Conference trucks::football;1

    Brasil announce yesterday that it is no longer interested in hosting
    the 1998 World Cup. It ated its dire economic situation as the primary
    reason for the decision.
    
    The above information from a news brief in today' Boston Globe.
    
    JC

    Maradona is back on the news:
    
    - Received a 14 month prison term for drug related charges from
      a judge in Napoli. 
    
    - The San Diego Sockers of the MISL (Major indoor soccer league)
      want him to play for them. They also want him to take part in an
      anti-drug public campaign. Because of the salary cap in the league
      San Diego could only pay him $60,000. Sockers officials seem to think 
      he would be a plus in preparing Americans for the world-cup and would 
      also be a positive force in the war against drugs. I doubt it.....
    
    JC

    I heard that the San Diego proposal was rejected by some governing body
    (forget which one). Since FIFA doesn't recognize the MISL, it wouldn't
    be them, but perhaps th USSF? Maradonna would CERTTAINLY be a drawing
    card, since he's probably the best known player in the USA. Also, San
    Diego is very close to Mexico, so there would be a lot of local
    interest. But  if he's rotting in an Italian jail, how can he
    play? I also heard a while ago that a Japanese (non-FIFA league) team
    offered him something like 3 million pounds a year. 
    
    About the anti-drug stuff, I haven't heard anything about whether
    Maradonna has beaten the drug addiction, or whether he's still
    struggling, but the San Diego management sees what a draw he'd be and
    is looking the other way. If Maradonna is clean and sincere about his
    mistakes, then I could see him being a credible anti-drug spokesman.
    But the cynical side of me doubts this is 100% true.
    
    We won't even get into the fact of how the indoor game differs vastly
    from the outdoor game. Maybe he isn't fit, etc. or isn't accustomed to
    playing the ball off the walls. Worse, other teams might assign a
    butcher to mark him, which was pretty much waht happened when he was in
    his prime. Just cause he WAS one of the best ever, I wouldn't expect
    him to set the MISL on fire (IF it ever happened).
    
    Tom

    
    He is not in an Italian jail. he got the hell out of Italy
    before formal charges were filed. He continues to train with Boca
    Juniors, his former club, while an investigation by the Argentine
    police into his possible drug use after his arrival from Italy
    continues. As you may recall he was busted in Buenos Aires just after
    he arrived from Italy. 
    
    As for him being a draw, I agree. As for the Sockers recommending he 
    participate in some sort of anti-drug public service, well....I'm cynical,
    too. I think they're just looking for a good face they can put on in the 
    event of negative public reaction.
    
    BTW, have you noticed the extended coverage soccer has been getting
    lately in the Boston Globe? heck, this week they covered Maradona,
    Italian, German and English leagues and European qualifications.
    They even went as far as predicting the likely teams to qualify for
    Sweden. Last Week they covered the UEFA games but blew it, as they had
    the results under the header: European Championships.
    
    At least the coverage is expanding. Lets hope it continues.
    
    JC
    
    

    Yes, it is nice to see the Globe giving a little ink. This is
    especially good, considering they usually give more coverage to high
    school football. There's a guy named Frank Dell'Appia who regularly
    whites on soccer. If they hired a regualr soccer writer it seems like 
    they might be giving soccer some semi-regular coverage for a change!
    
    Tom 

    Saw an interview with Maradona yesterday. Some bits and pieces
    from that interview.........seemed to be backing off a bit from his 
    earlier statement announcing his retirement from professional football. 
    Roughly translated, he simply said that at the moment he doesn't see 
    himself playing professional football again.....Upset that in Napoli
    "It didn't matter if Maradona had problems" as long as he contibuted to
    the "bottom line" on the books.
    
    JC

    I can't imagine Maradonna doing anything BUT playing, but then agian, I
    don't know him personally :-) I can certainly believe that in the 
    cynical enviroment he was in at Napoli that the bottom line - winning
    (and for the club, making money) is more important than anyone's
    individual problems. Unfortunately, it probably isn't too much
    different than any other situation. Suppose he had gone to club
    offiicals and admitted that, even if he was playing reasonably well, 
    he had a problem and needed time (half a season) to get better? Would
    they have taken him out of the lineup? NO WAY! 
    
    I can understand how Maadonna lost control of his life, and how once he
    was out of control, it became a long road back. Hopefully he WILL come
    back, but maybe a little wiser and a little more humble.
    
    Tom

    Penarol(Uru) 1:3 River Plate (Arg)
    
    According to USA TODAY, 150 were arrested after 3 fans were shot and
    several stabbed in clashes between Argentinian and Uruguayian fans
    at centenario stadium in  Montevideo.
    
    		 ----------------end of Story-------------
    
    Why would anyone in his/her right mind want to take a gun to a football
    match? They've got to be sick.
    
    JC
    

    the following transcribed from today' Boston Globe, page 38.
    
    ...Brasil soccer appears on the brink of civil war since Flamengo
    has challenged the election of Ricardo Teixeira as president of
    Confederac�o Brasileira de Futebol. FIFA threatened to suspend Brasil
    from competition until the matter is resolved. This is complicated,
    though. Teixeira, who is blamed for the demise of the game in his
    country, is the son-in-law of FIFA president Jo�o Havelange.
    
    JC
    

    Sothu American Super Cup Final.
    
     Cruzeiro 3:0 River Plate
    
     The Brasilians had lost the first leg in Buenos Aires 0:2.
    
    JC

    re.last
    
    does this mean they will play Man Utd in the world club championship?
    if so, are Cruzeiro any good?
    i hope so, because we dont want Man Utd being known as the best club 
    in the world!
    Ian.
    

    incidentally, isnt the Cruzeiro the unit of currency in Brazil as well?
    Ian.
    

    
    Re -2, It's the european champions that play in the World Club
    championship so it's Red Star who'll be facing the South American
    champions who incidently are Colo Colo winners of the Libertadores Cup.
    
    This game should be on in a couple of weeks but I've heard nothing
    about it.
    
    Gary.

    Ref: .12
    You're right. The Cruzeiro is Brasil's official currency. (At least it
    was last week. By now it could be anything).
    
    The Cruzeiro that won the super Cup is worth much more, however.
    
    As for playing the mancs, see .13. Gary has it right.
    
    JC

    The following story transcribed from the Lawrence Eagle Tribune 
    newspaper.
    
    
    Pel� a DAD?
    
    World soccer star Pel� is reportedly the father of a 27 year-old woman
    who filed a paternity suit against him. Sandra Regina Machado contended
    she was conceived during a 1963 liaison between Pel� and her mother, a
    housemaid in the port city of Santos.
    
    At the time, the 51 year-old Pel� was at the height of his career with
    the local Santos soccer club. he retired from soccer in 1977. Pel�, who
    took a DNA test in November, said he would abide by the results, which
    were turned over to a judge on Tuesday. Brasilian newspapers reported
    that the results confirmed Pel� is Ms Machado's father. Manuel
    Benevides, one of the owners of the Genomic Molecular Engineering
    laboratory, which did the tests, declined to reveal the results. But he
    said Ms. Machado was pleased.

According to teletext a couple of days ago:

10 Man Red Star Belgrade beat Colo Colo 3-0 after having a player sent off in
the first half.

Don't know any other details

Al

    Result from the Mexican league, shown yesterday on Univision:
    
    Guadelajara 1:1 Atlas
    

    Who scored?

    I forgot. Perhaps someone else knows.
    
    JC

    For the Barcelona Olympic qualifications:
    
    Colombia 1:1 Ecuador
    
    JC

    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    - Diego Maradona is back in the news. This time he is reported to be
      moving to Forida (where cocaine is cheaper??).
    
    - CONCAF has designated the US and Costa Rica as its representatives
      to the 5 a side world cup to be held in Hong Kong in November.
    
    - US coach Lothar Osiender says scoring is the US' under 23 teams'
      priority from now until the olympics. The team plays Uruguay Friday
      and Brasil on January 22.
    
    JC

    From Mexico:
    
    Guadalajara 0:0 America
    
    Crap match from start to finish.
    
    From Argentina:
    
    Argentina 3:0 Mexico (U-23)
    
    All goals scored in the first hal. Second half was crap as the Argies
    were kicking the ball back to their goalie all the way from the opposing 
    end of the filed.
    
    From Bolivia:
    
    Bolivar 1:0 Oriente Petrolero
    
    Bolivar are the Bolivian champions.
    
    JC

    I just came back from Colombia and here is the final result for 1991:
    
    Teams in the final round and final standings were:
    
    1st	Nacional
    2	America
    3	Junior
    4	Santa Fe
    
    Nacional finally wins the national title.  Last time they won was over
    ten years ago.  They never won the national title with Rene Higuita
    (but they did win the Copa Libertadores).  Junior was the better team,
    they beat Nacional, America, and Santa Fe at home (outplay all 3
    teams). However, bad luck was with them playing away; I heard they were
    robbed of the game vs America (I do not remember if they lost or tied);
    They were beating Nacional 1-0 with about 5 minutes to go and lost 2-1
    (I was told they were the dominant team but a mistake by the goalie and
    later by a defender cost them the game). Then they were upset by Santa
    Fe, which happened to be the weakest team and Santa Fe's only win in
    the final round.
    
    Anyway, Nacional and America qualify for the Copa Libertadores.
    
    Another story was that about 4 teams are trying to get a contract with
    Rene Higuita and Nacional is trying to convice him to come back and
    play with his old team.  Higuita said that he does not want to play
    because of the constant bad criticism he has received in Colombia and in
    Spain.
    
    That's about all the major news I got about soccer in Colombia.
    
    Carlos

    Yesterday I was pleasantly surprised to see "Futbol Telemundo" on TV on
    Channel 27 from Worcester. The Telemundo network is another Spanish
    language TV network similar to Univision. Channel 27 must have leased
    the time to them, because the rest of 27's programming is in English. 
    
    Anyway, they showed an Argentine game, Newell's Old Boys vs San Lorenzo,
    live from Buenos Aires. Newell's were the better team, and they
    dominated the play and won 3-0. Apparently Newells are in 1st place in
    the Argentine league. 
    
    I'll give the station a call to encourage them to keep showing the games 
    and that they should make sure the newspapers carry the listings, so
    people will know if there is a game on.
    
    Tom

    I watched Telemundo, Channel 27 from Worcester last Sunday, they showed
    a game between Colombia and Uruguay (U20) the game end up tied. Both
    teams qualified for the next round (Brazil and Paraguay) are the other 
    teams which qualified from the quarter finals. 
    
    I was very pleased with the fact that now we finally have a channel
    showing fottball from Panamerica. I watched the Sports channel last 
    night they showed a match between Colombia and USA preparation for the
    94 events, they tied 1 - 1, Colombia won the match by penalties 8 to 7
    I was sick of Univision showing games from Italy!!, it is refreshing to 
    get news as how all the South-American teams are doing. My parents are
    going to Uruguay, I'll be able to get additonal news. 
    
    I agreed with the previous note, call or send a note encouraging 
    channel 27 to keep up with the broadcasting..
    
    Carlos
    

    Once again I watched channel 27 this weekend, and here are the results
    for the U20 championship: Uruguay is first with 4 points (3 games
    played), they tied with Brazil (0-0), tied with Colombia (0-0), and 
    Saturday defeated Ecuador 3-1, Brazil is second with 3 points (2 games 
    played), tied Uruguay, and defeated Ecuador 2-0, Colombia is third with 2 
    games played, 2 points they tied with Ecuador and Uruguay, Ecuador is 
    forth with 3 games played, 1 point. Next match is Brazil against Colombia. 
    
    One question: does anyone read the South American portion of this note?
    I'm the only entering information and there have been no entries for a
    while, hope people do read them..
    
    Carlos
    

    I saw the Ecuador - Uraguay match yesterday, and the Uraguay keeper was
    superb! He made several point-blank saves when it was 1-0. Ecuador
    could have tied it and gone ahead, but with the saves he made, it
    kept Uraguay in the game. Ecuador had a lot of chances and kept the
    pressure on especailly in the 2nd half. 
    
    Uraguay scored early in the 2nd half to make it 2-0. I think the guy's
    name is Nestor Fernandez, but I'm not sure. He got his hat-trick at the
    tail end of the game against the run of the play, as Ecuador was all the 
    way up, pressuring the Uraguay goal.  
    
    All in all, it was an entertaining match with lots of action and good
    plays. I can never tell if it is live or not, since they sometimes show
    taped matches. 
    
    Tom

    This past Sunday, Brazil beat Colombia 1-0. I did not see the game (did
    not know about it $%@$%@%) but my brother-in-law said it was no
    contest. Brazil was the better team.
    
    Carlos

    I'm not South American but I do fallow the national teams... Also so
    the Uruguay vs Ecuador game. The passing was exellent on both squads.
    What stamina, those U20 kids ha! 
    
    Algunos de ellos, creo que ya esta' listo para la Nacional,
    especialmente el numero once (y su hermano, creo?) de Uruguay.
    
    Nick Pilato (Italian_born_who_lived_in_Puert_Rico_eight_years)

    It is really a pleasure to watch this guys playing, to me it is a treat
    to see them play as hard as they do, without any doubt Nick, these kids
    are ready for the major league of soccer is South America or anywhere
    in the world, I wished I knew about the Brazil-Colombia game, I would 
    love to see them play. 
    
    I agree with Carlos the Colombian team was not as strong as they could
    be. One thing that I did not like is the amount of yellow cards, I have
    not watch a game with less that 3 yellow cards. I thought some ref's
    were overdoing it.
    
    Does any know the what's next, do they have a second game at home? or 
    the series is now decided, from what I can see, if there was only one
    round Brazil and Uruguay are classified for Australia, if not they have 
    a second round before that's decided. I did not watch the end of the 
    games Saturday to get the rest of the schedule...
    
    Carlos
    

    Does anyone have information on the status of the South-American
    teams?. 
    

    I don't think the World Cup qualifiers start until sometime next year.
    The 2 groups are:
    Group A			Group B
    Argentina			Brazil
    Colombia			Uruguay
    Paraguay			Ecuador
    Peru			Bolivia
    				Venezuela
    
    Chile is suspended. The group winners as well as the runner-up in Group 
    B qualify. Group A's runner-up must play the winner of a playoff between 
    the Oceana winner and the runner-up in the CONCACAF group.
    
    Tom

re last...

  Tom why are Chile suspended??? I never heard anything about it....

                                                              -dave-

    I heard that it had to do with some sort of fan voilence... Argentina
    were the most upset about the pairing, since, if they don't win their
    group they could end up having to play an extra home/away series with 
    Australia, Mexico, Costa Rica, etc. I suppose the Argies have a point,
    since they would be rated the #1 team in S.A. after the last World Cup. 
    
    I'll see if I can dig out any info on the Chile situation.
    
    Tom

    Tom,
    
    Weren't Chile the team whose goalkeeper faked injury pretending that he
    had been hit by something thrown from the crowd and had the game
    (against Brazil?) abandoned thus causing a riot. After reviewing the
    TV evidence FIFA said he was cheating and threw them out. I am sure
    Jose put a note about this incident in the old version of this file.
                                                             
    Or am I just depressed at the end of yet another failed WC canmpaign
    for Wales?
    
    regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks
    P.S have you checked on the extent of Baggio's injury yet??
                                       

    Hi Tom,
    
    Thanks for the information, I guess Group A is easier with Chile out.
    I understand the problem for South American teams to come up with the
    cash and players (most teams are made up with Stars playing outside
    their country), to get them ready like the rest of the world. A shame
    if they had the money to set up the teams now they would be able to be
    more competitive. By th etime we start with the rounds there, the rest
    of the world is all set to start the tournament.
    
    Thanks again,
    
    Carlos
       

    Andy is correct, that IS what happened. I remember hearing about the
    riot, but something didn't make sense, since unfortunately, if they
    disqualified every country involved in a riot there wouldn't be too
    many teams left :-(  
    BTW, Andy, I hope you didn't get hit by the hurricaine. I heard the damage 
    in Atlanta wasn't as bad as some other areas, but still got hit pretty
    hard.
    
    With only 10 countries in S.A. the qualification process is a lot
    simpler than Europe, where it seems there may be 50 countries pretty
    soon. Some teams like Brazil and Argentina are moving toward home-based
    teams, but I could see some of the other countries unable to do this.
    Dont they have a rather complicated system in Brazil with a regular
    league, then state and regional championships? maybe if they got rid of
    one of these levels, they could beef up the league, and keep some of
    the top players at home. Then again, with rich European teams throwing
    around money like they do, it's hard to resist.
    
    Tom

    Tom,
    
    Not that this is relevant to South America but since you asked.
    
    The tornadoes that moved across the U.S from texas to Georgia hit
    North-West Atlanta yesterday afternoon - I live in the North-east
    so it missed me by about 30 miles!
    
    Quite a few people over there lost roofs and even whole houses though.
    
    P.S the Rangers note claims that Baggio was crap or something last week
        you should get in there quickly and refute this.
    
    regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks
                                                      

    Hi Tom,
    
    Brazil like the rest of South America has the same (or worse) economic
    problems. South American countries cannot compete with the European 
    market, you may be able to see a South American game is a Spanish
    channel (if Lucky), but you'll see an Italian game almost in any
    sport channel, that's revenue going to that European team.
    
    Every South American country is pushing to use internal players, but
    the external pressure is always to get the big stars involved. These
    stars are found outside the country.
    
    As far as Chile you are right, that's the reason for them to be out.
    We'll see what happens next year!
    
    ps. Andy, I'm glad you were not affected by the tonadoes.
    
    
    Carlos
    
           
     

    Carlos,
    
    I don't know where you are located (Mass.)? but Channel 27 from
    Worcester shows a game every Sunday at 4:00. It's the Telemundo network
    in Spanish. For the last couple of weeks they have been showing European
    qualifying internationals, but I think next week it will be Brazil- 
    Uraguay. They had been showing Copa Libertadores matches, and I would
    imagine they would start again once that gets underway.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Tom

    Tom,
    
    I have watched a few matches and some of them are real old games. I
    tend to watch the Mexican league (shown on Galavision) and few games
    are very exciting. What I find more interesting is the announcers. I
    will tape one of these game and let you borrow it and you will see what
    I am talking about.
    
    BTW, from the USA TODAY, I noticed that the South American Cup (Copa
    America) is all set.  It's played in Ecuador from June 15 thru July
    4th.  Here are the groups:
    
    Group A:
    
    	Uruguay
    	Ecuador
    	USA
    	Venezuela
    
    Group B:
    
    	Brazil
    	Chile
    	Paraguay
    	Peru
    
    Group C:
    
    	Argentina
    	Colombia
    	Bolivia
    	Mexico
    
    
    I have no idea how the tournament is set up.  If I find out (before
    anyone else does), I will post a reply.
    
    So, if you want to come up to NH to watch some of these games live, let
    me know and you are welcome to come. 
    
    Carlos 

    Hi Tom,
    
    We have two Carlos on the dial. I'm from Worcester, Mass, usually I
    tune channel 27. I went away this past weekend, but I'll make sure to 
    watch this coming Sunday. I was told Uruguay defeated Brazil 2-0. As far 
    as the Libertadores, the Uruguayan teams did not played (they were on 
    strike).
    
    Please keep he information coming, I'm looking forward to Sunday's
    game. 
    
    Cheers!!
    
    Carlos
    
    

    I know the Telemundo games are old, and it sometimes takes the fun out
    of it if you know who won. They showed Scotland-Portugal last week and
    I remember some of the Scottish noters saying that it wasn't that good
    of a game, so I didn't tune in until later. Paolo Futre looked good for
    Portugal...
    
    Since when did the USA and Mexico get involved int he Copa America?
    From the USA's perspective, this is just the sort of international
    tournament they need to prepare for the WC. Uraguay are certainly a
    tough team, and I wouldn't expect the USA to get a good result, but I
    would say that beating Venezuela is definitely realistic, and Ecuador
    is a possibility.
    
    Tom

    Hi Tom,
    
    I agreed with you, playing against South American teams will help 
    USA. You can add to your list Peru and Paraguay. I always question
    the reason of not having any Central and North American teams on the
    Libertadores and Copa America.
    
    I have note heard about Mexico and USA entering the Copa America, I
    do believe they should be there.
    
    
    Carlos 

    Hi Tom,
    
    Ecuador has a pretty good team and I really doubt that USA can beat
    them.  Ecuador has teams that have been making the semi's and finals in
    the Copa Libertadores in the past 3-4 years.  I honestly don't know how
    Barcelona (Ecuador not Spain) lost to Sao Paolo in the semi's this
    year.  They outplay them in Ecuador but must have played poorly in
    Brazil.
    
    I know that last year the decision was made for the USA to play in the
    Copa America but I had no idea about Mexico.
    
    Argentina right now looks to be the best team in South America and will
    be the team to beat.
    
    Carlos
    
    P.S. Hey Tom, good luck at you new job.

    Yes, Ecuador aren't bad at all. Didn't they beat Brazil in the S.A.
    Championships last time around? I was thinking that the US could only
    beat them if they played a really strong game and Ecuador were not at 
    their best. I think they could beat Venezuela, since, beleve it or not
    Venez. produces more first-rate baseball players than footballers. I
    figure the US could go 1-1-1. I dunno if that's enough to make the 2nd
    round...
    
    Tom

re .44

	From what I can remember, this competition involved only teams from 
South America.  I don't why but I used to think that national squads from 
North America (Canada, Mexico, and US) were never at a level where they 
could compete with top South American teams such as Brazil, Argentina, 
Uruguay, Equador, Peru, Chile, and Paraguay.  To me that's too many teams 
they could never beat then.  (Mexico has a good professional club league but 
the national team never really achieved true world cup finals standard).

	Now, however, it's a different story.  The gap between North and 
South America is closing rather quickly (for whatever reasons).  I know the 
US does not have a very good team.  However, they are good enough to make 
the best out of a good day.  Mexico's performance against Germany recently 
was quite impressive.  Canada had great momentum in the early 80's, but they 
have been quiet since.

	So, if the level of South American soccer remains as low as they are 
now, and the level for the CONCACAF go up some more, I think it's time to 
talk about a true american cup.  That would also help in a lot of other 
areas.

Jude

    
    Tom, 
    
    Best wishes to you on your new job, please keep in touch. For a while
    you were the only voice to American (South American) soccer, I'm glad
    to see more people participating. Since you are close to the SHR plant
    one of this days we can plan to see a game together. Take care and keep
    in touch...
    
    Jude, I believe the rest of America with the exeption of USA, and not
    knowing that much about Central America soccer, the rest of the
    countries are not up to par with South America. Mexico does not have a 
    team capable of competing with a South American team (no insult
    intended). 
    
    As far as Barcelona defeat, the Spaniard soccer was never a threat to
    us (Brazil, Uruguay, Argentina and Chile). I remember the number of
    times Penarol and Nacional (Uruguay), defeated Real Madrid, Barcelona, 
    and Atletico Madrid for the World cup.
    
    Best of luck Tom!!!
    Carlos  
     
    
    low level  

    
    Some central american news but I couldn't find a closer note for it
    (mods please move if I missed it)
    
    Results from group A of the CONCACAF World Cup qualifying
    
    Costa Rica	5 	St Vincent 0 	(will Scotland tour St Vincent now?)
    Honduras	1	Mexico	1	(bit of a surprise thaT?)
    
    Don't have a group table or any more news.
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks

    Here are the groups for this year Copa America in Ecuador:
    
    Group A:	Ecuador, Uruguay, U.S., Venezuela
    Group B:	Brazil, Paraguay, Chile, Peru
    Group C:	Argentina, Colombia, Mexico, Bolivia
    
    Top two in each group and 2 best 3rd place advance to the quater-finals.
    
    Here is the schedule that I have so far:
    
    June 15	Ecuador vs Venezuela		Quito
    June 16	Uruguay vs U.S.			Quito
    		Colombia vs Mexico		Quito
    June 17	Argentina vs Bolivia		Ambato
    June 18	Paraguay vs Chile		Machala
    		Brazil vs Peru			Cuenca
    June 19	Uruguay vs Venezuela		Quito
    		Ecuador vs U.S.			Quito
    June 20	Colombia vs Bolivia		Ambato
    		Argentina vs Mexico		Ambato
    June 21	Paraguay vs Peru		Machala
    		Brazil vs Chile			Cuenca
    June 22	U.S. vs Venezuela		Quito
    		Ecuador vs Uruguay		Quito
    June 23	Mexico vs Bolivia		Ambato
    		Argentina vs Colombia		Ambato
    June 24	Chile vs Peru			Cuenca
    		Brazil vs Paraguay		Cuenca
    
    Quaterfinals:
    
    June 26	#1 Winner A vs 3rd (1)		Quito
    		#2 Winner C vs 2nd A		Guayaquil
    June 27	#3 Winner B vs 3rd (2)		Quito
    		#4 2nd B vs 2nd C		Guayaquil
    
    Semi-finals
    
    June 30	Winner #1 vs Winner #3		Guayaquil
    July 1	Winner #2 vs Winner #4		Guayaquil
    
    3rd place
    
    July 3	Semi-final losers		Portoviejo
    
    Final
    
    July 4	Final				Guayaquil
    
    
    
    
    Carlos

    Carlos,
    
    Any idea if the U.S are sending their first team or their olympic one?
    They're playing Germany on june 13th and have two other games in the
    preceeding week so 3 or more games starting on the 16th sounds a bit
    of a heavy schedule.
    
    Also could you let us know how qualifying for the World Cup is going 
    in South America - I saw some feature about it on Univision recently
    but they didn't show any group tables and my Spanish Football
    Translation isn't good enough to work out how far along it is?
    
    I think South America get 3 places right?
    
    regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks
                        

    The stories I have heard is that Copa America will be the big test for
    the USA, so I am going to assume that they will be sending the World
    Cup team to this event.
    
    Brazil will also have a little conflict since they will be sending
    their best team here for the U.S.A Cup (that is what the newspapers
    says), which will be great since I am planning to see them play Germany
    here in Foxboro.
    
    Carlos
    

    Re: .52
    
    >I think South America get 3 places right?
    
    Yes, 3 teams qualify automatically and another will have to play
    another game for a spot.
    
    Games to qualify for the World Cup will start in August.
    
    Group B					Group A
    -------					-------
    Brazil					Argentina
    Uruguay					Colombia
    Ecuador					Paraguay
    Bolivia					Peru
    Venezuela
    
    (Chile are banned from this World Cup)
    
    Winners of both groups and runner up of Group A will automatically
    qualify for the World Cup finals.  Runner up for Group B will have to
    play against the CONCACAF/Oceania play-off winner. The winner will make
    it in.
    
    Here is the schedule:
    
    Group A
    -------
    
    August 1		Paraguay	@Colombia
    			Argentina	@Peru
    August 8		Argentina	@Paraguay
    			Colombia	@Peru
    August 15		Argentina	@Colombia
    			Peru		@Paraguay
    August 22		Peru		@Argentina
    			Colombia	@Paraguay
    August 29		Paraguay	@Argentina
    			Peru		@Colombia
    September 5		Colombia	@Argentina
    			Paraguay	@Peru
    
    Group B
    -------
    
    July 8		Brazil		@Ecuador
    			Bolivia		@Venezuela
    July 25		Brazil		@Bolivia
    			Uruguay		@Venezuela
    August 1		Ecuador		@Uruguay
    			Brazil		@Venezuela
    August 8		Uruguay		@Bolivia
    			Venezuela	@Ecuador
    August 15		Ecuador		@Bolivia
    			Brazil		@Uruguay
    August 22		Venezuela	@Bolivia
    			Ecuador		@Brazil
    August 29		Bolivia		@Brazil
    			Venezuela	@Uruguay
    September 5		Venezuela	@Brazil
    			Ecuador		@Uruguay
    September 12	Bolivia		@Uruguay
    			Ecuador		@Venezuela
    Sepetember 19	Uruguay		@Brazil
    			Bolivia		@Ecuador
    
    
    
    Carlos

Re -1 :

>>Winner Group B plays Oceania/CONCACAF winner.....

Firstly is CONCACAF the group with Mexico, Canada, Honduras, etc ?

Secondly...If the South American Team wins their playoff game, there will be no
team in the WC finals from Oceania/CONCACAF. Right or Wrong? It seems very unfair
as the South American team would have to be a very strong favourite to win this
playoff.

 - Kev

    Re -1:
    
    OOOooooopppsss, need to clarify a little:
                                             
    There will be a CONCACAF representative in the World Cup. 
    
    You are correct, the CONCACAF group is between Mexico, Canada, Honduras
    and El Salvador.
    
    The winner of that group qualifies into the World Cup.
    
    The runner up will play the winner of the Oceania group.  The winner of
    this game will play the South American Group B runner up.
    
    Sorry for the confusion.
    
    Carlos

    I am wrong about who qualifies for South America
    
    
    The groups and schedule that I mention in .54 are correct.  The winners
    for each group will qualify for the World Cup.  However, the runner up
    of Group B will automatically qualify but the runner up of Group A will
    not.  The runner up of Group A will have to play the play-off game.
    
    Carlos

    Carlos,
       
    Assuming that Brazil and Argentina are the favourites to win the groups
    but who would you fancy to finish runners-up.
    
    From the little i've seen on UNIVISION Colombia must have a chance 
    despite the disruption of their league in recent seasons but after that
    I don't know. Any ideas.
    
    I'd have to predict Mexico to win the CONACAF group as they appear a
    class above the rest of the opposition. Oceania is Australia/NZ etc ...
    so one would have to fancy Mexico to beat off all the challengers
    for the 4th spot.
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks

    Andrew,
    
    You are correct, Brazil and Argentina are the favorites to win the Copa
    America and also to win their respective groups for the WC qualifications. 
    
    Runners-up: for Group B, I believe the battle will be between Ecuador
    and Uruguay.  Uruguay has a good team but everytime I see them play,
    they only seem to play for a tie and when they take a lead they try to
    waste a lot of time.  Ecuador in the other hand is playing very well. 
    I believe about two months ago, Ecuador beat Brazil in a friendly. Of
    course, Brazil did not have some of theirs stars that are currently
    playing in Europe but Ecuador outplayed Brazil.  I will be cheering for
    Ecuador, however Uruguay will somehow find a way to qualify (they
    usually demolish Bolivia and Venezuela in Uruguay).
    
    In group A, I believe the battle will be between Colombia and Paraguay. 
    The key for both teams will be how well they do against Argentina. 
    Colombia usually plays very well against Argentina and that might make
    the difference. Paraguay is very strong at home and when they play away,
    they start very well but they always seem to loose their composure and
    loose the game. 
    
    From some of the magazines and newspapers that I have read, Argentina
    is the favorite to win the World Cup and of course the Copa America.
    
    
    For CONCACAF, definetely Mexico is the favorite. However, they get
    overconfident and that is how they might loose against thier current
    opponents.  Runners-up will probably be Honduras.  Colombia and/or
    Paraguay will defintely be the favorite against Honduras/Ocenia winner
    but it might not be that easy.  Last time Colombia had a hard time
    against Israel.
    
    Carlos
    
    
    
    

    Carlos,
    
    Do you know the time when the games for the Copa America and the
    elimination series for the world cup is??, I'm hoping that I'll be able
    to tune in. Thanks
    
    Carlos Acosta (SHR, MA.)
     

    I have no times for any of the games.  As soon as I find out, I will
    post it here.
    
    For the Copa America, I am going to assume that they will probably use
    the same time as they did two years ago.  6:00pm and 8:00pm during the
    weekdays and 1:00pm and 3:00pm during weekends. I am hoping to catch
    all of the games
    
    World Cup games times are very difficult to get because they usually
    keep changing the time until the week before the game.  
    
    Carlos

    thanks, 
    
    Carlos
    

Better late then never.................

Here is this years Copa Libertadores (equivalent to the European Cup) draw:

5 group with 4 teams in each group.

Each team play the other team in the group twice (home and away). I believe
this will be completed this week.

The top 3 teams make it into the second round which will start next week.


Group A (teams from Venezuela and Peru)
-------
Minerven		(Venezuela)
Caracas			(Venezuela)
Sporting Cristal	(Peru)
Universitario		(Peru)

The only scores that I know of are:

Sporting Cristal - Universitario	1-3
Universitario - Caracas			4-1
Sporting Cristal - Minerven		6-2
Universitario - Minerven		2-0

I believe Universitario has won this group.

Group B (teams from Bolivia and Chile)
-------
Cobreloa		(Chile)
Univ. Catolica		(Chile)
Bolivar			(Bolivia)
San Jose		(Bolivia)

Score that I know are:

Bolivar - Univ. Catolica		3-1
San Jose - Univ. Catolica		2-5
Bolivar - Cobreloa			3-0
Bolivar - San Jose			3-1

I heard that Bolivar is playing very well and that they have the ability to
win the Cup.

Group C (Teams from Uruguay and Ecuador)
-------
Nacional		(Ecuador)
Barcelona		(Ecuador)
Nacional		(Uruguay)
Bella Vista		(Uruguay)

Score that I know are:

Barcelona - Bella Vista			2-0
Nacional (E) - Nacional (U)		2-0
Nacional (E) - Bella Vista		5-0
Barcelona - Nacional (U)		1-1

I am not sure but I think both teams from Uruguay ended in a tie on their
first game.

Both teams from Ecuador have been impressive and they are one of the favorites
to win the cup.

Group D (Teams from Brazil and Colombia)
-------
Inter			(Brazil)
Flamengo		(Brazil)
Nacional		(Colombia)
America			(Colombia)

Some scores:

America - Flamengo			2-1
Nacional - Flamengo			0-1
Flamengo - America			1-3
Inter - America				1-1
America - Nacional			0-3

America and Nacional are playing very well and they are also favorites to win
the cup.  Flamengo has been very dissapointing.  The only game that they
played very well was the win against Nacional.

Group E (Teams from Argentina and Paraguay)
-------
Cerro Porteno		(Paraguay)
Olimpia			(Paraguay)
Newell's OB		(Argentina)
River Plate		(Argentina)

The only score I know is:

Cerro Porteno - River Plate		2-1

I have not heard/read anything about this group.

In the next reply I will post the schedule for the later rounds.

Carlos

Here is the schedule for the second round and beyond for the Copa
Libertadores:

			SECOND ROUND
			------------
First leg		Wednesday, April 7th

Series A	3rd-Group C vs Winner-Group A
Series B	3rd-Group D vs Winner-Group B
Series C	3rd-Group E VS Winner-Group C
Series D	3rd-Group A VS Winner-Group D
Series E	3rd-Group B VS Winner-Group E
Series F	2nd-Group C vs 2nd-Group A
Series G	2nd-Group B vs 2nd-Group D
Series H	Sao Paulo (Brazil) vs 2nd-Group E

Second leg		Wednesday, April 14

Series A        Winner-Group A vs 3rd-Group C
Series B        Winner-Group B vs 3rd-Group D
Series C        Winner-Group C VS 3rd-Group E
Series D        Winner-Group D VS 3rd-Group A
Series E        Winner-Group E VS 3rd-Group B
Series F        2nd-Group A vs 2nd-Group C
Series G        2nd-Group D vs 2nd-Group B
Series H        2nd-Group E vs Sao Paulo (Brazil)


			QUATER-FINALS
			-------------
First leg		Wednesday, April 21st

Series I	Series B vs Series A
Series II	Series D vs Series C
Series III	Series F vs Series E
Series IV	Series H vs Series G

Second leg		Wednesday, April 28th

Series I        Series A vs Series B
Series II       Series C vs Series D
Series III      Series E vs Series F
Series IV       Series G vs Series H


			SEMI-FINALS
			-----------
First leg		Wednesday, May 5th

	Series II winner vs Series I winner
	Series IV winner vs Series III winner

Second leg		Wednesday, May 12

        Series I winner vs Series II winner
        Series III winner vs Series IV winner

			FINALS
			------
First leg		Wednesday, May 19

Second leg		Wednesday, May 26

    Carlos,
    
    Do you have any updates to Copa Libertadores??, thanks
    
    Carlos

Here are the results of the first round:

Group A (teams from Venezuela and Peru)
-------
1- Universitario	(Peru)-
2- Sporting Cristal	(Peru)-
3- Minerven		(Venezuela)-
4- Caracas		(Venezuela)

Group B (teams from Bolivia and Chile)
-------
1- Univ. Catolica	(Chile)-
2- Bolivar		(Bolivia)-
3- Cobreloa		(Chile)-
4- San Jose		(Bolivia)

Group C (Teams from Uruguay and Ecuador)
-------
1- Nacional		(Uruguay)-
2- Nacional		(Ecuador)-
3- Barcelona		(Ecuador)-
4- Bella Vista		(Uruguay)

Group D (Teams from Brazil and Colombia)
-------
1- Flamengo		(Brazil)-
2- America		(Colombia)-
3- Nacional		(Colombia)-
4- Inter		(Brazil)

Group E (Teams from Argentina and Paraguay)
-------
1- Cerro Porteno	(Paraguay)-
2- Newell's OB		(Argentina)-
3- Olimpia		(Paraguay)-
4- River Plate		(Argentina)


Here are the pairings for the second round (and beyond...)

Barcelona vs Universitario-------|
                                 |------|
Nacional (C) vs Univ. Catolica---|      |
                                        |------|
Olimpia vs Nacional (U)----------|      |      |
                                 |------|      |
Minerven vs Flamengo-------------|             |
                                               |-----
Cobreloa vs Cerro Porteno--------|             |
                                 |------|      |
Nacional (E) vs Sportin Cristal--|      |      |
                                        |------|
Bolivar vs America---------------|      |
                                 |------|
Sao Paulo vs Newell's OB---------|
 
    

    Results for the 1st leg:
    
    
    Barcelona vs Universitario			1-2

    Nacional (C) vs Univ. Catolica		0-2

    Olimpia vs Nacional (U)			2-1

    Minerven vs Flamengo			2-8

    Cobreloa vs Cerro Porteno			1-1

    Nacional (E) vs Sportin Cristal		3-0

    Bolivar vs America				1-2

    Sao Paulo vs Newell's OB			0-2
 

    Results of last weekend Matchups:
    
    Canada 	2	vs El Salvador 0
    Alex Bunbury (26:00)
    John Catlif (33:00)
    
    Mexico	3	vs Honduras 0
    Luis Flores (8:00)
    Hugo Sanchez (77:00)
    L. Ambriz (90:00)
    
    
    Here the current standings:
    
    			W	T	L	Pts
    Canada		1	1	0	3
    Mexico		1	0	1	2
    El Salvador		1	0	1	2
    Honduras		0	1	1	1
    
    
    Canada should have had 4 pts, they should have won 1-0 vs Honduras,
    however a Canadian was called for hand ball in the penalty area with
    few minutes to go. Replay showed that there was no hand ball.  
    
    This weekend the rematch of Mexico vs El Salvador.
    
    Carlos

    
    Re -1,
    
    Canada have since won at home to Honduras (3-0 I think) and Mexico have
    hammered El Salvador.  Canada travel to the Azteca this weekend in what
    should be the crunch game.  2 point out of 4 v Mexico should have the
    group to Canada.
    
    Gary.

    
    Q. What group do Guyana play in?  Any chance of any results and or a
    table?  I think last time they were grouped with Trinidad and Tobago,
    Barbados, St. Lucia etc. and got well stuffed by everyone.  
    
    Still a least we can play cricket,
    
    

    re: .69
    
    You are right Gary, the scores that I enterd were from the previous
    weekend.  I wrote them last week but did not get a chance to enter it
    until this week, however I forgot to slightly modify the note :-).
    
    Carlos

    re .71
    
    Do either one of you (Carlos/Gary) have the most recent scores??, . 
    Carlos
    

    You are not going to believe this Carlos, but ESPN is showing "Latin
    Futbol" every Wednesdays (a friend has seen it the past two weeks)
    during the day.  I do not know the time but I believe it is early
    afternoon.  My friend tape this weeks show and I have the scores and/or
    standings for Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay and Chile.  I have it all
    written down and I posted in the next replies.
    
    I will try to keep an eye on that show this coming Wednesday.
    
    Carlos

After round 10 of 1st Division, here are the standings:

Team				 W	 T	 L	Pts
--------------			---	---	---	---
Velez				 7	 2	 1	16
River Plate			 6	 1	 3	13
Estudiantes			 4	 3	 2	11
San Lorenzo			 4	 3	 2	11
Boca Juniors			 4	 3	 3	11
Independiente			 2	 7	 1	11
Racing Club			 5	 1	 4	11
Espa�ol				 5	 1	 4	11
Argentinos			 2	 7	 1	11
Lanus				 2	 6	 2	10
Mandiyo				 2	 6	 2	10
Gimnasia			 2	 6	 2	10
R. Central			 2	 5	 3	09
Belgrano			 2	 5	 3	09
Talleres			 2	 5	 3	09
Huracan				 2	 4	 3	08
Platense			 2	 4	 4	08
Ferro				 2	 3	 5	07
San Martin			 2	 2	 6	06
Newell's Old Boys		 0	 4	 5	04
    

			1993 Paulista League

			G R O U P   A
			-------------

Team				 W	 T	 L	Pts
-------------			---	---	---	---
Palmeiras			14	06	02	34
Sao Paulo			13	05	04	31
Uniao Sao Joao			11	08	03	29
Santos				11	05	06	27
Conrithian			11	04	07	26
Guarani				11	04	07	26
Mogi Mirim			09	08	05	26
Rio Branco			08	09	05	25
Bragantino			09	06	07	24
Portuguesa			05	07	10	17
XV De Pirackaba			03	11	08	17
Marilia				04	08	10	16
Ponte Preta			04	07	11	15
Ituano				05	04	13	14
Juventus			04	05	13	13
Noroeste			04	04	14	12

I believe the following are scores from April 11th weekend:

Sao Paulo vs Marilia		2-1
Uniao Sao Joao vs Rio Branco	2-1
Palmeiras vs Portuguesa		2-1
Mogi Mirim vs XV De Pirackaba	2-3
Guarani vs Noroeste		1-0
Bragantino vs Conrithian	2-1
Santos vs Juventus		2-1
Ponte Preta vs Ituano		1-1
    

			1 S T   D I V I S I  O N (2nd Round)
			------------------------

Team				 W	 T	 L	Pts
--------------------		---	---	---	---
Defendor Sporting		 1	 1	 0	03
Nacional			 1	 1	 0	03
Penarol				 1	 1	 0	03
Progreso			 1	 1	 0	03
Rampla Juniors			 1	 1	 0	03
Danubio				 1	 0	 1	02
Huracan Buceo			 0	 2	 0	02
Wanderers			 0	 2	 0	02
Liverpool			 0	 1	 1	01
Racing				 0	 1	 1	01
Cerro				 0	 0	 2	00
River Plate			 0	 0	 2	00

Here are scores from second round:

Cerro vs Defendor Sporting	0-3
Nacional vs Wanderers		2-2
Penarol vs Danubio		3-2
Rampla Juniors vs Bella Vista	1-0
Progreso vs River Plate		1-0
    

			C O P A   C H I L E	(Round 8)
			-------------------

Group 1		Pts
-------		---
Cobreloa	11
Cobresal	09		Cobreloa vs Arica		2-0
Arica		07		Cobresal vs Atacama		2-0
Antofagasta	06		Antofagasta vs Iquique		0-0
Iquique		06
Atacama		05

Group 2         Pts
-------         ---
Dep. La Serena	14
Everton		13		La Serena vs San Felipe		3-0
Coquimbo	09		La Calera vs Wanderes		1-1
S. Wanderes	07		Everton vs Coquimbo		3-0
U. La Calera	05
U. San Felipe	02

Group 3         Pts
-------         ---
U. De Chile	11
U. De Espa�ol	11		Colchagua vs U. De Chile	0-1
Magallanes 	09		U. De Espa�ol vs Melipilla	5-0
Dep. Colchagua	03		A. Italiano vs Magallanes	2-1
Melipilla	01

Group 4         Pts
-------         ---
Colo Colo	12
Palestino	11		Colo Colo vs Santa Cruz		6-1
U. Catolica	10		Palestino vs U. Catolica	1-0
A. Italiano	05
Santa Cruz	04

Group 5         Pts
-------         ---
O'Higgins	10
Dep. Concepcion	10		O'Higgins vs Concepcion		1-1
Nublense	07		Lota Schwager vs Rangers	1-1
Rangers		07		F. Vial vs Nublense		3-0
Lota Schwager	01

Group 6         Pts
-------         ---
Dep. Temuco	14
Huachipato	07		Huachipato vs Puerto Montt	1-1
Puerto Montt	07		Osorno vs Temuco		1-1
Dep. Osorno	07
Fernandez Vial	05

    

    
    Re .72
    
    My understanding of the group at the moment (Mexico meet Canada this
    weekend) is the following
    
    Canada 3:5
    Mexico 3:4
    El Sal 3:2
    Hon    3:1
    
    Canada beat Honduras and El Salvador at home, drew away in Honduras.
    
    Mexico lost in El Salvador (major shock) but won at home to El Salvador
    and Honduras (I think).  I don't know if El Salvador have met Honduras
    yet.
    
    It does seem to be a 2 horse race and I think Mexico will win the group
    leaving Canada to playoff with Oz/NZ and the South American runners up.
    I suppose Canada will go and win in the Azreca now leaving me with egg
    all over my face. :-)
    
    Gary.

    Gary,
    
    Gald to see someone else in here on a Saturday. I saw the Canada
    game at Honduras and it was a disgrace - this from someone who saw
    the Joe jordan 'handball' on TV and the Davie cooper 'dive' in person
    (:==:). clearly Canada outplayed Honduras and they were rightly
    outraged at the end - surely some action must be taken against the Ref
    
    Teh first penalty was definitely not one, coming minutes after the game
    was stopped after the Candians scored and a linesman was hit by
    something and with riot police stationed to keep the crowd off the
    pitch this was definitely a 'home-team-penalty'. The last penalty well
    into injury time well you just had to see it to believ how incredible
    it was - if Honduras had been 5 down would the Ref have given 5
    penalties??
    
    the game against El Salvador showed the Canadians to be a useful side
    - perhaps for those who haven't seen them a good impression would be of
    the standard of the U.S team who played in 90 in Italy - not
    worldbeaters but not pushovers.
    
    i missed the game last Sunday (working - even on a Sunday - and my VCR
    doesn't respond to phone commands from 2500 miles away) was it the
    Mexico game or not? anyway tomorrow is supposed to be Mexico v Canada
    on tV so i'll let you know what I see.
    
    Carlos, 
    
    keep those results from South America, apart from teh famous clubs
    we've all heard of before it's very ineteresting to hear how Liverpool
    are doing in Uruguay (what is their injury list like?) and how Everton
    are doing in Chile (do they just employ short players too?)
    
    someone out in SF did mention the ESPN games but unforunately I haven't
    seen or taped them yet as I've been working and off the network for
    the last 12 days i'll check them out this week.
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks
     
     

    
    Andrew...
    
    That Honduras - Canada game sounds like a typical Liverpool home match,
    I'm surprised you didn't you notice the similarity.... :-)
    
    Paul

    Paul,
    
    It's been 3 seasons (since the King Kenny days) since I saw a home game
    (4000 miles is a long round trip!) so i'll have to take your word for
    it (:==:)
    
    Anyway onto todays game which finished about 15 minutes ago with Mexico
    beating Canada 4-0, it could have been 8 or more as this was definitely
    a case of men against boys.
    
    Ramon ramirez opened the scoring after 22 minutes with a speculative
    grass-cutter from the byline, the Canadian goalie knelt at the post to
    pick it up and suddenly it bounced off his knee and chest into the goal
    (did someone say Gary Sprake).
    
    encouraged Mexico swarmed forward and one of their players managed to
    put the ball over the goal when standing inside the 6-yard box! there
    then followed a great free-kick (sort of stuart pearce style) that the
    Canadian goalie did well to fend off.
    
    It was clearly just a matter of time before the second came and sure
    off Ramon ramirez got the second on 35 minutes after a text book
    one-two on the edge of the box (Ramirez is i believe a full-back)
    
    Just before half-time Canada pulled off Carl Valentine (ex-Stoke)
    and they had their only real chance of a goal when the sub completely
    fluffed a tap-in inside the 6-yard area and ended up getting himself
    booked for kicking out at the mexican goalie (who was dresses in a 
    mannequin outfit!) in frustration.
    
    The second-half continued as the first ended with mexico pouring
    forward clearly after some more goals and the third arrived after
    8 minutes when Luis Florres put the slightest touch of his head on
    a cross and with the ball heading safely past the post the Candian
    goalie punched at it the wrong way and sent the ball flying
    spectacularly into his own net!!
    
    More mexican attacks saw the crossbar taking a pounding and after 23
    mins they got a penalty (it looked valid to me) which was converted
    by a player called garcia-Aspe to make it 4-0.
    
    Still Mexico poured forward - I don't think Canada troubled the Mexican
    goalie at all - but the 5th never came. again with just the goalie to
    beat one of the players blasted it off the crossbar, another header
    down towards the ground was excellently pushed up over the goal by the
    canadian goalie and what was strange was in my recollection none of
    these shots were from the main striker Hugo Sanchez of Real Madrid
    fame who was definitely on the field all game but didn't seem to
    contribute anything (did someone say John Barnes).
    
    anyway that's how the game finished, it could have been a lot more than
    4-0 and the table looks like
    
    		P	W 	D	L	PTS
    
    Mexico	4	3	0	2	  6
    Canada	4	2	1	1	  5
    El salvador 3	1	0	2	  2
    Honduras	3	0	1	2	  1
    
    El salvador are playing Honduras at 5pm EDT (in half-an-hour)
    with highlights at 11.30 so i'll post that score if i see it.
    
    Next week sees Mexico going to Honduras. looks like Mexico to
    win the group now.
    
    Oh and finally the ESPN south American football mentioned in
    an earlier reply is on at 1pm EDT on Wednesday.
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks
    

    So how does that team from Chile get to be called "O'Higgins"? 
    
    There's got to be a story behind that... 
    
    Paul

    Carlos,
    
    Thanks for the update and all the standings, it will be great if you can
    keep posting them. For me has been impossible to get any news from S.A..
    One of the previous notes indicated ESPN broadcasts the games Wed's at 
    1:00 pm, I'm looking forward to tape the games.
    
    I saw the first half of the Mexico-Canada game and watched the end of
    it. What a game Mexico played, I thought it was great. No doubt as the
    speaker announced the Canadians are okay if they are ahead or are on a
    tie game, they do know how to handle coming from behind.
    
    Keeping in mind the seasons just started, I'm surprised to see the
    current positions. Some of the key teams from Brazil, Chile, Argentina
    were way down on the standings. Thanks again for posting the results.
    
    
    Regards,
    
    Carlos
    

    Honduras beat El Salvador 2-0 with a goal from a corner in the
    first half and an own goal in the second half when the defender
    running back towards his own goal couldn't get out of the way 
    of a cross. Updated table looks like
    
    		P	W 	D	L	PTS
    
    Mexico	4	3	0	2	  6
    Canada	4	2	1	1	  5
    Honduras	4	1	1	2	  3
    El salvador 4	1	0	3	  2
    
    On Sunday Mexico visit Honduras and Canada play host to
    El Salvador.
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks

    
    How come Mexico have won 3 drawn 2 when they have only played
    4 games...
    
    Andy..B

    Andy,
    
    Because I can't add up! Mexico have won 3 and lost 1 ok?
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks

    Well Mexico beat Honduras in a very bad-tempered game which ended with
    Mexico picking up the two points in a 4-1 victory which keeps them 1
    point ahead of Canada who beat El Salvador 2-1
    (haven't seen the second game yet it's on at 11.30pm)
    and takes it to a winner takes all game next Sunday which sees one
    become the first team to qualify for the World Cup proper.
    
    Whereas the previous game I saw Honduras play at home ended with 3 dubious 
    penalities, this time we saw three dubious sending-offs. The best way
    to describe the first-half is 'brutal' - it was if both sides had
    Stuart pearce/Mark Dennis at full-back, Vinny jones/terry Hurlock
    in midfield and Mark Hughes up front. The defenders and midfield
    operated on the motto "if he moves kick him til he stops, if he doesn't
    move kick him til he starts"! the strikers operated on the Mark Hughes
    "elbow him then fall over and roll a lot"  model.
    
    Despite that mexico took the lead after only 2 minutes. Hugo sanchez
    fell over requiring treatment from his hairdresser - and the ball was
    spotted to the left (as you look) of the goal area level with the
    six-yard line. Up steps Garcia-Espez who whacks the ball a-la
    stuar pearce with his left-foot into the left-top corner of the goal
    - I hope i've described that well enough for you to picture how
    incredible it is as I still don't quite know how did it.
    
    after 5 minutes Mexico's manager was sent off presumably for
    questioning whether the ref's parents were Honduran and a little
    later teh assistant manager and the FIFA 4th official got into almost
    a bout of fisticuffs.
    
    Then right on the stroke of half-time (there was nothing else of merit
    in the intervening 40 minutes) down goes our friend Hugo and a
    free-kick is awarded on the corner of the area. up steps luis flores
    and curls the ball gently into the top corner so half-time 2-0.
    
    Second-half starts and after 5 more minutes mexico have the third goal
    they were after from luis garcia from a header and immediately settled 
    for the win.
    
    as always when sitting on a win , Honduras got a scrappy consolation
    goal after 66 minutes at which point the ref appeared to realise
    that he should have sent off about 6 players in the opening 10 minutes
    and decided to make amends by sending off Funez (Hon) and Garcia-ESpe
    for nothing more than a case of 'my brother is big than yours'. this
    was a real shame and could be important if as I think espe will miss
    the final game against Canada for he is the one true world class player in
    the Mexican side
    
    nothing much in the remaining 20 minutes until right at the death down
    goes our friend Hugo again, the free-kick goes across the area and up
    steps a Honduran defender on the penalty-spot to plant a perfect
    downward header sending his own goalie the wrong way! and in injury
    time the ref decided to send another Honduran off.
    
    So Mexico take a one-point lead up to their final game against the
    Moose and Lumberjacks and after that the loser either play-off against the
    winner of the Caribbean group or Oceania I don't know for sure, before
    having to wait til the autumn to play-off against the 4th south
    american team for another place.
    
                                                                   
    here's the table.
    
    		P	W 	D	L	PTS
    
    Mexico	5	4	0	1	  8
    Canada	5	3	1	1	  7
    Honduras	5	1	1	3	  3
    El salvador 5	1	0	4	  2
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks
    

    As i got a chance this afternoon to watch a tape of the ESPN programme
    Latin-Futbol weekly i though i'd adda short review of that too
    (it'll make a change to reading all thos replies in the Manc note!)
    
    In the half-hour we saw the goals from 2 brazilian games. After 24
    games Palmeiros lead Sao Paolo by a point but that didn't stop
    their coach from resigning. Also portuguesa saccked their second
    coach this season.
    
    Next we saw goals from 2 Copa Chile games - this league is split into
    6 groups and with only 1 game left before it finishes everton are
    second in group 2 and the legendary O'Higgins lead group 5.
    
    then - a must for all Scotland fans - we saw extended highlights from a
    Costa rican game where after 29 games Nerediano are 9 points clear in
    group A and Alajuelense are 4 clear in group B.
    
    after that we got the tables only for:
    
    Apparently Uruguay are only in week 3 of their season but Liverpool
    remain without a win!
    
    In argentina after 11 games Velez lead River Plate.
    
    In mexico where the season has paused after 36 weeks for the CONACAF
    games we have Atlante by 7 over veracruz in A, nexaca by 9 over America
    in B, Togres by 2 over Cruz Azul in C, and  Loan level with Monterey in
    4.
    
    I assume that most of the season are moving to a close ahead of the
    Copa America in June?
    
    Oh and finally the last 8 of the Copa Libertdores is
    Barcelona (Ecuador) v U, Catolica (Chile)
    Olimpia (Paraguay) v C.POrteno (paraguay)
    Flamengo (Brazil) v Sao Paulo (brazil)
    Sp, Cristal (peru) v america (colombia)
    
    I don't know if there's anything to read into this ahead of the
    World Cup qualifiers but note there are no Argentinian nor Uruguayan
    teams left - maybe Paraguay could be a dark horse?
    
    regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks 

    
    Were Mexico banned from the last World Cup or sumfink like that......
    
    can't remeber....thanks.
    
    colin

    Colin,
    
    maybe - if so then it was something to do with them playing over-age
    players in an under-21 game.
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks

    MEXICO have just become the first team to qualify for the World Cup
    finals next summer (joining U.S and Germany who got there
    automatically) by beating Canada 2-1 in Toronto to win the group by
    3 points. Canada now face a tortuous series of games against the
    unknown Oceania winner and the 4th South American team if they are to
    qualify.
            
    The game was played at the Varsity stadium on the outskirts of Toronto
    and it looked like a College American Football stadium to me as you
    could still the white lines from that game and the middle of the field
    was just brown dirt where the grass had been worn away - I would guess
    the capacity was about 25,000.
    
    Canada who had to win started brightly looking for an early goal and
    Hooper had a couple of good shots pushed aside by the keeper. mexico
    came into it slowly but did appear to be looking for the win as opposed
    to risking playing for the draw. after about 10 minutes they forced
    a series of about 6 corners and from the last of them Flores headed the
    ball against the cross-bar and the ball bounced down just outside the
    goal.
    
    after 17 minutes Canada got the goal they needed when banbury put them
    ahead and they almost got another after 30 when Sweeney blasted a
    free-kick that the goalie did well to keep out. Then with Canada
    appearing to relax Mexico struck back when Hugo Sanchez tapped in a
    goal from close range after 36 minutes.
    
    In the second-half the ref bagan waving yellow cards around - I think
    there were 4! even though this game was almost angelic compared to the
    others in the group.
    
    After a few minutes Hooper put the ball in the net but was called
    offside (the replay was arguable) and Mexico stung by this went on
    the offensive and missed two sitters one when the Canadian goalie
    was lying on the ground writhing in agony after being clattered by
    the mexican striker cruz.
    
    Then with 5 minutes left and Canada pushing up they were caught by a
    quick break which saw Cruz tap the ball into an unguarded net from
    about 3 yards. 
    
    The game ended on a slightly farcical note when Forrest the Canadian
    goalkeeper was called for obstruction in the opposing penalty area!!
    he had gone up for a free kick - Bruce Grobellaar eat your heart out.
    
    So mexico get through which is definitely good news for the world cup
    organisers as those games will now sell out - presuming Mexico are
    seeded somehow in say L.A
    
    Well that leaves 21 more places up for grabs i don't expect we'll
    see another definite qualifier for a few months.
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks
    
    

    Does any one know who won the Copa Libertadores?
    
    Last I heard was that the final was between:
    
    		Universidad Catolica (Chile)
    			    vs
    		      Sao Paulo (Brazil)
    
    Carlos	

    
    	I thought Sao Paulo won the two-leg final.
    
    	Andy.

    Sao paulo took the first leg 5-1 and then mysteriously on the same day
    that the second leg was on UNIVISION 5 of the players appeared playing
    for Brazil in the U.S.
    
    I didn't leave my tape player runner for the 2nd leg or for the ESPN
    Latin Futbol weekly so I don't know for sure what happened in the 2nd
    leg but i hope Sao Paulo didn't lose 5-0 after fieldinga weakened
    side.
    
    regards,
    
    Andrew.d.wicks

  Sao Paulo won it fairly easily.... They lost the second leg I think it was 4-2
or 3-1. The Uruguayans had a 2-0 lead after just 20 mins.. This game was played
about two weeks ago..


                                                                  -dave-

    Hi guys,
    
    Well, I have seen the schedule for the COPA AMERICA in magazines and
    newspapers but not one of them has the starting time. I am ready with
    my satellite starting tomorrow but I sure like to know the starting
    times to make it easier for me.  If anyone knows the exact time, could
    you please post it. 
    
    Carlos

    Here some score of the Copa America:
    
    Ecuador 6 Venezuela 1
    Uruguay 1 USA 0
    Colombia 2 Mexico 1
    
    
    It's too bad that here in the USA, the only way to watch the games is
    pay per view by only a few Cable Companies in the USA.
    
    Carlos

    carlos,
    
    presumably some of the highlights will be on ESPN or maybe UNIVISION
    though?
    
    do you have any more details on the Colombia game that looks a bit of
    a surprise.
    
    Please keep the results coming as i'm sure this tournament will be
    a very important pointer to the World Cup qualifiers that follow
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks

    Carlos,
    
    DO you have the schedule times for the rest of the games??
    Thanks for posting the results
    
    
    Carlos
    

    Weekday games will start at 5:00pm and at 8:30pm.  If there is only one
    game that day, it will start at 8:30pm.
    
    As for the weekend games, 1st game will start around 12:00-12:30 and
    second game will start around 2:30-3:00pm.
    
    Chances are that UNIVISION might not show any of the games live this
    weekend.  It seems that all games will be closed-circuit TV and only
    certain cable companies (usually the ones in BIG Cities) will carry it
    by pay-per-view. I hope I am wrong and I hope tha UNIVISION will show
    some games this weekend.
    
    As to the games, I heard Ecuador was impressive against Venezuela but
    the test will be against Uruguay next week.  Ecuador will be facing the
    USA this Saturday.  
    
    USA did not look that bad at all against Uruguay. According to the USA
    TODAY, the USA had two chances to tie the game at the end.
    
    As to the Colombia and Mexico game, I heard that Colombia dominated the
    first half and they were displaying some exciting passing skills.
    Colombia had a comfortable 1-0 lead at half-time.  In the second half,
    Mexico started putting pressure and they got the equalizer.  The game
    was even until 15 minutes left to go when most of the lights at the
    stadium went out.  The game finally resumed when the light were fixed
    and Colombia started dominating and finally got the winner with about 3
    minutes to go.
    
    Carlos

I saw the Ecuador - Venezuela game, and Ecuador, as you said, looked totally
dominant. However, Venezuela don't exactly have a high pedigree in internationals
so we will see how good they really are against Uruguay & the USA. Having said
that a couple of the goals were crackers. Does anyone know how Garcia (??) is??
He got sent off for a bad challange but looked to receive a pretty bad injury to
his right leg/knee. I don't think that even Larry Olivier could have acted that
well, so it must have been bad.

As for the Uruguay - USA game. I caught most of the second half. According to
the commentator, the first half was a non event. The second half started brightly
with some fast moving entertaining stuff, but after 20-25 mins slowed down. I
don't know when the Uruguayans scored, but they could have had more had it not
been for the USA keeper, who kept fumbling the 1st shot, always seemed
to get to the loose ball first. The USA looked pretty devoid of ideas, I guess
that's only natural, as they are still pretty na�ve in the international arena, 
but the potential is there, as all the players worked very hard.
Also they didn't appear to have a full team.... No Meola, Wegerle, Harkes,
Dooley. Are they all injured???

Al

  Carlos the second goal for Mexico was very dubious. There was a goalmouth
scramble and the Columbian players threw their arms in the air and the ref gave
a goal. The Mexicans were furious and rightly so. After the game when one of the
Mexicans players went over to shake hands with the ref he was dragged away by his
team mates. A draw would have been a fair result.

                                                               -dave-

    Last night results
    
    Argentina 1 Bolivia 0
    
    
    
    Carlos
    

    re: 102
    
    I have no idea how the goals where but I heard that Colombia had two
    goals called back and that the winner was served justice for the previous
    ones that the ref nullified.
    
    I can not offer my opinion since I did not see the game but these were
    comments from a friend (who saw the game) and my father (who heard the
    game).
    
    Al, where did you see the game?  I sure like to see next week's game
    (Colombia vs Argentina, Ecuador vs Uruguay).
    
    Carlos
    
    

    
    Re Copa America
    
    Uruguay and Ecuador have duly qualified for the quarter finals although
    Uruguay could only manage a 2-2 draw with whipping boys Venezuela. 
    Ecuador duly disposed of the US and Venezuela.  Venezuela could still
    make a shock quarter final appearance by defeating the U.S.
    
    Brazil could only manage a dismal scoreless draw with Peru.  I
    recommend this as a cure for insoumnia.  Paraguay beat Chile.
    Arghentina beat Bolivia and Colombia defeated Mexico.
    
    Gary.

Carlos,

The Tournament is being shown on Eurosport satelite channel.

Yesterday's results...


	Argentina 1 - 1 Mexico
	Columbia  1 - 1 Bolivia

Al

    Ecuador beat the U.S 2-0 I believe

Copa America Results
Ecuador 2 USA 0            Group A
Uruguay 2 Venezuela 2    
----------------------------
Brazil 0 Peru 0            Group B 
Paraguay 1 Chile 0
----------------------------
Argentina 1 Mexico 1       Group C
Colombia 1 Bolivia 1


Tony

PS. I know some of these have been mentioned in previous notes.!!

    
    Re -1, Argentina also beat Bolivia 1-0 and Colombia beat Mexico 2-1 in
    the first series of games.  Tonight it's Paraguay v Peru on Eurosport.
    Kickoff is 11.30pm BST. 
    
    It's the top 2 plus the 2 bst losers for the quarter finals.
    
    Ecuador and Uruguay are already through.  Argentina and Colombia will
    almost certainly join them.  You've got to fancy Paraguay and Brazil to
    come out of group B.   
    
    Gary.

    EUROSPORT!!!
    
    Thanks guys, I am going to try this evening to see if I can get the
    game thru that channel.
    
    Carlos

    
    Just heard the following results
    
    Chile 3 Brazil 2
    Paraguay 1 Peru 1
    
    No typos.  WOW.  Brazil must beat Paraguay now.
    
    Gary. 

    RE: Brazil
    
    Does anyone know if most of their best players are playing in this
    tournament?
    
    I read that Brazil is going to save their best players for the World Cup
    qualification that will start in about 3 weeks.  My understanding is
    that their best players are getting tired because of tournaments in
    Europe that some were involved and quite a few are from the SAO PAULO
    team that have play 3-4 games a week.  Also, some players are still
    playing in the Brazilian league that is just finishing up and that is
    more important than this tournament.
    
    So, I am just wondering, if they do have most of their best players
    then they are in trouble because they have to face Ecuador, Uruguay,
    Bolivia in the WC qualification.  If most of their best players are not
    playing then it is really not a surprise that they are not doing well
    so far.
    
    Carlos
    
    P.S. I believe this is also true for Argentina even thought they start
    their WC qualification in August.

    
    
    	USA 3 Venezuela 3
    
    This was an awful game but full of controversy and excitement.  USA led
    3-0 after 52 minutes.  This would probably have given them a quarter
    final spot but enter Dolgetta.....
    
    Henderson scored the first after 20 minutes.  A few minutes before the
    break the USA were given a goal after a shot was parried and the
    rebound tipped onto the crossbar.  The ball definitely didn't cross the
    line.  It didn't even go close.  It was as far over the line as Geoff
    Hurst's shot but the referee or was it the linesman gave the goal
    (maybe he was Russian? ;-) ).  Kinnear made it 3 after 52 minutes and
    the USA appeared to have the 3 goal margin they needed to have a good
    chance of qualifying.
    
    Enter Dolgetta, 69 minutes he scores with Venezuela's first shot on
    target.  82 minutes he scores with their second shot on target. 
    Venezuela were then reduced to 10 men.  It appeared that Caliguri
    feigned injury in the incudent but the replay was inconclusive.
    Venezuela snatched a draw in injury time when Esten???*** (it was 1.30
    am) broke thropugh the defence.
    
    This sparked off mass celebrations.  Venezuela are the worst side in
    South America.  They've won one Copa America game ever - a famous
    victory over that other major footballing nation Bolivia in 1969.  The
    scored 1 goal the last time when they held Chile to 5-1.  After the
    expected 6 goal hammering by mighty Ecuador Venezuela got an incredible
    draw v Uruguay and have now come from 3 down to share the spoils with
    the U.S.
    
    USA were simply awful, even at 3-0.   They missed a hatful of chances.
    Harbour has got to be the worst international centre forward I've ever
    seen.  Bruce Murray missed a few gilt edged chances.  How is he the all
    time leading goalscorer?
    
    Anyone get the score of Uruguay v Ecuador?
    
    Gary.

>   Harbour has got to be the worst international centre forward I've ever
>   seen.

Couldn't agree more Gary. I don't even think he'd make my Sunday football team.
He was absolutely attrocious. I wouldn't be surprised if he's played his last
international. I think the manager made a big mistake taking off Kinnear. I only
saw the 2nd half, but he looked like one of the few American's trying, and he
couldn't have done any worse than Harber.

re the sending off, I thought initially that it was totally justified, but after
seeing the replay, it certainly looked like Caliguri was making a meal of it.
However the ref was only a few yards away, and even if proper contact wasn't
made, he obviously felt that the intent was there.

Good fight back from Venezuella though, with 3 very good goals.

Al ( With matchsticks in my eyes )

    Ecuador defeated Uruguay 2-1. Ecuador's second goal came 2 minutes
    before de game was over. Based on the comments, Ecuador finished first,
    Uruguay second, USA should be third (goal average), and Venezuela
    fourth.
    
    Carlos
    

    
    Mexico qualified after drawing 0-0 v Bolivia.  It was deserved - just
    about.  Good game, far better than USA v Venezuela.
    
    Re -1, Venezuela were 3rd.  USA finished bottom of the group with 1
    point.
    
    Anyone know the Colombia v Argentina result?
    
    Standings (from memory)
    
    A Ecuador 3:6
      Uruguay 3:3
      Venez   3:2 (GD -5)
      USA     3:1
    
    B Colombia  2:3
      Argentina 2:3
      Mexico    3:2 (beat Bolivia on goals scored, qualify as best 3rd side)
      Bolivia   3:2
    
    C Paraguay  2:3
      Chile	2:2  (scored more goals than Peru - same GD)
      Peru      2:2
      Brazil    2:1
    
    tonight
    
    Brazil v Paraguay & Peru v Chile
    
    Barring a major upset 3 teams will qualify from Group C.
    
    
    Gary.

    Gary I saw some of the game last night, and one thing that stood out was
the amount of time the players had to control the ball before been tackled unlike
when they play European teams.

    I saw about 30mins of the game and there was some neat passing movements
from both teams. The grass had a very unusual design, something I have never
seen before, it looked like something out of a horticulture show!!!!!!!

                                                                       -dave-

    Here is the latest I heard:
    
    Colombia vs Argentina 1-1  Colombia wins the Group.
    
    
    Brazil beat Paraguay last night 3-1 (I am not sure of the scores) so
    Brazil makes the quaterfinals.
    
    The biggest news is that Peru upset Chile 1-0 and Peru wins the group
    while Brazil comes in 2nd and Paraguay in 3rd.
    
    
    I believe the quaterfinal matches are the following:
    
    Tomorrow:
    
    		Ecuador vs Paraguay
    		Colombia vs Uruguay
    
    Sunday:
    		Peru vs Mexico
    		Argentina vs Brazil
    
    
    Here is the final standings:
    
    Group A
    -------
    Ecuador	6 pts
    Uruguay	3 pts
    Venezuela	2 pts	GD -5
    USA		1 pt
    
    Group B
    -------
    Peru	4 pts
    Brazil	3	GD +4
    Paraguay	3	GD -1
    Chile	2
    
    Group C
    --------
    Colombia	4 pts	GD +1	GF 3
    Argentina	4 pts	GD +1	GF 2
    Mexico	2 pts	GD -1	GF 2
    Bolivia	2 pts	GD -1	GF 1
    
    
    Currently, Ecuador is the favorite to win the tournament.
    
    Carlos
    

    Here are the quaterfinal results:
    
    
    Ecuador 3	Paraguay 0
    
    Ecuador are the favorites to win this tournament.  They are playing
    great.  Dominated most of the game.
    
    Colombia 1	Uruguay 1 (Colombia wins penalty shoot out 5-4)
    
    Uruguay takes the early lead.  From that point on Colombia domiates the
    game and ties the game with about 10 minutes to go.
    
    Mexico 4	Peru 2
    
    Peru did not realize that Mexcio has a good team until Mexico had a 4-0
    lead.  Peru dominated the rest of the game but it was toooooooo late.
    
    Argentina 1 Brazil 1 (Argentina wins penalty shoot out 7-6)
    
    
    
    
    Semi-finals are the following:
    
    
    		Wednesday:	Ecuador vs Mexico
    		Thursday:	Argentina vs Colombia
    
    
    For those people in the Mass/NH area, there is a place in Lawerence
    that will be showing the semi-finals.  I heard it costs $10 to get in.
    If you are interested, let me know and I will give directions.
    
    Carlos
    

                         -< Copa America  semifinals >-
    
    	Mexico 2    Ecuador 0  
    
    	This was the score of the first semifinal game played last night.
    	Mexico awaits now for the winner of the socond semifinal game
    	which will be played tonight at 7:30 pm ET  Colombia vs Argentina
    	I don't have any more/or detailed info about the game.
    
	Viva Colombia carajo    	
    	^|-
    	`-'   /PZ	
    
    

    I saw the other semi-final last night and what an interesting game.  In
    the first half, both team were very conservative and were very physical
    specially in the midfield.  No one really was able to get thru the defenses
    but Argentina did control the ball a lot better.
    
    Half time 0-0
    
    In the second half, both teams started with the attacks.  Both teams
    took some great shots but Goycochea (Argentina's goalie) and Cordova
    (Colombia's goalie) did some incredible saves.  Finally with 15 minutes
    into the half, a player from Colombia gets the red card.  Five minutes
    later Argentina puts in another striker.  Oh well, it seemed that
    Colombia was doomed but instead Colombia dominated the rest of the
    half. Incredible plays by Asprilla, and Valderrama.  Colombia was all
    over the field, Argentina could not control the ball very well and
    could not take advantage of the extra man.  Colombia came so close of
    scoring twice.  When Colomba did score (incredible play by Asprilla) it
    was called back for offside.  Excellent call by the ref (however I was
    not happy).  
    
    Full time 0-0
    
    Into penalties, Colombia starts first.  Both teams score their first 5
    shots.  Goycochea then saves the sixth shot from Colombia while
    Argentina scores. 
    
    Argentina wins on penalties 6-5.
    
    Colombia deserved the win as they outplay Argentina with 10 men.
    
    This will not be the last time these two teams will meet.  They will be
    facing each other in August and September for the World Cup
    qualifications.  Definetely both teams are favorites to win the group
    but it is too bad that only one will be in automatically in the WC.
    
    
    Vamos Colombia!!!!!
    
    
    Carlos

Well The Argies won the Copa America last night, beating Mexico 2-1.

I forgot it was on, and only caught the last 20 mins or so.

Argentina went ahead, Mexico equalised from the penaly spot ( Just before I
tuned in ), and the Argentinians scored a very good goal with about 10-15
minutes to go. The game then completely disintegrated into a disgraceful
performance from the Argentinians � la Italia '90, when they would not let the
Mexicans play, using whatever tactics possible, and if a Mexican even breathed
on them they'd fall to the ground, as if on death's door.

I have found that the standard of refereeing in this tournament has been a
disgrace. If this is the best South America can come up with, then no wonder the
players include all these antics in their game. The refs are too soft to do
anything about it. To comment on a point made in the Olympique Marseilles topic
(Note 73.39) I think the reason that the British aren't so bad at feigning
injury, is that on the whole, the referees don't stand for it, and I have seen
players being booked for it on more than one occassion.

Al

    
    I watched the whole game and wanted Mexico to win like most of the
    neutrals.
    
    I didn;t think Argentina were disgraceful.  They defended well but they
    did try to kill the game.  Mexico tried to play football but strong
    defence and Goycochea denied them.
    
    Batistuta scored 2 superb second half goals.  Mexico equalised in
    between from the penalty spot.  They deserved at least a penalty shoot
    out.
    
    I thought the referee did quite well.
    
    Overall it wasn't a great tournament.  Iwas a little disappointed as I
    expected more.
    
    Gary.

    a couple of other bits of news.
    
    Rene Higuita the colombian goalkeeper has been arrested on charges of
    being involved with drug dealing and kidnapping - don't know any more.
    
    The Gold Cup (a CONACAF tournament) is being played in Dallas starting
    on July 10th
    Group A has honduras, jamaica, panama and the U.S
    Group B has canada, costa rica, martinique and Mexico
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks

    what happened with the games played on the 8th (world series
    classification round)?,
    
    Carlos
     

    Carlos,
    
    I think the schedule posted way back in .54 must have had a typo in it, 
    because the Group B qualifiers appear to have started today the 18th and not
    the 8th. I base this on the fact that I spent the afternoon watching
    Venezuela v Bolivia live and have just seen the highlights of Ecuador
    v Brazil.
    
    The results were
    Venezuela 1	Bolivia 7
    Ecuador   0 Brazil 0
    
    Well there's a couple of surprises to start with!
    
    Also Univision has been showing at least the Mexican games from
    the Gold Cup beeing played in dallas. I saw Mexico beat Martinique
    9-0 on thursday night but fell asleep during Mexico v Costa Rica
    on Friday night (actually the early hours of Sat morning) so I don't
    know the score. Tomorrow they are showing Mexico v Canada which should be 
    a cracker.
    
    The other group has the U.S in but i've heard no results from there...
    anyone know any results? Honduras, Panama and Jamaica are also in the 
    group. The tournament lasts from july 10th to the 25th.
    
    regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks

    Hi Andrew,
    
    I watched the Bolivia Venezuela game, the results of that game speaks
    for itself. Yeah I did have the wrong date on the schedule that I had.
    I did not know the results from Brazil vs. Ecuador. I did watch the
    game between Mexico and Costa Rica, they tied 1-1 (felt asleep after 1,
    but I woke up at the end of the final period). The semi-final matches 
    for the Copa de Oro are Mexico Vs. Costa Rica and the USA vs. either 
    Panama or Honduras (I was half way asleep again). The games will be 
    televised by Univision. 
    
    Carlos

    Hi guys,
    
    I saw part of the Bolivia vs Venezula game (saw the last 4 goals that
    Bolivia scored) and what a blow out.
    
    Watching the sports news on Univision last night, the semi-finalist for
    the Gold Cup (Copa de Oro) are Mexico,Jamaica, USA, Costa Rica.  I
    believe the match ups are Mexico vs Costa Rica and USA vs Jamaica.
    
    Tonight Univision will show the Mexico vs Canada that was played
    yesterday around 11:30pm.
    
    BTW, This Sunday UNIVISION will show the game Bolivia vs Brazil LIVE at
    3:50pm.
    
    
    Carlos
    
    

    Carloses (or whatever the plural of Carlos is...)
    
    So is it worth me staying up to watch Mexico v Canada tonight? do you
    know whether Univision will be showing the semi's and the final?
    
    I saw the trailer for Bolivia v Brazil so i'll be watching that next
    Sunday - Brazil will obviously have to
    get their act together after the disappointing result against Ecuador
    and there's always Uruguay who could be good.
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.wicks

    Andrew,
    
    Some company in New York (that is what I was told) name Gold
    International shows all the games from North/Central/South America. 
    However, since there are a lot of games that are played at the same
    time, they will pick a game that they believe will bring in more money. 
    
    This company is like pay-per-view and they sell only to people that
    have a busineess (e.g. bar, restaurant, disco) that must show they have
    over 500 customers.  
    
    Anyway, this company is showing ALL the games of the Gold Cup.
    UNIVISION is showing certain games tape delay.  Also, this compnay
    will be showing most of the games of the South American qualification. 
    However, since there will be more than one game for each Sunday, this
    company will probably show most games from Colombia, Uruguay, Argentina
    and Brazil.   Since Gold Int is showing the finals of the GOLD CUP this
    Sunday, it is probably the reason why Univision will be showing the
    Brazil vs Bolivia (E.g Gold Int showed the game of Ecuador vs Brazil
    last night).  I will not count on UNIVISION to show the best
    games of the S.A. WC qualification.
    
    There are few places in the New England Area that are showing these
    games from Gold Int.  The places are Lawerence (Scorpion), Chelsea,
    Revere (Wonderland), Framingham in MA and Providence, RI.  The cost is
    $10 to get in.
    
    
    Carlos
               
    

    Bolivia 2 Brazil 0
    Venezuala 0 Uruguay 1
    
    Well I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't been watching but Brazil went
    down 2-0 to Bolivia this afternoon
    
    Nothing happened in a dismal game for 80 minutes until Bolivia were
    awarded a penalty. The ball was hit straight at the keeper who saved
    it. 
    
    Then after 88 mins the bolivian number 10 got to the byline and 
    slid the ball across the goal to noone in particular. taffarel the
    Brazilian goalie knelt to pick the ball up, it hit his shin and rolled
    over the goal line through his legs.
    
    then one minute later the bolivians broke free and an unchallenged
    number 9 put the ball past Taffarel again.
    
    What can one say Brazil still haven't scored and their manager is
    probably as popular as graham Taylor!
    
    In the other gane Uruguay struggled to a 1-0 victory over Venezuala.

                P  W  D  L  F  A  PTS
Bolivia		2  2  0  0  9  2    4
Uruguay		1  1  0  0  1  0    2
Ecuador         1  0  1  0  0  0    1
Brazil          2  0  1  1  0  2    1
venezuela       2  0  0  2  1  8    0

    Gold cup results:
    
    Mexico 4 - USA 0
    Costa Rica 1 - Jamaica 1
    
    
    
    Carlos
    

    got back-to-back games on UNIVISION today (4 hours of football)
    First we saw Uruguay struggle to a 0-0 draw against Ecuador (who held
    Brazil to the same score) and then we got a rather farcical Argentina
    v Peru game with 3 sendings off and god knows how many bookings.
    
    Argentina 1 Peru 0
    Colombia 0 Paraguay 0 (colombia missed a penalty)
    
    It's the first matches in this group so you work the table out.
    
    In the other group
    
    Uruguay 0 Ecuador 0
    Brazil  5 Venezuela 1   (bear in mind bolivia put 7 past them)
    
                P  W  D  L  F  A  PTS
Bolivia		2  2  0  0  9  1    4
Brazil          3  1  1  1  5  3    3
Uruguay		2  1  1  0  1  0    3
Ecuador         2  0  2  0  0  0    2
venezuela       3  0  0  3  2 13    0
    
    I'm going to be away most of this month so hopefully someone else can
    keep the scores and updated tables going.
    
    Regards,
    
    andrew.D.Wicks

    Here is yesterday's scores:
    
    
    Bolivia 3	Uruguay 1   
    
    Bolivia looks real good.  All they need is to tie Brazil and Uruguay
    away and they will be in the WC.  
    
    This coming Sunday, Brazil @ Uruguay.
    
    Colombia 1 Peru 0
    
    Colombia did anything they wanted to do.  Dominated the whole game.
    
    Argentina 3 Paraguay 1
    
    Argentina could be in trouble this Sunday vs Colombia since Batitusta
    and Ruggeri (sp??) were sent off.  However, with 9 men on the field
    they still score 2 goals against Paraguay.  Paraguay had more time with
    the ball but that's it.  They could not penetrate, and Argentina's
    counter-attack was incredible dangerous.  They had 2 incredible shots that
    came close of scoring.  Yes, Argentina outshot Paraguay even with nine
    men.
    
    The only score I don't have yet is the Ecuador vs Venezuela game.
    
    Carlos

    Yes Bolivia versus Uruguay was a very entertaining match to watch.
    The dominated the match and have good forwards. Would be nice to see
    them in the US. Would that mean Brazil out ?
    
    Thierry

    Group A
    
    If Argentina ties Colombia this Sunday, Argentina could almost count
    themselves in since the rest of their games will be in Argentina. So
    this Sunday is going to be a key game for this group.  If Colombia
    wins, one could almost say that Paraguay and Peru are out.
    
    Group B
    
    Don't count Bolivia in yet!.  Last 2 WC qualification for Bolivia has
    been very similar.  4 years ago they beat Uruguay in Bolivia however in
    the return match, Uruguay demolish Bolivia to disquilify them.  8 years
    ago the same thing happen to Brazil in Bolivia but Bolivia got beaten
    (I believe it wss 5-0) in Brazil.  I am really hoping that Bolivia does
    not choke against Brazil and Uruguay away.  The loser of Brazil and
    Uruguay this Sunday is going to have real tough battle to make it in.
    One thing is for sure, the loser is going to be playing some incredible
    soccer the following matches since both teams will face Bolivia,
    Ecuador and Venezuela at home and the Goal difference is going to be
    the key.  I really feel sorry for Venezuela since their rest of their
    games are away and all the other teams want to score goals for the goal
    differential.  I don't see Ecuador qualifying but they sure can do some
    damage for other teams as they did 4 years ago when they beat Paraguay
    to help Colombia qualify.
    
    
    I am really hoping and will be cheering for the underdogs to win the
    groups (Colombia and Bolivia)..
    
    Carlos
                                            
    

    
    Carlos, Brazil and Uruguay have both dropped points to Ecuador.  I'm
    assuming Bolivia will lose both away games v Brazil and Uruguay.  They
    still have qualification in their own hands.  2 qualify and Bolivia's
    chances will be helped if Brazil win or draw in Uruguay.
    
    Paraguay still have home advantage v Colombia so a win there would make
    a big difference even if Colombia beat Argentina.  I think that will be
    a draw.  Colombia then need to draw in Paraguay.  Peru are already
    virtually out.
    
    Gary.

    
    	..don't know if anyone updated the missing result, but I think
    	Ecuador beat Venezuela 5-0 or 5-1.
    
    
    	Andy.

    Gary, Bolivia is in great shape but I think the key for Bolivia to make
    it in is to do well against Ecuador.  They must beat Ecuador both games
    else they could end up with same points as Brazil and Uruguay. Don't get
    me wrong Bolivia deserves to be in but one must realize that Bolivia
    has been playing in very high altitude which is a BIG advantage for
    them.  I just hope that history does not repeat again for Bolivia where
    they get beaten badly away by Uruguay and Brazil and loose the
    advantage of goal differential which they currently have. Last WC
    qualification Bolivia only needed a tie with Uruguay or not loose by 3
    or more goals.  Well, they lost 4-1 and where eliminated.
    
    A lot of my friends saw the game between Paraguay vs Colombia and it
    was no contest.  Sure the game was tied but Colombia was never in
    danger, Colombia had few shots hit the goal post and they also missed a
    penalty shot. They dominated the whole game.  I saw the game between
    Argentina vs Paraguay and Paraguay was horrible even playing with a 2
    man advantage.  I just don't see Paraguay winning any games.  I believe
    Peru is going to beat them when they play at least in Peru.  Unless
    Paraguay get their act together, I don't see Paraguay being a threat to
    Colombia nor Argentina.
    
    Here is something interesting:
    
    I was reading some articles from spanish magazines and newspapers and
    they all seem to agree that Colombia is a better team then Argentina.
    However, they where stating that the problem with Colombia is they just
    don't seem to be able to have the guys that can score at will. They can
    control and dominate the game but they just seem to have a hard time
    putting the ball in the net.  In the last 4 matches between these teams
    (2 from Copa America), all four games have been draws but Colombia
    showed to be the better team.
    
    Anyway, like I said before I would love to see Bolivia and Colombia win
    the groups.  Of course, I would still like to see Argentina and Brazil
    in the World Cup.
    
    Carlos
                                      

    Argentina's unbeaten streak has finally stopped.
    
    Well, Colombia proved that the magazines and newspapers are not wrong
    as they beat Argentina 2-1 yesterday. Colombia was definetely the
    better team as Argentina never could get control of their offense. 
    Colombia in the other had other great shot that were just a little bit wide
    and there is one theat Goycochea saved.
    
    Colombia scores right way as Valderrama does a great pass to Valenciano,
    who fakes to the right, goes to the left and takes the shot that went
    over the goalie and to the far corner.  In the second half, again great
    passes and Valderrama does a great pass down the middle to Valenciano
    who was alone and scores but goal did not count as he was clearly
    offside.  30 second later, Valderrama does the pass again down the
    middle and this time Valencia takes it goes around the defender, goes
    around the goalie and scores.  Argentina tried to put pressure but
    could not get any control in their offense.  With about 5 minutes to
    go, an Argentinian (don't remeber his name) does great dribbling thru
    two Colombian defensive players and scores.  However, that is all
    Argentina could do. 
    
    Without a doubt, Argentina missed Batitusta and Ruggeri (sp?). 
    Colombia should beat Paraguay this Sunday and everyone knows that the
    return match between these teams is going to be great since Argentina
    will have to win and Colombia would probably need a draw. 
    
    Carlos
    

    Other score:
    
    Brazil vs Uruguay	1-1  (This definetely help Bolivia)
    
    Paraguay vs Peru	1-0 ?  That was the score in the 2nd half.
    
    Bolivia vs Ecuador	?-?  I heard somewhere that Bolivia won but I am
    				not sure.
    
    
    Bolivia and Colombia are looking better, hopefully they don't choke.
    
    Carlos

    
    Carlos,
    
    Bolivia won 1-0 v Ecuador.  This was just as vital as the victories
    over Uruguay and Brazil.  I can't see them failing now.  2 points from
    Venezuela will leave them on 10 points.  Uruguay will need to win in
    Ecuador to match that total (assuming a loss for both teams in Brazil).
    Even then goal difference should swing it for Bolivia.  If necessary
    they may need a draw in Ecuador to be absolutely sure.
    
    Paraguay beat Peru (2-1?).  Colombia look good now however that point
    dropped at home to Paraguay could be costly.  They could still draw in
    Argentina though.  Anyway I'd expect the runner up to beat Australia.
    
    Another full round next Sunday.  Brazil should beat Ecuador and Bolivia
    will beat Venezuela.  Paraguay v Colombia is the real big one.  A
    victory for Paraguay (unlikely but you never know) would give the group
    to Argentina and leave Paraguay a good chance of the runners up spot.
    
      
    Gary. 

    
    	Does someone have the updated tables?
    
    	Is it; the top two from each group make it to the finals in '94?
    
    
    		Steve

    
    
    group a:
    
    Winner goes through, 2nd plays Australia
    
    Columbia	3  3  1  5
    Argentina	3  5  3  4
    Paraguay	3  3  4  3
    Peru	3  1  4  0
    
    
    group b: Top 2 go through
    
    Bolivia	4 13  2  8
    Ecuador	4  5  1  4
    Brasil	4  6  4  4
    Uruguay	4  3  4  4
    Venezuala	4  2 18  0
    
    
    Your southern mate Paul :^)

    Colombia 1 Paraguay 1

    Colombia was very lucky to come out with a tie.  The weather was
    definetely a help for Paraguay as it was raining hard and the field was
    very slipery, specially around the goal area.  Paraguay started
    attacking hard with some real hard fouls, however they were not giving
    Colombia any chance of controlling the game. The game looked like it
    was going to get nasty as karate kicks were going high by Paraguay and
    elbows were thrown by Colombia.  Ref gave about 4-6 yellow cards in the
    1st 15 minutes of the game. Paraguay was controlling the mid-field very
    well and came close of scoring first when the goalie from Colombia
    slips while trying to get a ball.  Colombia on a counter-attack finally
    scores to take the lead.  Valencia gets the ball down the middle, 3
    defensive players go towards him, Valencia then passes the ball behind
    one of the defensive players and Rincon out sprints them and takes the
    shot to score. This goal somehow took the energy out of Paraguay as
    Colombia started to control and dominated the rest of the half.
    Colombia came close of scoring 2 more times.  Second half belong to 
    Paraguay as they dominated the mid-field and did not give Colombia a
    chance to control the game.  Paraguay was definete more prepared to
    play in this type of weather as Colombians kept slipping.  Finally, out
    of those many slips Paraguay got a break and scored.  Left winger gets
    the ball, as a Colombian defendor goes towards him, he slips a little,
    that gives the forward a chance to go around him, he continues down the
    wing and then gives a hard pass accross the middle, it goes thru one
    Colombian's legs, the other forward for Paraguay slips and does not get
    the ball, as the ball continues across the middle, another Colombian
    tries to get the ball out but his planted foot slips then a mid-fielder
    for Paraguay is all alone takes the shot high and scores.  In the
    replay, you see the Colombian goalie coming out and he slips. Paraguay
    continue to dominate as they wanted this win badly while Colombia
    seemed to be content with a tie.  Colombia did get 2-3 chances to score
    but they could not control the game.  Colombia was very lucky because
    another slip by a defender almost gave Paraguay another chance to
    score.  Paraguay outplay Colombia in the second half but once Paraguay
    reach the 18, Colombia's defense got the ball out of there.

    This tie definetely hurts Paraguay chances as they now need to beat
    Argentina and Peru (both games away) or Colombia needs to loose their
    last two games.

    Other games:

    Brazil 2 Ecuador 0

    I don't know the FINAL results for the other games yet but here were
    scores the last time I heard, I don't know if this was the final.

    Argentina 1 Peru 0	(that was the score in the 1st half) 
    
    Bolivia 5 Venezuela 0 (That was the score mid-way in the 2nd half, I
    		saw the first half and Venezuela does not have a team. The
    		Venezuelan goalie got a hell of a workout while the goalie
    		for Bolivia barely touch the ball.)
    
    
    Carlos

    
    Argentina beat Peru 2-1 and Bolivia ended up winning 7-0.
    
    Group A
    
                    G  W  D  L   F   A   P
    Argentina       4  3  0  1   7   4   6
    Colombia        4  2  2  0   4   2   6
    Paraguay        4  1  2  1   4   5   4
    Peru            4  0  0  4   2   6   0
    
    Aug. 29 -- Argentina vs. Paraguay
    Aug. 29 -- Colombia vs. Peru
    
    Sep.  5 -- Peru vs. Paraguay
    Sep.  5 -- Argentina vs. Colombia
     
    Group B
                    G  W  D  L   F   A   P
    Bolivia         5  5  0  0  20   2  10
    Brazil          5  2  2  1   8   4   6
    Ecuador         5  1  2  2   5   3   4
    Uruguay         4  1  2  1   3   4   4
    Venezuela       5  0  0  5   2  25   0
    
    Aug. 29 -- Uruguay vs. Venezuela
    Aug. 29 -- Brazil vs. Bolivia
    
    Sep.  5 -- Ecuador vs. Uruguay
    Sep.  5 -- Brazil vs. Venezuela
    
    Sep. 12 -- Uruguay vs. Bolivia
    Sep. 12 -- Venezuela vs. Ecuador
    
    Sep. 19 -- Brazil vs. Uruguay
    Sep. 19 -- Ecuador vs. Bolivia
       

        news from Aug 29th... 
    
        Argies drop a point, Brazil give Bolivia a footballing lesson and
        Uruguay win after 3 games without doing so.
    
	Argentina 0 Paraguay 0
    	Colombia  4 Peru 0
    
        Argentina must win at home in the last game next Sunday against
        Colombia to avoid having to face Australia in the play-off
        However a win for Colombia and a win for Paraguay could see
        Argentina miss out altogether if the scores were high enough
        (you work out the combinations it's too late for me)
    
    Group A
    
                    G  W  D  L   F   A   P
    Colombia        5  3  2  0   8   2   8
    Argentina       5  3  1  1   7   4   7
    Paraguay        5  1  3  1   4   5   5
    Peru            5  0  0  5   2  10   0
    
    Brazil  6 Bolovia 0
    Uruguay 4 Venezuela 0  
    
    Group B
                    G  W  D  L   F   A   P
    Bolivia         6  5  0  1  20   8  10
    Brazil          6  3  2  1  14   4   8
    Uruguay         5  2  2  1   7   4   6
    Ecuador         5  1  2  2   5   3   4
    Venezuela       6  0  0  6   2  29   0
    
    assuming Brazil and Uruguay pick up victories against venezuela
    and ecuador next week and uruguay beat bolivia the week after then
    all 3 teams will go into the final week with played 7 points 10
    however uruguay and brazil have to play each other on the final day
    and thus can't both get the 2 points you'd expect Bolivia to take off 
    Ecuador so Bolivia still could qualify.
    
    A world cup without Argentina and URuguay is still possibl.
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks
                       

    I really hope that history does not repeat again for Bolivia. It will
    be a real shame because they had been playing great soccer since the COPA
    AMERICA tournament. Yesterday's game was a disaster for that team. They
    totally forgot about defense. Well, they have week off to get their act
    together.
    
    IF (this is a BIG "IF) Colombia beats Argentina, will Peru sell
    themselves (as they did in the 1978 WC tournament) again and let
    Paraguay beat them badly?  Argentina better not take any chances.
    
    As for Colombia, if they loose they will play Australia else they
    qualify for the World Cup.  
    
    Vamos Colombia!!!
    
    Carlos
    

    RE .148
    
    This would be very interesting.  Assuming it's correct that Peru sold
    themselves to Argentina in WC 1978, there is an chance that Argentina
    may have a taste of their own medicine.  I don't believe that would be
    good for the next WC (Argentina should be there) but I would have a good 
    laugh.
    Further, if Peru beats Paraguay one can also say that Argentina either
    paid Peru to win, or Paraguay to loose, or both.  I hate situations
    where allegations like this can be made.  I have no doubt, however,
    that games are sometimes fixed, especially in South America.

    			ALMOST!!!!!
    
    Colombia 5 Argentina 0
    
    This is no error.  Colombia beats Argentina 5-0 in Argentina.  This was
    definetely a great game for Colbia.
    
    Argentina started the dominating and attacking Colombia  from every
    direction.  Colombia's defense was holding them well.  After 15 minutes
    into the game, Colombia start controlling the game with their short
    passes.  The game was even until about 2 minutes to go when Valderrama
    goes accross the middle, passes to the right side and Rincon is all
    alone. Rincon goes around the goalie and scores to take the lead. In
    the second half, Argentina dominates again but Colombia was dangerous
    in the counter-attack.  Finally in one of the counter-attacks,
    Asprilla, gets the ball, he dribbles from the left towards the middle,
    the ball goes a little to far, as the defendor was about to take the
    ball, Asprilla slide tackles and kicks the ball for a score.  Argentina
    then attacks like I have never seen them before. However, the Colombian
    goalie, Cordoba was ready.   Argentina took great shots from the right,
    from the left, from the middle but Cordova was doing some great saves.
    Bastitusta was doing some great moves but the Colombian defense  or
    Cordova were doing great saves.  The on another counter-attack,
    Asprilla get the ball at midfield.  He sprints down the left side,
    Argentina's defendor stood with him, Asprilla keeps dribbling down the
    line and finally get in front of the defendor and towards the goalie. 
    Asprilla makes a pass towards the middle but Goycochea punches it out,
    but Alvarez (Colombian midfielder) takes it, goes down the left side,
    takes a cross-over pass that goes above everyone and the Rincon comes
    around and takes the shot to score.
    
    After the third goal, Argentina knew they were defeated and stop
    attacking and where Colombia wasting time.  Colombia was then holding
    on to the ball, passing back, front, sides,back again, it was driving
    Argentina crazy. Argentina gets the ball, they start passing around,
    the pass it back to the sweaper, Asprilla attacks, the defendor tries
    to kick it out but Asprilla gets the ball and he is alne.  As he cgoes
    down the left side slowly, Goycochea comes out and Asprilla takes a
    very calm shot toward the far right corner and scores.  A beautiful
    goal.  This was not the end.  With about 5 minutes to go, Asprilla gets
    the ball again and this time he has 2 defendors in front of him.  He
    passes the ball between them and Valencia is there before Goycochea
    gets it and scores to make it 5-0.
    
    Asprilla and Cordova where the heroes for Colombia.  Colombia proved
    that they were the best team in that group and I belive the Argentinian
    fans agreed as they applaud the Colombian team when they were leaving
    the field. Yes, one of the fans applauding was MARADONA (nope, he was
    not crying this time).
    
    All Paraguay needed to do was win.  Thank god they did not because
    Argentina still the better team.
    
    Paragauy 2 Peru 2
    
    Peru was the better team in this game but they just could not put the
    ball in to win the game.  Peru definetely helped Argentina again.  It
    is kind of funny because every one in South America where thinking
    about 1978 when Peru sold themselves.
    
    Argentina will now face Australia.   Boy, what tough task for
    Australia.
    
    Other games:
    
    Brazil 4 Venezuela 0.
    
    Venezuela came out to play and did not give Brazil an easy time.  At
    least the first three goals by Brazil where done by mistakes of the
    Venezuelan  defense.
    
    
    Way to go Colombia!!!!!
    
    Carlos
    

    WOW! Biggest upset for a long time! Incredible! Columbia will be a
    tough competitor in the World Cup!
    
    Argentina will probably make it but here is to their lack of true
    offensive football - serves them right. Maradona back inthe squad for
    the Australia games? He is believed to have lost a few kilogrammes
    after a crash diet. They need him even inlow form.
    
    Thanks for the report.
    
    Brazil are OK now I imagine? The 3 Paris SG players can fly to Paris
    now. They are needed.
    
    Cheers
    �JF?

    
    Yes, JF remember what they did to France this summer in the West
    Indies. The game was on the same night as the Brazil v  Germany one in
    the US Cup... Looks like all the fancy play from the Columbians was not
    just for show....compared with both Brazil and Germany they have the
    skill but as the French know too often this may not be enough to
    deliver the final goods.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Dezzz.
    
    
      

    
    Well I watched Peru v Paraguay yesterday and it must be said that
    Paraguay didn't approach the game as if they thought they had a chance
    of pipping Argentina. as it transpired one more goal would have sent
    Paraguay and not argentina to play australia. Even though I agree with
    Carlos about Paraguay not being deserving of a WC place I would have
    preferred anyone other than Argentina they are still cynical and dull
    to watch.
    
    Group A - Final table
    
                    G  W  D  L   F   A   P
    Colombia        6  4  2  0  13   2  10
    Argentina       6  3  1  2   7   9   7
    Paraguay        6  1  4  1   6   7   6
    Peru            6  0  1  5   4  12   1
    
    i also saw the first half of Brazil v Venezuala as they coasted to a
    3-0 lead. obviously unpertubed by the need to up their goal difference
    they didn't score the fourth until after 90 minutes were up when the
    opposing goalkeeper dropped a corner and knocked the ball into the net
    
    the other result in this group was URuguay 1 Ecuador 0 so its all
    moving towards my predicted played 7 points 10 tie on the last day
    when Brazil and Uruguay will fight each other for one place leaving
    Bolivia to claim the second place. there are two more weeks left in
    this group.
    
    to answer JF's question I think Brazil might need theire european
    players on the 19th - a defeat could see them miss out altogether!
        
    Group B
                    G  W  D  L   F   A   P
    Brazil          7  4  2  1  18   4  10
    Bolivia         6  5  0  1  20   8  10
    Uruguay         6  3  2  1   8   4   8
    Ecuador         6  1  2  3   5   4   4
    Venezuela       7  0  0  7   2  33   0
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks
    

   Well after reading Carlos report on the Argentina v Columbia game I decided
to stay at home last night with a few football friends and a few beers. Well
the game didn't turn out like I thought it would, and Carlos forgot to mention
that this was a very scrappy game, and if a German had been the ref both sides
would have ended the game playing five-a-side. 

   I agree with Carlos that the Columbian keeper had an excellent game as did
Asprilla, but the best player on the pitch was Valderama, his passing and one
touch football was a delight to watch, he made the Argentinians look like dummys
on several occasions. The last two goals were gems, and I just hope Columbia
play the same way next year it would be a bonus for the world cup. As for
Argentina (no offense to their fans) they can stay at home. Where is the exciting
football that this team played up untill 1990 gone to???? We don't want to see
another WC final where one team just plays defense and hopes to win the cup on
penalities. 

   I hope they realise that when folks talk about South American football flair
that its Brazils name that always comes first, and always will because they like
to play attacking football, and they also try to leave the opposing team members
running on two legs unlike the Argentinians.....

                                                              go oz........

                                                                   -dave-

Dave,

    >...Carlos forgot to mention that this was a very scrappy game,
                                         
    No, I did not forget. However, I though everyone knew that Argentina
    plays very rough in any international game.  If you though this was
    scrappy, you should have seen the Colombia vs Paraguay.  In that game,
    I was not sure if it was soccer game or a karate match. 

    >...if a German had been the ref both sides would have ended the game
    >playing five-a-side.

    ...and the German ref would never have come out of the stadium alive.  
    Good ref's are hard to put on these international games in S.A. ( I
    don't know if this problem exist in Europe) because their lives would
    be at stake.  Last WC qualifications, two refs (one from Colombia
    reffing in Chile and one from Paraguay reffing in Brazil) who were
    consider to be great refs had their lives threaten that they had to
    resign. Anyway, everyone who I saw the game with thought that the ref
    did an excellent job. 
                     
    Re:  Valderrama

    Most of us did not think he did that well compare to what he did with
    Peru, Paraguay and the previous game vs Argentina.  Don't get me wrong,
    he is wonderful to watch and he did some great things in this game.

    RE: Argentina

    I am not sure why everyone thinks that Argentina still playing a
    defensive game.  Maybe its because of what they did in their last WC,
    which I would agree however I believe this is a different team. Two
    years ago, they won ALL their games but one which was a tie against
    Chile in the Copa America. Last year I believe they only had two ties. 
    This year, they are not doing very well compare to the two previous
    years.

    In all the games that I saw between Colombia vs Argentina (2 in Copa
    America, 2 in the WC qualifier), Argentina was the team that came out
    attacking first including this past game. I guess what I am trying to
    say is don't judge Argentina's current team to the team of the last WC. 
    E.g. In the last six years, Brazil has not been able to beat Argentina. 
    The last 3 times that I SAW Brazil vs Argentina, Argentina dominated
    and easily beat Brazil.
         
    I am just wondering if people are judging Argentina fairly or judging
    them because of what they did in their last WC.


    Carlos

        

    re .150
    Great report!  A thousand thanks.  All I could get Sunday was updates
    from Univision (in the US).
    
    re .153
    My feelings exactly.
    
    re .154
    No two people will ever see a game exactly the same way.  I therefore
    appreciate both reports (from .150 and .154).  
    I also agree with youwith this strange attitude in footballers from 
    South America that makes them look so stupid: they obviously have so much 
    skills but somehow think it necessary to physically hurt their opponents.
    For example: Brazil is winning 6-0 against Bolivia with a few minutes left
    to play. Dunga, one of their key players, a very experienced professional,
    made a silly foul that cost him a well deserved red card.  This is true of
    most teams in that region, especially Uruguay, Brazil, and Argentina. 
    The game between Peru and Paraguay Sunday was very clean (by
    comparison).
    
    Argentina has to be in WC 1990.  I secretly hope however to see them
    humiliated.  Not because I hate them.  Simply because of this very
    unattractive defensive system that carried them thru WC90 and they are
    still using now.

re. -.1
> Dunga, one of their key players, a very experienced professional,
> made a silly foul that cost him a well deserved red card.

That is exactly what he wanted, since the next game was against Venezuela. I
believe  that Dunga had two yellow cards already.

/fpa

  Carlos don't get me wrong. Iam judging Argentina on the games I get to see
over here in Europe, which has been mainly the WC qualifiers. Agreed they 
played attacking football, but it was also very physical, and if they qualify
they will have major problems regarding the physical issue because most of the
refs are European.

                          best regards and thanks for the reports....

                                             -dave-

    re .157
    This is not important but I don't quite see why any player would want
    to be sent off.  I have trouble imagining any benefits that could
    result from it.  Perhaps you mean that if Brazil were playing a
    stronger team, Dunga would have been more careful.  If that's the case
    I'd say "Maybe."
    The trend towards violence and other stupidities in South American soccer 
    has been down in my opinion.  Not by much; perhaps too little to
    notice.  But we will get there.  Eventually.  

    
    ...he means that the next game would have been against an EVEN MORE
    PHYSICAL team, and he might have got hurt!!  Therefore, get sent off so
    you don't have to face them!!!!
    
    Ian

    RE: Dunga
    
    If I recall correctly, I believe Dunga was the man use for "payback". 
    I believe in the first half, a Brazilian forward was nailed pretty
    badly.  Dunga's foul was exactly the same, which got a yellow card but
    he got yellow card earlier in the game which made it a red. I recall
    Dunga doing most of the fouls for Brazil.  
    
    Dunga and Simone from Argentina are two good players, however they
    prefer playing to dirty tactics.
    
    Don't be surprise for a very physical game between Brazil and Uruguay
    in two weeks. Keep an eye on Dunga and you will see he will get at
    least a yellow card again.
    
    Carlos
                                                

    Bolivia and Brazil are on the phone to their travel agents at the
    moment having become the 7th and 8th teams to qualify for World Cup
    1994.
    
    Brazil won 2-0 at home against Uruguay. romario got the first about 20
    minutes from the end and I think he also got the second in the last
    10 minutes.
    
    Bolivia needing only to avoid a thrashing at the hands of Ecuador got
    a 1-1 draw away. they were severly outplayed and lucky not to lose
    about 3 or 4-1. In the first half I think they had 1 shot until 2
    minutes into injury time when they played their get-out-of-jail-free
    card and got a goal against the run of play.
    
    in the second half they were content to sit on their one goal lead
    and this survived until about 5 minutes when Ecuador equalised. By this
    time of course they were already safe.
    
    So Bolivia and Brazil through...
    
    anyone know when the Argentina v australia games are?
    
    regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks

    
    > anyone know when the Argentina v australia games are?
    
    First leg in Sydney 31st Oct.  Return is supposed to be scheduled
    for 13th Nov.  I'm going to the first leg so I'll put a match report
    in here.

    
    There are reports that a Colombian drug baron bribed Argentina to throw
    their recent qualifying game.  If this claims can be substatianted both
    countries will be thrown out of the tournament.  Paraguay will qualify
    and Peru will face Argentina.
    
    Anyone got anymore info?
    
    Gary.

~>    and Peru will face Argentina.

	will face Australia, I assume you meant.

    For those that are interested in the Copa Libertadores (Champions Cup
    version). The finals will start this Wednesday between
    
    		Vales		(Argentina)
    		  vs
    		Sao Paulo	(Brazil)
    
    This week's game I believe will be in Argentina and next week (also on
    Wednesday) will be played in Brazil.
    
    If anyone is interested in results of previous rounds, please let me
    know and I will post them.
    
    Carlos

    Is it broadcasted on Univision ?
    
    Thanks, Thierry

    Univision will NOT televise the games live on Wednesdays but I believe
    they will televise the games on Sunday.
    
    Carlos

    Here are the results of the Pan-American soccer matches:
    
    Semi-finals:
    
    		Mexico 2 Colombia 1
    		Argentina 3 Honduras 2
    
    Consolation:
    
    		Colombia 1 Honduras 0
    
    Final:
    
    		Argentina 0 Mexico 0 (Argentina wins shoot-out 5-3).
    
    
    All teams were U-23.  
    
    --------------
    
    The team that surprise everyone in the tournament was HONDURAS.
    
    They beat Brazil in the quater-finals. I believe the score was 1-1 and
    Honduras won the shoot-out.  They played a great game against
    Argentina.
    
    --------------
    
    As for the NEW star from Colombia (some guy name Bentacourt), who
    supposedly is the mid-fielder that will take Valderrama's place, needs
    to learn about keeping his temper down.  He beat up on the referee in
    the semi-final game. My understanding is that the referee made a bad
    call, a throwin was giving to Mexico instead of Colombia.  Well,
    Bentacour expressed himself at the ref, ref gives him a yellow card.
    Bentacour then expressed himself using the ref's mother.  Ref gave him
    the red card. Bentacour then kicks the ref and punches him in the face. 
    
    What a stupid moron. I hope this guy matures quickly.
    
    -------------- 
    
    
    Argentina looked very good and had good young talent
    coming out.  Of course, as long as they have short hair they can play
    for the national team else we would not see these guys.  Batistusta
    said that he would cut his hair to play for the national team. 
    Cannigia and Redondo in the other hand would probably not.
    
    
    That's about it.
    
    Carlos

    	
    Carlos,
    
    Could you develop a bit about this hair issue ?
    Is it a new Arg. Fed rule, or a coach decision, or what ?
    
    Surprised & interested
    
    Pierre-Yves

    The new national coach (I don't remember his name at this moment), he
    was the defender and I believe captain of the Argentina team that won
    the world cup in 1978, made the new rule.  Short hair or you don't play
    in the national team.
    
    His believe is that Argentines have gotten out of hand with respect to
    discipline, style and presentation, not only on the field but outside
    of soccer.  Newspaper and mangazines have used Maradona, Cannigia and
    (there is one more) as examples of what this coach does NOT want. 
    
    I did hear reports that Batistuta is willing to cut his hair to play in
    the national team. The coach would like to have Redondo however I have
    not heard if Redondo would cut his hair or not and the coach did say if
    he does not cut his hair he will not play.
    
    Now, the coach did say that if the Argentinian team does not do well in
    the "Copa America" this summer, then he MIGHT let some of these players
    (with long hair) play.
    
    I did read that Maradona and this new coach don't get along.  So,
    hopefully we would not see Maradona any more.
    
    Batitusta, this is one guy that really shows a lot of class and put
    his pride away.
    
    Carlos

I seem to remember that Passarella,Kempes and Co had a fair amount of hair, 
and they were still a pretty good side. Mind you, it wa all more acceptable 
back in the 70s I suppose!

grahame

Passarella was the one with the sensible haircut.

    ...but Kempes, Luque and Tarantini all won the World Cup with
    hairstyles straight out of the Woodstock festival ;-)
    
    Anyone remember that guy Ayala who played for Argentina in the '74
    World Cup? He practically had to tuck his hair into his socks...
    Good player, though.
    
    Dom
    

    
    
Last night (Midnight), Univision showed the game between

		Universidad Catolica (Chile)
			vs
		Atletico Nacional (Colombia)

Game was played in Chile.

Not an exciting game but one incredible finish.

Nacional was the better team as they controlled the mid-field and had few
chances to score.  Catolica in the other hand, as the commentators said,
played well as individuals but not as a team.  Catolica had more control of
the ball in the second half but could not put it together once they got into
the 18.

Here is the finish.

Score was 1-1.  Nacional sticking with defense as the tie was
sufficient for them to get into the second round.  Catolica in the other hand
had to win.  15 minutes to go, Catolica subs in a forward for a mid-fielder,
still could not produce anything, however they were dominating the ball.  10
minutes to go, Catolica subs in a forward for a defender.  That made it worse
for Catolica.  Nacional was producing some nice counter-attacks and Catolica
had a tough time getting thru.

2 minutes into injure time, Catolica (in Nacionals end) makes a bad pass and
ball was going out of bounds. A Colombian defender accidentaly touches the
ball; Corner Kick.  Ball is kicked, Catolica player takes the ball inside the
18, dribbles thru one player and gets fouled, Penalty (good call by the ref).

Catolica player takes the kick and Rene Higuita (yeap, same guy of the '90 WC)
blocks the shot.  However, another Catolica player takes the rebound and nails
it right at Higuita.  Whistle blows, end of game, score 1-1.

Here is the table for that group:

						GP	Pts
						--	---
	Millonarios (Colombia)			6	10*
	Atletico Nacional (Colombia)		5	8*
	Universidad Catolica (Chile)		6	7
	Universidad Chile (Chile)		5	6

* Already qualified for the 2nd round.

Nacional vs U. Chile will be played this Friday.  U. Chile needs a win/tie to
qualify. If U. Chile loses, U. Catolica qualifies.

I will try to post tables (and any scores I can get) of the other groups.

Carlos

Here are scores of Last weeks games

Nacional (Colombia) 1	U. Catolica (Chile) 1
Palmeiras (Brazil) 7	El Nacional (Ecuador) 0
Olimpia (Paraguay) 4	Trujillanos (Venezuela) 1

Nacional (Colombia) 0	U. Chile (Chile) 0
Gremio (Brazil) 2	El Nacional (Ecuador) 0
Cerro Porteno (Par) 3	Trujillanos (Venezuela) 1

==============================================================================
Here is the final table for each group. All groups have completed first round
except Group 1. Top 3 teams get into second round.

---------
GROUP 1:		Played	Pts
1. River Plate (ARG)      4	8
2. Penarol (URU)          4	5      
3. Cerro (URU)            4	4      
4. Independiente (ARG)    4	4

Games left:

	River Plate @ Cerro		April 13
	Independiente @ Penarol		April 14
	Penarol @ River Plate		April 19
	Cerro @ Independiente		April 20
---------

GROUP 2:
1. Olimpia (PAR)        6	13      
2. Cerro Porteno (PAR)  6	12      
3. Caracas (VEN)        6	6
4. Trujillanos (VEN)    6	1  (eliminated)

---------
GROUP 3:
1. Millonarios (COL)    6	10      
2.Nacional (COL)        6	9      
3.U. Chile (CHI)        6       7 *
4.U. Catolica (CHI)     6       7 *

*   U. Chile and U Catolica will have a one game playoff to be played at a
neutral site (I believe it will be this Wednesday).  It turns out that the
rules states that if 2 teams end in a tie in pts, the tiebraker will be goal
differential, EXCEPT if the two teams are from the same country. If they are
from the same country, then one game will be played at a neutral site, with
the winner advancing to the next round.

--------

GROUP 4:
1. Palmeiras (BRA)      6	13      
2. Gremio (BRA)         6	11      
3. Emelec (ECU)         6	5      
4. Nacional (ECU)       6	4      (Eliminated)

--------
GROUP 5:
1. Sporting Cristal (PER)6	12     
2. Bolivar (BOL)        6	9     
3. Alianza Lima (PER)   6	5     
4. Wilstermann (BOL)    6	5     (Eliminated)

 

    

Here is the only score that I know of last week's games:

		Penarol 1	River Plate 1

==============================================================================
Here is the FINAL table for each group:

---------
GROUP 1:		Played	Pts
1. River Plate (ARG)      6	12
2. Penarol (URU)          6	9      
3. Independiente (ARG)    6	7
3. Cerro (URU)            6	4  (eliminated)

---------

GROUP 2:
1. Olimpia (PAR)        6	13      
2. Cerro Porteno (PAR)  6	12      
3. Caracas (VEN)        6	6
4. Trujillanos (VEN)    6	1  (eliminated)

---------
GROUP 3:
1. Millonarios (COL)    6	10      
2.Nacional (COL)        6	9      
3.U. Catolica (CHI)     6       7
4.U. Chile (CHI)        6       7 * (eliminated)


--------

GROUP 4:
1. Palmeiras (BRA)      6	13      
2. Gremio (BRA)         6	11      
3. Emelec (ECU)         6	5      
4. Nacional (ECU)       6	4      (Eliminated)

--------
GROUP 5:
1. Sporting Cristal (PER)6	12     
2. Bolivar (BOL)        6	9     
3. Alianza Lima (PER)   6	5     
4. Wilstermann (BOL)    6	5     (Eliminated)


Here the matches for the second round.  2-leg game. If aggr. score is tied, a
penalty shoot-out will determine the winner.

	Velez (Argentina)	vs	Independiente (Argentina)

	River Plate (Argentina)	vs	U. Catolica (Chile)

	Penarol (Uruguay)	vs	At. Nacional (Colombia)

	Millonarios (Colombia)	vs	Alianza Lima (Peru)

	Bolivar (Bolivia)	vs	Palmeiras (Brazil)

	Sporting Cristal (Peru)	vs	Caracas (Venezuela)

I am not sure about the following matches:

	Cerro Porteno (Paraguay)vs	Gremio (Brazil)
	Olimpia (Paraguay)	vs	Emelec (Ecuador)


UNIVISION will show the following games:

	Wednesday		Bolivar (Bol) vs Palmeiras (Bra)
	Thursday		At Nacional (Col) vs Penarol (Uru)


Carlos


 

                                                

Here are the results of 2nd round of the Copa-Libertadores:
					1st leg		2nd leg
	Velez (Argentina)		  1		  2
	Independiente (Argentina)	  0		  2
			(Velez advances 3-2 agg. score)

	River Plate (Argentina)		  1		  3
	U. Catolica (Chile)		  2		  1
			(River Plate advances 4-3 agg score)

	Penarol (Uruguay)		  1		  1
	At. Nacional (Colombia)		  3		  3
			(At. Nacional advances 6-2 agg score)

	Millonarios (Colombia)		  1		  2
	Alianza Lima (Peru)		  1		  0
			(Millonarios advances 3-1 agg score)

	Bolivar (Bolivia)		  1		  0
	Palmeiras (Brazil)		  0		  3
			(Palmeiras advances 3-1 agg score)

	Sporting Cristal (Peru)		  2		  6
	Caracas (Venezuela)		  2		  2
			(Sporting Cristal adv 8-4 agg score)

	Olimpia (Paraguay)		  0		  0
	Gremio (Brazil)			  3		  2
			(Gremio advances 5-0 agg score)

	Cerro Porteno (Paraguay)	  0		  2
	Emelec (Ecuador)		  2		  0
			(Emelec advances 2-2 agg score.  Wins penalty
			 shootout 5-4)

Quaterfinals will start at the end of July.

Since SA Federation requires that no two teams from the same country can be in
the semi-finals, the matchups of the Quater-finals are:

	River Plate (Argentina) vs Velez (Argentina)

	Millonarios (Colombia) vs At. Nacional (Colombia)

	Gremio (Brazil) vs Palmeiras (Brazil)

	Emelec (Ecuador) vs Sporting Cristal (Peru)

Team named 1st will be the host for the 1st leg, except Emelec.  Since Ecuador
and Peru are in political conflict (are they still at war?), both games will
be played at neutral sites. Emelec would like to play in New York and I forgot
where Sp Cristal wants to play.  The SA federation will determine the sites
later.

Carlos

Results from Last night's and final match of the season:

Santafe-Junior                 3-1
Nacional-America               1-1
Cali-Medellin                  4-1
Union-Millos                   1-0
Envigado-Tolima                1-0
Pereira-Caldas                 2-0
Huila-Tulua                    0-0
Quindio-Cucuta                 0-0


Final Positions

			Pts
Junior                   62
America                  60
Nacional                 48
Cali                     47
Santafe                  45
Pereira                  43
Medellin                 43
Caldas                   42
Tolima                   40
Quindio                  37
Tulua                    35
Envigado                 32
Union                    31
Millos                   28
Huila                    26
Cucuta                   24


Junior and America will represent Colombia in next year's Copa Libertadores.

Today, all members of the Colombian national team will meet to start the
"Process of Revenge" in the USA Cup '95.  The name "Process of Revenge" was
given for those players that participated in the past World Cup. Only member
that will be absent is Fautino Asprilla who arrived from Italy with an injured
right leg.  Colombia will be facing Nigeria this Saturday in New York.

    Hi, 
    
     does any body knows last night results from "LA COPA AMERICA".
    
               thanks
    Cesar v.

    Note 485 has been covering la Copa.

       thanks for the info.
     cesar