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Conference trucks::football;1

Title: Soccer Football Conference
Notice:Don't forget your season ticket.....
Moderator:MOVIES::PLAYFORD
Created:Thu Aug 08 1991
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:608
Total number of notes:85903

297.0. "U.S Cup 1993" by AIMTEC::WICKS_A (Alphatraz - Coming Summer 93) Mon May 17 1993 00:39

    3 weeks today U.S Cup 93 begins. Following on from last year's
    tournament betwwen the U.S, Eire, Italy and Portugal this year
    we have U.S, Brazil, Germany and England. 
    
    The schedule is:
    sunday June 6th		U.S v Brazil		New Haven, Connecticut
    Wednesday June 9th          U.S v England		Foxboro, Mass
    Thursday June 10th		Brazil v Germany        Washington D.C
    Sunday June 13th		England v Brazil	Washington D.C
    Sunday June 13th		U.S v Germany		Chicago, IL
    Saturday June 19th		Germany v England	Detroit, MI
    
    I'll be at the first 4 games, so like last year i'll provide match
    reports, gossip and bar reviews (for Irish supporters coming over
    next year) but let's use this note to discuss
    o team selections (not just England's please)
    o how the tournament is reported overseas i.e the Sun headlines
      like "Gazza fries Frankfurters!!"
    o TV coverage both here and overseas.
    o anything else 
    
    Oh and in case you're wondering I can't be at the 5th game because
    it's over 1000 miles away and at the same time as the 4th and i'm
    passing on the final game as i refuse to go and see Football played
    indoors.
    
    so now the football season's over let's concentrate on this tournament.
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks 
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297.1Yes Cinderalla you shall go to the ballAIMTEC::WICKS_AAlphatraz - Coming Summer 93Mon May 17 1993 00:5138
    and i'll start ...
    
    yesterday in the mail I got a letter from World Cup Washington  Host
    Committee inviting me to "The Soccer Ball"
                 
    yes I know what you're thinking but apparently it's a Ball in the other
    sense of the word i.e Party/Reception and will be held Thursday June
    10th at the old Union Station in washington following the game betwen
    Germany and Brazil. It's described as and I quote here without
    permission
    
    "a casual post-game ball with hors d'oeuvres, buffet and silent
     auction" - not a post-game pint in the Hook'n'Tackle!
    
    Special guest include
    "His Excellency Sir Robin Renwick, British ambassador"
    "His Excellency Rubens Ricupero, Ambassador of Brazil"
    "His Excellency Dr Immo Stabreit, ambassador of the Federal Republic
         of Germany"
    "The National team players of Brazil, Germany and England"
    
    So is this it, my chance at last to find out why Graham Taylor doesn't
    pick Chris waddle, whether Gazza is really a prat and exactly what
    John Barnes thinks he's been doing for the last couple of years.
    
    well i'm not sure that the computer didn't pick my name by mistake,
    i mean crikey they don't do this for mere mortals after England
    have just dispatched a difficult European side at wembley do they?
    
    admission price is a whopping $94 dollars - though $40 is
    tax-deductible since the proceeds will benefit charity.
    
    Maybe I could whisper in Graham Taylor's left-ear the name of
    a decent English left-back - anyone know one??
    
    Regards,
    
    andrew.D.Wicks
297.2ECCGY4::HAIGHExperientia does itMon May 17 1993 11:185
    >pick Chris waddle, whether Gazza is really a prat and exactly what
    >John Barnes thinks he's been doing for the last couple of years.
    
    	Last I heard, Gascoigne won't be released by Lazio, (he played a
    blinder yesterday). 
297.3Maybe it'll catch on back home....ICS::KETTMon May 17 1993 21:4115
    re .1 Sounds a bit posh! Maybe this'll catch on back home and they'll
    start throwing post-relegation wakes in places like
    Middlesboro...."Following his failure to keep the club in the Premier
    League, come and see the manager commit ritual suicide by
    falling on a corner flag from the comfort of the Directors Bar!"
    
    I saw a listing of the England squad listed somewhere on the internet
    the other day. Glad to see Barnes included. In spite of his treatment
    at the hands of the Wembley fans, he's a class act, and I'm glad I'll
    get the chance to have my 10 year old (daughter!) see him play at
    Foxboro, even if he is a bit past his prime.
    
    Regards, from the only Boro FC Supporters Club member with a US
    address,
    Alan 
297.4slaven would be offside in the food queue!AIMTEC::WICKS_AAlphatraz - Coming Summer 93Mon May 17 1993 21:598
    Alan,
    
    Let's meet up at Foxboro - contact me off-line.
    If you see the squad listing please post it.
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks
297.5FORTY2::ASHGrahame Ash @REOTue May 18 1993 10:294
Re last 2 on England's squad. I think Barnes is being given a rest and won't 
make the trip (but I thought he only played half a season?!). And apparently 
the organisers are trying to get FIFA to lean on Lazio to let Gascoigne go. 
Looks like yet another 'exciting' saga coming up . . .
297.6No Barnsie !SHIPS::DURANT_STue May 18 1993 10:328
    
    Barnes is in the squad for the two World Cup qualifiers, but will not
    be playing in the US tournament. According to the paper I read he wants
    to improve his fitness for next season. They reckoned he is risking his
    England career but he has apparently failed to get back to fitness by
    playing matches.
    
    				Steve.
297.7US players not inNEWPRT::TOMAN_RITue Jun 01 1993 23:137
    It is my understanding the US team will not have Tab Ramos, Eric
    Wynalda and John Harkes because their European teams will not release
    them--I guess we will have to beat you with our second stringers :)
    
    regards from Mission Viejo,California home of the US team
    
    rick
297.8Heh if they can't even beat Poland (:==:)AIMTEC::WICKS_AAlphatraz - Coming Summer 93Tue Jun 01 1993 23:4110
    Rick,
                  
    why would for example Harkes not be playing after all it's not as if
    Sheff wed have to play any games before August. Some of the other
    European leagues still have seasons/play-offs going on which is why
    gascoigne will apparently still be in Italy eating Mars bars.
    
    regards froM Atlanta - the olympic capital (:==:)
    
    Andrew.D.wicks
297.9USA all the wayNEWPRT::TOMAN_RIWed Jun 02 1993 00:097
    Andrew,
    
    I just read a small blurb in our newspaper which indicated the info I
    gave--I don't understand the Harkes problem either --maybe they are
    wrong
    
    rick
297.10Dooley not HarkesNEWPRT::TOMAN_RIWed Jun 02 1993 19:234
    I reread blurb in newspaper--my mistake--apparently it is Dooley not
    Harkes who was not released
    
    rick
297.11Movin' on?ICS::KETTWed Jun 02 1993 19:446
    Internet gossip suggests Harkes is up for sale from Wednesday.
    Something about a contract dispute. Did I hear talk of him going to
    Blackburn, or was that my imagination?
    
    Regards,
    Alan
297.12US to beat England in the tourney ????ISEQ::KLAMBERTThu Jun 03 1993 12:1015
    Having seen England outplayed by Norway last night, unless there is a 
    big improvement in the England performances, I can see the U.S. Team
    beating them. I have seen the U.S. play a couple of times in the last
    two years in the Boston area, and they are definitely an improving
    side under the reigns of their new manager. With members of the team
    playing in professional leagues outside the US for the last season, this
    should give way to an even more inproved US Team. I'd like to be in
    Boston to see them this year, as I think they will do well in the U.S.
    cup. Of course they are the holders also !!!
    
    
    Keith.
    
    
    
297.14Off to see Taylor's world-beaters!AIMTEC::WICKS_AJune 7-13 Real Football in the U.SFri Jun 04 1993 23:5922
    Well this as they say is it as i'm off home to pack and then in the
    morning off to Hartford. First game is Sunday U.S v Brazil in New Haven
    followed by the games in Foxboro and Washington (two there). 
    
    I promise to return on Monday June 14th with match reports on all four 
    games and maybe some bar reviews for those Irish supporters and others
    who will coming over for the real Cup next year.
    
    If the games get shown on TV where you are then I'll be the strange
    Welsh looking one yelling "aldo, aldo ,aldo" (:==:) and singing
    any Norwegian drinking songs I can learn!
    
    Predictions are:
    U.S     1 Brazil 3                               
    U.S     0 England 0
    Brazil  2 Germany 1
    England 0 Brazil 1
    
    
    Hwyl fawr,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks (Atlanta's Most Infamous Welshman)
297.15A slow start.....GYMAC::DCASSIDYMon Jun 07 1993 10:5626
    
    USA 0 Brasil 2
    Watched the game last night and was more impressed with the US style
    than the Brazilians. They conceded goals 5 minutes into the match and
    just before the end. The first goal was a disgrace from the
    umpiring standard. There were clearly 3 Brazilians offside when the
    free kick was taken from just outside the penalty area. Second goal 
    well taken but the most encouraging fact was that around 50,000 people
    went to the game. 
    
    The most disturbing aspect was the arrogance shown by
    the German TV commentator over the US team. Just a training game for
    the Brazilians against a team with no real World Cup chance, USA with no
    organised league..etc etc. Its a pity that somebody didn't show him the
    History books and point out that the US got to a World Cup semi before
    either Germany or Brazil and the German Federation didn't get their act
    together to form a properly organised league until 1963 !!!!
    I just hope we don't get this attitude all the way through the Finals
    next year.
    
    Uuuuuhhhh Arrogance ! I can't stand it....anyway I'll try not to hold
    it against the German team.
    
    Regards,
    
    Dezzz.
297.16Harkes overattedNEWPRT::TOMAN_RITue Jun 08 1993 23:0218
    At least in this particular game I thoght that Harkes is overated. He
    lost the ball at least 6 times in midfield play and the only grat play
    was his touch to Stewart who missed from 18 yard out.
    
    I found it amazing that for this tournament that the USA has Harbor and
    Stewart playing the up striker--btween them in a total of 41 caps for
    the USA they have scored 0 goals. They don't suit up Vermees who in 61
    caps has 13 goals including a couple this year.  
    
    Now we will see if they play Wynalda at up striker who hasn't scored
    for his German team since Clinton was inaguarted and whose team was
    just relegated to the second division
    
    We need Hugo Perez at midfield for the USA to make it happen
    
    Any thoughts
    
    rick  
297.17The US team improvement continues ISEQ::KLAMBERTThu Jun 10 1993 10:1818
    A great result for the US against a tired and uninspired England team.
    The US keeper Tony Meola (sp?), played out of his skin and kept the US 
    in the game on several occasions, when their vunerable looking defence 
    when beaten. However, the US scored two fine goals, the second one a 
    phenomenal leap by a guitar player from New York ( I wonder what he
    takes before a game and I'll have two of 'em !), to head home over
    Woods' outstretched hands. And the US might have scored more if
    Pallister had not played a fairly solid game in defence for the US.
    
    This could be the nail in Taylor's coffin given the media hype that 
    will surround this performance. However, I remember another English
    League based International team being beaten by the US last year,
    which apart from a small glitch in the newspapers, was quickly 
    forgotton. An end of season holiday attitude by the Irish team was
    the accepted reason for the result. I wonder will the same excuse be
    accepted for the England team last night. I think not, given the
    "footballing crisis" that the whole of England ( and Scotland ?) are
    talking about.
297.18A local heroGLDOA::BOSSONNEYThu Jun 10 1993 15:456
    re.-1
    ....I read in the paper this morning that the second goal was scored by
    Alexi Lalas. Good old Alexi is no " guitar player from New York"
    (although he might look like one!). He is from Birmingham, Michigan.
    
    Jacques
297.19A spectator's viewGERALD::CAMPKINResident AlienThu Jun 10 1993 17:5942
Having actually been at the game I can give maybe some more insight into 
what correctly has been described as an abysmal England performance. 
Most of us alien Brits are taking a good deal of flak at work today! I 
can't imagine why anyone at home would have stayed up to the bitter end.

A couple of points not yet made.  Firstly it had rained extremely hard 
just prior to the game and although this pitch drains everything thrown 
at it, it was obviously wet.  Yet at 6 of the England team ended up 
slipping in the first ten minutes - doesn't anyone tell them that they 
need longer studs in those conditions.

I thought the goalkeeping was interesting.  The England goalie was slow, 
out of position a lot of the time, and definitely at fault for the 
second goal.  To be out-jumped on the edge of the 6-yard box and have a 
ball headed over him is a disgrace.  The scorer couldn't believe it!

For my money Meola made one very good save (from a free kick that the 
Ref was trying to get the players to retreat about 20 yards!), and had a 
totally inept set of people trying to beat him.  The misses by Wright 
most of my 14 year-old team could have scored on.  Meola was certainly 
made to look a world beater!

Pallister was the only person that I think played to anything like his 
capability - Clough spent a lot of time with the ball on the edge of the 
opposition penalty area wondering what to do next!  The number of 
crosses that came over, went through a totally unmanned area and out the 
other side were legion.

I'll leave my friend Mr Wicks to comment more when he gets back from 
following this "team" around the U.S. - I didn't see him at the game but 
there were no reported suicides so I suppose he'll be in Washington.

Finally I was pleased that the English supporters behaved reasonably 
well - the State police had turned out in an incredible force (far more 
than are ever present at an American football game) but they had little 
to do.  I don't know how long after the game the TV stayed on, but there 
was a very vociferous group baying for Taylor's head.  

Germany and Brazil - I like the suggestion that we send for the 
cricket team!!

Gerry
297.20Footballer who plays guitar or vice versa !!ISEQ::KLAMBERTThu Jun 10 1993 18:4815
    re:.18
    
    The match was shown live in the Britain and Ireland by ITN.
    The British commentator introduced Lalas as a "musician who played the
    guitar with a band from New York !!!" when he came on for Dooley, and
    hence my reference. On the whole the commentator tended to play down
    the American side, referring a lot to their recent 15 games when they
    only won once v Sausi Arabia and referred to the result as a "disgrace"
    for the English team.
    
    Lalas' goal certainly suggests his talents range far beyond any musical
    scope !!
    
    Keith.
    
297.21we were there!!GRUFFY::ZAHORARob ZahoraThu Jun 10 1993 19:2860
    My family and I made it to Foxboro yesterday to see the US team defeat 
    England.  Aside from getting somewhat wet at the beginning, we had a
    lot of  fun.  My two sons (one plays U-10, the other is on a couple of
    U-12 teams) were excited watching the English team bus unload but were
    a little  disappointed not to see David Platt, one of their heroes.  But
    we got  got to our seats and they took up rooting for England while my
    wife and I  cheered on the USA.  My younger son met a similar aged boy
    sitting in the  next seat and they had a grand time watching the game
    together.

    As for the game itself, I thought it was exciting.  There was a lot of 
    slipping because of wet grass in the first half.  From our vantage
    point we  caught a few infractions missed by the refs including a good
    shirt-yank by  one of the players (US I believe, but I can't recall). 
    There wasn't any  razzle-dazzle play and I thought the two goals were
    rather text-book  examples.  In the second half, the game was saved by
    the US  goalie, Tony Meola (sp.?).  More than once I was sure that
    England was  going to score but somehow Meola managed to grab on or
    deflect the ball  away.  

    A couple of things puzzle me though.  A number of times I saw  players
    from both teams try to dribble through two or more defenders.  I 
    thought that the possibility of success doing so was not very good (as 
    proved to be the case) and wonder why it was attempted?  Also more than 
    once an attackers from both teams were observed to bring the ball up to
    the  opposing goal to a point where I thought they should have taken a
    shot. They had a good angle and I anticipated a kick.  Yet they
    continued for  another stride which was all that a defender needed to
    get in and deflect  the ball away.  I wonder why they held off?

    On a different topic, the prices at the concession stands were somewhat 
    outrageous - $3.75 for a beer, $2.00 for a coke and the like.  I
    suppose  this may be normal at sporting events but it didn't help the
    budget any. We had brought some juice boxes but these were confiscated
    at the gate -  they were afraid we were going to throw them at someone. 
    While I  appreciate the concern for security, it would have been nice
    to know what  was forbidden beforehand.

    For all you English noters, be assured that the English fans were well 
    represented.  There were probably more than fifty banners hung around
    the  stadium from various football clubs.  Most were names I didn't
    recognize and I assume were from some of the smaller English teams. 
    Some group must  have bought out a section of the stadium since this
    area was all English  and really into singing/chanting.

    One thing that disappointed me a little was the coverage of the event
    in  the local news media.  True, there was commercial-TV coverage
    showing the goals and all. But it looked like at least two of the
    stations had done their planning around stories on hooliganism and were
    somewhat disappointed  that only 9 people were arrested.

    The Boston Globe had four stories in this morning's paper.  Mostly, 
    they were on the fluff side saying that yes, the US beat England for
    the first  time in 40 some years.  There were no critical analyses of
    the game.  I  very much would have liked to see some comments about the
    play and to have  learned why the US won.  Not much was said about any
    of the players which I  think was somewhat of a shame.  The Globe
    sports writers are rather astute when it comes to other sports, so I
    hope they will learn a little  more about soccer for their reporting on
    next years World Cup matches.
297.22Hang down your head, John BullICS::KETTThu Jun 10 1993 22:38105
    I was at the game too, with my England flag folded in my pocket out of
    shame as I left the stadium. I've never seen an England team play as badly
    as that lot did last night; my men's over-40 team could have given them a
    run for their money based on their performance. There were one or two
    bright spots: Pallister played a solid game in defence, and I thought Batty
    turned in a good performance: he was carrying the ball well, and he kept
    making off-the-ball runs out of the backfield that his team mates managed
    to studiously ignore for most of the game.
    
    Now for the bad stuff. Clough turned in an amazing performance as the 90
    Minute Invisible Man. I don't remember him doing a single thing of note.
    Barnsie was hustling (he lost the ball on the edge of the US goalbox at one
    point and made the saving tackle next to the corner flag at the other end
    of the field), but it just didn't seem enough to make a place for him on
    the squad. A pity, 'cos I've always loved watching him play for L'pool. In
    general, the English forwards didn't look like they a) wanted to win the
    game, and b) knew how to do it. The one moment of note from the English
    forwards was in the last 15 minutes, when we were already 0-2 down and
    someone (forget who) got the ball to Ince(?), who was unmarked on the edge
    of the US box and facing his own goal. He turned on a dime/sixpence (pick
    your metaphor), pulling the ball with him, and took a step towards the goal
    before letting rip. Meola saw it coming, and, in the save of the game,
    smothered the shot as it left Ince's foot. (Up in the stands, it looked
    like a simple lob would have got the goal, 'cos Meola was coming in like an
    express train, feet first, and was giving away the high shot. But I wasn't
    on the field, getting paid the big money, so what do I know?)
    
    Interestingly enough, Woods had hardly any touches on the ball the whole
    game. I can only remember him going up to pull down a single cross from a
    corner. (As an earlier writer noted, he missed another cross to give away
    the second goal!) About the only things I remember him doing were to pull
    the two US goals from the back of the net! At the other end of the field,
    Meola played well, with some nice reaction saves, including a lovely full
    stretch dive to turn away a free kick shot. Meola single-handedly kept the
    US in the game in the second half, which I suppose says that England was
    getting pressure on the US goal, but given the uninspired way the front
    line and attacking midfield was playing, one never really believed that
    they'd get back first one, and then two, goals. The US goalie was lucky to
    make it into the second half. About 25 minutes into the first half,
    Ferdinand got loose just inside the US goalbox, and Meola rushed off his
    line to get to the loose ball. With both of them sprinting, Ferdinand
    managed to push it past Meola, and Meola just plain flattened him: no
    attempt to play the ball at all. I got a very nice look at the whole thing,
    and was frankly amazed that it didn't draw a red card. If Meola hadn't
    decked Ferdi, it was an easy sidefoot shot into an open net. Probably the
    ref wanted to avoid a public lynching, but they don't get much clearer than
    that to me.
    
    Both US goals seemed to come from what I'd call typically English play:
    long balls up the middle to see if a fast forward could get loose. The US
    scored their first from just such a ploy, and their second was from a
    corner kick conceded as a result of a similar move. Both goals were
    well-executed and well taken, although the second should have been safely
    in the outstretched arms of Woods....but he forgot to stretch. Ramos looked
    good for the US at midfield, and I suppose Harkes did his job, but I have
    to admit that he wasn't as visibly effective as Ramos, who managed to
    embarass the English back line several times on the outside. On the English
    side, Pallister repeatedly executed impeccable headers to cut out the long
    crossfield lobs that the Americans were using in an attempt to spring their
    wingers loose.
    
    If I had to make a single comment about how the English game looked, I'd
    say it was that their game lacked width. They failed to move the ball
    effectively to the outside, and I don't really recall a single instance
    where an English player cleanly beat his man to the outside, took the ball
    to the corner, and played a cross. It seemed like we were trying to move
    the ball through the midfield without realizing that the outside was an
    option. I haven't seen any of the recent games (Holland/Norway etc), but if
    this is typical, we're throwing away a very powerful option. Comments,
    please......
    
    That's about it. I had a little cry in my beer when I got home. I was so
    embarrased by the English performance, and my wife (US citizen) and 10 year
    old daughter (US born) gave me endless grief about the whole event for the
    45 minutes it took to get out of the parking lot and the 30 minutes for the
    drive home. If this is the stuff that Taylor's squad has been dishing up
    for the last year or so, then I'm not surprised he's getting the criticism
    he is. Friendly or not, this is the kind of match a team of the nation's
    best footballers should be able to win in their sleep: heck, the Brazilians
    did it on Sunday, and most of them hadn't even practised together once! 
    
    Regards,
    Alan   
    
    p.s. By the way, all the crap that's been reported in the US media about
    the 'English Hooligans' is just that: faeces. There were lots of banners
    there last night (Liverpool/Man United/Lincoln City/West Ham/Wimbledon
    spring to mind), but most of the 'English Hooligans' were like me: in their
    30's/40's/50's and transplants in search of a chance to see England do it's
    stuff against (essentially) a youngish team of fairly skilled amateurs.
    Most of us had our wives and (US born) kids with us. I spent the entire
    game wedged between a middle aged Scotsman from Kircuddy/New Hampshire (who
    spent the whole time alternately telling me he was there to see the "Old
    Enemy" get thrashed and berating the English forwards for not finishing)
    and an older man and his wife from Newcastle who were over on holiday to
    see their son get married. By the end of the game, all three of us were
    hanging our heads and moaning softly. The idea that we were going to turn
    ourselves into a ravening mob of car-trashing skinheads in the wastelands
    of southern Massachussets is ludicrous in the extreme. Apart from anything
    else, at $3.75 for just over 1/2 pint of US cat's piss (sorry, Budweiser!),
    even the middle class can't afford to make the alcohol-assisted
    metamorphosis from software engineers/pensioners into social deviants!
    
    Tony: I looked for you, colourful shirt and all! Did you see the same game
    as me? Look forward to reading your account of the procedings. 
297.23beer tastes better with tearsNEWPRT::TOMAN_RIThu Jun 10 1993 23:4017
    After reading the last several responses of why England lost--all I can
    say is cry in your beer.
    
    Take it like a man--you lost--no amount of rationalizing will change the
    score. The US did get most of the breaks when it counted but to say the
    US team are high level amateurs and the rain somehow attributed to
    England's defeat is a bit much.
    
    Many of you think that the talent differential between England and the
    US is of the same magnitude between the US and England's Olympic
    basketball teams--ITS NOT--
    
    Perhaps--just perhaps the US team-its talent and its coaching made (to
    some very small degree) England  play the way it did.
    
    
    rick 
297.24Coach:"Don't dribble,Don't lose the ball!!" BoringKIRKTN::CDOUDIEZig....IN YOUR FACE !!Fri Jun 11 1993 09:1422
   > A couple of things puzzle me though.  A number of times I saw  players
   > from both teams try to dribble through two or more defenders.  I 
   > thought that the possibility of success doing so was not very good (as 
   > proved to be the case) and wonder why it was attempted?  Also more than 
   
     I think this is what they are meant to do.......usually, probably a few
     years ago now, the player who could take on two or three defenders and
     then pass the ball was hailed as a hero on the terraces i.e. "Jinky"
     Johnstone, Willie Henderson or the likes of marradona, Pele, Cruiff(sp)
     All these players could do wonders with the ball. Maybe you could get
     some videos of these older teams and players and see the game how it 
     should be played, not the way that coaches want it played nowadays. 
 
   > On a different topic, the prices at the concession stands were somewhat 
   > outrageous - $3.75 for a beer, $2.00 for a coke and the like.  I
   > suppose  this may be normal at sporting events but it didn't help the
   
     In Scotland and the rest of Britain, no containers of any sort are 
     allowed into a match. You can't buy alcohol of any sort, just soft
     drinks and the old "Pie ana Bovril, Jimmy!!"

     Colin.
297.25Why World Cup Group 2..??PEKING::WILSOND1DAVE WILSON @WLCFri Jun 11 1993 14:487
    
    For some reason this tournement seems to be being discussed in two
    different notes.....
    
    What was the score of the Germany v Brazil game please..???
    
    Dave...
297.26CLARID::KREYERAndre KREYER - ValbonneFri Jun 11 1993 14:574
>    What was the score of the Germany v Brazil game please..???
 		3 - 3  is what I read in another note...

								.Andre.
297.28A game of two...MACNAS::JMALLONFri Jun 11 1993 14:5930
    		
    			Brazil 3 - 3 Germany
    
    I sat up late last night to enjoy this entertaining game on ITV. To say
    a "game of two halves" would be an understatement. Brazil leading three
    - nil at half time and totally outplaying and outclassing a tired
    looking Germany. It was classic Brazil - lots of great combinations,
    walking the ball out of defense, ball juggling, back-heels, banana
    shots, the Brazilian crowds dancing and singing etc..
    
    Then in the second half ,apart from the first ten minutes, it was all
    Germany. Brazil resorted to playing the type of football that they just
    cannot play. They tried to sit on the lead and "defend". They reminded
    me of Brazil either in the last World Cup or the World cup before 
    when they showed a dirty cynical side that everyone hated. In the first
    half they looked like potential world champions, in the second - well
    even England (cricketers or not) would have given them a game (well
    maybe I am exaggerating a little :-))
    
    As for a friendly, they were a lot of "tough" tackles about and when
    Germany scored the equaliser a minute into injury time even Bertie
    Volks was jumping around the pitch and Klinsmann forgot about his
    injury to go on a celebratory run.
    
    All in all an enjoyable match. Showed both sides of Brazilian football.
    Lets only hope that in the world cup next year we are treated to more
    Brazilian football like that in the first half.
    
    John M.
    
297.303-3KBOMFG::TANNERCalifornian Girls are more fun!!!!!Fri Jun 11 1993 14:594
 Brazil lead 3-0 at half time, but the Germans came out fighting in the second
have and scored 3 goals in the last 30 mins.... Very entertaining game....

                                                         -dave-
297.31Face it, US are good enough to win...SERV01::BENOITFri Jun 11 1993 16:3028
re -2

Sooner or later, more people will realize that the US are doing an excellent 
job (under the circumstances) putting a decent team together for WC94.  How 
soon we forget (or did we notice?) that they did not look as bad as expected 
in Italy in WC90.  In fact, the 0-1 (if I remember well) result against 
Italy was to me a small victory.

The general wisdom out there is that the US cannot have a decent soccer 
team.  While there is some truth to that, it's also true that the US 
national team is not to be taken lightly.  In other words, England got in 
trouble because they approached the game against the US as something easy.

This should have been obvious to everyone:  It takes more now to beat the US 
national team than it did say 10 years ago.  I am afraid that a country's
soccer tradition, famous players, dedicated socer fans, etc are not good 
enough.  In order to win, they have to show this US national squad the 
respect they deserve.

To the question "was US good or was England bad?" my answer is that the US 
is good enough to win.  All great soccer nations out there should be aware 
of this fact.

Disclaimer: The US may go pass the first round of WC94;  it would take more 
than a miracle for them to go further.
                                      
Jude                                       
                        
297.32.31 is a reply to .23 (sorry...)SERV01::BENOITFri Jun 11 1993 16:400
297.33Tell me the legends of long agoREOSV1::ONEILLSSat Jun 12 1993 01:0113
    RE: -1  I agree.  The U.S. have been staedily making progress since the
    last World Cup.  They beat Ireland and I think Portugal to win this event 
    last year.   NOw take a look at the WC qualifying tables and Portugal's
    demolition of Scotland.  The ENglish league players are all solid
    performers.  Dooley played for last year's German champions etc. etc.
    
    They are improving and making progress which is great for soccer
    "worldwide".  THeir improvement could be their downfall...I think
    attitudes are slowly changing and opposing teams may treat them with
    more respect.  I doubt if the Irish team will be in the Black Rose if
    they draw them in next year's finals!   
    
     Shane
297.34Funny old game? I was p*ssing myselfPAKORA::AMILLARAnd some late news just in...Sat Jun 12 1993 22:0812
    
    I agree with the last notes. I watched the game at home in Scotland,
    and I thought that the US played very well and deserved their win.
    
    However, just to show that it's a funny old game, I predict that Brazil
    will only narrowly beat England, and I think that England will beat
    Germany, because the style of play will be more akin to that which the
    English are used to.
    
    Archie,
    Unbiased Scot.
    
297.35A new beginning?PAKORA::AMILLARAnd some late news just in...Sun Jun 13 1993 21:2812
    
    Well, I wasn't far away.   England 1-1 Brazil
    
    Graham Taylor can breathe a sigh of relief. I did not see the game, but
    I beleive that England fully deserved this result, and indeed scored 
    first.
    
    Can it continue?  I hope not!!!!!
    
    Archie,
    Unbiased Scot
    
297.36The Return of Atlanta's Most Infamous Welshman!YR2000::WICKS_AU.S.A 2 England 0 - I was there!Mon Jun 14 1993 05:5277
    well 20 replies in this note and god knows how many mysteriously
    in the group 2 note... since i've just got off a plane from
    Washington and need some sleep i'll just post a few lines before
    beginning writing/posting my "A week in the life of a Wandering
    Welshman in search of Real Football in the U.S Volume 2" tomorrow.
    
    it all started last Sunday the 6th in New Haven Connecticut with
    a fairly convincing victory by Brazil over the U.S 2-0 who could
    have won by many more.
    
    then after Monday evening dinner in Nashua N.H with "Gerry the Landlord/Ref"
    and a day sightseeing on tuesday I moved to Foxboro stadium in Mass to 
    witness one of those games that us non-English people just live for a very 
    embarrasing defeat for England - I remember the Norway game about 10
    years ago - the 4-1 thrashing we gave them in the old British
    Championship etc etc 
    
    despite the rain Tom Hill , Frank Way and I
    were glad that we had witnessed history and could but sit in the
    parking lot drinking Bass Ale in celebration thinking of how much fun
    you noters would be having here in our enforced absence. The news
    of the results from norway and eire were lost in the immensity of 
    the fact that England lost to a team that only recently sneaked a draw
    againt might Iceland - we were wet, we were happy, we were drunk
    
    Jon, Grahame and anyone else in Reading needs to make sure to avoid me
    at christmas as I will return with photos, t-shirt, programme
    commemorating this great game (:==:)
    
    7 hours later and with a terrific hangover and on under 5 hours sleep (the
    bar stayed opened late) I got on a plane to Washington, got in another
    rental car and drove to RFK to see Brazil blow a very one-side 3-0 lead
    to draw 3-3 with the Germans - and their secret number 14! - my mind
    though was still on the night before, what was happening in this
    notesfile, the newspapers, had Mike finally eaten a hat?? after a few
    post match Guinesses I slept soundly for over 12 hours.
    
    Killing the next two days in D.C was easy mostly at the Smithsonian 
    Air and Space - including some good football inspired films -
    "The Dream is Alive" - about Wales qualifying for a World Cup 
    "Exploring New Worlds" - Gary Spain's trip to Albania
    
    and then this morning just over 12 hours ago I set off for RFK again
    to see England v Brazil which finished 1-1 with brazil finishing
    the stronger team and England showing about 4 changes from wednesday
    still not reallying gelling in any department - yes Earl Barrett
    appeared at right back and I saw Rodney Marsh and Ron Atkinson!. one
    figures that the return of Shearer (to partner wright) and Gazza when
    he finishes appearing in Phantom of the Opera will strengthen the side
    (oh and a scummer Tim Flowers appears in goal so I had someone to boo)
    but one wonders how their going to score 3 goals against the Germans
    like everyone else does...
    
    Oh and the only game I missed was U.S.A v Germany which finished 3-4
    the U.S came back at least twice but I don't have many more details
    since it was played at exactly the same time and hundreds of miles
    away from the game I was at - heck I would have gone. this game
    was historic as it was the first LIVE televised football game on
    Network TV in the U.S - I believe all previous games have been on cable.
    and then hardly ever live.
    
    The person who taped the game for me says that she thought ABC did
    I good job of showing the game... 
    
    Anyway after that it was a mad-dash to the airport and back here to
    Atlanta - I heard while I was away of the successes of Rush inspired
    wales and Aldo inspired Eire so i missed only the wonderful banter
    in here which i will catch up on slowly 
    
    now did someone say I was mad to do all this - hell I enjoyed it - 
    roll on next year.
    
    regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks
    
    
297.37The crisis is now a dilemma!ISEQ::KLAMBERTMon Jun 14 1993 10:3222
    Apart from the last twenty minutes, when England start losing the
    midfield battle, I thought England looked the part yesterday. They 
    competed and played the ball between defense and mid-field very
    competantly. Wright could have done with another attacking forward
    beside him (Sheringham, Shearer) and with Platt, Ince and Sinton doing
    well in mid-field, the addition of an in-form Gascoine would render
    a formidable mid-field at any level. Pallister is benefitting greatly
    from these games and is making the Centre half spot his own. Des 
    Walker is still a good player and I think will recover from his recent
    slump. Indeed, if Taylor does not make any silly mistakes/changes, I
    think the whole Englsih side can recover from their recent slump.
    Flowers did well in goal, although he had no spectacular saves to 
    make, and Dorigo and Barrett looked like two good defenders.
    
    Hopefully, this will be a turning point for the side. One more
    good performance needed against Germany, a nice rest from the game
    and the media which all those players deserve, and the "crisis in
    British football" may be only a "wee dilemma".
    
    
    Keith.
    
297.38Better...but why does it change..?PEKING::WILSOND1DAVE WILSON @WLCMon Jun 14 1993 10:3518
    
    The England - Brazil game just showed what a clueless amanger Graham
    Taylor is. He doesnt know how he wants them to play. The style England
    play changes with everygame. Last night the team played with a pattern
    and continually passed the ball about and DIDNT give it away everytime
    the right back was in possesion,( mainly because Lee Dixon wasnt
    playing).
    
    At last most of the England team played in there correct position, we
    didnt have a winger at left back or a right back in midfield, but
    Taylor still couldnt resist playing the totally useless Nigel Clough in
    attack, where he wasnt in the game at all.
    
    When England play as they di last night, and against Holland earlier
    this year, they look a good side.....why they dont play in that style
    in every game is down to the manager.
    
    Dave...
297.39Was the first half that bad????KBOMFG::TANNERCalifornian Girls are more fun!!!!!Mon Jun 14 1993 11:4715
   I saw highlights of the second half last night and England were a lot better
than their previous two games, although Brazil didn't play the same quality
football as in the first hour against the Germans. The German commentator said
the first half wasn't worth showing, was it that bad????? 

  Well the Germans certainly know how to score goals, this is good for building
up interest in the game for the American fans, and you could see they were
enjoying it. I just hope the final game produces four or five goals as well 
because the tournament has been entertaining so far.

                                                                 -dave-

p.s Tom Dooley played for Kaiserslautern when they won the league two years ago.
    He is also an inspiring force in the USA team.
297.40KBOMFG::RFORSTRainer Forst SHR3-1/w7Mon Jun 14 1993 12:0919
    Interesting footnote on Dooley (who's services are not 'needed' any
    more in Kaiserslautern): In an interview he said his english is just
    good enough "to get along with the guys somehow" and that he needs
    an interpreter for serious interviews in the US media. I find this
    amazing for a seemingly intelligent person with american parents, even
    if he grew up in Germany.
    
    REgardless of the outcome of the last game, I also find it amazing
    that footballs motherland England seems to have serious trouble to
    provide a winning national team. This goes on since England's last
    WC win, which is ages ago.
    
    With the climate, the infrastructure and the type of spectators I 
    think that europ. teams will continue to struggle (= not win the WC)
    in a WC tournament on the american continent.
    
    Watch out for Norway, though ...
    
    
297.41Great progress in US FootballZIGLAR::FOXWELLOSF/ULTRIX/UNIX SpecialistMon Jun 14 1993 13:4741
    Well, I attended the Brazil-England match at RFK Stadium in Washington
    DC yesterday, and got home in time to watch the taped rebroadcast by
    Telemundo (Spanish-language TV network) of the US-Germany game.
    
    Now let me get this straight:
    
    The only possible reason for last week's 2-0 loss by England to the 
    Americans was total incompetence on the part of the English team, since
    the whole world knows that the US is a not-to-be-taken-seriously-bunch-
    of-amateurs-who-don't-even-CALL-it-Football.  And Graham Taylor?
    OFF WITH HIS HEAD!
    
    But now, England and Taylor have miraculously redeemed themselves by
    a competent showing against Brazil?
    
    All I can say about this line of reasoning, using a word understandable
    on both sides of the Atlantic, is RUBBISH!
    
    The Americans are now playing competent football, and the 2-0 loss by
    England last week was not so much England's shame as America's pride.
    There is no shame in losing to a good team.  A team good enough to
    match Germany 1-1 in the first half yesterday, I might add (and will
    admit that the second half could have been much better).
    
    I have been coaching youth soccer in the DC area for 14 years now, and 
    have avidly watched both our progress in major world contests such as
    the Olympics and World Cup and in the support for the sport.  I believe
    we have reached an acceptable level of competition in the world
    football community, in spite of the rather nasty international
    attitudes to the contrary.  We will probably not get close to victory
    in the 94 World Cup, but neither will we be embarassed.
    
    One final comment about yesterday's Brazil-England game...England
    seemed to play inspired defense, and lackluster offense.  My
    14-year-old son (who plays in the highly competitive National Capital 
    Soccer League for young players) asked why Wright was hanging back
    so much.  Good question, from a kid who has played nothing but soccer
    since he was 5 years old.
    
    
    
297.42BUSSTP::DSMITHWORLD BEWARE!! GAZZA'S A PRATMon Jun 14 1993 14:1926
    
    
     Having watched yesterday's game on the box, I find it a little strange
    that England and their supporters can be pleased with the performance.
    Ok, they didn't loose and they certainly played with a lot more spirit
    than was shown against Norway and the USA, but they created hardly any
    goal-scoring chances and spent a lot of time defending and chasing the
    Brazilians whose movement and skill was far superior to Englands.
    
     A couple of points from the coverage last night on ITV that proves to
    me that some of these so-called "experts" really do talk some complete
    nonsense at times.
    
     1. Rodney Marsh at his after-match summary said that the Brazilian
       goalkeeper had only 1 save to make in the game from Platts header.
       In the next sentence he said England were the better team for 70
       minutes!!
    
     2. Ron Atkinson on Earl Barrett. Barrett had kicked the ball out of 
       play during the first half. Atkinson then said that at Aston Villa,
       Barrett is told to make short passes to players who are better
       equipped than he is at passing the ball. For goodness sake, this is
       a so called international player and his club manager says he can't
       pass the ball.
    
     Danny.
297.43PEKING::WILSOND1DAVE WILSON @WLCMon Jun 14 1993 14:5329
    
    Re- Ron Atkinson and Earl Barrett..
    
    I got the feeling Bojangles was having a dig at Taylor when he made
    the comment referred to in .42. Barrett had just done his impression
    of Lee Dixon and punted the ball as far as he could up the field, and I
    think Bojangles was trying to say he isnt used to doing that at Villa,
    and he wouldnt have done that at Villa. In defence of barrett, he didnt
    give the ball away half as much as Dixon does.
    
    I wasnt happy with Englands performance, as you said they created
    nothing, but it was better than the thrashing I was expecting. At least
    they competed, but until Taylor is replaced by someone who can get the
    England players to pass the ball to each other consistantly, instead of 
    putting three passes together, panacking and just launching the ball into 
    the last third of the field hoping that someone might get on the end of
    it, things will never improve. You cant give the ball away at any level
    of Football and expect to win things.
    
    Dave...
    
    Ps...the funniest thing of all was listening to Brian Moore and co
    trying to convince everyone that Taylor was a tactical genious for
    replacing Batty with Platt. The same man that plays that goes to major
    competitions without a right back and when we are losing 1-0 brings off
    his centre back and replaces him with another centre back....oh he is a
    great tactician....GET HIM OUT.
    
    
297.44Time to turn the tables?PTOVAX::BIGLERArt Bigler - Technical OEM Group - DTN-422-7873 @PTOMon Jun 14 1993 16:3813
    RE: US 2 - England nil
    
    Well, now maybe we'll stop hearing all the moaning and groaning, etc.
    about 1950!  
    
    A fair number of us here in the US are wondering if this all means that 
    we now can send coaches across the pond to teach the English schoolboys 
    the game?!?!?!?!?!?  
    
    By the way ABC - well done on the live coverage of the US vs. Germany!
    
    Art
    
297.45But how many watched it ??GYMAC::DCASSIDYTue Jun 15 1993 12:088
    
    Art,
    	I wouldn't mind knowing what Variety rated the US v Germany game
    as far as number of people watching the game on the network channel.
    Any figures ??
    
    Regards,
    	Dezzz.
297.46Who Ruins Football.PAKORA::AMCKAYAndy PandyThu Jun 17 1993 19:0716
    If you ever listen to the likes of Hill,Motson,J Brown,Cameron and
    many more,they talk about football as if they had played it all 
    their life and that we did'nt have the brains to know what was a good
    move or pass etc.
    These people have wormed there way into this role with little or no
    past experience on the way the game is played,and we are now in danger
    of our game being hi-jacked by people who talk a good game.
    The US did well against England and fully deserved their victory,but
    for the commentators to refuse to give the US little or no credit
    for the way the played stinks.
    If we continue to let these people dictate to us how they think the 
    game should be played then the future of our game looks bleak,as 
    opposed to all the up and coming nations whose football style and the
    way they play it is a joy to watch rather than the punt up the park
    that we see every week.
    
297.47DCEIDL::HINXMANDo not adjust your mind ...Fri Jun 18 1993 16:3113
	re .46

>    If you ever listen to the likes of Hill,Motson,J Brown,Cameron and

>    These people have wormed there way into this role with little or no
>    past experience

	Well, Jimmy Hill was a succesful manager, getting Coventry promoted
	into the (then) First Division.
	In his playing days, was he also secretary of the Professional
	Footballers Association?

	Tony
297.48BLKPUD::WATTERSONPFour fox acheFri Jun 18 1993 17:2126
>>	Well, Jimmy Hill was a succesful manager, getting Coventry promoted
>>	into the (then) First Division.
>>	In his playing days, was he also secretary of the Professional
>>	Footballers Association?
    
    What about the list of things he did that go against him ?
    
    i  -   Making Coventry the first all-seater stadium not for safety
    reasons, purely as a means to raise more money. This had the effect of
    discouraging 'the man in the street' from attending football.
    
    ii -   Cheating by delaying the kick off of the Coventry - Bristol City
    game in 1978 which meant they knew the score from Everton - Sunderland
    game on the same night. Sunderland were relegated, Coventry and Bristol
    City both stayed up
    
    iii -  Chairman of Charlton - encouraging them to leave the Valley and
    move in as tennants at Selhurst Park
    
    iv  -  As a player with Brentford he was so hated by the supporters
    that he could only be picked for away games.
    
    
    The only thing in his favour is his hatred of the jocks.... ;-)
    
    Paul
297.49Toe-Poke.......PAKORA::JOWENSFri Jun 18 1993 17:3611
    
     re-1 
    
     ......and his immortal commentary statement about David Narey's
    "toe-poke" for Scotland against Brazil at the 82' world cup.  
    
     John
    
    BTW Paul, if he hates us as much as we hate the English then he is
    doing well....;-)
    
297.50Grassing DetroitSOLVIT::CAMPKINResident AlienFri Jun 18 1993 21:5010
Back to the topic, tomorrow's game between England and Germany at the 
Pontiac Silverdome in Detroit is being played on grass.  The dome 
normally has an artificial surface but to comply with FIFA requirements 
it needs to be grassed for the World Cup (it's one of the venues).  The 
way in which they are grassing it is strange to say the least.  
According to this week's Sports Illustrated the grass has been grown in 
hexgagonal 'boxes' which are being put together like a huge jigsaw all over 
the artificial surface.  It will interesting to see how it stands up.

Gerry
297.51England lose (again)\AIMTEC::WICKS_AU.S.A 2 England 0 - I was there!Sat Jun 19 1993 23:2347
    Well the hexagonal boxes of grass put up a better showing than england who
    went down 2-1 to germany and finish bottom (or fourth for you optimists)
    of the table for U.S Cup 1993.
    
    Deciding that he didn't have a decent left-back Graham (the genius) 
    taylor decided to play without one - i'm not kidding! also he decided
    to play without a forward - could this be the first 1-3-7-0 formation?
    		martyn
    barrett	pallister	walker		<nobody>
    sharpe 	sinton		clough 	ince 	platt	merson	barnes
		<nobody>
    
    actually the commentators tried to tell us that Sharpe and sinton were
    full-backs giving England 5 at the back and that Barnes and Clough
    were forwards!!!!! so it was 'a traditional 5-3-2' but nobody appeared
    to have told the England players.
    
    Germany playing almost a settled team - Kohler had returned to Germany
    but the rest of the team looked ominously familiar played by far the
    better football in front of about 60,000 people in the indoor
    mickey-Mouse stadium - oh I fib Bodo illgner was back in goal in place
    of Koepke. But it was your usual Klinsmann, Riedle, Matthaus, Buchwald
    effenberg, helmer, moller, schultz, ziege line-up - i'm missing one
    I know!
    
    Effenberg got the first after the 3 or 5 man england defence played
    like a 0 man defence and let him waltz in and score but the mighty man 
    Platt who's scored all (both) of england's goals in this tournament pulled
    one back.
    
    In the second half someone must have told that master tactician Graham
    Taylor that even though the game was indoors he was allowed to play 
    a full-back and forward and so winterburn entered for sharpe and wright
    for clough - Keown also came on for Pallister but they never looked
    like scoring and sure enough klinsmann popped up for the second german
    goal and won them the tournament.
    
    It wasn't that good of a game but then since I'd watched the others
    live at the stadium it wasn't going to look that good on a small
    screen tv anyway. so what is england's recent record?
    played 5 	won 0 	drawn 2 lost 3
    
    World-beaters or what?
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks
297.52Brazil 2 U.S.A 0 - Match reportAIMTEC::WICKS_AU.S.A 2 England 0 - I was there!Mon Jun 21 1993 01:23176
sorry these took so long but last week was not a good week at Digital.
here finally is a report on Brazil v U.S.A played in New HAven on Sunday
June 6th - the Foxboro game will appear later tonight and the two D.C
games tomorrow hopefully...

Andrew.D.Wicks

U.S.A v Brazil
==============

Well it makes sense to someone I guess why a Welshman who traversed the U.S 
last year to see Scotland, Ireland, Italy and Portugal play should do it all
over again this year but this time to see Brazil, Germany and England.

leaving Atlanta on a saturday night it was sunny, about 90 degrees and too
bloody humid for my liking. arriving in Hartford Connecticut some two hours
late it was overcast, chucking it down with rain and about 40 degrees cooler
- I must be close to the football I thought!

Waking early on the Sunday morning I peered nervously through the curtains
to find it was still dark? - no stupid I hadn't opened my eyes - it was still
overcast, relatively cool and the rain had just about stopped.

I had arranged to meet Tom Hill (as in "The Late Tom Hill") and Frank "aldo"
Way down at one of the few remaining DIGITAL offices in New england in Rocky
Hill (Rocky is apparently a cousin of Tom's) and so I proceeded down I-91
stopping only for Coffee a'la Macdonalds arriving well before the 11am meeting
hour.

Frank turned up just after me and Tom keeping up his record was Late as usual.
I hadn't met them in a year since Aldo's mesmerising performance against
the portuguese so we talked for a while until someone remembered that we had
a football game to go to way down in New Haven so we piled into my rental
car and continued southwards. Tom was in charge of directions - I only knew
to turn right or left when we hit the water.

The game was being played at the Yale bowl part of Yale University (Yale
is a bit poncy like Oxford or Cambridge) and we didn't have much trouble
finding a traffic-jam full of Brazilians to follow (Connecticut has a large
portuguese community) at which point Frank fell in love for the first and not
the last time that day with the Brazilian babes! Would they know all about
the great Aldo and his impressive scoring record (double entendre!)

 We were herded into a fairly elaborate filtering system, where 3 lanes of
traffic became 2 and then 1 (each time I was in the wrong one) before the
single file queue went up hill, down dale, round a gym, through a trail
and across a horse field to our car park.

once parked we opened the beers, talked more footie and checked out the
Brazilian support - well at least the female ones - you've seen them on
TV and they're just as good close up. I'm all for playing Brazil more
often - they're a damn sight prettier than the scottish supporters.

about an hour before kick-off we decided to go inside (beer was low) and
it was soon apparent why Yale wasn't selected as a world cup venue. there
was one gap in a chain link fence for an entrance with temporary turnstiles
stuck into the ground. The refreshments were almost non-existant (less than
even Elm park) - one visibly hot-dog stand. oh and there was 1 bathroom on
this side of the stadium which is supposed to hold 70,000 - obviously
people with strong bladders only - and no beer for sale!!!

The worst was yet to come, the entrance to our seats was down a long dark 
tunnel with a gate at one end. Now i've been to Hillsborough (before the 
tragedy) and many other pre-roman English league grounds and I don't recall
ever seeing a deathtrap on this scale. FIFA got one decision right when
they turned this place down.

Inside the stadium it is as it's name suggests a bowl shape dug into a small 
hill with bench-like seats all the way round and no cover. the sidelines 
are in mock-roman (or was it greco-roman?) architecture with concrete steps
down onto the field and almost to the touchline.

The crowd was almost all green and yellow Brazilian flags, footie shirts 
oh and those Brazilian babes! whatever Americans were there seemed to have 
brought entire youth teams. very few American flags. without Aldo to support
who was away preparing to annihilate Latvia we decided to cheer for Dunga.

The U.S team was short 3 players still in europe (wynalda, Dooley, ramos)
and Hugo Perez in Saudi Arabia. brazil were short Romario but otherwise
appeared near full-strength and included a lot of players from sao Paulo
the copa Libertadores champions.

The U.S also ommitted quinn (who was born in Northern ireland), Kinnear
who had played for Motherwell and some other previous starters in MAx-Moore,
Balboa and murray but had john Harkes in a 3-man midfield, wegerle as one of
the two strikers and 5 at the back.

Brazil in an apparent 4-4-2 formation had from the 90 world Cup I saw
Taffarel in goal (Carlos at 37 was in the squad), Julio Caesar and Branco were 
still there. in midfield Dunga (junior at 38 was in the squad - time to recall 
Glenn Hoddle?). Up front was Careca - but no place for Muller, bebeto, Ronato
- what a hell of a team.

Well the drums started - the Brazilian national anthem apparently starts
and ends with instrumental verses as the crowd only sang the middle 7 verses
and it was almost time for kick-off.

Brazil started quickly, maybe keen to impress their huge support which must
have been about 75% of the 44,000 in the crowd and after 5 minutes they were
in front. A free-kick on the left side of the box, the U.S defence rushed out
leaving 3 brazilians well off-side, the kick came in and careca nonchalantly
put it away. then it was like slow motion as everyone realised that the linesman
hadn't raised his flag and was running back towards the half-way line.
the Brazilians went wild and the entire U.S side rushed after the linesman

I know that the referee is always right (well at least Jeff-the-ref) but this
was appalling. All the U.S players were outside the box, the 3 Brazilians were
inside and that white 18-yard line across the pitch is a dead give away. only
days later on TV did I see that the linesman had been nowhere near the 18-yard
line instead he was standing on the corner flag - can someone (jeff?) explain
to me what the **** he was up to. I'm all in favour of restoring the death 
penalty for bad offside calls (:==:)

The U.S heads sunk and they really never recovered as their badly organised
5-man defence struggled against the 2-man Brazilian attack. sometime they
appeared to be playing 3 right-backs, the left-back was abysmal and only
Armstrong looked like a defender. 

The U.S midfield was anonymous or invisible and Brazil picked up any U.S attack
before it crossed halfway. the Brazilians who were only warming up for Copa
America and the world-Cup qualifications looked really impressive and cohesive
and their inter-play was artistic, fast and accurate. Luisinhio hit the
side-net and elivelton (no not Evil Elton) hit the post and half-time they
really should have been 4-0 up. The u.s apparently had one shot but I don't
remember it unless it was one of the Brazilian defenders who sent a powerful
back-header goalwards forcing Taffarel to save.

at half-time the Brazilians left to loud applause, singing and drum beating
and Tom left in search of some beer - returning with a red liquid he claimed
was Watney's red Barrel!!! 

we had a couple of substitutes at half-time - the U.S swopped strikers
(why their problem was further back?) - the brazilians exchanged midfielders
and then the u.S swopped another defender but still their two worst players
remainded on the field.

as Dunga wasn't getting much of the ball in the 2nd half i switched my tactics
to heckling Wegerle. frank had already started picking on john doyle who
was clearly related to Tony adams.

The Brazilians slowed the game down, keeping possession and looked 3 leagues
above the u.S - there weren't as many shots on goal but it was still 
different to watching an aerial battle involving wimbledon. Frank suddenly
spotted that no U.S attack could start without Armstrong touching the ball.
players who crossed half-way with the ball were yelled at and had to play
the ball all the way back to their own 18-yard line for des to touch the ball.
Had the brazilian put 2 men on Des the entire U.S game plan would have been 
nullified (graham taylor didn't notice this either)

As the game wore on Brazil brought on rai and Cafu the two hottest
properties in Brazil (rai is socrates's younger brother) and the u.s responded
by swopping one of their less effective players for another... and then 3 
minutes from the end Luis Carlos winck got a 2nd goal but it could have been
so many more.

We waited a while after the game but it was still a crush getting out of that
tunnel and through the narrow gate and we found the car in the now crowded
car park because Frank headed up to where "The Great Aldo would have parked it"
and found it before tom or I. We drank some more beer, watched some more
women and talked some more football until we could move the car.

Then following Frank's short-cut through new haven we drove for ever through
areas of boarded up houses, drug-dealers and prostitutes before finally arriving
back on I-91 before we would have ran out of petrol. At Rocky Hill I dropped 
tom and frank off at their cars and headed back to Hartford for a post-match 
bevvy at the HArtford Brewing Company an excellent brew pub on Pearl St. their
ESB was ok (too cold) but their Porter was excellent stuff

and so to bed but as we all agreed there was no way that the U.S we had seen
today would be able to keep the score down against England - little did we 
know...

Your man on the spot

Atlanta's Most Infamous Welshman

297.53U.S.A 2 England 0 - an alternative match reportAIMTEC::WICKS_AU.S.A 2 England 0 - I was there!Mon Jun 21 1993 06:32202
    Part 2 of war-and-Peace aka "a welshman on tour with Graham Taylor's mighty
    men" sees your correspondent in Foxboro (Boston) for the historic U.S
    defeat of england.
    
    regards,
    
    andrew.d.wicks
    
    U.S.A 2 England 0 - Foxboro June 9th 1993
    =========================================
    
    Little did I know when I was visiting Mark twain's house or Longfellow's
Wayside Inn in the two days following the Yale game that I would be witnessing
something far more historic on tuesday evening at Foxboro stadium in Mass.
Certainly following the recent performances of both the U.S and england
everything pointed to a boring 0-0 draw

This time I met Tom and Frank at the DIGITTAL MRO facility but even though
Frank and i had both driven all the way up from Connecticut it was the late
Tom Hill who was late as usual for the 2.30pm rendevezous. The grill, food
and the essential beers were loaded into the back of the rental car and we 
headed the 20 or so miles down I-495 to foxboro stadium sight of many previous
football games against eire, italy and Portugal.

Pulling into the empty car park nearest the stadium three initial attempts to 
park were thwarted by the Fascist Parking company of New england who seem to 
have the franchise for parking at foxboro - so watch out for them next year!

the grill was started and the beers were opened - some bass Ale to celebrate
the visit of mighty england (:==:) and a particularly fine bottle of Pete's
wicked Ale from San Francisco - if you come over next year check out 
Microbreweries like this one as they do make some really good beer - yes even
for  americans.

We talked about wales's victory over the Faroes and about what might be 
happening thousands of miles away as The Great Aldo took on latvia and norway
met Holland in important world cup qualifiers.

as the car park filled it was obvious that there were an awful lot of english 
fans here - a white van pulled up near us and disembarked a bunch of people
including two west Ham supporters (yes half their total support). there were
leeds shirts, lots from Man city (why???) but I never did locate the one Boro
supporter in the U.S - sorry Alan but I looked until the rain started.

an hour before the game having eaten the food and with only enough beer left
for after the game we started to go inside and sure enough the heavens opened
and it absolutely belted it down with rain. obviously having been advised
about English football hooligans the stadium authorities has banned umbrella's
- this decision was extremely popular with footbll mums and dads who
had brought their kids and entire school teams to the game - I heard one
middle aged lady ask the security guard for his name so she could write to
his boss and i'm sure a few bemused senators/congressman received some letters
about infringement of civil liberties - this is America after all.

tom was sporting the latest in american soccer hooligan outfit known as the
old black dustbin bag, whereas frank had the mexican poncho look on. we waited
beneath the stands until the rain mercifully abaited just before kick-off but
long enough to see the scores of the eire game (we just sensed that aldo had 
scored) and from Norway. Taking our seats near the touchline in row 12 we 
mentioned to Tom how awful these seats were and he'd better do better next year!
we'd brought along an entire Boston Globe to sit on since the seats were soaken
- whoever said American journalism and all those advertising supplements didn't
have value - it definitely stopped a case of wet bottie!!

The U.S had made a couple of changes from Sunday bringing in the players who
weren't available then so Dooley, ramos and wynalda came in for Murray, 
henderson and Harbor. frank who had decided that Doyle was the worst player
anywhere in the world was stunned that he was still in the team but he had
someone to heckle at least - and wegerle was there so I could boo him. Tom
sporting a nifty Denmark outfit (No I don't know why) looked on.

England played with woods in goal, Dixon at left-back (don't they have
anyone decent?), Dorigo at right-back and Pallister and palmer at centre-back
- this one was particularly bemusing - did arsenal buy all the english
centre-backs and refuse to release them or something. In midfield there was
Sharpe on one side and the great john barnes on the other with ince and batty
(nora?) in the midfield. up front was les ferdinand and the newly Liverpool
signed Nigel Clough. so no Platt, gazza or Shearer. the absence of tony
adams was sorely missed since we had been practising our donkey impressions!
and with gazza not here what were we going to do with all those Mars Bars?.

What can I remember from the first half well let's see everyone looked
uncomfortable on a wet field (surely the Mancs at least should be used to one)
but the U.S back 5 looked a lot more solid than they had against Brazil. the
midfield with Ramos and dooley were actually in the game as opposed to whoever
was supposed to have been playing there on Sunday though. the 5-4-1 formation
still seemed a little strange but even if it was more effective with Wynalda 
up front you figure they ought play with two forwards if they want to win 
anything.

as for england well Dorigo looked solid, Palmer was hopeless at centre-back
- surely he's a midfielder and I wasn't too impressed by the batty-ince
partnership in midfield - gascoigne and Platt must be a better bet. ferdinand
up front ran a lot but I was never really sure whether it was Barnes or Clough
that was supposed to be partnering him and neither did they!

the U.S started brightly and either played or were allowed to play a more
settled and composed game than they had against Brazil. England though didn't
look as bad as reports in the newspapers or the notes file had suggested
- they weren't good but they weren't as bad as i'd expected.

about 10 minutes before half-time ferdinand decided he'd had enough of
wasting his time trying to play with barnes/clough and went off to be 
replaced by Ian (I play for the arse so i'm a hard guy) wright.

and then on 38 mins with the game drifting towards the expected halftime 0-0
draw agoos crossed the ball beyond the england defence, ramos pulled it back and
Dooley headed it in from the 6-yard line. Tom and Frank went wild, I was
thinking whether I should go and call Jon or grahame (:==:)

england were roundly booed off at halftime by their travelling support - I 
thought I heard a distinctly scottish accent yell "you're worse than bloody
scotland" - but he didn't sound too disappointed to me. the 3 of us joined
in with shouts of "taylor out' - it seemed to be the right thing to do. I
went back in the stands in search of jeff-the-ref and gerry but failed to find
either of them - gerry being english was probably hiding from me.

over halftime the 37,00 crowd was even treated to the world-cup scores an 
unheard of thing in the u.s. The norway-holland score brought no reaction
from the english fans but the eire result sent a few people in irish shirts
behind the goal into dances of delight - eire winning and england losing was
clearly too much excitement for one night. we knew of course that TGA had got
one of the goals - the night was so good it just had to be true.

The second-half started with no team changes but with england playing towards
us their failings were more noticeable. Palmer was completely out-of-his-depth
at centre-half and the 3-man england front line had no idea where on that line 
each of them should be playing and they kept running into each other. Poor lee 
sharpe at one point beat a defender and crossed from the left only to find all 
3 standing at the near post checking out the number of their hairdressers! 
couldn't graham Taylor see this too - surely he could have told one of them to
play on the right or far post assuming they do know their right from their left
that is. 

despite this england somehow had the better chances - two from nigel clough
one a shot and the other a free-kick both well saved by meola. after 60 minutes
taylor finally decided that a second centre-half might be a good idea and on
came walker for palmer - to defend the 1-0 defeat obviously. so the U.s 
responded by replacing the injured Dooley (who had been hacked severely by
the skilful Paul ince) with alexei Lalas - who looks exactly like Catweazle
and they also took wynalda off and replaced him by Ernie stewart who plays
in Holland.

And then on 68 minutes it happened - Ramos sent a corner in from the left
which lalas met unchallenged with a powerful header into the back of the net.
The U.S contingent went wild and despite being nominally a resident of
reading england I could contain my joy no more. I had seen Costa rica beat
scotland on grahame's TV and still remember the look on Alan's face but this 
was even better an embarrasing england defeat witnessed live - I wish we could
have seen Jon or grahame's faces flashed up on the big screen at the end of the
field at that point. as the cheering died down Tom, frank and I talked about
how many scottish and irish based noters would be wishing the English well in
the notesfile as soon as they logged in.

Lalas in an extreme sporting gesture that you may have seen on TV rushed towards
the England, sank to his knees and shook his fists at the ENglnd bench. In
baseball or hockey (and naturally at highbury) that would have started a 
full-scale  riot.

at this point with 20 minutes to go and with their first loss to the u.S in 43
years on the cards you would have expected a more attacking England - you know 
consolation goal or revenge but no taylor stuck with the players who had got 
him this far wright who had quite a good game when he had managed to avoid the 
tackles of Barnes and clough had two good chances both of which were 
excellently saved by Meola. in all the despondency it should be pointed out 
that england actually outshot the U,S by 3 to 1 though it doesn't seem like 
that and they still weren't as bad as the score suggests but you have to 
question the formation and the tactics.

gradually the u.s realised they were going to win this game and defended the
lead and england were booed extensively at the end of the game. we had witnessed
history - 1950 was over a decade before i was born and as we said the next
time this will happen Tom, frank and i will be in our 70's!!! - but for this
one moment I can say "I was there"

Tom and frank set off for the car, leaving me and the irish supporters to
go over to the players tunnel to help the English supporters boo off the England
team (I didn't enjoy it honest - though I did mention one 4-1 result at wrexham)
and that scottish guy was there again, see all of the 4 nations can unite in
at least one common goal - booinG Graham taylor.

I purchased my souvenier shirt of the game so I can show it to Jon when
i'm next in reading - or get it out whenever English people visit Atlanta! and 
then I joined Tom and Frank at the car for some more beers - the bass tasted 
much sweeter. we also had a kick-about game of football and talk turned to next 
year's world cup - without England or Scotland who would provide the necessary
light relief from 40 0-0 draws and then penalty shoot-outs.

I left Tom and Frank in marlboro having said my goodbye's for another year
(one day someone will make a movie out of this!!) and set off extremely
tired but happy for hartford 

The song "at the end of a perfect day" came to mind and I thought
"june 9th 1993 U.S.A 2 England 0, Foxboro Mass"

"I was there!"

Your man on the spot,

Atlanta's Most Infamous Welshman.


297.54PLUNDR::LOWEGYou don&#039;t want to do it like that!!Mon Jun 21 1993 10:187
    
    
    I take it their not very strict on drink driving in America !!!!
    
    
    
    g.
297.55Entertaining enough....GYMAC::DCASSIDYMon Jun 21 1993 10:3826
    
    I'm afraid it was a case of Men against boys in Pontiac. The trio from
    Bayern certainly ran the show, Helmer, Matthaus and Ziege with Zieg
    being for me man of the match. Most interesting comment from Trevor
    Brooking on some of the German players...'Maybe it's time the English
    FA took a leaf out of Jack Charlton's book and see if any of the
    Germans had English grannies or grandads...'
    
    Fully entertaining game, with the best of the English being Merson,
    Ince and Pallister. The score itself was close, but how many times did
    you see England 'playing' football in the German half. They seemed
    intent on a basketball like 24 second clock to get a shot in once they
    had possession. Still, like has been often said, England are now of
    course waiting for the likes of Shearer, Gascoigne and Pearce to
    bolster up their performances. I hope when the time comes that these
    are back in the team, that possible injuries to Ince, Merson or
    Pallister don't try to cover up for further inept performances, the
    inadequecy of the England management team.
    
    One last note, the England goal was sheer class, the potential IS
    there. It's a shame it not being tapped!!
    
    Cheers,
    
    Dezzz.
                                             
297.56IOSG::HOLTDDave HoltMon Jun 21 1993 10:430
297.57I'm no expert but...IOSG::HOLTDDave HoltMon Jun 21 1993 11:0720
Up until the Poland game I thought England were shaping up OK but these last
five matches were dreadful. How can Taylor expect to win games when he plays
Clough and Barnes in the same team? Both looked like they wanted to be anywhere
but playing for England and I don't personally think Clough will last one season
at Liverpool. He actually is a First Division player, not a Premier Div player.

The real long term problem for England is that we don't actually have many
athletes and little stamina. The U.S., Norway, Brazil and (always) Germany over
powered us with sheer athleticism and if you watch the Italian football on
Channel 4 you can see why we have so few exports. How many shots did we have on
target throughout the U.S. tournament? How many of our players are capable of
hitting the ball hard enough outside the box to beat a world class 'keeper?
Ince, Gascoigne, Merson, Barnes (curlers only) er......We limit our options
before taking the field. 

Dave Holt (struck down by knee ligament injury one Sunday in the park, just as I
	            was about to sign professionally at 33)



297.58Excellent stuff Andrew....KBOMFG::TANNERSomeone somewhere in summertime!!!!!!Mon Jun 21 1993 12:1026
    Andrew those were some of the best match reports I have ever read. Those
Brazilian babes are something else. I can relate to you in that sense!!!!! I 
spent one hell of a weekend down in Turin during WC90, where Brazil were based
and it was there I learnt Samba and Lambada!!!!!!!

   I thought England played some good footie on saturday night, and in my eyes
John Barnes had one of his better games for England, even though he was partly
to blame for the German winner. Ince and Platt were also impressive but if Adams
is a donkey then Pallister must be a close relative (camel)... 

   Best Germans on view were (in my eyes) just two Bayern players Helmer and
Ziege, and Effenberg my personal MOTM. Dezzz we both know what Matth�us is  
capable of, and he didn't produce the goods, its's just a pity that Vogts doesn't
see this and also have the coconuts to take him off. I wonder which midfielder
he'll take off when Thomas H�ssler returns who is the best midfield player
the Germans have. He missed out on the Tournament because of club commitments
(As Rome) as well as Thom and Kirsten both forwards from Bayer Leverkusen.

   Overall I enjoyed the games, and the tournament was a big success, unless of
course your an English fan.

                                                                   -dave-

P.s Does anybody out there know if Jimmy Hill and Heribert Fassbender (German
    commentator) are related???? They both talk the same rubbish, Heribert went
    even as far as to call Graham Taylor a Genius.... 
297.59Waldorf and Statler...KBOMFG::KOEPPEThink Imaginary...Mon Jun 21 1993 12:318
    RE .58 Heribert Fassbender:
    
    In fact he called Graham Taylor twice a very INTELLIGENT coach, who
    didn't deserve the criticism he get's in the English press!!!
    
    Heribert Fassbender and Karl-Heinz Rummenigge for the Muppets Show. :-)
    
    Eduard
297.60soccer indoors - a hitKAOA09::TROU31::MCCANNMon Jun 21 1993 15:0269
	Twenty of us made the trip from Whitby (near Toronto) to take in the
	England - Germany game at the Pontiac Silverdome. It is about a 5 hour
	drive to the Silverdome which is home to the Detroit Lions NFL football
	team - why they are called the Detroit Lions is beyond me as the Dome
	is out in the middle of nowhere, miles from Detriot.

	The game was to begin at 2:00pm, we arrived about noon to setup our
	tailgate get together. There was no alcohol served inside the Dome
	but all of the local bars had the beer flowing as there was no alcohol
	free zone around the dome which was threatened. The one bar inside 
	the stadium was closed due to a private General Motors party.

	Security inside and outside the Dome was very visible. In talking
	with one of the ushers, she mentioned that security staff was 
	doubled for the game as compared to an NFL game. Also there are
	usually 80,000 fans for the NFL games while there were only 62,000
	for the soccer game. There was a huge police presence and also
	special SWAT teams camped out in the back of U-Haul trucks and there
	was a police helicopter circling the Dome.

	We went inside the stadium about 1:15 to catch the warm-ups. Inside
	was truly a terrific sight. The natural grass pitched looked in
	perfect condition. Normally we see the artifical surf on the TV for
	the football games but seeing the natural grass inside the Dome was
	terrific. There was a little history behind the grass displayed on
	the Dome TV, the grass was originally grown in California and shipped
	in refrigerated trucks to Detroit a couple of weeks before the game.
	This game was to be a test as there are 5 World Cup game scheduled
	for next year at this site.

	The game itself was very entertaining although as someone mentioned
	earlier, it was truly the men vs the boys. The Germans looked strong,
	fit and more skillful then the disorganized panic-stricken English.
	The English couldn't seem to able to string more than a couple of
	passes together while at one point, the Germans strung 18 consecutive
	passes together before putting in a cross. The English were never
	able to get possession of the ball, they had numerous goal kicks
	but ended up kicking the long ball ensuring a fifty-fifty chance of
	Germany getting the ball. The German keeper on the other hand very
	rarely kicked the ball, he was always allowed to distribute the ball
	to his full-backs as the Engligh never pressured the Germans, the
	Germans were allowed to play their game.

	It was also apparent that the English lacked heart, they didn't 
	seem to have the desire or the will to win, they didn't seem to
	want to play for each other or support each other. On numerous
	occasions the Germans were on the break and the English midfield
	were just walking back especially Sinton and Clough. This was what
	happened on the first German goal, no one came back to support
	Pallister and the German was able to cut back against an over
	committed Pallister and had plenty of time to slip the ball into
	the net. Most of the people I was with and the people we met were
	very disappointed with the intensity and the heart of the English
	but we also respected how good the Germans were, they were in 
	control most of the game and really should of scored more than the
	2 goals.

	However it was still a very entertaining experience even though 
	we got soaked leaving the Dome as there was a raging thunderstorm
	after the game. We are certainly looking forward to next year. The
	other guys and myself that went down are members of a soccer club
	and we just purchased 100 tickets, 20 tickets for 5 World Cup games
	in Orlando Florida. We originally were trying for Boston but they 
	were all sold out so we had to settle for Orlando. Of course we
	don't know who's going to be playing but we're guessing Brazil will
	be seeded in Orlando - it doesn't matter we're going to enjoy the
	experience no matter who plays.

Regards...your man on the spot outside Detriot...Jim
297.61Jim Are ya any relation to the man that sings those ballad songs back home?????KBOMFG::TANNERSomeone somewhere in summertime!!!!!!Mon Jun 21 1993 16:080
297.62sorry KAOA09::TROU31::MCCANNMon Jun 21 1993 16:423
	No, its definitely not me - I can't sing a note.

Jim
297.63I remember those CanadiansAIMTEC::WICKS_AU.S.A 2 England 0 - I was there!Mon Jun 21 1993 17:4313
    Jim,
    
    great match report - had I known that you and the rest of the team were
    going down to Detroit I might have asked my bank manager for an
    overdraft Please say hello to everyone for me as i'm sure they
    remember that strange Welshman from last year!
    
    Are you going to see the Canada v Australia game or is it at the other
    end of the country?
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks
297.64canada vs australiaKAOA09::TROU31::MCCANNMon Jun 21 1993 18:2012
	No we won't be going to this game as it is almost in the Arctic
	in Edmonton which is only about 2000 miles away from Toronto.
	Besides we have our club golf tournament that day.

	Nice to hear from you Andrew, I have been in reading some notes
	but I don't really have as much time as I would like. Hopefully
	you can extend your stay and maybe we will see you next year in
	Orlando. We will definitely be trying to arrange some games for
	us while we're down there and you're definitely welcome to join
	us.

Jim
297.65Questions, questions.....ICS::KETTMon Jun 21 1993 21:3751
    Having missed the live Sports Channel broadcast on Saturday afternnon,
    I settled down Sunday night at 10pm to watch the rebroadcast, in a
    carefully protected blissful state of ignorance of the outcome of the
    game on Saturday. Ever the optimist, I hoped that England would rise to
    the occasion and smite the Old Enemy once again, just like in '66. 
    
    Nice goal by Platt, (He really is the only one who looks like he's
    serious about playing for his country. I saw him actually retrieve the
    ball for the German 'keeper several times after the ball had gone out
    of play, as if to say, "Let's get on with this.") with a great pass
    from Ince to set it up. For the 10 minutes right before the Platt goal,
    England actually looked like they wanted to see the ball in the back of
    the German net. For the first 20 minutes of the first half, and for
    almost the whole of the second half, the Germans were in complete
    control of the game. 
    
    I can't remember how many times we'd see an English clearance from the
    goal area, or an English goal kick, and, as the ball is sailing upfield
    and the Sports Channel cameraman is furiously panning to catch up with
    it, I'm thinking, "Now let's see which red shirt that's been cleared
    to," only to see the damn thing fall to one of a row of three German
    defenders strung out all the way across the field. By midway through
    the second half, I was getting so irate with these senseless turnovers
    that I was talking quite loudly at the TV and acutally woke up my
    slumbering wife, who'd been roundly put to sleep by the compelling
    play. Big mistake....she continued the razzing that's been a non-stop
    feature of life my our house since we saw the Foxboro debacle.
    
    My question for those of you who were there, and not subject to the
    lousy Sports Channel camera work, is as follows: where the heck was the
    English front line when all these massive boots upfield were happening?
    Were England only playing with 9 men for most of the second half? (I
    know they momentarily went back up to 10 at one point, 'cos Barnes
    slipped back on the field to make the lateral pass to a white shirt
    that set up the second German score. He promptly disappeared again for
    the rest of the half right after this, so I assume he left the field
    for the trainer's bench and a rest.) I keep reading in this notes
    conference and elsewhere about the 5-KICKS-AND-THEN-ITS-A-GOAL
    strategy, and I assume that was what I was seeing at work, but if thats
    the case, how come we only ever seemed to have
    1-KICK-AND-THEN-HAVE-THE-HUNS-SHOVE-IT-RIGHT-BACK? When are the other
    four kicks and the score supposed to happen? Whatever happened to the
    idea that it's OK to have a full back clear the ball from the goalbox
    to a waiting halfback at the side of the field, who will then play the
    ball forward to an open winger, who will then take on and beat his man
    at midfield, etc? 
    
    Please, will someone respond? Inquiring minds want to know......
    
    Regards,
    Alan  
297.66Brazil 3 Germany 3AIMTEC::WICKS_AU.S.A 2 England 0 - I was there!Tue Jun 22 1993 05:29158
Part 3 of 4 in this mini-series soon to be major motion picture (:==:)
    
This is the shortest of the 4 match reports (don't all cheer at once) primarily
because I forgot to write up my notes that evening and was too nackered to do it
the next day.

Brazil v Germany  - Washington D.C June 10th 1993
=================================================

Well after almost a full 4 hours sleep I got up at the ungodly hour of 5am
to catch the only direct jet flight from Hartford to Washington D.C at 7.05am.
It was still only 9am when I arrived in the Nation's capital so I checked
into my hotel before 10 and had a good 3 hours kip - there is something 
delightfully sinful about going to bed at 10 in the morning, like sleeping
with your high school teacher (:==:)

Driving back into D.C just after 1pm it almost felt like a Sunday
afternoon. I stopped to pick up a copy of the washington post and yes it
was true england had lost to the U.S the night before - was that really
only 18 hours ago? had I really been there? what was I missing in the
notesfile?

RFK stadium is dead-easy to find off I-295, they even sent me a map and 
directions when I bought my ticket - they don't do that at selhurst park!
so I arrived in plenty of time. The temperature was an incredible 95 degrees
at 2pm in the afternoon - for someone who grew up in cardiff that is easily
at least 45 degrees too hot and could be a problem for the east coast day
games in next years finals (the same problem will affect the west coast
day games also)

Brazil brought in Jorginhio for Luis Carlos and Rai for Boiadero so still
no place for Muller or Bebeto. Germany lined up Koepke (not Illgner), Helmer,
Kohler, Buchwald, Zorc, Moeller, Effenberg, Ziege, Matthaus, sammer and 
klinsmann (dive, dive, dive) , haessler hadn't made the trip, thon injured 
himself in the warm-up and there was no place for Karl-heinze reidle the best 
German player in my opinion.

the pitch was very wide, well seeded and extremely green unlike the
surface at Foxboro and from what i've seen of the other wc pitches this
may be the best one by a long shot.

To say the first-half was one-sided would be an understatement - if this
ws a boxing match the ref would have stopped it after 30 minutes to allow
the german undertakers to come on the field and give the German side a decent
burial! It was so one-sided you wondered why the score at the half was only
3-0. this was vintage Brazil the stuff that they keep showing on the TV
from the 1970s when we were all small children in front of probably a 
black-and-white TV.

There was one classic moment where Careca completely took the piss out of the
Germans and touched the ball about 12 teams on foot, knee and chest without
the ball touching the ground.

Brazil's midfield controlled the game. Rai who is on his way to Paris St Germain
for next season was all he had been hyped to be. Dunga looked good too and 
branco's free-kicks made Stuart pearce look like a nancy boy.

at one free-kick early on to the left and outside the penalty area Branco
hit it with his left-foot around the right-hand side of the wall and it looked 
to be heading perfectly into the top-right corner of the goal. As soon as it 
passed the wall the ball changed its mind and took a 90 degree turn to the left
and instead headed toward the top-left corner. Koepke was stranded but the ball 
missed the post by inches. from roughly behind the kick where I was the curve
of the ball just took my breath away - this was worth the admission price alone.

after 13 minutes a cross from Luisinhio hit the gernman defender Helmer who
couldn't get out of the way and put the ball into his own-net. After 32 minutes
Careca was wrestled to the ground in the area and he put away the resulting
penalty (his 30th goal in 60 games) and then 9 minutes later Luisinhio
easily beat the German defence and the goalie for the third.

Half-time couldn't come quick enough for the Germans but the brazilians
left to a standing ovation, lots of drums and singing and three particularly
attractive Brazilian supporters of the female persuasion doing the samba in 
tight white leotards that I can't mention in a family notesfile such as this!!!

in the second-half Riedle was brought on to partner Klinsmann up front - the
poor guy had seen so little of the ball in the first half that he hadn't
even had the chance to do a decent dive!

The brazilians had stepped down at least two gears, whether because of the
heat or the 3-0 lead I don't know, and whilst still playing neat attractive
football were no where like the fast, attractive breathtaking football
team of before.

the temperature was now a mere 90 degrees for the crowd of 34,000
(not bad for a weekday afternoon)

you still couldn't see germany scoring and after 57 minutes they introduced
strunz to midfield who seemed a good player. then after 66 minutes a tired
clearance by Julie caesar fell to Ziege who passed the ball to klinsmann
who whopped it into the net to bring the score down to 3-1, somehow he managed
to injure himself in the process and stayed off the field for a minute - still
surely it was nothing but a consolation goal?

Then on 74 minutes Germany introduced michael schultz. he is one of the tallest
players i've ever seen - he's listed at 6 4 but looks much taller and looks
like a basketball player. he also has a very strange antelope like run and is
one of the most scary players I've ever seen. Hans pieter Briegel I remember
looked like a brick s**thouse but this player redefines the term. the poor
5 ft 4 Brazilians must have wondered whether the guy dieted on raw meat and
certainly hoped he'd been fed that morning! (you don't get match reports
like this in the Guardian you know).

With the three changes in the german line-up and particularly the agressive
running of Riedle you could now see the Germans getting a second - the 
Brazilians were definitely tiring as well as sitting on the lead. they made
3 substitutions at this point to introduce fresh legs but it certainly
upset the balance of their side.

on 80 minutes Riedle hit a relatively accurate shot at Taffarel who failed
to hold it and Moeller tapped the rebound in to make it 3-2

It was now only a matter of time before the Germans equalised but the time
on the stadiun clock said 00:00. the americans in the crowd and especially
the Brazilians either headed for the exits or booed the ref assuming that
as in basketball or American football that 00:00 means game over. In
football here in the U.S the stadium clock is switched off when 2 minutes
of regular time remains (after 88 mins for you mathematicians) irrespective of
how many minutes there are left - an important lesson for you Irish fans
who will be casting aspersions on the ref's parentage next year as you stoughtly
defend a 1-0 lead (Aldo of course) in the quarter-final against argentina.
Sure enough in this game there was about 7 minutes play after the clock stopped.

In about the 93rd minute old neantherdal man Michael schultz threw a ball in
from the left touchline that bounced over two standing Brazilians, and once
in front of Taffarel before Klinsmann headed it in at chest height to the
sheer relief of the German bench and their supporters who had taken no end
of stick from the brazilians prior to that.

what is it about the german football team over the last 20 years that makes
me think that they have an eternal Monopoly 'Get-out-of-Jail-free' card?
that they can play at will. There was no way they should have been less than
totally humilitated by this brazilian team, but they finished stronger and
would have won the game in extra-time or on penalties just like you know
they will in the finals next year.

ah well it had still been a great game and if this wasn't the best South
american team versus the best European team then i'll eat mike fowler's hat
for him (:==:).

it was still only 6pm (and 80 degrees) so i waited for the washington rush-hour
traffic to clear and followed East capitol st and then Connecticut avenue 
through the city of D.C up to the 3500 block where there is a bar called
Ireland's Four Provinces. It's right next to the Cleveland Park underground
station so you can get there and back safely if you don't want to drive. It 
serves a wicked pint of Guinness (and yes it's at room temperature), some 
excellent Irish Stew and other delicacies such as lamb which I had and i'd 
highly recommend it for next year. after 7 it also has 'traditional' Irish
sing-a-long music - you know Wild Rover and all that stuff!!

And after that long day a well needed 12 hours sleep to recharge my batteries.

You man on the spot in the nation's capital,

Atlanta's Most Infamous Welshman.


297.67KBOMFG::RFORSTRainer Forst SHR3-1/w7Tue Jun 22 1993 08:211
    -1: very colorfull description, respect!
297.68And finally... Brazil v EnglandAIMTEC::WICKS_AU.S.A 2 England 0 - I was there!Mon Jul 05 1993 18:45136
sorry this is 3 weeks late but today is the first chance I got to type my
    notes up - I promise no more match reports til next year.
    
    Hope that someone has enjoyed reading them.
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks
    
Brazil 1 england 1 - washington D.C June 13th
    
Well after 8 days on the road, 4 different hotel rooms and 2 rental cars this
was it - "the last day" - I could go back to Atlanta. I was ready for it and
I know for sure that my bank manager would be happy too!

But first I had one more game to see Brazil v England - obviously an easy
win for Brazil.

The game was scheduled for a 1pm start and given that it had been 95 degrees
for the Thursday game there was obviously some concern about the heat so
doused in suntan lotion I set off for the stadium. Luckily the temperature
was only to reach the upper 70s.

England's changes from the trouncing at the hands of the U.S were Flowers
for Woods in goal (how far have things sunk when a scummer gets picked for
the team). Walker for Palmer at centre-back, Barrett for Dixon at full-back
and sinton for Barnes in midfield.

On my way to my seat I passed Rodney Marsh and Ron Atkinson - thought you'd
like to know that - I thought about asking Big Ron how he could possibly
have let the Mancs win the league but the presence of two armed police officers
deterred me.

Brazil also made a couple of changes. Julio caesar who had 5 Rolex watches
(valued at 100,000!) and $50,000 in cash stolen from his hotel room had flown 
back to Italy to get more. i know security was obviously loose at the hotel 
but this guy must have no brains to leave such stuff lying around. Branco of 
the killer free-kicks was rested. Nonato and valber were the replacements.

The crowd was a sold-out 54,000 and some people who turned up without tickets
were obviously surprised, for the first time i saw people selling tickets
outside the stadium - the touts had arrived.

england's defence looked a lot more solid with two proper centre-backs.
Pallister looked sound and Walker whilst appearing to be unfit must be
better than Tony the Donkey.  Even though Barrett played well in his first 
game you wonder why England don't have any decent left-backs - they have tons 
of right-backs.

batty in midfield still failed to impress me and the return of Gazza and Platt
is the only hope that the English team doesn't descend to playing wimbledon
style. Sharpe looked ok but it would be easier for him if he had two forwards
to aim for with his crosses. On the other wing sinton didn't really do much
of note.

Clough didn't do a lot up front and sherringham somehow continued to sit on 
the bench. Wright wasn't as effective as he had been against the U.S but again
he probably needs someone like hirst or shearer alongside him.

England played very cautiously (as in the old Bobby Robson we went for a 0-0
draw style). brazil definitely showed the effects of three games in a week
and were nowhere near the standard they had been in the previous two games.

Rai and Cafu were very impressive and so to some extent was Evil Elton
(elivelton) on the wing. with the experience of players like Dunga and Jorginhio
to balance out the young players you have to fancy Brazil to make at least
the Quarter-Finals next year.

There were lots of english fans at the stadium, moreso than at Foxboro, and 
their banners surrounded the perimeter.

The first-half was scoreless but it was still a decent game. not a dour
offside struggle but not an end to end thriller either. The 3-1 score
from Chicago where Germany were playing suggested that those in front
of their TV sets were getting entertained a little more though.

about a minute after half-time Platt emerged to replace Batty and less than 
a minute later he headed a goal in at the far post - if only england had
some other players like him. At last the ENgland fans had something to
cheer.

The Brazilians neither went after a equaliser nor did they settle for a defeat
to a minor european nation they just kept playing the way they had before. Oh
no i thought I would have to witness a great England victory that would once
again confirm England's position as the best in the world and Graham taylor
would be knighted for his service to football. I could see the reruns of
Barnes's goal at the Maracana being rerun on BBC TV even then.

Brazil made two substituions bringing on Palinha and Almir wherease england
subsituted their captain (ince) with Palmer - Palmer even though he was now
in midfield was very anonymous and i can't say I remember him doing anything
in the game.

it really appeared that Brazil weren't going to score, until in the 77th minute
Marcia santos popped up to head a ball past two england defenders standing on 
the line with two more standing on the six-yard line watching him - something
to work on in training there I think.

brazil actually picked up the pace after that and actually looked for a winner
bringing two good saves out of Flowers - almost as many as he made in the first
80 minutes. Merson came on as sub for the last few minutes but the game finished
at 1-1 and I headed for my car and the drive to the airport.

What did england learn from this, well surely the need for a balanced midfield
and two strikers but given the formation Graham taylor played with later against
Germany its clear he learnt nothing. If they qualify for the World Cup then
it was a good warm-up but otherwise they may as well continue to do summer
tours of Australia or Saudi arabia!

What did I learn from all this, well given that next years road trip is a
mind-numbing 31 days instead of this mere 8 day one here's my tips for
irish amd welsh fans coming over:

1) a high credit-card limit
2) suntan lotion
3) whenever possible balance a real meal (say dinner at TGIFs) with those
   temptingly quick and cheap Big Macs.
4) lots of loose clothes and of course lots of clean clothes!
5) lots of water and soft-drinks in the heat is better than beer
   (particularly the crap american stuff)
6) good directions to/from stadiums and airports particularly if you 
   have to make a quick trip from one game to another by plane.
7) lots of sleep whenever you can.
8) books or magazine to read to take your mind off the football between games

so anyway about 4 hours after the game was over I was already back in
atlanta and i stopped for a beer at the 'local' pub on the way home prepared
to tell anyone and everyone how "USA 2 England 0 - I was there" but alas the
Braves were on TV and everyone seemed more interested in that - sigh.

anyway, same time next year 52 games in 31 days

signing off for this year - your man on the spot

Atlanta's Most Infamous Welshman

297.69DCEIDL::HINXMANDo not adjust your mind ...Wed Jul 07 1993 20:3910
	re .68

> for Woods in goal (how far have things sunk when a scummer gets picked for
> the team). Walker for Palmer at centre-back, Barrett for Dixon at full-back

	Dammit man, when England were a major footballing power and
	Southampton were in the second division there was a Southampton
	player playing for England.

	Tony
297.70XSTACY::MDUNPHYJust another Day!!Wed Jul 07 1993 21:414
Surely there isnt a connection between england playing well and a southampton
player in the side...tell me it isnt true!!!

	Mick