T.R | Title | User | Personal Name | Date | Lines |
---|
222.1 | Is it April 1st? | MOEUR3::SMITH | | Tue Jun 02 1992 10:08 | 10 |
|
Is this really true? A better rule might be to outlaw passes back into
ones own half having crossed the half-way line, as in basketball. If
its an attempt to prevent (time-wasting) possession football, then
there are other better ways of doing it! What happens if the ball
deflects off a defenders foot, (e.g. intercepting an attacking pass),
does this count as a pass-back? I pity the refs.
|
222.2 | | UTRUST::CAMPBELL | Real ponies don't go oink! | Tue Jun 02 1992 10:31 | 4 |
| So is it o.k. for a defender to flick the ball up in the air and head
it back to the keeper then?
Stevo
|
222.3 | | PEKING::NAGLEJ | | Tue Jun 02 1992 11:41 | 10 |
|
Is it right that a player can pass back to his keeper but the
keeper must not pick it up ? Effectively he becomes the sweeper
and must play the ball out.
I can see the good points for this rule as less time will be wasted
but it will put more pressure on defenders and keepers. Other adverse
effects I'm not sure about though.
JN.
|
222.4 | Needs some fine tuning | CHEFS::HOUSEB | | Tue Jun 02 1992 15:46 | 8 |
| So now as a defender you will be penalised if you chase back thirty
yards to catch a forward who is through, sliding tackle and slide the
ball back to the keeper ??? However if you slid in head first and nod
it back to the keeper you get away with it ???
A little unfair I think.
Brian.
|
222.5 | When is a back pass the only option | FUTURS::FLETCHER | | Tue Jun 02 1992 16:02 | 14 |
| What happens when somebody has a shot which deflects off a defenders
boot which is then saved by the keeper - is this a backpass.
This rule seems doomed to failure from the start unless there are some
allowable back passes. Surely a defender in his own area must be able
to use his foot to get the ball to his keeper. What option has a
defender got whos under pressure from an attacker with the keeper as
his only 'Free' player - boot into touch? Also if the keeper stops it
with a part of his body other than his hands - is he then allowed to
pick it up?
Confused - you will be.
Nigel
|
222.6 | | SQGUK::NOCK | Deleted, but not read | Tue Jun 02 1992 18:01 | 10 |
| Could also encourage the use of the long ball in attack - hoof it over
the top with the defender firm favourite but an attacker in pursuit.
The goalkeeper is not an option so the defender's only option is to
risk turning on the ball under pressure from a forward or to put it out
of play for a throw or a corner. The result is a low-skill punt upfield
gets quite a decent reward.
Paul
|
222.7 | Anyone know the others? | AIMTEC::WICKS_A | Liverpool win the F.A Cup again! | Tue Jun 02 1992 18:12 | 14 |
| This rule change was actually reported in an American newspaper so
it must be "officiaL" - ok so it was after the 16 daily pages of
baseball but it was there.
the article also said that there were 4 other "more obscure rule
changes" - so come on someone satisfy my curiousity and tell me what
the others were... i thought this one was fairly obscure so what were
the others? - teams not allowed to play in shirts that contain less
than 14 different colours or something.
Regards,
Andrew.D.Wicks
|
222.8 | Put them on ICE! | ESOA12::PILATON | | Tue Jun 02 1992 21:43 | 7 |
| I though one of the changes should be that the first infraction in
taking a dive, the game should be stopped, and the attending fans score
from 1-10. If the scoring is an average of 8+ the player should be
placed in a POOL of ice water for five minutes.Huummm!! not a bad rule
change, this one hey!
Nick
|
222.9 | What do we do with the midfielders ? | ZPOVC::KUMAR | | Wed Jun 03 1992 02:33 | 28 |
| Re. last
Brilliant !!
Ok, so it now looks like the Arse are going to win the Premier League.
I can imagine listening to the World Service at 11:37 pm on a Saturday
night, where Alan Green will be in full flow:" Semen picks up the ball,
kicks a long one into the <opposite team> half. Smith heads the ball,
(Wright/Campbell/Merson) picks it up, beats one man and yesssss it's
a goal. Arsenal score their eighth goal, an exact replica of their
previous seven goals. It looks like nobody will be able to provide any
kind of answer to this Arsenal's attacking strategy........."
Well, that's the kind of footie you're going to be witnessing
with these ridiculous new rules. With these new rules, I don't see the
necessity of having any midfield players at all.
Just my 2 cents.....
Regards,
Kumar
Regards,
Kumar
|
222.10 | | CLARID::KREYER | Andre KREYER - Valbonne | Wed Jun 03 1992 09:38 | 10 |
|
RE: other FIFA rules changes...
If I remember well one of them consisted in having the referee show
both red AND yellow card for a second booking to send some player
back to the changing room...
Very useful as a new rule I guess, future will tell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
.Andre.
|
222.11 | ? | RTOEU::RDELANEY | Bovine TB & Brucelosis C�il� Band..... | Wed Jun 03 1992 10:06 | 4 |
| When does the backpass rule become official ? Because it certainly
wasn't used last night in the Germany V N. Ireland game (1-1).
- Robin
|
222.12 | | FUTURS::FLETCHER | | Wed Jun 03 1992 10:12 | 7 |
| The rules apply from next year.
Another was that a goal kick could be taken from anywhere in the 6 yard
box and not just from the side of the goal where the ball went out of
play.
Nigel
|
222.13 | | MASALA::MCOMMONS | | Wed Jun 03 1992 12:08 | 2 |
|
The rule changes are from July 25th '92
|
222.14 | A good new rule | GOTA1::APPELQVIST | If it don't stink, don't stir | Thu Jun 04 1992 19:06 | 33 |
|
Actually Sweden applied for these changes for this season (began in
April), but IFAB said no. All the major leagues play autumn-spring, so
we just have to wait a year.
Another change we applied for was that all freekicks would be direct.
Easier for the players/public/(referees?) to remember. anyone knows if
this has come true?
The backpass-rule is GOOD in my opinion. Like some other rules, the
referee must see if a player makes an deliberate violation of a rule or
not. Take for example the "Goalie must not take the ball with his hands
twice"-rule. If the goalie makes as save, losing control over the ball but
retreives it again, the rule doesn't apply. I mean, if the ball deflects
on a defender, this new rule won't apply. In the case when a defender
"must" pass the ball back to his goalie, he can do that relying on his
goalie to kick the ball away. Otherwise he must kick it over the line
making a corner.
The last ten minutes of last nights game between Italy and Sweden, the
ball was in the Italian penalty-box for five of them. A long backpass from
the mid circle, and the Italian goalie just waited for a Swedish forward to
attack him. With the forward 5 meters from him he picked up the ball and
kicked it up the field again. That sort of play will hopefully decrease.
One thing on my wishlist is a new off-side rule. No off-side from the
penaltybox-line to the mid-line. Iv'e seen examples of it (and i think
it was used in some international youth-tornament) and i liked what i
saw. A bigger area for forwards to play on, leaving the midfield to
make more constructive build-ups of the play.
Mats
|
222.15 | Warning: side effects | BONNET::VISCIGLIO | Allez O.G.C.N. ! | Fri Jun 05 1992 09:43 | 18 |
|
I agree for the backpass rule.
However, I am much more dubious on what you suggest about the off-side.
No off-side between the box area and the mid-field would have the
following side effect:
There will be players staying along the match just at the box border,
awaiting a ball. This will oblige the opposite team to have defenders
there to control these guys.
Result: as many of the most offensive teams are now playing 'the line',
i.e. a flattened defense, with defenders very 'high' (at mid-field
level when the team is attacking), they will have to change their
tactics...and become more defensive.
I think that unfortunately this rule would rather favour the
counter-attacking teams (i.e. defensive) than the actually offensive
ones.
Pierre-Yves
|
222.16 | | SUBURB::ABSOLOMT | Do I smell Cupcakes? Do I ever! | Mon Jun 08 1992 13:46 | 4 |
| Is this going to be in effect for the local amateur football as well??
If it is I'm moving up to midfield!! Sod that sweeper lark!
Tony
|
222.17 | Yes!!! | FORTY2::ROBERTSON | You don't wanna do it like that !!!! | Mon Jun 08 1992 13:51 | 2 |
| It will affect all F.A. regulated leagues.
===
|
222.18 | A good rule for TV... | SUBURB::INV_LIBRARY | Who hell he?!? | Wed Jul 01 1992 14:46 | 17 |
|
Played the first full game using the new rules last night and it's
gonna take some getting used to, I can tell you. Admist various chaotic
scenes, the one thing that did emerge is that the boot upfield (or out
of play) is now often the best option for defenders and goalkeeper
alike. What tended to happen last night was that the 'keeper operated
as an extra man at the back and if put under any pressure, would simply
kick the ball as far as possible.
This does mean that if, as a striker, you attempt to put the 'keeper
under pressure, you are almost certain to be in offside position once
he has cleared the ball.
This all makes for exciting, goal-mouth incident but it hardly improves
the quality of the football.
jeff
|
222.19 | Still not clear to me | JGODCL::SHERLOCK | L.U.F.C. The phoenix has risen | Tue Jul 21 1992 14:23 | 22 |
| Are there any referees out there who have actually read the official
ruling ? I've just read the Dutch interpretation of the new backpass
rule, it seemed full of the terms "intentional backpass", and
"not in the spirit of the new backpass ruling".
I've just been discussing this with a friend of mine who is a team
manager, and we both agreed that it will be difficult for all
concerned to draw the line between a backpass used as a defensive
action, and a backpass used as a time wasting manoeuvre (sp).
When I first read the base note I was under the impression that
backpasses other than by the head or chest are to be penalised full
stop.
If for example there are two defenders stood within a few yards of
each other in and within a few yards of their keeper, one has just gained
possession from an opponent and played it off to the other defender
who at that very moment is put under pressure by an attacker, is
the defender who is now in possession punishable if he plays the
ball back to the keeper's hands ? or does the keeper *have* to
kick the ball away.
Anyone care to comment ?
Tim
|
222.20 | what is the "intent"? | SALES::THILL | | Tue Jul 21 1992 16:33 | 17 |
| I was wondering the same thing....The backpass can be a useful
defensive play if a ball is kicked a little too long for the forwards,
and a full back gets to it first, but he is being pressured from
behind. Does this mean he can't pass it back to his keeper? or if he
does, is the keeper, in effect, just like another field player, ie, can
play it, but can't pick it up? I don't hink ANYONE would consider a
play like this a deliberate waste of time, after all, the forward is
putting pressure on, the defender is running full speed, the keeper
must be ready, etc. Any kind of mistake could easily result in a goal.
I interpreted this as another "referee's discretion" call. Anyone can
clearly tell the difference between a scenario like the one above and a
deliberate, time wasting backpass from midfield. Then again, unless this
is defined once and for all, different referees will have different
interpretations of the rule, and it will be chaos.
Tom
|
222.21 | Keeper Rule Change | MSDOA::HORTON | Never Say Never | Wed Jul 22 1992 01:26 | 26 |
| "If on any occasion a defender kicks the ball to the goalkeeper, and the
goalkeeper plays the ball with his hands, the goalkeeper will be
penalized with an indirect free kick."
"Kicks" is defined as playing the ball off the foot or feet.
There is no direction defined in the rule; ie, back, forward etc.
The defender may head the ball, play it off the chest, thigh or knee
and it is not a rule infraction.
If the ball is deflected off defended #2 from defended #1 to the keeper
the keeper may not use his hands. If it is deflected off an attacker,
the keeper may use his hands.
If in the refs opinion, the ball is played away from the keeper but
intended for the keeper, the keeper will be penalized. Example: the
keeper is playing on left of goal, defender kicks ball to right of goal
but no attacker is within reasonable distance to "steal" the ball.
Remember, if the keeper plays the ball without using his hands, it is
not a rule infraction.
Hope this helps.
|
222.22 | Did Jimmy Hill dream this rule up? | WARNUT::WARNUT::PICKERINGS | Simon Pickering | Thu Jul 23 1992 19:45 | 10 |
| There's going to be real fun with this! What happens if a defender
tries to clear a ball, slices it, and the goalie has to make a diving
save?
We will see daft things like defenders going on their hands and knees
and 'heading' the ball so that the goalie can pick it up!
Andy Dibble has blamed his broken leg on this rule. He had to hack at a
ball he normally would have caught, but unfortunately he caught his
ankle on someone's boot and broke his ankle.
|
222.23 | An Improvement ! | JGODCL::SHERLOCK | L.U.F.C. The phoenix has risen | Fri Jul 24 1992 11:50 | 18 |
| Well...I my team played their first game under the new rules last
night, and in my opinion it is an improvement, bearing in mind
that here in Holland they like the defensive game you would
normally see far too much backpassing, the new rule at least ensures
that the ball is more in play than it normally would be.
As mentioned in -.1 you see a lot of unusual ways of passing the
ball back to the keeper...edge of penalty box..defender on the ball
crouches and "knees" the ball back to the keeper ! also a similar
situation that the defender "flicks" the ball up and either heads
it, or knees the ball to the keeper.
This new rule is going to be a boon to opportunist strikers, and
a worry to indecisive defenders. I don't think it's going to have
much impact on the English game, but it's really going to affect
the "continental" game.
I.M.H.O. a great improvement.
Tim
|
222.24 | yellow card for time wasting by writing such a long note ?? | MIACT::RANKINE | | Fri Aug 07 1992 18:20 | 54 |
| Well I held off replying in this topic until I recieved the official FA
guidelines regarding the changes. Last night I attended a Refs
Association meeting to discuss the new changes. Luckily quite a lot of
reps from clubs also attended so we should have a common understanding
of what is legal and what is not. As stated earlier, the key statement
is a deliberate or intentional passback to the keeper...if he then
handles it, then its an indirect free kick. Since the new law has been
introduced there have been attempts at getting round it eg getting on
your knees and kneeing the ball back, or flicking the ball up and
heading it back. This has now been dealt with by an addendum to the
law which states that if a defender is judged by the referee to be
trying to 'cheat' into a passback then he will be punished irrespective
of whether the keeper handles the ball or not. This caused quite a lot
of debate last night, and Im not sure whether this has been fully
resolved or not. I see that there is more pressure placed on refs as
the law states that in the opinion of the referee...this is OK, as it
gives refs the caveat that they are therefore always right, but leads
to individuals having different interpretations which means
inconsistent reffing. I intend to get both sets of players together
and explain the new changes prior to the game for the 1st couple of
games..then there is no excuse for "I didnt know about that one ref"
etc.
Other changes (by memory)
Any player breaking from a defensive wall, or encroaching within 10yds
from a free kick, before the kick has been taken, will be cautioned.
Any player standing in front of the ball, preventing a free kick to be
taken will be cautioned.
Any player kicking, or picking up the ball, after a free kick has been
awarded, thus trying to get himself into position prior to the kick
being taken, will be cautioned.
Red and yellow cards to be used at ALL levels of football. A player who
committs a second cationable offence will be shown BOTH cards. ie you
are being cationed for that offence = yellow, but as its your 2nd, your
off = red.
The feed back from the few refs who have already reffed games under the
new laws is that it does promote more play and less time wasting..this
even from 1 ref who was totally opposed to the changes. There are
instances of defenders trying to get round the passback changes eg one
defender passes to another defender in the box, who traps the ball then
the goalkeeper runs up and picks the ball up..as this has not been a
passback from the 2nd defender to the keeper, then no offence has
occurred. Also defenders have been pretending to miss kick the ball so
that it doesnt look like a deliberate passback.
A long note, which I apologise for, I hope Ive not mislead anyone, or
missed anything critical out.
Cheers
paul
|
222.25 | | FORTY2::ASH | Grahame Ash @REO | Fri Aug 07 1992 18:43 | 6 |
| Don't apologise Paul - we'll all be wanting to know what's going through a
ref's head on quite a few occasions this season I expect!
All the best with the new rules - let's hope they make the games better.
grahame
|
222.26 | Not one | KERNEL::MORIARTY | | Fri Aug 07 1992 18:54 | 15 |
| Paul,thanks for the info on the new rules.
I for one am opposed to the law on backpasses since I feel it tends to
lead to a levelling of skills as a defender.By this I mean that in a real
situation where a defender has the skill to make space & time for
himself to break up an attaking move by using the keeper "safely" (ie
the keeper can pick the ball up),he is now prevented from doing so &
will just hoof the ball into the stands....obviously a move forward for
keeping the game flowing.....
Once again,an opportunity for the hoofers in football to look
better......(just read this,& I don't think I've got the point I'm
trying to make across very well.Apologies if that is the case but I
know what I mean)
|
222.27 | pick a card, any card, any colour, choice of 2 ! | MIACT::RANKINE | | Fri Aug 14 1992 15:20 | 20 |
| re -1
Know exactly what you mean.
If the purpose of the no passback change was to get the game flowing
and to stop time wasting, perhaps it would have been easier to impose a
time limitation eg 12 seconds that a keeper can have the ball, before
he must get rid of it. This could prevent some of the confusion, and
stop players hoofing it out and the time required to retrieve the ball.
Ive heard again that people who have been totally against the change,
having now been in a couple of games, are starting to change their
minds....time will tell.
George Graham was in the Grauniad earlier this week moaning and
complaining (surprise, surprise) about it. Given that Arsenal and
Liverpool spend about half of their time passing it back, I would have
expected them to complain more !!.
paul
|
222.28 | Ref = timekeeper | SALES::THILL | | Mon Aug 17 1992 15:49 | 9 |
| If time wasting (60 minutes of actual playing time in a game, etc.) is the
main problem and reason for this rule, how about this suggestion: Have
the referee stop the clock when the ball goas out of bounds, for
injuries, free kicks, etc. a few seconds saved here and there will end
up lengthening the total time for action in the game. In ice hockey,
once play is stopped, the clock stops as well. As soon as play resumes,
the clock starts ticking.
Tom
|
222.29 | | RUTILE::BOYES | | Mon Aug 17 1992 15:55 | 2 |
| The rules of the game say that the referee should already be doing
this!
|
222.30 | Refs don't stop the clock | SALES::THILL | | Mon Aug 17 1992 16:08 | 12 |
| -1
But they don't! More often than not, the running time for a half of
football is almost always about 45 minutes. If you add up every time the
ball goes out of bounds, etc. you should get an extra 5-10 minutes or so.
If a ball is hoofed over the net, it might take a minute to get it back,
give it to the goalie, he sets it up in exactly the right spot, (got to
move that blade of grass out of the way!) he looks around, then makes
the goal kick. If the ref stopped the clock from the time the ball went
out of bounds to the time the goalie kicked the ball, we'd see a lot
more action over the course of a game.
Tom
|
222.31 | Stop the watch ref ! | SUBURB::LAINSBURYA | | Mon Aug 17 1992 18:56 | 9 |
| -1
And Wimbledon games would have to start at midday to prevent the
floodlights being needed ! The timing is an interesting subject
actually. I've always wandered whether refs stop the clocks for ball
retrieval - in my experience they don't unless there's 2 minutes to go
and the team leading by 1 goal but under pressure are hoofing the ball
out trying to time waste. Is there an official ruling on this ?
Andy..
|
222.32 | The way ahead? | JOCKEY::GOLDSACKM | | Tue Aug 18 1992 18:02 | 27 |
| Having read this topic I would like to put a different perspective to
the new back pass rule. I am a team manager, and have recently taken
charge of a Jewson League team. Mildenhall Town. I am only 28 but I am
greying quickly. Having watched a few firendlies pre-season in which
the new rule was enforced I am affraid to say that the colour of my
hair is becomming lighter by the minute!
The rule was about time wasting. Why penalise defenders! They normally
play to their coaches/managers instructions. Without being over rude
defenders are nomally either thinkers or non-thinkers! Half should cope
with the new rule but I feel sorry for the other half. I noticed on
Saturday that Liam Daish was caught with the ball by John Aldridge and
dispossesed, allowing Aldo to score.
The way Cambridge play will probably become the norm accross the
league. Arsenal abandoned any football ideas last season. They sold
their midfield, bought a quick striker, and played him alongside a
great big centre forward. No wonder Adams, Bould & O'Leary enjoy it at
Arsenal they can hoof it 60 yards and either Cambell or Smith get on
the end of it. I'm afraid that the new rule will only act to encourage
such tactics.
NOt at Mildenhall though. We can't find a big enough centre forward or
a defender who could kick the ball that far so we will have to continue
to play give/go football. Shame!!!!
MG
|
222.33 | Time wasting | MR4DEC::ELENGYEL | | Fri Aug 28 1992 19:12 | 30 |
|
RE: previous few notes on timewasting
While I limit my reffing to U19 and below, we nonetheless follow FIFA
laws. Prior to last year's season, we received a rather lengthy
communique highlighting recent changes, including a special note to ALL
referees STRONGLY encouraging the adding back in of delays caused by
long out of bounds, injuries, poorly handled substitutions, etc. It IS
THE LAW to do this. I suspect that this note was included since the
overwhelming majority of refs just don't bother.
For our league play, there are five main reasons why refs don't add back
in lost time:
- excepting flagrant breaches, it's a nuisance to do it
- refs would just as soon get the game over with in the allotted time
- it's not uncommon to have to ref another game on a different field
(sometimes in a different town!)
- in tournaments, you have limited fields and refs (refs are told NOT
to add back in time, even for injuries, except in finals)
- we don't have (or allow, for that matter) ball runners to immediately
replace booted balls leaving the field (BTW, runners make a BIG
difference in high school play, who don't follow FIFA)
In sum, there are no real incentives for refs to add time back in... but
several incentives for them NOT to. Without realistic incentives, it
will remain 'business as usual' back here.
Ed
|
222.34 | What is time ?? | MIACT::RANKINE | | Mon Sep 07 1992 19:14 | 32 |
|
I dont have the Laws of the Game to hand, but I think the wording is
that a game shall consist of 2 x 45 minutes duration. There is a
mention of stopping the clock for injuries, subs etc, but not a
specific directive regarding ball out of bounds, not in the UK anyway.
Of the games Ive officiated this season, they seemed to have flowed
more, and encouraged more open play..perhaps its just the teams Ive had
so far !!. To me the big confusing issue is the statement that back
passing is not allowed...this is simply not true !! You can pass to
the keeper at any time, its just that he is not allowed to use his
hands..so in theory the law change has affected the goalkeeper more
than any other player. The position of the play or keeper is
irrelevant also, so a 'pass forward' to the keeper, who then walks back
into the box means that he cant pick it up...this is also the case of a
defender taking a goal kick, where the keeper collects the ball outside
the box (aka the short goal kick) , if the keeper then walks the ball
back into the box, he cannot pick it up. The advice Ive given to players,
especially keepers, is if in doubt dont pick it up.
So far, as I mentioned in an earlier note, the area causing most
disagreements is the automatic booking for dissent, failing to go back
10 yards etc, as this was the topic for a re-emphasis on the
administration of a law, rather than a law change in itself...it was
also an area not covered by the media to the same depth as the passback
law change !!. (The wording changed from should be to MUST be
cautioned).
Thank god its the new season again..I saw a plyer wearing a t-shirt
at the weekend which read "My marriage is temporarily suspended...the
Football season has started "...now where have I heard that before ??
Cheers
Paul
|
222.35 | The New Rule: Difficult and Tough, but Positive | MR4DEC::JBENOIT | | Tue Sep 15 1992 15:55 | 50 |
| This rule is not perfect. As you all know, it will take some times
before all involved in football figure out how to best deal with it.
However, if we put aside our natural tendency to resist changes (especially
when it comes to this game we are all so passionate about), we can see that
the rules will make the game more exciting.
The only argument against this rule that I buy is the extra burden
it puts on refs. They really didn't need an extra judgement call. To me
the other arguments are not convincing enough. At best what they are saying
is that this new rule is not adding any value to the game.
Let's take a look at some of the arguments against the new 'back
pass to keeper' rule.
1) What is a defender to do when his only option is a pass to his
keeper? A pass to a keeper seems to be a terrible option only because the
keeper cannot pick up the ball with his hand. This new rule simply requires
better ball handling skills from both keepers and defenders.
2) Don't we waste time if the defender boots the ball out of bound?
We seem to forget that a free throw or a corner kick is an opportunity for
the attacking team.
3) How is the ref to know when a pass was intentional or not? The
penalty for violating the new rule is less severe than the one for a foul
committed inside the 18 (penalty kick as opposed to indirect free kick). If
a ref can handle the latter, then the former should not be much of a problem.
With this new rule, IMHO, we will see more intelligent tactics, and
better individual skills. I think we all want that but are not willing to
give up anything for it. I hear a lot of screaming from british fans for
example. I don't understand why. Their style of play is the least affected
by this rule.
It seems like this rule was inspired by the ultra defensive style of
the italians and the ridiculously calculating style of the germans. I don't
hear much complaints from them.
I hope this rule brings more scoring opportunities to the game in
general. I also hope more teams will design tactics that will allow them to
score more goals than their opponents. Except for Brasil of '70 and '82,
Holland of '74 and '78, Argentine of '78 (there were others), most world cup
national teams have emphasized defense much more than offense, making most
games right out boring.
BTW, I think all of you will get used to this new rule very quickly
because like me, you are crazy about this sport. I can't think of one
single rule that can turn you away from football. Let's hope it works for
the best.
Jude
|
222.36 | | UTRUST::CAMPBELL | Sorry Sir. We've sold out of PN's | Tue Sep 15 1992 16:20 | 6 |
| Couldn't they modify this rule so that it's only an offence if it's a
"time-wasting" backpass in the refs opinion. After all, he's allowed to
judge whether or not a handball is intentional, and whether or not a
foul was to stop the man or for the ball etc...
Stevo
|
222.37 | Should apply to all back passes | STKOFF::SPERSSON | Pas de probleme | Tue Sep 15 1992 17:56 | 10 |
|
I agree with everything that .35 says, and nothing that .36 says. If
this were to become a judgement of "time-wasting" it would never be
used. Players would learn how to "accidentally" pass the ball to their
keeper. This rule will eventually promote better skills, maybe that's
why the English are worried :-)
cheers,
Stefan
|
222.38 | A law, or a personal opinion ?? | MIACT::RANKINE | | Tue Sep 15 1992 18:46 | 20 |
|
I dont have a problem with the new 'back pass' law change. The only
problem is that because its 'in the opinion of the referee', it means
that there will be inconsistent ruling/reffing. Eg a ball which goes
to the keeper after a tackle, is not neccessarily deliberate, but
already Ive seen refs (at Premier League level) either let it go , or
penalise. In one instance the ref awarded a free kick where the
passback occurred rather that at the point where the keeper picked the
ball up !! There was about 10-12 yards difference. This only means
that confusion reigns, and until things are clearly defined, they will
remain so. I saw a video from the Scottish FA which explained in
deatail all the scenarios/possibilities, gave the decision whether it
was legal or not, and the reasons why. We decided to show this to our
league committe meeting to at least get a common understanding of the
law. Whether this info is passed to the players is another
thing.......
Its still the best game in the world.
Paul
|
222.39 | Back-pass Law | CARTUN::BERGART | Jeff-the-ref | Wed Sep 16 1992 17:17 | 30 |
| re .38
I'd love to get a copy to show around here in the States! Got an
extra to loan?
re others:
I was just "taught" the new rule by our State Ref. Instructor. I
can't say that the rule itself is bad. It won't be too hard for me to
implement -- except that if a defender passes it back, and the goalie
kicks it around for a bit, I have to remember that if he picks it up, I
have to call an indirect free kick. (i.e. I have to remember for a
while how the goalie got the ball - sort of like keeping track of the
flight of an indirect kick until it's touched by someone)
The hard part will be enforcing the "Trickery" provisions! This
part is that if, "in the opinion of the ref", a player tries to get
around the law (e.g. player A flips the ball into the air, so player B
can head it to the goalie), then it's an indirect free kick FROM WHERE
PLAYER A HIT IT - REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THE GOALIE USES HIS HANDS, AND
PLAYER A GETS A RED CARD!!! Think of the complexity just put on the
ref! (And think, if I'm player B and don't like player A, if "A" sends
me a high pass, I can get him ejected by heading that pass back to the
goalie!!!!!) This Trickery clause will be very difficult for me.
Jeff
P.S. Our youth leagues are not putting this law into play until the Spring.
All our Fall games will ignore it. Hopefully by then there will
be more clarity on its implementation.
|
222.40 | Foul one week, OK the next ??..depends on the ref, dunnit ?? | MIACT::RANKINE | | Thu Sep 17 1992 18:46 | 14 |
| Jeff,
re player A anb B scenario...the player should only be cautioned for
Ungentlemanly conduct, not sent off, unless the USA FA have decided
otherwise. My beef about this bit is say player A flicks the ball in
the air, he doent know what player B is going to do with it, so how/why
should he be punished ?? What if both players are 5 yds apart, 20 yds
apart, 40 yds apart, when is the 'anti-cheat' law applicable. What if
the players are 40yds apart with an attacking player in between them
??..To me its going to be difficult to interpret that one, sure if they
are right next to each other and they try it on then Ok Ill go for
that, but otherewise Im sure Ill interpret differently from other refs.
Paul
|
222.41 | Is it pick-up or play that counts? | BONNET::HARDY | | Sun Sep 27 1992 14:34 | 11 |
| Gentlemen in black
Suppose a defender kicks the ball towards the goalie and it is in the
air, then the goalie use his hands to block the ball (as was common
last year) and allows it to drop onto the ground before continuing to
play it with his feet (ie without picking up the ball). Is this allowed
or is it a free kick according to the backpass law?
tks
Peter
|
222.42 | According to this referee, but others may have another opinion.. | MIACT::RANKINE | | Mon Sep 28 1992 18:52 | 12 |
| re -1
It is a foul, as per the new law. If a defender passes to the keeper,
whether in the box or not, the keeper is regarded as an outfield player
ie if he deliberately handles it, its a foul.
Another question is 'If a defender passes the ball towards goal, and
the keeper saves it with his hands, should the keeper be sent of for
preventing an obvious goalscoring opportunity, as per last years law
changes (AKA the professional foul) ????'
Paul
|
222.43 | Interpretation needed | GALVIA::SPAIN | There's always the U.S. | Tue Sep 29 1992 11:01 | 16 |
|
I'm not a qualified referee but I do referee sometimes.
2 questions
1 A shot struck the heel of as defender and then was caught by the
keeper. I didn't give a free as the passback clearly wasn't
deliberate. I think I'm right but I've seen free kicks given in
similar circumstances.
2 A defender was taking a quick free kick, the attacker was running
away. The free kick hit the attacker when he was about 7-8 yards away.
I allowed play to continue. With hindsight I think I was wrong but I'm
not sure.
Gary.
|
222.44 | both right, i say | CHEFS::HOUSEB | | Tue Sep 29 1992 14:36 | 17 |
| I'm not a ref either but in number two I would say you are correct to
say play on.
In the Diadora League the ref will normally ask you (the taker) if you
want 10 yards. If you say no and try to take a quick one then you have
no argument if it strikes somebody less than 10 yards away. If you ask
for 10 the ref will stand near the ball and demand the opponents
retreat 10. If an opponent then encroaches you can retake the kick.
Basically I think if the takers wants to wait and ensure opponents are
10 yards away then wait and tell the ref.
Personally I think in a lot of circumstances it is advantageous to get
the ball down and start playing as quick as possible. What do the
qualified refs think???
Brian.
|
222.45 | no intent | IOSG::TYLDESLEY | | Tue Sep 29 1992 14:37 | 11 |
| Re. .43 Q1 I have not been penalizing these touches while trying to
intercept, as I don't regard them as an intentional back-pass. I
shout 'not intentional' loudly, so players are aware of my decision.
I've had no problems yet.
I must be getting old, but I am worried about a decision at the weekend
- free kick 3/4 yards from goal line, but not in penalty area; can the
defender (back) pass the ball direct to the 'keeper? I said he could...
Cheers
DaveT
|
222.46 | play on | IOSG::TYLDESLEY | | Tue Sep 29 1992 14:44 | 13 |
| re .44
Brian,
I think your interpretation is correct. If they want to take the quick
free kick, they run the risk of striking an opponent within 10 yards.
Tough. If they indicate they're going to take their time, then they
must wait for a signal that the ref is satisfied with the ten yards
before the kick is taken. I personally like the quick free kick being
taken, as it makes the game flow more, and opens up chances that are
often lost when they fiddle about deciding what to do!
Cheers
DaveT
|
222.47 | Pass back rule | CARTUN::BERGART | Jeff-the-ref | Tue Sep 29 1992 15:11 | 19 |
| re .45
I'm not sure I understand your question. However, on ANY free kick by
the defense, no matter where on the field, they can NOT pass the ball
to the keeper, who then handles the ball. (Of course the keeper can
kick the ball like anyone else.)
I see this new rule stopping the goal kicks out to the side sweeper who
then kicks it back to the keeper for a punt. I also see the full backs
no longer able to stop a break away by running back, getting between
the ball and the attacker, and pushing the ball forward to the keeper
(Acting as an illegal shield by slowing down at that point).
These are the two more frequent passbacks I've seen which should now
stop.
Regards,
Jeff
P.S. See the "Men in Black" note for add'l comments.
|
222.48 | yellow card for me! | IOSG::TYLDESLEY | | Tue Sep 29 1992 15:33 | 7 |
| re .47 - yep - thought I was wrong, but no-one seemed to question it,
until half time when the 'keeper approached me and said 'was it alright
for him to pass to me like that from the free kick'. He said he
wouldn't pick it up next time, just in case...
Cheers,
DaveT
|
222.49 | Re .43 | ISEPUB::CHAMPOLLION | Can-tas-tic | Tue Sep 29 1992 17:07 | 11 |
| Re .43 - In the French League the other day, scenario 1. happened. The defender
deflected a cross which the keeper handled --> indirect free kick, and in that
instance, goal!
I'm not sure but it looks like the FIFA did not take that into consideration.
However, in the "spirit" of the game I don't think he should have penalized
the keeper. On another hand, if you start interpreting the rule, the road is
open to excesses. When do you judge that a deflection is intentional or not?
Common sense? In a 10th of a second? Difficult indeed.
�JF?
|
222.50 | Depends on the ref..Ok one week, a foul the next.. | MIACT::RANKINE | | Fri Oct 02 1992 13:16 | 8 |
| Re -1
JF, FIFA have taken this into consideration, as the ruling states quite
clearly 'deliberate passback to the goalkeeper'. A deflection does not
in my view constitute deliberate, but the new ruling does state 'in the
opinion of the referee'....nuff said.
Paul
|
222.51 | How about a Kickback Quiz?!! | CARTUN::BERGART | Jeff-the-ref | Mon Mar 08 1993 21:48 | 48 |
| OK, I'm fresh from a USSF training session on the new kickback law!
It's NOT that simple!!!
Any guesses? For each question: What's the call, AND What's the
restart? Players 1 and 2 are
both on the same Team A.
1) Team A has a direct free kick (DFK) from inside their
penalty area. Player 1 kicks the ball into the air
a few yards to player 2 who heads it to their
goalie inside the penalty area who catches the
ball.
2) same as 1) except the DFK is taken outside of the penalty
area.
3) Goal kick. Goalie kicks it to player 1 outside of
the penalty area who heads it back to the goalie
who catches it.
4) Player 1 takes a throw-in and throws the ball to
the goalie who kicks it a few yards and then picks it up to
boot it out of the penalty area.
5) Player 1 does a fair slide tackle on the offense,
which results in him kicking the ball to his goalie.
6) Player 1 races back on a break away and kicks the
ball ahead to the goalie who lunges outside of the penalty area
to make the stop.
7) Same as 6, but the goalie instead kicks the ball
from outside of the penalty area and then picks it
up when it crosses into the penalty area.
8) Player 1 kicks the ball back to his goalie, but he
hits it too hard! The goalie makes a great save catching the
ball just before it goes into the net.
9) same as 8 above, but directly from a goal kick taken by team A.
10) During play, player 1 is pressured, so he kicks the
ball to player 2, who heads it to the goalie.
HAVE FUN!!!
Jeff
|
222.52 | I got lost before question 1! | AIMTEC::WICKS_A | I dreamt I found a working printer! | Mon Mar 08 1993 23:20 | 7 |
| Jeff,
Kick-back == Back-pass in English right?
Regards,
Andrew.D.Wicks
|
222.53 | Giving it a try... | KBOMFG::KOEPPE | Think Imaginary... | Tue Mar 09 1993 07:31 | 25 |
|
1) If player 2 is outside the penalty area, then no call - continue playing;
Otherwise repeat free kick as ball has to leave penalty area.
2) no call -continue playing
3) no call - continue playing
4) no call - continue playing
5) Difficult. I've seen some refs in this situation giving a free kick and
others let the game continue. Personally, I would let the game continue.
6) no call - continue playing.
7) Indirect free kick for other team, where the goalie picked up the ball.
8) Indirect free kick for other team, where the goalie caught the ball.
9) Assuming the goalie belongs to Team A , same as 8
10) No call - continue playing.
Eduard
|
222.54 | | YUPPY::BUSH | Alive and Kicking | Tue Mar 09 1993 11:02 | 8 |
|
This gets tricky this law. A lot of it is down to referee
interpretation. Last week whilst playing I blocked a shot on my goal
line with an outstetched foot and our keeper then picked up the loose
ball on the six yard line. The referee gave an indirect free kick.
Tony B.
|
222.55 | Did they Score | ESSB::BLONG | Europe is Scouse Free | Tue Mar 09 1993 11:49 | 0 |
222.56 | | YUPPY::BUSH | Alive and Kicking | Tue Mar 09 1993 16:57 | 10 |
|
NO.
We have had a few free kicks given close to the goal line this
season and it proves very difficult to score.
As soon as the ball is touched you're usually faced with 11
screaming idiots charging full pelt at you!
Tony B.
|
222.57 | Followup to kickback quiz | CARTUN::BERGART | Jeff-the-ref | Tue Mar 09 1993 18:42 | 24 |
| Eduard (.53),
Pretty good answers to the questions (.51). I'd disagree on one or
two, but let's wait and see if anyone else wants to try! Remember,
there is another set of "guidelines" as to what to do in the case of
that crazy piece of behavior called "TRICKERY". (As in "... if a player
attempts to circumvent the laws of the game through trickery, then
,..."
Regards,
Jeff
P.S. Yes, "kick back" is the same as "pass back". I call it the
kick back rule because use of the foot is required, whereas you
can legally head pass back to the goalie.
KEY ELEMENTS:
All these must be present:
USE OF THE FOOT
GOALIE USES HANDS
INTENTIONAL
BUT, if there is Trickery, ....!!!
|
222.58 | It's all the interpretation | YUPPY::BUSH | Alive and Kicking | Tue Mar 09 1993 19:09 | 23 |
|
Jeff,
From a players point of view (especially relevant as I'm a centre
back) I think the rule is good in as much as it does stop time wasting,
but the one thing that is annoying is the ambiguity of referees
interpretation of the rule where it is down to their discretion.
It is very annoying to have free kicks given against you one week
when the week before in an almost identical situation one wasn't. I'm
sure if i was a ref. I would get fed up with the comments of "It wasn't
given last week!"
The better referees in our league talk to the team just before kick
off to explain what they constitute as an illegal pass back and what
they don't. At least that way you can be clear what you can and can't
do during the game.
Now I wonder if I can get away with some of the trickery you have
mentioned!!!!!!
Tony B.
|
222.59 | It's a tougher match to ref! | CARTUN::BERGART | Jeff-the-ref | Tue Mar 09 1993 19:37 | 17 |
| Tony,
Thanks for your thoughts. I find it tougher and tougher to ref.
This particular law is very difficult. In this law, you sometimes
can't call an infraction for several seconds. For example, if its
kicked back to the goalie and he kicks it around for a while, I, the ref,
have to remember that it was from a kick back that the goalie got the
ball. So, three seconds later when he picks it up I have to whistle
the infraction. This is the second "delayed" penalty we have. (The
first being the goalie catches the ball, drops it and later tries to
pick it up). Even an advantage play where at the end I still have to
give the fouler a card is less complicated to enforce).
The purpose of the quiz was to show folks that it is NOT an easy
law. The trickery piece and it's associated restart rules are not very
simple. Stay tuned to our discussion regarding the answers to .51!
|
222.60 | | KBOMFG::KOEPPE | Think Imaginary... | Wed Mar 10 1993 11:40 | 15 |
|
RE. 57:
Jeff, you're right. I answered the questions disregarding the
trickery piece.
In that case I would give free kicks to the opposite team for
questions 1.) 2.) and 3.).
It's true that different referees rule the same incident differently
and it's a good idea for the ref to tell the players before the
game how he interprets the backpass rule.
During the game he can then easily block complaints saying
"Shut up, I told you BEFORE the game, so you knew it!!" :-)
Eduard
|
222.61 | Anyway, the ref is always right! | BONNET::HARDY | | Wed Mar 10 1993 17:32 | 31 |
| I'll have a go, if it encourages the correct answers to be put up.
My get out clause for any I get wrong is that the law says
'intentional'. this should be interpreted according to standard of
players, which is why a call against professionals might not be given
against youngsters.
1 If P2 inside area, retake goal kick
If P2 outside area, IFK at p2
2 IFK to opposition at P2
3 IFK to opposition at P2
4 OK
5 If goalie picks it up, FK at p1
6 If goailie handles it Red card and DFK at goalie
7 OK
8 IFK at p1
9 missed end of question on my mini-screen!
10 dependes, if intent to cheat against law then IFK at p2, if not is
OK.
Peter
|
222.62 | Answers to Kickback Quiz in 222.51 | CARTUN::BERGART | Jeff-the-ref | Thu Mar 11 1993 22:44 | 108 |
| <<< TRUCKS::DISK$USER72:[NOTES$LIBRARY]FOOTBALL.NOTE;1 >>>
-< FOOTBALL >-
================================================================================
Note 222.51 Rule changes 51 of 61
CARTUN::BERGART "Jeff-the-ref" 48 lines 8-MAR-1993 21:48
-< How about a Kickback Quiz?!! >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK HERE GOES! I DO NOT PRETEND TO BE 100% CORRECT.
OTHER OPINIONS WELCOME!! [ MY ANSWERS ARE IN CAP'S ]
BY THE WAY, AS AN OVERALL COMMENT, I BELIEVE THAT THE LAW
STATES THAT AN IFK IS AWARDED IT WILL BE TAKEN AT THE POINT
THE GOALIE PICKS UP THE BALL (NOT WHERE LAST KICKED), UNLESS
ITS INSIDE THE GOAL AREA IN WHICH CASE IT COMES OUT TO THE
GOAL AREA FRONT LINE.
1) Team A has a direct free kick (DFK) from inside their
penalty area. Player 1 kicks the ball into the air
a few yards to player 2 who heads it to their
goalie inside the penalty area who catches the
ball.
YELLOW GIVEN TO P1 FOR TRICKERY (I KNOW ITS UNFAIR THAT P2
HEADED IT TO THE GOALIE, BUT THAT'S WHAT THEY SAID IT IS!!).
THE REASON IT'S TRICKERY IS THAT P2 WAS WITHIN THE 10 YDS
OF THE DFK AND, THEREFORE, IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE OTHER
TEAM TO CONTEST P2'S HEADER.
RESTART IS REPEAT DFK FOR TEAM A! -- BECAUSE BALL NEVER WAS IN
IN PLAY DUE TO TRICKERY FROM A DEAD BALL SITUATION.
2) same as 1) except the DFK is taken outside of the penalty
area.
SAME ANSWER AS #1!! DOESN'T REALLY MATTER WHERE DEAD BALL IS
AT START OF THE PLAY. CLEARLY IF IT'S INSIDE OF PENALTY AREA
AND P2 IS ALSO INSIDE, THEN TRICKERY IS A CLEAR CALL. IT'S
HARDER IF P2 IS MORE THAN 10 YDS AWAY, OUTSIDE OF THE PENALTY
AREA AND NOT CONTESTED.
3) Goal kick. Goalie kicks it to player 1 outside of
the penalty area who heads it back to the goalie
who catches it.
PLAY ON!!! THE DEFENSE HAS THE RIGHT TO CONTEST THE GOAL KICK.
REMEMBER, THIS IS A DEAD BALL START, NOT PART OF A CONTINUING
PLAY --- BIG DIFFERENCE ACCORDING TO THE STATE REFEREE REP.
KEY POINT IS THAT P1 WAS OUTSIDE THE PENALTY AREA!
4) Player 1 takes a throw-in and throws the ball to
the goalie who kicks it a few yards and then picks it
up to boot it out of the penalty area.
OK! REMEMBER, INTENTIONAL/KICKED/HANDS BY GOALIE. A THROW IN
DID NOT START WITH A KICK, THEREFORE, NO INFRACTION.
5) Player 1 does a fair slide tackle on the offense,
which results in him kicking the ball to his goalie.
EITHER WAY IS CORRECT. FOR JR'S ITS PROBABLY PLAY ON. FOR
PRO'S IT COULD BE CALLED AN IFK FOR TEAM B.
6) Player 1 races back on a break away and kicks the
ball ahead to the goalie who lunges outside of the
penalty area to make the stop.
IT'S A DIRECT KICK FOR TEAM B! NORMALLY ITS AN IFK, BUT A HAND
BALL BY THE GOALIE OUTSIDE THE PENALTY BOX IS A MORE SERIOUS
MATTER. PETER IS CORRECT THAT IF IT WAS ALSO A BREAKAWAY
SCORING OPPORTUNITY, THEN A RED CARD WOULD BE CORRECT. (EDUARD
I DON'T KNOW WHY YOU'D CALL CONTINUE PLAY)
7) Same as 6, but the goalie instead kicks the ball
from outside of the penalty area and then picks it
up when it crosses into the penalty area.
IFK FOR TEAM B AT POINT OF GOALIE PICK-UP. (PETER, JUST BECAUSE
THE GOALIE KICKS IT BEFORE HE PICKS IT UP DOESN'T "WAVE OFF"
THE CALL.)
8) Player 1 kicks the ball back to his goalie, but he
hits it too hard! The goalie makes a great save
catching the ball just before it goes into the net.
IFK TO TEAM B FROM WHERE GOALIE CAUGHT THE BALL EXCEPT IF
INSIDE GOAL AREA IT COMES OUT TO FRONT GOAL AREA LINE.
9) same as 8 above, but directly from a goal kick taken
by team A.
PROBABLY JUST A RETAKE!! YOU SEE, EVEN THOUGH GOALIE CAUGHT
THE BALL, THERE WAS NO TRICKERY INVOLVED. ALSO, UNTIL THE BALL
CROSSES THE PENALTY AREA, IT'S NOT IN PLAY. ( HERE IS A
PLACE THAT I AM DEFINATELY NOT SURE OF THE CALL!!!)
10) During play, player 1 is pressured, so he kicks the
ball to player 2, who heads it to the goalie.
NO CALL! THIS IS PREFECTLY LEGAL SINCE P1 WAS UNDER PRESSURE
DURING DYNAMIC PLAY.
WELL HOW'D YOU DO? (ESPECIALLY ALL YOU FOLKS WHO READ, BUT DID
NOT TRY THE TEST!) THIS IS NOT AN EASY LAW TO ENFORCE.
BEST REGARDS,
JEFF
|
222.63 | Shome mishundershtanding... | KBOMFG::KOEPPE | Think Imaginary... | Fri Mar 12 1993 07:56 | 23 |
| Re answer 6):
Jeff it was a misunderstanding. I read English and thought German,
i.e I translated to "make the stop" as "den Ball stoppen" which means
to stop the ball with your foot!
BTW, a similar situation - although not a back pass - happened on
Wednesday's super cup match FC Barcelona - Werder Bremen.
A long pass towards the penalty area by a Barca player with a
Barca player and a defender in the center running for the ball,
the goalie dived for the ball and skidded just a bit outside the
penalty area with the ball in his hand (very unfortunate).
The goalie got the red card for deliberately handling the ball
outside the penalty area (a very hard decision, but according to
the rules acceptable). So Bremen had to substitute a player with
a goalie who's first action was to pick up the ball from inside
the goal, scored by a superb free kick from Stoichkov (15th Min.).
Bremen had to carry on with 10 players and in the end lost
2 - 1 . Barcelona won deservedly and could have scored half a dozen
goals in the second half against a completely worn out an torn
apart defense.
Eduard
|
222.64 | More on the backpass law | SOLVIT::CAMPKIN | Resident Alien | Wed May 26 1993 16:01 | 31 |
| Hi - I'm relatively new to this conference and am a referee in New
Hampshire. I've been skimming through this note and thought it might
help if I entered the actual text of the FIFA circular that was sent out
concerning the backpass law. This letter will not appear in the rule
book but is intended to help referees interpret the new law.
"Subject to the terms of Law XII, a player may pass the ball to his
own goalkeeper using his head or chest or knee, etc. If, however, in
the opinion of the referee, a player uses a deliberate trick in
order to circumvent the amendment to Law XII, the player will be
guilty of ungentlemanly conduct and will be punished accordingly in
the terms of Law XII; that is to say, the player will be cautioned
and an indirect free-kick will be awarded to the opposing team from
the place where the player committed the offense.
Examples of such tricks would include: a player who deliberately
flicks the ball with his feet up onto his head in order to head the
ball to his goalkeeper; or, a player who kneels down and
deliberately pushes the ball to the goalkeeper with his knee, etc.
In such circumstances, it is irrelevant whether the goalkeeper
subsequently touches the ball with his hands or not. The offense is
committed by the player in attempting to circumvent both the text
and spirit of Law XII, and the referee must only be convinced that
this was the player's motive."
One of the important sections is the last paragraph where 'intent' is
penalized. This 'intent' also applies to other sections of Law XII and
I'll post a small quiz next to see how you would call some situations.
Gerry
|
222.65 | Short quiz | SOLVIT::CAMPKIN | Resident Alien | Wed May 26 1993 16:21 | 29 |
| OK - a short quiz along the lines of the one Jeff did a few weeks ago.
These items come from a recent edition of Referee magazine. if you've
seen it please don't bother to answer, otherwise have a go!
1. During play, Two players both end up over the goal-line inside the
net. The defender then deliberately kicks the attacker. The ball is
still in play. What should the referee do?
2. During the game a coach/manager continually directs verbal abuse
towards the referee. What should the referee do?
3. If the abuse continues what should the referee do?
4. An attacker is running alone towards the goal with the ball. He/she
pushes the ball around the goalkeeper. The goalkeeper throws
himself towards the attacker. The attacker stumbles and falls though
the goalkeeper did not touch him/her. What action should the referee
take?
5. An attacker has the ball inside of the penalty area. A defender
starts to tackle him/her. The attacker gets the ball past the
defender but has to jump to avoid getting kicked. Because of this
he/she can no longer get the ball. What should the referee do?
I'll post the answers in a few days.
Gerry
|
222.66 | Re: 222.65 -- Nice Quiz! | CARTUN::BERGART | Jeff-the-ref | Wed May 26 1993 17:29 | 13 |
| Re: 222.65
Gerry,
I don't remember this test. Good to see some activity
regarding the Laws and Refereeing!! I'll give it a shot, ... but I'll
wait a day or two so that others can try.
[For all you other refs out there, how about sharing your "tough",
"best", "worse" etc. experiences in the "Men in Black" topic.]
Jeff-the-ref
(Always available for true "Friendlies.")
|
222.67 | Answers from a non-referee | FORTY2::ROBERTSON | Living with Flamingos on the DELTA | Wed May 26 1993 17:41 | 17 |
| I'll start....
1. Wait until the ball goas dead and then caution the offending player. No
penalty sould result as the players are off the field of play.
2. Caution the coach
e.g. "Mr. Souness will you please be quiet"
3. Send the coach off
e.g. "Mr. Souness!!! You're out of here!!!"
4. If no attempt was made for the ball then, as no contact was made,
allow play to continue, but caution the keeper for ungentlemanly conduct,
once the ball goes dead. Awarding a penalty would set a precedent for attackers
to fall over when challenged at every opportunity.
5. Nothing.
|
222.68 | | SOLVIT::GRTVAX::THERRIEN | | Thu May 27 1993 22:49 | 28 |
| RE: .65
#1.
Well, because the foul did not take place "IN" the penalty area, I would treat
it as any other foul occurring off the playing field. I'd call for an IFK for
the attacking team from the goal line. Thay would probably anger numerous fans
(as well as most of the readers of this reply) but I'll have to be convinced
that another call is proper.
#4.
Because it was a break-away (the attacker is "running alone"), and because the
keeper did not "play the ball", I'd send-off the keeper and award a penalty
kick to the attacking team. I'm confident this decision will make me as popular
as my decision in #1.
#5.
This one allows for lots of interpretation as to why the attacker "jumped to
avoid being kicked". If I believe that the defender "attempted" to kick the
attacker, then I'd award a penalty kick. If I believed otherwise, I'd allow
play to continue.
#2 and #4.
I don't like these, so I'm not going to answer them to any more detail than to
say I would include comments about this verbal abuse in my referees report.
|
222.69 | It's easy this refereeing lark...NOT | PAKORA::CDOUDIE | Wembley '67, We scuddit them ! | Fri May 28 1993 09:19 | 32 |
|
Re .65
My answers below, next screen if you don't want a look yet.
#1
Stop play if defence got ball, play on if attack got ball to see if
they score. When play stops send off defender and restart with a
drop ball on the six yard line if play was stopped for offence or
restart as normal.
#2 + #3
Send them away or to the stand and caution them and report all
foul language etc.
#4
Penalty, the law states, kick or attempt to kick etc etc
^^^^^^^
Oh, and send off the keeper.
#5
As above, a penalty but all things can be viewed differently, you
would have to be sure it was a dliberate attempt to stop the player
with foul play, i.e. is the ground wet and he couldn't stop sliding
etc,. No two offences are the same.
Colin.
|
222.70 | Think before you whistle !! | MASALA::CDOUDIE | Wembley '67, We scuddit them ! | Fri May 28 1993 09:55 | 14 |
|
Here's a wee poser.....
The attacker gets the ball about 25 yds out. He is then fouled by a
defender, just an ordinary foul, no cautions involved. He stands up,
the defender moves away to dispute the decision with the referee.
This leaves no one between the attacker and the goal, i.e. in an
offside position, another attacker runs up, places the ball just
behind our fouled player, touches it forward to him and he runs
round the keeper and slots the ball into the net.
Would you give the goal ????? And why/why not !!!!
colin.
|
222.71 | Replies to .65 & .70 | CARTUN::BERGART | Jeff-the-ref | Tue Jun 01 1993 17:00 | 71 |
| re .70 (see next page)
IMHO:
NO GOAL. The guy was in an offside position, and attempted to gain an
unfair advantage. (Makes no difference WHY the defender "moved up.")
You can be offsides in a Direct and Indirect Free Kick. A twist would
be to have the defender complain about giving the other team a
throw-in! Because there is NO offsides on throw-ins. I've never seen
a team take advantage of this -- who knows why?
P.S. If the ref had said, "on my whistle" and the kick was taken
before the whistle, then rather than offsides, the kick would have to
be taken again.
re .65 (see next page)
IMHO (without reading the other replies):
1. During play, Two players both end up over the goal-line inside the
net. The defender then deliberately kicks the attacker. The ball is
still in play. What should the referee do?
The players are outside of the pitch. Therefore, play should continue.
At the next stoppage, the ref gives the defender a yellow for unsports-
man like conduct. OR!! If serious, the ref can stop play, award the
yellow (or red) and then restart WITH A DROP BALL AT THE POINT THE
BALL WAS AT THE STOPPAGE. If a red is issued, I'd say that team
plays one man down (ANY COMMENTS ON THIS!!). If the defender was not
a player, but say a sub, then the team plays with full strength, but
has one less sub.
2. During the game a coach/manager continually directs verbal abuse
towards the referee. What should the referee do?
Verbally warn the coach to "settle down" In many leagues, a ref can
give a coach a yellow card.
3. If the abuse continues what should the referee do?
The coach can be asked to leave the pitch (with or without a red card
given - depending on the league). In some leagues, if there is no
"official" assistant coach who has a league identity card, the match
at this point would be abandoned.
4. An attacker is running alone towards the goal with the ball. He/she
pushes the ball around the goalkeeper. The goalkeeper throws
himself towards the attacker. The attacker stumbles and falls though
the goalkeeper did not touch him/her. What action should the referee
take?
Key word is "attempts." The laws say that the act is all that is
needed to commit the foul. Depending on the situation, it's either
a red card (Breakaway), or yellow (serious foul), or no card. And
also depending, the restart would be a direct or penalty kick.
5. An attacker has the ball inside of the penalty area. A defender
starts to tackle him/her. The attacker gets the ball past the
defender but has to jump to avoid getting kicked. Because of this
he/she can no longer get the ball. What should the referee do?
I think this is OK - i.e. no foul. Of course, I'm assuming that
the defender does a LEGAL tackle. (i.e. both legs on the ground, going
for the ball). If the defender kicks his legs up a foot into the air
then (s)he is guilty of "Attempting" to trip, in which case see #4
above. If, IN THE OPINION OF THE REFEREE, the defender is attempting to
just block the progress of the attacker, then the ref can call
obstruction and give an INDIRECT kick.
|
222.72 | Another tough question! | CARTUN::BERGART | Jeff-the-ref | Tue Jun 01 1993 17:08 | 20 |
| Here's a real "live" question from a recent match!
Team "A" is given a corner kick. Before they take it, their coach yells,
"Ref, goalie change." Ref says "no subs." Coach yells, "Don't want to
sub, just want to change goalie with a player currently on the field."
What should the ref do??
a) Stop play & let them change.
b) Make them take the kick, but tell the coach he can
make the change while the match continues.
c) Make them wait until next stop in play. And if so, what
stoppage is OK?
Now, would you have picked a different option if the team defending the
corner kick had asked to change their goalie?
|
222.73 | Looked easy at first! | BONNET::HARDY | | Tue Jun 01 1993 17:56 | 28 |
| Jeff,
Team "A" is given a corner kick. Before they take it, their coach
yells, "Ref, goalie change." Ref says "no subs." Coach yells, "Don't
want to sub, just want to change goalie with a player currently on the
field."
What should the ref do??
I would allow the change making it quite clear that I had added on time
for doing so. The reason being that the ball is out of play at the
time. Also if you don't allow this and team B clears and scores, you've
got real problems.
It gets tricky if this is used as a clear time wasting tactic (eg
changing again), at which time the cautioning the coach option comes
into play. Another option (against the timewasting) might be to call
both captains together and explain that you will only take calls for
goalkeper changes from then and that you will consider unjustified
changes to be ungentlemanly conduct.
Get's complicated doesn't it!
Peter.
Peter.
|
222.74 | Rules are Rules! | ESOA12::PILATON | Nick Pilato DECUS IM&T Supervisor | Tue Jun 01 1993 19:02 | 3 |
| No matter how you look at it....... There are no subs in a corner kick!!
Nick
|
222.75 | Not allowed | SOLVIT::CAMPKIN | Resident Alien | Tue Jun 01 1993 19:45 | 6 |
| Have to agree with -.1. At least in Southern New Hampshire the rules
are no subs or goalie exchanges at a corner kick. Basically exchanging
goalies is treated the same as bringing on a sub. However rules on this
tend to differ from area to area so it might be fine in other places.
Gerry
|
222.76 | offside | SOLVIT::CAMPKIN | Resident Alien | Tue Jun 01 1993 19:52 | 13 |
| Re. the 'wee poser':-
The attacker gets the ball about 25 yds out. He is then fouled by a
defender, just an ordinary foul, no cautions involved. He stands up,
the defender moves away to dispute the decision with the referee.
This leaves no one between the attacker and the goal, i.e. in an
offside position, another attacker runs up, places the ball just
behind our fouled player, touches it forward to him and he runs
round the keeper and slots the ball into the net.
OFFSIDE. NO GOAL.
Gerry
|
222.77 | Anwers to Quiz | SOLVIT::CAMPKIN | Resident Alien | Tue Jun 01 1993 20:05 | 73 |
| Answers to the short quiz:-
1. During play, two players both end up over the goal-line inside the
net. The defender then deliberately kicks the attacker. The ball is
still in play. What should the referee do?
THE REFEREE ACTUALLY HAS A CHOICE! HE CAN DECIDE, IF THE SITUATION
WARRANTS IT, TO STOP PLAY IMMEDIATELY OR HE CAN WAIT UNTIL A NATURAL
STOPPAGE. IN EITHER CASE HE SHOULD WARN THE PLAYERS INVOLVED AND
FORMALLY CAUTION IF NECESSARY. A FREE-KICK FOR A FOUL CAN ONLY BE
AWARDED FOR AN ACT COMMITTED ON THE FIELD OF PLAY, AND THE AREA
INSIDE A GOAL NET IS NOT ON THE FIELD OF PLAY. THUS IF THE REFEREE
STOPPED PLAY IT IS RESTARTED WITH A DROPPED BALL AT THE POINT WHERE
HE STOPPPED PLAY. IF THE REFEREE DECIDES ON A RED CARD, THAT SIDE
THEN PLAYS ONE MAN SHORT. EVEN THOUGH HE WAS OFF THE FIELD AT THE
TIME OF THE INCIDENT HE IS STILL A MEMBER OF THAT TEAM (AS OPPOSED TO
A SUBSTITUTE) AND CANNOT BE REPLACED. (to answer your point Jeff).
2. During the game a coach/manager continually directs verbal abuse
towards the referee. What should the referee do?
YELLOW AND RED CARDS CAN ONLY BE SHOWN TO PLAYERS AND SUBSTITUTES
(THOUGH MANY COACHES I HAVE MET HAVE COMPLAINED THAT THEY HAVE BEEN
'CARDED'!). THE REFEREE'S INITIAL ACTION SHOULD BE TO ISSUE A
VERBAL WARNING TO TO THE OFFENDER.
JEFF YOU COMMENT THAT SOME LEAGUES ALLOW 'CARDING' OF COACHES. I
HAVE CERTAINLY HEARD OF THAT THOUGH THAT IN ITSELF IS ILLEGAL. ANY
ORGANIZATION PLAYING UNDER FIFA RULES CAN ONLY MAKE CHANGES TO THOSE
RULES IN FOUR AREAS. ANYONE KNOW WHAT THOSE FOUR AREAS ARE?
3. If the abuse continues what should the referee do?
IF THE ABUSE CONTINUES THE REFEREE SHOULD DISMISS THE OFFENDER FROM
THE FIELD AND OFFICIALLY REPORT THE INCIDENT TO HIS/HER GOVERNING
BODY. 'FROM THE FIELD' MEANS TOTALLY AWAY FROM THE GAME. THAT
PERSON IS NOT ALLOWED TO SIMPLY GO INTO THE CROWD AND CONTINUE TO
WATCH THE GAME (THOUGH THIS DOES HAPPEN).
4. An attacker is running alone towards the goal with the ball. He/she
pushes the ball around the goalkeeper. The goalkeeper throws
himself towards the attacker. The attacker stumbles and falls though
the goalkeeper did not touch him/her. What action should the referee
take?
LAW XII REQUIRES PUNISHMENT FOR TRIPPING OR ATTEMPTING TO TRIP AN
OPPONENT. IF THE REFEREE BELIEVES THAT THE GOALKEEPER WAS MAKING A
DELIBERATE ATTEMPT TO STOP THE ATTACKER THEN THE CORRECT DECISION IS
TO AWARD A FREE-KICK OR PENALTY DEPENDING WHERE THE ATTEMPT TOOK
PLACE. SINCE THE ACTION PREVENTS A GOAL BEING SCORED THE GOALKEEPER
SHOULD BE SHOWN THE RED CARD. HAVING SAID THIS THERE OBVIOUSLY ARE
CASES WHEN THE ATTACKER TAKES 'A DIVE'. THE REFEREE HAS TO MAKE A
SPLIT SECOND DECISION IN THESE CASES AND OFTEN AT PROFESSIONAL LEVEL
SUFFER INTERROGATION BY TV SLOW MOTION REPLAY OR AT LOCAL JUNIOR
LEVEL INCUR THE WRATH OF ONE OR OTHER SET OF PARENTS! THIS IS A
WHOLE OTHER TOPIC WHICH WE CAN TALK ABOUT LATER.
5. An attacker has the ball inside of the penalty area. A defender
starts to tackle him/her. The attacker gets the ball past the
defender but has to jump to avoid getting kicked. Because of this
he/she can no longer get the ball. What should the referee do?
SAME ANSWER AS 4. KICKING OR ATTEMPTING TO KICK CARRY THE SAME
PUNISHMENT. THIS SHOULD BE THE DECISION EVEN IF WAS A LEGITIMATE BUT
FAILED ATTEMPT BY THE DEFENDER TO TACKLE. IN THIS CASE A PENALTY.
Thanks to all those that answered - I'll try to come up with more
questions later.
Gerry
|
222.78 | My guess at .77 question | CARTUN::BERGART | Jeff-the-ref | Tue Jun 01 1993 21:26 | 35 |
| re .77 questions (next page)
There are 4 local "adjustments" that can be made to FIFA rules.
They are for children, & women [and over 30 (or 40?) year old
men have such adjustments around here but I don't remember seeing
them included in the Law book].
1) Length of each half
2) Size of Ball
3) Size of Goals
4) Number of Substitutions (as well as allowing for
reentry of a player who came out for a sub)
But locally we also have the number of players as a variable (Both
on the field and on the roster). And with reduced number of players,
we have smaller fields as well (e.g. 6 on 6). Some young leagues
do not allow penalty kicks, and some allow one coach on the field
from each team. ETC!!
I, for one, wish that there was a unified youngster set of laws.
For every youngster league I ref, I need a cheat sheet telling me
the unique "Rules" they have (From when one can substitute, to
whether both teams keep their subs on the same side of the field!).
Regards,
Jeff
*******************************************************************
P.S. REWARD FOR THE MOST OBSCURE LEAGUE RULE!! (I Have a good one
I'll share later)
*******************************************************************
|
222.79 | Queries on the back of a tenner !! | MASALA::CDOUDIE | Zig....IN YOUR FACE !! | Tue Jun 01 1993 21:54 | 20 |
|
Answer to .70, a wee poser
You've got to give a goal.
The player places the ball just behind the fouled player and touches it
forward to him.
He's onside. There now follows a party political explanation.
To be offside you have to be in front of the ball and our player was,
but the ball is not in play until it has travelled it's full
circumference so technically he is still onside as the ball passes him.
As for the ref blowing the whistle, he doesn't blow in a way as to take
the advantage away from the fouled team, so he plays on as happens when
teams take quick free kicks.
colin
|
222.80 | sometimes yes, sometimes no | SOLVIT::CAMPKIN | Resident Alien | Wed Jun 02 1993 03:55 | 8 |
| Re. the goalkeeper change, I wasn't entirely happy with the answer I gave
so I looked it up tonight. As I thought the rules vary a great deal
from place to place. Pure FIFA allows goalkeeping substitutions at a
corner. The United States Soccer Federation is the same. Local rules
allow it in some areas and not otehrs. I was wrong in that Southern New
Hampshire does allow it but NH High Schools do not.
Gerry
|
222.81 | | SOLVIT::CAMPKIN | Resident Alien | Wed Jun 02 1993 04:03 | 11 |
| Colin - your 'wee poser' answer is very interesting! You are certainly
correct in that the receiver of the ball is technically behind the ball
at the moment of the kick if he is within 27 inches of the kick (the
circumference of the ball). You'd need your ruler out to make sure!!
If however the ball was passed directly to him within that distance
the kick would have to be re-taken as the ball had not gone into play.
If it was played past him and he ran on to it, fine.
A good problem. Simple game isn't it!
Gerry
|
222.82 | Variations to FIFA laws | SOLVIT::CAMPKIN | Resident Alien | Wed Jun 02 1993 04:14 | 13 |
| Local adjustments to FIFA rules (there are 5 not 4 as I said before):-
The laws may be modified for games involving players under 16 years, for
women, and for veterans (over 35 according to FIFA!) in the following
ways:-
1. Size of field of play
2. Size, weight, and material of the ball
3. Size of goal
4. Duration of play
5. Number of substitutions
Gerry
|
222.83 | | SOLVIT::GRTVAX::THERRIEN | | Wed Jun 02 1993 14:05 | 10 |
| RE: .79
The rules are explicit in identifying when a player, who is in an offside
position, is not to be called offside. All other situations should strictly
follow the offside rule.
I'd call offside in the situation you described, whether or not the player was
within the circumference of the ball.
Gerry
|
222.84 | You can stand 26" in front off the ball !! | KIRKTN::CDOUDIE | Zig....IN YOUR FACE !! | Wed Jun 02 1993 20:42 | 6 |
|
.....but you can only be offside when the ball is in PLAY and has
been passed forward.......he's not offside. Remember the ball is not
in play until it has travelled it's full circumference.
colin
|
222.85 | A refs opinion... | MIACT::RANKINE | | Thu Jun 03 1993 16:36 | 11 |
| re .77
Answer to No5.
A tackle is not a kick or attempted kick, and therefore I cannot see
how a foul, or penalty, can be awarded. If the tackle was a genuine
attempt at the ball then the fact that the attacker has to jump over
the defender is irrelevant.
Paul
|
222.86 | the end of throwins? | ZIGLAR::FOXWELL | OSF/ULTRIX/UNIX Specialist | Sun Aug 22 1993 23:34 | 10 |
| As I write this, the US Spanish Language TV channel (Univision) is
broadcasting a game from Japan between Mexico and Italy.
No throwins. Ball is placed on the touchline at the point of
exit of the ball, then kicked in. Kicks from within 20 yards
of the goal line can be exciting...like a corner kick with
a better angle.
Is this an experiment leading to a possible rule change?
|
222.87 | Kick in ? | KERNEL::WITHALLG | Perfection in Near Human Form | Mon Aug 23 1993 19:53 | 11 |
|
-1.
I hope not. As a right back I am just getting distance on my throws.
Kicking the ball leaves a lot to be desired.
Stick to throw-ins please Footballing Ruling Persons.
Gary.
|
222.88 | One other change i recall | AIMTEC::WICKS_A | U.S.A 2 England 0 - I was there! | Tue Aug 31 1993 01:23 | 7 |
| The J-league has a number of rule changes from standard leagues - if I
can find the article i'll list them all but I also remember that they
also have sudden-death extra time i'm sure there were others.
regards,
Andrew.D.wicks
|
222.89 | J League rules, stars etc. | MIACT::CLARKSON | | Tue Aug 31 1993 15:53 | 67 |
| I enclose a note I extracted from another conference by my good friend
Fumito Kondo in Nagoya.
<<< JIT081::$81$DUA11:[NOTES$LIBRARY]JPNCLT.NOTE;1 >>>
-< The People and Culture of Japan >-
================================================================================
Note 323.1 J-league 1 of 2
TKOV50::F_KONDO 99 lines 28-MAY-1993 17:59
-< Lineker is here >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave-san,
I'm pleased to find you on the VAXnotes.
> - who are the Japanese stars?
Japanese most popular soccer star is KAZU.
His full name is Kazuyoshi Miura. He had palyed in Santos Brazil about four
years ago. He was born in Shizuoka prefecture which is the one of the most
vigorous soccer place in Japan.
When his 15 years old, KAZU drop out high school, then move to Brazil only
himself for study professional soccer of Brazil.
He had grow up as professional soccer player through his rigorous training.
Finally, he became star player in Santos. He returned to Japan in 1990, or
1989 I forgot exactly.
There is another famous player Ramos Rui. Ramos is originally Brazilian.
He played soccer in Japan very long time. After his marriage with Japanese girl,
he was naturalized to Japanese. Now he play in Japan national team together
with KAZU. This is the best combi. KAZU and Ramos for Japan national team.
KAZU and Ramos both belongs Verdy Kawasaki. Verdy will play against to Aston
Villa in this July. This game will be exciting.
> Are there any J-league specific rules?
JFA(Japan Football Association) has belongs to FIFA. Therefore FIFA rules is
JFA rules. However, J-league thought, they want to make all game will play
exciting.
They desided all J-league match should be played without tie.
If the game was tie after play 90 minutes. They will play extre time 30
minutes with sudden death. If the game was tie after extra time, they will
play PK match with sudden death. Therefore there is no tie in J-league.
Originally FIFA object to J-league plan. After many discussion, FIFA has
approve of this plan as experimentally perform.
Other rule is the same as FIFA.
> - How big are the crowds?
The first opening game Verdy Kawasaki vs Marinos Yokohama was 60,000 in the
Japan national stadium.
J-league has playing Wednesday, and Saturday in every weeks.
The average spectator of each game is about 20,000.
Most of J-league stadium can admit only 15,000~30,000. The only Japan National
stadium can admit 60,000.
By the way, the Mizuho stadium in Nagoya which has performed the game Grampus
vs. Marinos in 5/22 was 15,000 full spectator, although it was the heavy rain.
I was one of the spectator with dripping wet.
> - How did interest get generated in the game?
Is this means how do we excite in the game?
The most of Japanese soccer supportor copied support style from soccer
advanced country. Last year, most of Japanese soccer fan enjoyed Samba rhythm
in the game.
This year, the new trend appeared. It is Italian style as sing a song
"Ole-Oh-Oh" or "Ole-ole-ole-ole".
Especially, Grampus 8 has Lineker which is Englishman, therefore Grampus office
recommend to support by European style.
|
222.90 | Suggestion | MTWAIN::BURROWS | | Tue Jul 19 1994 20:43 | 21 |
| I believe FIFA can solve much of the lack-of-scoring-slow-pace-play-for-PKs
mentality we have witnessed without tampering with the offside rule,
the size of the net, etc. by allowing unlimited substitution and re-entry
into the game. This will make for a much higher constant work-level on
the field, and therefore and more goals in the regulation time and in OT.
Picture the WC final we have just witnessed with just that one change.
Baggio can be rested and reinserted at full potential; Signori gets to
play as he gives Mussaro a rest, Zola comes in for 30 minutes and runs
his Brasilian counterpart ragged knowing he can give his all in those
30 minutes, etc. Not to be outdone, Brasil makes sure that Romario,
Bebito, et al are fresh.
A 100% fresh substitute can work much harder than a starter at 70% stamina.
Also, the starter comes BACK IN at 95-100% stamina again.
An added bonus is the coaching strategy decisions created. Do I take
out Baresi for a break? If I do, is my team too weak in the back, even
with him at 65% stamina now, what will the other coach do, etc.?
Clark
|
222.91 | | XAPPL::HINXMAN | Be not too hard | Tue Jul 19 1994 20:54 | 16 |
| Beg pardon, but "high work rate" is what got us into this mess.
Back in the days when forwards didn't cover back when their
teams were on the defensive, there used to be more goals. If all
eleven players are always ready to sprint back to pack their
penalty area, we'll see even fewer goals.
> An added bonus is the coaching strategy decisions created. Do I take
> out Baresi for a break? If I do, is my team too weak in the back, even
> with him at 65% stamina now, what will the other coach do, etc.?
I don't think most soccer fans would see this as a bonus. Soccer
is about what the players on the pitch can do. "When the game starts
the manager's job is finished."
Tony
|
222.92 | Simple change, big potential | PAKORA::AMILLAR | And some late news just in.... | Wed Jul 20 1994 08:28 | 7 |
|
re .90
Sounds good to me.
Archie
|
222.93 | How about 2 free throws for each foul? | GLDOA::BOSSONNEY | | Wed Jul 20 1994 20:49 | 7 |
| re.90
Heresy!
I have witnessed such practices at work (high school level here in the
U.S) and the result is organized mayhem....I don't think that any coach
would like this... too much break-down in assignments....
Jacques
|
222.94 | | MTWAIN::BURROWS | | Wed Jul 20 1994 22:24 | 14 |
| re: <<< Note 222.93 by GLDOA::BOSSONNEY >>>
>>>...too much break-down in assignments....
These are national team-level players, coming in fresh. Breakdowns
in assignments or in the continuity of the game would be unforgivable
in my opinion; they are professionals, and should be able to handle it.
I have seen many high school and premier level youth games where
substitution and re-entry has resulted in a huge increase in
on-the-field action and excitement, with little or no breakdown,
when there is not a large disparity in talent between the starters
and the subs.
Clark
|
222.95 | New Laws | BOSEPM::CAMPKIN | Bitter is sweet | Fri Nov 18 1994 00:49 | 4 |
| Anyone who wants an electronic copy of the latest version of the
Laws send me mail (they are too long to put in here).
Gerry
|
222.96 | Law changes 1995 | A1VAX::CAMPKIN | Bitter is sweet | Wed May 24 1995 15:32 | 171 |
| SUMMARY OF THE 1995 FIFA LAW CHANGES
At the 109th annual meeting of the International Football
Association Board, held in Ayrshire, Scotland, on 4 March 1995, a
number of amendments were made to the Laws of the Game and the
accompanying decisions. These Law revisions were distributed to
the member associations of FIFA in Circular no. 560 dated 2 May
1995, and are to take effect on 1 July 1995. For seasons that are
underway on that date, implementation of the changes may be
postponed until the start of the following season.
1. LAW III (Number Of Players): Substitution
For games played under the jurisdiction of FIFA, Confederations
(e.g. CONCACAF), or National Associations (e.g. USSF), the rules
of competition may permit the use of up to three substitutes from
a nominated list of up to five. Only those substitutes whose names
are given to the referee prior to the match are eligible for
substitution. This revision removes the rather complicated
two-plus-one (i.e., two field players plus a goalkeeper) ruling
made in 1994.
2. LAW VII (Duration of the Game): Length of Half-time
The maximum length of the half-time interval, which must be given
in the rules of the competition, was increased from five minutes
to fifteen minutes. The duration of the half-time interval can be
altered only with the permission of the referee.
3. LAW XI (Offside)
The phrase "seeking to gain" an advantage has been replaced with
"gaining" an advantage, and the Law now requires that a player in
an offside position be "involved in active play" before he or she
can be called offside. Paragraph two of Law XI now reads:
2. It is not an offense in itself to be in an offside position. A
player shall only be penalised for being in an offside
position if, at the moment the ball touches, or is played by,
one of his team, he is, in the opinion of the referee,
involved in active play by:
(a) interfering with play, or
(b) interfering with an opponent, or
(c) gaining an advantage by being in that position.
New diagrams illustrating offside are promised for the 1995
edition of the FIFA Laws of the Game.
4. LAW XII (Fouls and Misconduct): The Ten Penal Fouls
There are now ten penal fouls, rather than nine. The word
intentionally has been removed from Law XII, but handling the ball
must be deliberate to be a foul. Only the new text for the penal
fouls is given here, but some comments about the deleted text is
provided. Law XII now reads, in part:
A player who commits any of the following six offenses in a manner
considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or involving
disproportionate force:
(a) kicks or attempts to kick an opponent; or
(b) trips an opponent; or
(c) jumps at an opponent; or
(d) charges an opponent; or
(e) strikes or attempts to strike an opponent; or
(f) pushes an opponent;
or who commits any of the following four offenses:
(g) when tackling an opponent makes contact with the opponent
before contact is made with the ball; or
(h) spits at an opponent; or
(i) holds an opponent; or
(j) handles the ball deliberately, i.e., carries, strikes or
propels the ball with his hand or arm (this does not apply to the
goalkeeper within his own penalty-area);
shall be penalized ... (The rest of the text is unchanged except
for reference to ten fouls instead of nine and removal of the word
intentionally.)
Note that the tripping foul no longer contains the words i.e.,
throwing or "attempting to throw him" ... , finally bringing to an
end the contention of some that the attempt to trip was a penal
foul.
5. LAW XII (Fouls and Misconduct): The Non-penal Fouls
The words intentionally obstructing have been removed from the 3rd
non-penal foul, which now reads:
3. when not playing the ball, impeding the progress of an
opponent, i.e. running between the opponent and the ball, or
interposing the body so as to form an obstacle to an opponent;
6. LAW XII (Fouls and Misconduct): The International Board Decisions
The changes to Law XII have necessitated the revision of several
of the decisions following the Law.
Old decisions (2) and (3) have been deleted, and the subsequent
decisions renumbered. The renumbered decisions (2)-(5), (8)-(9),
(11)-(12) and (14)-(16) are unchanged. For the following three
decisions, only the affected portions are given; refer to your
1994 FIFA Laws of the Game to complete their wording:
(1) If the goalkeeper either strikes an opponent by throwing the
ball at him or pushes him with the ball while still holding
it, the referee shall award a ...
(6) If a player positions his arms to impede an opponent ...
(7) If a player impedes the progress of the opposing goalkeeper,
in an attempt to prevent him from playing the ball in
accordance with Law XII, 5(a) ..
The word intentionally has been deleted from renumbered decisions
(10) and (13). Decisions (13) and (14) concern fouls which deny an
opponent a goal or obvious goal-scoring opportunity. Although the
word intentionally was previously in both of these decisions, the
circular indicates a change only in (13), and states that (14) is
unchanged. However, since a hand ball foul must be deliberate,
decision (14) will probably be reworded sometime in the future,
perhaps when the 1995 Law Book is published.
7. LAW XIV (Penalty-kick): Where Players Must Stand
An additional requirement has been added concerning where players
must stand when a penalty-kick is being taken. The first paragraph
of Law XIV now reads:
A penalty kick shall be taken from the penalty-mark and, when it
is being taken, all players with the exception of the player
taking the kick, properly identified, and the opposing goalkeeper,
shall be within the field of play but outside the penalty area, at
least 10 yards from the penalty-mark and "must stand behind the
penalty-mark".
The phrase behind the penalty-mark means more than 12 yards from
the goal-line. Referees must ensure that all players are correctly
positioned "before" signaling for the penalty-kick to be taken.
8. MISCELLANEOUS CHANGES
LAW I (The Field of Play): There are two new decisions. The first
prohibits logos or publicity on, or cameras, microphones, etc.
Attached to, the field, nets, corner flags or goalposts.
The second decision permits an optional mark 11 yards from the
corner flag, perpendicular to the goal-line, and off the field.
The purpose of this optional mark is to assist the referee in
ensuring that the minimum distance of 10 yards from the ball is
observed by opponents during a corner-kick.
LAW II (The Ball): Balls used in FIFA and Confederation
competition matches must bear certain prescribed markings to
indicate that they meet minimal technical requirements. National
Association competitions may also impose this requirement. The
markings that have been identified are: FIFA Approved FIFA
Inspected International Matchball Standards
LAW V (The Referee): A new, lengthy decision (13) attempts to
limit the legal liability of game officials.
THE TECHNICAL AREA: The sentence Markings are not required to
define this area has been revised to read It is recommended that
Markings be used to define this area.
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