Conference trucks::football;1

                    <<< Note 258.0 by SUBURB::LAINSBURYA >>>
                     -< The 'long distance fan' syndrome. >-

  re above.

  Maybe this goes someway to exoplain why the self-styled "biggest club in
  the world" haven't sold all their season tickets.

  M Knighton  

    Well Andy,
    
    I've never lived any further north than Reading and have 'followed' Man
    Utd for the last 26 years.
    
    Why Utd ?
    
    As a lad of 5, watching that famous England side win the world cup, a
    certain R. Charlton scored a particularly special goal against some
    South American outfit.  I asked my Dad who he played for and followed
    them ever since.
    
    I have been to OT more times than I care to remember and have never
    bought a Utd shirt.
    
    The first time I saw them was at Upton Park on New Year's day 1971 when
    they lost 3-1.  Utd's scorer was the Great GB.
    
    
    Anything else you want to know ??
    
    
    
    Nev

    I too have lived in East Anglia all my life and have always supported
    Man Utd. The reason was because my father bought me a red and white
    football strip for my birthday, and, as far as I can remember, Utd were
    the first team I saw in these colours. I suppose it could have beed
    Arsenal or Liverpool but I've always been lucky!
    
    I too have visited OT many times, and have followed UTD around the
    grounds on this country and abroad. 
    
    The fist match I saw was against Ipswich Town, when wearing my prized
    kit with Bobby Charlton and Dennis Law rosettes pinned to my chest and
    a George Best picture on my Man Utd hat I stood on my fathers shoulders
    for 90 mins and watch Ipswich win 4-0!!!
    
    So I may not live close, and may not see that many games but at least I
    didn't swap to a "more successful" side after such an introduction!
    
    P.S. I did support Chelsea for approx 6 hours one summers day, as my
    "friend" Nick Bridge was an ardent fan and threatened to pan the lights
    our of me if I didn't!!
    
    Since 1978 I have placed #5 to win on Utd for the Championship.
    Obviously that is a total of 70 quid now and thats not counting
    inflation.
    
    Still, there are many ways to support a team. Those that are lucky
    enough stand/sit on the terraces. Us who can not do this week in week
    out, give what support we can. Normally in the form of an argument in
    the local or at work.
    
    Regs
    
    MG

    
    Well, Andy, i live in Gothenburg and support a Stockholm team called
    AIK and beleive me, supporting a Stockholm team in Gothenburg isn't
    easy!! 
    
    Last time AIK won the league was in 1947, but the have won the cup two
    times in tha last 15 years. I suppose you can't call it a successful
    club.
    
    Why do i support them? One thing is that when my family moved to
    Stockholm (i was seven years old), my brother took me to an AIK game.
    They won 5-0, and that was the start of it. They play in black shirts
    with yellow borders, and i thought their colours where nice. AIK also
    probably have the most beautiful club-badge(sp?) in the world. Later on
    i played for them for a few years.
    
    I have been a member since 1971, and i watch them every time they visit
    Gothenburg. They also play hockey in the first division (Elitserien).
    AIK was founded in 1891 and has been Swedish champions in football,
    hockey, handball, bandy and some other sports.
    
    One of the greatest AIK player was Putte Kock (Think of him as a pro in
    Britain :-)), he also played a number of caps for Sweden. One story about 
    him is when he past away and came up to Heaven and faced St. Peter. 
    St. Peter said that to pass the gates of Heaven he had to choose among two 
    things; Collect all the stones on earth in a bucket and bring it up to 
    heaven, or play a full 90 minute game for Djurg�rden (a local rival team) 
    against AIK. Putte simply said;
    
    "Give me the bucket"
    
    A true AIK-supporter.
    
    Mats
                                   

    
    Personally  I've always treated these "long distance fans" with
    suspicion - they generally have a good reason (kit etc.) to justify
    their support but I wonder why its always a *big* team they support ?
    
    I wonder why you dont get 14 million (to use the given ex.) reading
    fans in manchester ???
    
    These boys are bandwaggon jumpers - I think you should support your
    local side , thats why footer has been such an ingrained part of our
    society - the local side binds all together.
    
    response.

	Oh, I remember when I was knee high, I used to support Tottenham Hotspur
(yes Peter I'm afraid to admit it!!), but I hated the living daylight of SPURS.
Then one day, some bright spark in infant class revealed the horrifing TRUTH!!
They're one of the same thing. SO I said F&%^k this and did the logical thing
and went and supported the best club there's ever been


	Arsenal, Asrenal, Arsenal.......

and i've been smiling ever since, well almost 8^)

Mick

    
    I was born and bred in Scotland. I have moved a few places around
    Scotland, and always keep an interest on my previous home teams i.e.
    Alloa Athletic(Scot Div II), Dumbarton (Scot Div I), Glasgow Rangers as
    I was influenced by my father and also had a season ticket. I even go
    as far to keep up to date with Nairn County(Highland League) as this
    was my home birth town. If I ever visit these places I try sometimes to
    make an effort to attend.
    
    However I now live in England, as do some of  my relatives (Northern
    England). I again have been influenced by people to certain teams, as a
    kid that is. I went to watch both Man Utd and Man City, and made my own
    decision to follow Utd, not because they were a big team, purely on
    entertainment(you may laugh!!) value and the excitement of a big crowd.
    I also have been to a lot to OT, I even used to have a LMTB for a
    season. Been to Wembly a couple of times to see them, not many away
    matches apart from local sides. I must admit I have not been as often
    as I would like the last couple of seasons, but still read up on
    everything they do, and do not have a shirt. yet !
    On saying that I always look out for Oldham, and Stockport County  as
    again they are local teams, and now my home town team of Stalybridge
    Celtic(as per my title), are in the Vauxhall Conference League,
    promoted last year, just below Division 3. I see them a few times now.
    
    All in all people may live miles away but some things tie people to
    certain clubs, meeting a player, seeing them on TV a lot might help !!,
    where born just round the corner etc..., and quite a lot are
    heireditary i.e. your parents supported them as kids as so do you. On
    saying that my father is a City fan. I rest my case for a deprived
    childhood. :) 
    
    
    mac

    re .5     What a load of tosh !!
    
    >Personally  I've always treated these "long distance fans" with
    >suspicion - they generally have a good reason (kit etc.) to justify
    >their support but I wonder why its always a *big* team they support ?
    
    Why should any football supporter have to 'justify' their allegiances ?
    From my perspective I am interested in watching stylish/attractive
    soccer no matter where it be played, Man Utd IMO are more likely to
    provide the level of entertainment I require than most other sides in
    the English F.L.  also the atmosphere at most games is second to none
    and they haven't won a major championship for 25 years ;-).
    
    
    >I wonder why you dont get 14 million (to use the given ex.) reading
    >fans in manchester ???
    
    The library would run out of books  ;-).
    
    
    >These boys are bandwaggon jumpers - I think you should support your
    >local side , thats why footer has been such an ingrained part of our
    >society - the local side binds all together.
    
    Perhaps we could take this further and force all Brits to buy
    British/not take holidays abroad and really help Britain.
    
    I think in a free society, each individual has the right to follow
    whoever he/she chooses and not be harangued by those who live in towns
    with lower class teams that weren't smart enough to follow more
    entertaining clubs.
    
    
    END%%WAFFLE

    Nev,
    
    As the scouser would say...calm down,calm down.
    
    I've no problem with it, I was just interested in why there are so many
    long distance fans. I reckon it's ingrained at an early age watching
    the stars on the telly - in your case George Best - in my case someone
    a bit younger !  You don't have to justify it, it's just a wierd
    phenomenon.  The fact that ther is better football is irrelevant. I
    agree Man U are better footballers but it's just wierd how you would
    want them to beat Reading in an F.A cup tie - or would you ?
    
    Andy

     The point I was making was that no-one says you *must* justify being a
    sheep sorry lond-distance-supporter but I think supporters in general
    would have more respect for a fellow football fan who supports his/her
    local side rather than going for glory + supporting man u "next year
    definately" - why not just support ac milan or barca if the reason is
    just cos theyve got supposedly better players ?
    
    
    *dw.

    I remember when I was a kid that I used to follow Liverpool purely, I
    think, because they were a big name club and were on the TV a lot.
    
    My Uncle then gave me a hard time and said that I really ought to
    follow the club in the city where I lived - Southampton. So I did.
    I even got to Wembley on that famous day in 1976 and watched the
    biggest underdogs in years beat Man Utd. What a day!!!
    
    I must admit I haven't seen them at home or away for years, except for
    their appearance at Wembley this year - even then I felt a little
    guilty for perhaps taking up a *true* supporters' place.
    
    I live in hope that one day they will return to the great days when the
    likes of Channon, Osgood, George, Shilton and Payne played for them.
    
    I can but dream.
    
    Dave

    re -1
    
    >their appearance at Wembley this year - even then I felt a little
    >guilty for perhaps taking up a *true* supporters' place.
    
    
    Hahahahahahahahahahhahahahaha!
    
    Didn't you notice the wide open spaces at your end of the ground?  :-)
    
    Stevo

    If the argument is about why us "sheep" do not support local football,
    but chase the glory of the larger, supposedly more successful clubs,
    then I would like to ask who actively supports/plays local football!
    Surely his would be supporting your local side.
    
    The closest team to myself in the football league is Cambridge and I
    know that I could never support them. I look for their results each
    week but I've watched them play three times in the last season and they
    lost them all and I felt that I needed to wear a neck brace!
    
    For my sins I actually manage a non-league team, and have progressed
    from Village football to managing a team that at least enters the
    preliminary stages of both teh FA CUp and the FA Vase.
    
    So perhaps it is that us sheep are actually part of more than one flock
    and therefore, do NOT totally follow the leader.
    
    Comments??
    
    Mark 
    
    

    I support football, and follow Man.Utd.

    Well I do both. I watch Reading play when it doesn't clash my local
    football, but, I support Man.Utd as well.
    
    A man can not survive in pub land without supporting a team about whom
    you can have argy-bargy about.
    
    Tony

    
    There was a point made earlier that suggested that long distance fans
    normally support the big successful clubs, but I'm sure that lowly
    Cowdenbeath from the lower reaches of the Scottish First (2nd) division
    have fans who regularly travel from somewhere in England. This does not
    normally boost the crowd to over 2000. 
    
    BTW despite a poor start to the season, there is no truth in the rumour
    that Cowdenbeath plan to change their nickname from "The Blue Brazil"
    to "The Blue Latvia". ;-)
    
    Archie
    

    I have less of a problem with fans who support a far away "big" club
    thant I do with bandwagon jumpers or people who support teams for
    non-football reaasons, like some of the nastier elements of the
    Huns/Tims rivalry in Glasgow, and other rivalries. 
    
    With certain teams being on national TV a lot more than others, I could
    easily see how people can follow a club and develop a genuine affinity
    for them only through TV. Many supporters follow several teams in
    different divisions and even different countries. 
    
    Anderlecht was the only club whose matched I attended regularly when I
    lived in Belgium, but I also saw Everton at Wembly a couple of times,
    so I have a soft spot for them. I root for Sheffield Wednesday because
    I met John Harks once in an airport and talked with him for about 5
    minutes. He was surprised I recognized him, and was a nice guy. Other 
    than that, it's hard to say why I might rather see one team beat another.
    
    Living in the U.S. you could say I'm a real long distance fan. 
    
    Tom   

    re : -1
    
    
    whats the latest feeling in the US re : world cup '94.
    
    We hear loads of stories about there being not much interest locally
    and that they cant sell a TV deal + if you ccant sell a TV deal you may
    as well pack up + go home 'cos TV runs sport out there + there is also
    the genuine feeling that FIFA have sold out by giving the prime soccer
    tournament to a nation that dont giva monkeys about soccer (even
    syncronised swimming is more popular apparantely !)
    
    some input from a "long distance" soccer fan in the US would be
    interesting.

    I met a chap from San Francisco on holiday lst year and plan to visit,
    with my family, during the next world cup. He tells me that now the
    venues have been selected interest is growing quickly. Passadena holds
    the semi-final and final and apparantly the Calafornians are becoming
    soccer mad.
    
    Also, My frien Keith, a San Francisco Cop! is a long distant Chelsea
    fan!
    
    Mark

    re .18
    Interesting comments. There is another note in here somewhere about this 
    that goes into this issue in more detail. No doubt football/soccer is not 
    what you'd call a "major" sport in America. As for the average American 
    sports fan not caring, well, that may be true, but.... Don't forget 
    America is a huge country with something close to the entire population of 
    Europe. There ARE soccer fans here and there IS interest in the game. The 
    2 factions of fans come from the immigrant/ethnic groups of various 
    nationalities and the largely suburban, white middle-class families whose 
    kids play, but the parents don't know/follow the game. (There are 
    exceptions and these are only broad generalizations). The problem in 
    getting a pro league off the ground here is to merge these 2 groups. Many 
    teams have failed partially by not reaching out to the ethnic communities. 
    This is crazy, because these people are soccer fans to begin with, 
    and if you put a reasonably entertaining team on the pitch without 
    charging an arm and a leg, these people WILL COME.
    
    As for the World Cup, don't worry about empty stadiums, cause there
    won't be any. The 2 groups of people already in the US, combined with
    foreign supporters will snap up all the tickets. There have been a few
    Internationals playes at WC venues in the last year or so, and with one
    exception, they all have drawn well. In the Boson area, over 37,000
    turned up on a THURSDAY AFTERNOON for an Italy-Ireland friendly.
    
    As for a TV deal, the Turner Network (cable) will show all 53 (?)
    games, while a regular network, (ABC I think) will show something like
    24 of those games. There are several channels that do show soccer
    regularly in the US as well, although it's mostly taped.
    
    Soccer will probably not be as mainstream as some of the more
    traditional/popular American sports, but there definitely IS interest
    and the 1994 World Cup will show that.
       
    Tom 
    
     

    I would like to second everything that Tom said in the previous reply
    regarding soccer (football) in the U.S.
    
    I might add that the USSF has already been deluged with requests for
    tickets for WC94 games, and they won't even go on sale until sometime
    in '93.  There is no doubt that the games will be a complete sell out,
    perhaps even well before the opening ceremonies.
    
    I myself, am looking forward to reading all the comments in this
    notesfile after WC94 is completed.  I anticipate a lot of "crow"
    eating!
    
    Steve

    
    	What a load of tosh this topic is....
    
    	The writer of .0 and several others clearly understand nothing
    	about what it is that makes someone follow their club no matter
    	where they live.
    
    	I was born and raised in Burnley (yes, I know......) and often
    	saw them, since they were my local team. However, the real dream
    	was to watch Man Utd at Old Trafford in the days of Charlton, Best
    	etc. play what was at the time the best football in the land. The
    	fact that the heathens from City won the league in my first real
    	season watching United was merely a side issue 8-)
    
    	I have since lived in various parts of the country (Reading,
    	Brighton in their Div.1 days luckily, and now Portsmouth) and have
    	enjoyed many visits to see those sides playing their own games,
    	but if you think it makes me want to put United aside and support
    	the local team, then you can't understand what true loyalty is.
    
    	Even the really black days of '74/'75 when we went down.....
    
    	Andy.

    Andy Santillana i remember, you used to play for Real Madrid as a
    striker and Brian Strattons 5 a side teams, up there with the likes of
    George Best, Rodney Marsh, Dennis Law, Tom Finney, Robin Friday
    a striker of top quality.
    
    Readers listen to .22 he was a striker all you supporters would
    have loved in your sides.
    
    He knows about Football you know,not so sure about N Groom though
    sounds like a Goalkeeper to me and we all know they are crazy .
    
    
    Joe( the has been, OK change it to never been!!!)

    
    	awww, shucks...you've rumbled me Joe. Who's things? Stratty still
    	smashing those vans up? And what about ol' Willie Thorne, he of
    	the slap-head and easy-to-beat-at-snooker? 8-)
    
    	Andy.

    Brain has not had an accident for 2ys can you believe that!
    
    Chris is still here so are the rest of the crazy gang.
    
    Take it easy, as if you need telling that!
    
    
    regards
    
    Joe
    

	In reply to .22
    
      >	What a load of tosh this topic is....
    
      >	The writer of .0 and several others clearly understand nothing
    	about what it is that makes someone follow their club no matter
    	where they live.
    
      >	I was born and raised in Burnley (yes, I know......) and often
    	saw them, since they were my local team. However, the real dream
    	was to watch Man Utd at Old Trafford.........
    
    
        etc......
    
    
        Why are trying to justify yourself if the topic is a load of old
    tosh ?  Sorry to upset you people who are 'real', 'true' supporters,
    who feel such emotion when watching their 'team'. :^) 
    
    
    

    
    	'real and 'true....your words, not mine. I didn't use them, nor
    	was I trying to justify *anything*....
    
    	What I wondered was, what was the problem the wrtiter of .0 had
    	with who *anyone* supports...I don't even remember if it was you
    	that started the whole subject. 
    
    	In fact I can't remember who I am or what day it is.. Arghhhhh!!!!
    
    	(will the last one out of this topic please turn off the light..)

    Tosh Tosh TOSH!!!!!
    

    What I want to know is (with regard to previous entries)
    
    
    
    	1. wtf is crow eating ?? (maybe some variation of pidgeon pie)
    
    	2. tosh - is this a ref. to the fella out of "the bill" or
    		john toshack ??
    
    	3. what was -1 meant to be ??

    Tosh means: Thanks for your opinion but i dont agree.
    
    Crow eating: sorry no help there
    
    
    Now Toshack he was a good target man, i have heard his son is at one
    of  the Dundee clubs , it might be poney i dont know for sure.
    
    Now dont ask me what Poney means cos i fink ya naw aready.

    re -1 . 
    
    
    you lost me completely !
    
    poney  - is this a noting fla ??? or cryptic for dundee or dundee utd.
    		or some name for dundee cake ???
    		or - is j.toshack related to the donkee (stand up tony
    		adams)
    
    
    woody.

    "Eating Crow" is an American expression for being proven wrong. If I
    were to enter several Cunno-esque notes about how Liverpool were going
    to wipe the floor with whoever they play next, and then the 'pool get
    stuffed --- I would be forced to eat crow. 
    
    Tom 

    
    	...and I think Joe meant a "pony", as in "pony & trap" (slang,
    	Cockney Rhyming variety..)
    
    	Now what rhymes with pony & trap 8-)  (clue: four letters...)
    
    	Andy.

    re Tosh.... Peter Tosh was a reggae musician who was one of the
    original Wailers with Bob Marley in the '60s. He was shot :-( a few 
    years ago when someone tried to rob his house in Jamaica. He sang "Treat 
    the Youths Right," "Legalize It" and a whole bunch of others.  

    re .last
    
    Yeah, Tosh was a bit of a reggae-midfield-general, a sort of
    Rasta Vinny Jones if you like who lived up to the hard-man image,
    until he was shot that is. Similarly Perry Groves, plays in a 
    forward role similar to Kylie's, diminutive, nimble yet content-free
    brand of pop. Jan Molby as a cheeseburgered Elvis anyone?
    
    albert goldman.
    

    .......and Tony Adams always reminds me of a Pet Shop Boy - sort of
    young , inept + foolish yet always "around".
    
    As for the Reggae influence , surely the footy equiv. of a Wailer has
    to be Mr. Moneybags Dalglish
    
    
    
    Any more ?
    
    dw.

    Shane McGowan and George Best - talented, occasional brilliance and
    sadly, finally succumbed to the demon drink
    Mark E Smith and Brian Clough - vocal, individual, produce the odd
    classic
    Ken Bates and Kenny Rogers - same christian name and hair/beard. Not
    sure if country king Kenny ever double crossed his wife but he often sang 
    about women leaving him.
    
    Andy
    

    
    I am another long distance fan - about 18000 miles!  I love footbal
    (British) and Man U.  Got hook on it while watching our Bobby scoring
    spectacular goals during '66.  Learnt how to tune the dial to BBC World
    Service and listen to the commentaries at 1.00 am for years.  Law,
    Best, Hill (Gordon, that is), Coppell, etc.
    
    Made it to England for 'education' and made the first trip out to OT
    (whereas!).  I also went to most Brighton' s home games - from Div 2 to
    1 and back to ...  Four years of live football.  Risky though with all
    the skineads and yobs.
    
    Malaysian TV showed 'Star Soccer' for years so we got to watch Wolves
    (Parkin, Dougan, Wagstaff) and Derby (Rioch, Todd, Cloughie) quite
    frequently.  We all thought that Hugh Jons was the best commentator in
    the world.  Few years back it was all different - we got football
    about 10 days later.  Progress!  This year, we are still being
    black-out due to the Sky deal.  English soccer is telecasted live on most
    Sunday for last few years.  All semi and finals are live.
    
    Couple of expats are in our semi-Pro league - Mick Brown (exManU),
    Trevor Hartley, etc
    
    Linnekar (sp) got four of his xxx goals against us in front of 45,000
    people in a stadium built for 40,000.
    
    Overall, good entertaining football will always transgress
    nationalities and cultural line for 'tis a beautiful game!

    re -1
    theres no answer to that.
    

    I'd like to endorse Tony Hill's views a few back. I live in the Boston
    area, but follow the ups, downs, and general gyrations of
    Middlesborough F.C. from afar. As for World Cup interest, Boston has
    been blessed with a site for '94, and I can guarantee that the town I
    live in (Hopkinton, MA; pop. 9,000) will probably account for 100
    tickets a game. And that doesn't count the out-of-towners, like my
    sister and brother-in-law, from Cornwall, who are coming over just for
    the occasion. Foxborough Stadium will probably be sold out 5 times over
    for each game, so starved are we for real, world class, professional
    soccer.
    
    There's a real grass-roots love for soccer in the US that many people
    who don't live here miss. At the local level, we have High School
    football (with the other ball), baseball, basketball, etc, but we also
    have high school soccer that draws a couple of hundred adults for each
    home game. (I remember my days on grammar school teams in the
    north-east (of England), and Saturday mornings would see the two teams,
    and two gym masters, all shivvering in the rain, and not another body
    in sight.) In addition to the high school teams, we have all those
    white, middle class kids, from age 5 upwards, that Tony refers to, all
    playing in in-town and travel leagues.....my town turns out 350 kids
    each Saturday and Sunday. On top of that, there are active adult
    leagues, for both sexes....again, my town has 3 men's teams and 2
    women's teams playing in organized leagues. Lots and lots of support
    for soccer at the grass-roots level.
    
    At a personal level, I coach 2 teams of under-10 girls (6 a side games;
    one in-town at 8:30 am on a Saturday, the other a travel team on
    Saturday afternoon). I play myself in an over-40's(crocks) men's league
    on Sunday morning, and I coach an over-30's women's team on Sunday
    afternoon. For 10 weeks in the spring, and 10 weeks in the autumn,
    nothing gets done around the house or garden......but I still keep an
    eye on the Sunday paper, and on VNS, just to see how the 'Boro made out
    the day before........  
    
    I'm a long-distance supporter, but I like to join in too. I'm glad
    the US is getting the World Cup in '94.
    
    Regards, from me and my sore Achillies tendon,
    Alan

    An interesting side to the "long distance supporter" thing is the
    people in Ireland who swear allegiance to clubs like Man Utd, Liverpool
    and other teams in the UK, and laugh at the idea of going to see a 
    League of Ireland club playing. 
    
    Shelbourne play Panathanaikos next week in one of the European 
    competitions, but most people will watch Man Utd play Honved on the
    T.V.  
    
    People are obviously entitled to watch/goto whatever games they like,
    but it could only do the game good here if more people went local
    games.
    
    John
    
    

    John,
	I think you're being a little unfair to LOI supporters. I reckon that
	the LOI has become much more popular in recent seasons (certainly in
	Dublin). All of my mates would go to watch Bohs rather than watch on
	the telly. A couple of them are actually going to the return leg in
	Bordeaux next week (obviously booked before the home leg!)

	In fact there should be a good Bohs contingent in Bordeaux. A crowd
	from the Shed (lets be honest, gougers!), have booked a pilgrimage
	to Lourdes for the week for just over �100, and will travel up to
	Bordeaux! Some pilgrims are going to get an awful shock saying their
	rosary on the way over!

	Even in this notes file you'll notice a few regular LOI attendees.
	Liam Dawson must be Shels best supporter (not that they have THAT many).

	Cheers,

    Michael.