Conference trucks::football;1

    
    Up here in Scotland,we already have what is termed "an observer in the
    Stand"(which is generally an ex ref),who is supposed to report all the
    incidents not seen by the ref,to a higher authority,(Scottish League i
    think),but the standard of refereeing is still very poor,as they tend
    to  "miss" the controversial incidents much in the same way as the
    referees,and cover up their fellow colleagues ar$es. 
     -That is unless it's highlighted on Scotsport,then they say they did see
    it,and their report is already on it's way to the proper authority.
    But this tends only to happen when Rangers are the guilty party,or
    when Jim White/Gerry McNee/Jock Brown feel celtic have been wronged.-
               

    Wanna talk about disappointment with the referees? Consider this:
    
    In Portugal one official was taped accepting a bribe from a club
    official in a sting operation. He was so bold he accepted a cheque.
    
    JC

    At last we have "THE OFFICIAL JIMMY PARKER NOTE"
    
    The illustrious garage proprietor from Barnsley (?) has sent off
    about a hundred players this season already. Catch up with his
    exploits in the Guardian every Saturday.
    
    But my own contribution, FWIW... The ref at the West Ham Vs Sheff Utd
    game will be first against the wall come the glorious day !!

           <<< Note 143.3 by CURRNT::PAGED "Smells like a teabag" >>>
                    -< Jimmy Parker - man, mouse, or myth >-

>    But my own contribution, FWIW... The ref at the West Ham Vs Sheff Utd
>    game will be first against the wall come the glorious day !!

     The problem with the ref at that match was he was simply very
    un-proffessional.  He let United and they fans get to him and taint his
    judgement.  
    
    He sent one player off for aparently for shouting at a team mate, (he
    thought he himself was being shouted at).  A friend who is a West Ham
    supporter and was standing next to the incident said nobody had a clue
    why he was sent off.
    
    After several decisions against United and much abuse from the United 
    crowd later he awards United a free kick for which he receives a large
    round of mocking applause.  United score from the move resulting from
    the free kick.  
    
    In my opinion, wound up by this, with a few minutes left on the clock
    he awards a penalty for which he was condemmed by every report in the
    papers the next day.
    
    We need better standards than this.
    
    Dave
    
    PS
    
 >  At last we have "THE OFFICIAL JIMMY PARKER NOTE"
    
    Is this the same Jim Parker (ISOG::  ??) who writes in this conference,
    I think we should be told.
    
    

    Has anybody else noted that when a crowd really start getting to a ref,
    he will give virtually no injury time, and wants to get off the pitch
    as quickly as possible? 
    
    Paul

	Okay so I admit it I have refereed a few games in my time but all the 
decisions I have taken have been correct. No question about it, referees do 
NOT make mistakes. 

	As for West Ham supporters! What do they know about football? They 
live close enough to major BR stations to get out of London to go see a 
reasonable northern team yet they stay in London risking the possibility of 
having to talk to a cockney.

Jim Parker
 

In a recent scottish first divison match, I saw possibly one of the worst 
displays by a referre in years, and I've seen some bad ones this season.

Ten minutes into the game with the home team on all out attack and the
visitors penned back. The two home fowards play a one two at the edge of the
box, the center broke into the box, rounds the goalie and about 2 yards from 
goal line , between the posts, the keeper brings him down from behind.
Penalty you may shout, well I did anyway, but no the referee waves play on and
then proceeds to book the center forward for diving. I dont know about you but 
I've yet to see a player diliberatly dive when 6 feet from goal the ball at his
feet for a tap in ( there were no defenders with 10yards except the goalie he 
had just rounded). He was also on his feet and had the ball under control just
about to kick the ball into the net. 

Well as you may except the referee recieved a warm welcome from the home support.
Especially since the away team broke up the park and scored with their first 
attack.

Being a home team supporter the decision made me mad, but not half as much as 
his attempt to make ammends for his mistake, which either he recognised or 
by the barracking from the terrances made him do. The next attack the other
forward broke into the box, but this time marked by two defenders, one of 
who touched his shoulder with his hand. There was hardly enough contact to
swat a fly but the forward hit the turf like he was shot. That was all the 
ref needed and he gave a penalty. Which the home side scored.

What upset me was firstly making a very bad mistake and not giving a penalty 
and secondly making a matters worse by giving one that never was just becasue 
of crowd pressure or realising his own mistake. I also think the attacker in 
the second case should have been booked for fould play, even though I support
that team.

The rest of the game contained the usual bad standard of refereeing with wrong
decisions, letting bad fouls and off the ball incidents go.

But its a funny old game.


dave

Ps the home team finally won 5-1 

    re -1.
    
    Very emotive stuff, Mr Murray.
    
    I'd just like to say that your (surely not biased) description of the
    events differs dramatically from that of another Kilmarnock fan I know.
    
    He acknowledged that the penalty given was perhaps soft, but that
    in both cases the referee's angle of vision on the play may have let
    him see the true events clearer than he did as a spectator (and he was 
    located in a similar position in the ground to yourself).
    
    I guess it's all a matter of perspective.
    
    David.

    Re .6,	:-)
    
    
    	So what have you got to say to that Mr Rayner?
    
    
    		Steve

    RE. 6, .9
    I travel up north to Underhill or White Hart Lane....My passports
    not upto date so any further is not allowed....;-)

re  .8

David,
	you mention that the ref might not have had the best of views, so I'm
just wondering what type of view the linesman had. From his position out on the
wing he would have had a clear view of the incident.

This problem is a common event here in Ireland with the GAA. Their linemen are
a disgrace. They just prance up and down the line and hardly ever contribute to 
the game unlike their counterparts in rugby, who catch about everthing that the 
ref misses.


		Mick

The reason that linesmen in rugby get so involved in the game, is the sheer
amount of foul play that goes on in the game. An unwritten law seems to 
exist which is that anything you can get away with, is alright.
Even with three officials on duty at a rugby game, it is *extremely* difficult
to catch all the punches etc. that go on in rucks and scrums. Any rugby match
that I have attended (all in Limerick) its impossible to tell what any penalty
or sending off is for...they are usually 'off the ball' incidents. 
This, BTW, makes the use of ref's microphones during the recent world cup a
very good idea.

Soccer refs and linesmen have a much easier job.....why do they make such a 
@!$%%^�$ of it ?????

 - Kev 

    >Soccer refs and linesmen have a much easier job.....why do they make such a 
    >@!$%%^�$ of it ?????
    
    
    	Maybe because in Rugby the punishment for cheating and/or talking
    back is very high. 10 metre advance on free kicks would soon stop alot
    of the back-chat. I think yellow cards for diving is a step in the
    right direction. How about a sin bin as well? It would give the ref an
    option somewhere between the red and yellow cards...
    
    
    
    		Steve

    re.11
    
    Sorry - can't comment on that incident - I wasn't there.  However, in a
    melee of legs, etc, sometimes the linesman can't see either.  That's
    not to say that they shouldn't help the referee more, however.
    
    
    In an effort to give the referees some experience of running the line
    (in preparation for the World cup, Euro Championship, etc), in certain
    games in Scotland (usually the lower divisions) you will occasionally
    see a grade 1 referee running the line.    There is certainly a marked
    increase in the number of times this guy will flag for a foul than
    happens when a "normal" linesman is present.
    
    
    Maybe this is an exercise which should be extended.....
    
    

    Unless Scotland is drastically different from the English league, the
    only officials to officiate at pro league games are Class 1 refs.
    
    The amount of involvement a linesman has in a game is dependant on the
    refs instructions to them.  There are supposed to be 3 teams in every
    game..a home side, an away side and a team of officials.  Some refs
    treat linesmen like little boys, and tell them to flag for when a ball
    is out, or when someone is offside.  This is not good use of officials
    who have spent a minimum of ten years officiating at all levels.
    
    Its not an easy job, and the selection/promotion aspects of referees
    vary from one football district association to another. Until one
    standard method is used you will get variable quality coming through.
    Referees have to continually pass tests on the laws of the game (90%
    pass rates,min)
    eyesight tests and fitness tests, and probably out of say a 15,000
    crowd are one of 10-15 people attending who really know the laws.
    
    There was a topic in the old football notes file about the laws of the
    game..should another one be started ??
    
    For some reason, and you wont believe this, UEFA (and FIFA) reckonm
    that Swedish, German and English officials are the best.
    
    Paul
    
    PS  the ref can NEVER be wrong because the laws clearly state that 'if in
    the opinion of the referee...'  ..which is a nice 'opt-out' clause.
    
    pps yes Im a ref, and I have booked a player for deliberately diving to
    try to get a foul...if the FL refs did more of this we might get less
    of it at lower levels..and Mark hughes would collect a lot of
    disciplinary points in a season !!
    

    
    Reason could be why linesmen don't flag for incidents in the box,
    penalties etc; is that the ref tells them before the game that he'll
    make all the decisions for incidents in the box. This stops players
    running to the linesman if he flags for a penalty. I got this info
    first hand. Shouldn't stop them flagging for punching and all that
    goes with these incidents though. The ref will look to the linesman
    to confirm a handball on his blindside, but that's about it.
    
    Just a thought ....
    
    Colin 
    

    >>>                  <<< Note 143.15 by MIACT::RANKINE >>>
    >>>      -< players/fans are ALWAYS right, refs are always blind !! >-
    >>>
    >>> For some reason, and you wont believe this, UEFA (and FIFA) reckonm
    >>> that Swedish, German and English officials are the best.
    >>>
    >>> Paul
    
    Well, i find that unbeleivable, but having Lennart Johansson sitting as
    president of UEFA it's probably true. Our most famous international
    referee is Erik Fredriksson. He made a disgrace of him self when he
    didn't see the handball of Maradona in the USSR-Argentina in Italy last
    summer. He also practically gave the victory to Belgium against USSR in
    the quarter-final four years earlier in Mexico. He won't be a candidate
    for the Lenin-cross, beleive me.
    
    Another referee with lots of internationasl merits is Lars Karlsson. He
    was referee in the scond leg game between Marseille and Milan. Milan
    refused to play the last minutes, they have heard a whistle and thought
    the game was over and the stadium lights went out. He tried to get the
    Milan players back, and when they didn't, he simply blow the final
    whistle and reported the incident to UEFA. I think that Milan was banned
    from European competitions for a year. Karlsson got a lot of credit for
    that game, perhaps that's why Swedish referees have a good reputation.
    
    A first division referee in Sweden starts his career in lower
    divisions, and by beeing linesmen in division 2-4 games. Swedish
    domestic football is different from international football. There is
    more free-kicks and yellow cards, youre not allowed to tackle as you do 
    in the rest of Europe. I watch live English and Italian football on TV,
    and i see tackles that just pass by who here would give at least a Yellow 
    card.
    
    This season, the Swedish Football Assosiation planned som changing of
    the domestic rules. One of them was banning back-passes to the goalie.
    Unfortunatelly the FIFA reules-commity must approve, and they won't hold
    a meeting uintil May so were stuck with the old rules. That's sad,
    because Sweden could be a pilot-country for changes of rules that FIFA
    and UEFA have thought of for a long time. Most countries play
    Autumn-Spring so the change will perhaps come to the next season.
    
    As i mentioned in the old conference, i once visided Ullevi and saw two
    games with completly new rules. Short corners, free in-throw, offside
    only in the last 16 meters and no back-passing to galies. Some of the
    new rules where very good. I hope to see some of them in international
    football soon.
    
    Mats 
    

    Mats,
    
    There are moves afoot to ban pass backs to keepers , which should take
    effect start of next season.  Its supposed to prevent time wasting.
    
    Imagine that a keeper rolls the ball out to a defender, who cannot,
    according to the proposed changes, pass directly back to the keeper. if
    he passes to a colleague, who then passes to the keeper, I would think
    that that would use up more time than the present 'method'.
    
    Some of the recent changes haver been good, I must admit to being
    sceptical to the proposed ones.
    
    re -2
    
    The refs instruction to a linesman regarding a penalty is to hold his
    flag diagonally across his chest if its a penalty...he does not flag
    the incident, as you correctly state, to prevent the wrath of
    defenders. Usually the instructions to the linesmen are at the
    discretion of the referees..the last WC in Italy had a set of printed
    instructions to all officials.  This is OK providing they were
    universally accepted, and administered..eg if your interpretation of
    offide (ie a player interfering with play in an offside position) is
    different from mine, or the FIFA instruction, will you administer it in
    the normal enthusiasm/belief in what youre doing ??..ie do you like being
     told what to do ?? ..I hope this makes sense....I find it difficult to
    explain what I mean.  We all have different views of how football
    should be played, and officials are no different, they have views on
    how it should be officiated  eg Be strict and let them away with
    nothing, be lenient, use the book/cards or have a quiet word in their
    ears.  Al this leads (unfortunately) to inconsistencies..one mans red
    card is another mans smile and wave play on
    During Italia 90 I very rarely saw the officials smile or laugh, and they
     didnt appear to enjoy themselves at all....Im sure its because they
    had their personal interpretations taken away from them.
    
    I always thought that to qualify as a potential WC participant, the
    countries had to be playing to the proper FIFA rules..USA still play 4
    20minute quarters per game !!.
    
    Lars, if the tackle from behind is banned, or is a bookable offence,
    perhaps this explain why British clubs pick up a lot of yellow cards
    when playing in Europe ??
    
    Cheers
    paul  

    I have yet to hear a valid argument for keeping the 'team' of referees
    to 3 (ie one ref and two linesmen).  Why hasn't football looked
    seriously at the possibility of having a larger officiating team??
    
    And before people start using the argument about the integrity of a
    single referee and keeping control of a game, please think about all
    the other sports that have larger officiating teams - for example...
    
    Ice Hockey: Two (sometimes three) refs on the ice
    		A goal judge behind each goal
    		A time keeper
    
    Tennis:	An Umpire
    		Net cord judge
    		Numerous line judges
    		An optional electronic cyclops
    
    Basketball: Two (sometimes three) refs on court
    		A time keeper
    		
    
    American Football:	Too numerous to mention!!
    			(but probably eight on the field
    			a time keeper
    			etc
    			etc
    
    Why is it that the integrity of the game hasn't disappeared in any of
    these multiple referee sports??   
    
    (or perhaps you think it has!!)
    
    PJ

    See 38.128

    Surely one of the most important things for a ref to be is consistent. 
    I felt the ref for Sundays game between Chelsea and Everton was
    awful..booking a player for a very small thing, and then letting some
    fierce tackles go by without punishment.
    
    Paul

    As some of you know (note 9), I just passed my FIFA ref exam. (100 quest- 
    ions after a two day course).  So, I'm now a Level 8 (no snickers please),
    Ref who has a few problems:  1) I never played soccer in school.  2) I know
    the "Laws of the Game" in theory, but need practical advice.  [ No fair
    that some of you would say that being American is problem #3!]
    
    I am 44 years old, but was a sprinter in school (300 yd dash), and
    today run 50 min. 10K races.  I'm doing this to help out my town which
    desparately needed ref's due to the huge increase in our school aged 
    soccer program. I think soccer is THE best game in the world for youngsters.
    
    We use only one ref. and play modified FIFA rules but include offsides.
    Two parents act as linesmen so I can only expect some out-of-touch help on
    the sides. 
    
    So, since you all are the expert fans (& players, ref's, and possibly
    coaches), what do you like or dislike in a ref?  How would you rank in
    importance what a ref should do? (as an important reference point, I'm 
    starting out slowly with Girls 14 and under).  What preparation work 
    should I do? How much do you think I should say to the players before
    the match?  Should ref's speak with the players during the match? (Remember,
    I'll be Ref'g 12 and 14 year old girls. Would you answers be different
    for boys?
    
    I've been to two clinics to help me, and feel 85% confident about my
    1st assignment Saturday.  But your wisdom would be appreciated.  I am 
    nervous - not so much about the Laws, but about keeping things in control, 
    without interfering with the match.
    
    Thanks in advance for your replies.
    
    		Jeff-the-Ref!!
    

            
    re .22
    
>>    (as an important reference point, I'm  starting out slowly with Girls
>>    14 and under). 
    
    hmmmmmm........ is this still refereeing you're talking about ?
    
    Paul :-)
    

Jeff,

	As a sunday morning player, the most annoying aspect of a lot of
referees is inconsistency. Refs cannot see everything, no matter what level of 
football is being played, but when similar offences are dealt with differently
it starts to get the players upset (for want of a better word) and you could 
find yourself losing control of the game. At least if your consistent you'll 
gain respect from the players. However, don't be afraid to admit to making any
errors.

	Also when giving a decision be positive, and don't take any chat back.
Don't be afraid to give free kicks for swearing, and even timewasting etc.

	In one cup game I played in early in the season, the ref was terrible.
No consistency, not booking players who deserved it ( One player made 3 bad
tackles in the space of 2 minutes. They all deserved a booking, so he should
have been sent off after the 2nd, and he didn't even get a talking to by the
ref), and allowed players to swear and slag him off.
After the game, the ref legged it, and wasn't seen again by either side.

	The best refs I've played with have been those who have come into the
dressing room before the game ( don't do it with the girls or you could be
arrested :-) ) and laid down the law ( i.e. no swearing, no dissent etc. ). It
shows the players where they stand, and the games tend to be fairer and more
enjoyable to play in. I know you probably won't need to do this initially, but
it may be a good habit to get into.

	Finally, try to play advantage where possible. If there's a bad foul,
the same team keeps the ball, allow them to continue, and only when the ball's
gone dead, have a word with the offending player.

	Best of luck with your first game on saturday, and with your future as
a ref.

	Al

    Jeff,
    
    The best advice I got was :-
    
    Be yourself, and be decisive.
    
    
    If you naturally talk to people in ordinary life, then talk to the
    players...if you are a quiet studious type, then be a quiet
    ref....there is no point trying to be something you are not comfortable
    with.
    
    Once you have made your mind up thats it...even if you were wrong.....
    !!!!!
    
    Only you can be the judge of how much backchat/dissent/bad language you
    can allow.  when I was a player, there was one ref we occassionaly got
    who obviously had not played the game before, and reffed the game by
    the book...we used to hate getting him, and he was always pulling his
    book out.  
    
    The last note was suggesting that a bad tackle warrants a caution...as
    you know from passing the exam, there is no direct law which allows you
    to book a player for a bad foul....I tnd to use the catch-all
    "Ungentlemanly conduct"...ie  He tackled the opponent in an
    ungentlemanly manner.  What -1 was saying (correctly) is that if you let a
    bad tackle go, then that becomes the norm all other pl;ayers will try
    it on.  Do not however, have any qualms about booking a player for a
    bad tackle even if you had not booked a player for a similar tackle
    previously...providing you gave the 1st player a good talking to...
    
    You cannot say I cant book the 2nd offender cos I didnt book the 1st
    one, you must act according to how you see things....Im convinced this
    was why Pointon was sent off against ManUtd only minutes after being a
    victim of a bad tackle..it was obvious he was seeking revenge and did
    not attempt to play the ball, so he had to go.
    
    Sorry for the long note.  Im a ref in England, and enjoying it, going
    for Class 1 promotion this year. If I can help just give me a ring
    (7-841-3978).
    Hope your 1st game went well..where is the match report ??..
    Be yopurself, be decisive and ENJOY IT !!!!
    cheers
    Paul 

    Thanks for the feedback on "what constitutes a good ref."  I did NOT
    get my chance to ref last Sat.  Alas, the #6 team dropped out of the
    division, so my game was cancelled. (It was also raining like crazy on
    Sat. so it would have been cancelled anyway).  I must say, I was really
    "up" for the game, and the let down on Thursday when it was cancelled 
    was terrible. [ One never thinks about how the ref's must also be 
    preparing for "big" games].  My debute is now scheduled for May 2nd.
    
    As a consolation, they needed an official linesman for a Boys Under 16
    game on Sunday.  I got a chance to see an experienced ref and linesman
    work together. (They told me I did a very creditable job!).  It was,
    however, an extremely clean game - two direct kicks all game! So they
    said not to expect a similar experience in future BU16 matches.
    
    I had been warned to focus and disregard any fan comments.   Twice I
    heard them comment "he's calling offsides by the millimeter."  But I
    felt real good since I was concentrating and phyically parallel to the
    next to last defender with a clear view of the infraction. 
    
    Interestingly, one of the coaches also came over to complain about an
    issue with the ref.  I almost felt like saying "so speak with him; what
    the heck do you want me to do about it, I'm just the linesman!" But I
    listened and smiled.
    
    While performing my job, I noticed that the other, experienced
    linesman, appeared to rarely move up and down his half of the touch
    line. I, on the other hand, moved up and down often to keep up
    (parallel) with the second to last defender (for offsides).  Who was
    right?  
    
    Regards,
    
    		Jeff-the-ref (to be)

    
    In the Programme of the Rumbelows Cup Final, there is an advert for
    Referees, advertising for people to become one.
    
    Any who is interested let me know and I will put in the contact address
    etc...
    
    mac

    
    re . comments from the crowd.
    
    Ignore them. Remember, you know the rules; they, almost certainly, do
    not. Spectators also have the annoying habit of being incredibly biased
    so their "opinion" is not very reliable. After being injured in a game
    earlier this season, I had to perform the linesman's duties; I gave one
    blatant offside, which the players accepted immediately. One of the
    spectators, however, dedided that I was cheating since it was in favour
    of my team; as he was standing some thirty yards further down the
    touchline and could not possibly have seen whether it was offside or
    not, I decided to ignore him!
    
    In general, players appreciate firm refereeing and equal application of
    the rules to both sides. Of course, in any one game, one side are going
    to get more decisions in their favour than the other but most players
    are prepared to accept consistent refereeing. Some players will give
    you back chat and it's up to you how much you allow but I'd definately
    advise warnings before bookings for dissent; football's an emotional
    game and a booking for a first offence of disputing a decision can be a
    bit harsh.
    
    Good luck!
    
    jeff

    Re -1
    
    Agree with all the comments Jeff, except the last bit.  It depends how
    vocal or otherwise the players first offence is for dissent.  If it was
    realy bad, and you just warn him, then the other players know how far
    they can go and 'get away with it'.  Sometimes its also not what they
    say but the way that they say it..Ive seen a player get sent off for
    calling the ref a clown, because he said it so aggressively, that it
    was nasty.  
    Also remember that we take into consideration each offence
    as it occurs  eg a player who you have warned before committs a foul on
    an opponent. You blow up for a foul, the player complains, and then
    kicks the ball away in disgust ...In my book (and he would go in my
    book !!), thats a booking for persistent misconduct (for the foul), and
    a 2nd booking for dissent = OFF.  If you have decided that a player is
    booked, and he carries on misbehaving aftyer the event, then time is
    not a factor ie immediately after an offence, or 30 mins ..it makes no
    odds.
    
    I try to go into a game with an open mind...except for 2 rules (cast in
    concrete) of my own..
    1)  If a player assaults me, then its a matter for the police.
    2)  If a player calls me a cheat, he is off for abusive language.
    
    Despite what Danny Baker says, most refs are not bent or cheats, and
    the interesting thing with danny is he has yet to come up with a
    suitable alternative. Then again, constructive criticism requires some
    thought, dunnit ??
    
    good luck for 2nd May, Jeff
    
    Paul
    

With regard to whether you should talk to the girls or boys before the game,
remember that when you're dealing with children they too are usually still
learning the game (of football and of life!)...

So I think it would be a good idea to give them some idea of what you expect of
them, and what they can expect from you.

Good luck anyway!

Tarik

    Re -1
    
    Of all the advice youve been given Jeff, Tarik's is certainly the most
    sensible....wish Id thoght of it !!
    
    Cheers
    Paul

    Thanks for all your suggestions.  I really look forward to having some
    fun making a safe environment for others to enjoy the game.
    
    The good news is I got to blow my whistle!!
    Thursday they needed a ref for a rescheduled BU10 6v6.  When I left
    work the weather was fine, but at the pitch (I'm trying to use British) it 
    was raining.  I felt bad because the kids had been rained out twice before,
    so that they had yet to play a game this season.
    
    The field was soft (not slippery), so I deemed it safe to begin the
    match! (The parents weren't too happy, but the players were excited).
    Towards the end of the first half, the rain turned to snow and by the
    end, the players (& the ref) were sliding around, and none of the
    lines were visible (tough to see white lines under white snow).
    
    Sooooo, I abandoned the match at half time!  As luck would have it, the
    score was 1 to 1, and both coaches were very happy to get in 30 minutes
    of play.  And I didn't mind being a bit water logged. 
    
    So the journey continues...  I still haven't blown that final
    match-ending whistle.
    
    
    P.S.  On a related item, I was just asked to ref two Eastern
    Massachusetts Women's Soccer League games next month!  You see, in the
    States we lack adult refs.  Therefore even an inexperienced bloke (more
    British) like me is pressed into service.  My concern with that group,
    is that unlike the higher level kids games, this league doesn't have
    professional linesmen!  I don't think I can do the diagonal, and am a
    bit concerned about my ability to call offsides.
    
    So:  ANY ADVICE ON HOW TO CALL OFFSIDES (POSITIONING, TRICKS, ETC)
    WHEN YOU'RE DOING AN 11v11, full field, MATCH???
    
    
    	Thanks,
    
    		Jeff-the-almost-ref
    

	I was watching the snooker at the weekend (yes, snooker), when
	Steve Davis accidentally disturbed a ball with his sleeve, which
	neither the referee nor his opponent noticed.

	Like a gentleman, he admitted his error and sat down, knowing that
	he had left an opportuntity for his opponent to win the frame.

	The same day I watched Liverpool v Leeds. Almost every time the
	referee made a decision, there was an automatic appeal against
	it. (Strachan's facial expression is always a picture!)

	Wouldn't it be nice if, in a division 1 match just once in a while
	a player would go over to the referee and say...
	
	"Sorry, ref.. but it's not a penalty. I only slipped."


	Dave

    Re .33
    Hello Jeff,
     >> So:  ANY ADVICE ON HOW TO CALL OFFSIDES (POSITIONING, TRICKS, ETC)
     >> WHEN YOU'RE DOING AN 11v11, full field, MATCH???
    
    First the easy one - if I've got good, qualified linesmen, I tend to
    leave it to them - before the game tell them to give you a very clear 
    flag - my attention is sometimes caught by the 'whoosh' sound as the
    flag is whipped upwards,  no half-hearted waggles! Also, I run a 
    diagonal turning on the half-way line to make sure that I am always
    facing the linesman, with most of the width of the pitch between myself
    and him. But now to your more likely situation -
    
    If my linesmen are unqualified, I talk to them carefully before the match
    telling them (as Tarik says) what you expect of them. I always say that
    I want offside 'positioning' flagged across the whole pitch; I will
    then decide whether the player was interfering with play or not. I find
    that the hardest thing with unqualified linesmen (or none!) is that you
    yourself have to work a lot harder to keep up with play. You will need
    to anticipate which way the play is going, and get there quickly,
    particularly if attack turns to defence several times, suddenly. 
    
    The next thing to watch with unqualified linesmen is offside at the
    free kick - after ensuring that the kick location is correct, (and if
    they attack are not taking a quick free kick), I tell the kick taker to
    wait for my whistle, then I move into a line with the rearmost
    defender, so that I am not dependent on the linesmen for making this
    offside decision.
    
    That's about it I guess, apart from your own personal ways of doing
    things e.g. I always try to learn the names of my linesmen, and I am
    well aware that a linesman drafted in (e.g. one of the substitues) may
    well be a little bit biased ;-). You may want to think about what to do 
    when the ball is fairly, sunk into the back of the net, and the
    linesman raises his/her flag, and the defenders start saying but it was 
    offside ...
    
    Very best of luck in your endeavours. Let us know how it goes.
    Cheers
    DaveT                                               

    RE.35
    
    Thanks for the advice.  However, two local ref's said that they did NOT
    want me (the linesman at the time) to signal the Offside position, but
    rather to signal only if they were also seeking to gain an advantage
    (i.e. offsides). 
    
    This has got to be THE hardest rule to enforce - especially when you're
    alone!  Any other suggestions out there?
    
    	Regards,
    			Jeff
    
    
    P.S.  Sure does help me become a more tolerent fan when I've had to
    "walk a mile" in the ref's shoes!!

    Hi Jeff,
    >> rather to signal only if they were also seeking to gain an advantage
    >>   (i.e. offsides).
    ---
    These things aren't cast in stone, you can work them out as you feel
    most comfortable. I personally don't want to place the burden of
    deciding whether they were 'gaining an advantage' on the linesman. I
    want to keep control of that myself. But, you are right that I wouldn't
    want them flagging simply because the player was in an offside position
    - all the other things have to be there as well - ball passed forward
    by the attacking side, etc. Also, it's never easy to decide when a
    player is 'not interfering with play'. I think it was Shankly that said
    "if he's not interfering with play, then he shouldn't be on the bl***y
    pitch"!  I also try to make sure that I give the lino a good signal if
    I am allowing play to carry on after he has flagged offside. This
    happens quite a lot if you are playing the advantage, after an offside
    infringement. He needs to know this, so he can take his flag down.      
    
    Cheers,
    DaveT 
                                                                      

    I think Linesmen should have more of a say in the game.  There seems to
    be lack of communication on the parts of the three officials.  
    
    Their is also too much pressure on the refs.  
    
    An example being thefirst Newcastle player to be sent off (V Derby) was 
    judged to have stopped a goal line clearance.  My mate who supports 
    Newcastle said it would have gone across the face of the goal.
    
    It all boils down to what the ref sees.  Remember they don't have TV
    camera's.  
    
    I've been referee a few times and it's hard work.
    
    
    Cheers
    Gaz

    It's done!!  I have one foot firmly placed in the referee waters! (I
    now feel comfortable in calling myself a NEW ref. )  I ref'd a GU10, did 
    Lines for a BU16, and ref'd an Eastern Massachusetts Women's Soccer League 
    game (ages 20 to 40), over the weekend.
    
    What an experience.  The kids match was easy. Fair play, few whistles, NICE
    COACHES (one even called his kid to the sidelines when I call him for
    pushing from behind and explained why the call was made and how to
    avoid doing it again!).
    
    Doing lines duty was hard (the rain the night before erased almost all
    the lines).  But I enjoyed myself, and was complimented by the ref for
    "signaling by the book" (FIFA).  It's amazing what can be communicated 
    without saying a word.
    
    The Women's game was exciting.  It was an Irish-American team against
    an American team.  (The Irish women were mostly born in Ireland - they
    still had heavy accents).  Before the game we spoke and it was a very
    relaxed atmosphere.  No one gave a hoot about my insistance on NO
    jewelry.  The Irish team "forgot" their picture passes, but the other
    team waived the right to call for a forfeit. (more on this later)
    They seemed to appreciate that fact that I explained why some jewelry
    was not allowed (e.g. ear studs had killed a woman last year when the
    ball hit her ear and forced the back of the stud through an artery).
    (They also were amused at calling me Jeff-the-ref).
    
    For two 45 min. halves, there were bodies all over the place.  It was
    fair, but not having excellent skills, they made up for it with hussle.
    I had to verbally warn one gal several times about "dancing" around in 
    front of the goalie when she had the ball.  And the Irish team had a man
    coach who kept yelling for sub's when he wasn't allowed to have them.
    (Told him the league rules three times but he seemed to like to yell).
    
    The second half got rough as the players were tired and started to
    foul.  I blew a few more whistles, including a penalty kick for the
    Irish team (Handling the ball).  But in gen'l I enjoyed myself.  It was,
    however, VERY INTENSE.  Unlike the players, and the fans, there isn't a
    single split second that I can let my mind wonder.  I had to watch the
    play, think about what could happen next, etc. (With no "official"
    linesmen, I also had to be looking ahead for off-sides all the time).
    
    Despite the banging, and with the exception of my letting the Irish
    team "get away" with a couple of sloppy throw-ins at midfield, there
    were absolutely no complaints from the players.  (Oh yes, the Irish
    coach was mad that one of his players was called a "B*tch" after a
    collision - I didn't hear it, but the other team after the game mentioned 
    a bit of swearing by the other side as well.  (Good thing it was windy, 
    so the ref didn't hear!)
    
    One gal hurt her shin so I called the league rep. to file an injury
    report.  The rep told me more about the Irish coach.  It seems that
    last year he MADE UP the roster!  Yes, he supplied phony names and
    addresses in order to get a team together in time to register.  None of
    the pictures or names matched.  If I had known this I might have
    played the game, but have them forfeit.  Gee, an honest mistake is OK,
    but was he cheating again?  All the women had good sportspersonship,
    but the coach was borderline.
    
    In any event, the American team passed better, had two good goals, and
    three somewhat luck ones to win 5 to 0.  I survived my first real game.
    Now, before I can consider myself "tested", I'll need to be threatened
    by some players, coaches, &/or fans.  I'll also have to give out some
    yellow cards, and that first all-important red one. [ A recent league
    BU19 game had 7 yellow a 2 reds given out, and one team, only 2 games
    into the season, is already getting points deducted from its standing
    due to the number of cards they've accumulated.]
    
    Sorry if this is boring.  But us yanks are just getting into football. 
    The number of kids joining far exceeds the number of refs available. 
    If I can, I hope my chronicles, notes, and tongue-in-cheek, humor will
    encourage other adults to follow into the referee fraternity.
    
    All your suggestions and encouragement has been most helpful. Thanks.
    
    		Jeff-the-(new)-ref
    
    
    P.S.  Amazing as it seems, I may get my first International Match next
    month!  It seems that some DECies are coming down from Canada in June
    to go to the Games in Foxboro.  There's to be some "friendly" pick-up
    game(s) before/after.  I was asked if I'd be interested in refereeing.  
    I may be crazy, but why not!!

    
    Jeff, congratulations to becoming a referee!! I just got my 
    referee-license, so i know what you have been threw. I have played 
    football since i was eight years old (once in a time on top-level) and
    i have been sent off many times. Now i experience the other side sid of 
    it, and i have to say that it's not that easy that i thought it would be.
    
    You have to be everyehere on the field at the same time, and you have
    22 other ref's on the field who has their own opinion. Not to mention
    the coaches who never misses a chance to tell you what the right call
    should have been.
    
    After beeing a referee in 10 games, there is a few thing i concidere
    that is most important.
    
    1. Set the standard at once. All players test the ref so see how far he
       can go, so blow the whistle on time too many than just letting a
       tackle pass.
    
    2. Move around. Try to run as much as you can. Try to be at least 5
       meters from the ball all the time. Whe you whisle for an off-side and
       the players see that you stand in ther line to see it, their 
       acceptance level is higher. 
    
    3. Be concequent. If you decide to let sloppy inthrows pass, do that
       the whole game. But be careful to let hard tackles pass, especially
       in the beginning of the game. They have a tendence to get worse 
       during the game.
    
    4. Dont hear everying that's beeing said on the field. Sometimnes it's
       more useful to just close your ears than start to argue with a
       player.
    
    I had my first send-off last night. A forward got loose from his
    defender, and the goalie came out outide the box and took the ball with
    his hands. This new FIFA rule is hard, and the goalie was furious. But
    he knew he had made the offence so after the game he gave me right. 
    Do you have this rule in the US as well? Good luck in your future
    games!!!
    
    Mats

    re .40
    
    Mats,
    
    	Thanks for your response. Yes, I overlooked the throw-ins
    consistantly because I was more concerned with the rest of play.  I
    gave a bit of instruction on throw-ins as the game went on.  And the
    other team quickly got the idea that I wasn't going to "punish" the
    Irish team for sloppy throws, and they accepted it and "played on."
    
    	Yes, we yanks have the new FIFA rules!  We really try to follow all
    the "True" Football rules.  We do, as I'm sure you do, modify the rules
    for youngsters.  I'm not sure I'd have given a red card to the goalie,
    but if it was a very clear break-away, then you were absolutely
    correct.  (In a real young game, perhaps a yellow for unsportsman like 
    play?).
    
        Thanks for the tip on the whistle.  I have tried to keep it to a
    minimum.  However, I find that shouting out the team's color (for throw-
    ins), and saying direct, or indirect, helps the match move along faster.
    When I don't say anything and just point, there seems to be confusion
    (at least with the younger players I ref).
    	
    		Jeff

>    However, I find that shouting out the team's color (for throw-
>    ins), and saying direct, or indirect, helps the match move along faster.
>    When I don't say anything and just point, there seems to be confusion
>    (at least with the younger players I ref).
    	
 
    Jeff, I wish more refs would do this. Some give hand signals, and not
    all players know these. Also, you can be certain that a lot of
    players don't know all the rules, such as when is a kick direct or
    indirect, etc. Once I scored a goal on a direct kick, but the ref made
    the hand signal that it was indirect, without saying anything. Not to
    say that I would have scored anyway, but...
    
    I think a lot of refs don't verbalize anything because of the
    international nature of the game. Supposedly, hand signals are
    universal, but at least here in the states, I don't think most players
    know them. I've heard that for internationals, the referee must either 
    speak both languages of the participating countries, or neither, never 
    just one country's language.  
    
    Tom

    Refs hand signals are 'standard' throughought the football playing
    world, and are included in the laws of the game book...how many players
    actually read the laws of the game book ???.
    
    A Football league ref told me that a English Div 1 keeper asked him why
    he had his arm up for a free kick (which signals an indirect free
    kick).....this amazes me, especially when you consider that these are
    professional players, who cannot bother to read the laws of their
    profession. These are also the players who will make comments on TV and
    radio, when its obvious that they do not know the laws...eg Denis Law
    on R5 is a hoot, and discredit the ref/linesmen when it was obvious
    that the officials were right.
    
    When dealing with kids, I agree, help them as muchg as you can..they
    are potentially the stars of the future, and by telling them what your
    decision is, does help.  As for the older kids (18+), they should know
    better.
    
    Ive offered a few teams that I have reffed, a quick brush up on the
    laws of the game, new laws, FIFA instructions etc, and a couple have
    accepted..its nice to hear them admit how much they learned/ how little
    they knew of the laws.  The one which always causes amazement from
    players is the 4 cautionable offences.
    
    Paul

    Intro:  This is a continuation of an ongoing saga of how a neophyte,
    old, Yank, is learning how to referee.  Having passed my FIFA exam, and
    ref'd a bunch of youngster games, I had yet to be "Tested" with older
    boys and a loud group of spectators.  Sunday was my first such test.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    It's Official!!  I have finally had my first "test."  I ref'd a BU16
    Div I game in the rain Sunday.  I had two official linemen, gave out my
    first card, and even had a parent yelling at me.  What an experience.
    
    It's hard to explain.  I was so worried about the game beforehand. 
    Could I control older kids?  Could I run the diagnal and use my linemen
    well?  Could I handle yelling from the sidelines?  Could I even be in
    the right spot to call penalties?
    
    I worried for days.  I reread the "Laws of the Game" knowing that some
    of the spectators would be as knowledgeable as I am about the rules.  I
    increased my jogging routine to get into shape.  But mostly, I worried.
    
    Come the big day, and it's raining.  So much for reading any notes I
    put down (running ink on the card).  But I did have a list of things
    for my linemen to consider and we worked very well together.  I was
    most pleased that I was able to remember to frequently look their way.
    
    The first half saw a lot of sloppy sliding tackles.  I called a penalty
    kick on one such tackle, and verbally warned several boys during that
    first 40 min.  At halftime I went to each team and told them that even
    though they might have a "proper" tackle during the second half, if
    they continued to slide and make contact (i.e. wipe out the opponent),
    that I would consider that unsportmanlike conduct.  I felt that they
    must adjust their play to consider the slippery ground.
    
    It seemed to work (or were they just wet and tired), as the second half
    was very cleanly played.  I called a trip just outside the penalty
    area, but I was so close to the play that I whistled it right away and
    a split second later the attacking team scored.  I felt bad about not 
    being in a position to see the advantage coming, but a whistle is a 
    whistle so it was a direct kick - no goal (that team still won the match).
    
    My first ever card (a yellow), came early in the second half.  A player, not
    one of the 4 or 5 that I had verbally warned earlier, came rushing in and 
    slid into another player already down on the ground.  Thankfully no one
    was seriously hurt, but the father of the hit kid did go a bit nuts.
    I calmed the father down, and gave the other boy (coach's son -
    figures) a yellow card.  Everything was under control from then on.
    
    As I was leaving I spoke with the coach.  He felt that the call was
    "close" (since the other boy was sliding towards his son as well), but
    I told him that making close calls is why they pay me the big bucks! 
    He laughted and we shook hands.  He understood and left smiling.
    
    Summary:
    
    	I felt good because:
    		1)  No one was hurt on a rainy day due my letting things
    			get out of control.
    
    		2)  My linesmen said that I looked at them enough to make
    			them feel like they were a real part of the game.
    			And we communicated very well.
    
    		3)  I hustled, hustled, hustled!  I was almost always right
    			on top of the play, including break aways.
    			(Even got a compliment on that).  I really think 
    			that even if you're second guessed by the sidelines,
    			they seemed to calm down when they see that you are
    			right there on top of the play doing your best.
    	
    	I did not feel good because:
    
    		1)  I blew the whistle too quickly on one play where
    			advantage might have been the better call.
    
    		2)  You rarely get a "nice job ref" from the coaches,
    			players, or fans.  (Not an ego thing, just an
    			acknowledgement that you too are working hard to
    			do your best, and that you are doing this so that
    			the kids can play the game - certainly not for 
    			the money!)  A nice part of having "offical" 
    			linesmen is that you have someone to speak with
    			and get independant feedback from.  When my 
    			peers who've done BU16 before say "nice game,"
    			then I can go home with some satisfaction.
    
    	Well I can't say I feel like I'm a good ref now and I know that I
    can do a lot better.  But the first of many trials is over.  I encourage 
    others to try the referee route.  But it is definitely not for everyone. 
    I hope that these chronicals help us all better appreciate the men in
    black.  Best regards,
    
    			Jeff-the-ref
    
    ADDENDUM:
    		Fresh from my debute with BU16, I have decided to take the
    ultimate test....  This coming Friday I will attempt to referee an
    International Match!  That's right, The Digital Canada XI F.A. will be
    in town, and will play a Digital U.S.A. Club. (see details elsewhere in
    this conference).
    

    Any ref's out there want to share their experiences with the new
    pass-back law?  Here is Massachusetts, USA most of the youth leagues
    are waiting for the Spring season to implement it. (For those not
    familiar with our system, the Fall Season is for "fun", no league
    standings are kept, and, because there is less competition with other
    sports, we usually have more kids playing.  The Spring is for the
    dedicated, hard driving, higher level players.)
    
    I know that passing back will not dramatically impact my games.  BUT,
    are you seeing any "Trickery?"
    
    			Jeff
    
    P.S.  As an aside, I was told that after a 10th grade game between two
    schools, a player went up to the ref and said "I was kicked in the
    chest, why didn't you call it" (at least that's what he claims to have
    said!).  The ref didn't say a word, and just gave the kid a red card!!
    When the coach came over to ask what had happened.... you guessed it,
    out came the red card again!!  Have any of you given an after the game
    card? I know that I might give a yellow for persistance after a verbal
    warning to "get lost", but a red would be reserved for swearing, and/or 
    physical attack!
    
    P.P.S.  Why not add another -- I'm now ref'ing in 5 (five!!) different
    leagues.  Each league, of course, has slightly different rules.  Do you
    see the same thing in Europe? (e.g. When you can sub, offsides may not
    be called, etc.)  In fact one odd rule which is different between
    leagues is where the teams and spectators must sit.  Do you prefer the
    both teams on one side; fans on the other rule.  Or do you like the teams
    and their respective fans, on opposite sides?

    Hi Jeff!!
    
    Here in Sweden we play a spring-fall season, so it will end in
    mid-October. We only have the new back-pass rull in the two highest
    division, it will be implemented next year in all the leagues.
    
    We have up to nine divisions of senior football. As a first year ref,
    im allowed to ref games in div. 7-9, ladies div. 4-5, juniors and kids
    born 77, 78 and 79. The rules are the same in all leagues. In these low
    leagues, there is no linesmen. I have to keep track of everything my
    self, including the throw-ins. The substitution is simular to hockey,
    basket and handball. You can substitute how many times you want in a
    game.
    
    I enjoy beeing a referee very much. I have played football for over 20
    years, and i think that's my most advantage. For me it's very easy to
    "read" the game and judging things like off-side and fouls. I can
    understand a players fury over a dubious off-side call, and i know the
    importants of beeing consistent in judging. and the fact that i am
    having fun makes me relaxed and not nervous. Like most things in life,
    if you have confidense in doing a thing, the better you feel about it.
    
    You mentioned that the new back-pass rule won't affect you. For me it's
    different. The play around the penalty-box will be more intense witch
    will require that the ref must "be where the ball is" much more. i
    think that much more running is required next season. One trickery i
    heard of was in Germany. When a defender got the ball unattacked, he
    fell down on his knees and "kneed" the ball to the goalie. The rule
    states that back-pass with a foot is banned. I also heard that
    UEFA/FIFA was to clarify the rule.
    
    After i have blown the final whistle, i can't issue any cards, yellow
    or red. But i have the obligation to report everything that happens to
    the football-federation. I can give a red card before the game. For
    example; During warm up, i hear a player saying "Oh no, is it you
    again, you M****rf****ng s*n of a b**ch! I issue a red card for the
    player, the team can start with eleven players on the field but wit one
    substituter less. From the time i get to the arena to the time i leave
    it, i must report everything odd that occurs or/and happens.
    
    The teams must be on opposite sides, and all the substitutions must be
    made at the center line. As for the fans, i havn't had any problems
    with that. The largest crowd i had was only a couple of hundred, and
    they where very quiet.
    
    The absolutely most difficult rule to judge is off-side. Perhaps i
    stand in the off-side line one time out of ten. That is because i must
    always try to be where the ball is. When a midfielder kicks a long ball
    up to a forward, it's up to my split-vision and "feeling" for the game
    to judge. I know that i never will be a 100% correct in my off-side
    calls in a game. But it's better to be consistent and blow off-side a
    couple times too much, than get a brutal game because im not where the
    ball is.
    
    The most postive words i have got was from a coach of the loosing(!)
    team; Good job ref, i hardly noticed you where on the pitch! And thats
    like an old Swedish saying; Good health is silent.
    
    Mats
    
    PS. How many minutes do you wait for a team before you call it a Walk
        Over?
    
        With side will first choose side of the coin you toss before the
        game, Home-side or away?
    
        Do you make a single or a double whistle for a free kick? (Double 
        whistle = the free-kick can't be taken until you blown a second
        time) 

Re:.46

Mats,

	Thank you for sharing your experiences.  I am a Referee Level "8"
(There are 9 levels, "1" being world cup quality).  To get to be a level 7 I
must pass the written exam with an 85 or better (I got 95 when I took it to 
be a level 8, so it's no big deal), and you must ref 100 matches - one of which 
I think has to be graded by an instructor who comes to watch you.  The levels
below 7 have running requirements (long distance, short sprints and shuttle
runs, which, even at my age, I think I can pass.) as well as many
    more "gradings" of your actual ref'ing performances.  I have no desire
    to "advance" to lower levels.

	I just started (last Spring was my first season).  Here in the States
there are few adults who've grown up playing the game.  I never played (except
for a brief couple of months on a DEC 6 v 6 team.).  Therefore, when our town's
league exploded with kids, there was a need for ref's -- soooooooo, being a
fast runner in school, I volunteered.  I attended a ten hour course, took the
exam, and voila - a 44 year old - never played for a team - ref!

	I can ref most any level game in our area.  My 1st season I did a Boys 
under 16 Division 1 game (i.e. best kids in one town vs best in another).  I do
not do High School games (Different laws - e.g. two ref's; and they probably
require a lower ref level rating).  But I did ref a couple of Eastern
Massachusetts Women's Soccer League games.  I guess there isn't too much
focus placed on your level until college and professional matches.  If you
    think you can do it, and they ask you to ref, its OK.  Getting invited
    back is the bottom line measure of you ability!

	In the Spring, our competitive season, all Division 1 teams, and any
boys or girls teams 16 years or older have photo ID's for the players.  The
Division 1 games for 16 and older also have hired linesmen (I've done it quite a
few times - it's a great way to watch a more experienced ref and learn).  I
agree that offsides is a very difficult thing to judge.  Especially since the
call is AT THE TIME THE BALL IS KICKED.  Often the ball is kicked, the player
is even, and then he sprints way ahead of the defender so that the spectators
only see a ball and attacker flying down field and begin yelling "offsides."

	I don't get many "complements" either.  Although one coach said "I hope
you're scheduled for the rest of my games." (And he had lost!)  At half time I
do go over to each team and ask if they have any questions or issues.  I let
them ask why I made certain calls, and I explain.  I also listen to complaints
about things I didn't see and promise to watch for them in the second half.  It
has the potential to get out of control, but I let them know before the game
begins that I'll give them the chance to talk to me at halftime and that
during the game I'm not available for discussions.

	As far as walkovers, each league is different!!  Generally it's from 5
minutes to 15 minutes.  Some leagues even allow a shorter game to be played
either for fun or for the standings.  I've had only one walk over.  We had some
of the women change teams and played a "friendly."

	Coin toss is up to the ref.  I don't remember it being in any rule book
in any of the leagues.  I usually treat the visitors as guests.  So after I
have the captains introduce themselves to each other, I ask one of the visiting
players to call it IN THE AIR.  (As a nice touch, I use an english coin which I
show them and point out which side is heads)  I know one ref who forgot his
coin and did a "I'm thinking of a number,... is it one or two?"!!

	Tell me more about single or double whistles.  Again I've never read
anything about that.  I usually let the players kick the ball whenever they
want to (i.e. once it's motionless at the point of the free kick).  The only
exceptions are a) If they've asked for 10 yards, then I say "Wait for my
whistle" or "On my whistle." or b) If I'm not ready or my linesman isn't ready
in the case of a corner kick.

	I find that the players don't do real well on direct vs indirect.  I
call out the infraction, and then raise or don't raise my hand for the indirect
vs direct.  The other hand points in the direction of the kick.  They often ask
"Is it a direct?".  And I also know that when I am a linesman and use the 
    "official" linesmen signals with my flag, NO ONE, sometimes not even the 
    ref, knows what I'm doing!  We have a long way to go in the States.

	Have a good season.  Regards,
					Jeff

P.S.  We had a men's soccer club from Canada come down last spring and I ref'd 
a game between them and a pick-up DEC USA team.  Does that qualify as my first
International Match?!
    

    
    jeff,
    
    things in the States may be different to over here, but I must admit I
    cringed a bit when I read that you encourage questions at half time. 
    Any advice Ive had (there are no official guidelines as such) tends to
    be to avoid giving players the opportunity of questioning your
    decisions...this could lead to a disagreement which if it got heated,
    you may decide to use a card.  If this is a result of you tempting
    questions, then in a way you are guilty of creating the situation.  Ive
    sometimes gone over and explained why I gave a particular decision, but
    I wont encourage questions/comments as it could lead to something.  We
    are instructed that if there are 3 qualified officials doing a game, at
    the end of the game the officials should shake hands with each other
    but not comment on each others performance.  Picture this..end of a
    hard game and everyone is trooping of the park.  Linesman runs up to
    the ref, shakes his hand and says "well done ref, you had a good game",
    a player close to this hears and says "Bollocks, I thought he was
    shit".  The ref now has to take disciplinary action on a situation
    which was started/incited by the linesman.
    
    In the UK ther are 3 levels of ref from 3 to 1.  It is reckoned that
    the minimum time from starting to reaching Football League status is 10
    years.  You can apply for promotion 1 per year where the regulations
    for promotion vary from regional football authority to another.  Just
    my luck to find out that my authority is one of the toughest !!. At
    grade 3 you can ref any league that they accept grade 3, this varies
    from local league to local league. As grade 3 you can line in a league
    which only lets grades 1 and 2 to ref.  Most of these leagues wont let
    you in the middle unless you have run the line for them for 1 to 2
    seasons.  this is the only way that you can progress up the ladder to
    Football League..each year they will call up refs and linesmen from the
    contributory leagues eg GM Vauxhall Conference, who in turn will call
    up officials from their contributory leagues etc.  If you want to
    progress you have to line at least 2 games a month in as high a league
    as you can, while reffing x number of games (depends on local rules)
    per season.  As/when you get promoted you try to ref and line in higher
    league, providing they have 'called you up'.  It can be tough to get
    there and in some ways it doesnt guarantee that the best refs make
    it..some very good refs that I know dont like lining, and wont go much
    higher than where they are...some average ones are going through the
    right motions and could end up higher. 
    
    keep smiling and keep enjoying
    Paul

    I'd like to ask my fellow "Men & Women in Black" if anyone has seen any
    really good Referee Training Films?  I've seen some ads for some short
    20 minute VHS tapes (a bit expensive too), but they don't come
    recommended by someone who's seen them.
    
    Clearly its one thing to read the book.  It's another to distinguish a
    fair from an unfair "hit."  Of course everything's "In the opinion of
    the referee...."  However, I think that there's going to be more and
    more need for refs in the states.  If I could show some good instructional
    films, I might get more folks to try out!!  It would certainly have
    helped me in my first couple of dozen matches to have seen a film. 
    (Especially with my limited experience playing the game).
    
    Any thoughts?  Regards,
    				Jeff
    
    P.S.  Many thanks to those of you who've shared your ref experiences in
    this note.  Learning about different practices and ideas from around
    the world is just what makes notes so exciting!
    
    P.P.S.  Ref: 143.48  Thanks for the feedback.  I agree that asking for
    input is potentially hot.  However, I've been treated quite well by the
    coaches, who sometimes don't know all that much about the game. 
    They seem to appreciate that I'd take the time to explain a call
    that they didn't understand.  Perhaps if I ref any higher leagues, my
    halftime "Any questions..." strategy should be discarded! 
    
    I also like the idea of giving the players a quiet time to calmly say 
    something to me.  I often get "Could you watch # XX, (s)he's been 
    pushing me."  In this case, they've gotten out some frustration, 
    I've gotten some possibly good info to watch for in the second half, 
    and the player feels that (s)he can constructively communicate with me 
    without being seen as a whinner or trouble maker.  
    
    I KNOW I must be coming across as naive!!  It's just that kids here are
    still pretty polite in soccer.  The coaches don't, or don't know how to,
    coach "dirty."  (Unlike American football where they're pretty good at 
    teaching all the tricks.)  I even try to make conversation with the
    parents on the sidelines before the game to help promote a friendly 
    situation.  If I can get a laugh or two from them or the kids, then I
    feel the stage is set for a more enjoyable match.  (Of course, the older
    kids, Division 1, Spring season is VERY serious.  I do NOT venture too
    far away from my serious poker face in those situations)

    Jeff,
    
    I think your fortunate to be involved in the upsurge of interest of
    soccer in the States, it must be exciting.  Over here everyone involved
    at every level is an 'expert'.....and therefore you always get opinions
    comments, advice and stick.  A common problem amongst some refs in my
    RA, is not dealing with the laws, the players or the game, but trying
    to control coaches, managers and spectators...ie those not directly
    under your juristiction.  You can as a ref ask a coach or manager to
    leave the direct vicinity of the field, but you cant send him off.  You
    merely report him to the local FA, who will then take action.  If a
    coach or manager persists in misbehaviour, or a player refuses to give
    you his name or refuses to leave the field, you abandon the game and
    report the incidents to the appropriate authorities.  In the States it
    sounds like you dont have these problems, and I hope you never do, so
    it looks like you can concentrate on your game.
    
    Ill have a scout around for any teaching/coaching videos and see if I
    can copy one and get it sent to you.
    Cheers
    paul  

    re .50
    
    Yes we are indeed lucky.  The coaches and parents are new to the sport
    for the most part so there isn't as much second guessing.  And I can
    give a coach a red card in our leagues.  Of course, being a ref, I
    myself have started to second guess!  Let me share a recent experience.
    
    My son's team (BU14) was playing a much tougher team (Many club
    players).  The other team was very aggressive, and by halfway through
    the second half, my son's team had no subs (three injured players on
    the sidelines, and 4 or 5 hurtung ones on the field.  There had been
    at least a dozen whistles to stop for injuries to Acton players (NONE for 
    the other team).  Not a single penalty had been called during the game!  
    At one point, my son, the sweeper, had cleanly gotten to a lead pass by
    the attacking team and was about to turn the ball to the sideline.  The
    attacker simply ran up from behind him and knocked him over full force.
    David did three flips and skidded out of bounds.  NO CALL!!  I couldn't
    believe it.  The coaches were yelling abusive words to the ref.  But
    true to my "training" all I could muster was yelling "Shame, shame,
    shame" as loud as I could!!
    
    Right after that, a ball went by David and a second later the same kid
    kicked him in the leg so hard that he went right down crying in great pain.
    This was the last straw.  We went out to him and I told him his playing that
    day was over.  As I helped him off the field, our team's coaches told
    the ref that THEY were abandoning the game!  They didn't argue about
    his lack of control on the field.  They simply felt that SOCCER SHOULD
    NOT BE ABOUT GETTING HURT.  So they pulled the team.  I certainly have
    to respect their attitude.  I can't wait to see their report to the
    referee coordinator!  [As an aside:  Over 50% of my self "rating" of a
    match is whether there were any avoidable injuries in the game.  Do you 
    feel the same way?  Perhaps my fellow refs can write in with their "self 
    rating" systems.?]
    
    I ALWAYS talk to the players, especially when they are way ahead and
    still being dangerously aggressive.  I also am willing to give a yellow
    card after a verbal warning if I feel a player is purposely getting
    rough -- especially in the fall season which I have in earlier notes
    described as a fun league.  I can't wait to find out about the ref in
    my son's game.  He either was "green" and didn't know better, OR over 
    qualified (i.e. played soccer in Europe all his life) and feels that 
    rough and tumble is the name of the game.  
    
    So you see -- we also have our problems, though perhaps different then
    yours!  Regards,
    				Jeff
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    How about some discussion on "rating" systems for refs?
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    re: 47
    
    You stated that "when someone asks for 10 yards". 
    
    I coach a team in the National Challenge Cup League, Massachusetts
    Premier kids league. Our kids get an automatic yellow card for
    encroachment. They just CANNOT be less than 10 yards from the direct
    kicks.
    
    Also, our experience with the backpass rule is that basically the refs
    don't understand it. We've had three games so far, one ref doesn't want
    to use it and won't - what a jerk, not following the league rules (he
    doesn't use linesmen and stay with 10 yards of the center circle the
    entire game) and the other gave indirect kicks for any pass back to the
    keeper, even when he kicked it. 
    
    I don't think they trained the refs on how to implement the rules. Its
    really too bad, because it leaves ill feelings between the coaches and
    parents and the ref.
    
    Don

    Don,

    	Yes, they really haven't trained the refs!!  That's why 3 of the
    four leagues I ref have deferred implementing the law until the spring. 
    The fourth league is using it but only for 11 v 11 (not 6 v 6).  They
    had a Ref night and had Mass. Ref. Assoc. come and explain the law. 
    But even with training it is NOT easy.  The hardest piece is in the
    "trickery" provisions.

        Where do you coach? How old are the kids?  You should get a "ref 
    evaluation card" as a coach.  After a game, fill it out and send it in!  
    I run twice a week just so I wont have to stay at the middle -- and this 
    Saturday I did three games.  There is NO excuse for not working hard.  In 
    fact, I know that I'm not the greatest ref.  But because I run hard and am 
    in position for the "tough" plays, the coaches tend to stay off my back.  
    When a coach argues with me I can say "Sorry, I may have missed that; but I
    was right on top of the play." (S)he settles right down.  You can't say
    that if you're not giving it 110%.

        Regarding the 10 yards.  Often the attacking team wants the element
    of surprise.  Therefore they want to "quick kick" the ball.  Although I
    agree that no defender should "park" themselves in front of the ball
    (now a cardable offense as you pointed out), they may be turned around
    and running back (but still within 10 yards) of the kicker.  I guess
    unless it's blatant, I let the kicker decide if (s)he has enough room
    to start the play.  The fundamental objective of the ref is to keep the
    game going.  It really is a pain to stop and pace off 10 yards.

       I hope you get some better refs in the future!  Regards,

    			Jeff

Pinch me -- I think I'm in heaven!!

Remember when I said awhile back that the fall league does not have the
pressure, nor the stress.  And I said that even the "poor" players get to play
because there is a wide range of levels in which to play?  Well I ref'd a
couple of matches over the weekend.  The second one was between two division II
BU14 teams (both teams were the fourth team down from each town's best BU14).

It was great fun!  Few penalties, kids laughing at their mistakes, saying
"excuse me" when they accidentally bumped each other...  When I spoke with the 
coaches beforehand, neither cared about winning.  Both teams had been beaten
badly by superior teams so this promised to be the first "fair" match. (And the
boys were jumping up and down cheering at the end with the score tied 2 to 2.)

I had parents come running over to tell me how much they enjoyed my ref'g! 
They said that they usually don't get either qualified or motivated referees.
They thanked me for yelling out things so that the kids (& parents) could 
understand what was happening on the pitch.  And I even had kids come up and
thank me for calling a good, consistent, and fair match!!

    I floated home!!  Sure we're supposed to be self-satisfying people. 
    (Don't let the crow get to you).  But I went into ref'g to help out the 
    town and its 1,000 kid program. It's nice to be thanked.
    
    I'd be the first to share the pain, so I guess I just wanted to share the 
    joy.  Despite all the aggravation I sometimes get ref'g, Saturday 
    afternoon I was in heaven.  

    I want to encourage folks (especially Americans) to consider giving ref'g 
    a try.

	Regards,
			Jeff
    

    A few notes back I asked for two pieces of feedback:

    	1)  Any good pamphlets/books or films/videos on how to ref.

    	2)  Any good checklists on how to rate the performance of a ref
    		(either from an independent observer's point of view,
    			or as a self evaluation)

    	I'd like to use these to encourage more adults around here
    (Massachusetts, USA) to volunteer as ref's or linesmen.

    Thank you in advance for your suggestions.

    				Jeff

   
   Here is the Football Association (FA) Checklist for referees, as discussed 
   some time ago. Please note this is the FA checklist, not mine, as I don't 
   necessarily agree with everything on it !!. The words which follow are the 
   official FA's... 

   
   FA - Self Check List for Referees
   
   A referee is usually his own most severe critic and this should be the 
   case. After every game, a referee should analyse his match performance and 
   endeavour to take corrective action wherever an improvement is possible.
   In order to assist a referee in his honest and constructive 
   self-criticism, it is suggested that he asks himself the following 
   questions in relation to his recent performance.
   
   DID I :
   
   1.  Enforce the Laws ?
   2.  Apply the Laws correctly ?
   3.  Deal with misconduct correctly and sensibly ?
   4.  Interpret 'dangerous play' correctly
   5.  Recognise the difference between unintentional and intentional     
       occurrences.
   6.  Properly deal with incidents of dissent from my decisions ?
   7.  Talk to players other than in the course of my duties ?
   8.  Place my hands on a players person for any reason ?
   9.  Wag my finger at players, or in any manner suggest that I was 
       belittling them ?
   10. When necessary, approach players rather than demand that they approach  
       me ?
   11. Act too casually, suggesting that I was not sufficiently interested in 
       the game ?
   12. Concentrate on the game and my responsibilities at all times ?
   13. Properly establish and maintain general control of the game ?
   14. Maintain maximum activity throughout the game ?
   15. Move around the field of play too slowly ?
   16. Slow up when play reached the Penalty area ?
   17. Anticipate play and quickly move to be near to possible incidents ?
   18. Aim to keep a position where the play was between my location and that     
       of the appropriate linesman ?
   19. Always face the area or re-starts after indicating free kicks etc - 
       running backwards when necessary ?
   20. Move sufficiently from end to end of the field of play
   21. Restrict my movement to a line up and down the centre of the field of 
       play ?
   22. Make full use of the Diagonal System of match control ?
   23. Stick too rigidly to a narrow diagonal line and become too distant 
       from play ?
   24. Apply the 'advantage clause' sensibly and correctly
   25. Properly indicate advantage applications and also rebuke the offender 
   26. Allow players to waste time ?
   27. Get the game re-started quickly after each stoppage ?
   28. Take too long to get into position before signalling for re-starts ?
   29. Allow or condone the entry of trainers without my signalled permission
   30. Turn my back to the ball and not keep all possibilities in view ?
   31. Make the whistle 'talk' for me, with proper variation and emphasis ?
   32. Consider my whistle to be effective ?
   33. Give the proper standard arm signals on all occasions ?
   34. Develop and maintain genuine teamwork with my linesmen ?
   35. Issue proper instructions to my linesmen and make certain that I was     
   understood ?
   36. Allow the linesmen to try to control the game ?
   37. Look to the linesmen for confirmation of decisions which were clearly 
       my responsibility ?
   38. Where necessary, consult with linesmen quickly , privately and briefly 
   39. Change my diagonal direction at half time to promote the best use of 
       my linesmen ?
   40. Look smart and confident when I entered and departed from the field of 
       play ?
   41. Approach the game calmly and fully prepared, or was I distracted in 
       any way ?
   42. Become over-confident, 'gimmicky', or unnecessarily the 'centre of 
       attention' ?
   43. Keep clear of the immediate location of play ?
   44. Allow players to surround me to appeal against, or to question, my 
       decisions ?
   45. Control myself, using an effective whistle and calm voice to control 
       the players ?
   46. Thank my linesmen after the game and discuss relevant factors     
   afterwards with neutral linesmen ?
   47. Caution or send off any players and record the necessary detail ?
   
   (NB.  Reports must be sent in Promptly to the appropriate authority)
   

    
    Sure is quiet in here...
    
    Well I finally had to do it on Saturday...that is by following the
    letter of the law I sent a player off, but I didnt feel 100% happy
    about it.
    
    I had booked the player earlier for UC, as he had been using his elbows
    a little too keenly..but not enough for Violent conduct.  Later, as he
    ran on to a through ball, I blew for offside, and he carried on
    playing.  I blew the whistle a further 2 times before he stopped,
    realised what I was blowing for, and in frustration kicked the ball
    away.  The new wording of the changes to the laws (see note 222)state that
    he must be cautioned, and 2 yellows = 1 red, but I did feel its a harsh 
    way to go.
    
    Any one else had similar experiences/feelings ??.  Am I getting soft ??
     
    Paul

Hey Paul,

'Rules is rules'. 

OK, so they're not often wonderful, but even footballers should be able to 
read . . .

grahame

    I just got my 1993 US Soccer Assoc. ref patch, and the latest Laws of the 
    Game book in the mail.  So, I guess it's time to reread, and prepare
    for the Spring season.
    
    Perhaps we could share more situations with each other, sort of a "What
    would you call..." forum.
    
    Yesterday a soccer coach asked me out of the blue the following
    question:  Goalie, in the goal area, punts the ball.  The ball stays in
    the penalty area.  She runs over and picks it up and rekicks it. 
    What's the call?  (It's been awhile, so I didn't remember if it's an
    indirect kick or direct).
    
    A neat similar question would be if the ball goes over the penalty line
    in the air but is blown back by the wind! (Obviously, it's gone out of
    the penalty area, but still hasn't been touched by someone else).
    
    Best regards,
    			Jeff
    
    P.S.  I can't wait to get the "Laws" from the four leagues for which I
    ref.  Every year there's five or six differences between them! (Subs,
    side of field for teams, treatment of soft casts, forfeit rules, does
    yellow carded player have to immediately leave, etc.)

    There is a two day MYSA Referee Youth Devision In-service Referee Clinic 
    at Bentley College (Waltham, Mass., USA) this weekend.  
    
    There are also five-hour ref clinics at four different sites being run by 
    MRC (a competing group?)  (3/6 Needham, Ludlow;  3/20 Littleton,  
    3/21 Spencer).
    
    Interested?, call me for details. (DTN 297-3793;  Home 508-263-4112)
    		
    				Jeff

    Here's a question which, I think, deals with local custom.
    
    Clearly the ref can verbally warn, and in fact ask a coach or sub to leave 
    the area.  The question is: "Does the ref show a yellow and/or red flag to
    a coach?", "... to a substitute player not in the game?"  (It's clear
    that when kicking out a fan one would not show a card)
    
    Would the answer to the second question be different, if the sub came
    onto the pitch to argue?
    
    Does it matter if the ball is in play at the time?
    
    Just a few questions of etiquette for my fellow refs.
    
    Regards,
    				Jeff

    Here's a question which, I think, deals with local custom.
    
 >  Clearly the ref can verbally warn, and in fact ask a coach or sub to leave 
 >  the area.  The question is: "Does the ref show a yellow and/or red flag to
 >  a coach?", "... to a substitute player not in the game?"  (It's clear
 >  that when kicking out a fan one would not show a card)

    To the coach etc;..no, but they would still be reported in the same
    manner as a player and can be told to remove themselves from the 
    bench......but with the player he can be cautioned or sent off and 
    be shown the card/s.
    (The ref doesn't kick out fans...that's the big bobbies with the Doc
    Martens that do that..8*)).

    
 >  Would the answer to the second question be different, if the sub came
 >  onto the pitch to argue?
  
    Yes......the sub would be cautioned for entering the field of play 
    without permission and also cautioned for the dissent so he would be
    sent packing as he committed a double offence and shown both cards.
  
>   Does it matter if the ball is in play at the time?

    No and yes.....
    
    No...a player or official can be cautioned anytime, before or after
    the game, when the ref turns up and takes charge and until he leaves 
    the stadium or park, but if the ball is in play during the game he would 
    have to stop the game and restart with a drop ball.
    
    
    Just a few questions of etiquette for my fellow refs.
    
    Regards,
    				Jeff

    p.s. You do not have to show cards, I think they are only used to show 
         crowds what is happening, below the proffesional game I don't
         think they are deemed neccessary.

    regards

    colin.

    Thanks for your thoughts (.62).  I do think that if the GAME has
    started has some bearing on this.
    
    If I red card any player before the kickoff, they must leave BUT their
    team can still have 11 players! (What about a half time red card???)  
    If I red card that sub who entered during play but never was an official 
    player, I believe his team can still have 11 players (although they'd have 
    one less sub to choose from as their two allowable subs).
    
    			Jeff
    
    P.S.  The new rule is that if a sub enters w/o permission & dissents
    (i.e a double yellow), you have to show BOTH the yellow and the red as
    you send him off.
    
    P.P.S.  Anyone have any interesting stories enforcing the new
    "Kickback" law?

    
    If you red card a player on the team sheet as a starting 11 player, the
    team can use one of the named subs and start the game with only one
    sub.
    If you red card a named sub another name can be added.
    This is of course before actual kick off, once the game starts if your
    sent off you can't be replaced, this includes � time.
    
    ...if the game has started....
    
    Think we're getting crossed lines here.....anybody can go on the field
    before kick off, to warm up etc; but they can still be cautioned. What
    I was saying was that the game, if stopped for a reason other than in
    the laws of the game, is restarted with a drop ball whether it be to
    caution or an invasion of locusts etc. 

    Any good (or bad) stories to tell about refereeing (or watching a ref)
    this season?
    
    In the States we still get away with being friendly with the
    players/coaches/and even the crowd!  In a Div. One girls under 14 match,
    I stopped the play when a club linesman yelled that the goalie "was
    down."  I walked over and learned that she was bit by a bee.  After
    calling the coach to come over, I noticed that the previously carefree
    and friendly crowd did not know what had happened and was showing some 
    concern.  So I went over to their side of the field (I ALWAYS separate
    the fans from the teams) and loudly announced that, "A bee has broken
    the rules by biting the goalie.  However, do not worry, the bee
    will not return as I have given it a red card." (I pulled the card out
    for them to see).  There was a great big laugh (heard by a fellow ref two
    pitches away!), and everyone went back to having a great time cheering on 
    their team.
    
    On the new "kick back" rule, I have not had any problems.  One
    youngster did stop the ball, and then tapped it 2 inches to the goalie
    when no one else was around.  But for kids, who've never really used
    passing the ball back to the goalie as a strategy, it's a non-issue.
    
    Lastly, I told a bunch of girls that if they have lots of time to react
    to a ball (e.g. corner kicks into the goal mouth), I expect them NOT to
    need to cross their hands across their chests.  I called handling on a
    girl who was 15 yards away from a throw-in which was thrown way up in
    the air, softly, and into which she jumped with her hands crossed.
    (i.e. she had developed a new move - "the crossed handed chest pass").
    Do any of you allow crossed hands when safety is NOT a factor?
    
    Regards and happy refereeing and/or being refereed!
    
    					Jeff

    jeff,
    
    at the risk of lowering the tone isn't the cross-handed chest pass
    also called "protecting your Assets" (:==:) similar to way the rest
    of us stand when we're in the wall at free-kicks??
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks

    Quite right!  I tell the girls to cover up and duck whenever
    they are in the way of a "speeding bullet".  99.9% of the time I don't
    call hand ball.  However, I've noticed that some young girls are viewing
    that when they have to trap a slow ball with their chest, that it is OK
    to use their hands.  
    
    The older girls do chest traps just like the boys (i.e. arms away from
    their chests).  I think that protecting ones assets should be for those
    cases where the assets are in danger!!
    
    What would you do if, on a throw-in, a boy sees the ball slowly
    coming down, and at the last second puts his hands in front of the
    family jewels and knocks the ball to his teammate?
    
    Enough of this   :^)  .....  tell us some of your stories!

    Doesn't anyone want to share good (bad) stories (see .65)?
    
    Ok, how about the mundane?  What do you folks do when players ask
    "How much time ref?"  I generally yell to the benches once a half
    when there's about 10 minutes left.  But I don't as a rule respond 
    to individual requests because 1) it's distracting, and 2) I might like
    to add a bit at the end.  WHAT DO YOU DO??
    
    			Jeff
    
    P.S.  Sunday a coach kept yelling "Time out, ref" and making a T with
    his hands!!  I yelled back "No such thing, coach. Do you want to sub?"
    Finally, he got the hint and sub'd a bunch of players so he could tell
    his team what he wanted them to do!!  Do any of you have "Time outs" in 
    your Leagues?  The coach swore that it was legal in college play.

    Ref'd a friendly last night.  It had all kinds of "technical" calls.
    
    	*  Defense in too soon on a missed penalty kick.
    
    	*  Indirect kick touched, but not a full turn of the ball, before
    		second offensive player kicked it.
    
    	*  Throw-in back to their keeper who was out of the penalty area.
    		Keeper gives it one kick backwards and picks ball up in
    		the penalty area.  (You all know the call - right?  What if
    		the throw in had been directly into the penalty area and
    		then the keeper had kicked it once before picking it up?!!)
    
    	Lots of fun being a ref!
    
    			Regards,
    				 Jeff

	I did a tournament last weekend.  Boy they get rev'd up for these
things ( i.e. "the boys AND coaches fill up with testosterone (sp)"). I had
to give a yellow at a BU12, and that cooled them down.  I did some BU19
lines for an "Iron fisted, dictator, ego-maniac ref".  He certainly told them
that he was in charge.  His opening line to the captains was "I don't stand
for no F*ck'g Fooling Around".  He even "sidelined" five or six players during 
the match for having their shirts out of their pants!!  I also made the mistake
of asking before the match if he wanted me to call off-sides or
off-side-position.  He then gave me a 5 minute lecture on how stupid I was!
(He wouldn't accept that any other ref's would do it differently then he did.)
I assured him I knew what I'd want, but that others felt differently.  And at
half time he told both of us linesmen how we'd better reread the manual cause 
    we were holding our flags at the wrong angles!  A very interesting 
    experience.

	Regards,
    			Jeff-the-ref
    
    
    P.S.  Changing the topic.  It must be a sign of the times, but by this
time last year Jeff-the-ref had done three or four "friendlies" between
Digital groups.  This year no one seems to be getting together after
work (aside from the formal football league).  It's kind of sad. 

>    P.S.  Changing the topic.  It must be a sign of the times, but by this
>time last year Jeff-the-ref had done three or four "friendlies" between
>Digital groups.  This year no one seems to be getting together after
>work (aside from the formal football league).  It's kind of sad. 
    
    Or... 
    
    no one wants you to ref them ;-)

    Last night I watched a local adult men's league match.  There was a
    woman ref & I went over & said hi at half time.  We were talking shop &
    I got the strong impression that she gave a yellow card early just
    to show them "who's the boss."
    
    During the second half I spoke with the players on the sideline and
    they said that there was NO reason to give a card -- i.e. a simple
    bumping call worthy of just a direct kick, no complaining, no rough
    play.  Both teams agreed it was just a ref telling them that (s)he's
    in charge so don't mess around...
    
    I've noticed that I get more control out there after a "worthy" card
    is given.  So my question is:
    
    	Do any of you go out and purposely give out a card early on?
    	Do you plan ahead of time which player(s) to watch and "nail them"
    	the moment the do something so that they'll behave the rest of the
    	match?
    
    It seems strange that she'd pick a time that did not justify such an
    action.  If you give a card for something minor, aren't you left open
    to dissent when you don't keep giving cards for similar infractions?
    
    On a similar vain, One of the coaches was telling me about some of the 
    "tricks" he uses (e.g. signaling a player to fake an injury so that the 
    coach can go out and talk to the players).  Are there some experienced 
    ref's out there who'd like to share (admit?) to some goods tricks that 
    the rest of us could use?!!  For example, I'm seriously considering
    using the "give a card early (if deserved)" technique.
    
    Regards,
    			Jeff
    
    
    P.S.  re: 143.71  How could anybody not want sweet little old me to
    		ref them!  Unless word got out that at the last
    		departmental friendly I ref'd the team that was trailing 
    		10 to 0, got a goal when the ball accidently hit my foot 
    		which accidently knocked the ball into the goal!!
    

>>    Both teams agreed it was just a ref telling them that (s)he's
>>    in charge so don't mess around...

In my opinion that is a sign of a poor ref.  If you lack the confidence 
to believe you cannot control the game without resorting to that tactic 
then you've no business reffing at that level.

If you know that a game is likely to get rough (and even if you don't) then 
initially you have a quiet word with the captains prior to the kick-off 
and tell them that you will deal severely with any undue rough play. If 
it happens early and it is warranted then use the card.  IMHO it is 
better to stop play and have a stern word with any player early on 
rather than use the card.

IMHO the best refs especially those I've seen in the UK leagues are the 
ones who talk to the players and keep their cards in their pockets until 
absolutely necessary.
    
I watched a game the other night between to fairly physical mens teams. 
It was one of these 'awful' games that uses two refs and no linesmen. The 
early card was given (by both!) and it had little effect.  By the end of 
the game which got rougher and more out-of-hand as time went on, 13 
people had been cautioned but no-one sent off!

>>    It seems strange that she'd pick a time that did not justify such an
>>    action.  If you give a card for something minor, aren't you left open
>>    to dissent when you don't keep giving cards for similar infractions?

Precisely!  You one thing that can cause you to lose control quicker than 
anything is inconsistency.  

Gerry

    I had an interesting call on Saturday.  I use parents as linesmen, and one
    thing I have them do is count the opponents players after each
    substitution.  (Often there are tons of people running on and off the 
    field, so I can use the help).
    
    Just after a goal kick was taken, one linesman starts yelling, "Ref,
    ref,..." So I blow the whistle and stop play. (I don't listen to any
    one else, but my linesmen)  He yells that team "A" has 12 men on the
    field and sure enough they do.
    
    So the coach gets one person off.  Then I restart with a drop ball
    where it was when I blew the whistle.  To the best of my memory, there
    is NO law on this other than use drop balls for all misc. stoppage of play.
    IF I had given the coach a yellow card for unsportsman like conduct then
    perhaps its an indirect kick -- (is that right?)
    
    Here's a real knocker.... if team "A" had scored, the goal would count,
    even if, at the time of the score, they had 12 men on the field!  The
    rules assume that the professional linesmen will not let more people
    onto the pitch than come off.  Also, with only 2 subs allowed in FIFA,
    its not an issue.
    
    Anyone have similar experiences?

    
    
    
    
	Drop ball right decision, but also......
	I think you should have had at least one caution and/or one
	sending off. The player who entered the field or the one who
	did not leave and if either had touched the ball meantime
	that's another caution so off for a second bookable offence.

	Happened to me once, a team made a substitution at half time
	but the player/officials did not notify me. Anyway  a bit into 
	second half this player was getting booked. Don't know what it
	was but their was something or other unusual with his name that 
	had made me notice it on the team sheets.... sooooo...... 
	I said "Your brother play for your team as well ?", trying to
	make some lighthearted conversation..........
	Blank stare "Errr...no"
	Me...."Lets have a look at these team sheets, something no right
	here !!!"
	See his name as a sub, go over to coach, "When did this guy come
	on ??" ...."Errr...half time, did nobody tell you ?? You're not
	going to book him again ??" (That would have been him off).
	Me thinks for a couple of seconds....."No....but make sure in 
	future, blah blah etc etc."

	Felt that was one up to the refs. Don't think the other team 
	knew much about the rule or they would have been bawling their
	heads off for him to be sent off. 

	colin.
                                                

Good call!  Which team did the parent belong to??!!  I agree with Colin 
that you should have carded the last player on but restart is still drop 
ball.

Here's an interesting case.  Game getting rough (college of course!). 
Two players start pushing and shoving.  Entire bench rushes on to field 
(illegal entry!).  What would you do?  This happened two weeks ago at a 
game at the University of New Hampshire.

Gerry

    re .76
    
    	Easy call for me!!  I'd give enough red cards to abandon the match!
    In our town league, when a team gets its third red card the match is over.
    Of course you could give everyone a red card, and in our league, that
    means that noone could play in their next match.
    
    re .75 & .76
    
    	No I don't think I'd give a yellow card.  This is our fall league
    which is for training & development.  The teams were division 4 (the
    least experienced for their age group), and also, to whom do I give the
    card?  We have unlimited substitutions, and five or six people went
    onto the field.  How do I find the extra one who came on or the extra
    one who didn't go off!  Of course I could have given the coach a
    yellow.  No, unless it's a spring match or a tournament, I can't see a
    card.  It was an honest mistake.  (BUT if a goal was scored I'd be hard
    pressed to disallow it -- so it pays to ask even club linesmen to count
    the other team during substitutions!)
    
    	Happy ref'ing!
    
    				Jeff-the-ref
    

                               NEW PROBLEM!!
    
    	What is your call?
    
    		A player does not do a correct throw when (s)he does the throw 
    	in. BUT, the ball never goes into play. (e.g.the wind keeps it out
    	of bounds.  Do you give it to the other team due to an incorrect throw,
    	or do you have them take it over cause it never went onto the pitch???
    
    	Second question:
    
    		The book says on a throw in your feet must be behind or on
    the line.  Does this mean that if your heel is on the line (but your
    toes are over the line) you are OK or Not?
    
    
    	The first question happened recently and I would have called it
    differently from the ref I was watching.
    
    
    				Regards,

>>    		A player does not do a correct throw when (s)he does the throw 
>>    	in. BUT, the ball never goes into play. (e.g.the wind keeps it out
>>    	of bounds.  Do you give it to the other team due to an incorrect throw,
>>    	or do you have them take it over cause it never went onto the pitch???
    
    If the ball doesn't go into play, you can't give an offence - so let
    the same team take it again. 
    
    I bet you'd book them for time-wasting............. :-)
    
    
    Paul

    
    My opinions (and remember, "If, in the opinion of the referee...":
    
    1. Throw-in never happened...take it over.
    
    2. Heels on the touch line are fine as long as neither heel is raised 
       off the line.
    
    Clark
    
                                                                      

    
    1. As before, the ball never entered the field of play, so it is
    retaken.
    
    2. Any part of the foot over the line is an offence and a foul throw is
    called. Opposing team start the game with a throw-in.
    
    K...

1. As others, retake - never in play.

2. An interesting issue.  The law states that "the thrower must have 
part of each foot on the line or on the ground outside of the line". 
My interpretation of this is that even if part of one or both feet is 
over the line as long as the heels of both feet are on the line that's OK.  
That's the way they rule it in these parts.

Gerry

    Thanks for the last few replies!

    I think we all agree that the throw in did not occur so it's a take-over.

    There seems to be a difference of opinion on the "placement of the
    feet!!"  The law does seem to allow for the toes to be on the field of
    play.  Anyone have a "real" authority interpretation?
    
    I just love these "little" nit picking things.  I can't tell you
    how many parents/coaches yell about "over the line" on throw ins.  I'd
    like to have a really official explaination of the law.
    
    Happy ref'g.
    
    			Jeff-the-ref

>    There seems to be a difference of opinion on the "placement of the
>    feet!!"  The law does seem to allow for the toes to be on the field of
>    play.  Anyone have a "real" authority interpretation?
    
I asked one of my colleagues who is State and higher certified and he 
agreed that as long as your heels were on the line, it didn't matter if 
your toes were inside. It sure reads like that.

Gerry

Well the higher the authority the different the answer! I've checked 
with the guy that is in charge of State Referees and he gives the 
following interpretation:-

"You must be behind the line --- use the outside edge of the line to make the
determination.  In Scenario 1  it's ok because a portion of BOTH feet are
behind the outside edge.  However in Scenario 2 one foot has gone beyond the 
outside edge of the touchline.  So you could have both heels on the touchline 
as long as you don't go past the outside edge.   The critical thing to 
remember is the line is part of the Field of play."

Scenario 1 -- This is ok
                              Field                Foot     Foot

                                                  --         --
                ---------------------------------|  |-------|  |------------
    TOUCHLINE                                    |  |       |  |
               ----------------------------------|  |-------|  |------------
              /                                   --         --
     outside /           Outside the Field
     edge of
  the touchline

Scenario 2 -- This is NOT ok
                                 Field                       --
                                                  --        |  |
                ---------------------------------|  |-------|  |------------
    TOUCHLINE                                    |  |       |__|
                ---------------------------------|  |-----------------------
                                                  --
                        Outside the Field


Gerry

    In the live match on Sky last night,(Wimbledon v QPR), in a torrential
    downpour, Vinnie Jones wiped the ball dry with a towel before taking
    long throws in the first half, but ws prevented from doing so in the 
    second half. Wimbledon claim that it's perfectly legal....
    what's the ruling?....

     Hm!  Not come across this one before but there's nothing in the 
     rules to say you can't.  I'd be interested to know on what grounds 
     it was disallowed.

     Gerry

>     Hm!  Not come across this one before but there's nothing in the 
>     rules to say you can't.  I'd be interested to know on what grounds 
>     it was disallowed.


Q.P.R. Complained to the ref.

Al

    
    
    
    
    
    re:  Drying off the ball before a throw-in:
    
    IMHO:  I'd disallow drying the ball too!!
    
    First, it's a delay of game. (e.g. We do not stop the game for people to
    clean their cleats of mud.)  Second, there is no rule that the ball
    can't be wet.  Only rules relating to size, weight, and pressure.  If the
    ball was water LOGGED, i.e. too heavy,  the ref should ask for a new (also 
    read dry) one.  And lastly, would the person who handed him a towel have 
    done so for the other team?
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    
    I think we need to keep open the throw-in/foot question.  Any more
    inputs?  (I called my local official who said a) toes can be over the
    line if part of both feet are on or behind the line, and b) WHY ARE YOU
    GUYS WORRYING ABOUT SUCH TRIVIA!! (He likened this to the pros who
    constantly take free kicks while the ball is still moving and the ref's
    let it go.)  Can't he see that we ref's LIVE FOR always knowing the
    right call (even if we let some things go!)
    
    Keep those opinions coming!
    					Jeff-the-ref

    Was the towel manufactured in Spain or not?

    Egil "Drillo" Olsen, the Norwegian coach, recently showed the
    Norwegian press a video, proving that at least 10 of the offside
    decisions against Norway in the Norway vs Poland game in Oslo, 
    were erroneous. Quite a few of the situations would probably
    have resulted in a goal.
    
    I'm not saying that videos should be used officially in football,
    but the number of errors seems to imply that we must forever live
    with the fact that the ref's/lineman's eyesight will always restrict
    the possibility of perfect breakthroughs?
    
    Henrik

    
    
     Henrik,
    
     I for one would like to see a third 'man in black' watching the game
     on close circuit Tv or similar. This person would have the ability to
    over rule the onpitch referee. ( Just like they have at the Tennis in
    Wimbledon). I would also like to see a ten yard marker flag like in 
    American football and the penalty freekick as in Rugby league where 
    the referee will take the freekick a further ten yards forward if the
    defending team fail to retire the distance quick enough.
    
    
    I also want to see orange shirts banned and blonde haired players fined
    a weeks wages every week.
    
    
    Gary

    After last nights descisions, perhaps they should use an american
    football, system, or failing that, four or six linesmen. Then maybe the
    sort of mistakes in high pressure games would not happen. I know some
    refs are swayed by the croud, but was last nights non sending off of
    the 'Blonde Man' just a life saving exercise by the ref, who knew that
    he would not leave the grounds alive if the Dutch fans got hold of him
    ?
    
    Rich.

I thought I would sit back and read the comments, but
apart from admitting that Seaman pulled off a cracking
double save, which I thought could have been the turning
point, he was hopelessly at fault for both goals.

The first he was not even on his line and was in front of 
his left hand post.  Koeman the cheating#$%# had an open
goal to aim at.  The second he seemed to dive a little 
bit too late.

The team did ok, but there was too many long hopeful
balls for Shearer and Merson to chase.  Merson played
surprisingly well, Adams had a superb game at the back
Lee Sharpe had a shocker, when is someone going to 
teach him how to cross a ball??  Midfield had no
creativity, Platt worked hard and Ince was putting
in some sterling tackles, but all to no avail.

Having said that we were robbed by a ref that crapped
himself at the crucial moment.  Koeman had to go, Platt
was one on one with the keeper.  Penalty or not? I 
thought it was slightly outside the box, but never mind!

The free kick he scored, looked a very dubious decision,
Ince got booked for not being ten yards, which seemed crazy
when at the other end we weren't even allowed to retake
our free kick when the Dutch did the same thing..ie. 
Encroaching.  England I felt had the better chances, hitting
the post twice, and Holland seemed to be shooting from a long
way out which troubled no-one.

Their offside goal was about 5 yards onside, so basically the
ref bottled it, and will never be welcome on these shores,
according to the U.K. tabloids!!!

Chris Swiffen.

God knows why my note is entered here, can someone tell
me how to move it or move it to the WC Group 2
conf.

Cheers,

Chris.

    
    Chris,
    
    SET NOTE/NOTE=129.l 143.94
    
    Paul

Cheers Paul, unfortunately I am on a PC, 
using notes in windows, and there does not appear
to be a set note command to call up!

Chris.

Try this....

At the Notes selection thingy click on SHOW/MODIFY then try modifying your 
existing note and giving it a new-id.

Paul

    
    Failing that, unplug your PC, through it out of the nearest window and
    don't use ANY windows interface to notes again!!! :-)

    I had an uneventful weekend ref'g, EXCEPT I made 1 mistake!! (Oh
    blimey)
    
    I gave a yellow card (BU14 Div. 1) and let the player stay in.  It
    seems that in this one (of four I ref), the player has to come out
    until the next substitute opportunity.  Soooo, can I have a show of
    electronic hands, how many leagues have the following rules regarding
    the giving of a yellow:
    
    
    		Player can  	Player must be		Player must leave
    		stay in		substituted 		(His team plays one
    				for immediately		down until sub. allowed)
    		----------	--------------		------------------------
    
    Number of
    Leagues with
    this rule:
    
    
    Thanks,
    		Jeff

As far as I know in Germany...

    		Player can  	Player must be		Player must leave
    		stay in		substituted 		(His team plays one
    				for immediately		down until sub. allowed)
    		----------	--------------		------------------------
    
    Number of
    Leagues with
    this rule:      ALL		    ---				---


    Same rule from the lowest amateur league to 1. Bundesliga and
    from Under 7's to Under 70's  ;-).


Eduard

P.S. first time I ever heard of the other possibilities.

As far as I know in France...

    		Player can  	Player must be		Player must leave
    		stay in		substituted 		(His team plays one
    				for immediately		down until sub. allowed)
    		----------	--------------		------------------------
    
    Number of
    Leagues with
    this rule:      ALL		    ---				---


    Same rule from the lowest amateur league to 1st. Division and
    from Under 7's to Under 70's  ;-).

								.Andre.


>P.S. first time I ever heard of the other possibilities.
	Same for me...
	

    
    
    		Player can  	Player must be		Player must leave
    		stay in		substituted 		(His team plays one
    				for immediately		down until sub. allowed)
    		----------	--------------		------------------------
    
    Number of	  ALL IN NH 	  NH HIGH SCHOOLS
    Leagues with  WHO PLAY       (DON'T PLAY FIFA)		NONE
    this rule:    UNDER FIFA


     I think you made the correct decision.  I get very worried about 
     these leagues who make up laws.  There is a very strict limit on 
     what FIFA say can be amended to suit local conditions.

     Gerry    

    Australia - same as Germany and France
    
    Ica

    I'm an italian ref. Same as Germany and France
    
    Pino

    A New challenging question has just come my way!
    
    	Team "A" has a direct kick Let's say 35 yards from team "B"'s goal.
    
    	An "A" player is near the "B" goal along with only the goalie and
    	one defender from team "B".  Just BEFORE the ball is kicked, the
    	defender runs off the field (i.e. over the goal line), and yells to
    	the attacking player that he's now in an offsides position!  Is he?
    	
    	I have my thoughts about what the ref should do.  What do you
    	think?
    
    		Regards,
    				Jeff

    
    
    
    
    Yellow card for Defender B?
    
       1. Leaving the field without permission (or have I got that mixed up
          with entering the field).
    
       2. Unsportsmanlike conduct.
    
    The player from team A is not offside because the ball isn't in play?
    
    Clark

   	
    Yellow card for defender.  Law 12.  "Player cannot enter or 
    re-enter..., or leave the field of play during the progress of the 
    game (Note: NOT 'while the ball is in play') without having 
    received signal from the referee that he may..."

    Assuming the kick had not been taken, it should be from the 
    original spot.  If it had been and the referee stopped play to 
    caution, then indirect from where the ball was.

    Gerry

    
    Re -1
    
    It would still be a direct free kick as in when the ref starts the game
    and an opposing player encroaches, he books him but it is still a
    direct kick when he restarts. So when he sees the defender off the
    field he blows for a retake and books the defender.
    
    colin

    Thanks for your thoughts!  I too would consider giving a yellow to the
    defender.  BUT, if I don't card him, is the guy from team A offsides if
    the ball is kicked to him?
    
    On a related example, on a scoring attack, if an attacker is leading the 
    play (i.e. in front of the ball and in an offsides position), they have 
    been known to go off the field to let the ref know that they do not intend
    to become involved with the play.  To the best of my knowledge, the
    ref's haven't blown the whistle and given a yellow card for this.
    And if a goal is scored, it is OK.
    
    I guess my options are either to give a yellow, or call the offsides. 
    I don't think it'd be fair to let the play go on without a whistle...
    Do you?
    
    				Jeff

     Easy one this.
    
    If he leaves the field, stop play, caution him and give an indirect
    kick from where he left the field to the defending team. A player
    cannot leave the field for any reason, especially to gain an unfair
    advantage, see rules, except within normal play where he's running 
    full pelt and cuts the ball back etc. 
    
    anyone disagree.....8*)
    
    I'm 6'4" and 14 stone honest......8*)
    
    colin.

    RE -1   >   caution him and give an indirect kick
    
    
    Does this mean that you should get someone else to kick him ?   ;-)
    
    
    Jerry.

    re .111
    
    	But what would you do if the other situation occured -- i.e. a
    breakaway where one of the attackers runs off the field (ie no unfair
    advantage!)  I know this happens at the professional level and no cards
    are given.
    
    					Jeff
    
    If you're 6'4" and 14 stone, I know what the kids call you when you blow a
    call...
    
    
    
    	S I R  !!!

    RE -1
    
    I think  I already answered this, if he deliberately leaves the field,
    whether a breakaway or not, play should be stopped and the player
    cautioned. You can't just leave the field when you feel like it. Or he
    cuts the ball back just before the line and stops, says to himself "I
    might be offside, I better walk off !" well thats a caution and gaining
    an unfair advantage. In the situation where he chases the ball right 
    to the line and cuts it back, well common sense says he did not mean 
    to leave the field.
    
    I think.....
    
    colin 

    >>>This is a frequent situation in upper levels of play.
    >>>The attacker has made his/her intentions known to either
    >>>the referee (or linesman), if the officials consider the TOTAL 
    >>>play at that particular moment and the play conforms to 3 criteria
    >>>under LAW 11 -- Let play flow!
    
    Rich
    
    On a related example, on a scoring attack, if an attacker is
    leading the play (i.e. in front of the ball and in an offsides
    position), they have been known to go off the field to let 
    the ref know that they do not intend to become involved with the
    play.  To the best of my knowledge, the ref's haven't blown the 
    whistle and given a yellow card for this.  And if a goal is scored,
    it is OK.
    
    I guess my options are either to give a yellow, or call the
    offsides.    I don't think it'd be fair to let the play go on without a
    whistle...  Do you?

    R. 106
    
    The situation is very clear. If the defender intentionally leaves the
    field, ie. his purpose is to put the player offside, he must be booked
    and the goal is valid. 
    
    Pino

    re .116
    
    Pino,
    
    		Thank you for answering.  But you say "..he must be booked
    AND the goal is valid.."  Both can't happen.  Either I blow the whistle
    and then PLAY STOPS, or I let play go on and the goal is scored.  Or
    are you saying I should evoke the advantage rule, let the goal score and 
    then go back and issue the red card.  
    
    There are cases where a card can be given after the fact.  An example
    is the breakaway rule.  If the defender trips the attacker but the
    attacker stays on their feet I can let play continue, but at the next
    stoppage of play I should give a red card! (Do you all agree?)
    
    	Regards,
    
    			Jeff

    Jeff,
    My comments on your entry are identified with >>>'s below.
    
    Rgds,
    Rich
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    re .116
    
    Pino,
    
    		Thank you for answering.  But you say "..he must be booked
    AND the goal is valid.."  Both can't happen.  Either I blow the whistle
    and then PLAY STOPS, or I let play go on and the goal is scored.  Or
    are you saying I should evoke the advantage rule, let the goal score and 
    then go back and issue the red card.
      
    >>>>> Jeff, my interpretation of the scenario described is that a
    >>>>> defender has stepped off the field for the sole purpose of
    >>>>> placing the attacker in an offside position, if an advantage
    >>>>> for the attacking team arises, allow play to continue, and if a
    >>>>> goal is scored it counts.  Follow through by cautioning (yellow card)
    >>>>> the defender -- giving a red card is inapproprate for the
    >>>>> offense.
        
    There are cases where a card can be given after the fact.  An example
    is the breakaway rule.  If the defender trips the attacker but the
    attacker stays on their feet I can let play continue, but at the next
    stoppage of play I should give a red card! (Do you all agree?)
    
    >>>>In this scenario the player although "tripped" (does not fall
    >>>>down, remains in control of the ball, and continues toward the
    >>>>goal) sounds like the beginning of a advantage situation. But where
    >>>>are the defenders? etc.
    
    >>>>To answer your question specifically, yes you can allow advantage
    >>>>on a serious foul play AND red card a player later.  But the referee 
    >>>>should be REAL sure that the advantage being given is going to turn
    >>>>into a great goal scoring opportunity.  If they score, your a hero
    >>>>if they don't....   That's why officiating can be a blast! 
    
    	Regards,
    
    			Jeff

    re .118
    
    Thanks for your note, Jeff.  I agree with everything you said (I, too,
    would not give a red card for going off the field -- except if it's the
    second yellow... :>) ).  
    
    Let's say that I want to caution the player for going off, but choose
    to let play continue, i.e. possible goal scoring opportunity.  If the
    goal is NOT scored, when would I give the yellow:
    
    	a)  When there is a stopage of play (could be 5 min. later)
    	b)  When the defending team gets the ball
     or c)  When the obvious scoring opportunity stops (i.e. play
    		slows down, more defenders get back to help, ...)
    
    Would the answer depend on when the defender gets back onto the field?
    (Probably not!).
    
    An interesting question.
    
    					Jeff

     Why is everything so complicated......
    
     When the advantage is lost, i.e. a shot at goal and it's cleared, the
    defence win the ball etc, etc etc....
    Stop play then caution him. Give an indirect free kick to the opposing
    team. Simple isn't it ???
    
    colin.
    

    RE: .119 & 120
    
    If you've allowed advantage in on the play let it go until there's a
    stoppage in play.  Jeff even if that's 5 minutes "down the road".
    
    The concept for waiting is not to double penalize. You've recognized 
    the foul, you've allowed advantage, let play continue until
    there's a stoppage in play(injury, ball out of touch, free kick, etc)
    then come back and book the player for leaving the field.
    
    By allowing advantage you're saying; "forego the indirect kick because
    the attacking team has a good goal scoring opportunity, -- by blowing the
    whistle, booking the player, and giving an indirect kick you've just
    penalized the team that has been wronged.
    
    Some defensive refereeing is in order here!  In this dynamic play let
    the player know your coming back -- so if play should continue on for
    several minutes before play is stopped, the player who's already
    expecting a "visit" from you will accept the caution a bit easier.
    
    Rgds,
    Rich

    re .121
    
    I said everything you said in four lines. If you read my note I mention
    that as soon as advantage is lost, stop play, you do not have to wait
    until the ball is out of play, i.e. five minutes later. If you continue
    too long the player is open to a snding off as he will come back on the
    park as soon as he can.
    
    The good point you made was to let him know and in adding to that I
    would tell him to remain off the park until I tell him he can come back
    on, which would be when he was going to be cautioned, i.e. even five
    minutes later.
    
    colin

    Colin,
    
    I'd have to disagree with you on one particular point.  The point I
    disagree with is stopping play once advantage is lost. 
    
    I'm not sure of it's placement in the LAWS of the GAME (maybe in Law12 ?), 
    but there's an International Board Decision that states (i'm going to adlib
    here because I'm not sure of the exact wording) ..."referee once applying 
    advantage will wait for a stoppage in play to caution a player."
    
    So I'd wait until there was a stoppage in play - goal, C-kick, G-kick,
    another foul committed by X-player, or whatever, then caution the
    player.  
    
    If TEAM A loses the advantage, and you then stop play to caution the TEAM B
    offender after the advantage is lost, then restart the game with an IFK in 
    favor of TEAM A --- you're going to have to have your whistle surgically 
    removed by a proctologist ;^)
    
    Rich

    OK ....the facts.
    
    Player from team B steps off the park.
    
    You can't stop play immediately because of the advantage. (Team A still
                                                             have the ball)
    
    Thinks, "Will caution him once play stops or the advantage is over.."
    
    Tell player, "Hey you, yes you, stay there the noo !!"
    
    Team A shoot for goal and ball is cleared well up the park.
    
    Advantage lost.
    
    Two options, 1. wait until ball is out of play (could be ages)
                 2. stop play right away
    
    I go for stop play right away, get it over and done with and restart
    play with an indirect free kick nearest to point of offence (as stated
                                                                 in rules)
    
    More chance of his team mates jumping down his throat for giving away
    the free kick.
    
    You slink away and Team A score from resulting kick while team B are
    still arguing.
    
    You retreat to � way line to restart game.
    
    Team A have scored a goal.
    Team B have learned a hard lesson and can't argue because they don't
    know the rules.
    
    Team A buy you a pint after the game.
    
    What more can you ask for.....8*)
    
    colin. 
    

    p.s.
    
    remember, the ref can stop play anytime he wants if an offence has been
    committed.
    
    colin

    RE 118, 121, 123.
    
    I do agree with you, Jeff. It sounds like we see the referee's job in
    the same way. 
    
    Can I know your league and nationality?
    
    Pino

    Pino,
    
    I'm responding to your message in Note "143.126".  I was the author of
    Notes .118, .121, .123.  My name is Richard Jancsy.   I was originally
    responding to Jeff's good "what if" questions.  
    
    You ask what is my league and nationality?  With a smile on my face
    I'll referee in any league!! Just give me some games to do.  With 
    respect to my nationality I'm an American.
    
    I've officiated games from under 10 through Semi-pro league(Portugese), 
    with two appearences on the line in matches with the the U.S. Womens 
    National Team -- the only U.S. team to win a World Cup :^)  
    
    I've been officiating for approximately 9 years. 
    
    Richard

    In the Daily Mirror today (so it must be true) it says and I quote.
                       
    
    WORLD CUP refs this summer will
    look like pink panthers from space.
    
    FIFA have approved a Scottish
    design of shiny silver and pink. They
    say: "it gets away from black."
    
    Yes, it gets away so far that one 
    Caledonian ref is asking: "Where are
    the the handbags to match?"
    
    FIFA'S get out: "They're still in
    shorts, not kilts!" 
    
    
    
    
    
    Has anyone else heard anything about the kits in the World Cup ?
    
    
    Rich.

    I'm not sure I asked this before, but it came up again...
    
    On a throw-in, Team A throws it to their Keeper in the penalty area (OK, 
    the kick back rule is not violated).  The Keeper let's the ball hit and 
    dribbles it around, picks it up and punts it.  Everything seems OK to
    me.
    
    BUT, what if the keeper gets the ball outside of the penalty area, and
    kicks it back into the penalty area and then picks it up!  Has he not
    kicked it back to the keeper (i.e. is he treated as another player when
    outside of the penalty area?)
    
    This call would determine all sorts of cases where the keeper goes out
    of and then back into the penalty area.  Any comments?
    
    I called it an indirect during a friendly.  The coach after the game
    asked about the call thinking I call kickback on a throw-in which, of
    course would be an error on my part.  I explained that the keeper got the 
    ball on his foot outside of the penalty area so when he brought it back it 
    was a kickback!  The coach didn't disagree but rather marveled at the
    complexity of such a simple game! (And congratulated me for quick
    thinking!)  Did I do right?
    
    					Jeff

    >>Did I do right?
    
    No.
    
    You're just being padantic.

    Personally, I would have decked you ;-)
    
    

    
    I have a question i would like to ask.
    
    On a Goal-kick, Team A (Goalkeeper) takes the goal kick. Can Team B's 
    attacker be offside ?
    
    I always thought that if you were in your own half then you were unable
    to be offside, but if the opposing defenders pushed up while you were
    in their half before the kick was taken you would be offside.
    
    Someone told me last week that you could never be offside from a
    goalkick. This means you could stand next to the opposing goalkeeper if
    you know your goalkeeper could clear the opposing teams line of
    defence. 
    
    Apparently the only way you can be offside is if one of your players 
    flicks the ball on while you are in a offside position.
    
    Could someone please confirm what the rules say on this matter.
    
    Cheers
    Nige.
                                         

    
    Correct me if I'm wrong.....but I thought that the only time you can't
    be offside was at a throw-in?? Oh, and during the 1/2 time interval.
    
    JBG

Of course you can be offside from a goal kick but not when it is the opposition
taking the kick or any kick. 
You can never be offside when the opposition have the ball it is only when one
of your own players touch it that you can !
You can't push up on the keeper either because, as far as I know ,you have to
stay a certain distance (10 yards ?) from any opposition player taking a
free,corner,penalty,goal kick etc...

Get it ? 'cos I'm confused trying to explain it :-)

Peter.

    My recollection:
    
    No offsides in four instances.
    
    1. Throw-in
    2. Goal kick
    3. Corner kick
    4. Drop ball
    
    Of course, as soon as the ball has been played by one of your teamates,
    the offsides rule applies as usual.  This is most often seen when a
    corner kick is flicked to a mate in an offside position.  (Only the first
    player may play the ball whether or not he is in an offside position).
    
    Clark

    what happens if two attacking players beat the offside trap, there is
    only the goalie to beat and one attacker passes the ball to the other
    who then scores. Are any of these players in an off-side position?...

>    what happens if two attacking players beat the offside trap, there is
>    only the goalie to beat and one attacker passes the ball to the other
>    who then scores. Are any of these players in an off-side position?...
    
    No, provided that the player receiving the pass is behind the ball when
    it is played. You cannot be offside if you are behind the ball.

    
    At a corner kick you cannot be offside because the ball is on the
    goal line and plays everyone onside!
    
    JBG

         
    Very interesting question.  
    
    My guess: Normally, (not one of the aforementioned non-offsides 
    situations) the player who recieves pass would only be in an 
    offside position if he were ahead of the ball when it was passed 
    to him.  (I am assuming both players were legally onside when the 
    through pass was struck to the first of the attackers.)
    
    In the non-offside situation, I think that as long as the ball 
    remained behind the defenders, both attackers are onside?
    
    Clark     
    

    Re .139 et al, you are in an off-side position if you 
    are nearer to the opponents goal-line than the ball, unless 

    a) you are in your own half of the field, and 

    b) you are not nearer to your opponent's goal-line than at least
    two of your opponents. 

    Being in an off-side position does not necessarily make you 
    'off-side'.

    Gerry

    PS the word is "off-side".  There is no such word as off-sides.

    Re. when no off-side:-

    You cannot be off-side if you receive the ball directly from a 
    throw-in, goal kick, or corner kick.  At a drop ball you can be 
    off-side.

    Gerry

    re. the question of where the opposition can stand at a goal-kick.
    All players must be outside of the penalty area and stay outside
    until the ball leaves it. 

    Someone mentioned about standing next to the opposition goalkeeper 
    if you thought your goalie could kick it that far.  Correct - you 
    can't be off-side.

    Gerry

>    BUT, what if the keeper gets the ball outside of the penalty area, and
>    kicks it back into the penalty area and then picks it up!  Has he not
>    kicked it back to the keeper (i.e. is he treated as another player when
>    outside of the penalty area?)

    I don't believe the goalkeeper has done anything wrong in this 
    instance.  He is still the goalkeeper wherever on the field he is 
    - it's just that he can't use his hands when outside of the 
    penalty area.  He might be guilty of time-wasting but that's a 
    different law.

    Gerry

    >>re. the question of where the opposition can stand at a goal-kick.
    >>All players must be outside of the penalty area and stay outside
    >>until the ball leaves it. 


I thought it was that a non-opposition player may not recieve the ball from a
goal kick unless they are outside the penalty area and opposition players must
be outside. The reason for this is that there may be two players inside the
penalty area when a goal kick is being taken i.e goalkeeper and a player taking
the kick.

Peter.

>I thought it was that a non-opposition player may not recieve the ball from a
>goal kick unless they are outside the penalty area and opposition players must
>be outside. The reason for this is that there may be two players inside the
>penalty area when a goal kick is being taken i.e goalkeeper and a player taking
>the kick.

    Sorry - didn't make it clear - yes you are correct - it's the 
    opposition who must be outside.

    Gerry

    re:-1
    
    Correct, but the goalie must stay on his line so theoretically he is
    outside the area, in other words he can't saunter about the box.
    
    You've seen it before where the goalie runs outside the box, recieves
    the ball from the goal kick, taps it back in and picks it up. This
    also answers the previous question about this situation. It's not a
    free kick.
    
    He has to be outside the box when the kick is actually taken, not
    hanging about the edge where he can nip out and get the short pass.
    
    colin.

    >>Correct, but the goalie must stay on his line so theoretically he is
    >>outside the area, in other words he can't saunter about the box.

This relates to a good few back.

Does this mean that theoretically the keeper is off the pitch ? If it does, does
that not imply that the keeper has left the field of play without the Ref's
permission and will return to it, without so doing also, and should therefore be
booked.

Peter(Trying to generate confusion).

    from .146
    
    >>>>You've seen it before where the goalie runs outside the box, recieves
    >>>>the ball from the goal kick, taps it back in and picks it up. This
    >>>>also answers the previous question about this situation. It's not a
    >>>>free kick.
    
    Colin,
    The description of a keeper receiving a goalkick outside the
    penalty box and then picking the ball up after dribbling it back
    into the penalty area is in fact a free kick -- an IFK. 
    Or did I misinterpret your last sentence?
    
    Rich

    re:.147
    
    Keep it simple.....he can stand on the goal line.....does the player
    who is taking the kick and leaves the field on his run up, get
    cautioned....i think not, one rule of refereeing (unwritten), is a
    wee bit of common sense.
    
    re:.148
    
    Does the new goalies rule change about pass backs include the goalie
    recieving a pass from a dead ball situation and taking it into his area
    to pick it up, mean he is commiting an offence, it's not really a pass
    back, or is it, if it is i didn't know that one. Does this statement
    make sense....8*)
    
    colin.

>>    Does the new goalies rule change about pass backs include the goalie
>>    recieving a pass from a dead ball situation and taking it into his area
>>    to pick it up, mean he is commiting an offence, it's not really a pass
>>    back, or is it, if it is i didn't know that one. Does this statement
>>    make sense....8*)
    
    Richard is correct.  A goalie cannot pick up the ball from a dead 
    ball situation except a throw in, even if he goes outside of the 
    area and kicks it back in.

    As to other players of the kicking team being in the penalty area 
    at the goal kick, there is no limit on how many or where they 
    stand, but the ball has to go out of the area before it is touched 
    to be in play.

    Get's complicated doesn't it!  But never mind - ref's will have to 
    count fouls and organize shoot-outs under the new U.S. proposals - 
    they won't have time with these trivialities!

    Gerry

    
    
    Colin, my responses are below the >>>>>'s
    
    Rich 
    
    >>>>re:.147
    
    >>>>Keep it simple.....he can stand on the goal line.....does the player
    >>>>who is taking the kick and leaves the field on his run up, get
    >>>>cautioned....i think not, one rule of refereeing (unwritten), is a
    >>>>wee bit of common sense.
    
    Your absolutely right -- common sense is your guardian!   Another key
    ingredient to officiating, particularly as it relates to the goalkick 
    question, is understanding intent.  If the player gets the ball into
    play *quickly* I could care less if he's off the field to get a running
    start.
    
    >>>>re:.148
    
    >>>>Does the new goalies rule change about pass backs include the goalie
    >>>>recieving a pass from a dead ball situation and taking it into his
    >>>>area to pick it up, mean he is commiting an offence, it's not really 
    >>>>a pass back, or is it, if it is i didn't know that one. Does this
    >>>>statement make sense....8*)
    
    The basis for the rule change was to eliminate time wasting tactics.
    
    Confusion with the rule change can be attributed to the way folks
    classify the rule -- as a solely a "pass back" infraction.  The rule
    states (I'm going to adlib here) "... the keeper shall not take 
    touch the ball with his(her) hands when it is kicked deliberately
    from a teamate."  This would include goalkicks.
    
    It should be pointed out that any player that uses trickery or other
    tactics to circumvent the law is still punishable by an indirect free
    kick.   By the way deflections or miskicks don't count -- that is unless
    you think it was on purpose, but do yourself a favor, make sure your 
    close to the play before you make that call!  ;^)
    
    Rich

    
    Does anybody know the rule of handball..? I say that its if the ball hits
    you anywhere between the shoulder and the hand and someone else says
    that its if the ball hits you anywhere between the elbow and the hand..
    
    Whats the answer..?
    
    Andy..B

    
    Andy,
    
    	its only handball if the referee sees it, regardless of precisely
    where it hits you 8-)
    
    JBG

    I always thought it was the shoulder and the hand but I know nothing
    anyway.
    
    
    /GAry

    The rule is below the shoulder... and it's not `officially' if it
    hits you there - it's if you deliberately play it with your arm.
    I suppose it should be called Armball, really ;-)
    
    Norman

    RE: .152
    
    "Does anybody know the rule of handball..? I say that its if the ball
     hits you anywhere between the shoulder and the hand and someone else
     says that its if the ball hits you anywhere between the elbow and the
     hand.."
    
    >>>>A handball is a deliberate action by a player to control the ball
    >>>>with the use of the hand or arm.  So the law specifically describes
    >>>>a handball as ...deliberately handling of the ball... 
    
    >>>>A ball *hitting* a player in the hand or arm does NOT constitute an 
    >>>>infraction. 
    
    >>>>To answer your question on the anatomical region that is used to
    >>>>judge a "handball I loved Norm's description from reply 143.154 
           "I suppose it should be called Armball, really ;-)"
    
    >>>>Shoulder to finger tips!
    
    Regards, Rich

    As all have said, a "handball" must be intentional to be called.
    
    This is sometimes not a clear call.  I have had referees call it when a 
    player instinctively put his or her arms up to protect themselves from
    a screamer of a shot to the face or chest.  
    
    I guess the letter of the law allows that to be called, since they 
    "intentionally" protected themselves, but I think common sense (there's 
    those words again) should prevail and the call should be "play on".
    Probably no advantage is taken away, since the ball would have struck a 
    body part and been deflected anyway.
    
    Over here (US), it seems to me that many non-intentional handballs are 
    penalized; is it the same in other places?
    
    Clark

    There is NO SUCH THING as a HAND BALL!  "HANDLING" is the
    correct name for the infraction.
    
    Actually.... it's called "Handling" because it's more than just the
    hand!  As previously noted, the shoulder on down is the offending area,
    and hitting it is NOT enough... it must be deliberate to gain an unfair
    advantage.
    
    A related topic is that the consensus of ref's agree that reflex
    actions (i.e. cover my face with my hands on a hard kick from 2 yds
    away) is not an infraction.  On the other hand, a girl 10 yards from a
    throw-in who, at the last minute crosses her arms over her chest, is
    not performing a reflex protective move and should be penalized.
    
    Best regards,
    			Jeff
    
    P.S.  Still haven't got a clear consensus from you all on if a throw-in
    or secondly a pass back to the keeper who's outside the penalty line is OK 
    if he subsequently dribbles back into the penalty area and picks up the 
    ball.  I suppose you'd all agree that the second example is a
    violation, but how about the first?

    RE.-2
    Well, the ref's over here in Holland are not so great either.
    How they call it, depends very much on the team.
    Also the rule of the broken through player who gets fouled, is
    interpreted many ways over here. Usually it's just a yellow card, while
    the rules simply say red.
    
    Last weekend, the game Feijenoord (Rotterdam) - Ajax (Amsterdam), the
    only REAL classic game Holland has, was played, and the ref was
    definitely NOT impartial. Feijenoord usually plays rough, while Ajax is
    all soupless(sp?). So, when a Feijenoord player called Larsson fouled 3
    people badly within 10 minutes, he didn't get a card. A defender of
    Ajax fouls 1 player, and gets yellow, while the foul wasn't as severe
    as the other 3.
    Another thing: the ref gave Feijenoord a penalty, which he could have
    given, but also could NOT have given. An Ajax-player is obviously
    fouled in the 3rd minute, but no penalty-kick.
    Again, in the second half, a player is fouled, no penalty either.
    Then, 5 yards away from the ref, a Feijenoord player elbows down an
    Ajax-attacker in the 16 meter area. No Penalty-kick!!! Under his nose.
    
    So when a ref over there makes a mistake, it's not only over there.
    I think there should be professional referees. Full-time referees, with
    always the same line-men. Soccer is a game, where the ref can set the
    end-result, and that shouldn't be, that's why I think professional refs
    should be contracted.
    
    Any comments on that?
    
    Marcel, an Ajax-fan.
    P.S. Ajax lost 2-1.

    RE.-2
    In my previous reply, I completely forgot to react to -2.
    I think the first isn't a foul.
    At least not if I got the question right.
    You say: A player throws in the ball towards the keeper, who dribbles
    the ball inside his 16-meter area, and then picks it up, right?
    IMNSHO, that's no foul.
    
    Marcel, he_who_got_a_little_carried_away_in_his_previous_reply.

    Jeff,
    
    RE : Penalising a goalkeeper for accepting a throw in outside
         the box, dribbling inside, and picking it up 
    
    You say you did call this as a foul in a friendly ?? If you penalised a
    goalie in the UK for that, you'd most likely be in need of some form
    of police escort off the pitch. You're just being far too picky !
    Common sense should prevail at all times. As was mentioned in a
    previous reply, you'd get decked :-)
    
    Kev.. 

    OK so I shouldn't call the trivial foul!!  I know that... (Did I
    mention that the team I gave the kick to was way behind, and a group of
    kids playing against grown up -- i.e. a slight attempt on my part to make 
    things a bit more fun for the players!)  Anyway, I really wanted to know 
    the "Legal" answer, I guess I agree that it's a minor infraction at best.
    
    
    				Jeff
    
    
    P.S.  Don't tell me that you other refs haven't "bent" the rules in a
    friendly just to let folks have fun?  For instance I whistled a bad
    throw in on a newcomer to soccer (an adult company, wildly friendly match
    of know-nothing-about-soccer types).  Instead of giving the other team
    the throw in, his "penalty" was that I made him do it over and over again 
    until he got it right!! Everyone was rolling on the ground laughing!
    
    	In another similar match, one team was losing 10 to nothing with
    very little time left.  Somehow their only shot on goal hit the refs
    foot and went in!  Of course I had to allow the goal.  You'd have thought 
    that they won the world cup...
    

    RE:  .158
    
    Jeff,
    
    There's no foul if someone throws the keeper a ball and he/she brings
    it back into the penalty area picks it up and kicks it back into play. 
     
    Rich

    Can anyone help,
    
    I run a boy team, during a recent game an incident happened that 
    confused me regarding obstruction, was the ref correct?
    
    The ref blew up and gave an indirect free kick for obstruction 
    just inside the 18 yard box. However, he insisted that the kick 
    should be taken on the line of the 6 yard box. Was he correct.
    
    Thanking you in advance
    
    Gary

    According to your description the correct placement of the ball is
    at the point of the infraction(just inside the 18).  The exception to
    this placement are fouls committed in the *goal area*.  In this
    situation it's placed on the goal-box line running parallel to 
    the goal line. (that's for attackers in their oppenents goal area).
    
    
    Rich

    I confirm, if you have not omitted anything, that the ref was not
    right.
    
    Pino

    If it happened inside the Goal area it would be taken on the 6 yard
    line nearest to where the infraction occured.  If it happened inside
    the 18 yard line then it would be taken from the spot where the
    incident occurred.
    
    The Ref was wrong.
    
    Cal

    Has anyone seen the "new" ref uniforms?  Personally, I think that Basic
    Black is just fine.  It let's us blend into the field.  We should not
    stand out nor be "colorful."  Afterall, the best match is one in which
    afterwards no one remembers or talks about the ref!
    
    	Just MHO -- comments?
    
    				Jeff-the-ref
    
    P.S.  Last weekend, a little girl approached me and said, "You're not 
    Jeff-the-ref, you're Jeffrey-the-referee!"  Out of the mouths of babs!
    
    
    P.P.S.  At a U10 6v6 travel team match (we all have to do the little
    ones every so often), at half time a parent approached and asked
    about a call (Kick back violation) I had made.  I explained and he was
    very appreciative about my taking the time to speak with him.  Sooo,
    after the match, I held a mini-clinic for the parents to explain the
    kick-back rule.  It was really nice to see their faces and hear them
    speak about how they could now help their kids.  We're so lucky in the
    US where the parents are still learning about football, and don't have
    a macho thing about showing their ignorance!
    

    The following was entered on the Internet concerning a recent
    handout by USSF on the offside law. It was made prior to the World 
    Cup. Any comments?

    Gerry

****************************************************************


          OFFSIDE:  GUIDANCE FOR REFEREES AND LINESMEN 
 
     With the 1994 World Cup just around the corner and the eyes of
the international soccer community focused on us, it is time once
again to state plainly the official interpretation of Law XI,
Offside. 
 
     Law XI is an extremely simple law, and the referee should not
seek to complicate it.  It is important at the outset to make three
things clear.  First, in any discussion of offside, the terms
"touched" and "played by" mean the same thing:  "made contact with."
If a ball is played deliberately over his own goal-line by a
defender, the referee awards a corner-kick, just as he would if the
ball had merely bounced off the defender's legs or head or body.  In
off-side situations, it does not matter whether the defender
intended to play the ball or whether he was merely struck by it
during its flight, the decision that the referee will make is the
same, and will depend upon the situation that has developed. 
 
     Second, the referee should be aware of the function of the
diagrams illustrating points in connection with off-side (Diagrams 1
through 22, which follow the Laws of the Game in the annual guide
for referees published by the United States Soccer Federation).  The
drawings are intended to clarify principles and points of the Law;
they are static and do not necessarily represent realistic, dynamic
match situations, and must not be taken literally in making definite
decisions in an exact position.  In the text that follows, two
diagrams bearing on situations where the ball is played by a
defender will be examined and explained:  Diagrams 8 and 9. 
 
     Third, the assessment of "off-side position" is made upon the
position of players and the ball at the moment the ball is played by
an attacker, but the decision to penalize or not penalize may have
to be delayed until the referee sees where the ball is going an
which players become involved.  A slight delay by linesman and
referee in these situations leads to better decision-making. 
 
     The referee must use and administer the offside law for the
reason it was written--to prevent players from gaining an unfair
advantage. 
 
REFEREE-LINESMAN COOPERATION ON OFFSIDE: 
 
     The basic principle involved is that a referee and two neutral
linesmen are required to ensure a fair, safe game with equal
treatment for all participants.  This is one of the most important
concepts in understanding a proper interpretation of the Laws.  The
referee exercises general managerial control over the game, while
the two linesmen provide on-the-spot help in important situations.
The proper interpretation of Law XI, Offside, involves coordination
and full cooperation between the linesmen and the referee.  The team
of three officials must engage in a coordinated effort to conduct
the game properly. This is especially true in the case of offside. 
 
     Perhaps the easiest way to begin is by establishing definitive
standards for referees and linesmen to use in judging an dealing
with offside situations: 
 
     1.  Position alone does not constitute offside.  There must be
position and involvement for an infringement of the offside law to
exist. 
 
     2.  The neutral linesman is a qualified official.  It is the
linesman's responsibility to determine position and involvement in
accordance with the provisions of Law VI [sic].  The referee makes
the final decision to stop the game and punish the infringement. 
 
     3.  To determine offside, the linesman must be in position and
concerned about and concentrating totally on his task. Approximately
20 percent of the linesman's concentration should be on the
second-last defender, with the other 80 percent on the area of
activity or involvement.  The linesman cannot be merely a spectator. 
 
     4.  "At the moment a teammate plays the ball," the linesman,
before raising the flag, must do two things: 
 
          a) observe players' positions, b) evaluate players'
involvement. 
 
     "Player involvement" means that the player is IMMEDIATELY
involved, i.e., taking part, in that particular play.  Everything
must be evaluated in a split second:  If both offside position and
involvement exist, then the linesman's flag must go up.  All
involvement must be judged at the moment the ball is played by the
player's teammate, and the linesman's major concern is player
involvement in the are to which the ball is sent by the teammate. In
other words, the linesman must take the time to think like a
referee.  The linesman must wait a fraction of a second, think about
what is going on in the area of involvement, assess this situation,
and take the proper action--either flagging for the offside or not
flagging and continuing to observe. 
 
     The linesman, when observing the attacking player for
involvement, must pay attention to the position of the player's
torso, not his or her arms, legs, or head.  It is the torso of the
attacking player that is important in judging offside position and
involvement; other parts of the anatomy are irrelevant in this
context. 
 
     5.  The area of involvement is that portion of the field where
players of both teams actively participate in a particular event.
The referee and linesman must remember that in the modern game of
soccer, all players are always involved in the game; this includes
activities of the ball. 
 
     6.  The game is a continuous sequence of events; however, as
far as offside is concerned, every event must be judged solely on
its own merits.  When a situation changes or a particular event
within a game is completed, the entire sequence begins again, and
the referee and linesman must begin again to judge the new event and
developments within it. 
 
     Law XI states:  "A player shall only be declared off-side and
penalized for being in an off-side position, if, at the moment the
ball touches, or is played by, one of his team, he is, in the
opinion of the referee, (a) interfering with play or with an
opponent, or (b) seeking to gain an advantage by being in that
position."  This means that the referee must assess what the
situation was when the ball was last played by a teammate of the
player in an off-side position.  The significance of that will
become clear in the discussion to follow. 
 
     Two diagrams used to illustrate points in certain situations,
Diagrams 8 and 9, have proven troublesome for some referees.
Diagrams are not always helpful, particularly when the linesman and
referee are asked to make judgments without seeing the entire
situation.  The referee's decision must be based on the total
behavior of the players, not merely their location at some frozen
moment in time.  Please remember from the outset that the Law has
always been the same--what has changed is the way the game is
played.  In the case of Diagram 8, there can be no doubt. The
situation is an infringement of Law XI.  The player is clearly
gaining an advantage through his offside position.  If the short had
gone directly into goal on the goalkeeper's right, the referee would
have no problem in awarding a goal; however, if the ball had gone
directly into goal on the goalkeeper's left, the referee's decision
would depend upon the actions of player B. 
 
     A note of caution is required here.  The referees must
distinguish between static situations, those involving restarts, and
dynamic situations, where the ball has remained in play.  In
particular the referee should not extrapolate from a situation in
the booklet of Questions and Answers to the Laws of the Game,"
published by FIFA, which describes the case of a penalty-kick in
which one of the attackers is standing in an off-side position.
Specifically, "Is a team-mate allowed to stand in an off-side
position when a penalty-kick is being take?"  FIFA states:  "Yes,
but he would be declared off-side if the kicker failed to score
directly and the player, in the opinion of the referee, interfered
with the game.  The player would not be off-side, if the goalkeeper
parried the ball and deflected it to him."  The answer is for this
static situation only, that is, the taking of a penalty-kick, and is
not intended to represent the dynamic flow occurring during the game
as depicted in Diagrams 8 and 9. 
 
[at this point, the handout includes a reproduction of Diagram 8] 
 
     Diagram 9 can be confusing, because of the difference between
player positions in the newer version (the larger one, at the top)
and the older version (lower left, next to the text). In the newer
Diagram 9 the situation is very similar to that in Diagram
8--attacker B will interfere with the goalkeeper and he must be
declared offside.  We cannot make the same judgment in the older
Diagram 9.  In this case the referee is less likely to consider the
player receiving the rebound to be offside.  If B does not move
toward the goal or show active involvement in the play, then he
should not be punished merely for his position. 
 
[at this point, the handout includes a reproduction of Diagram 9.
There are two drawings (versions) in the diagram, evidently drawn at
different times.  In both drawings, attacker A shoots from the right
side, just inside the penalty area.  The keeper parries the ball to
the attacking left side.  On both drawings, the ball comes to
attacker B, who is in an offside position.  In the newer drawing,
attacker B is roughly in line with the left goalpost, just outside
the goal area.  In the older drawing, attacker B is well off to the
left wing.] 
 
     N.B.  If a goal results directly from the first play of the
ball in either of these situations, the referee must decide whether
the player in the offside position has contributed to it by
interfering with the goalkeeper.  If the decision is yes, then there
can be no goal, and an indirect free-kick for offside must be
awarded.  If the decision is no, then the goal must be given. 
 
     Note:  Please remember that some of the text accompanying the
diagrams and explaining the decisions may be incorrect.  For
example, "interfering with play or with an opponent" is given as the
main reason for offside decisions being given, while in fact in some
of the diagrams the reason would be "seeking to gain advantage by
being in an offside position." 
 
SUMMARY 
 
     We need to overcome and eliminate personal interpretations and
apply the same uniform interpretation of Law XI throughout the
United States that is used in the rest of the world.  Beyond the
basic principle of a full, working partnership between referee and
linesmen, in which the referee makes the final decision, we must
remember there can be no offside without active player involvement.
If an attacking player is playing a passive role, not attempting to
take advantage of his position or to interfere with play or an
opponent, then there can be no decision for offside, whether or not
the ball was last played by a teammate.  The decision must be based
on player behavior, not player location. 
 
[end of handout] 
 
******************************************** 

    In commentary after the (Brazil v Holland) match, Alexi Lalas
indicated the no-call was correct.  (Of course, referees need not take
a player's opinion as definitive. :-) )  Lalas did cite the FIFA
information that was given to the players prior to the World Cup
indicating that body language was critical, rather than just body
position. 
 
     On the other hand, the ABC commentator Seamus Malin argued that
offside would probably have been the correct call.  (The discussion)
was that Romario was sufficiently close to where the ball was played
to justify a decision that he was "involved" in the play, even though
he made no overt movement toward the ball. 

    This topic's been awfully quiet...
    
    Anyone hear any more information on "pending" rules changes for next
    year?  I really hope that they don't start adding rules
    which would require an "official score keeper" to keep track of all
    sorts of crazy things (e.g. after so many infractions in a half, a penalty 
    kick would be given).
    
    				Jeff

    Jeff,
    
    the only good news that I've heard about refereeing recently comes
    from Spain, where they have decided to pay the top referees c.50K per
    year. In my opinion it's the only way to ensure top-class refereeing.
    It's an old saying at this stage but it rings true in this case; `If
    you pay peanuts you're going to get monkeys'....well done to the
    Spanish FA....
    
    Ray....
    

        How about we share some "A funny thing happened..." stories.

    I'll start:

    	This weekend I only had the typical issues; An irate mother
    complaining about my giving her daughter a yellow card (she could see
    much better from 60 yards than I could from 1), and I had to break up
    two parents (one of my volunteer linesmen and the president of a local 
    league) who were fighting over the linemen pushing back a boy who was
    standing too close to the line.

    	However, last weekend, just before Halloween, one GU10 team appeared at
    the pitch with their faces painted (no big deal). And their two male coaches
    came in full female cheerleader outfits complete with falsies and
    colored tin foil wigs!  The other team was traditionally dressed.  It
    was sure fun watching the warm ups.  But, ... I had to tell the coaches
    to get back into their "real" clothes if they wanted to coach (I'd have
    let them stay as they were if they wanted to go to the parents' side of
    the field).

    	I was not too popular, but can you imagine me having to argue
    during the match with one of those guys if they stayed in their
    dresses?  It certainly would have been an unwelcomed distraction!

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Any other unusual/favorite stories out there?

    					Jeff

    OK, if no one wants to share any funny experiences(re -1), I change the
    topic...
    
    Saturday we had our annual Referee in-service clinic.  We went over the
    new "rules" (e.g. if a linesman is indoubt about a player in an offsides 
    position being either actively involved in the play or attempting to gain
    an unfair advantage, the linesman should NOT call offsides)  This
    changes the rule to give the benefit of the doubt to the offense
    instead of the defense.
    
    				Jeff
    
    P.S. We had some fun with some "You make the call" situations.  Here's
    one:
    
    	Team A has the ball and is dribbling up the sideline.  A Team B
    	substitute player (while off the pitch), sticks out his foot and
    	trips the Team A player.
    		What's the call, and restart?
    
    	If the Team B substitute player steps onto the field and then trips
    	the Team A player, is there a difference in call and/or restart?

    re -1
    
    Restart: Free kick 
    
    Punishment: Booking for ungentlemanly conduct
    		Booking for serious foul play
    		ergo 2 bookable offences so he is sent off. 
    
    		Alternatively, send him off for a professional foul.
    
     

Jeff,

I guess that in the rules you cannot officially give a foul but under the 
sole arbitor bit you would.  You would then send the substitute off even though
he's not on the pitch as he's connected officially to the team (same rule
as sending manager's, etc off).

You would then continue as if nothing happened!!!!

    
    restart with a drop ball. send the sub off. once for coming on to the
    field without permission and twice for interfering with play.
    

    p.s. no difference, he is actually deemed as on the field if he
    interfers with play....i think
    

    Jeff,
    
    I'd 'send off' the player for serious foul play. I'd also make him
    leave the area surrounding the pitch. Both teams would still have 11
    players on the pitch. 
    
    I'd restart with an indirect free kick from where it happened. If he
    was a few inches off the pitch 'parallax' would come into play and I'd
    have seen him on the pitch. If he was well off the pitch it would be
    different (but then he wouldn't have been dribbling the ball up the
    wing). 
    
    Peter
    

    Some good answers!  Here's a hint or two:
    
    	First:  The sub is NOT a player at the time of the offense so you
    		can not give him a Foul type of punishment.  i.e. he can't
    		be called for tripping, or serious foul play.
    
    	Second:  Since he is not a player, it doesn't matter if he steps
    		onto the field or not when this happens.
    
    	Third:  Do you know when you restart with a drop ball vs when you
    		restart with an indirect free kick?  (Notice that since #1
    		is true, you can eliminate a direct free kick as a possible
    		restart)

    Hi Jeff,
    
    There is a big difference between tripping and serious foul play. 
    
    The first is a foul for which you give a free kick. 
    
    The second is a sending off offence.
    
    So if you trip someoneone they get a free kick. If that trip is
    sufficiently bad they get sent off for serious foul play (or violent
    conduct, etc).
    
    In the spirit of this note (no looking at rule books) I'd guess that you
    can send off anyone connected with the game for serious foul play. You
    might not show them the red card, but that's a different matter.
    
    I'd also guess that the pitch includes the surrounding area for such
    behaviour. You can have a coach removed for bad behaviour, can't you?
    
    Maybe you just ask them to leave the area?
    
    The more I think of this the more I think I'm wrong.
    
    Peter
     
     

    Jeff,
    
    Having re read your note, I think I may position myself by the benches
    at Highbury and tell Supersub Ed McGoldrick to trip Anderton next time
    he ambles past him.
    
    I can't believe that the Sub would be allowed to participate in the
    game after tripping someone. 
    
    Stuart 

    
    This reply is not related to the previous dozen or so...
    
    A bit of background, the match is played at 'District League' level, in
    France!
    
    What would you (the ref.) do in the following circumstances...
    
    Team A get a corner, the sweeper comes forward to attack, corner is
    cleared, sweeper runs back complaining loudly that his shirt was
    held preventing him from jumping.  Ref comments that he didn't see any
    infringement.  Ball is passed to opposition no. 9 who takes off for
    goal, sweeper continues 'back to base' at speed.  Sweeper arrives
    within range of no. 9, who notes him coming and changes direction
    across the sweeper, sweeper goes through with tackle, doesn't get
    anywhere near the ball, and no. 9 falls to floor clutching his
    knee, clearly hurt.  This occurs about half way between centre spot and
    penalty area.
    
    Ref, what do you do now?
    
    What difference, if any, does it make if there was only the goalkeeper
    between the no. 9 and the goal?
    
    Just curious,
    Thanks,
    Ian

    Clear cut professional foul. Send off the sweeper & direct free kick.
    
    Stuart

Depends whether its interpreted as serious foul play or professional foul.
Both times player is sent off just make a difference in the length of
suspension.

    Ian,
    
    Which player were you (or was the sweeper called Danny)?
    
    Just interested
    
    Peter

    Ok, good discussions!  The point I want to make is it's important that
    we call things EXACTLY as they are described in the Law Book.  If I
    write it up using the wrong words, there is a chance that my call will
    be overruled.

    Let me explain the call.  First, it is REAL important that we
    distinguish between a player and a non-player (i.e. the sub).  A non
    player can NOT be called for serious foul play (or even a professional
    foul) cause he ain't playing! BUT he CAN be called for Violent Conduct!  
    OR, even though he can't be called for tripping, he could be called for
    Ungentlemanly conduct.

    So, you see, we ref's do have the opportunity to red card the sub. But we
    can't SEND OFF someone who ain't a player on the field! In fact, I'd
    have to say that the offending team would still have 11 players since
    the sub is not a player who we sent off!!!  This would also be true if
    a fight broke out before the match began, both teams could still have
    11 on the field despite a red or two being given.

    Now the restart has to be an indirect free kick.  The only time you can
    do a drop ball is if play is stopped and the ref can't determine which
    team is at fault (e.g. a dog runs on the field, or the ball goes out
    of bounds and no one can say who touched it last).  (As an aside, if
    the sub ran out and tripped the player inside the penalty area, the
    restart would still be an indirect (versus penalty) kick.

    The "official" response, therefore, is:

    		Penalty:  A yellow to the sub for Ungentlemanly Conduct
    			     or a red for Violent Conduct

    		Restart:  Indirect free kick

    		Misc:	It doesn't matter where the sub was at the time of
    			  the infraction.  Same call.  You can only call 
    			  a player for entering the field w/o permission
    			  if it's time to enter the field and he does w/o
    			  your permission.  Of course, you can always call
    			  such behavior "Ungentlemanly conduct" if you want
    			  to punish him!
    
    The key message at our annual clinic is that we need to be more precise
    in our language.  The coaches are reading the rule book and fighting
    our decisions based on the words we use.  So if I said "Serious Foul
    Play," I better be speaking about a palyer and not a sub.
    
    Regards,
    		Jeff

    
    Ref the replies to my note, are any of you qualified refs?  If not, any
    refs to backup their judgements?
    
    I'm not going to let on as to whether I was watching, playing or even
    involved at all until after all the responses...!    -)
    
    Ian

    Ian,
    
    Surely being a qualified ref invalidates any answers.
    
    After all, the players, coaches, spectators and everyone in the pub
    knows better than the ref!
    
    Peter
    
    And yes I am, but don't tell anyone.

    
    I dunno, I just know what happenned in this incident...
    
    IAn

    Jeff,
    
    Interesting question you posed.
    
    Since the referee is stopping the game to administer a disciplinary 
    punishment (versus a technical punishment) to a non-player(sub) the
    restart I believe is a drop-ball.  I agree with wishing the offender a 
    happy day someplace else other than the bench:^)
    
    With respect to Ian's "loaded" question ...Foul? What foul? I don't see no
    stinkin' foul ;^> 

    
    What's "loaded" about it, I'm not admitting nothing until Monday when
    I'll let you know if I got another card!
    
    Oops, what a give away, I was the sweeper by the way
    
    Ian

    re:.190
    
    Thanks for your thoughts.  As per our phone conversation, I think that the 
    operative event here is a player was involved (the guy who got tripped).  
    So the restart (IMHO) would be an indirect free kick.
    
    If two subs started fighting, and I stopped play, then the restart
    would have been a drop ball!
    
    Regards,
    		Jeff

                               NEXT QUESTION!!
    
    An attacking forward, standing outside the penalty area,  yells to the 
    opponent's keeper something about his mother's heritage (the ref didn't 
    hear it).  The keeper, back at the net, takes exception and hurls the ball 
    at the head of this player.
    
    You blow your whistle.  What's the call and restart?
    
    Later, the Keeper's fullback, standing inside the penalty area, confirm's 
    the forward's observation and the keeper let's him have it too in the
    head with the ball.
    
    You blow the whistle again.  What's the call and restart?
    
    
    
    Have fun.....

	Scenario 1

	Penalty Kick -- keeper was standing inside the penalty area when
	he threw the ball.

	Scenario 2

	IFK, not a DFK, because it's misconduct directed at a 
	teamate, not an opponent.
    

    Hi Jeff,
    
    As -1, penalty kick for first one (great question with offender inside
    box and other outside) but also red card for violent conduct.
    
    As -1 indirect free kick from where the keeper was but even for first
    offence it's a red card for violent conduct.
    
    Peter

    Thanks for the last two responses. YES you both are correct!
    
    The neat part is the penalty happened when the keeper threw the ball
    (not whether it hit the player or not). Therefore, the offense is
    deemed to have happened at the point of the throw!  Against an opponent
    it's a penalty kick; against a teammate it's an IFK for the other team.
    
    I'll try to think of a few more good ones to post.  In the meantime....
    Any other good questions and/or stories out there??
    
    			Jeff

    
    What EXACTLY is the rule on passing the ball back to the keeper?  [I've
    always thought it's a pretty dumb rule...]
    
    I, Mr. Sweeper, was penalised by an indirect free-kick in the penalty
    area.  This was because I passed the ball back to my keeper, I didn't
    use my foot!!!  The rule is...
    
    
    Cheers,
    Ian

    
    Ian, I believe its something like you're not allowed to deliberately
    pass the ball back to your keeper, other than with a "non-contrived"
    header (ie. you can head it back as long as you didn't chip the ball
    up yourself & head it back). I've had problems where referees rule that
    an accidental pass back was still an IFK - when the law first came out
    any sort of pass back, accidental or not, was getting penalised.
    
    	In you case, you say you didn't use you're foot & as you never use
    you're head (alledgedly 8-), it should have been a penalty for using
    your hand! 8-) .....or did you deliberately pass it back with your
    backside?
    
    JBG 

You can use your knee, shin, chest or anything other than your foot to pass
back to the keeper and he's should be allowed to pick the ball up.  Plus
the deliberate & contrived come into play.

Had a good goal in my match yesterday,  defender tackles our strker, ball
going back to the keeper who swipes at it, misses & the ball trickles in
the goal not even reaching the net!!!  We won 5-0 as well.

    Anybody know the exact rule in the following situation:
    
    (this is true, it happen in one of the games of the Copa Libertadores,
    on Friday evening).
    
    One of the goalies had to go to the bathroom (it must have been
    serious).  The ref STOPS the game.  The goalie runs out of the field,
    goes toward the locker room.  Players from the opposing team and fans
    are wondering what is going on.  When one of the opposing players asks
    the ref, he smiles when the ref gives him the answer. Goalie returns in
    a few minutes and back to the field.  Game resumes.
    
    I wonder which FIFA rule did the ref applied.
    
    Carlos

    Hey Carlos how ya' doin?  
    
    I saw the same game televised on Univision yesterday -- I don't
    understand Spanish but when I saw the desperate run of the goalkeeper
    to the referee, followed by a quick dash towards the touchline I
    knew immediately where he was going -- I mean he had that look like "..oh
    sphicter don't fail me now!" :^>
    
    Interesting situation.  There wasn't any injury, there was no
    miscounduct, why would the referee allow play to be stopped?  Why
    didn't he just have a field player assume the goalkeeper position, or
    have a substitute sent in?  
    
    With all the feigning that already goes on in the game for the sole
    purpose of wasting time, can you image players now requesting a stoppage
    in play so they can take a leak, or ...whatever.:^) 
    
    	FLASH ---- FLASH---- FLASH---- FLASH---- FLASH---- FLASH
    
    		NEW CHECK-IN PROCEDURE DETAILED BY FIFA.  
    	Referees must check players passes, boots, shinguards, and
    	they are now required to ask the players if they've gone to the
    	toilet before arriving on the field of play.
    
    What an ugly thought!

>    
>    (this is true, it happen in one of the games of the Copa Libertadores,
>    on Friday evening).
>

Oooooppps, a mistake.  The incident happen in the Mexican League NOT in the
Copa Libertadores.
---------
Hi Rich,

Feeling better?

>    Interesting situation.  There wasn't any injury, there was no
>    miscounduct, why would the referee allow play to be stopped?  Why
>    didn't he just have a field player assume the goalkeeper position, or
>    have a substitute sent in?

That's what I thought it should occur. However, if I was the ref, I would be
on the ground laughing so hard that I would have to STOP the game so that I
can recuparate.

Carlos

    
    RE: The Pass Back
    
    I controlled the ball with my belly button, just a bit lower than my
    chest, and the keeper picked it up.  Fortunately we blocked their
    attempt on goal.
    
    I (eventually) managed to get an explanation from the ref., who stated
    that head and chest ONLY were ok for a passback, and implied that they
    were specifically stated in the rulebook.
    
    Guys, dig out your rulebooks please...
    
    Incidentally, we scored first, but lost again (5-1).
    
    Ian

    Ian,
    
    LAW XII
    
    5 When playing as a goalkeeper and within his own penalty area:-
    
    ..
    
    (c) touches the ball with his hands after it has been deliberately
    kicked to him by a team-mate, 
    
    ..
    
    shall be penalized by the award of an indirect free kick to be taken by
    the opposing side from the place where the infringement occurred,
    subject to the over-riding conditions imposed in LAW XII (if free kick
    in 6 yard box).
    
    An INTERNATIONAL BOARD DECISION then says:
    
    Subject to the terms of LAW XII, a player may pass the ball to his own
    goalkeeper using his head or chest or knee, etc. If, however, in the
    opinion of the Referee, a player uses a trick in order to circumvent
    article 5(c) of Law XII the player will be guilty of ungentlemanly
    conduct and will be punished under the terms of LAW XII; that is to
    say, the player will be cautioned and shown the yellow card and an
    indirect free kick will be awarded to the opposing team from the place
    where the player committed the offence.
    	In such circumstances, it is irrelevent wheter the goalkeeper
    subsequently touches the ball with his hands or not. The offence is
    committed by the player in attempting to circumvent both the text and
    the spirit of LAW XII.
    
    

    I agree, your belly button stop should have been OK (Of course sometimes 
    my foot's in my mouth, so if yours was in your belly at the time ... ;^)
    
    Regarding "Nature's call" I suppose I'd wait until a stoppage of play, then
    let the player leave to "attend to their equipment".  His team would
    play one man down (they could put another person in net). Then I'd restart
    based on how play had stopped.  When the keeper wanted to come back,
    he'd have to wait until another stoppage and be signalled on by me and
    switch with the current keeper to go back into the net.
    
    Of course us chaps in the US can grab a tree pretty quickly. It'd all
    take less than "three shakes of a lambs tail" (or something like that!)
    
    Regards,
    				Jeff

    My gosh, it's been over three months and no one has entered a reply
    about the laws or ref's.  Is there no one with an interesting story or 
    question?  Should we open a new note on the Best and/or worse ref'd
    matches?  How can we get more interest in this topic so we can
    have some good discussions.  I learn alot from the questions and
    observations made about matches here.
    
    Have a great summer....
    					Jeff

    I just got word that our league is adding/changing to 6 on 6 for it's
    under 17 teams...
    
    No offsides, small field, etc.  Anyone have experience refereeing the
    "Big kids" playing 6 on 6.  I'd expect its a much more rough and tumble
    match.  Certainly quicker.  I bet that because the kids don't get as
    tired that there is a lot more action to watch (and keep under
    control!)
    
    Regards,
    				Jeff

    Hi Jeff,
    
    It's much easier to ref with the smaller pitch and the no offside
    rule (although some play with an offside line drawn at the edge of the
    penalty box).
    
    It's not as tiring as the matches are a lot shorter and you don't have
    to run as far.
    
    There tends to be less moaning as everyone wants to get on with game and 
    as all players are within a single kick of the play they have got better
    things to do.
    
    Regards
    
    Peter
    
    
    
    

Up here in Scotland kids footie is in the process of moving all age groups
up to U-13 to 7-a-side using half a pitch and smaller goals.  These games
are also 'non-competitive' is that there is no league table although all
team play each other home & away.

They certainly keep the kids interested a lot better due to the constant
action plus it encourages them to pass rather than welly the ball as far
up the pitch as possible.

    Jeff,
    
    Here in Mass. with the infamous MIAA rules restricting a player's
    activities in sports outside of the school team, 6v6 makes sense for
    the older kids.  It is a pure transition game, with their skills under
    a microscope.  Many players do not play club/town ball during the HS
    season because they can't practice with that team.  6v6 gives them a
    chance to romp and stomp on a Sunday afternoon.  No standings, no
    trophies, just a chance to play.
    
    Is this BAYS that is making this change?
    
    > I'd expect its a much more rough and tumble match.  Certainly quicker.  
    > I bet that because the kids don't get as tired that there is a lot 
    > more action to watch (and keep under control!)
    
    Surprisingly, 6v6 is a more tiring game since play is in continuous
    transition, defend-attack-defend... Up here in Nashoba Valley, we have
    been playing Fall 6v6 for the older teams since '89.  The major change
    we found we had to make was to shorten the halves to 30 minutes,
    instead of their usual 40 or 45.  In a mismatch, we found that the
    majority of the goals were scored in the waning moments when the
    exhaustion factor took over. Then, too, the frustration factor took
    over and game control became a problem.  (Also, at $2 over the age, 
    refs aren't paid enough for 80 minutes of chasing 16 y.o. players).
    
    The area per player is similar to a full-sized field.  The "standard"
    6v6 pitch is placed cross-field on a full pitch.  Hence, it usually
    runs 65 yds x 40 yds.  You may find some as small as 50 x 35 or as
    large as 80 x 50.  The 6v6 nets are usually 6.5 ft. x 4 yds. although,
    again, you will find variety.
    
    As a side note, at the recent US Youth Soccer Association AGM it was 
    voted to forbid sanctioned play at U10 for sides larger than 8v8. MYSA
    de-certified 11v11 U10 play several years ago.  As a recreational or
    training game there is nothing better than small-sided play. (IMHO)
    Many towns are going to 3v3 or 4v4 micro-soccer for the younger ages.
    Tony Waiters visited Acton about 18 months ago.  Did the club institute
    anything of that sort?
    
    -nat (referee and player - dr. jekyll and mr. hyde)

    Acton, Mass. now has 3v3 for its 5 yr olds. (no keeper, and coachs do the
    ref'ing)  It's working out well.
    
    I look forward to seeing how the 6v6 for older kids works out. (yes,
    it's BAYS league, but the fall season is not for standings so it's more of a
    fun time)  One key will be how big they make the field.  As far as I
    know the only "offsides" type situation is that goal kicks and keeper
    throws/punts can't go over the middle line in the air. (i.e. the ball must
    hit the ground or a player before going over the half way line).
    
    Regards,
    		Jeff

    It looks like FIFA will ban defenders heading the ball into their 
    goalkeepers hands. This should be ratified at their next meeting in
    March. Also on the agenda are sudden-death instead of penalty
    competitions and kick-ins instead of throw-ins....
    
    Ray....

    
    Instead of the backpass rule, I'd prefer to see FIFA introduce a rule
    which doesn't allow a team to pass the ball backwards over the halfway
    line, as in basketball.  Also, FIFA should instruct referees to enforce
    the 4 steps rule, or do away with it completely.
    
    Ian

Why abolish the throw in - it now means if you make a saving tackle and the 
ball goes into touch you're effectively penalised as if you'd kicked the guy 
into touch!

And as for banning heading to the keeper - what happens if a corner is headed 
into the air by a defender? Keeper can't catch it cos the ref thinks the 
defender did it deliberately?

Any chance of FIFA keeping quiet for a year? Thought not.

grahame

    I just ref'd my first GU17 and BU17 6v6 match!  I've done lots of 11v11
    at that age, and lots of youngsters at 6v6.  But this match with big
    kids on a little field was a real "kick!"
    
    First, the ball turns real fast, and the action is all around the
    pitch. (Sort of a frenzy).
    
    Second, forget about the diagonal and being in proper position to see
    everything that goes on.  I found out (the hard way) that you can't
    really be in the middle of the field most of the time!  After a while, I
    found myself mainly on the sidelines (sort of a third linesman!!)
    
    
    Best Regards,
    			Jeff

    Did anyone else see the clip on TV last night.  Seems that a player
    said something to the ref and the ref popped him in the face with his
    fist!  They player then gave the ref a side swinging kick with his leg
    (a fairly weak kick) and then a bunch of players came running out AND
    HELD THE REF as the player tried to back away from the fight.
    
    The commentators said that the ref is under investigation.  Any Refs
    out there ever feel like popping a player?  (vice versa?).
    

    I see from the paper that the FA are sending all of the Premiership
    Referees on a course this weekend for stress management. Apparently,
    the abuse they receive from crowds and handling temperamental players
    is all too much for the little loves. Wonder what Jack Taylor and Clive
    Thomas make of all this. 

            There was and article (front page) of the Boston Globe noting that
    parents and coaches are getting more and more "rough" on refs in the
    States.  It's really bad when they gang up on young refs just starting
    out.  It seems that something like over 40% of first time refs don't go 
    a second season. 

    As a "long time" ref in my town (6 years), I've seen the escalation of
    hostilities as American parents "get the hang of it" and coaches learn
    how to coach the "when the ref isn't looking" part of soccer...

    I've enjoyed this Fall season partly because it's our non-league
    standings season (vs the Spring), and partly due to my having more girl
    matches this year.  But the bar is getting raised each year as it
    relates to roughness on and off the pitch!

    (On soapbox)
    I think society in general is getting far too serious about themselves,
    be it religion, nationalism, race or football!  We need to have some
    places where we can go and play just for the sake of having fun.  For
    every "bad" experience I have, I try to focus on and remember longest,
    the times when I hear young kids "giggling" over missing the ball,
    saying "I'm sorry" when they accidentally bump into a member of the other
    team, and parents celebrating the end of a season will lots of cake and
    praise for the kids regardless of the "record" or scores.
    (Off soapbox)
    
    Regards,
    			Jeff

Hi Jeff,
Should we annex VMSZOO::OFFICIALS for the USA$YOUTH$SOCCER Notes file? :-)

re: Globe article
I would like to see the Globe follow-up on the reported incident.  What punishments will 
be meted out?

In the Nashoba Valley Youth Soccer League, a number of coaches have received suspensions 
for referee harassment.  This is true even if the harassment came from supporters of that 
coach's team, as the coach is held responsible for their behavior.  Speaking as a 
director of the New England Over-the-Hill Soccer League, we have suspended dozens of 
individuals (including one last night) and thrown out at least two teams in the last 6 
years for incidents involving referee harassment or assault.

As a coach and player I have seen a number of bad referees, but I have tried to look at 
the ref as I would look at the field.  Some days you get a good pitch and some days it's 
a rough pitch.  If I have a problem with a field, I call the local Parks Dept.  If I have 
complaints about a referee I take it up with the assigner or the referee association.

Lord knows that no referee has ever called a perfect game.  I hope that I learn something 
every game.  Positioning, foul recognition, game control, use of advantage, time 
management, etc., are very advanced concepts.  To expect a 14-year old kid to handle a 
MAPLE U12 match (even girls) without error is unreasonable.  To harass him unmercifully 
at the end of a *meaningless* game is unconscionable.

I would hope that MAPLE will suspend that team, replacing it with one of the many teams 
on the waiting list.  Maybe some coaches and parents would finally get the message that 
referee abuse will not be tolerated.  Given the number of coaches sent off during the 
MAPLE Spring season, it is a message that needs to be sent.

-nat (referee and player - dr. jekyll and mr. hyde)

    OK rule-freaks - what's the ruling on this situation which happened at 
    the match I was at on Saturday ?
    
    Full-back takes a goal kick, rolls the ball to the keeper standing
    outside the penalty area, keeper dribbles the ball back into the area
    and picks it up. Referee blows up and awards an indirect free-kick to
    the other team at the point the keeper picked up the ball.
    
    So was the ref the fatherless self-abuser the majority of the crowd
    spent the rest of the game accusing him of being, or was he right ? 
    Or doesn't anyone give a toss what happened at a Brentford v Burnley
    game ? (oh what a giveaway!)
    
    Jim
    

    Could have been for timewasting! What was the score? and What was the
    time on the clock?
    
    			Stretch.

    From memory,
    
    When the keeper has the ball outside the area he is as any other player
    i.e. he can't pass the ball back to the keeper to touch with his hand
    inside the area. 
    
    Peter

    IMHO
    
    The Ref was correct!  The indirect is from where the keeper picked it up.
    
    There is one exception to this rule.  If a player kicks the ball up in
    the air to another one who heads it to the keeper in an effort to
    circumvent the rules (you see a head ball back to the keeper is NOT a
    rule infraction), then, the ref can still blow the whistle and give an
    indirect as if the kickback rule had been broken.  Only in this case,
    the spirit of the laws was broken at the time of the first kick in the
    air to the second player.  In that case the indirect would be given
    when the ball was first kicked and not where the keeper caught the ball
    from the header...  (Oh what a complicated game this is!)
    
    Regards,
    			Jeff

The tragedy (stupidity?) of this is that the rule was brought in as a way of 
stopping timewasting. If a team is taking a short goalkick to the keeper, 
they're invariably trying to speed the game up . . .

g

    Interesting...
    
    1.  The keeper was outside the penalty area - so he was a field player
    	at that time.  Can't be a pass back then, can it?
    
    2.  If a ball had been played by the other side to the same area and
    	the keeper had played it with his feet, dribbling it into the area and
    	then picking it up, it would have been acceptable - correct?  
    
    3.  If there was no obvious attempt at time-wasting, then play-on. 
    	Nowhere in the book does it say that the referee is supposed to throw
    	out common sense.  
    
    Unless one referees by the book - then they should be shot at sight.
    
    Art
    
    
    

    Art,
    
    Your point 1, 'keeper... was a field player' says that it MUST be a
    backpass, doesn't it?
    
    Out of interest a report of the UK Fottball Association has said that
    the problem with referees is with those who are too lenient with the
    yellow cards, not those who go by the book.
    
    I suggest that we give up as all hope is now lost.
    
    Peter

    Art,
    >>  Nowhere in the book does it say that the referee is supposed to
    throw out common sense.
    
     Come to Elm Park someday!   
    
    >>Unless one referees by the book - then they should be shot on sight
    
      No one is likely to disagree about that option in this conference.
    
    		
    
    			Stretch.

    If the other team kicked it to him then it was NOT kicked back to him
    by a teammate (i.e. no foul).
    
    The whole idea of this rule was to keep keeper from kicking the ball around
    wasting time, and when challenged, picking up the ball.
    
    I'd say that if the keeper takes a pass from a teammate outside the
    box, and then dribbles into the box, and when challenged picks up the
    ball, he's doing the same time wasting as if he was in the box when it
    was first kicked to him.
    
    I do NOT ref by the book.  However, both teams do deserve to have calls
    made which are consistant and fair.  In the case of this particular
    rule, my discretion mostly centers around if the kick back was
    intentional or not(i.e. if a player swings at the ball and shanks it so that
    it goes back to the keeper by accident).  Teams are OK with me saying
    "keep playing" when an accident happens.  But if it's deliberately kicked 
    back and the keeper immediately picks it up and punts it, it is an 
    infraction.  The rule does NOT say its an infraction only if the keeper 
    plays with it for awhile and then picks it up.
    
    Sorry, I know why the rule was put in, but it is now a rule.  Tell FIFA
    to change the rule!!  Every team should expect uniform compliance with
    the rules.  What if a ball hits me and goes into the goal.  The rule
    says it's a goal.  Would you want me to say "Sorry fellas, I shouldn't
    have been there so we just wont count this one?"  (Or do I now try to
    figure out if I wasn't there would it have go in anyway?  Or could the
    keeper have lunged and made the save? Or was there another attacker in
    position to head it in? etc etc
    
    I feel as a ref I have plenty of chances to use good judgement.  But I
    can't agree that clear violations should go unacknowledged.  If the
    score is 30 to 0, do I ignore it if the team thats behind has 12 men on the
    field?  On the other hand, I can give a bit of a break if there is a
    question of if it's a corner kick or goal kick if its not very clear
    who kicked it last.
    
    Perhaps my stand will be unpopular.  But I'd ask you to separate the
    ref's from the laws.  We do NOT make them, we have to enforce them.  I
    have, in the past, added time or even given an indirect kick for time
    wasting.  I do not agree with the new law.  I'd have left things as
    they were and asked ref's to be more active in enforcing sportsmanship
    as it relates to wasting time.
    
    Regards,
    			Jeff

    Being an occasional referee, the lunchtime discussion recently turned
    to a foul committed by (I think) Beresford on McManaman in the recent
    excellent Newcastle/Liverpool game, and I was asked to give a judgement
    on the correctness of the decision. I wasn't sure - can anyone help?:
    McManaman's momentum carried him behind the goal-line, i.e. off the
    field of play, though the ball, which he'd previously had in his
    possession, stayed in play. Beresford was committed to a tackle, which
    was, in most people's view, a foul, and he took McM's legs from under
    him, off the field of play. Had he been inside the bye-line it would
    have been a penalty. As it was, I felt that all that could be given was
    play-on, and if the tackle warranted it, give Beresford a yellow card
    at the next stoppage of play. Most people in the discussion felt this
    was unfair, but if you did penalize Beresford in any way, what could
    you give? (because it occurred out-of-play). In the event, the ref 
    simply played on, and ignored the whole thing. 
    What does the panel think?
    Ta.
    DaveT                          

    OK Dave I will be first to reply.
    
    After thinking about this again, this is my views:
    
    1. If McManaman was in control of the ball (even if he was off the
    field of play) then I say a penalty as the ball was in the box.
    
    2. If McManaman was not in control of the ball, then I say a
    foul/yellow card awarded and a "bounce ball" to resume the game.
    
    William

    Dave T 
    
    It was a foul by a Newcastle player on a Liverpool Player so I
    definitely think Beresford should have been sent off (:==:)
    
    Regards
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks

    Thanks, Andrew. It's the infamous Maurice Stuart that's been badgering
    me for an answer, so I'll pass this clear, unbiased judgement on to
    him (though I'm not sure that GAsh would agree with you!).
    Have fun in Atlanta.
    dt

Hi Dave,

Dobn't let Stuart wind up you up - he knows b*-all about football but he loves 
a good argument(maybe he should be in this conference?!). 

fwiw, I agree with you - it would definitely have been a pen at Anfield.

g

It matters not where the ball is, was, or ends up, a foul is 
declared at the point of the infringement. So if player A was illegally 
tackled outside of the penalty area (in this case over the goal line) 
then that is where the decision to restart is made.  Since it was 
outside of the penalty area, it cannot be a penalty.  Before I give the 
answer would anyone like to hazard a guess as to how and where the game 
should be restarted? 

Gerry

Hi Gerry!

How about: a dropped-ball at the nearest point to the incident?

grahame

    Hi Gerry,
    
    	I bet we went to the same Referee refresher course where The Answer
    was given as part of a handout of questions.... (so I'll refrain from
    answering)
    
    				Jeff
    
    
    	As an add'l "Think about", Can a keeper throw the ball the length
    of the field and score a goal without anyone touching the ball?

    go on Gerry, give us the answer... (drop ball was my thought too).
    DaveT

    Ah, maybe it is a drop ball (Remember, I agreed not to tell).  But
    whether it is or isn't, is the restart at the point on the pitch closest 
    to the foul, or where the ball was when the whistle was blown?!!!  
    (Just think of all the "junk" a ref has to remember...)
    
    Regards,
    				Jeff
    
    P.S. Ref'd my first two matches of the season on Sat.  A really great
    time was had by all.  Here in the states very few parents have played.
    My BU11 match had lots of first time 11v11 people watching.  I had fun
    answering questions at half time.  My BU14 match was in a wind storm so
    you can imagine the fun that added.

Woops - sorry - I've not been in here for a while.  The answer is drop 
ball at the spot where the ball was when play was stopped (or on the 
edge of the six-yard box if it was inside). That's the general rule for 
any stoppage off the field of play.

To answer the one about a goalie throwing it the length of the field and 
into the goal - yes, it's a goal - some throw though!!

Gerry

    Since this topic has been pretty quiet lately, I thought I'd try to get
    things moving....
    
    As a result of seeing FIFA making such recent "Important" rules changes as
    disallowing throw-ins to the keeper, I thought we could suggest more
    meaningful changes.
    
    If you could change any one law, what would it be and how would you
    change it?  Everything is up for grabs (e.g. number of players, size of
    field or goal, tie breakers, cumulative counting of infractions,
    instant replay cameras, etc.)  What do you think would have a positive 
    and profound impact on the game.
    
    Here's your chance to tell FIFA and company how the game really should be
    played!

>                         -< What would you change?!! >-

	1) Get rid of the offsite rule... This would instantly stop half
	   the arguing that goes on after any game...

	2) Replace current Yellow cards with 5 (or 10) minutes back to
	   the bench (second bookable offense still yielding a complete
	   ban as in a current Red...)

	3) As an extension to rule #2, for a Yellow card ban, I would
	   leave it up to the opposing team's captain to choose which
	   player he wants out (the culprit or any other player currently
	   on the field...). In case of a red card, the culprit gets
	   out and you get again a choice of whoever else you want out
	   for 5 minutes...

							.Andre.

    um, the goalie might get sent off quite a lot mightn't he? 
    
    but it is a good joke :-)
    
    ..Kevin..

    
    One for the FA...
    
    If a team finished third in the league and it's more than 10 points
    clear of the fourth placed team then no playoffs, they just go up as
    well.
    
    One for FIFA...
    
    If a keeper gets sent off for bringing down a player then the opposing 
    team gets a penalty, whether it was inside or outside the box.
    
    Alen.

  As I said before I like the sin bin idea. With a couple of players
  from each side in the sin bin then more goals could come and the game
  will fairly rapidly be cleaned up with dirty players being a liability
  to the club rather than an asset as they are today.

  Players like Vinny Jones would not be too useful if for 10 minutes
  every game they are off the pitch.

  The other one from rugby that would work well is the ability of the
  ref to move a freekick 10 yrds up the pitch if the offending team
  object or prevent the kick being taken. This would make the game a lot
  better. 

  Rgds, Steve


Draw a line half way between the half way line and the goal 
( maybe further back even ) and only have off-side between this line 
and the goal. Spreads play out as defenders have to cover strikers 
futher back when the ball is at the other end of the pitch. Stops 
defenders pushing up to the half way line and thus having too many 
players in mid-field.

Peter

Re -.1

I like that idea.

Steve

    Re -2
    
    Not bad, but don't you think this would encourage long ball  play, with
    peeps just standing on the line waiting for the ball to be hoofed up to
    them?
    
    Alen

>peeps just standing on the line waiting for the ball to be hoofed up 
>to them?

I don't think so( well no more so than currently ) . IMO The fact 
that there would be more room in mid-field would mean the opposite. 
Players would be encouraged to run further with the ball. The onus 
would be on defenders to come and get the ball rather that letting 
the opposition get within shooting distance of the goal.
Actually the fact that the distance between the line ,where you're 
off side, and the goal is reduced would mean that there is less space 
into which you could hit a long ball. Currently the ball can be hit 
long and an attacker runs for it from the half way line. If the 
defense plays deeper maybe the area into which you could hit a long 
ball is reduced. I don't know , I think it would have to be put into 
practice before you'd really know.

    
    They tried a similar idea a few years ago in the illfated "Dryburgh"
    cup.  A line was drawn which merely extended the 18 yrd line from the
    normal "corner of the box" to the touch line...so offside could only
    happen in the last 18 yrds of the pitch.  Resulted in more goals as I
    recall....but teams looked REALLY stretched as defenders had to stay
    back and mark opposition players lurking well into their half. It
    created oodles of space though....none of this "bunching up" tactic
    which turns games into dour midfield battles with constant stoppages
    for fouls and offsides.
    
    Trevor

    It's interesting that the idea of an "offsides line" is being
    discussed.  In the US in 1967, the NPSL (the predecessor to the North 
    American Soccer League) had an offsides line 35 yards from goal.  They
    also gave 6 points for a win, 3 for a tie, and 1 point for each goal up
    to a maximum of 3. 

re : -1
There's another point.

Should teams be rewarded for scoring goals i.e. should a 1-0 win 
against a team be counted the same as a 6-0 win by different 
opposition against the same team. Maybe an extra point for every 2 
goals scored and -1 for every 2 goals conceeded ?

Peter

1)Video Camera's evidence when required by the Ref
2)5 yd penalty for descent after offence.


that should do it.

Mad

Advantage as in rugby.

If no advantage accrues the play can be brought back.

    Make professional fouls a red card offense even if the attacking
    player wasn't free on goal.
    
    How about, if two players on the same side are caught arguing, tie
    their legs together and make them play the rest of the match as if it
    were a 3 legged race?
    
    Alen

or even,

 Anyone committing a foul, has to wear lead weights, like a kind of handicap, so 
2 stone for a foul, 4 stone for another foul, lead diving boots for a yellow 
card.

Separate the men from the boys


Mad

    Any player found 'stamping' on another player has to wear plimsoles for
    the rest of the season (or until they can learn to play nicely with the
    big boys!).
    
    Alen.