away, had no choice than to send him off.
    Ramos was stretchered off & played no further part in the game (he look
    out cold at first). The incident was replayed many times and whilst
    there is no doubt that the elbowing was deliberate it seemed to me just
    a flash reaction & Leonardo maybe didn't mean to catch the guy in the
    face JMHO.
    	Right on the stroke of half time Romario tore through the USA
    defence and smashed a shot off Meola's left hand post.
    	Wynalda came on at the start of the 2nd half to replace Ramos.
    Brazil came out looking very lively and had some good chances early on.
    In the end it was Romario who again prised open the defence and touched
    the ball to Bebeto who slid the ball across Meola into the far corner.
    USA made a game of it but inspite of the sending off the night belonged
    to Brazil. They displayed their usual range of ball skills and really
    should have finished with more goals. If they had the clinical
    finishing of the Rumainians they would be finishing games in double
    figures with all the chances they create!
    	With about 5 minutes to go one of the USA defenders took Romario
    out late (it didn't look nasty, Romario was simply to quick for him)
    and as he already had a yellow card the ref had no choice (esspecially
    after Romario's protestations) than to send him off. So, it finished 1
    : nil for Brazil and they now go on to meet Holland on the weekend.
    
    JBG

    	Oh, I nearly forgot, my comiserations to Ireland who deserved
    better. A very unfortunate mistake from Bonner made it 2:0 when the
    Dutch looked pretty ragged. I'd have to give Phelan the blame for the
    first goal. He tried to head a bouncing ball back to the keeper from
    just within his own half. The header was never going to be strong
    enough and nobody in the Irish defence could match O'vermaars (who we
    can now confirm as having played for Holland!) for pace. His square
    ball left Bergkamp with a simpe chance which he blasted past Bonner.
    That was after 11 minutes and the 2nd came from a long range shot from
    Jonk which Bonner let slip by his fingers just before half time.
    	The Dutch looked out of the game from most of the second half.
    McAteer came on for Staunton and ran rings round the Dutch. Little Gary
    Kelly 8-) made some great runs against Bergkamp and Ireland had their
    chances to score. There shooting, unfortunately, was either high & wide
    (eg. Sheridan) or too soft (eg. Keane & Houghton). Ireland certainly
    deserved at least one goal and with 5 minutes to go it looked like they
    had it when McAteer chipped the ball in to McGrath! on the edge of the
    box. He controlled it over Rijkaards and blasted a half volley past the
    Dutch keeper only to have it disallowed for cleaning Rijkaards teeth
    with his studs (foot up 8-).
    	So, Ireland go out but can be proud of their team. A great
    performance which had the Dutch rattled for long periods. A pity for
    Bonner but it was always going to be difficult to get back after the
    first goal. For my money I would have plyed Irwin at left back and
    definitely had McAteer on from the start. Anyway, well done you Irish
    chaps!
    
    JBG
    
    Ps anyone seen Jerry??? I'm a bit worried 'cos he had 100SFrs onIreland
    getting further than Germany....silly boy, he can't say I didn't warn
    him!

    
    Brazil 1 USA 0
    
    The worst performance from Brazil so far, but they sneak through. 
    
    Should be a good game next aginst Holland, but I dont like Holland's
    defence against Romario and Bebeto. 
    
    When are we going to see the 17 year old, Renaldo is it..? 
    
    Ireland 0  Holland 2
    
    Two mistakes cost Ireland the game, and despite the fact that they
    tried hard, Holland always looked in control but only because Ireland 
    are weak in attack. Bergkamp is starting to look good. 
    
    Koemen is in trouble in the next game.
    
    Dave...                             

    
        Romania - Argentina --  Romania --
                              |           |
        Saudi - Sweden      --  Sweden  --
    
        Holland - Ireland   --  Holland --
                              |           |
        Brazil - USA        --  Brazil  --
    
    
        Mexico - Bulgaria   --    ????  --
                              |           |
        Germany - Belgium   --  Germany --
    
        Nigeria - Italy     --    ????  --
                              |           |
        Spain - Switzerland --  Spain   --
    

    I hope Holland thump Brazil. After last nights matches, Brazil have
    dropped in my estimations. They used to rely on skill and class but
    after Leonardo's deliberate elbow on Ramos and the pathetic antics of
    Romario/Bebeto/any other Brazilian who got tackled, in waving an
    imaginary card in the ref's face to get the USA player booked, they are
    resorting to typical South American tactics. Clavijo's ordering off was
    a poor decision by the ref, who was swayed by the pleading of Romario.
    The best moment of the match was when Bebeto was fouled, waved his
    imaginary yellow card to get the player booked and then had the foul
    awarded against him for unsportsmanlike conduct. Serves him right.
    
    Can any of the Irish lads confirm that Packie Bonner has Scottish or
    South Korean or even English blood (a la Ray Clemence) ?
    
    Kev...

    Ireland - Netherlands(!)	0-2
    Great game of both teams. The dutch were the strongest in the first
    half, the Irish had the best in the second half. It was a fair game,
    hardly any fouls...two teams playing openly ! I hated the second goal,
    Bonner didn't deserved this.....For that reason I was glad the Irish
    didn't score again....if it had been 2-1 it was this stupid goal that
    made the difference.......
    The second half was mainly on the dutch half, but the Irish couldn't
    get through. The best chances were for Roy on the other side, who 
    should have scored twice.....
    And the end was terrific, did you see how Advocaat and Jack put their
    arms around their shoulders ? Did you see that coaches of the rest of
    the world ???? This picture stood on the frontpage of my newspaper,
    illustrating that we are happy for our eleven but feel pity for the
    Irish ; playing so enthusiastic, 90 minutes in that sauna !!!!
    Saturday the Brazilians. They played yesterday their worst
    match....acting constantly as if they were fouled very bad ; forgetting
    the pain immediately by asking for cards for their opponent.......
    if that is your mentality you don't deserve to be the champion......
    I was not impressed by them. Romario will have to face his friend
    Valkx...they know each other very good. But when Romario has his
    moments, who can stop him ?????? For sure not his teammate Koeman...
    
    John

    If it wasn't apparent before to Big Jack, then it must be now. Ireland
    needs a striker, not a player to sit in front of the midfield and run
    about all day and night....I can't help thinking that Aldo would have
    put at least one of those chances away, (i.e. Houghton's header from
    Staunton's cross). Having said that, Holland, in my opinion, would have
    found a way to beat us even without the 2 blunders that cost us the
    match. Bergkamp looks like he has finally gone into top gear, Koeman
    could still be a liability. I think that they have a real chance
    against Brazil. 
    
    I fell asleep during the Brazil game, so I only saw the highlights
    later. Leonardo will have to be thrown out of the tournament for his
    assault on Ramos. FIFA have a real chance of stamping out this kind of
    thing now by slapping a long ban on Leonardo. In rugby a player could
    be suspended for anything up to a year for a similar incident, and/or
    prosecuted in a court of law for common assault. However, well done to
    Brazil for still playing great football with only ten men and well done
    to the USA, you did your country proud.
    
    Ray....

    
    Good game by the Dutch and a below par performance by the Irish but
    still the entertainment factor was good. The refereeing was again very
    inconsistent and judged akin to a non-contact sport. An example in the
    first half was when Kelly made a run down the right followed by
    Bergkamp....Kelly won a free-kick for falling over himself.Anyway good
    luck to the Dutch who should beat Brazil based on their relative
    debacle in Northern Calafornia. 
    
    The USA played terrific with heart, skill and risk. They were beaten by
    a goal which not many defences would be able to stop. Disgusted by the
    constant Brazilian requests for yellow cards....
    I must say however that Leonardo's sending off is being exagerated. He
    was having his shirt pulled to which a natural reaction is to elbow off
    an opponent. What he didn't realise was that the Americans head was in
    the position a torso was expected to be in. The sending off I suppose
    was justified but to throw him out of the tournament...a bit harsh.
    
    With all due respect to the ladies in the notesfile...FIFA are turning
    men's football into a woman's game, not that there is anything wrong
    with woman's football but football is a contact sport or at least I
    think it is/was.
    
    Dezzz. 
      
                    

I agree about the sending off, but I disagree about the Brazilian whinging. I
think they were just pointing out that in the first half hour several Brazilian
players had been booked for far less vicious fouls. I don't think their whining
forced the referee to send off that American bloke either. He wasn't exactly
swayed by Bebeto, so why should Romario be any different?

USA played well, but nobody's mentioning the fact that they played a ten man
defence, and I have to say that I was well happy when Bebeto scored. Still
betting on Brazil for the final.

Mike

    Disappointing result... It's always worse when you lose a 
    game by giving away silly goals. Having said that, the Dutch
    deserved their win, the game was won and lost in the first 
    half when Holland played to win and Ireland played like 
    they didn't want to lose. At this stage of the competition
    teams have to go for it straight from the kick-off and that's
    what the Dutch did... They were too strong for us down the 
    wings and O'Vermars was a flyer.
    
    We played much better after the break but too much damage 
    had been done by then. On the bright side some of our young
    players were excellent, and with the likes of Kelly, Babb,
    Keane and McAteer we can look forward to some more good years.
    Not a great way to finish for Packie, but he's been great over
    the years and that's the way to remember him.... that's the 
    second poxy goal the Dutch have got against us!! Must be the
    way they spin their shots.... anyway, c'est la vie... it was
    good while it lasted and it's been the best footballing World
    Cup in ages,
    
    Jim.
    
    PS Good match report JBG, we'll be cheering on Wales in 1998!
    

    
    re.75
    
    Dez (zz)
    
    How can you say the USA played with risk, they stuck everyone behind
    the ball and made no attempt to win the game. I think their total
    ambition in this game was to make sure they did'nt get thrashed.
    
    Can't condone the Brazillians attempts to get everyone booked, but it
    just highlights the inconsistancy in the refereeing.
    
    Dave...
    

    re: .78
    Have to agree there. I don't think there's any more reason to condone
    the US performance against Brazil than the Norwegian performance
    against Italy.
    
    If you can't throw men forward when you've got a numerical advantage,
    then you're better off out of the competition.
    
    Dom

    
    I agree with you Dezzzz,
    
    	Leonardo had to go but I felt sorry for him. As he swung his elbow
    he didn't raise it towards  Ramos's head, it was unfortunate that his
    head was so low. Up to now the Brazilians have shown that they don't
    need to play dirty, they win using skill so I dono't think we should
    now turn around and say Brazil are a dirty team. It was an unfortunate
    incident and I'm sure Leonardo would have regretted it even if he
    hadn't been sent off.
    	However, I must say I don't like this growing trend with Romario
    & Bebeto to call for the yellow card after each & every foul. They are
    great players but their behaviour lets them and their side down. The best
    players always get fouled the most and they have a right to proper
    protection. They must leave the referee to decide. I really hope
    Romario doesn't become another Maradonna....yuch!
    
    JBG
    
    Ps I wonder what the odds are for Koemans not playing again in this
    World Cup after Saturday? 8-)
    

    
    I must add my comments on the refereeing. I don't blame the Brazilians
    for their requests for the card to come out, the bookings in the first
    half were a farce. If they booked people for poncy tackles like that in
    Britain there would be just the keepers and the ref left!
    
    Both Leonardo and the U.S guy had to walk. I thought the U.S guy should
    have walked whether he had been booked or not, he was the last line in
    defence, it was a foul, he walks!!
    
    Tony
    
    

    Ref Leonardo
    
    Yup, he deserved to go but not the character assasination. Did anyone
    else notice that Ramos was also booked as he was carried off? I'm not
    sure if this was for the shirt pulling (a FIFA bookable offence) of for
    the kick he aimed at several Brazilians while he was lying on the
    floor. The replay clearly showed him looking up, and throwing most of
    his body and one boot upwards.
    
    As for Romario and Bebeto, it did get irritating but the ref was very
    inconsistent, Dunga should have got a card in the first half for a
    worse tackle than many that did get cards. Also, the Bebeto one, I have
    seen players sent off for blocks like that. Had Bebeto got through he
    was clear on goal - a red card?
    
    Anyway, I thought the Brazilians played exceptionally well. The
    Guardian man is moaning about poor passing but I thought their passing
    was superb. He also slags off their ball control which I just cannot
    believe! The other thing that impressed me was the way there was always
    a Brazilian following up whenever a player lost the ball.
    
    Presumably Leonardo will get a one, possibly two match ban. Hopefully
    he will be back as as well as being the best player so far, my wife
    also says he is by far the best looking!
    
    paul

Best comment about the rate of yellow cards was Keegan's:-
"That referee's pocket is like a toaster, every tackle - up pop's
 the  yellow card".

Consistency? Boy did I not like that!

Was it just my eyes deceiving me or did one Brazilian get booked for a tackle on
Cobi "no talent" Jones, that didn't even result in a free kick. It was near the
touchline, the Brazilian slid in, Jones hit the deck, the Brazilian got booked,
and the Americans got a corner. How can you get booked if you haven't even
fouled the guy?

Mike

    
    Re. 78
    
    Dave,
    	When I say they played with risk I was referring to the way they
    played out of awkward positions rather than hoof it away. Certain
    players were prepared to take men on one to one...that's what risk is.
    However you're right the USA team as a whole played within themselves
    but then again they knew they were playing a team whose players can do
    incredible and unpredictable things in a flash.
    
    Let's put it this way...the USA team didn't disgrace themselves and I
    for one enjoyed all their matches....
    
    Dezzz.  

    Ref the Cobi Jones booking
    
    I think that Jorgehino or Dunga was the player booked and that they
    were booked for an incident that happened before and the ref played
    advantage.
    
    It was a tackle near the half way line
    
    Paul;

    Oh well, it was good while it lasted.
    
    I can't say I'm happy with the manner in which we went out, but I'ld
    certainly rather lose to Holland than a lot of other teams. Admittedly
    I hated Holland and all their people for a couple of hours last night,
    but that was just during the game ;-)  In fact, I got in a big argument
    with a Dutch guy after the game. We sorted the argument out by deciding 
    that we would both buy a round !!! This turned out to be a bad idea,
    when one of the Dutch girls appeared a minute later with two pitchers of
    beer as a consolation for us Irish (to put that in context, a pitcher
    costs SFr 20 and she earns SFr 500 per MONTH as an au-pair). I actually
    got the feeling that their joy at getting to the quarter finals was
    almost being overshadowed by their sympathy for the Irish and
    especially Packie.
    
    My memories of this World Cup will be 
    
    	-  The victory over Italy
    	-  The celebrations after the Norway game, when we had qualified
    	-  The crack that we had with our Dutch friends during and
    	   especially after last night's game.
        -  Aldo and Ray Hougton's goals.
    	-  The quality of the football in a lot of the games and the
    	   entertainment provided by teams like South Korea.
    and
    	-  Packie Bonner's penalty save that got us to the Quarter Finals
    	   (I know it's the wrong WC, but I think it's what we should
    	   remember him for).
    
    So, no prizes for guessing who the Irish contingent in Bern will be
    supporting on Saturday night (in spite of the fact that I have Brazil
    in a sweepstake). We can loan you Phil Babb if you want to plug the gap
    in your defence against Romario. Of course if we meet you in the
    European Championships you'ld better look out ;-))))
    
    
    Jerry.
    
    
    PS Please excuse any spelling/typing errors - I was at a wake for most
    of the night ;-)                 

    
    The standard of refereeing has been sickening. People have been getting
    booked even when theyve taken the ball.
    As Keegan said last night. Football is a hard game.
    If you cant take the knocks you shouldnt be playing, after all, they
    get paid enough don't they?
    
    Having said that, this doesnt mean i'm condoning blatant assault...id
    just like to see the referees actually following the rules!
    
    Another thing that sends me into screaming fits at the telly is when
    they give throw ins when the ball hasnt COMPLETELY crossed the line.
    
    grr!
    
    Ian.

    
    The US player who was injured, Todd Ramos, suffered a grade-2
    concussion. The elbow was thrown hard and it was meant to injure. Ramos
    was unconscious for a bit. Once Ramos was out, any US offensive hope
    was gone. The US simply does not have many offensive players as yet,
    although they have learned to play well at the back. Their keeper,
    Meola, had a great cup.
    
    Still, I think it's been great progress. In the last cup we qualified
    on our own, and in this cup we went through to the second round. We
    have a ways to go yet, but there is visible progress.
                           

    
    Yet another display by the Irish of how not to play football, we
    learn things like.. not to pass the ball to an opposing foward and
    that a goalkeeper should always get his body behind the ball when
    catching it. 
    
    What made me laugh last night was Matthew Lorenzo on ITV, when he
    interviewed Jack Charlton, he said thanks for the entertainment
    that you have given us all over the last couple of weeks...????
    When did this happen then, I must have missed all the entertainment
    served up in all four of their games or maybe their just talking about
    Jacks little tiff with the FIFA official... That was the only
    entertainment that the Micks have served up during this World cup.
    
    At least now their out we dont have to listen the ITV/BBC news babbling
    on about how great the Irish supporters are and how they are the only
    ones who know how to have a good time. They cant be having that good a
    time... They aint smashed up any bars yet!  Good riddance to all the
    plastic Paddies that have come out of the woodwork in the last couple
    of weeks, you can now crawl back in again now.
    
    Andy..B
     

    
    Come on Andy, don't sit on the fence. Tell us how you really feel.
    
    Paul.

    re: .90 Zzzzzzz
    
    Missed the game (Ireland v Holland) yesterday; I'd have had to take the
    afternoon off to have got home in time, and I've already got a lot of
    time to make up. However, it sounds as though Ireland fought hard, but
    were probably beaten by "the better team on the day".
    
    Bit of a cliche that, but I can't help thinking that a four-yearly
    World Cup competition is hardly the most reliable indicator of who is
    the best team in the world. At best, it shows who is the strongest team
    over a 3-week period in June/July in an exageratedly hot climate.
    Maybe, if the tie had been played two months ago in (say) Stockholm,
    things might have been different. That said, Holland (who have looked
    distinctly shaky on numerous occasions since EC92) now look to be
    putting it together; and it has to be said that, of all the teams who
    have yet to win a World Cup, they are probably the most deserving in
    view of theor exploits in past competitions.
    
    High points for Ireland? a)McAteer (why didn't he start the game
    yesterday?) looks a great prospect. Same goes for Babb and Kelly. Most
    of the others have confirmed their international pedigree, with the
    possible exceptions of Irwin and Bonner. b)Ireland have proved beyond
    doubt that they have left route one football behind. And they remain a
    very tough team to beat. c)They got their first ever World Cup
    victory...and not a bad scalp, too!
    
    Plenty to build on...
    
    Dom 

    
    Andy,
       
    	what makes me laugh is the fact that you crawl predictably out of
    the woodwork every time Ireland get beaten. Thanks to Jack & his boys
    we haven't had to put up with any rubbish from you lately!
    
    JBG 

    Re: .92
    
>    very tough team to beat. c)They got their first ever World Cup
>    victory...and not a bad scalp, too!       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
     ^^^^^^^
    
    
    Dom,
    
    Don't tell me you've already forgotten Ireland v Romania in 1990. I
    know we only won on penalties, but we still won !
    
    Jerry.
    

    
    
    Leonardo had to go no doubt, it was sad because he has been one of the
    outstanding players in the tournanment so far. Anything but an elbow in
    the face he would have got away with.
    
    The best rule during these finals is the players being stretchered
    off if they don't stand up within a few seconds of going down. I notice
    that cheat Klinsman has managed to get back up this year unlike the
    last finals. If you are really injured you get treatment quick, if you
    are faking you are off the park. Diego Marawana also made speedy
    recoveries after some great dives.
    
    Ireland did great, the heat did not suit there style, once they drew a
    technically better team they were up against it as the match proved.
    
    
    
    
    

    
    Keegan was rabbiting on about that Centre-half Lalas from the USA side
    again. Watch out from a bid from Newcastle shortly. Would be
    interesting to see him and Peacock line up in their back four next
    season.  Help! Help! here come the bears!
    
    Andy

    whilst Andy B may not have couched his reply in the best diplomatic
    terms, he is right. How can a team that generally plays a containment
    game with  4-5-1 formation hope to get anywhere? If you lose a goal you
    haven't the players or the wherewithall to fight back. Ireland were
    well beaten; it easily could have been 5-1 or 5-2 yesterday.
    
    Norway were rightly castigated for being negative but Ireland aren't that
    much different.

    Jerry, 
    No, I hadn't forgotten, but...well, winning on penalties is not quite
    the same, is it? OK, call it 1.5 World Cup victories ;-)
    
    Dom

    
    Re. Alexei Lalas
    
    	He wouldn't be so bad if he didn't go out of his way to look
    like Bily Conolly! 8-)
    
    JBG

    
    Re .97
    
    Simon,
    
    	are you seriously suggesting that Ireland played for a draw
    yesterday???
    
>>    Norway were rightly castigated for being negative but Ireland aren't that
>>    much different.
        	
    	The Ireland team I watched this WC did all they could with what
    they had. They badly need a consistent goal-scorer up front but they
    pretty much dropped the long ball game in favour of some neat passing.
    They had the Dutch under pressure for 805 of the match yesterday which
    I personally woulnd define as negative.
    
    JBG

I think it's Tab Ramos rather than Todd. If he was unconscious after Leonardo
elbowed him in the shoulder how did he subsequently manage to kick half a dozen
Brazilian players? Terry Butcher would have got up and carried on.

Mike

    
    Re.100
    
    There is no way that Ireland had Holland under pressure for 80% of the
    game, thats the best laugh Ive had since Packie's attempt at
    goalkeeping last night....
    
    Holland dominated the first half, Ireland the second...but as far as
    being under pressure, Holland apart from a few occasion's looked in
    control to me.
    
    Dave...

     
    I know all you Irish/Plastics are all a it down today because
    of Ireland being knocked out, but what do you expect if you dont
    try and win games. I think Jack should give up now because he aint
    gonna do any better with that bunch of clowns.
    
    Andy..B
    

I don't see why people think Leonardo was at all hard-done-by. It
doesn't matter whether he intended to make contact, or whether he
intended contact with Ramos' head or chest or some other bodypart. 
He lashed out at an opponent --> he gets sent off.

If this is accepted as a justifiable reaction to every incident of 
shirt-pulling, then there will be a lot of one-eyed footballers
about pretty soon.

Regarding the frequency of yellow cards, I wonder whether the 
comparative cleanness of this competition has been at all related
to the eagerness of referees to book people. This competition has
been relatively trouble free, Leonardo's assault being the only 
really bad incident I can think off. In previous years we would
be complaining about the inability of referees to cope with such
things, and games getting out of hand. Isn't it possible that 
there is some relationship there? Or have footballers spontaneously 
reformed themselves? 

All these bookings are certainly tiresome, but not as
tiresome as the lengthy breaks we used to see caused by vicious
tackles, theatrical injuries, and acrimonious disputes between
players and referees as tempers routinely flared. 

    

     Leonardo didn't just lash out,If you watch it from the reverse you see
    that he clenched his fist as he swings his elbow back.So he deliberately 
    elbowed Ramos.I thought that Brazil were very unsporting,Which was very
    disappointing to see.

     SCott

    
    I cannot believe that no one has mentioned Jimmy Hill.
    
    WHAT was the man wearing last night??? 
    
    He looked like the caretaker out of Grange Hill!
    
    ;-)
    
    Ian.

>================================================================================
>Note 415.103                   WC '94 second round                    103 of 104
>PEKING::BAREFIELDA "BLUE IS THE COLOUR"               8 lines   5-JUL-1994 13:54
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                            -< PACKIE OOP'S BONNER >-
>
>     
>    I know all you Irish/Plastics are all a it down today because
>    of Ireland being knocked out, but what do you expect if you dont
>    try and win games. I think Jack should give up now because he aint
>    gonna do any better with that bunch of clowns.
>    
>    Andy..B
>    
>

	It was a great match and the way the loss was taken was good. 
	At least we know that Irish supporters win or lose don't break
	up places. 

	Thanks be to God England did not qualify, the highlight of the
	World Cup would have been the continual news around the world
	of hooliganism.

	Sl�n Leat.

	El Gringo

    
    I reckon Jimmy Hill has gone dulally. He had an old tramps coat on last
    night, (as mentioned).
    
    What's next? A tea cosy on his head?
    
    Tony
    
    

    
>>	      -< IS PACKIE WEARING A BULLET PROOF VEST?????? >-
    
    	Is that supposed to be funny Barefield?? Why don't you pack you're
    Ireland batting in. This whole conference is about football but every
    time you put a note in it you aim to provoke and abuse. The Irish I've
    met this morning are sad to be out but proud that their team never gave
    up. And as for an Ireland game being boring you have a very short
    memory mate 'cos you've clearly forgotten the apology for football
    which England played in the '92 Euro-champs.
    
    JBG

Obviously the moderator is still at the World Cup having a good time.

Amazing how people from the weaker countries that didn't qualify
have as little to contribute to debate on football as their teams
do to the World Cup finals.  Back to football please.

Beidh la eile ag an paorach,
Shane

    Re:
    
>   Here we go again, you lot always come back to the same old thing about
>   English Hooliganism. That ones about as boring as an Ireland game.
>   Your only glad were not there because we'd win it under SIR TERRY...
    
    
    Andy,
    
    Cast your mind back to your original intrusion into this lively and
    level-headed topic discussing the second round of WC 94. In it you 
    said 
    
>    At least now their out we dont have to listen the ITV/BBC news babbling
>    on about how great the Irish supporters are and how they are the only
>    ones who know how to have a good time. They cant be having that good a
>    time... They aint smashed up any bars yet!
    
    
    Morons like you are a very good example of the reasons that English
    football fans have a bad reputation around the world. I really don't
    give a toss what you think of our team, our manager, our tactics, our
    country or anything else. The only thing that I do care about is the
    fact that you and your equals make it more difficult for the genuine
    well-behaved English football fans to travel to support their team.
    Thank God, nobody is ever likely to confuse you for an Irish fan.
    
    But anyway, you probably don't care what I think, assuming you can
    understand what I'm talking about, so I guess that makes this whole
    exercise pointless.
    
    Jerry.

    Didn't I hear someplace that FIFA gets X-amount of $$$$ for each 
    YELLOW/RED card?... Hum! that's a quick and simple way of filling
    the Kitty....
    
    NP 

    
    	Sorry Shane, didn't mean to be boring. I'll go back to admiring my
    Sheep postcard! 8-)
    
    JBG

    There's a great commercial being shown on TSN (The Sports Network) in
    Canada for Canadian Airlines flights to England. It shows some very
    glum looking people in England watching a world cup game and ends with 
    the caption 'Misery Loves Company'. Reading Mr. Barefields comments I
    now know what it means. 
    
    Talk about sour grapes!!!
    
    Gerry L.

    .115
    
    arf arf arf
    
    On a different subject....
    I heard a rumour that Charlton donated the 100K raised in Ireland to
    the family of the dead Colombian player. Any truth in this?...Hell of a
    nice thing to do.
    
    Ray....

    
    Calm down, Calm down,...
    
    O.k lets talk about football, ( so that leaves Ireland out of it)..
    
    Brazil look to be the better side by far in this world cup, but you
    cant write off the Germans who dont look at their best at the moment.
    I can see these two making it to the final and the Germans winning
    1-0 by a penalty.
    
    
    Andy..B

    
    Can someone with more energy than me start up the relevant quarter
    final discussion notes.
    
    I thank you.
    
    Tony
    
    

    
    Can't understand why the Irish folks in here give him (Andy) the time
    of day. His attempts at provocation are as subtle as a flying mallet.
    Certainly the "anti-Ingerland" lobby don't get nearly as much attention
    when the boot's on the other foot...
    
    Then again, a note like .108 is inexcusable in any circumstances and I
    would hope it disappears for good once the mods are back (is there no
    "stand-in" mod?).
    
    An Impartial Plastic

    any idea when the kick-off times are for tonight.
    
    I'd be suprised if Italy lose, the always seem have the knack
    of coming good at the right time. If Baggio hit any sort of
    decent form he could be like Paulo Rossi was in '82.
    
    In the other game, I'd say Bulgaria will beat Mexico.
    
    Jim.

    
    
    Unlucky Ireland. They were beaten by a superior team on the day.
    Good show throughout the cup. Well done.

Italy - Nigeria  2 - 1 after extra time
Mexico - Bulgaria 1 - 1 after 90 minutes and extra time, Bulgaria wins with
                        penalty shoot-out.

Awful performance by both referees they should get suspended for life!

Now 7 european countries are in the quarters not bad considering there are 
eight places :-)

    I heard that the Mexico v Bulgaria match finished 3-1 on penalties. Is
    this correct? Did Mexico really miss (at least) 3 penalties?
    
    Dave.

    
    Re .120
    
    Hey Jim,
    
    	can I have some of what your drinking too please....
    
    
>>    I'd be suprised if Italy lose, the always seem have the knack
>>    of coming good at the right time. If Baggio hit any sort of
>>    decent form he could be like Paulo Rossi was in '82.
    
>>    In the other game, I'd say Bulgaria will beat Mexico.
    
  	You didn't have any money on that by any chance??
    
    	For those who didn't already know, Italy beat Nigeria 2 :1 with a
    R. Baggio penalty in the 1st period of extra time.
	Nigeria took the lead early in the 1st half and Italy looked in no
    mood to make any comeback. I think McFearsome described them about as
    appetising as stale-pizza! Anyway, Italy looked to be on their way out
    with Nigeria defending well and attacking on the break. The ref. was a
    bit eager with the yellow cards again (I think he gave 8 or 9 in this
    game) although he was sharp enough to punish some Italians for
    repeatedly falling down. Either they'd finished off the remains of
    Jack's Guinness before the game, or they've had some coaching from
    Klinsmann! Baggio tripped over so many blades of grass it was
    laughable.
    	I think the repeated play acting by the Italians led to the
    ref. making a big mistake. Early in the 2nd half Zola was brought on
    (giving an attacking lineup of R.Baggio, D.Baggio -on for 2nd half-
    Massaro & Zola) but after about 10 minutes he made a break into the
    Nigerian penalty area & then went looking for the penalty. The referee
    ignored his protesting and in frustration Zola jumped up and ran at the
    defender who was in the process of clearing the ball. From sidewards,
    Zola managed to jump in with two feet, between the defender & ball.
    From the TV replay, its not clear whether any contact was made with the
    play but if so it was probably very light. However, the defender went
    down "in agony" and as the tackle looked bad, and appeared to be a
    reactionto the not-given-penalty, it made the ref. see red and thats
    what he immediately pulled on Zola.
    	Italy were then in very big trouble, looking very tired. R.Baggio
    started falling down with cramp etc. Nigeria were looking more & more
    dangerous and on one break Maldini pulled the Nigerian down when he was
    more or less past him. I though he should definitely have got the red
    card as he was level with the only other defender back and the Nigeria
    had beaten them both. However, perhaps mindful of his harsh descision
    earlier, the ref only gave Maldini a yellow.
    	As the game draw to a close, Italy summoned up the last reserves of
    energy and Nigeria seemed to sit back a bit. One lapse of concentration
    let in R.Baggio and with 2 minutes to go he poked the equaliser into
    the far corner.
    
    	Even in extra time Nigeria could have won it back with some
    incredible chances. The ref. finally relented to the Italian's repeated
    requests for penalties when the Italian chasing a lob was flattened in
    the area as he jumped with his marker.
    
    	All in all an exciting game which probably took years off Saachi!
    It could have really gone either way and the Nigerians must be very
    disappointed. Still, the 1/4 final lines up Italy against Spain which
    should be another cracker but Italy will really have to improve if they
    want to go further.
    
    JBG 

     I've never seen anything like the refereeing in last night's games, it
    was unbelievable.
    
    Credit to Italy, they come through again, they could even win it if
    they start to play well to add to their fighting spirit.
    
    The ref in the Bulgaria v Mexico game completley ruined a great game,
    what a goal by stoikov.....
    
    Dave... 

    

     The first sending off in the B v M Game is the worst refereeing 
    decision I have ever seen.

     now there is a man who really is not of this planet.


    SCott

    
    Mexico Vs Bulgaria
    
    	I watched the first 60 minutes of this game which took us to the
    start of the 2nd half after the Mexicans broke one of the net supports
    on their goal (one of them fell into the net & the thing collapsed) and
    the Americans turned up with a complete replacement goal-posts/nets
    structure which had to be carried from the other end of the pitch (most
    of the way by 2 groundsmen!). The ref added 7 minutes on for this
    entertainment (how did that Scottish ref get away with 8 minutes in
    Korea vs Bolivia???).
    
    	Down to what I saw of the game....
    
    	Mexico came out looking to attack from the start and had Bulgaria
    underpressure immediately. Around 7 minutes one of the Bulgarian
    mid-field (they only had 2 defenders according to the commentator!)
    threaded a long ball through the defense for Stoichov(sp) to run on to.
    The covering defender had 2 or 3 yards start but when they reached the
    ball more or less together Stoichov was going like a steam train. He
    pusehd the ball on and from 30 odd yards rifled a shot into the top
    corner with Campos half-way out & going down.
    	After 20 minutes Mexico got a very soft penalty when the ball got
    stuck between the thighs of Alvres(sp) & the Bulgarian defender.
    Alvres tried to push through the defender & fell over. I think the
    defender also go a yellow card for this.
    	1st half finished 1 : 1 and early in the 2nd half the same defender
    got a 2nd yellow for the finest of pulls on Alvres's shirt. Another
    very harsh descision. Anyone know how many cards were dished out in the
    end? Anyway, I went to bed & missed the next sending-off / extra-time 
    / penalties so someone else will have to comment.
    
    JBG

    Its not often I find myself agreeing with Jimmy the Chin but I thought
    his comments in the break before extra time in Mexico v Bulgaria quite
    poignant. He was saying how it was viewed as a disgrace to be sent off
    in a World Cup and that in a few years no one wil remember how awful
    the ref was, just that the two players went off. 
    
    The decision on the Bulgarian was truely dreadful, the foul didn't
    exist in anything but the mind of the referee. It was ironic that the
    one foul that possibly warranted a red card when the Mexican pulled
    down the little blond Blugarian when he was clear on goal only got
    yellow.
    
    Before Mr Al Shareef got started with his crazy penalty decision it had
    the makings of a really good game but the second half was totally flat
    as the players were scared to go near each other.
    
    The decision in the Italy game was just as bad. The Nigerian should
    have got a card for faking injury rather than Zola getting the red. The
    ref in that game, Brizio Carter, was also the ref who sent off the
    Bolivian for breathing on Matthaus and Song of Cameroon for a rash
    rather than viscious tackel on Bebeto.
    
    It seems that many of the refs from S America and the lesser developed
    football countries such as Syria have no concept of interpretation of
    rules, just application. While the carping on how Philip Don had only
    had one game went on a bit too long, I do believe that European refs
    take a more rational view in situations like this, using judgement
    rather blind instinct.
    
    If FIFA want football to be a non contact sport than the crowds will
    wither with the game.
    
    Paul 

    
    	One thing about the Nigerians which is stuck in my mind (& I need to
    get it out so I can put something else there 8-) is their resilience to
    tackles. Where the Italians would fall over if you so much as looked at
    the, you could chop at the Nigerians all day and they still kept on their
    feet, kept the ball & kept their chances open.
    	Admittedly a few were prone to lay prone when fouled but this is
    probably something they learned from their opponents! Probably the most
    dangerous foul last night went completely unpunished when an Italian
    with his foot up caught the Nigerian goal-scorer right where it hurts
    most. His reaction was a bit delayed but I know exactly how it feels!
    
    JBG

    Agreed about the refs. They were pathetic and should be sent 
    home. It was as if they wanted to impress the FIFA boys by
    flashing as many cards as possible. Imagine being a player and
    getting sent off for nothing, if this continues the whole cup
    could become a farce.... the Italy game was exciting, Baggio
    came good at the end. You could hear the screams from Sacci
    in the last ten minutes.... he was going crazy... if Nigeria
    had been more positive when Italy had 10 men maybe they could
    have held on. Well done Italy, they never stopped going and
    overall deserved to win.
    
    I missed the penalty shoot out, but saw the Bulgarian goal.
    What a shot by Stoikevitch....
    
    Jim.
    
    
    
    

    match: Bul. vs Mex. ( a game ruined by FIFA )
    
    It seems that we're watching the ref's solo instead of the game.
    
    Besides, I agree with the points in .128:
    
    >If FIFA want football to be a non contact sport than the crowds will
    >wither with the game.
    
    Refs in the recent games seems doing their jobs with a lot of
    pressures. 
    
    What do the sports news in US say about this match ? FIFA should have 
    pressure too !!
    
     
    

    did anyone else see the Bulgarian defender getting a pervy feel off one
    of his team-mates during the celebrations after the game?...I think
    Sepp Bladder should do something about this....after all, football is a
    man's game, is it not?...and children might be watching....
    
    Ray....

    Re: Being sent off for picking a piece of fluff off an opponent's
        jersey.
    
    
    Two points:
    
    1. If either of these refs were involved in the tournament in which JBG
    and I played two weeks ago, then at least 80% of our team, 100% of the
    Mexican lookalikes, and 125% of the Welsh Wizards (dirty buggers those
    Welsh ;-)) would have been sent off in the first 15 minutes.
    
    2. If FIFA have any of what that Nigerian bloke almost lost, then
    they'll ensure that the Bulgarian who was sent off last night is
    allowed to play in the next round, and that the ref gets a ten-year
    suspension. 
    
             
    Jerry.

    
    I think they should recind Maradona's suspension.
    
    I dont think he was doing as many dangerous drugs as that referee last
    night!
    
    Ian. 

    Ian,
    
    I don't think it was the drugs that caused him the biggest problems,
    moreso the fact that after taking the drugs he stuck his head up his
    a**e and proceeded to referee the game in this position ;-)
    
    Jerry.

    
    Italy - Nigeria
    
     To be very objective about the fouls and the compared Italian/Nigerian 
     behaviour, it should be mentioned that:
    
    - Even if Italians fell down in some occasions, they had to suffer 
      numerous fouls in the range 40/30 yards from the Nigerian goal. 
      Nobody noted the indredible - light but genuine - faults which led 
      - or not - to fouls.
      The French commentator also mentioned that the Nigerian committed 
      47 (believe me it's a lot) fouls versus Argentina. 
      Don't have the statistics for this match, but watch for them.
    
    - Before the action where Zola was sent off where the penalty was not
      obvious, the referee forgot a penalty in a much more obvious
      situation, where Baggio was pushed down when heading home.
    
      In fact, even if the Italians were not brilliant, they did not stop 
      attacking all over the match and deserved the victory.
      The Nigerians were very disappointing, defending most of the time
      although 2/3 good attacks.
    
      PYV
    
      
    

    
    I am utterly disappointed. Italy didn't deserve to go through. 
    
    First they kick Amokachi and Amunike out of the match, two leading
    figures in the Nigerian team, and then they win on penalties. 
    
    And don't forget Yekini breaking free on is way to the goal, just to
    be pulled down.
    
    Shame!
    
    Heiko
    
    PS: Admittedly, the red card for Zola was nonsense, and for the
    Nigerians, they've only managed to show their brilliance once and
    played three less inspired matches. (but then, how many good matches
    did ITA, GER and ESP show ?)

>       <<< Note 415.132 by IRNBRU::HOWARD "June18-94, the Italian Job" >>>
>
>    did anyone else see the Bulgarian defender getting a pervy feel off one
>    of his team-mates during the celebrations after the game?...I think
    
    Yes! It appeared that the skillful ginger Bulgar was playfully
    tampering with his mates ringpiece. Whatever happened to the good old
    fashioned celebratory kiss/cuddle?
    
    Ian.

    
    Well, Italy stuck to the task and pulled off a miraculous victory
    yesterday (shades of England-Cameroon - oops, aplogies to the Mac and
    O' Noters!), but I can't help thinking that it was Nigeria that lost the 
    match, rather than Italy that won it.
    
    The Nigerians were absolutely inept. Occasional flashes of individual
    skill (usually marred by selfish dribbling)...and that was it. I didn't
    even see any sign of their exraordinary athletic prowess. They've lost
    a big chance to make a name for themselves in the world arena and they
    may even have ruined Africa's hopes of having a fourth team in the next
    World Cup. Quite frankly, I have to say that, IMO, African football has
    not made great progress since the last WC; they're still too naive and
    seem to lack fighting spirit when the chips are down. Marocco were very
    unlucky, but for all their attacking ideas, would you ever put money on
    them to beat (say) Germany? 
    
    Certainly, Nigeria were unrecognisable last night from the team that
    beat Bulgaria 3-0. Lethargic, lacking in concentration, imprecise in
    their passing, etc. I can condone Arsenal defending for 80 minutes
    against Parma in the European Cup Winners' Cup Final; it's not
    spectacular to watch, but at least Arsenal are playing to their
    strengths, and Parma probably wouldn't have scored if they'd continued
    all night. Nigeria's defence, on the other hand, was pitiful - one of
    the most vulnerable in this World Cup.
    
    All of which was manna from heaven for Italy, who looked dead ordinary
    themselves. The Italian public were just preparing to lynch Sacchi when
    Baggio equalised. The rest was almost predictable, and Italy are in the
    quarter finals. Deservedly so, in terms of last night's game, but
    they've still only played 20 minutes of good football in this World
    Cup. 
    
    I went into the centre of Milan after the game with the wife (pleased
    as punch!) and friends and the chaos had to be seen to be believed. One
    huge traffic jam, dancing, singing, bathing in the fountains, etc. I
    almost expected to get stopped by the police for not carrying an
    Italian flag, but stuck to my guns. But if they so much as reach the
    final, I'm getting the midnight train out of here ;-)
    
    One minte they're threatening to shoot Baggio, Sacchi, Maldini and the
    rest of them. Then two quick goals and it's: "Forza Italia! Forza
    Azurri! Forza Gina Lollobrigida, Leonardo da Vinci, Michelangelo,
    Umberto Eco...". Woe is me - I'm usually pretty objective, but the
    Italian press/commentators/sporting public would be too much for
    anyone.
    
    Dom

    Did you see the way the Italian players were dropping towards the end
    of the match with cramp? These so called proffesional players from the
    worlds best league,these who earn millions every year,who get bought
    for tens of millions,Baggio voted as the best player in the world in
    '93.After a real game of football they couldn't handle it,and rolled
    about with tired legs.It just goes to show what they really
    are,pampered pansies who wouldn't last two minutes in a real league.
    Give 'em a hard days work thats what I say.
                                                          
    

    Yes but they use up a lot of energy in their leg muscles by diving to
    the floor whenever anyone touches them.
    
    Rich.

    Re: .140,141
    Jokes apart, the thing that kills me is the crap dished up by the
    Italian press regarding the legendary "Mediterranean diet" (read
    "pasta". 
    
    As we all know, Italian players are the most professional, intelligent,
    tactically aware and ingenious beings on the planet. But we mere
    mortals sometimes forget that they're also light years ahead of
    everyone else in terms of training techniques, diet, etc. Which makes
    it all the more extraordinary that Italy seem to be the only team that
    conk out with cramp, muscle fatigue, and respiratory problems after an
    hour of every encounter.
    
    Maybe even the "Gazetta dello Sport" will bury that one after this
    World Cup ;-)
    
    DOm
    
    

    
    RE .previous notes
             
    Is this a football conference or a conference against Italia ?
    
    Domenico, my advise is to take an holiday and stay in England until the
    end of WC (or when Italy will be defeated, let's hope as late as
    possible)
    
    ciao
    Giuseppe
    
    P.S.
    Dom, do you remember me ? We worked in the same "FT 117" building some
    years ago.
    
    
    

    Ciao Giuseppe,
    
    Come va la vita? 
    
    What can I say - it's difficult to be objective in these situations. My
    quarrel is with those people (mainly of the fairer sex) who watch
    football for a fortnight every 4 years, and then proceed to insult
    Austrians, Paraguayans and anyone else who dares to threaten the
    supremacy of the "amatissima nazionale". Throw in the Italian press and
    the most partizan commentators in the world, and you've got quite a
    cocktail. 
    
    Don't take it to heart - I'm sure you don't fall into the above
    category ;-)
    
    Dom
              

>    It seems that many of the refs from S America and the lesser developed
>    football countries such as Syria have no concept of interpretation of
>    rules, just application. While the carping on how Philip Don had only
>    had one game went on a bit too long, I do believe that European refs
>    take a more rational view in situations like this, using judgement
>    rather blind instinct.

Hmmm... let's see about European referees.  They sent the Swiss (from the
Germany vs Belgium) and the Italian (Spain and Switzerland) home for NOT
calling the game correctly.

If I am not mistaking the other two referees that were sent home right away
from the 1st round were also Europeans.

Carlos

    In the first round Nigeria Greece game, Nigeria's speed was a definite
    factor.  Italy neutralized any speed advantage Nigeria might have had
    and put together a solid three man attack even while playing 1 down. 
    Even more impressive was the Italy had 6 or 7 players back in the
    defensive third on every Nigerian counterattack.
    
    My son worked in the Nigerian locker room....comment from the coach at
    half time:
    
    	- "I don't want to win the Sportsmanship Cup....I want to win the
    other one.....tackle hard, avoid the yellow cards..."
    
    The paper today alluded to dissention on the Nigerian squad....more to
    come.
    

    
    An update for those who think too many red cards were handed out...
    Tab Ramos (I got his name wrong in a prior note but Todd is a common
    name over here and Tab isn't) has suffered a "slightly" fractured
    skull, according to today's Boston Globe, and is unlikely to play for
    at least 6 months. He was injured in the US v Brazil game. He was
    elbowed in the head. 
    
    Before I get too much flak for this, I am not complaining about the
    outcome of the game, which the Brazilians clearly deserved, but I am 
    making a point for carding flagrant injurious offenses.
    
    Mike

    Mike,
    
    I'm sure the brazilian regrets the incident, and I don't think too many
    people were arguing about that particular sending-off. The point being
    made, was that while it was a deliberate elbowing incident, it was not
    an deliberate elbow to the head - i.e. he didn't set out to fracture
    the other guys skull. As a result, while he deserved to be sent off,
    there's no need to hang, draw and quarter him !
    
    On the other hand, I don't think there was much risk of anyone ending
    up with a fractured skull in the incident which resulted in the
    Bulgarian defender being sent off, although he may have pulled a thread
    in that poor Mexican guy's shirt. In fact, in this particular instance,
    the only person in any danger of getting his skull fractured was the 
    referee ;-))).
    
    Here's hoping that Tab Ramos makes a full and speedy recovery.
    
    Jerry.

    re: .148
    
    Couldn't agree more, Jerry. You saved me writing a lengthy note!
    Actually, my brother told me that Kevin Keegan got a lot of flak (from
    the tabloids?) for making a similar point on TV.
    
    Dom

    Dom,
    
    Kevin Keegan made a bit of a pillock of himself by trying to imply that
    Leonardo was sinned against by some serious shirt pulling and appeared
    to be trying to justify the brazilians reaction. KK's mouth just seemed 
    to be digging him deeper the more he tried to make his point.
    
    Somebody must have got hold of him and slapped him about the face at
    half time because he came back and basically admitted he has been
    talking bo__ocks !
    
    Cheers,
    
    Andy  

    Point taken, Andy - although my brother implied that KK was justifying
    the Brazilian's frustration rather than the violent elbowing. To put an
    English angle on it (for the benefit of our Scottish noters ;-)),
    Paul Gascoigne would probably have reacted much like Leonardo, but even
    a Gary Lineker would not have accepted it with a smile. A four game ban
    sounds about right to me.
    
    > < Kevin Keegan talks nonsense ! >-
    So whatever happened to the McEwan's Alliance? ;-)
    
    Dom    

And Leonardo has been banned for FOUR games and fined. What a waste. Maybe 
he'll learn, and maybe this is the start (at last) of trying to get elbowers 
out of the game. A pity we didn't have Fashanu rather than Keegan commentating 
on that indident!

grahame

    If I was the Italian Coach I'd get one of my players to walk up
    to the referee and butt him at the beginning of the match.
    Now that the italians would only have ten men for the whole match
    they'd romp home and secondly the referee would make better decisions
    throughout the game due to his impaired vision. 8^)
    
    
    Jim

    re last
    
    Jim, 
    
    	Don't forget the only 2 games Italy has won so far are those when
    they were only 10 players on the field... (Norway, Nigeria)
    
    	Maybe they're just too good to bother playing when sides are even
    
    	Eric

    
    
    With ten or eleven Italians on the pitch, the Furia of the Spanish lads
    will baffle the so called doctors of the knowledge of soccer or in
    simple terms football.
    
    The future champions of the world will overcame the half-hearted
    italians, with or without the Baggios.
    Caminero will have Baggio in his pocket throughout  the entire match...
    
    Espa�a campeones del mundo.....
    
    
    salud
    Juan.

    
    re 154
    
     The reason why they play better when they are 10 is
     very simple : they can play out of SACCHI's schemas.
    
    

    re -1
    
    Didn't we hear similar noises before a certain match between the
    Spanish and Italian champions a couple of months ago??
    
    BTW I hope you're right.
    
    Paul.
    

    re .155
    
    So you think the Spanish might win then???  I just hate it when
    people don't make their point of view clear. 8-)))))
    
    Jim

    >With ten or eleven Italians on the pitch, the Furia of the Spanish lads
    >will baffle the so called doctors of the knowledge of soccer or in
    >simple terms football.
    
    >The future champions of the world will overcame the half-hearted
    >italians, with or without the Baggios.
    >Caminero will have Baggio in his pocket throughout  the entire match...
    
    Talk of courting disaster! It's curious how every time a manager
    engages in this sort of premature celebration, his team immediately
    come to grief on the pitch (although I doubt whether many of the
    Italian national team have access to this notesfile!). 
    
    Cases in point: Cruyff's ridiculous outbursts prior to Milan v.
    Barcellona; the Norwegian manager (on numerous occasions); Westerhoff
    (the Dutch manager of Nigeria), prior to Nigeria v. Italy. Each time,
    they've managed to ruin their team's excellent chances of victory by
    galvanizing the opposition. At least this would appear to be the case.
    
    One manager I respect very much is Arrigo Sacchi. He always distances
    himself from the arrogant statements of the Italian press and,
    especially, Mattarese, president of the Italian football federation
    (apparently, Mattarese's first words on arriving in the U.S. were:
    "It'll be an Italy-Brazil final"...). Sacchi is always gracious in
    victory and sporting in defeat, never looks for excuses, and almost
    always talks sound sense.
    
    He's also a great student of football, maintaining that there's
    something to be learned from every footballing school. He attended the
    African Nations Cup and devours videos of football from all over the
    globe. After Italy's victory against Nigeria, he was quick to point out
    that the Nigerians probably looked lethargic because they'd had two
    days less to rest before the game, and he also underlined that Nigeria
    lost the use of two of their best players before the game was an hour
    old (he was also able to name them, which is more than I can do at the
    moment!)
    
    Needless to say, a survey after the game indicated that 84% of Italians
    think he should be replaced ;-)
    
    Dom
    
     
    

On to the next round.  Spain are my dark horses to progress all the way.
Italy may have their name on the Cup with their survival to date, but
I feel their luck may run out against Spain.

I will watch Saturday's game with a bunch of Brazilian friends - definitely
one for the bodhran even if we aren't playing the samba!  The heat may
catch up on Holland here although I fancy them to pinch a goal and put
up the shutters.

The draw looks very lobsided with Germany favourites from the other half.

Shane

Re .159,

Yes maybe, Dom, but how has he manged to turn the best footballers in Europe 
into a very average team?

g

    with reference to comments about nationalistic press in Italy. I think
    we all suffer with that sort of problem. I have had to watch most of
    the matches on BBC and ITV and have found that both , but particularly
    the ITV commentators to be biased, always harping back to what a shame
    it is about England not being there and making fun of surnames of
    african, Arab, and far eastern players.
    
    Once comment to ask how Don Howe thought Saudi Arabian players would cope 
    in England and he said something like it wouldn't work as they would be
    disappearing during the day to pray.
    
    I have even renamed Brian Moore, Brian O'Moore, such has been his all 
    of a sudden god like devotion to Jack Charlton and his team. Every game 
    instead of concentrating about the match being played we get rammed down 
    our throat THE LATEST from the Irish camp. 
    
    BYW. I am not anti-Irish, it just gets very boring after a while.
    
    Antony

    re: .161
    
    >Yes maybe, Dom, but how has he manged to turn the best footballers in 
    >Europe into a very average team?
    
    Fair question, Graham, although I think your starting point is a bit
    questionable. Michel Platini was quoted the other day as saying that he
    thinks Sacchi is a great manager, but he hasn't really got the raw
    materials to work with. He said that Italy have 3 excellent players:
    Baggio, who I personally think is the footballing version of the
    "Emperor's New Clothes" (but that's my opinion); Maldini, who's not
    100% fit; and Baresi, who's out of the World Cup. The rest aren't bad,
    but they're nothing to write home about either.
    
    When Sacchi was manager of AC Milan, he had Van Basten, Gullit and
    Rijkaard to save the day whenever things got sticky. Signori, Albertini
    and Dino Baggio aren't quite the biscuit, so to speak; competent, but
    nothing more. Also, look at the influence of Savicevic and Desailly on
    Milan's victory in this year's European Cup Final...
    
    Sure, Italy could still win the World Cup - but they'll have to work
    their butts off to do it. The other factor that works against Sacchi is
    that his brand of football is light years away from what most Italian
    club sides play (except Milan). Players like Baggio and Signori (and
    several others) often seem to be baffled at what Sacchi asks them to do
    in training. A long weekend every month is probably sufficient for
    players to learn Sacchi's methods...but not for them to become second
    nature.
    
    Actually, my praise of Sacchi was directed more at the man than the
    manager. I admire his humility and sporting attitude, given the
    expectations that the press/public in Italy have of the national team.
    A TV journalist asked him yesterday whether he thought Spain's extra
    rest days were unfair advantage for Saturday's match. Sacchi's answer?
    "They deserve it - they placed much better in their group than we did
    in ours"!
    
    Dom

    
    	re .162...
    
    	We both agree what a numpty Howe is, Antony. He has been such a
    	berk on the ITV WC show that now I switch to sound=off during the
    	half time break when he's on. And not only is he widely regarded
    	(in England only) as one of England's top coaches, he has coached 
    	England and top league sides. Frightening when you hear his opinions 
    	of how to play the game...
    
    	Both tv channels have been in competition to see who could try 
    	hardest to crawl up the Irish "back-passage". I award ITV as the
    	winner, but the Beeb pushed them all the way ;-)
    
    	You're right, though - the condescending way they keep saying
    	"Yes, but he wouldn't show up on a cold mid-November Wednesday
    	night in Huddersfiled..." blah blah....
    
     	Sensible European countries take a time-out in the middle of winter. 
    	Their skillful players don't get asked to wade through 6 inches of 
    	swamp or skate around on the frozen tundra.
    
    	No wonder we can't compete, when you remember Don Howe's coaching
    	the national team again..
    
    	Andy.
                                            

    	>No wonder we can't compete, when you remember Don Howe's coaching
    	>the national team again..
    
    Ye gods...I didn't know that!
    
    So where's the 2006 World Cup being held? ;-)
    
    

    
    I've been on hoilday for the last week, once I've caught up on all the
    replies I'll add my comments..
    
    One thing though, what the f**k was Packie Bonner doing ?. (-:
    
    Neil.

    
    Hey Neil,
    
    	pity you couldn't afford a couple of months off, eh??
    
    JBG 8-)