Conference trucks::football;1

    
    A Republic of Ireland XI missing many first choice players were held to
    a draw yesterday v Man United in the Matt Busby testimonial.
    
    A Paul Parker own goal gave Ireland the lead and Bryan Robson equalised
    with 4 minutes left.
    
    Gary.

    
    
    	Hungary 1 Ireland 2
    
    Live commentary on Century Radio and I managed to tidy my bedroom at
    the same time.  Needless to say RTE radio and TV ignored the game
    despite the fact that a friendly v Morocco a year ago had higher
    viewing figures than both the All Ireland finals.  Well they couldn't
    embarrass that shower 2 years in a row.
    
    The first half was pretty nondescript with Hungary content to hit on
    the break and the best chances falling to Kelly and Keane.  Roy Keane
    really impressed with Kelly also playing well.  Phelan appeared to
    beinvolved a lot too which augurs well for the future.  Yet another
    good Irish performance but unfortunately no goals.
    
    14 minutes intop the second half disaster struck.  Detari's shot was
    saved by Bonner but he let the ball run free and Kovacs (easily the
    most impressive of the Magyars) finished it to the net.  Bonner held
    his head in his hands but he can be forgiven for a rare mistake in
    Irish colours.  Needless to say the team didn't captilulate.  Ireland
    roared forward from the kick off, won a corner.  Sheedy to Houghton,
    back to Sheedy, crossed into the box and David Kelly heads home a
    splendid equaliser.  60 seconds after going behind we were level.
    Jack immediately substitued Kelly with Aldo.  He seemed to have done
    enough for inclusion in Poznan next month.
    
    Hungary were now coming under increasing pressure and the second goal
    arrived 7 minutes later.  sheedy struck the bar and would you believe
    it Aldo scored from the rebound.  Hungary gave up after that which is
    really unforgivable and we failed to add to our total however a 2-1
    victory was very very satisfactory.
    
    Bonner had one of his rare bad nights, Irwin and Phelan impressed
    coming forward but had little to do defensively.  McCarthy and O'Leary
    hardly got a mention.  Keane impressed in midfield and Hoguhton and
    Sheedy alsoplayed well. sheridan went off apparently injured and was
    replaced by McLoughlin.  Quinn had a bad night and was pulled for a
    free every time he jumped for a ball.  Kelly impressed up front and
    scored his 7th goal in 11 games.  Aldo then scored his 7th in 40 games
    (and his first against anyway decent opposition) so he may yet play in
    Poznan.
    
    All in all a very satisfactory night.  now if only we can repeat this
    in Poznan next month.
    
    Gary.

    Gary,
    thanks for the report on last nights game as I've seen virtually no
    news other than the result either from BBC or the national press.
    The Independant gave a very brief four or five line comment tagged 
    on to lengthy reports on the other friendly and competitive games. 
    I sat through almost two hours of BBC sport last night hoping to get a
    glimpse of the goals but was disappointed ( totally p___ed off to be
    honest) when all they could manage was the result - and it would seem
    they got the scorers wrong. They reported Sheedy as being on target.
    Anyway it seems like a good result. Roll on Poland.
    
    Regards and Thanks 
    Tom Shaughnessy  (Reading - ex Galway) 

    Can we have Martin's comments on the latest strike by TGA.
    
    Shane

    
    Re -2,
    
    Actually Tom the BBC may yet be correct about Sheedy.  He's claiming
    the goal although so is TGA.  Apparently Sheedy thinks the ball was
    over the line before TGA got to it.  Century gave it to TGA.
    
    Re -1, Martin is in Crete at the moment.  Assuming the goal is credited
    to TGA I'll organise a collection to try and get him to stay there.
    Failing that this conference will have to be writelocked when he
    returns.  
    
    TGA has proved himself to be a lethal striker and rarely misses from 6
    inches when the keeper is out of goal. 
    
    
    Gary.

    Report in the Irish Press about THE goal. quote - Irelands winning goal
    in 69 minutes was a perfect piece of football set up by Houghton. His 
    cross from the right delicately nodded on by Quinn for Sheedy to rifle
    the ball onto the underside of the bar. Immediately the referee pointed
    to the middle spot but Aldo was taking no chances (remember '66) and
    just to be sure poked the ball into the net. But later he agreed with
    the Greek ref that Sheedy be credited with his 7th goal in 39 matches
    
    Stephen
     

    
    
    Typical bl**dy Aldridge - too cr*p (am I allowed to say that Gary ?) to
    score his owns goals, so he has to try and steal them from talented
    players like Sheedy.
    
    Paul

    Re .5,
    
    BBC World Service credited the goal to Sheedy but as they have already
    been found guilty of bias towards Everton (see my reply in the
    Liverpool note) we can discount that and await the evidence on
    TV - can the moderators organise a panel to review this life or
    death matter?
    
    Checking quickly through the DIGITAL telephone directory I do not
    see an office listed in Crete so we may be safe for another 10 days.
    Of course if he takes a day trip to Greece or Cyprus and manages to
    get back on the Net then ...
    
    Isn't there a NOTES NEXT_NOTE/AUTHOR NES MARTIN function and if not why
    not??
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks
    

    
    The plot thickens.  Jack credits Aldo with the goal.  Anyone care to
    phone Crete and see what Martin thinks. :-)  I wonder what's the Greek
    for TGA.
    
    For me it has to be Sheedy's goal because had it not corossed the line
    Aldo would probably have put it wide.
    
    Highlights anyway on RTE tomorrow.
    
    Gary.

    
    I saw the highlights of the Hungary game and I'm still no clearer on
    who scored our winner.  
    
    It looked an impressive performance with Keane, Phelan and Kelly all
    doing very well.  houghton looked very impressive and appears to be
    back to his best.
    
    We need a repeat performance in Poznan.
    
    Gary. 

    The goal has been officially credited to TGA. Then that's the only way
    his international goalscoring tally gets a boost.
    
    Wonder if he can claim the first....?

    
    What could be worse than your favourite team signing Vinny Jones?
    
    
    
    
    Vinny declaring himself for Ireland.  Apparently his maternal
    grandmother is Irish (isn't everyone's) and Vinny wants to play for us. 
    I don't think he's much chance as we have one of the best midfields in
    Europe.  
    
    Gary.

    Sounds like a Charlton type of player though. I can imagine him
    dropping Sheedy or Houghton for a bit more 'grit' in midfield.

    >>    I don't think he's much chance as we have one of the best midfields in
    >> 	  Europe.  
    
    Ah, c'mon, Gary... cool down... and pray that one of the best
    midfields in Europe make it Sweden...
    
    8-)
    �JF?

    
    
    ..and I thought Ireland often plays without midfield because of the long
    ball play :-)
                                                                
    no offense meant
    G�nter

    
    Put it this way. Its the only way Vinny will play for a national
    team.
    
    JN.

    
    Re .14, I am JF praying hard.  :-)
    
    As for our midfield it's the most important part of the team.  McGrath
    and Townsend are class players.  Houghton and Sheedy are also very good
    International players.  How many sides would leave out Ronnie Whelan
    and Roy Keane?
    
    Given Graham Taylor's recent selections maybe Vinnie would be better
    off staying English.
    
    Gary.

    
    	As a matter of academic interest how many of the current
    	English test cricket team were born in England ??
    
    	Doug.

    Or indeed the football team!
    
    Peter

    
    Re players born in Ireland,
    
    Of the current squad
    
    Bonner, Irwin, Staunton, Moran, Whelan, Keane & Quinn.  O'Leary was
    born in London but grew up in Dublin.
    
    Most of the rest of the squad qualify under the parentage rule with I
    think Aldridge, Cascarino, townsend and Houghton being the exceptions.
    
    As I've said in here a few times before the Irish have fled to every
    corner of the world and thousands still take the boat to England. 
    Their children in many cases claim to be Irish and are perfectly
    entitled to play for Ireland.
    
    Gary.

I agree with gary especially about the parentage rule. I was born in London
but I declare myself as an Irish Citizen due to my parents both being Irish & the
fact that I've been living in this wonderful, fabulous country where the crack
is mighty..for the last 11 years.

Now If only I could perfect my soccer skills.... who knowns, I colud be playing
in Landsdown one of these days.... 8-)


Mick

    
    
    Re Gary's note on parentage, Ireland is by no means the only country to 
    benefit from new found citizens. 
    
    A non-football example here in Spain :
    
    The only Spanish athlete to win a medal in the recent world athletics 
    championships in Japan was a lady called :
    
    		Sandra Myers
    
    She came on holidays to Spain in 1986, at a low point in her career, 
    stayed, married her coach (who is Spanish), took out Spanish 
    citizenship, and her career took off again. Her case is a non cynical 
    example of how it should work. Zola Budd's case before the 1984 
    Olympics is an example of how it shouldn't work.
    
    Coming back to football, former Real Madrid and Spain star Alfredo Di 
    Stefano, recently voted best European (I think) footballer of all time, 
    was born, bred, fed, and played a good deal of his football career in 
    Argentina, before coming to Spain. He took out Spanish nationality 
    based on a reciprocal citizenship agreement between Spain and 
    Argentina. under parentage or grand parentage rules he would have been 
    able to declare for Italy. By the same token, who can tell me how many 
    native Uruguayans won world cup medals with Italy in the 1930's ??
    
    Saludos, Tom
    
    Coming back to Sandra Myers, her father has Irish connections, so if 
    she has footballing sons, they will be eligible to play for Spain, 
    Ireland, USA, and Italy (her mother has Italian roots)

    
    Re -1, And Alfredo di Stefano also played for Colombia.
    
    Gary.

    Where was John Barnes born??
    
    If Ireland win the next two games are they definitely through?
    
    I was talking to to a bloke from Sweden lately and he reckoned
    it's not a great country to visit anyway so maybe we'd be better off
    waiting for the U.S. in 1994 where we should be able to avail of
    favourable seedings.
    
    Paul

    
    >Where was John Barnes born?
    
    The West of England (very west of England Jamaica)
    
    >If Ireland win the next two games are they definitely through?
    
    Nope we still need Poland (or Turkey) to take a point from England.
    Even then we need goal difference.  It won't be easy.
    
    Gary. 

    The big games....
    
    Poland V Ireland .....England V Turkey
    
    are but a week away. with England (presumably) beating the Turks,
    an Ireland or Polish defeat will knock one of thos teams out of
    the running. Makes you realise NOW how jammy Lee Dixons goal against
    Ireland at Wembley was. Thats the one that could well make the
    difference between Ireland qualifying or not.
    
    With Townsend in great form ( naturally, hes a Chelsea player) and
    Vinny Jones likely to dig up (literally) an Irish Grannie, and after
    our great win in Hungary (whew, long sentence!) , Ireland MUST be
    fancied to do 'the biz' in Poland.... Yeah I know the Poles are
    playing well, but we're looking mean!!!
    
    As for England, I believe that Sepp Piontek and his Turks could
    surprise 'em. I hope, I hope!! Whats the likely English team?
    
    *Tiger*

    
    The England squad for the Turkey game was announced yesterday,
    heralding the return of Bryan Robson at 34, Peter Beardsley, Chris
    Waddle, and Steve MacMahon. Graham Taylor complained about the way
    so many games in a season had caused a number of his first choice 
    players to have injuries at a crucial time, but he feels he has 
    picked a squad to do the job in hand.
    
    The players I can definitely remember being selected are:
    
    Goalkeepers       Woods, Seaman.
    
    Defenders         Dixon, Pearce, Dorigo, Walker, Pallister, Adams,
    		      Burrows.
    
    Midfield          Robson, MacMahon, Platt, Batty, Thomas, Steven,
    		      Waddle.
    
    Attack            Lineker, Smith, Wright, Beardsley.
    
    On Stand-by       Coton, Stewart and others.
    
    
    
    
    Midfield

    
    	re .28..
    
    	You guys aren't serious about Vinnie (nice name) Jones, are you?
    	
    	Shurely thersh shome mishtake....8-)
    
    	Andy.

    
    Pallister has had a recurrence of his groin strain, during the Man Utd
    against Cambridge Rumbelows Cup tie this week. This means the door will
    be open for Tony Adams to play against Turkey.
    
    			Steve.

                      <<< Note 30.31 by SUBURB::DURANTS >>>
 
    
>    Pallister has had a recurrence of his groin strain, during the Man Utd
>    against Cambridge Rumbelows Cup tie this week. This means the stable door 
>    will be open for Tony Adams to play against Turkey.
    
>    			Steve.



Has his fetlock fully recovered?


Stuart

    
    Ireland travel to Poland next week knowing that only a victory will do.
    Niall Quinn has been withdrawn by manager Peter Reid on the basis of a
    new club rule but he still hopes to play.  Ray Houghton is also
    extremely doubtful.  We can't afford to lose either player.
    
    Both sides simply must win with England the only beneficaries if the
    sides finish level.  I'm more hopeful than optimistic but I predict a
    1-0 win with a goal in the last 15 minutes.
    
    The U21s also face Poland in Bygodzcz (spelling?) and while we're out
    of contention a victory for Poland will see them qualify for the
    Olympics and European championships.  As they comfortably beat us in
    Dundalk I don't expect any miracles.  
    
    I'm off this afternoon.  Full report on Monday week.

    Quinn & Houghton are definitely out. Quinn had hoped that passing a
    fitness test on Friday would allow him to join the squad, but he
    failed. Houghton was withdrawn by Graeme Souness over the weekend. Will
    this mean a game for Roy Keane?

    Looks like Roy Keane will play but there is also talk about Jack
    playing Morris in midfield, with only Cascarino up front. This would 
    allow Townsend and Keane room to attack. Anybody else hear about this.
    
    Steven
     
    

    
     The England team to stuff Turkey tonight is:
      
     Woods
     Dixon
     Pearce
     Mabbutt
     Walker
     Batty
     Robson
     Platt
     Waddle
     Smith
     Lineker
    
      It looks a pretty well balanced side.Goals are needed,and I expect
    England to hammer Turkey.
    
    Dave...

    
    For those of you living in the Reading (U.K.) area I've just confirmed
    with the Irish Club in Reading that they will be screening the Ireland
    v Poland match live today on an enlarged screen.
    Sorry for the late notification.
    
    Tom Shaughnessy
    
    ps The Irish Club is also one of the few watering holes I've found in
    this part of the country with a half reasonable pint of Guinness -
    at $1.30 a pint !!! 
    
    
    

    KO is at 5pm, UK (and European time).
    
    jb.

    Thanks for the info regarding Irsih Club in Reading showing the game.
    
    Could you post an address / directions please.
    
    Richard O'Neill
    SBP.

    > KO is at 5pm, UK (and European time).
    
    Thanks JB, I can catch it on Eurosport.
    
    That's the last time I'll believe a Dundee supporter !!
    
    	- Robin....

    I know how to get there but not quite sure of the names of the streets
    but I'll give it a a try anyway. If you can find either the Chatham
    Street multistorey car park just off the centre of Reading you're
    there.
    There is a pub called the 'Butler' directly opposite the entrance to
    the club.
    Coming into town from the Basingstoke Rd. side you get on to the 'inner
    distribution' road heading for the town centre. Get off at the second
    exit and take a left at the roundabout - you'll pass a garage on your
    left and then the Butler pub with the Irish club on your right -
    membership is not a problem.
    Hope this helps - let's hope we can sink a few celebratorY pints of the
    black stuff by about 6:45pm this eve.
                                                              
    Regards 
    Tom S 
    

    Oooopps....but I was sure I read somewhere last week that the kick-off
    was 14:00....

And, would you believe it, McGrath has put them in front after 10 mins!

g

    
    Ireland 3 (McGrath, Townsend & Cascarino)
    Poland  3
    
    A disappointing result considering that we led 3-1 with only 15 mins
    to go but mistakes from Moran and particularly Bonner let the Polish
    back into the game.
    Still, the Turks could spring a surprise and beat stuff English in
    tonight's game.
    
        rgds,
         MARTIN.
    

    
    	England 1	Turkey 0
    
    	Does this mean that the Irish are out of the finals?

    
    Don't think so. Ireland and Poland are both 2 points behind England.
    However Ireland have a better goal difference than the other two.
    
    So, if Poland beat England and Ireland beat Turkey then they will go
    through (unless Poland win by a large margin and Ireland only win
    by the odd goal).
    
    If Poland beat England and Ireland don't win then Poland go through.
    
    If Poland don't beat England then England go through.
    
    That's what I reckon (from memory).

    
    England 1 (Smith)
    Turkey  0
    
    What a crap performance by a crap team and a team like that would be a 
    disgrace to send to the European finals. It maddens me to think that
    England will still qualify ahead of Ireland who have been the best team
    in this group and should have beaten England at Wembley and Poland
    yesterday.
    Once again, the English were pathetic with Waddle totally useless as
    usual with a totally brainless midfield......crap........crap.......
    crap..........crap..........crap.........
    
       Martin

    Poland 3 Ireland 3.
    
    England 1 Turkey 0.
    
    	I wonder if the second result was affected by the English players
    knowing the result of the first. Anyway that's England virtually
    through. I'm amazed at Ireland being involved in a game with 6 goals in
    it! Was is as exciting as it sounds?
    
    	And just for       
    �<<< Note 30.5 by GALVIA::SPAIN "Vi skall resa till Sverige ocks�" >>>
    
    	Du kanske ska �ka dit, men knappast ditt fotbollslag.
    
    	Couldn't resist....
    
    
    		Steve
    

    
    	re .48...
    
    	Bang On!! England were truely awful last night, and playing like
    	this Sweden next year will be a disaster!
    
    	I hope all those Waddle Disciples were watching.....after 62 caps
    	he's as bad now as he ever was. Marseille are welcome to him. 
    	Robson was knackered but worked hard. Batty was just there to win
    	the ball...and we were playing b****y Turkey!! Dixon was crap.
    	Thank God Mabbutt played well, otherwise we might have got what
    	we deserved.
    
    	Ireland must wish they'd won their two games against us earlier
    	like they should have done. 
    
    	Taylor will harp on about his injury list etc., but that
    	performance last night is inexcusable.
    
    	And to think this team will probably now be the sole British Isles
    	representative.....good grief.... 8-(  8-(
    
	Andy.

    
    England 1 Turkey 0
    
    Possibly the worst performance from England since they were outplayed
    by Cameroon in the World Cup, the difference here being that although
    Turkey's build-up was excellent they didn't have a "Roger Miller" to
    provide the final pass. After all the tub-thumping about Robson he 
    was crap as were Platt, Batty and Dixon; in general England's midfield
    was a disaster, totally outplayed by the quick-passing Turks. The only
    England players to emerge with any credit were Woods, Pearce and Smith.
    
    Now, having got that off my chest, what did everyone else think? As I 
    was at Wembly I missed the comments of the TV pundits; were they
    equally as scathing or did they vote Robson "man-of-the-match"?
    
    jeff ;')

          <<< Note 30.48 by ESSB::MCUNNIFFE "I MET THE GREAT ALDO" >>>
                             -< Pathetic England. >-

    
>    England 1 (Smith)
>    Turkey  0
    
>    What a crap performance by a crap team and a team like that would be a 
>    disgrace to send to the European finals. It maddens me to think that
>    England will still qualify ahead of Ireland who have been the best team
>    in this group and should have beaten England at Wembley and Poland
>    yesterday.
>    Once again, the English were pathetic with Waddle totally useless as
>    usual with a totally brainless midfield......crap........crap.......
>    crap..........crap..........crap.........
    
>       Martin

Martin,

I missed the game last night and was feeling a tad disappointed, but now,
having read your well constructed, unbiased, erudite and illuminating report,
I feel a whole lot better. Its always good to read stuff written by an expert.

Once again thanks,

Your Friend,

Stuart



BTW did Aldo score for Irleand or was he dropped?

    Gawd Andy, sounds like I was lucky to miss it! I was never a 'Waddle
    Disciple', but having seen him play the last couple of years, he can
    be, if played in the right position a superb footballer. But is Taylor
    that interested in a footballer? Batty? 
    
    	Steve

    
    
    Can somebody please post up the current group standings (perhaps
    Scotland's and Wales' groups too) ?
    
    Cheers,
    	Adam.

    Poland-Ireland
    
    An entertaining game - but Charlton will have given his players a
    rocket at full time after they threw a 3-1 advantage away. if they had
    won ....
    
    England-Turkey
    
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Average 1 st half, diabolical 2nd. No player excelled,
    most wre average to very poor. Now, if Lineker hadn't have been chopped
    after 5 minutes (a sending off offence), what would have happened?
    At least England got 2 points, and are favourites to go to Sweden, they
    need to improve their game before next July. England need a draw in
    Poland to qualify, they'll get one.
    
    jb.

    Re: .36
    
    Dave,
    
    I sat through Martin Tyler and Big Ron last night and after watching
    Ireland squander a two goal lead you can well imagine I was ill
    equipped for the ordeal. 
    
    When the game began we were told how a goal flood was inevitable
    because Turkey were quite happy just to be at Wembley. At the end
    Turkey were made out to be more like old Brazil.
    
    I think this was the worst (if luckiest) English performance and will
    certainly see them in Sweden which is a shame because we'll then be
    subjected to more of the jingoistic nonsense we got last night.
    
    Paul

    
    Group VII.
    
    		P	W	D	L	F	A	Pts		
    
    ENGLAND	5	3	2	0	6	2	8
    
    R of IRE    5	1	4	0	10	5	6
    
    POLAND	5	2	2	1	7	5	6
    
    TURKEY	5	0	0	5	0	11	0
    
    
    
    England only need a draw from Poland and they are through. Last
    night England were crap. We played better against the Germans and
    lost. Woods, Pearce and Walker were OK. Midfield were crap and
    this is where Turkey gave us the runabout.
    
    Christ knows what Taylor said to them at half time but it only
    made matters worse. His comment was "we lost our way". What does
    that mean ?? Get Taylor out and Cloughie in.
    
    JN.

    Here's a Wadlle Fan who didn't see the game but has seen him play
    enough time for Marseille to know he's one of the great players playing
    in Europe.....the problem seems to be every time he plays for England
    
    Sounds a bit like Barnes eh!......now thats at least two true Class
    palyers that dont 'do it' for the England team, that says more in my
    opinion about England and their Manager.......
    
    If Graham Taylor is the Best English Football can offer its time
    to look abroad for managers that'll get the best out of their best
    players....
    
    -Dom
                                                   

    If England had Jack Charlton for the last 6 years they would probably
    have won a World cup and a European championship.
    
    Paul

    
    Re-1
    
      No we woudnt....Draws dont win you anything.England were shit last
    night,but we still won.Only Pearce and Woods played well.Ron Atkinson
    doing the "Expert Annaylsys" on Sky was pathetic.
     We need to improve in Poland...we will and qualify.Poland didnt look
    anything special last night.Ireland gifted them the goals,they should
    have hammered them.The difference between England and Ireland is we
    play badly and win,you play well and draw.We'll be in Sweden.
    
    Dave...

     I don't care how England played last night. We got the result that
    Taylor predicted and all the rubbish about "goal feasts" was pure media
    hype. We were without the midfield that Taylor wanted because of
    injuries which meant that he had to rely on that doddering old fool
    Robson, who couldn't even stand on his own two feet most of the time,
    and Mabbutt who is unable to give any height in defence.
    
     So bearing in mind that these former football players were on the
    pitch and the instructions that Waddle was given prevented him from
    aiding the midfield (an area where I have had very few complaints about
    him before) then last nights performance was what Taylor planned,
    albeit a little boring.
    
     But who cares! We got the result, we are top of the table and only a
    catastrophe will prevent England from playing in Sweden.
    
    
    
    
     S�mon
    

    Simon,
    
    If Poland beat you by a goal and we beat Turkey by a goal then we'll go
    through. So clearly England are favourites but don't count any chickens
    because if you don't make it .......
    
    
    
    
    ......and we do.......
    
    
    Stuttgart will seem mild in comparison to the slagging you'll generate.
    
    If on the other hand you do make it we'll pipe you off to Sweden will
    all good wishes and hope you get your dues out there. We'll settle for
    watching Jimmy Hill who can't be beaten for entertainment whenever
    England go forth.
    
    cheers,
    
    Paul

    Well, I thought the first half was o.k.ish, the second half we
    definitely were crap and were lucky to hold onto the win as Turkey came
    out and gave us a lesson in possession and passing.
    
    For me the outstanding english players were Pearce (he was everywhere
    giving 100% all the time), Woods (stopped a couple of good attempts on
    goal) and Smith (in the right place at the right time, and put the ball
    in the net).
    
    Average players were Mabbut (did the job, but didn't excel, may be due
    to his long layoff at this level), Waddle (went past the defenders most
    time and got the crosses in, but most of them went to the Turks) and
    Lineker (was a yard short on some of his usual tap-ins).
    
    Robson was knackered for the whole match, the only time he looked
    dangerous was when he flattened the goalie. He should retire while he's
    still remembered as being the great player he was, and not fizzle out
    like a damp squib. 
    
    If the Turks had had a decent striker we'd probably be very unhappy
    this morning, although the long-range shot which Woods pushed up onto
    the crossbar was excellent, reminiscent of His Royal Highness Bobby C.
    
    Just my 2p'th,
    
    Stevo.
    

    Hello guys,
    
    I've always been a believer in the best team qualifying...so if
    England go through they'll deserve it...they did the biz when it
    was required whereas we didnt  ---> Wembley, at home to Poland and
    away to Poland. Life is tough so is football...
    
    We may still do it..I wouldnt be surprised if we did. Poland need
    no incentive better than what they will have next month. Ireland
    in Turkey could be harder than we think..the Turks looked damn good
    at Wembley...
    
    This nonsense that the better team (ie Ireland) will not go through..
    well, thats rubbish. We didnt do the biz, end of story. If we win
    in Turkey and England lose, well I'll be delighted, but we will
    be lucky to qualify due to all the chances we've squandered.
    
    If England get through, good luck to them. They got the results.
    
    C'est la vie.
    
    *Tiger*

    Well said.
    
    It's very magn.., magna... well anyway it's dashed sporting of you and
    I'm sure you speak for all of us!!!!
    
    best regards,
    
    Your Uncle (Tom)
    
    

    In Copenhagen in 79 or so, we squandered a 3-1 lead to Denmark. I never
    thought I'd see the day when we'd do that under Jack Charlton. I'd say
    he gave them a right bollocking at full time --- and deservedly so.
    O'Leary, Bonner & Moran were at fault for the final two goals, and I
    must say that Packie didn't look as secure as he usually does. Townsend
    was brilliant and took his goal well. It's very disappointing, we
    should have killed the Poles off at half-time.
    
    With England winning in Wembley, it makes it very difficult. I doubt if
    the Poles have the wherewithal to do the biz against them. If we do not
    go through, then it is our fault. No matter how poxy England are, the
    fact is that we failed to win at Wembley and only took 2 points from
    Poland instead of 3 or 4. 
    
    Still, there's one more series of matches to go. Anything can happen
    yet. It's not over till the fat lady sings.
    
    Jimmy

>>>  BTW did Aldo score for Irleand or was he dropped?

Stuo,

Charlton decided to play a 4-5-1 formation so only needing one striker he 
decided to put the best man on the job


.. and picked Cascarino.

Aldo was on the bench.which surely explains everything.

    re. 65   essb::bree
    
    I aint no Uncle Tom!...I just believe in calling a spud a spud!
    We didnt do the biz...England did....nuff said...I'm tired of 
    hard luck stories and the like. Fed up of hearing about if only
    this and that....etc...etc...
    
    Thats the sort of stuff we'll be hearing from you when Man U. fail
    to take the title next May..."If only "..etc ..etc..
    
    8^))   <--wicked Chelsea grin..
    
    *Tiger*

    I don't accept this nonsense about not performing up to par because of
    injuries.  There are probably 30 to 40 players who could easily play
    for England on a pure skill basis.  So if a handful are out injured,
    there are plenty of others to take their place.
    
    What is obvious is that we don't play as a TEAM.  There were 11
    individuals out there last night.  Taylor has got to shape them up into
    a well-oiled machine (not unlike the Germans).
    
    How this is accomplished I'm sure there will be some debate, but fewer
    league games and a few more friendlies would probably help. How about
    taking the current England team and lining them up against Arsenal or
    Liverpool or United.  After last night's performance, I'd put big money
    on the league team to win.
    
    PJ

    Regarding the title, United are ahead. Despite harsh criticism of
    Robson last night he is still doing it for United and there can be few
    doubts that he'll be leading them into next year's European Cup.
    
    Further replies to United note!!!1
    
    cheers,
    
    Your nephew!!!!!!

    RE -2
    
           England v Arsenal, I don't think so, half the Arsenal team are
     part of the England set-up. A better idea would be to put out the
    Arsenal team ( bar two) as England.
    
    Alan.
    
    
     

    Joe Mercer tried that back in the '70s with playing most of the 
    Liverpool team for one game (cant remember who against)....
    
    ... the experiment fell flat.
    
    -Dom

    I don't think that was Joe Mercer. Ron Greenwood? Revie?

    
    I think that Ireland will qualify, Poland will be second and England
    will be third.
    
    Archie @SQF.
    

    re .74
    
    Ha Ha!! 8-)
    
    If England don't qualify for the finals, then... errrmmm... I'll give
    up football altogether!! Either that, or I'll become an Arsenal
    supporter, which basically amounts to the same thing... ;-)
    
    Stew.
    

    
    	Poland 3 Ireland 3
    
    I can't say much that hasn't been said already except that like he
    other 2,999 Irish in Poznan I was absolutely gutted last Wednesday
    night.  4 of us went back by car to Warsaw and it was like a morgue.
    We blew it.  For 76 minutes we played superb football, outplayed the
    Poles and then proceeded to throw it all away.
    
    The news from Wembley means we still have a chance but we should have
    already sewn up qualification without now having to depend on other
    teams.  We should have won easily at Wembley but didn't take our
    chances, likewise v Poland in Lansdowne Road.  We did beat the Poles in
    Poznan and then proceeded to gift them a point.
    
    Poland are quite capable of beating England and they will still believe
    they have a chance as we are by no means certain to beat the Turks in
    Istanbul.  Had we won in Poznan I think we'd have gone through.  Quite
    frankly despite being the best team in the group we don't deserve to
    qualify.
    
    	Poland U21 2 Ireland U21 0
    
    2 goals in the lat 12 minutes ensured Poland's qualification for the
    Olympics and European championships.  This was tough luck on a brave
    Irish side who had dominated much of the game but unfortunately most of
    our chances fell to Vinny Arkins.  Even after the first goal Tony
    Cousins hit the bar.  This was easily the best display I've seen from
    our U21s and it does give hope for the future.  Scott Fitzgerald was
    impressive at centre half as was Matthew Rush of West Ham and Tony
    Cousins of Liverpool.  This game was live on Polish TV and was a very
    big occasion in Bydgoscz (sp?) home of Zawista.  Only about 60 Irish
    attended the game but we made ourselves heard despite the presence of
    thousands of riot police (totally unnecessary of course).  The other
    consolation in defeat was theat it meant England were eliminated.
    
    
    Gary.

    What was Steve (?) Harrison's party trick that got him into trouble
    with the authorities?
    
    Interested bystander.

    Ireland have one won one of their past 10 World/Euro championship games
    outright and still the euphoria continues.  Although some of the ghosts
    of the past are emerging (Denmark 79!).  
    
    Now if Gary Mackay takes out Polish citizenship, Graham Taylor picks
    over 30s talent and TGA makes his return we might just make it.
    
    By the way I thought Big ROn was great in his commentary of the England
    Vs Turkey game.  Although I don't remember the Hungarians to make the
    comparison with Turkey.
    
    Shane

    
    
    Cambridge central defender Liam Daish is the surprise addition to the
    Irish squad for the forthcoming game in Turkey.  There is no place for
    Chris Hughton, Bernie Slaven or David Kelly.
    
    Gary.

    Gary,
    
    	Any chance you can post the full squad ????  Also what time does
    the match kick off our time ????
    
    Cheers,
    
    		Brian.
    	

    
    Full Irish Squad
    
    Bonner, Peyton, Irwin, Staunton, Phelan, Morris, Moran, McCarthy,
    O'Leary, Daish, Houghton, McGrath, Byrne, Keane, Sheedy, McLoughlin,
    Sheridan, Aldridge, Cascarino, Quinn
    
    I think it's a mistake not to bring either Slaven or Kelly.  We must
    cetainly hope something happens to Morris if Irwin isn't fit.
    
    Gary.

    
    Now that we are approaching the final games of our group, correct me if
    I'm wrong but I think that THE GREAT ALDO leads the scoring charts with
    three goals. Along with that, Linekar and co. have played more games
    than Aldo and he's still top. There is nothing wrong with 3 goals in
    four group games. Hopefully Taylor's Wimbledon style tactics will
    backfire in Poland and wouldn't it be great if Aldo could score against
    the Turks and bring us to Sweden.
    
         Cunno.

    Martin,
    
    Aldo scored 3 against Turkey, hardly world class opponents.
    
    By the way I heard all your strikes on holidays were against
    Macclesfield or somewhere, hardly world class..... 

    
    
          Paul,
              You must also take into account that all of the other
    strikers also played against the Turks and made no impression at all.
    It took the great one to expose the Turks. I have converted quite a few
    people to Aldoism and I think that you are in the process of joining
    the rest of us. May your faith in the great Aldo increase.
    
           Cunno. 
    

    Luckily, I have been priviliged to overhear part of the conversion
    therapy that is involved in becoming a true disciple of "Aldoism"
    
    
    
    Disciple:  But, O Great One how will "Aldoism" help solve some of 
    the major problems facing mankind such as Third World famine?
    
    The Great One:  Ah, my child, truly you have much to learn.  The 
    path to true "Aldoism" is a difficult one.  It is a rocky road 
    strewn with heartache and pain, but persevere and true 
    enlightenment shall be yours.  To help you on your way remember 
    that in his two seasons at Anfield the sacred Aldo scored more 
    than 60 goals.
    
    Disciple:  Wise words indeed, O Great One.  Please, tell me why 
    did the sacred Aldo not accept the hand of friendship from David 
    O'Leary after the Championship decider in 1989?  
    
    The Great One:  You must remember, my child, that O'Leary is an 
    unbeliever.  He is an Arseite.  A truly barbaric tribe who seek to 
    profane and poor scorn upon the achievements of the sacred Aldo.  
    They also foolishly believe that they are a better team than the 
    mighty Liverpool.
    
    Disciple:  But, O Great One they have won the Championship in two 
    of the last three years.
    
    The Great One:  Spiritually, my child, they have won nothing and 
    never will because only Liverpool are entitled to win trophies.  
    
    Disciple:  Do you mean Liverpool weren't defeated 2-0 by Arsenal 
    in May 1989 and didn't loose the Championship on goal difference?
    
    The Great One:  Liverpool are never defeated, my child.  Very 
    occasionally a team playing against them may score more goals than 
    them, but this does not constitute a defeat.  It is simply an act 
    of kindness and generosity.  Now, my child, tell me how did you 
    get on in your Courtney Session?
    
    Disciple:  Well, O Great One, I closed my eyes as you said but I 
    still couldn't "see" Johnnie Barnes being tripped in the penalty 
    area when he wasn't. 
    
    The Great One:  I think you will find it easier if you start with 
    an easier subject.  In your next Courtney Session try Kenny 
    Dalglish.
    
    Disciple:  Yes, O Great One.     
    
    The Great One:  Now, my child, it is time for your Souno Session.
    
    Disciple:  O Great One, please explain again why we have to spend 
    ninety minutes each week kicking each other on the shins whilst 
    screaming in a scottish accent, "He %$�%&?!$ dived, ref!".
    
    The Great One:  Inner strength my child.  True disciples must be 
    prepared to face a difficult and changing world.  After all there 
    are still a few people who fail to recognise that TGA is the one 
    true striker....      
    
    Mike M

    Re. -1
    
     Luv it, luv it. True sarcasm at its best.
    
    
      S�mon

    Martin,
    
    Come out now and face things.
    
    
    Paul

                   <<< Note 30.85 by YUPPY::MCCABE "Mike" >>>
                                    -< :-) >-

>    The Great One:  You must remember, my child, that O'Leary is an 
>    unbeliever.  He is an Arseshite.  A truly barbaric tribe who seek to 
                           ^^^^^^^^^

     A Freudian slip, Mike? Or have you let the Baby Aldo into your life?


     Deranged of Holborn.

    
    A Definite Note of the Year contender 
    
    * 85
    
    
    
    Giggle Giggle 
    
    
    Liam

    Denis Irwin & Roy Keane have withdrawn from the squad -- Irwin with a
    back injury and Keane with an ankle injury. Keane was hoping to play
    for Forest reserves last night, but as he could not make that he
    withdrew from the squad. David Kelly has been called in to replace him.

    Does anybody know if the Ireland v Turkey game is being broadcast live
    by any station in the U.K.   I believe the Irish club in Reading will
    again be showing the match if its available on either Skysport (?) or
    Sportscast (?)
    Heres hoping we won't have to put up with radio transmission only.
    
    Regards
    Tom Shaughnessy - Reading.

    Poland vs England is live on Skysport, coverage starts at 5pm, the
    Scotland game is also live on the same channel (ko 2.30pm). I'm not
    sure about Ireland-Turkey, it might be on Eurosport.
    
    jb.
    

    we could always rebroadcast RTE 2 through our satellite dish here
    in Dublin, and get any Paddys in DEc to pick it up on the DVN???
    Whatcha think?
    
    *Tiger*

    
    According to next week's RT, ITV will be screening the Ireland game
    live, but at the time of going to press, the K.O time was not finalised,
    so it is not scheduled in the listings.
    
    Rob

    Hey Tiger,
    
    	Seriously that's a brilliant idea! I mean not that I want to watch 
    Jack Charlton and Vinny Jones and all that, but if maybe we can persuade
    some of the DEC management of the immense 'employee interest' in such a
    scheme and the mind boggleing effect it could have on moral (o.k.
    productivity might suffer a little ;-) ), then we could try it for
    several games..... 
    
    			Steve

    Steve,
    
    I'll want money of course!..I'll check it out with IS..It might
    be a runner.
    
    Jeez, I might be the next Robert Maxwell, communications Giant..
    God knows,  I'm putting on enough weight!!!
    
    8^)
    *Tiger*

    rumour has it (with the Irish squad being ripped apart by injury)
    that under the 'Granny' law .....the Grannies might end up playing!
    
    Listen, whatever happens, enjoy the game...and that includes you
    English, too. Whoever gets through will have deserved it. Lets have
    a good night, I'll be stuck in Hanlons at 5:30 with the rest of
    teh Park House mob. 
    
    Lets pray that we dont meet again in the WC draw for 1994!
    
    have one on me...
           
    *Tiger*

    
    PREDICTION
    
    Poland 1 England 0 (Robert Warzyha)
    Turkey 0 England 0 (TGA)
    
         ENDA
    

                       <<< Note 30.98 by ESSB::ECURRAN >>>
                            -< we will go through. >-

    
    PREDICTION
    
    Poland 1 England 0 (Robert Warzyha)
    Turkey 0 England 0 (TGA)   ********************
    
         ENDA
    
    Is this some sort of Oirish joke or what ? ;-)
    
    jb.
    

    
>>    Is this some sort of Oirish joke or what ? ;-)
    
No its GUESS WHO exercising his proxy again.........

Regarding the Granny rule as highlighted by Tiger, I heard a story over the 
weekend (forget where) that Vinnie Jones is coming to Dublin on Thursday 
to look up his ancestorial roots. He thinks his Granny left Ireland when 
she was four years of age. Then again maybe I heard it on Scrap Saturday.

Rgds,
Shaughs.

    RE .98,
          sorry folks that should have read 
    		TURKEY 0 ,IRELAND 1 (TGA)
    			RGDS Enda......

    ahhhhhhhhshucks...
    
    I checked with I.S. about the giant Wok on the roof...it can only
    receive incoming satellite signals...they cant even get any of them
    dirty furrin channels on it..its hardcoded to pick up DVN...so no-one
    watches it.
    
    Sorry lads, PHTV cannot transmit , only receive.
    
    Oh well
    
    *Tiger*

    Good luck to everybody on Wednesday (Poland and Turkey included.
    As the saying goes:
    
                MAY THE BEST TEAM WIN
    
    Regards
    
             Stephen
    p.s
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
               " THE BEST TEAM BEING IRELAND "         
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

    There's bad news and there's really bad news...
    
    The Bad News:
    
    Niall Quinn failed a fitness test yesterday and is flying home from
    Istanbul today. According to the F.A.I. doctor, the injury is more
    serious than first thought.
    
    The Really Bad News:
    
    According to Des Cahill on the Radio Eireann Sports news this morning,
    Vinny Jones is flying into Dublin today to look for a granny.
    Apparently, Jack could use him as cover for our ageing centre-backs...

�    According to Des Cahill on the Radio Eireann Sports news this morning,
�    Vinny Jones is flying into Dublin today to look for a granny.
�    Apparently, Jack could use him as cover for our ageing centre-backs...

Yes it's true...... Jack confirmed this morning from Istanbul that if Vinnie
Jones became available for Ireland he would seriously consider selecting him
for any subsequent competitions that Ireland may compete in.

His Grandmother apparently came from the Coombe area of Dublin her name was 
Beasley, and Vinnie is in Dublin to see can he obtain her birth certificate that
would entitle him to an Irish passport. Its a pity Jack could not sign up a 
couple of full backs for tommorows match.... our centre halves are O.K. but 
Phelan and Houghton are scraping the barrell a little.

Rgds,
Shaughs

    The Poles might be without their first choice goalie, and Dariusz Xxxx
    (who plays for Celtic / Rangers) for the game tomorrow.
    
    The England game is live on Sky Sports at 5.30, the Scotland game
    follows at 7.30, and then the 2nd half of Luxembourg-Wales. Quite a
    night of footie on the box, all of it live. Get the beer and pizza in !
    
    jb.

    Most of the papers agree on the team...
    
       Woods
       Dixon
       Pearce 
       Mabbutt
       Walker
       Rocastle
       Thomas
       Gray
       Platt
       Sinton 
       Lineker
    
        5 in midfield....I think a sweeper would have been better,but
    hopefully with 5 in the middle,Pearce and Dixon wont get caught to far
    upfield,leaving big gaps as happened against
    Turkey,Germany,Ireland,and every other team we played against without
    using a sweeper.I cant understand why Taylor
    persists with a flat backfour,and puts so much pressure on Dixon and
    Pearce to get foward,without the cover of the 3 centre backs.
     Its a chance for the likes of Rocastle,Gray and Sinton to shine,they
    cant do much worse than the shambles against Turkey.
    
    Dave...
    

    
    All the reports I've seen suggest that Beardsley will be recalled -
    presumably in place of Rocastle in your team.
    
    Paul

    I suppose being gracious now would be no harm. The best of luck to all.
    
    Prediction:
    
    Poland 2    England 1
    
    
    Turkey 0    Ireland 2
     
                (Mick Leech 49, Brendan Bradley 53)
    
    
    
    best regards,
    
    
    Paul

The Irish team announced this evening is :

			Bonnar

	Houghton			Phelan

		Mc Carthy	O'leary


        Byrne     McGrath   Staunton   Sheedy

                  |
                  v
               +-----+	  
           --> | TGA | <--	Cascarino
               +-----+
                  ^
                  |



Cunno has informed me that he may be back "noting" again if the result goes
Irelands way tommorow night. And if the great one scores who knows what may 
happen.......

Well,
	We're over here in Reading for a course (even worse...Highfield!).
Anyway, four of us went down to the Irish Club tonight to see if they would 
be showing the Irish Match tomorrow.

We got conflicting reports, to say the least...definitely yes, maybe and 
definitely not!

We were told that we could pick it up on radio (RTE1 is at 567medium). Does 
anybody know if THE match is likely to be shown live in the Reading area?

Time is getting short...any information gratefully received!

Michael.

    I can unfortunatly still remember too well Englands game in Poland
    for the '74 World Cup qualifying group....and Bobby Moore having a 
    lousy game. We lost 2-0 I think and then had the Wembly game to make
    things worse!
    
    I'll be happy with a 1-1 draw, and wish that England has a better
    manager for the matches in Sweden.....
    
    -Dom

Re .112

> and wish that England has a better manager for the matches in Sweden.

He had what I believe was a record run of 12 (?) games without defeat
after taking over, including an absolutely shattering tour of the Far
East (that should never have taken place) immediately last season was
over.

He has lost 1 match since taking over (a friendly against Germany)
and the team have only failed to score once. 

Given that he's building a new team and that there have been so
many injuries to his squad, I don't consider he's done too badly
yet.

If the team qualify then Graham should have every right to lead
them in Sweden.

Give the man a chance, he hasn't failed yet !

There is naturally a lot of speculation about tonight's matches.

If England avoid defeat they are of course qualified.

If they get beaten then the battle is on between Poland and Ireland.

In any case, England are the only team that can qualify with a draw.

Ireland MUST win to qualify. That will not be an easy task.

The Turkish national side is no pushover. They have made drastic
improvement.

There is a parallel between what is happening now in Turkey and
what has happened elsewhere in the past.

Let me explain. Often the national side of a particular country
makes great improvement simultaneous to a parallel development
in club football.

The Dutch side got to two World Cup finals in 1974/8 in the wake
of Ajax Amsterdam being the best club side in Europe.

In 1982, after much success by St. Etienne (led by one M. Platini),
the French got to the WC semi-final (morally they got to the final).

There is now another very good French side, coincidental with the
rise of OM (as well as Monaco and others).

OK, back to Turkey. The Turkish representatives in the European Cup
and Cup Winners' Cup have both reached the third round. This is the
first time this has ever happened.

Besiktas just lost by the odd-goal in the EC Round 1 vs PSV

Galatasaray had a 5-1 aggregate in Rd 1 and then qualified by
winning away vs. Banik Ostrava in CWC.

Trabzonspor knocked out Dinamo Zagreb in Round 1 and then put 4 past
Lyon both at home and away for an 8-4 aggregate.


This is obviously provoking an improvement in the national side.

Ireland be warned !

    re.108
    
      Yeah.....I saw the team on Ceefax last night that had Beardsley in
    it.I think we can safely say that the team will be as .107,with either
    Beardsley or Rocastle playing.
    
    Dave...

    Turkey are certainly no pushover, and with a depleted squad, our task
    in Istanbul is not a facile one.  Their performance against England is
    bound to lift them and they will be a different proposition to the team
    we beat 5-0 in Dublin. While we are not guaranteed the two points, I am
    would be surprised if we don't manage it. Turkey got a lot of room in
    Wembley -- but its unlikely that the likes of Paul McGrath will allow
    them such freedom this afternoon.
    
    If we fail to go through, we have only ourselves to blame. We had the
    chances, but we failed to capitalise on them. England, on the other
    hand, got the results they needed. Maybe their performances were not
    the best, but they got the points and that's what matters.
    
    By the way, Jack Charlton was interviewed on the 6.00pm news on RTE
    last night. As he stood there in the Stadium in Istanbul discussing the
    fitness of the players etc., there, nodding sagely beside him was
    another soccer expert - our moderator, Gary Spain. So if Ireland don't
    do the biz, we know who to blame :-) :-)
    
    Jimmy

Looks as if the papers got it right for a change:

	Woods
	Dixon
	Walker
	Mabbutt
	Pearce
	Gray
	Platt
	Thomas
	Rocastle
	Lineker
	Sinton

Subs:
	Seaman
	Curle
	Smith
	I Wright
	Daley

Best of luck lads - you'll need it!

grahame

    I've just checked with the Irish Club in Reading who tell me that the
    only way they can show the Irish game is if it is broadcast by
    Skysport.  From what I can find in the press t.v. pages Skysport are
    only showing the England game plus highlights from every other game
    except the Irish game.
    It seems that the only last hope is that Sportscast are televising the 
    game. I know that this is available in the Battle Inn in Reading - not
    far from the Irish club. 
    So how do we contact Sportscast ???   HELP !!!  
    
    I can't understand the broadcasting powers in this country - with such
    a large Irish community present here yet none of them see fit to
    satisfy the needs of the football enthusiasts.
    
    As for the Guinness in the country - I can't seem to get a decent pint
    anywhere. All in all I am seriously beginning to wonder what the ___K
    I'm doing here.
    
    Tom Shaughnessy - Reading (ex Galway) 
     

>>    As for the Guinness in the country - I can't seem to get a decent pint
>>    anywhere. All in all I am seriously beginning to wonder what the ___K
>>    I'm doing here.
    
    Ah Tom, wouldn't you love to be on the High stool in Paddy Fahys this 
evening or across the road with Fido and Tom. There will be some cra�c there 
this evening win lose or draw...

Rgds,

Your namesake...

    
    What time's the kick off for the Irish game ?
    
    A.

    re: .118
    
    Tom,
    
    You think you have it bad? We just about get the results in the papers
    here....if we're lucky. If you don't have to wear skates to play it,
    it's not sport over here! I will be relying on NOTES to keep up with
    the results.
    
    Gerry ��
    	   �

         <<< Note 30.120 by ANNECY::ROWLAND_A "a slip of the tongue" >>>
                              -< Just a quickie >-

    
>>    What time's the kick off for the Irish game ?
    
       5-30pm GMT 


Rgds,
Shaughs.

    
    Tom, I think the ITV channels are showing the Ireland v Turkey match.
    UTV are anyway so I presume all other ITV channels are.

    The English Team :
    
                       WOODS
    
            DIXON    MABUTT  WALKER  PEARCE
    
        SINTON  ROCASTLE  PLATT THOMAS  GRAY
    
                        LINEKER
    
    SUBS : WRIGHT, SMITH, SEAMAN, CURL AND ????
    
    But definately no Beardsley.
    
    
    
    

    
    Well, it looks like ARE BRAVE BOYS are at it again 50 arrests after
    a night club was demolished in Poznan one things for sure win or
    lose we'll go out fighting.
    
    After tonight I'll be glad when this groups over I'm fed up with
    picking up the papers and reading how Ireland are the best team
    in the group and deserve to go to Sweden, that fool Charlton, I'm
    just about fed up with his pathetic ramblings, why can't he get into
    his thick head that you have to win games if you want to be taken
    seriously ok England havn't played well but they have got the results.
    
    So Jack, P**S off and start rebuilding for the World Cup or better
    still do something your good at, sitting on the river bank with
    your ROD in your hand.
    
                            Neil.....
    
                 
     
     

    Shaughs,
    where the hell did you get a name like that - ' this place ain't big
    enough for both of us'.
    Is there still the other Tom (of the jacket) Shaughs in Dec Galway ?
    I'm sure its not you (I hope) as he never had an interest in football
    except through the lense of a camera.
    
    Anyway - yes I'd give anything to have the prospect of adjourning to
    either Paddy's or Hogans this afternoon for a few 'creamy pints a
    porter' and the game. As you say there would definitely be some craic
    (I can't do the fada) - win, loose or draw.
    Actually an idea has just come to mind - perhaps if you suggest to the
    proprieters of the above establishments to have a whip round for the
    exiled Shaughs who is suffering from severe withdrawal symptoms from
    the lack of 'decent porter' and the said craic to enable him charter a
    flight to Carnmore - they may just respond generously. 
    In fact if you get moving now I might even make it on time
    for the kick off !!!
    
    Heres hoping we're celebrating 'qualification' for Euro. this eve.
    
    Regards 
    Tom S 
                                                         

    Come on Neil, don't let yourself down!!!!
    
    After all if England do qualify for Sweden, and the odds say they will,
    you won't need to be so bitter. If they don't qualify (God willing)
    then at least you'll be spared the anguish of seeing them thumped like you
    did last time in Germany.
    
    That we didn't win matches we should have is down solely to ourselves.
    Unlike other years we don't have referees or officials to blame but
    that's the way the cookie crumbles.
    
    
    So, all in all, you've got loads to look forward to and therefore can I
    exhort you to keep a stiff you know what, keep of the hard tack until
    the sun is over the yardarm, never stay on three of a blue, take your
    dealing trick, and always dance with the one that brought you.
    
    cheers,
    
    Paul
    
    
     
    
    

                 <<< Note 30.123 by CLADA::DODONNELL "Denis" >>>

    
>    Tom, I think the ITV channels are showing the Ireland v Turkey match.
>    UTV are anyway so I presume all other ITV channels are.
    
    I don't think UTV are showing it live. They just have highlights at
    10:40 together with boxing. BBC are showing the 2nd half of England's
    game live on BBC2 starting at 6:15 with highlights of all the other 
    matches at 10:20 on BBC1. All above according to Irish Times.

    
                                              
    	Sensible advice if ever I saw it Neil |^)  ..and a pint of
    	whatever-that-is for me please.       
    
    	CHris

    From what I can gather the Irl v Turkey match is not being broadcast live
    anywhere outside of Ireland and Turkey (presubably).
    I've just discovered that Sportscast - my last hope - are not broadcasting 
    the match either.
    
    Anyway heres hoping we get the results we need and the t.v. highlights 
    later this eve.
    
    Regards 
    Tom S

    
    Peter, according to the Irish Press, UTV are showing live coverage
    of Ireland v Turkey starting at 5.10 pm. Either the Times or the Press
    got it wrong.

News Just in...

Vinnie Jones' Irish Grandmother has been pronounced fit to play.. she's
slotting in at Left Back.

Dave

    Latest Scores (35 mins)
    
    Turkey 1
    	
    Ireland 1
    
    Poland 1
    
    England 0 :-(((
    
    Rob

    Half time score : 
    
    Turkey 1    Ireland 1 <-- TGA had one disallowed
    
    Poland 1    England 0 
    
   

    Latest score : 
    
    Turkey 1  
 
   Ireland 2 
    
    Poland 1    England 0 
    
   SWEDEN HERE WE COME (I hope)

         
    Latest score : 
    
    Turkey 1  
 
   Ireland 

3
    
    Poland 1    England 0 
    
   SWEDEN HERE WE COME (looking better)

    I'm on the edge of my seat.....Results somebody please!!!!!
    
    Gerry ��
           -

RESULT YOU HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR.....


Turkey 1  


Ireland 3

Poland 1


England 1

Sob, Sob,

    Thanks for the updates, Tom. 
    
    Too bad we didn't make it!
    
    Gerry ��
           ^
           

So near and yet so far. Well done to the lads in Istanbul and Poznan.
Nice to see the Gentleman of English soccer putting England through, 
However now the World cup qualifiers are Jacks main objective, and with
the bulk of the starting IX tonight near the 30 mark or beyond its time
to send some of them to "stud".. Best of luck to England and to Graham
Taylor. I hope he can prove his critics wrong in Sweden just like he has 
done tonight. Ireland are out but thats our own fault and nobody elses.
If Jack had sent the lads out in Poland the way they went out tonight 
then we might have saved the torture of "relying on favours from somebody else"
as Jack Charlton says.

All in all it was a great group and some great banter between the games 
especially The "local derbys". I will stake my claim here and now that
Cunniffe will make an appearance in here tonight or early tommorow,
after all "football is a funny old game"

Rgds,
Shaughs.

P.S. Gary give us your autograph... your a big T.V. star now. 

    Well bad luck Ireland, you got real close and it must have been a bit
    painfull to here Lineker had scored in the 73rd minute.
    
    I'm prepared to give Taylor the benefit of the doubt and hope he comes
    up with an 'impressive' team for June next year. Did he actually ever
    win anything with Watford and Aston Villa when he was mamanger, other
    than maybe 2nd Div title?
    
    -Dom

    
    Congratulations to our English friends. Sorry Ireland, tough luck
    winning away and not qualified. But one had to go out.
    
    Good luck England for Sweden perhaps we can make it another good semi
    there (IF we qualify).
    
    G�nter
    

    
    Shaughs,
    
    On behalf of all England fans, thank you for your congratulations - it
    would have been so easy last night to slag us off, but to your credit,
    you took it well.
    
    England were crap yesterday, and it SHOULD HAVE BEEN a penalty, which
    would have killed us off. Fortunately, record books don't list such
    things, they will just say England finished the group a point ahead. 
    
    Let's hope Taylor gets a settled squad together before Sweden, and gives 
    players more than 45 minutes to show their worth.
    
    Bad Luck Ireland (..and that's easy to say, but not meant glibly)
    
    Rob

    
    
    	If only Jack Charlton was so gracious in defeat....I quote from
    	this mornings papers..
    
    	"I'll be ringing Grahame Taylor to tell him what a lucky
    	sod he is.. England have had all the luck going and we've 
    	had nothing ..England have played rubbish and are still going
    	to the finals..I still maintain we are the best team in the group
    	and everybody in England knows it."
    
    
    	I don't suppose he'll be cheering us on next year : )
    
    	CHris
    	

Re .147

That sounds like Jack Charlton.

We all know that England are always lucky.

The last time we were unlucky was when in the 1966 World Cup Final
leading 2-1 with only a couple of minutes to go, a certain J. Charlton
instead of "hoofing" the ball into touch, got himself into a load of 
trouble, then hacked his man down giving the Germans a free kick, from
which they scored the equalizer. We would never have had 25 years of
discussion over the 3rd goal if he hadn't (or had as the case may be)
put his big foot in it.

The only difference now is that he uses his mouth instead of his boot.

From a personal perspective, I guess we (I mean the English squad) have
had the "rub of the green" (pardon the pun) and I'm sorry that Ireland
had to miss out, as they did play some very good football.
They lost out, basically, because of the naivety vs Poland when they 
were 3-1 up. Who's fault is that ? Certainly, not J. Charlton's !!!

Hard luck Ireland.

J. Charlton keep your gob shut !!

    We have ourselves to blame, the game in Wembley proved to be the
    turning point, we kicked ye guys off the park, scored two goals
    unfortunately one for England and finished the game with only one
    point.  Nobody gets anywhere without luck, this time round England
    had it.
    
              I wish them the best in Sweeden, but they need someone to
    score goals, they can't allways rely on Garry Linekar and Steve
    Staunton to score for them..

    
    Just a couple of points on last nights game in Poznan:
    
    Firstly, the free kick from which Poland scored. The TV pundits were 
    adamant that it should never have been a free kick in the first place
    but I'm not so sure; although Rocastle won the ball in the tackle in 
    did seem as though he had pulled Ziober back BEFORE winning it.
    
    Secondly, the most controversial point, the "penalty". Whilst there's
    no doubt in my mind that Woods did bring the player down, it seemed to
    me that there was more than a suspicion of offside when the original 
    shot was struck. Given that the player went on to take the ball past
    the keeper, he could not be said to be "not interfering with play".
    
    Any thoughts?
    
    jeff.

    I agree that Woods brought down the player, which should have been a
    penalty, however, I thought that one of the 2 Poles in the penalty area
    was offside when the initial shot from Urban came in. Maybe my
    interpretation of 'level' is different to every one else, which is why
    I'm not a referee ;-).
    
    The situation as I saw it looked something like this:
    
       |      |
       |--    |
     --  |    |
    |    |   _|
    |    |  |_|<---- defender		Overlapping but not level!!
     --  |  _ |
       |-- |_||<---- attacker
       |      |
       |      |
       |-------
       |
    
    
    	Anyway, that's all history now, and England will be in Sweden next
    summer, and best of luck to them. I hope that Graham Taylor can build
    on the young side he has currently, and in the next 8 months, give the
    new players the experience thay need in the 6 friendlys. I personally
    thought before the game yesterday that he had made a mistake relying on
    new blood for a game as important as this, but I am pleased to say that
    they proved me wrong, and in doing so gained invaluable experience in
    the international arena.
    
    	Finally I want to say bad luck to the Irish. As has been said
    before, they really dug their own grave, but I'm sure they'll bounce
    back and, I'm sure we'll see them in the U.S. in 1994.
    
    Al

    
    I thought it was a definite penalty... 
    - that makes the decision and result even better.......
    
    I feel like a Liverpool supporter after a Merseyside Derby..
    
    Paul

    I'm disappointed and depressed.
    
    We blew it, we have only ourselves to blame. Once we failed to beat
    Poland at Lansdowne Rd., we were always chasing it. Blowing a 2 goal
    lead last month didn't help either. It doesn't matter how England
    played or whether or not it was a penalty, the bottom line is that we
    we had the chances to dominate this group and we didn't take them.
    England, despite some poor performances, still took their chances when
    they came. That's what counts at the end of the day. 
    
    For us, I suppose, it will give some new players a chance. All our
    centre backs are over 30 and we need to start blooding in new players -
    people like Liam Daish, Scott Fitzgerald etc. We did play some good
    football during these qualifiers and there is something in that 4-5-1
    formation that suits us. I think we can build on that, and hopefully
    make the U.S. in 1994.  
    
    England will be a difficult team to beat, and with a player like Gary
    Lineker up front, are bound to score a few. Their midfield needs some
    serious attention though.
    
    Jimm

    
    Its a shame Ireland are in the same group as I would have
    like to see them in Sweden along with England.
    
    My Dad was jubilant about the Ireland result but cried when
    Lineker scored the equaliser.
    
    Slan.
    
    JN.

    >    Well, it looks like ARE BRAVE BOYS are at it again 50 arrests after
    >    a night club was demolished in Poznan one things for sure win or
    >    lose we'll go out fighting.
     
    	W*nkers to a man! Why can't they go and support someone else? 
    
    
    	Jack Charlton? Sour grapes. England may have been lucky, but then
    they were unlucky in Stuttgart in 1988, swings and roundabouts Jack.
    	
    	Hard luck to Ireland, I still believe that with a better manager,
    they would do even better than they are at the moment. 
    
    
    		Steve

    So, congratulations to England, I hope I will see that team in June
    with Waddle and Stevens (they should be in good shape as Marseille was
    eliminated from european cup).
    
    Hard luck for Ireland, but this particular competition is very hard as
    only one team qualifies.
    Things will be better for the world cup.
    
    Let's hope for nice games in Sweden.
    
    Thierry

    
    Good luck to England in Sweden...........
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    because with a crap team like that, they'll need all the luck they
    can get. Never have I seen a team get so much luck in a group as the
    English got in that qualification group. England should have been dead
    and buried before yesterday's game. Also, Ireland lost the group rather
    than England winning the group.
       The referee definately should have awarded a penalty to the Poles
    for that foul by Flash Gordon on the Polish attacker. A second goal
    would have knocked the stuffing out of the English and our boys would
    have gone through.
      Ireland scored 13 goals against a pitiful 7 for the England and it's
    just so sad when the best team throughout the group don't get to the
    finals. People often say things like 'the luck of the Irish' but it was
    the English who had all the luck. 
      Ray Houghton's crucial miss in Wembley proved to be very very costly.
    We also scored eight goals against the Turks while the English managed
    two poxy 1-0 wins.
       It's so sad to see "players" like Woods, Mabbutt, Dixon, Gray,
    Rocastle, Sinton, Smith, haircut Thomas, Batty, etc. go to Sweden when
    the cream of European soccer like Staunton, Whelan, Houghton, McGrath,
    Townsend, Keane and of course that great striker of the modern era,
    John Aldridge fail to make the finals.
        That will be a quiz question for the future. Which strikers
    finished joint top scorers in the group and failed to make the Euro
    finals?  Answer = John Aldridge and Tony Cascarino.
        Once again, England have been steeped in luck. They probably would
    have never won the world cup except for they were playing on home
    ground.
    
         Cunno.
    

    Well,we squeezed through in the end,I dint think England were that bad
    last night.They created all the chances,and really the penalty was all
    the Poles created.The shot that led to the goal was covered by Woods
    until it hit Gary Mabbutt.It got better in the second half when Alan
    Smith came on.It was a definate penalty,but I to thought there was a
    suspition of offside about the shot.Also when Rocastle was through on
    goal the Polish defender clearly handled the ball,he pushed it out with
    his arm,so maybe we were alittle lucky,but you need luck in Football.
     Sir Gary Lineker came up with the goods again,great goal just when I
    was getting seriously worried.
     As for the new players,Sinton started well but faded badly,Andy
    gray...well he's not an international player,and it showed.            
       Rocastle deserves to keep his place,he worked hard as did Geoff
    Thomas.It wasnt the ideal side but by the time Sweden comes round
    hopefully injuries will have cleared up and we will have a squad in
    which all the players have experience.
       Paul Gascoigne is needed,and hopefully he will be fit enough to go
    to Sweden.
        
      I hope we dont get Ireland in the World Cup,I coudnt stand Charlton
    moaning about that aswell.
    
    dave...

    Re  
    <<< Note 30.157 by ESSB::MCUNNIFFE "Liverpool have a divine right to title" >>>
    
    
    
    
    		:-)

	re .157

	Who gives a toss about luck?   (Snigger)

	The Fridge

    
    
     Well, what a tense game to have too sit through why is it that 
     England have to do this to me, my heart can't take much more.
    
     To the game, England got the draw there performance deserved
     having dominated the whole of the second half and restricting the
     Poles to only one effort, the penalty appeal, I must admit from where
     I was sitting it looked blatent but if these teams stop diving
     everytime they are challenged then maybe some of these decision 
     will go there way, and two minutes later Lineker equalised who Said
     footballs a funny old game England have got a long way to go if they
     think thev'e any chance of winning the championship for a start the
     midfield has got to be Taylors priority but hopefully with a fit
     Gasgione to come back that will go along way to solving his problems
     I thought Thomas had his best game in an England shirt and along with
     Platt and maybe Rocastle could be the midfield were looking for.
    
     Anyway he has 6 more internationals to go lets hope he sorts it
     out by the time June comes.
    
                                Neil...........    

 <<< Note 30.157 by ESSB::MCUNNIFFE "Liverpool have a divine right to title" >>>
                   -< England are steeped in luck....again. >-

He is back with a vengence.....

 Now to the F.A. cup and a Tranmere victory next May.............

	re .160

	"Who gives a toss about luck?"

	Well you should because England will need it.

	As for the game, not very good and despite whats being said in the 
	conference Rocastle is a liability. When it gets serious odds on him 
	being sent off.

	Jim

    What a strange feeling it is when you find yourself agreeing with
    the sentiments of Cunno, especially twice in the space of a week.
    I'd much rather have seen the Republic get through and Graham Taylor
    announce his resignation, which of course he would'nt have done. 
    Big Ron's yer man. 
    
    

    
    
    Re 30.157 
    
    	Who was it who said " The harder I practice the luckier I get " ?
    
    	  I think it was Gary Player after being accused of being a lucky
    	sh*te.
    	  If you substitute the word "try" with "practice", It could be 
    	the England team. England worked hard and deserved to win this
        group.
    	  I believe you make your own luck, and if it goes against you,
    	You don't blubber about it, so chin up Martin. 
    	^^^
    	And as for "scored 13 against a pitiful 7"  Correct,well done 
    	Ireland, Aldridge and all , but I think you'll find it's the
    	conceded 6 against a pitiful 3 , which made the difference here !
    
    	
    	CHris
    
       

    
    
    It's nothing to do with goals scored or goals conceeded, England beat
    Poland at home - Ireland didn't.
    
    Tough **** - welcome back to being a third rate football nation....
    
    Paul

    
    
    	Yeah thats what I meant, but I was trying to be polite : )
    
    
    CHris

    >> welcome back to being a third rate football nation....
    
    
    That should keep (Taylor's) England company then. 
    
    Barry.

>>>    That should keep (Taylor's) England company then. 
    
>>>    Barry.
    
    Not really - England will be in Sweden - Ireland won't....
    
    Lots of :-)s
    
    Paul

I think England have finally cottoned on by watching the Germans.

You don't have too be too good in the early stages of a competition.

The odd loss to Algeria, draw or 1-0 win in the 90th minute against
Cyprus or Malta (or Turkey) is OK as long as you make it to the finals
and then you can start to play !!

Nicht wahr ;-)

The only difference is that if you're England, the whole world knocks
you for it !

Lineker does exactly what Gerd Mueller did but with a lot more class !

    >>>>  You don't have to be good in the early stages of a competition.
    
    I think England were good in the early part against Poland and were 
    terrible afterwards.(They must be trying to beat the Germans at
    something).
    
    Good LUCK to England in Sweden. Its points on the board that matter
    and England have it. In relation to big Jack, I think if he had the 
    same English players at his disposel last night, nobody would be 
    worrying about the legality of the peno. Ye would have won handsdown.
    Its hard to stomach something being said by a person who knows the game
    and who states the facts and in relation to him playing for England, if
    you had one or two players in the currant squad that would give as much
    as he gave for his country, then I would see real hope for you in
    Sweden.
    
    P.S. BIG JACK  V  TAYLOR  ------ NO CONTEST FOR BIG JACK
    
    Stephen
    

     re .170
    
    Don't worry if you are German the whole world knocks you aswell if you
    play like this. And even if you play better it takes a long time to
    adjust the bad reputation.
    
    The German national team has a great record over the last years but only
    gained "some" respectation after the good performance in Italy where
    they often played offensive minded and excellent football besides being
    successfull. 
    
    G�nter
    
     

    
    	I'm sure all you Irish lads wish us well in Sweden really ;-) but
    	you all *know* the real reason why England qualified at Ireland's
    	expense. It's no use going on about England being lucky, needing
    	luck to get anywhere, gonna get stuffed in Sweden etc.....
    
    	Ireland didn't win either game against England when they really
    	should have won both on the balance of play, certainly the
    	Wembley match at least. Ireland only won two games out of six,
    	although they remained undefeated which is very creditable.
	Draws are Ok away against group rivals, but eventually you've got
    	to win a big game. England's fine 2-0 win at home to Poland proved
    	the only factor seperating England, Poland and Ireland at the end.
     
        All these bitter sour-grapes notes (with the exception of a few
    	very magnanimous good wishes...) don't help any. Concentrate on
    	getting things right for the WC qualifying.....I'm sure most
    	English fans would be pleased to see you qualify for USA '94 and 
    	would wish *you* well...I certainly would.
    
    	It's over. Ireland had many chances to keep their destiny in their 
    	own hands and were found wanting. As the Scots may yet discover to
    	their cost, if you want a job doing well you may as well do it
    	yourself - don't leave it up to others, they'll let you down...
    
    	Andy.  

    re .166 and .167
    
    How come your team of world beaters cannot defeat our third-raters.
    
    Up yours.
    

	re. -1
	
	Ha ha ha ha. Perhaps a pint of Guiness would help wash down those 
	sour grapes?

	The Fridge.

    Being marooned in one channel land, I had to endure the 5 minute
    updates on Wednesday night.  35, 40, 55, 60, 65, 70, 75 and all was going
    well.  Then just as TGA missed his umpteenth sitter for Ireland in
    the 76th minute the word came that TBL (The Boy Lineker) had scored in
    Poznan.  If the only decent player England have had the
    international skills of TGA we would still be in it. WIth the exception 
    of one game in Stuttgart TBL has escaped the Acquired Immune goal
    deficiency that TGA suffers from.   TGA has to go the road of Magic
    Johnson and retire.
    
    Shane

    well, we left it to late, this time. But we can have no complaints
    of bad luck etc...the last time we got through it was thanks to
    Mackays late goal for Scotland in Bulgaria....ya win some, ya lose
    some. 
    
    Congrats to England, you did  the bizz and the best of Irish Luck
    to you (no, I wouldnt wish *that* bad luck on you8^))...You will
    have to improve and settle before next summer to qualify for the
    semis, I think..your team is much too brittle and is not moving
    with the fluency you had built up in Italy.
    
    Wel, what a sickener wedns night was...nuff said. I pity the poor
    Landlords in the pubs looking forward to a *Huge* nights drinking
    on the night only for Lineker to burst all our dreams. You could
    feel the joy in people just slide out the door. No-one stayed any
    more than 15 minutes after the game finished. It was like a morgue.
    People just stood and looked into space. Oh well, at least we'll
    have a relatively alchohol-free summer and we can just settle and
    enjoy the games on the telly without getting too involved. All that
    strain of Euro-88 and Italy-90 was a bit hard on the emotions. Lets
    hope the Scots can make it through and the Welsh. 
    
    Like most Irishmen, watching England next summer, Half of me will
    be cheering for you and the other half wont. The cheers because
    you're a good people who love football, and you're closer to us
    than any European team. The non-cheers because of so many reasons
    I wont go into...but particularly the bleating of Jimmy Hill etc
    about the best team in the world...blah blah blah!!  Theres nothing
    as bad as a loudmouth spouting nonsense..
                                             
    again good luck, we played well, but not well enough often enough.
    Thats the bottom line.
    
    *Tiger*

         <<< Note 30.166 by BLKPUD::WATTERSONP "No Irish in Sweden" >>>
    
    >>> Tough **** - welcome back to being a third rate football nation....
    
    This attitude is why very few Irish people will find it hard to support
    England in the finals. As Tiger said earlier, we have nothing against
    the English team or supporters, but we have had to endure your press
    and commentators telling us just how good you are, how the team is the
    best in the world. You're not, nor are you the best in Europe by a long
    shot. 
    
    We missed qualification because we made mistakes, we did not take the
    chances that came our way. We played well enough at times but we failed
    to capitalise on it. That's disappointing because had we done, I feel
    we could have done very well in Sweden. England did what they had to do
    and fair play to them. The fact that we now have to put up with Jimmy
    Hill et al will make it an even more bitter pill to swallow next summer.
    
    Jimmy

    
    	Yes, the thought of Chinny Hill almost makes me wish we hadn't
    	qualified too ...
    
    	..he is a prime w*nk*r...even my wife can't stand his arrogant
    	know-it-all attitude and she knows s*d all about football.
    
    	Don't think the English guys like him PLEASE!!! I'd happily watch
    	him drown in a vat of acid!!
    
    	Andy.
    
    	re .177...thanx, Tiger...and I *know* what you mean by the
    	non-related issues too...there's not much we as a noting community
    	can do about that except enjoy a common interest.

    re .179
    
    Paul really got to you didnt he!
    Ian.
    
    p.s i dont think we are the best in Europe either.
    

   >>                                  but we have had to endure your press
   >> and commentators telling us just how good you are, how the team is the
   >> best in the world. 
    
    This seems to be a recurring theme in here.  Perhaps in the last ten
    years or so I've been sleeping but I don't seem to remember this at
    all.  Perhaps someone would be kind enough to supply me with a video 
    of what I've missed or maybe some pointers to articles written by English
    people making the above claim.
    
    Sure the football programmes/press are biased towards England but
    claiming they are the best in the world?  When?  Facts and figures
    please not opinion.
     
   >> You're not, nor are you the best in Europe by a long shot. 
    
    Agreed, what's YOUR problem?  
    
    Mike M

    	Thanks to all the Irish boys for the good wishes.....I would agree
    that you would probably have done well in Sweden...In the end,after
    what I believe was a poor performance in Poznan (we made the chances 
    but didn't have the belief/ability to convert them when we should have)
    I actually would have been happy to see Ireland go through.....Yes,
    England did enough....Yes Ireland have only themselves to blame....I
    know all that,but I still feel that on the whole,Ireland would have 
    ruffled more feathers in Sweden than England will & looking at
    performances  over the whole qualifying group,you turned in the most
    dominant/encouraging performances of all four teams even though you
    did not get the required results...................I also believe 
    that its a shame we are gonna have to hold our breaths & hope that the
    English fans behave themselves.Also,the Irish fans/banter/enjoyment
    /colour will definitely be sorely missed.
    
                                                 

    
    Re .179
    
    The English must be one of the most hated nations in the world anyway-
    so one more Irishman supporting the opposition won't make that much
    difference - see note 103 in EF91 to see how unpopular the English are.
    
    I too despise Jimmy Hill/ Motson/ Davies etc etc - if you think it's
    bad when they show their English bias, it's even worse for us when they
    suddenly become token Irishmen/ Scotsmen and start supporting them
    instead.
    
    Paul
    
    PS - My wife's � Irish

    re .180  SANT...
    
    glad you appreciate the thanx...I hope you do well...However those
    non-football related issues , well, lets just say there isnt the
    chasm that you think between our countries. There are a lot us
    over here who dont have *ANY* time for that lot either, and I think
    you know who I'm talking about...8^)
    
    Good luck.
           
    Can we maybe arrange for Jimmy Hill to be on Jack Charlton's favorite
    duck hunting ground, marked with bright yellow paint, sometime next
    May?    8^)
    
    *Tiger*

    I hope the Irish half is off limits to you tonight and for the rest of
    the week-end!!!!
    
    Paul

    I suggest that the paint should be put on Jimmy's chin!!
    
    Can I say that "tiger" is quite right about there not being that big a
    chasm between us. It's just that it sometimes takes very little to
    widen it. Paul Watterson has the gift to do this but does he have to??
    Why can't he sit back and save up his money for Summer.
    
    cheers,
    
    Paul 

    re. -2
    
    candidate for note of the year?
    ;-)
    Ian.
    

    re. last
    
    -2 should be -3, grief youre so fast!
    Ian.
    

    
    Re .186
    Well she has had a permanent headache since Wednesday..... :-).

    
    
    But seriously, I hope I'm not offending anyone too much, but I'm sure
    you lot(the Irish noters) would have been giving us (English noters) as
    much abuse if Lineker hadn't equalised on Wednesday night..
    
    Paul
                             

    Of course we would have, but that still doesn't make it correct.....
    
    	- Robin

	Now England have struggled through this qualifying group, made difficult
by Ireland, I think they have got an excellent chance of doing well in the
finals. It is likely that Gasciogne, Barnes, Wright and Parker will be back
in the team, plus a number of younger players such as Lee Martin, John Ebbrell,
Shearer, Matthew Le Tissier, and Tony Daley.

	Unfortunately, England do not have the supporters to back up the team
or manager. If only England supporters could behave like Irish supporters
then people like me would go to Sweden. I would love to go out there and have
a good drink, talk loads of rubbish about football, and enjoy the games. However,
I will watch the finals on television in the local pub, and poor old Mats and
people will have to put up with a load of ignorant English pillocks shouting
abuse and vandalising everything.

	At least Graham Taylor tries to win, he is not the nervous, hesitant,
and worried manager Bobby Robson used to be. He picks a team to do a job and
is not afraid to alter plans during the game.

	Bad luck Ireland, but this is not the first time Graham Taylor has
done this to Jack Charlton.

				Steve.


	P.S. I must admit I am a Watford supporter.  

    for the irish noters who are interested in a little revenge...
    
    i will be holding an auction of Paul Wattersons address later.
    Ian.
    

    
    
>>    But seriously, I hope I'm not offending anyone too much, but I'm sure
>>    you lot(the Irish noters) would have been giving us (English noters) as
>>    much abuse if Lineker hadn't equalised on Wednesday night..
    
      Of course, would a Bear sh*t in the woods !!! As I said earlier the 
Banter and great rivalry between genuine football supporters of both nations
is a great asset to the game and especially this notesfile. 

However having said all that, there were some unusual comments made in some of 
the last notes. Regarding the British media and in particular the tabloids and
Messrs Hill & Motson, they are an absolute disgrace to all concerning football.
Remember the personal attacks made on Bobby Robson in Euro'88 & Italia'90, they 
practially pushed the man to a nervous breakdown. My point is that they play on
a persons emotions and a weak character will always suffer at their hands.
On the other hand, and only as an example, Jack Charlton is a strong character
who minds his "P's & Q's" so as not to give the media an edge to lever him from 
his position. As you can see the Irish team are now being blamed as a unit for
not qualifying rather than any one individual. As in Englands case, Taylors job
was on the line on Wednesday night and public pressure fuelled by the "gutter 
media" would have his scalp, had England lost.  

As for England being the best team in the world, the fact remains that this 
stems from a stigma passed from generation to generation. In the last 300 years 
the English almost colonised the whole world and this gave them a somewhat 
false sense of supremacy. This is subconciously portrayed by every decent 
English gentleman. Added to the fact that the won a world cup on home soil in 
1966 this gives them the divine right to be "the best in the world" BUT only
until 1970. They have not given us any hint since 1966, other than the European 
club competitions, that they could reproduce this form. The only reminder of 
the event was the hearlding of the team of '66, 25 years on, as a sense of 
security of their supremacy and as a reminder, lest it be forgotten, of their
fine achievement in Wembley 1966.

And finally in summing up you honour, The matter of all teams wanting to beat 
the English stems from a point that I made earlier about the colonisation of 
certain parts of the world. They plundered and pilfered in those conquests and
as a result, again passed from generation to generation, they are constantly 
a target for defeat. All football teams playing against the English will play 
attacking football so as to "defeat the enemy" early on. The Irish on the other 
hand have a reputation of being an attacking side so many teams defend against
them, the only trouble is that the Irish are not 100% in that department now.

I have no hatred for the English, its just that their view of the world is not
the same as that of the majority of the rest of the globe. Indeed after the 
Americans the English rather than the British are looked on as the bastions
of normal society. Quite an honour. We Irish, well we built half of the USA
and GB so that must count for something.... possibly the fact that half the
Irish football team were born in Great Britian.

Rgds,
Shaughs.

	re .184

>    The English must be one of the most hated nations in the world anyway-

	Come on, now. Most of the world has moved on from hating the
	English to hating the Americans.

	re .195

> the English stems from a point that I made earlier about the colonisation of 
> certain parts of the world. They plundered and pilfered in those conquests and
> as a result, again passed from generation to generation, they are constantly 
> a target for defeat. All football teams playing against the English will play 

	If this argument is valid, then there must be many footballing
	nations who are out to stuff the Spanish.

	Tony

    Paul,
    
    You're not offending anyone. You're committing minor off the ball
    offences with your comments but.....
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    .....that's nothing to what you'd get if we had qualified!!!!!!!!!!
    
    
    
    Paul
    
    
    
    
    

Re .193

>>> I will watch the finals on the television in the local pub, and poor old 
>>> Mats and peaople will have to put with a load of English pillocks shouting
>>> abuse and vandalising everything.

This is exactly the feeling most of the Swedish people have. We have a big 
discussion here about how much money that will be spent on policeprotection and
other arrangement during the tournament.

The best way to succed with a bankrobbery will be next june in some small town
far away from Stockholm, Gothenburg, Malm� and Norrk�ping. The police won't
allow any vacations, and there will be thousands of policemen in those four 
cities. We expect trouble, and we are planning actions to prevent it. There 
will be a footballtournament between different fans, other games and activities
and there will be a big rockgala a couple of nights. About the discussion of 
alcohol, nothing is decided, but i think that the four cities will be dried out
and the pubs will be very careful who they let in.

My hopes was for the Irish, mainly because their reputation of beeing the best
fans in the world (along with the Danish), but i have to admit that England are
playing a better football. Next summer i hope to see many of you noters and
laugh over a beer or two, and even if England where drawn to play here in
Gothenburg with f.ex. Holland and Germany i truely hope that there will be no
violence on the town. I wish you all very welcome to our beautiful town
without fears of getting a bottle in your head just because you wear the
wrong scarf.

Mats (a true fan of Hogan's and Black Bush)

    re -1....
    
    Matts , how do I get to Norkopping?.....
    
    *Tiger*

    
    Well, *Tiger*, since i didn't see any :-), i presume you are serious.
    Take a flight to Stockholm, and then the bus to the Central station.
    Buy a train-ticket to Norrk�ping, it's a 2 hours ride.
    
    Norrk�ping is a quite small town, about 160 kms south of Stockholm. It's
    along E4, about 450 kms from Helsingborg.
    
    About the arena, see topic 92.
    
    Mats

    This may be usefull if you ask your way :
    According to the Swedish in our group Norrk�ping has to be pronounced 
    something like "norshoping"
    
    Thierry (not a swedish expert)
    

    
    I'm in the process of writing up my experiences in Turkey.  I was one
    of the lucky ones that got in and that didn't get beaten up.
    
    As for qualifying well, we came so close but intruth we didn't deserve
    it.  We may have been the best side in the group but we failed to win
    our 3 previous games each of which should have been won.  We failed to
    put England away at Wembley, we failed at home to Poland and then in
    Poznan we had the game won and blew it.  A win in any of those 3 games
    would have been enough.  We played very well last Wednesday with a
    scratch side.  Yes England were lucky on a few occasions but we have
    only ourselves to blame.
    
    As for the organisation (or rather the lack of it) and the attacks on
    Irish fans I wouldn't wish the Turkish fans on anyone even the minority
    of hooligans among the English fans.  This was in support of a team
    which had no goals and no points.  I dread to think what it would have
    been like if they had a chance of qualifying.
    
    Gary. 

    Mats,
    can you give me directions for the local bank when I get off the
    train at NordKopping?   8^)....
    
    Gary,
    
    glad you made it back alive..by all accounts it was a nightmare.
    A friend of mine came back with loads of leather for his mott.
    No, not bondage gear, just suits and jackets....the swine..
    the rest of us husbands /boyfriends are getting grief about how
    generous and thoughtful Des is. huh!
    
    *Tiger*

    Gary,
    
    I was inside in Murphy's watching the news and having a quiet scoop
    when I saw your head nodding away behind Charlton.
    
    You have neck for 4 giraffes!!!!  Welcome back.
    
    Paul

    I heard a 69 year old man on the Gerry Ryan show on Monday who was
    attacked by Turks.  This prompted a barage of calls with similar
    experiences - two girls were kidnapped for 4 hours, we were spared the
    details; two eldery men in my father's hotel suffered a broken nopse
    and 15 stitches repectively; another fan got 18 stitches after being
    split inside the ground with a bolt - all medical attention was refused
    - they had to flee the threat of a beating by the police who brought
    them to a medical room minus anything except darkness and 4 walls; 
    several fans couldn't get their seats as they were occupied by police!;
    two couples were beaten up 100 yds from their hotel....
    
    Considering some of the punishments teams such as Bohs, Celtic,
    Newcastle, Leeds etc. have had meted out by UEFA over the years, often
    for relatively minor incidents, these bastards should be banned from
    playing home games for many years.
    
    THE FAI have made an official complaint.
    
    Shane

    They won't Shane because a wide spectrum of opinion, most of it outside
    football, will start screaming prejudice etc.
    
    Paul

    
    The next 2 notes are very long.  The first contains an account of my
    trip to Poland and the second an account of my trip to Turkey.
    
    The Poland one was written a couple of weeks ago.
    
    
    Gary.

          Prolog
          This is an account of a journey by 4 Irish fans - Paddy Scully,
          Jerry O'Dwyer, Tony O'Sullivan and I to Poland to watch the
          recent European championship qualifier.  Paddy's fom Tralee now
          living in Dublin, Tony and Jerry both live in Hospital, Co.
          Limerick while I'm originally from Limerick now living in
          Galway.


          The 15.10 train from Galway is supposed to arrive in Dublin at
          18.15.  It was almost 2 hours late and I had a boat to catch.
          Not a good start to a holiday.  I met Tony as planned on the
          boat.  Paddy and Jerry were going to London by air.  The
          crossing and the train to London went smoothly and we arrived in
          London at 9am on Saturday morning.  We had tried to get an evening
          flight in the hope of catching a game in London but this was not
          to be and we left Heathrow for Warsaw that morning on LOT
          airlines.  LOT provided us with a delicious hot meal.  Was this
          going to be our last decent meal for a few days?  I had stocked
          up with biscuits, sweets and a few cans of coke.  It later
          transpired that I needn't have bothered.

          Paddy was duly waiting in Warsaw having arrived 10 minutes
          earlier.  There were a few football fans in the airport but most
          weren't arriving until the following Monday and Tuesday.  We
          hadplanned to hire a car for the five days but on seeing that
          the prices matched those of at home we decided to wait until
          Monday.  We had booked a hotel for the first night and we
          intended to play it by ear after that.  A Taxi eventually
          brought us to the Maria Hotel in Jana Pawla Street. He insisted
          that I'd made a mistake and that it was the Marriott Hotel I
          wanted which is the most expensive hotel in Poland.  A colleague
          finally set him right and we got there eventually.
          I'd been to Eastern Europe twice before but never to Poland.  My
          first impressions were that it was very similiar to Hungary and
          the former East Germany.  The same dull grey buildings and lots
          of dilapidated apartment blocks.  There were quite a few Polish
          registered western cars about and it soon became obvious that
          there were quite a few rich people in Poland although the
          majority of the people are far worse off than we are.  A much
          needed shower in the hotel and we wandered into town.  There's a
          large market in central Warsaw with just about everything on
          sale.  In America, dollars can buy you absolutely anything while
          zlotys are virtually worthless.  Poland was the same although
          with the legalisation of the black market and a proper exchange
          rate there is less of a demand for dollars.  Anything available
          in western Europe was also available here often at a fraction of
          the price although by Polish standards these were ridiculously
          expensive.  After a couple of hours we decided to go back and
          try the hotel restaurant for dinner.  The food wasn't bad but a
          little expensive.  We got stung when we ordered dessert.  It








          wasn't on the menu but he offered us ice cream which cost us
          �2.50 each almost as much as the main course.  We vowed to eat
          somewhere else the following day.

          Warsaw shuts down around 7pm and it's difficult to find a
          restaurant or anything open.  My efforts to try and find a
          football match the following day were proving fruitless.  All
          first division were cancelled and the nearest second division
          game was a couple of hundred kilometres away.  With nothing on
          we decided on an early night but first we tried to get the score
          of the Scotland v Ireland rugby match that afternoon.  I
          discovered you can't ring Ireland from Poland unless you book a
          call 3 hours in advance and then wait another 2 or 3 hours.
          Although football comes first I am keen on the oval ball game
          and I was anxious to know the score.  My sister in London wa the
          obvious choice.  "Hello Tara what was the score in the Rugby
          match today?" "What Rugby match??"  "AAAARRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHH" end
          of conversation.  Cost �3 for about 40 seconds.  We got the
          score the following night when we met 2 Irish fans who had just
          arrived.
          Having failed to find any better information on a game we took a
          chance on the Taxi driver's hunch that Polonia were at home.
          Actually it was their second string who play in the regional 3rd
          division so we spent Sunday morning in the company of 100 other
          hardened souls watching Polonia reserves play team xxx.  I
          thought we were watching a team called Goscie but apparently
          that's the Polish for "visitors."  My Polish was improving all I
          knew the previous day were a few swear words.  We spent the
          afternoon in the old section of Warsaw which is the only part
          worth seeing.  This was full of tourists and the cobbled streets
          and fascinating old buildings gave it an olde world charm.  We
          paid a visit to the Marriott Hotel to book a car for the
          following day and sampled the local Vietnamese restaurant which
          had come highly recommended and rightly so.

          We discovered that a Jazz Club actually stayed open late (late =
          after 7pm) and Paddy and I decided to give it a try.  The �3
          admission fee wasn't bad and the drinks were reasonable..  This
          was obviously a tourist haunt as the clientel were all Western
          European.  The tables were pretty close together so Paddy and I
          resorted to speaking in Irish.  I was surprised how much I
          actually remembered and we enjoyed the obvious confusion we were
          causing at the next table. The French couple could obviously
          overhear us but they couldn't work out what we were saying and
          where we were from.  Eventually the girl turned to us during the
          interval and asked "Is it over" when she didn't get a response
          she switched to German before we finally put them out of their
          misery.  It turned out she was a linguist and she was totally
          baffled.  She had us as Northern European (despite my surname I
          don't look like my ancestors) but that's as much as she could
          guess.  We had an interesting conversation (in English and
          pidgeon French) before getting the last bus back to the Hotel.
          We had planned to drive to Bydgoszcz the following day but the








          receptionist in the Hotel arranged a Hotel in Poznan for us
          although it was steep at �20 a night.  Poznan is 300 kilometers
          from Warsaw(we were even thinking in kilometers at this stage)
          and driving in Poland can be quite hair raising.  The road
          surface is excellent and there is a hard shoulder everywhere
          which gets used quite a bit.  To overtake you pull out and force
          the oncoming car into the hard shoulder.  Paddy and I shared the
          driving but he was fortunate enough to get the last 100
          kilometers which is a motorway into Poznan.  There were police
          everywhere checking for speeding and we spotted quite a few
          people being stopped.  The local cars aren't capable of breaking
          the speed limit of 90kph so they were solely there to catch
          foreigners and rich locals in foreign cars.   A roadside picnic
          was interrupted by a busload of Soviet tourists returning from
          Germany in a ramshackle coach.  Most of the traffic is local
          traffic as the train fare from Warsaw to Poznan is �2 return.
          However the roads are always busy and there are lots of trucks
          on the roads which makes driving difficult.

          When we arrived in Poznan I suggested to the lads that we try
          and look for a cheaper hotel first.  They'd been thinking the
          same.  We tried the first place right in the centre of the city
          and thought there was a mistake when they said it was �6.50 a
          night each for B&B.  It wasn't and a quick phone call to the
          Hotel Poznan cancelled our reservation.and we headed out for a
          good meal.  Poznan is a much livlier place than Warsaw and much
          more attractive.  The locals appeared friendlier too.  We called
          down to the Hotel Poznan in the hope of finding somebody with
          the L.O.I. scores.  Donie Butler relayed the bad news about
          Limerick's home defeat by Cobh Ramblers.  On leaving the Hotel
          we met John Aldridge and Stephen Staunton.  They stopped to talk
          to us for a couple of minutes and signed some of the local money
          as a souvenir.   The players were very approachable and
          friendly.  While walking back to our Hotel we met Monsignor Liam
          Boyle a Limerick priest and football fan.  He was with Jack
          Charlton.  Liam had become chaplain to the team out in Italy
          after arranging an audience with the Pope.  He travels to all
          away games and now spends a lot of time with the team.  We were
          introduced to Jack as the Limerick contingent.  Paddy being a
          Kerryman was not too pleased but that was more than made up for
          by meeting Jack.  They were surpriseded that we were venturing
          up to Bydgoszcz the following day for the U21 game.  We wished
          Jack the best and arranged to meet the Monsignor again the
          following evening.  Just our luck we get to meet Jack and a
          couple of players and our cameras were back in the Hotel.  Still
          there was always tomorrow.
          I drove to Bydgoszcz the following morning pasing 6 speed traps
          on the 90 mile trip.  We were off the beaten track a bit now but
          it was interesting to travel through parts of a country rarely
          visited by tourists.  The landscape is quite dull in Poland but
          driving there is still fascinating.  Our sightseeing in Poland
          was dictated by the location of the football but both Poznan and
          Bydgoszcz turned out to be well worth visiting.  Bydgoszcz was








          one of the nicest places we saw.  We manged to stroll around
          town for about an hour before the game grabbing a quick bite to
          eat.  The local side Zawista are currently 4th in the 1st
          division despite only gaining promotion last spring.  This was
          both an Olympic and European U21 championship qualifier and a
          victory for Poland would see them through at England's expense.
          We were already out.  Live television coverage affected the
          crowd but not the number of riot police.  There were hundreds of
          them at the ground and we were the only 4 Irish fans there.  The
          best seats in the house cost only �2.50 and our budget did
          extend to this.  This was a section of plastic seats with wooden
          benches everywhere else although the stadium was pretty
          impressive.  We met some local fans including Krzysztof Sciesiek
          who claimed to be supporting Ireland.  He has lost any love for
          his homeland due to the poor circumstances of his childhood and
          he's developed a love for British football..  His trips to these
          games were really special to him.  He is also a fanatical
          Livepool supporter.  He claimed he wanted Ireland or England to
          qualify. I tried to explain that obviously Ireland were our
          first preference, our second was Poland and England qualifying
          came way down the list after a nuclear holocaust.  We swopped
          addresses anyway and I've promised to send him a Limerick City
          badge.  Ray Treacy's bus arrived then with about 50 fans who had
          paid STG�15 for a trip to the game including STG�5 for a seat on
          a wooden bench.  This was on top of the �459 for a 3 day trip.
          Despite car hire and the extra couple of days we worked out a
          lot better than that but then this is the age old argument
          between package tours and go it alone travellers.  I'm firmly
          convinced that you're better off on your own but obviously
          hundreds disagree and they'll all be back to Ray Treacy and co
          again and again.

          Having seen the U21s three times already in this competition I
          was expecting another hammering of Brentford proportions but
          this game was a pleasant surprise.  We controlled much of the
          first half but unfortunately all our best chances fell to Vinny
          Arkins who is fast becoming the John Aldridge of the U21s.  Tony
          Cousins was magnificent. Scott Fitzgeral outstanding in defence
          and West Ham player Matthew Rushe looks a good prospect even if
          he did incur the wrath of the home fans.  Fergus O'Donoughue
          also impressed in midfield.  The Poles were getting edgey as the
          game headed for a scoreless draw.  This would have left the door
          ajar again for England but a mistake by Fergus O'Donoughue let
          the Poles in for an undeserved goal on 78 minutes.  This was the
          prelude to scenes of mass jubilation.  Minutes later Tony
          Cousins struck the underside of the bar with a free kick which
          silenced the Poles for a moment.  however a second goal in the
          last minute killed the game.  Apparently Brian McKenna the UCD
          keeper was blamed for this but I thought he was desperately
          unlucky.  The other Irish fans were whisked back to Poznan by
          bus but we wandered around the town for an hour after the game
          getting nothing but friendly waves from the locals.  The local
          riot police were probably suffering from boredom at this stage.








          Back in Poznan we returned to the team's Hotel, this time armed
          with cameras.  We did manage to get a couple of photographs with
          Packie Bonnar and Chris Hughton courtesy of Liam Boyle and we
          then headed out for something to eat.  We had to be satisfied
          with sandwiches in a bar with quite a few other Irish fans and
          some locals.  This was a continental style bar more accustomed
          to selling coffee and food rather than alcohol.  Paddy ended up
          talking to some locals in a mixture of German and English (I
          still didn't get to use my Polish swearwords).  They were
          drinking non alcoholic champagne which sounds revolting but it
          tastes really nice.  At about 9pm one of the Irish fans stood on
          a chair and started singing.  The bartender immediately called
          for the police but he reaised that they weren't doing any harm
          and furthermore were spending a fortune so when the police
          arrived they were promptly told to go away.  The bar was
          actually drunk dry and the 15th October is now recognized as
          Christmas Day in Poznan.

          I'm an avid programme collector and I drove out with Tony and
          Paddy to the ground the following morning to get the match
          programme.  The concrete floodlight pylons are the most striking
          feature of a not too impressive stadium.  The Poles are learning
          capitalism real fast and charged �1.50 per programmes which is a
          fortune in Polish terms.  A seat for a Polish fan was �4
          although  it was 3 times that for Irish supporters.  �12 is very
          reasonable for a European championship qualifer but we still
          felt ripped off.  We had got our tickets before coming out but
          they were freely available on the day of the game.  We finished
          off any remaining shopping before going back out to the stadium
          in plenty of time for the kick off.  I love arriving early for
          big games and soaking up the atmosphere outside.  Again the riot
          police were much in evidence and again they were totally
          unnecessary.  We met some Lech Poznan supporters who were very
          knowledgable about football.  The atmosphere inside the ground
          was electric.  While we hadn't seen many Irish fans on our
          travels they had travelled in numbers.  The usual mass of flags
          and banners and the Poles were outsung by the 3,000 travelling
          fans.  "Always look on the bright side of life" is the latest
          addition to the repetoire and this was sung with much gusto.
          How prophetic and appropriate it proved to be.  There were many
          familiar faces in the crowd and some new ones.  Many had
          travelled from home as well as London and the continent being
          well represented.  There's an empathy among football supporters
          that cannot be explained.  10 minutes into the game and we were
          in ecstacy.  Was this going to be our night?  A hairline offside
          decision cost us another but we seemed well in control.  At half
          time somebody mentioned Turkey but we had to win this one first.
          Disaster struck early in the second half with the Poles equalising.
          A lesser side would have buckled but we came roaring back.
          First Andy Townsend and then Tony Cascarino appeared to have
          ensured victory.  We celebrated as the Poles headed for the
          exits.  The home side appeared to have given up and I was
          wondering how to tell my boss about Turkey.  The rest is
          history.  2 disasterous goals have put England back in the








          driving seat and severely damaged our hopes of qualifying.  At
          the final whistle were in shock.  We just stood in a daze too
          numb for words.  How did we blow this one?  The Polish fans were
          waiting outside to swop scarves etc. A bond had grown betwen the
          supporters and despite our obvious grief we put a brave face on
          it.  A defiant chorus of  "Always look on the bright side of
          life" hid some of the pain but Bill Shankly's immortal words
          "Football is not a matter of life and death. It's much more
          important than that" seemed so apt.

          Paddy and I shared the 4 hour drive back to Warsaw.  As the
          night wore on our mood improved.  It wasn't over yet.  My
          thoughts were turning to Turkey and I wsn't the only one.  Tony,
          Jerry and I had an early start the following morning.  We were
          splitting up in London but planned to meet again at Chelsea v
          Liverpool on Saturday.  Tony was also planning to go to
          Aldershot v Rotherham with me on Friday night. Paddy had planned
          to go home straight away.  He had thought about staying in
          London for a few days but now the subject wa raised "Are you
          going to Turkey?"  It had all seemed so clearcut I had just
          enough holidays for one game and hardly enough money for one
          game.  This was it.  There was no way I could possibly go to
          Turkey but the answer was still Yes.  Paddy was probably going
          too.  Tony was in a pensive mood on Thursday morning, this had
          been our 4th away game this year. Turkey would be 5.  He decided
          to head straight back to Ireland.  He was going to Turkey as was
          Jerry.   Turkey will definitely be my last trip for a while.
          Sweden is still a long way off even if we do get there.  My boss
          and bank manager wre accomodating although I'd already booked
          and paid for my Istanbul flight on Visa before asking.  "It's OK
          this time but this has to be the last one for a while."  That's
          no problem the friendlies in the New Year are all at home there
          are no trips for ages now. That is unless Poland win 4-0 in
          Poznan and we win 1-0 in Istanbul and we head off somewhere in
          Europe for a playoff in December.  Still I'm sure I'll find a
          way to explain that one in the unlikely event of it coming off.


                                                          Gary Spain.

          Less than 3 weeks after returning home from Poland we were
          travelling again.  I drove to Dublin this time and flew out with
          Paddy on the 7.40 flight to Gatwick on Saturday morning.  Tony
          was duly waiting in Victoria having arrived via Slattery's bus
          while Jerry was taking a few days holidays in London as well.
          With no first division matches on that day we didn't have a
          great choice of games.  We had planned to go to Watford v
          Leicester particularly as it suited Jerry who was staying out
          there however on the toss of a coin we eventually settled on
          Charlton v Blackburn at West Ham.  My sister Tara had kindly
          volunteered to let Paddy and I stay that night so we deposited
          our bags in her house and headed off to Upton Park.  As Kevin
          Moran was playing for Blackburn we went in the Away end.
          Despite being in the top 4 Charlton are very poorly supported
          and there was little atmosphere.  Indeed one side of the ground
          was closed.  Blackburn won a reasonably entertaining game 2-0
          but Kevin Moran's poor performance was a major worry.  The
          visiting supporters provided some light hearted entertainment on
          the tube too.  The club are trying to buy their way out of
          division 2 and will probably succeed.  We went to a fireworks
          display on Twickenham that night followed by a later night than
          we'd planned.  Next stop Istanbul nd the excitement was
          mounting.
          We headed out to Gatwick early Sunday morning and we were there
          3 hours before departure.  This proved to be a wise decision
          given the long queues for checkin.  Greenair managed to change
          the flight number which caused much confusion.  Still we were
          getting to Istanbul for STG�159 return so we couldn't complain.
          I don't think there was a cheaper way to get there by air.  Our
          flight was full with quite a few Irish on it.  Our flight took
          3� hours and with the 2 hour time difference it was 8pm local
          time when we arrived.  I had booked us into the Maya Hotel in
          Lalelli (one of the many districts in Istanbul) for the first
          night and after that we were on our own.  The hotel was very
          comfortable and at �10 a night we couldn't complain about the
          price.  We walked around for a couple of hours.  I had the first
          division fixtures for the following weekend and the top 4 sides
          were meeting in the league.  Games are normally played on
          Sundays but are sometimes switched to Saturdays for live
          television.  We were in luck as we discovered that Fenerbahce v
          Besiktas would be played the following Saturday at 1pm.  This
          was 2nd v 1st and it would mean we'd see a local derby as well
          as the 2 Irish games.  It also meant we'd see a game in all 3
          stadia in the city.  We got our first introduction to the
          numerous street pedlers of this city.  They sell everything from
          fake perfume to their sisters.  Most of them appeared to have
          fake Lacoste socks and we were offered these about every 30
          seconds.  These guys don't take No for an answer and we were
          learning lessons already "Never hold anything for them as it's
          effectively bought" and "Never buy anything on the first night."
          They will take any currency even Irish pounds.  They were








          quickly to prove tiresome but we enjoyed the first night.  A
          quick survey of the Hotels in the area proved beneficial as one
          across the road was only charging �5 per night.  It wasn't as
          comfortable as the Hotel Maya but it was clean and had a shower
          and toilet in the room.  This was a low low budget holiday so
          the Hotel Florida became our base for the rest of the week.  We
          even bargained them down from $9 to $7.50 each.  Everything in
          Turkey is negotiable.

          Monday morning we woke at 5.30am.  We didn't have a choice.  Our
          Hotel was right beside a Mosque (you can't get far from a Mosque
          in Istanbul) and the call to prayer was broadcast over the
          loudspeakers.  This consists of a siren followed by a mullah
          wailing something at the top of his voice.  I like to think I'm
          tolerant of most religions but not of those that wake me at 5.30
          on a Monday morning.  This happens at 4 other times during the
          day but they are at more reasonable hours.  I was keen to secure
          tickets for the Fenerbahce v Besiktas game so we headed across
          the Bosphorus to the Asian side to do a bit of sightseeing and
          get the tickets.  The tickets weren't even printed yet and there
          wasn't much to see on the far side of the strait.  We were
          beginning to realise that this country was totally disorganised
          but somehow it survived.  Still it was cheap.  The bus to the
          ferryport was only TL1,500 (about 30p) and the ferry to Kadikoy
          cost the same.  We spent the afternoon in the Grand Bazaar which
          has to be seen to be believed.  By chance the person we asked
          for directions turned out to be the son of one of the shop owners.
          He walked us to the Bazaar and to his shop where Jerry purchased
          some carpets and gold.  I know very little about either and
          having already intimated to my family and friends that there
          would be no presents brought back this time my purchases were
          limited to a sweatshirt and T-shirt for myself.  The Turks are
          very persistant with people outside every shop trying to drag
          you in.  They generally offer you tea (it's an insult to refuse)
          and try to coax you into buying stuff.  I drank the tea and
          enjoyed watching the bargaining although I'd already spent more
          than I'd planned.  The Turks appeared to be friendly but in some
          cases this is just an attempt at ripping you off.  They are also
          football mad and our colours were causing quite a stir.  We were
          among the few fans that had arrived early.  Most of the tourist
          attractions were within walking distance of our Hotel but that
          night we headed into the centre and promptly got ripped off in a
          bar.  We weren't the only ones.  This was to be the first of
          many sour experiences in Istanbul.
          Tuesday meant a trip to see the U21s at the Ali Sami Yen stadium
          which is the home ground of Galatasaray one of the top teams in
          Turkey.  This was quite a long distance from the Hotel but the
          bus proved to be remarkably quick.  We arrived 3 hours before
          kickoff to discover that no programme was available.  There was
          nothing to see in the area so we headed back into the Inonu
          Stadium to watch the team train.  This was to be the location of
          the main game and is the home of Besiktas who are currently top
          of the Turkish league.  Getting into training sessions can be a








          big problem.  I didn't even bother trying in Germany or Italy.
          Generally in western Europe there is too much security.  Anyway
          we decided to chance our arm and not only were we allowed in the
          stadium but we were allowed on the pitch.  This was too good to
          be true and we got quite a number of great photographs with the
          players and Jack.  We also met up with Monsignor Boyle again who
          informed us that Limerick city had drawn 1-1 with Longford the
          previous Sunday.  I also managed to make the 6pm news at home
          that evening being photographed behind Jack.  I'm still trying
          to live that one down.  Jerry was interviewed for RTE but I
          don't think it was broadcast.  After that it was back to the Ali
          Sami Yen.  Since the Turks failed to produce a programme I was
          keen to get the press teamsheet for my collection.  Needless to
          say nobody knew where the journalists were supposed to go in.  I
          asked a few people and one turned out to be a Turkish journalist
          also looking for the entrance.  We found it eventually and he
          even got me in despite the misgivings of the doorman.  It was an
          hour before kickoff and I hoped to grab a couple of temasheets
          and head back out to the lads and go and watch the game with
          them.  Unfortunately the teamsheets weren't ready yet so I
          arranged to meet the lads in their seats before kickoff.  The
          teams were on a whiteboard and as I was the only Irishman there
          I was suddenly much in demand.  I manged to correct the numerous
          errors and help out with the clubs that the players played with.
          I made it clear that Vinny Arkins was not the reserve keeper but
          I hadn't a clue who Connell was although he must be the
          goalkeeper.  It turned out he was John Connolly of Bohemians.
          One Turkish journalist who was very knowledgeable on football in
          these islands was very keen to get a s much information as
          possible on the league of Ireland.  I gave him my phone number
          and promised to supply him with any details he needed.  He also
          explained that I'd have big problems getting the programme the
          following evening as it's mainly for journalists and V.I.P.s
          with some given to locals in the stand but none to foreigners.
          He promised to get me one and drop it to my Hotel but I never
          heard from him again.  He was the first but not the last Turk we
          met to break his word.  At this stage I was now very welcome and
          they wanted me to stay in the pressbox for the game.  I was
          still hoping to get over to the lads but the teamsheets hadn't
          arrived.  Tony Incenzo who did some work for Century arrived
          minutes before kickoff and a couple of Irish journalists finally
          showed their faces.  apparently none of them bothered going to
          the game in corresponding Poland which I find absolutely incredible.
          The game kicked off with still no teamsheets and I had now
          decided to stay in the pressbox.  It was obviously more
          comfortable and I had a great seat.  The teamsheets finally
          arrived 10 minutes after kickoff and I managed to get a few.  At
          least I'd have one each for the lads who were probably quite
          pissed off with me at this stage.  I sat beside Tony Incenzo and
          Robert Reid and wondered what it would be like to write football
          reports rather than software.  The few hundred travelling fans
          were getting a rough time from the fanatical Turks.  Many of
          them appeared to spend the whole game taunting the Irish and I








          later met one fan who got a badly gashed leg after being hit by
          a large stone.  This just missed the head of the fan in front.
          Admission was free to the game which attracted a 25,000 crowd.
          The Turks took a deserved first half lead as we left our
          Bygodzcz form behind.  The Irish defence was all at sea as a moderate
          home side were made to look world beaters.  Barry O'Connor
          grabbed an equaliser early in the second half which silenced the
          Turks and we looked like winning it for a while before losing
          the initiative and eventually the game to a late but deserved
          winner although TV evidence later proved that it was offside.
          The celebrations afterwards were something special and the
          pressbox allowed me access to the pitch to take some photos of
          the team being carried off shoulder high.  I met the lads
          afterwards but we were subjected to much hassle and abuse from
          the home fans as they tried to beg. borrow and steal our
          colours.  Some female Irish fans were "touched up" coming out of
          the game.  This practice is apparently commonplace and even some
          male fans suffered the same fate.  Thankfully we didn't have to
          endure anything like that.  Watching football in Turkey is quite
          an experience and this was only the U21 game.  We did some
          sightseeing around the old walls of the city that evening before
          heading back for a meal and a few drinks.

          By the morning of the game the Turks were whipped into a frenzy.
          Our appearance in the Bazaar in green and white caused every
          Turk in the place to start chanting "Turkiye."  They were so
          sure of victory it was incredible.  Jerry was promised a carpet
          if Ireland won but he had to relinquish his scarf if we lost.  A
          shopowner made a deal with me that I'd get a free leather jacket
          if we won but that I'd have to buy one if we lost.   I was
          unfortunately about to discover that a Turk's word isn't worth
          the paper it's written on.  On 5 separate occasions in the week
          5 different people failed to keep their word although Jerry was
          to eventually get his carpet.  We visited The Blue Mosque,
          Topkapi Palace and a couple more of the touristy places before I
          headed off to the game on my own at 2pm.  My programme
          collection was taking priority again and this time it was almost
          very costly.  A Taxi driver tried to rip me off by setting the
          meter at 10 times the correct starting figure.  You have no
          protection against drivers taking the scenic route which happens
          frequently but this guy was going too far.  I hopped out a
          hundred yards down the road and left him to con some other
          traveller.  Some of the Turkish people are the nicest people
          you'll meet but many more are just conmen.  I got the bus to
          Taxsim Square instead and 4 football fans showed me where to get
          off.  Instead of walking the 10 minutes to the game they
          suggested getting a Taxi.  I agreed without thinking and only
          realised when I was inside that I was completely at  their
          mercy.  They could have taken me anywhere.  They didn't.  They
          were just being friendly and helpful and refused to take my
          share of the Taxi fare despite my insistence.  Despite arriving
          over 4� hours prior to kickoff there were thousands of Turks
          outside waiting for the gates to open.  I looked in vain for
          another friendly face but I appeared to be the only Irish fan








          there.  My efforts to get a programme were thwarted with the
          news that they hadn't arrived yet.  I finally spotted another
          fan just up from Izmir.  He had travelled from Bradford and was
          ticketless.  I tried to help him get a ticket but the police
          didn't apppear to know where to go.  We were eventually sent to
          the far side of the stadium which proved to be a big mistake.
          We were surrounded by hundreds of Turks shaking their fists in
          our faces chanting "F%&k You Ireland."  We managed to push our
          way through to a wall and eventually sprinted back towards the
          police with a shower of missles in our wake.  One lemon passed
          just by me also just missing a policeman who didn't appear to
          notice.  He was probably as scared as I was.  We waited outside
          the official's entrance in the hope of getting a ticket and a
          programme.  A Turk with an Aussie accent then came around and he
          suggested going back over to the other side as it was possible
          to pay at the gate.  He also wanted to get into the Irish
          section.  The police left the Irish fan in for free this time to
          keep him away from the Turks.  I later met him inside.  The Turk
          wasn't allowed in.  I headed back to meet the 3 lads as arranged
          at 5pm.  By chance I bumped into them at 4.30 and explained that
          I still didn't have a programme and I would wait outside until I
          could get one.  Paddy was engrossed in conversation with 3
          Theology students that he'd just met and I arranged to meet them
          inside.  We had numbered seats so that shouldn't be a problem.
          I went back over to the official's gate.  I explained what I
          wanted again but I was told it was not possible to give me one.
          The programmes are not for Irish I was told.  Only journalists,
          special people and Turks get them.  The only official who spoke
          English was being most unhelpful.  I explained to some policeen
          what I wanted and that I was a collector of programmes.  I told
          them I'd every Irish International programme since 1934
          (actually I only have the homes although I do have quite a few
          aways).  They even asked on my behalf but the official was
          unmoved.  He then said there was no programme although at this
          stage I'd actually caught a brief glimpse of the elusive item
          when the door had opened.  At 6pm having seen I was as
          persistent as the street pedlers another official finally
          relented and gave me one.  It's a beautiful colour issue and
          they could have sold thousands to Irish fans.  I still cannot
          understand the logic behind their thinking.  Some other fans got
          programmes by swopping scarves with Turks but probably only a
          handful of programmes came back.  I had promised to bring back
          quite a few but under the circumstances I was mightily relieved
          to get one for myself.  I headed back around and by chance the
          lads were still talking to the 3 theology students.  This was
          later to prove to be a great blessing as otherwise we'd never
          have met up inside.  We queued up and got into the ground just
          getting a seat.  The Turks had already filled their sections and
          thousands were sure to be locked out.  The Irish section
          continued to fill up with every available inch now taken.  Every
          safety law in the book was broken as fans were allowed to pay at
          the gate with hundreds of ticket holders locked out.  The steps
          and all seats were full.  The travel companies must shoulder a








          tiny part of the blame as their buses arrived within an hour of
          kickoff however the Turk's total lack of organisation almost
          caused a riot.  Had hundreds of travelling fans with tickets of
          almnost any other country in Europe being treated in such a
          manner a riot would have ensued.  It doesn't matter whether or
          not you have a ticket.  It's simply first come, first served.
          The Turks are fanatical fans, they were singing and chanting for
          hours, letting off smoke bombs and fire crackers.  I've seen in
          some intimidating crowds but this was something special.  The
          World cup game at Windsor seemed like a picnic in comparison.
          I've been to many games all over Europe but this was incredible.
          They Turks were spitting blood.  It was a frightening experience
          and we were glad of the hundreds of police keeping them away
          from us.  Turkey actually dominated the opening minutes before
          John Byrne scored from Mick McCarthy's long throw.  The
          celebrations started in our section only to be thwarted by what
          looked a dubious penalty.  We were still quite confident as we
          gradually took control but it was still 1-1 at the break.  Then
          the news came through from Poznan that England were 1 down and
          all hell broke loose.  We started waving the Polish flag I'd
          acquired in Poznan and dreaming of Stockholm in June.  8 minutes
          into the second half it appeared to be a reality.  We were 3-1
          up and cruising but what was happening in Poznan?  Chants of
          "What's the score in Poland?" fell on deaf ears.  At the final
          whistle the truth slowly dawned on us the players didn't look
          like a team that had just qualified for the finals. Mick
          McCarthy ran over with the sad news and it was like a knife
          through the heart (the Turkish police ensured it was the only
          knife through the heart we got that night).  Our celebrations
          were cut short and despite a defiant chorus of "Always look on
          the bright side of life" this hurt.  We had been so close.  Even
          then we didn't realise that there were only 13 minutes left when
          Gary Lineker equalised and that the Poles were denied a penalty
          2 minutes earlier.

          The next problem was getting out of the ground alive.  The
          police kept us in for 45 minutes despite our protests.  When
          they opened the gates and we saw the lynching mob outside we
          wished they'd close them again.  One Irish fan covered in blood
          staggered in saying we'd be mad to go out.  The police then
          ordered the tour buses around to our exit gate while they formed
          a cordon to keep the fans away.  7 or 8 fire engines went past
          in the meantime as the home fans had apparently set the stadium
          alight upon leaving.  I had planned to go and look for programmes
          but at this stage safety was the only priority.  My colours were
          in the bag but unfortunately I still looked Irish.  Tony met a
          friend who had travelled with 747 travel and he suggested
          getting on their bus which was heading in our direction.  The
          police were urging everyone to get on the buses.  The buses were
          stoned and apparently many fans were attacked but we escaped
          although it's pretty frightening being in a bus when a stone
          hits it.
          There was no question of us wearing Irish colours anymore








          although the majority of the locals were still friendly.  The
          hooligan minority however were a major threat.  The gloom hadn't
          really lifted by Thursday morning.  I sensed that Paddy and
          Jerry were having second thoughts about Saturday's game but we
          went in search of tickets anyway.  They were freely available
          and we paid TL 100,000 for the best seats (and presumably the
          safest) despite the fact that the tickets were marked TL 75,000.
          The officials claimed it was a mistake.  �14 wasn't bad to see
          the top 2 teams in the league meet in a local derby but
          considering the average wage in Turkey is �100 per month this
          was an absolute fortune.  At the ferryport before departing for
          Kadikoy I got ripped off again.  I had only 4 TL50,000 notes and
          I handed in 1 for 4 getons (ferry tokens) costing 6,000 in
          total.  I was only given the change of TL 10,000 although I was
          absolutely certain that I had given in a 50,000 note.  The
          vendor didn't make a mistake either as the 50,000 notes went in
          a drawer while the smaller denominations remained on the table.
          He had put my note in the drawer.  I protested more and more
          vehemently but he didn't want to know.  I threatened him with
          the police and still no response so I went and got a policeman.
          He went to the manager and they approached the vendor however he
          stuck to his guns and it boiled down to my word against his
          (although technically it was also Jerry's word as he's seen me
          give in the 50,000 note) and I lost out.  A lecturer in English
          in the Istanbul University having seen the commotion kindly
          interceded on my behalf but my protests led to nothing except
          the satisfaction that the incident had been highlighted and he
          wouldn't be so quick to con the next tourist.  Another valuable
          lesson had been learned.

          Paddy's friends were supposed to meet us at 2pm but they never
          showed up.  We spent the afternoon in the Bazaar.  Needless to
          say I did not get the promised leather jacket.  They wanted
          written proof of our agreement.  We had decided at this stage to
          just allow ourselves be dragged into the shops, drink their tea,
          thank them politely and leave without buying anything.  Ireland
          strikes back!!!  That night we tried a restaurant recommended in
          "The Rough Guide" but while the food was good and fairly priced
          the constant attention of the waiters proved very irritating
          particularly when they tried to take Paddy's plate when he
          paused for a second while eating.  We didn't leave a tip.
          We spent much of Friday morning walking around the university.
          It's quite spectacular.  The police presence is a major bone of
          contention with the students.  They go around breaking up any
          small gatherings.  Despite the introduction of democracy 8 years
          ago Turkey is still effectively a police state.  Most of the
          graffiti on the walls was painted over but some such as "Polis
          defol" which means Police go away remained.  We couldn't make
          out the rest but the word "Polis" was everywhere.  That
          afternoon we went on a 6 hour boat trip up the Bhosporus to the
          mouth of the Black Sea.  This was a great experience and a very
          relaxing day.  Turkey is a beautiful country with many splendid
          sights.  By chance on Friday evening we discovered a restaurant








          full of locals.  We gave it a try and it turned out to be an
          inspired choice.  We had a great meal and everyone was friendly
          and there was no attempt to rip us off.

          Saturday was match day.  This was a real bonus.  Our first game
          in Asia and a cracker to boot.  We were at the ground at 10am
          mindful of Wednesday's debacle.  There were thousands already
          inside the ground despite the 1pm kickoff time and live TV
          coverage.   The 2 reserve sides played a full 90 minutes
          beforehand which was a real bonus and the crowd were whipped
          into a frenzy by that game.  The match ended 2-2 with Besiktas
          grabbing a last gasp equaliser.  By 1pm the excitement was at
          fever pitch nd we appeared to be the only 4 calm people in the
          stadium.  We were with a section of visiting fans but there were
          pockets of fans everywhere which a recipe for disaster.  Within
          30 seconds a diasterous defensive mistake left Mehmet in to give
          Besiktas a 1-0 lead.  The fans around us went beserk.
          Fenerbahce came storming back and Aykut scored a brilliant
          equaliser on 30 minutes.  Both sides played some great football
          and the 1-1 score at the break was about right.  Some of the
          fans were intrigued to know who we were and after explaining
          that we were Irish they were extremely friendly.  They were
          flattered that we came to the game and that we knew so much
          about Turkish football.  I said I was very impressed with Gerson
          the Brazilian playing with Fenerbahce which apparently was the
          equivalent of telling a Celtic fan at an Old Firm game that Mo
          Johnson is a good player.  Still I got away with it.  Paddy was
          much more diplomatic agreeing that the referee was totally
          biased in favour of the home side.  5 minute into the second
          half Aykut gave Fener the lead with a great header.  The game
          moved from end to end with Besiktas hitting a post and then in
          the 43rd minute came one of the most controversial incidents in
          Turkish football.  Mehmet  got free down the wing, beat a couple
          of defenders before chipping the keeper from a very acute angle.
          The ball bounced agonizingly along the line before being cleared
          to safety.  The Besiktas players and fans claimed a goal but the
          referee waved away their protests.  At the time we all thought
          it had crossed the line.  The linesman flagged for a goal and
          suddenly all hell broke loose.  The Fener players surrounded the
          linesman.  The referee gave a goal, was promtly hit.  There were
          hundreds of people on the pitch.  The police moved in to restore
          order.  8 minutes later Fener kicked off and the referee
          diplomatically blew for full time seconds later.  The Besiktas
          fans left the ground singing but by the time we got out things
          had turned very ugly outside.  One Besiktas fan was badly beaten
          just in front of us and rival fans charged up and down outside
          the stadium.  We managed to get inside the police cordon
          protecting the officials entrance and stayed there watching the
          trouble unfold.  When things quietened down a little we got back
          safely to the ferry. The story didn't end there.  TV evidence
          suggested that the ball did not cross the line although it was
          difficult to tell for sure and the whole city was embroiled in a
          huge argument.  It's certainly still going on.








          The Ramada Hotel have a special deal where you can eat all you
          can for STG�10.  We decided to round off the holiday by giving
          it a try.  4 hungry Irish fans got their moneys worth.  We got a
          Taxi to the airport the following morning.  The driver turned
          out to be a Fenerbahce fan and he was very upset about the game.
          When I said we were at the game he asked what we thought.  I
          explained that we couldn't really tell for sure but at this
          stage his hands were off the wheel and he was looking back
          towards us despite the fact that we were doing 70 in the fast
          lane.  "It was deinitely no goal," we agreed.  "Fenerbahce won
          2-1."  "The referee was bought now pleae put your hands back on
          the wheel."  Our flight left on time but arrived a few minutes
          late due to head winds.  Tony had hoped to make West Ham v
          Liverpool but unfortunately we arrived too late.  I abandoned
          plans to go and attempted to get an earlier flight back to
          Dublin.  I made the 14.05 with 5 minuteses to spare.  Needless
          to say it was pouring rain when I got home but it never looked
          so good.

          My memories of Istanbul are mixed.  It's a beautiful city with
          some very friendly and helpful people.  If you opened a map in
          the street somebody invariably stopped to help you out.  However
          many more people were just out to rip you off and we along with
          virtually everyone we met fell victim at some stage.  I
          certainly won't be in a hurry back.  As for watching football
          well the standard of club football is very high and it's very
          skilful played before huge partisan crowds.  However my heart
          will stand up better to a season watching Limerick City.
          That's the end of my travelling for a while which will please my
          bank manager.  All that remains is to write a letter to
          Gothenborg explaining to the beautiful Susanne and Peggy why I
          won't be in Sweden next summer.  Gary Lineker you know not what
          you've done.


                                                          Gary Spain.

    re.last two entries
    
    Brillian Gary !!!
    

    Excellent Stuff Gary.
    
    �.
    

    
    re .208 & .209,
                   Excellent notes Gary worthy of inclusion in any paper
    or magazine.
    
           Cunno
    
         
    

    That's all very fine Gary but what's more important is Manchester
    United's RELENTLESS push on the title.
    
    
    Still, great stuff, and when is the draw for the World Cup???
    
    Paul

  
>>    Still, great stuff, and when is the draw for the World Cup???
    
      December 8th in New york. Broadcast live on RTE as well dunno the 
time though !!!

Shaughs.

    
    Gary,
    
    its sad to not having you and the rest of the Irish fans here in Sweden
    next summer. Before writing to that beautiful Susanne and Peggy,
    remember that you are welcome to visit anyway. Arrangement can be made
    for your staying. If not, just give me the address to those two girls,
    and i can do the explaining why you are not coming...;-)
    
    Mats

    Gary,
    
    
    Who is he on about?
    
    Paul

Thanks a lot for that, Gary - glad you made it back to write it!

grahame

    
	Thanks for all the good wishes.
    
    	Paul, see the last paragraph of my Turkey report.
   
    > for your staying. If not, just give me the address to those two girls,
    >and i can do the explaining why you are not coming...;-)
    
    Mats, what a pal.  I suppose you'dd even go and do it in person.  :-)
    
    I wouldn't mind visiting anyway however finance is the problem.  I'll
    be paying for Turkey for a while yet and the world Cup qualifiers start
    up again in September.  I'll just have to cheer Scotland and England's
    opponents on from my living room (or the pub :-)).  If I win the
    lottery between now and June I might make it to the 4 team tournament
    in the U.S. if not there's always the world cup.  Maybe we'll draw
    Sweden in the qualifiers.  Now there's a thought........
    
    Gary.

    To the person from from REO who sent me newspaper cuttings and also
    some pieces of the Sun with text extolling England's success in
    qualifying for Sweden, can I express my thanks.
    
    I know you meant well and weren't winding but the paper is unsuitable
    in neither being long, strong or soft enough.
    
    However I'll return it to the sender on request after the Championships
    in Sweden so he/she can try using it.
    
    best regards,
    
    Paul

    WHAT? First of all Cunno starts terrorising people with his equivalent
    of letter bombs, the dreaded 'Aldo mails'.
    
    Now somebody is actually cruel enough to SEND normal, God fearing people
    bits of the Sun!! There are some cruel b@stards out there!!
    
    >    in neither being long, strong or soft enough.
    
    Strong and soft O.K. BUT LONG????? The mind boggles!! **-|

    Who are you calling normal and God fearing??  We're Manchester United
    supporters when we don't follow Ireland. That is except Cunno and a few
    more.
    
    
    
    

Whats this I hear about Ireland still in with a chance to go to Sweden 
I heard it on 98FM news here in Ireland ??

Rgds,
Shaughs.

    
    Re -1,
    
    I can only presume it's for a friendly.  Even if the USSR and
    Yugoslavia withdrew Wales and Denmark have the best records of the
    runners up or Italy (assuming they beat Cyprus) and Denmark would go
    through as runners up to the Soviets and the Yugoslavs.
    
    We had similiar stories in the press here in 1982 that we'd be off to
    Spain because the Africans were withdrawing.  i hope this is just the
    usual rubbish with the media keen to write anything on the Irish team.
    
    Gary.

    
    FIFA have decided to take no action against Turkey after the 
    incidents following the Turkey v Ireland game in Istanbul.
    Apparently the FIFA observer saw nothing. 
    
    I find this amazing.
    
    Gary.

    	Of course they saw nothing Gary - They weren't English fans!!!