Conference trucks::football;1

    Only a friendly, but another good win for Wales last night (Andrew).
    Only few highlights of second half against Brazil shown. Dean Saunders
    tapped it in from a rebound, at beginning of second half. Brazilians 
    didn't seem to be showing much spirit. Southall seemed his usual 
    confident self. Wait till we get Rush back as well!
    
    DaveT

    Dave T,
    
    Thanks for the report - I used some ingenuity and rang my
    brother-in-law in Cardiff a couple of times for updated scores and
    match reports. The game was shown live on S4C (In Welsh) and the
    second half was on BBC2 Wales (In English) but I guess that exiled
    in Reading you couldn't pick up either of those.
    
    Just wait til we face those Germans.
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks
    

    Welsh team news.... my paper says that Ryan Giggs, the Man Utd boy
    wonder has been included in the squad against Germany and will be in
    the team. Not bad for a 17 year old with only 8 full 1st team games.
    Go gettem Giggo!
    
    Tony

    So Wales will play with 3 strikers ? Surely not.

    Re .3,
    
    Any chance of posting the squad? excitement in this distant Welsh
    outpost is building up and we have even imported some Brains SA in
    the hope of celebrating an historic victory - assuming I don't finish
    it all before the game!
    
    Re .4,
    
    Wales have played Rush, Saunders and Hughes on a few occasions already
    and even on one occasion Andy Jones played as well - as long as we
    leave a few players at the back and win I don't even care how many
    Manc players we play!!!
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks

    
    Here are the teams (according to M�nchner Abendzeitung)
    
    Wales:
    Southhall
    Young, Ratcliffe, Melville, Pembridge
    Horn, Hughes, Speed, Bowen
    Saunders, Rush
    
    Germany:
    Illgner
    Reuter, Binz, Buchwald, Kohler
    Brehme, Doll, Matth�us, M�ller
    V�ller, Riedle
    
    cheers
    G�nter

    
    The ref of the match is M. Quiniou (France).
    Frankenstadion in N�rnberg is sold out for months. The ground capacity
    is about 50,000. 4,000 - 5,000 Welsh are expected to come to Germany. 
    Terry Yorath boasted that the Luxemburg match will be more difficult
    than today's. 
    
    Lothar Matth�us is to play a more defensive part in order to help
    M�ller and Doll who have offensive tasks. Brehme and Reuter should
    come from behind and strengthen the wings. 
    It seems that both V�ller and Riedle have recovered from their injuries
    just in time to make the match. 
    
    Are M�ller and Doll known outside Germany? I think both could make the
    difference in the team and have very important tasks. 
    
    Just can't wait to leave the office at 3.00 and travel north. 
    Prediction: Germany - Wales  3:1 
    
    I expect a hard and tight match.
    
    Servus
    G�nter

	The Guardian has the probable Welsh team as:

	Southall, Bowen, Bodin, Young, Ratcliffe, Melville, Horne, Hughes,
Pembridge, Maguire, Rush, Saunders.

	The also think that Giggs will be the sub and it is likely that he 
will be the youngest every Welsh cap. 

	Neville Southall is quoted as saying it won't be a pretty game and he 
expects "bookings".

	My own opinion is Wales need a lot of luck tonight (actually they need 
some quality in mid-field) but given the quality of the front line and 
goalkeeper they could maybe just possibly snatch it. Hope so.
 

    Which is exactly what I said about the first game in Cardiff.
    Great keeper, great strikers and naff all in between. Hopefully
    the result will be the same as Cardiff but I don't think the Germans
    will allow that to happen this time.

    Rumania 2 Scotland 0....I hope I'm wrong but it doesn't look good with 
    			    all our injuries and especially with Roy Aitken
    			    on the park.....

    I suspect that .10 is in the wrong note as this is the Wales, Germany
    group!
    
    I suspect that Jim is right (for just once) in saying that our weakness
    is in midfield, we could certainly do with Blackmore and maybe even the
    experience of Van den Hauwe at full-back. We've tried so many players
    over recent years that it's difficult to keep track of them.
    
    As the song goes at the end of the "Life Of Brian" - "Always look on
    the bright side of Life ..." - at least we're not playing Scotland this
    time!.
    
    Hwyl Fawr,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks

    Hey, don't despair. We have a *real* chance tonight. We've beaten
    them once, why not again ?
    
    Pob Hwyl
    
    Dave
    

    
    What was the score tonight then ?
                                    

    
    4 - 1  for Germany
    

    Germany 4 Wales 1.
    
    	Wales didn't show any ambition in this game and thoroughly got what
    they deserved, thrashed. Even Southall looked out of sorts. M�ller got
    the first after Southall failed to hang onto a shot from just inside
    the area, McGuyver supplied a wonderful cross (what on earth was he
    thinking about?) for V�ller to nod the second, the third was a very
    good move ending with Riedler having acres to head in the third. 
    	Doll got the 4th in the second half after Saunders had been shown 
    the red card, for a relatively innocent challenge, but the welsh were
    putting it about so much at the time that the ref (who had a good game)
    had to send someone off!
    	The one thing the ref did miss was M�tthaus elbowing the
    ineffective Hughes in the face in the 1st half. But then Lothar made 
    sure he did it out of the refs sight. Rush was unbelievably bad, even
    though he received very little service his first touch was terrible.
    	If the Scots and welsh thing the English commentators are fools you
    should listen to the German ones. Up until 1-0, they were hopeing for a
    boring 1-0 win, after the 1st goal the German team were the best in the
    world and were far superior to the 'kick and rush' British teams.
    Comment after half-time from Karl-Heinz Rummerpratt, "It's so obvious
    that every German player is so much better than the welsh opposite
    number." Arrogant sod! Problem is apart from Illgner not being fit to
    lace Southalls boots, he was probably right!
    
    		Steve

    
    
    
    
    
    
Steve, you beat me to put in the note
    
Germany provided great football and entertainment yesterday in N�rnberg.
Good atmosphere in one of the best stadiums in Germany.

Wales started well and the Germans were a bit nervous the first ten minutes. 
During this time the Welsh defended well and did only allow one opportunity. 
But from then the pressure raised and became enormous. There were some good 
occasions to score but the balls went just a bit too wide or Southall saved. 

34th minute after a corner M�ller took the ball run to the edge of the box 
passed a Welsh defender and scored from the line of the penalty box. 39th 
minute a back pass from a Welsh and Rudi V�ller headed it home. Even more after 
a perfect cross Riedle scored the third goal just before half time.
From the 25th to 45th minute our team played perfect football and it was just a
matter of time when will the first goal come. 

During the second half we perfectly controlled the match though the team were 
not that determined as in the first half. But we still created several good
chances. Doll scored the fourth goal and the ref disallowed another from M�ller
that was - from where I was sitting - a perfect goal. 
Instead a 5:0 the Welsh took their first chance and converted a penalty. 

Perfect match from our team. Wales disappeared after ten minutes only reminding
us of their presence by some cynical fouls. Consecuently Saunders was redcarded 
(51st). BTW it seems that the linesman had some problems with the off-side rule.
The whole German team played well with outstanding M�ller, Matth�us, Brehme, 
Binz and Doll. Matth�us performed excellent long passes and crosses that led 
the crowd to standing ovations.

Now a result in Belgium and the last match against Luxemburg at Leverkusen. In
this form I can't see big problems - but then....

G�nter

PS Please, don't speak again to me about British sportsmanship and that the
Germans (and other continentals) always act on the field. Mr Hughes and 
Saunders put on a great show and seemed to find no hold on the ground.

    True enough last night G�nther, the welsh were very cynical. But on
    occasions so were the Germans. Kohler at the penalty, M�tthaus' elbow
    in Hughes' face (very clear to see on the telly), and who got penalised
    for diving at the edge of the welsh box in the 1st half? Although
    Saunders tried the same trick in the second. Fortunately the ref was
    awake to most of it. btw I thought Ridler had a great game, Klinsmann
    should stay on the bench.
    
    	Steve

    
    Wales	5	7:6	7:3
    Germany	4	8:4	6:2
    Belgium	5	7:5	5:5
    Luxembourg	4	2:9	0:8
    
    Wales	- Luxembourg	13.11.
    Belgium	- Germany	20.11.
    Germany	- Luxembourg	18.12.
    
    
    Heiko_
    

    
    Steve,
    
    I didn't mean any offence. I'm just fed up with some comments here
    in the conference that want to make us believe that only continentals
    try to cheat the ref. I do not very often see playing British teams.
    But after last night I'm entitled to say that it is not only a
    continental problem.
    
    Indeed, I also remember having seen this cynical foul Matth�us committed.
    However, this is hard to see in the stadium. I also didn't see the
    Saunder's foul. It was on the other side and we still were celebrating
    our team.
    
    I also agree that the ref was ok. I thought the linesman was not up to
    it.
    
    About Saunders I saw him diving several times. I remember the first
    Welsh attack (first Half) when Saunders penetrated in the area not trying 
    to score he just took off to get a penalty. I was sitting perfectly to 
    see this incident.
    
    However, we shouldn't over emphasize these incidents as there was also
    a lot of excellent football. Riedle being in this form Klinsmann has no
    chance to come back for the moment. I think we have a decent team at
    the moment and very good offensive minded players. There are still
    players like H��ler, Sammer, Thon, Bein etc. who were on the bench or
    not even nominated.
    
    Hey, Steve your Swedish in the England/Ireland group with a little help
    from Mrs. Nilsson, ey? :-)
    
    Cheers
    G�nter
    
    PS. Saturday we attent the lion match, interested?

    > I didn't mean any offence. 
    
    	None taken. And yes the Welsh deserved to have someone sent off,
    the number 7 would have been a better candidate.
    
    >    PS. Saturday we attent the lion match, interested?
    
    	I'd really like to G�nther, but this Saturday I'm going to bore 
    myself to death with the Rugby Union. 
    
    		
    		Steve

   
    
    >> I do not very often see playing British teams.
    >> But after last night I'm entitled to say that it is not only a
    >> continental problem.
    
   
    I don't mean any offence either, but I feel I ought to point this out.
    Nine times out of ten, an English player when fouled will get up, even
    when in genuine pain, and get on with the game as quickly as possible.
    The same does not apply to many "continental" teams - I refer to the
    likes of the Italians, Germans and perhaps further afield, the
    Argentinians, who, nine times out of ten will take every opportunity to
    waste time, break up the game, spoil it for the spectators and at
    worst, get their opponents in trouble.
    
    You are quite entitled to say what you think, please do not get me
    wrong. I just think that you may be making a bit of a mistake by making
    such a judgement on the basis of one game. It's the same old story, a
    good reputation takes years to build up, but can be destroyed almost
    immediately,  which in a lot of cases can be unjustified ...
    
    Adam.
    

    
    Generally I agree Adam. (By the way do you mean English or British?)
    However after last night, (and Hughes in general) and seeing Spurs 
    first game away in Austria I'm afraid it's not always the case.
    
    On another point, why didn't Yorath bring on Giggs earlier? I wanted to
    see what all the fuss was about. It was funny seeing him shake hands
    with Young at the substitution, a slight difference in height there!

    
    Whoops ! Yes, I guess I meant British. Look no further than the
    personal name .... 
    I agree it's not always the case, the figures I quoted were just
    plucked from thin air to illustrate the point - which I hope came
    across properly. It's fair to say that there's always exceptions to any
    general rule ... As for Hughes, well it's probably one of the only
    things he learnt at Barcelona !
    
    Adam.
    

    I agree about Giggs - he should have been on at 1/2 time - what did
    Wales have to loose by bringing him on.
    
    That must be the worst that ive ever seen Rush play - is he past his
    best or was he not 100%?. As for Saunders - I can only say thank God
    that LFC bought him and Everton didnt waste 2.8 million.
    
    Nigeo

    
    Adam,
    
    totally agree. You are completely right when you say that it is not
    good to generalize. I only don't accept the image we have according to
    some replies that all Germans are actors and are diving the entire
    match. I agree that e.g. Klinsmann is an expert in this and I don't
    like this - there are also others. But from what you can read here you 
    must think that Germans (and other continentals) never play football. 
    You are right that it takes a lot of time to decompose a bad image and
    that it is not ok to judge from one occasion - but we have a saying in
    German that is people who live in glass houses should not throw stones.
    Often there is more talk about cheating here than the good football the
    team plays and I think we all should also be fair and accept that
    another team plays well.
    
    regards 
    G�nter

    
    What are the chances of Wales still qualifying?
    
    I know they still have a chance of winning the group, if Germany mess
    up, but if everything goes to form eg. Wales beating Luxemburg and 
    Germany winning their two matches is there a best looser prize for the
    groups that only contain four teams.
    
    If so Wales must be in with a chance as 9 points out of a possible 12
    will take some beating.
    
    	Any Ideas??
    
    		Chris
    
                                                                  

    The best chance Wales have is Germany losing to Belgium. Something
    I don't see happening. 

    
    re -1
    
    Belgium had big problems at the beginning of the qualification but
    seemed to have progressed. I expect a tough match in Belgium but in
    this form we shouldn't have problems to win away. 
    
    Only the group winners go to Sweden, no exception. 
    
    It's good that we can qualify relying only on ourselves and
    not depending on others.
    
    G�nter

Even if they will be qualified,the Welsh team has no chance in Sweden.I think 
they just had the excellent form when they played both homegames combined with 
a whole lot of luck. If we hadn't conceeded that stupid goal against Wales,we 
Belgians would have been qualified. This because we will beat Germany.

And about qualifying as best second,forget it.Only groupwinners are qualified
no matter they play in a group with 4 or 5 teams.

For the Irish team,I'm wandering if they aren't already eliminated because even
they win the last game and England looses,England still will be qualified.
England will have won more games than Ireland.Am I wrong?

    The highlights I saw of this match last night showed the German Side
    
    looking very impressive & if they continue to play like that it would 
    
    be a travesty if they did not qualify.Their technique/flair/speed &
    
    power totally overwhelmed a Welsh side that only really offers passion
    
    & pride (which was sadly missing last night).
    
    
    Re .29 - If England lose to Poland & Ireland beat Turkey,Ireland will
    
    go to Sweden because of a superior goal difference (Unless Poland beat
    
    England by a large margin in which case Poland will qualify!!).
    
    Kevin

    The comment on a previous note about the "abilities" Hughes learnt in
    Barcelona is nonsense. For the same reason, Gary Lineker would have
    learnt the same, wouldn't he? Well, anyway, the difference between
    them is as day and night, and Lineker always did fair-play and
    gentlemanship in Barcelona.
    
    I think it all depends on the man...
    
    Regards
    
    JUANJO

    
    Hey, slow down Juanjo ! Of course, you're absolutely right in what you
    say, but that wasn't what I was implying - it was a tongue-in-cheek
    comment to the effect that he didn't really "produce" anything else
    whilst he was there !
    
    Chill, man ...
    
    Ads.
    

    Hi!
    
    I am absolutely calm and didn't take any offence, mine was a
    tongue-in-cheek comment too...  *-)
    
    Regards
    
    JUANJO
    
    

    
    Wales - Luxemburg  1:0
    
    Bodin scored from a penalty in the 83rd minute. Wales leading the table
    waiting for the German results.
    
    1. Wales      8:6  9:3
    2. Germany    8:4  6:2
    3. Belgium    7:5  5:5
    4. Luxemburg  2:10 0:10
    
    Remaining matches:
    
    Belgium - Germany    Nov. 20th
    Germany - Luxemburg  Dec. 18th
    
    G�nter

    
    What kind of a table is that ? Is there some kind of new system or am I
    just a traditionalist when it comes to these things - you know
    "played", "w", "points" etc ...
    
    
    
    Pardon me for being stupid !
    
    A.
    

re.-2
>    1. Wales      8:6  9:3
>    2. Germany    8:4  6:2
>    3. Belgium    7:5  5:5
>    4. Luxemburg  2:10 0:10

>    What kind of a table is that ? Is there some kind of new system or am I
>    just a traditionalist when it comes to these things - you know
>    "played", "w", "points" etc ...
  
Or perhaps a "British traditionalist"

Give the man a break - It's the way its done in Germany.

Basically it means   Goals For:Goals Against and Points For:Points Against

The points against removes the need to have a "played" column.

Personally I like the UK systems also but then its what I'm used to.

re .-1
Working in Annecy perhaps you are not from the UK after all apologies if
I have pigeon holed you wrongly!!

Perhaps ONLY Germany uses that system 

    
    Most countries have the use of this table system. In fact Germany is
    perhaps the one place where it is rarely useful. The country where it
    is most useful is ironically ...ENGLAND where due to cancelled games
    and missing games through cup involvement it provides a quicker way
    of hypothesising the realistic position of a team in a table.
    
    Dezzz

    
    Thanks for helping out. Yes, that's the way we show the tables. 
    Once understood there's no difference in information to the others.
    
    G�nter 

    
    	After getting used to it, I agree with Dezzz, it actually makes
    life easier, coz you can see how many points have been dropped. Won't
    work with the current system in England though, because sometimes there
    are 3 points shared out and sometimes only 2.

Back to the subject of group 5, everyone seems to think it is a forgone
conclusion that Germany will go through, however to me its not so
certain.

They still have to play Belgium away which is a match the Belgians could
win.  They have a strong squad and only went down 1-0 to Germany away.

Belgium can not qualify which will take the pressure off them, and you
can be quite sure they will be playing for a win and they have the skill
to achieve it.

There's certainly no love lost between the two teams.  I'm told that in a
recent Italian league match between Toriono  and AC Milan, Schifo was
sent off for kicking Lothar Matthaus in the face!!!  should set the match
up nicely!

My prediction 2-1 to Belgium, Wales to go through.

With Scotland with at least a 50-50 chance, there could be 3 British teams
in Sweaden yet.

    
    re: last
    
    Well, nobody said Germany is already qualified. And for sure it will be
    a tough match in Belgium. But we can qualify on our on without
    depending on anybody. Wales is sitting at home waiting for the result
    in Brussels (and perhaps in Leverkusen if we don't lose against Belgium). 
    
    Belgium may have a strong squad but our's isn't bad either. Have you
    seen the last match against Wales? In this form I can't see no problems
    against Belgium. But perhaps the performance will be totally different
    in Brussels. 
    
    G�nter
    
    PS. I don't know if Yorath really said all this rubbish the newspapers 
    published. But if he really did it he must be a very arrogant person. 

    I personally can't see the Germans having much trouble with the
    Belgians. What did Yorath say?

    I'm surprised Wales only beat Luxumbourg 1-0. It puts them in a difficult
    position, and they could have surely helped themselves if they had
    scored a few more goals. If Germany and Belgium draw (not unthinkable)
    and Germany beats Luxumbourg, they will have the same amout of points,
    but Gremany will probably have a better goal difference.
    
    Yeah, what DID Yorath say? Why do coaches insist on talking trash? Nothing 
    like giving the Germans a little more incentive to win their next 2
    matches.
    
    Tom

    
    Don't know if he really said it. I'm always very careful with
    newspapers especially pre-matches interviews etc. 
    
    However, the papers quoted him first hammering Germany in N�rnberg as
    Wales was a superior side and were going to show that.
    Latest was Wales will trash Luxemburg. 
    
    Well, it was a 1:0 trashing resulting from a penalty. I think such a 
    statement is not only not very sportsmanlike it is also very unlucky for
    the own team. I think a manager has to convince his team that it will
    have to fight against a weaker team aswell. If they are told to trash
    the opponent they think they have won the match already. Besides it's
    not very fair to the other team. (and all teams had difficulties against
    Luxemburg in this group) Sorry for expressing me so badly but I don't 
    know better. 
    
    G�nter

    Wow a penalty 7 minutes from time - echoes of Scotland games (:==:)
    
    So we have to rely on Belgium. Oh well guess i'll have to go out
    and buy some Waffles and Sprouts and whatever it is Belguim is famous
    for if they come through for us.
                                                            
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks

    
    These are the probable line-ups (according to the paper):
    
    Belgium:
    
    Preud'homme
    Albert, Demol, Borkelmans, Grun
    Emmers, Walem, Scifo, Bolfin
    Wilmots, Degryse
    
    
    Germany:
    
    Illgner
    Buchwald, Kohler, Binz, Brehme
    Reuter, Matth�us, M�ller, Doll
    V�ller, Riedle
    
    Referee: Tullio Lanese (Italy)
    Kick-off: 20.00
    Stadium in Anderlecht sold out (28,000)
    
    
    The Belgian manager claimed his team plays more intelligent football
    than the Germans who only run. They will have to prove this tomorrow.
    I expect an attacking German side looking for the away win. 
    The German team will be the same that beat Wales in N�rnberg. 
    Can't give you a report on Thursday as I'm out for a while.
    
    G�nter

    >The Belgian manager claimed his team plays more intelligent football
    >than the Germans who only run. 
    
    
    	Is the same manager in charge of the team that was waiting 
    'intelligently' for penalties in the World Cup quarter-final against 
    England? 
    
    		Steve

    Come on Belgium, kick the Germans out of the European Championships
    
    Just wishful thinking,
    
    Rob

    
    	Surely the Germans will get at least the point they need tonite?!
    
    	Imagine if Belgium win...England Scotland and Wales all qualifying!
    
    			8-) what a lovely thought...
    
    	Can't happen...can it??
    
    	Come on Belgium!! (strewth, never thought I'd be cheering them
    	on..)
    
    	Andy.

    Er yes,
    
    'Allez les Pommes Frites' / 'Doorgaan de Patates'
    
    (as the Belgians tend to spend most of their time eating chips with
    mayonnaise)
    
    jb.

Frankie Van De Elst the Belgian midfield pivot is injured and not playing
his replacement is an 18 year old called Johan (Jan?) Walem making his 
international debut!!

For the Germans, Klinnsmann starts on the bench (not sure why).

The Belgian manager is negotiating a new contract (which might not be renewed
of course) so he'll be under pressure for a good display.

Go for it Red Devils

    Re -2: They also love them with vinegar.

    anyone know the score tonight?

    And the score is.....
    
    Belgium    0     1   Germany (Voeller 15th minute)
    
    Anyone got the details ?
                            
    The big question now is : Will Luxembourg now beat Germany in Germany ?
    This is what Wales needs to qualify !!! I wonder if a Luxembourg team
    of players pumped up with steroids might be able to do the job :-)

    Kumar,
    
    Sigh I don't think so - the last time Luxembourg won a game in any
    competition was probably as long ago as when the Mancs won the league.
    
    If Voeller scored it was almost certainly offside - was the linesman
    Scottish???
    
    Guess we can always hope that Yugoslavia get banned and we qualify
    as the best runner-up or team with the most colourful kit or something.
    
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks

    Why do these Germans always have to qualify??? They're becoming
    a pain in the @#%.
    
    Rob

    >For the Germans, Klinnsmann starts on the bench (not sure why).
    
    	Because Riedler played, and once again played very well, setting up
    Voellers winner with a very clever header. Belgium played well for 20
    mins after half-time, but apart from that Germany dominated. Schifo had
    a great game and was responsible for most of Belgiums good moves.
    
    	Due to all the rain the pitch was a bog, so the game was not
    particularly exciting. Plenty of 'befreiungs schl�ge' which means if
    it's in your box just thump it anywhere. 
    
    
    		Steve

    
    I don't think the Germans are that good. Belgium were slack with
    their finishing but couldn't have tried harder. They were unlucky,
    thats all.
    
    JN.

    
      Just heard that German Football officials are concerned about the
    crowd trouble before and after last nights game.
      Its not suprising really,800 Germans were arrested in Brussells.
    
    Dave...
     

    I heard this also. Are we going to see Germany banned from the
    competition - if it were England they would have been. All those who
    think Germany should be excluded from the European Championships due to
    crowd misbehaviour say Aye
    
    Aye Aye, jb.

    Aye.
    

AYE AYE AYE

    >    competition - if it were England they would have been. 
    
    	Actually that's not true. The supporters of our national team have
    caused trouble on numerous occasions but England have never been
    banned. The club thing is a different story. 
    
    	The German FA chief equivalent, basically thanked the Belgium police
    for kicking 2 shades of Schei�e out of these prats! 
    
    	I wonder which Cities these thugs were from? G�nther....
    
    
    		Steve

I firmly believe that it is morally indefensible to ban any team, from any
competition, purely because of the errant behaviour of a small minority of their
travelling support. In this respect England have suffered greatly in recent
years, which has not only done damage to the respect felt for English football
across the globe, but has also had a significant impact on the  whole outlook of
football in this country; right down to grass-roots level.

That any country be allowed to suffer this degree of ignomy and hardship due to
circumstances beyond the control of their national footballing bodies is
blatantly disgraceful !!

However, I would propose a blanket ban on Germany from future competitions 
purely by virtue of the fact that they are a bunch of boring, ballet dancing,
bathplugs.

Yours Faithfully

Major Hector P. Rantes (diseased)

    
    re .61
    
    >> All those who think Germany should be excluded from the European
    >> Championchips due to crowd misbehaviour say Aye
    
    Aye, aye, and BYE BYE England, what a releief!!!!! What German fans do
    is like Chrismas eve compared too English hooligans behaviour. So i 
    look forward to have a quiet beer with Irishmen and Belgians next summer!!!
    
    Aye Aye Aye, Aye Aye 
    
    Mats

>>    Aye, aye, and BYE BYE England, what a releief!!!!! What German fans do
>>    is like Chrismas eve compared too English hooligans behaviour. So i 
>>    look forward to have a quiet beer with Irishmen and Belgians next summer!!!
    
    So, you've actually 'experienced' the English 'hooligans' in action -
    or are you basing this on the anti-English football supporters
    propaganda that you've seen/heard/read ?
    
    Paul

    He's basing it on the fact the English football hooligans behave
    almost as badly as Swedes on skiing holidays.
    
    
    	Anon.

    AYE

    
    I attended the WC-qualification game in Solna 1989, and i saw the
    behaviour before the game, during the game and especially after the
    game. It's a wonder that there wheren't any more arrests then it was.
    
    I support a Stockholm team called AIK, and their supporters have a very
    bad reputation here in Sweden. In my younger days i traveled around
    Sweden and saw every game that they played, and i experienced that
    there is a few peole who makes alot damage for the whole club. Maybe it
    was 10-20 people who where causing trouble. The fan club took the case
    in their own hand and excluded some of the hooligans, but the
    reputations still are bad.
    
    In Solna it wasn't just 10-20 people making truble, there where
    hundreds of them, crashing windows and seeking for fights. English
    supporers have such bad reputation that everything they do makes the
    headlines in the papers. But i don't think that the papers lye all the
    time.
    
    Mats
    
    BTW, Swedes have a bad rep in the alps because Englishmen don't know
    how to skee!!!!!! :-;

    
    
    >>BTW, Swedes have a bad rep in the alps because Englishmen don't know
    >>how to skee!!!!!! :-;
    
    		
    	More like the Swedes don't know how to drink :-)
    
    
       Hows it going anyway Mats ???

    I know how to do both. I may not ski as well as an Austrian, but a
    Swede? I'll wait for you at the bottom. 6 years in Munich may have
    helped just a little! ;-}

    		       <<< Note 28.71 by ECCGY1::LACEY >>>
    			  -< Remember the roadshow ? >-
    
    
    
    > >>BTW, Swedeshave a bad rep in the alps because Englishmen don't know
    > >>how to skee!!!!!! :-;
    
    
    >     More like the Swedes don't know how to drink :-)
    
    > Hows it going anyway Mats???
    
    Re. Skiing;
    
    Not that good. I haf a quick glance at my ski's the other night, im
    going for winter-holidays to the Swedish alps.
    
    Re. Drinking;
    
    Better and better!! I had my practice in Galway and in London, and im
    only waiting for my boss to send me to Munich on some VAX-course, and i
    will finally be a T5 (in beerology). To night im going to Yaki D� as
    usual on Thursday nights and have a pint or two. But one thing is for
    sure, one more session at Hogan's will kill me!! (Especially if Eamon
    comes along).
    
    Nice to hear from you. 
    
    Mats

    
    Steve, Youre on!!!!!

   >>  What German fans do
   >>  is like Chrismas eve compared too English hooligans behaviour. So i 
   >>  look forward to have a quiet beer with Irishmen and Belgians next summer!!!
    
    Aye Aye Aye, Aye Aye 
    
    Mats


Yum yum, this is more like it. Well then Mats, how can you explain why
so many German fans got booted out of Italy during the World Cup last 
year? The numbers went well over the hundred mark and if you take away
the mass deportation of England fans from Rimini, which was a bl**dy
disgrace by Moynihan and his Italian counterparts, the Germans in fact
were quite a bit naughtier than the English. And as for the Dutch.....
:^) :^)

Barry.

p.s. Unless, of course the Germans were the victims of a similar 
Rimini frame job. 

    
    Well, i have to admit that my only experiance of German fans was in
    another WC-qualifing match 1985. The game ended upp in a 2-2 draw, with
    Magnusson scoring with only seconds left of the game. Maybe there where
    a hundred German fans there, no arrests.
    
    I was living in Stockholm at that time, and on the subway home, me and
    my friends spoke with four germans who thought that it had been a
    wonderful game. They all hpoed that both teams would make it to Mexico.
    A month later they paid back by letting Potugal beat them on their home
    ground.
    
    Unfotunatelly i never wen't ti Italy last summer, so i don't know
    anything about German (or English) behaviour. But i have a sad feeling
    that the more policemen with dogs, guns and horses there are around
    fans, the more aggressive they get. In Sweden there will be a lot of
    policemen, but they will try to stay in the background relying to all
    the arrangement that will be held between the games. No one hopes more
    than i that next summers tournament will be a friendly one.
    
    Mats

    Any news about Germany being fined or disqualified????????
    
    Rob

    
    Any news about Wales replacing Yugoslavia or USSR in the Finals.
    
    It was mentioned in the News Of The World yesterday
    
    	Chris
    

    Re .78
    
    >> Any news about Wales replacing Yugoslavia or USSR in the finals.
    
    >> It was mentioned in the News Of The World yesterday.
    
    >>     Chris
    
    
    See 117.27 and 117.28.
    
    Mats
    
    Ps. Thats interresting, did the article mention any source for that
    information?. UEFA:s rules are very clear on this point. It have
    mentioned several times in Swedish papers.

    
    The paper said something about a change of rules. Im a bit vague
    actually as I read it early on Sunday Morning.
    
    Guess theres no harm in being optimistic
    
    	Chris
    

    As long as those countries belong to the United Nations as such they
    can compete.
    
    However, the USSR could be dissolved before next June (isn't it
    already in fact?).
    
    You can always argue that Wales, NI and Scotland do not belong to the
    United Nations...
    
    �JF? 

    
    Wales is not out yet. Why discussing now to get to Sweden on another way.
    There's still one match to be played tomorrow. Wait just one more day
    before complicating all these things. 
    
    German newspapers reported on monday that all regular strikers are
    injured, i.e. V�ller, Riedle, Klinsmann (and Doll). It seems that
    Klinsmann is definitely out. Riedle and Doll are injured but will
    perhaps be fit enough to play. V�ller will definitely play. This is
    perhaps the chance for Stefan Kuntz from Kaiserslautern to make his
    national debut. Kuntz has been elected German player of the season.
    
    To not underestimate Luxemburg will be the toughest task for the team
    tomorrow. If nothing extraordinary occurs we should qualify tomorrow.
    
    German record against Luxemburg is:
     Matches 10   Won 9  Lost 1 (in 1939) 
    
    G�nter
    

    
    Unfortunate name, that ... but just how appropriate is it, considering
    he's replacing Klinsmann, the greatest of them all !!
    
    AJ.

    
    Re -1 
    
    Help please, I don't understand this.
    
    G�nter

    
    Sorry G�nther - I wondered about that at the time !! Ok then, bearing
    in mind that it was very early, honestly (which is not much of an
    excuse for making childish jokes, I admit) try reading the
    aforementioned replacement striker's name with, shall we say, more of
    an english accent ....
    
    AJ.
    

    
    And I even had the audacity to spell your name wrong, too !

    
    Thanks AJ,
    
    now I've got it.
    
    G�nter

    
    	Kuntz deserves his chance, he's very quick and skillful. 
    Kaiserslautern often play like an English league team, very fast, good
    crosses and loads of goalmouth incident. Good supporters and good to
    watch.
    
    		Steve

    
    Yes Steve, I totally agree. Kaiserslautern play often very attractive
    football. I'll never forget the Barcelona match for example.
    
    But to point this out. I don't have any source for Kuntz making his
    debut. It is just my personal opinion that this would be a good chance
    to bring on Kuntz (and show that we have more than only one forward
    line). There are a few players injured but at this time we have so many
    good players that it won't disadvantage the team too much.
    
    G�nter

    
    
    Probable line-ups for tonight:
    
    Germany
    
    Illgner
    
    Buchwald, Kohler, Binz, Reuter
    M�ller, Matth�us, Doll, Brehme
    V�ller, Riedle
    
    
    Luxemburg
    
    Van Rijswijck
    Girres, Petry, Wolf, Bossi
    Groff, Hellers, Birsens, Weis
    Malget, Langers
    
    
    Riedle and Doll who were reported to be injured are both available for
    tonight's decisive match against Luxemburg in Leverkusen. 
    
                                                           
    German U'21 won yesterday against the corresponding Luxemburg team 3:0
    and qualified for the Olympic games in Barcelona.
    
    G�nter

    come on yooooo Luxembourg!
    Ian.
    

    
    Germany - Luxemburg  4:0
    (attendance 26000; sold out)
    
    Germany dominated the game and the victory was never in question though
    Luxemburg did a good job and had two good chances from shots outside
    the penalty box. The first goal was a penalty by Matth�us (15th m). Riedle
    stopped a cross from Doll with his breast in the area and outplayed his
    opponent who could only hold him and brought him down. I think it was a
    clear penalty. The second goal came after Luxemburg's second chance in
    a counter attack. Buchwald scored his first goal for the national team
    from the left edga of the penalty box. This was just before half-time.
    
    After half-time Doll was substituted by H��ler who brought more
    pressure on the right side. The third goal was another excellent one
    from Riedle. He headed a long cross home (from Buchwald near the corner) 
    and gave the keeper no chance. The fourth was also a nice one by
    H��ler (62nd). He took another long cross (Brehme) volley. This shot was
    blocked and H��ler was lucky enough to get the ball again. He outplayed
    a player and shot from about ten meters high in the left angle. There
    were some more chances but the Luxemburg keeper had a good game and
    made some very good saves.  
    
    During the first half Luxemburg made some good attacks but had only two
    chances from long shots. In the second half they had only one shot at
    goal and never prooved Illgner. 
    
    
    Table:
    
    1. Germany  13:4  10:2
    2. Wales     8:6   9:3
    3. Belgium   7:6   5:7
    4. Luxemburg 2:14  0:12
    
    Another good news for the German team (just my opinion). Vogts doesn't
    want to take Berthold (Bayern) to Sweden. 
    
    planned matches:
    March 25  Italy (Torino)
    April 24  CSFR  (Praha)
    May 30    Turkey (Gelsenkirchen)
    June 3rd  Ireland or Portugal (Bremen)
    
    Looking and hoping for an interesting and peacefull Championship in
    Sweden. Best wishes to all!
    
    G�nter