Conference tmagno::antique_collectible

    
    I have come across a very good looking watch and is running well.
    On the dial it is marked with this label "peerless". 
    
    The watch looks like a small pocket watch but meant to be a wrist
    watch. It is made of 925 silver and with a procelain dial marked
    with latin numeros and dark bluish watch hands.
    
    Anyone have any idea on what that "peerless" come from ?
    
    sl.
    
    

    
     Hi,
    
     The name is vaguely familiar,but the name on the face,has little to do
    with the quality of the watch. What are the markings on the movement.
    For instance,I saw a small watch,with the brand name NOREXA,on the
    face,but the movement was labled Valjoux,which made it a high quality
    movement in a no-name case. Semdom does the name on the face really
    mean anything,there are a few which still make thier own movements,but
    most out source the movements.
    
     The watch you describe,sounds as though it may be early teens,or
    older. Wristwatches really didn't catch on until after WWI. Before then
    they were thought of as a fad,of sorts. So preserving the appearance of
    a pocket watch in a wrist watch,may have been more of a marketing
    gimick,at the turn of the century..
    
    Joe
    
    

    
    I saw that watch on a antique watch shop but must be already brought by
    someone else. I don't remember the internal label but you can tell that
    this is a watch of workmanship from its looks and machinery. it's a
    watch made in the 30's probably by some less known and small family
    business watch-maker but with high quality workmanship. 
    
    I will not mind getting a less-known watch if it is of high quality
    but reasonable price.
    
    sl.

    
     Hi,
    
     That's a good point. What do you concider be reasonably priced. Lets
    take a Breitling Navitimer,for example,they usually fetch $800 to $1000
    on the used market. I saw one recently,which was the former property
    of an Iraqi Fighter Pilot,complete with Iraqi Air Force markings,for 
    around $900. Is this a good deal?
    
    
     I heard a timepiece jobber,stuck it to old Sadam,by pulling the old
    shell game on him. Breitling Navitimer case and face,with a no-name
    movement. So now,is it worth it. Most likely if documentation can be
    supplied with the timepiece,capture paperwork and so on. It will be
    worth many times that of a standard Navitimer.
    
     Sometime in the future,I'm not sure if I care to speculate with a
    Grand for a bogus watch. Still wringing my hands over that one.
    
    Joe
    

    
    
    
    
    
    The Breitling you saw has a historic background and so its value
    should be higher than one without it.
    
    yes, it is difficult to determine what is reasonable price unless
    one have a idea of how much it will cost to buy a similar watch 
    in the market.
    
    My rule of thumb for assessing the price of a less-known but high-quality 
    watch is that it should not cost more than a certain % of a similar watch 
    made by a renown watch-maker.That certain % can only judged by experience 
    and can be anywhere between 10-50%.
    
    so you can see brand-name do carry a heavy-weight for me ! But I 
    definitely will not mind getting a less-known quality watch for a
    reasonable price. what's your opinion ?
    
    sl.  

    
     Hi,
    
     I also try to never pay more than I can get out of a watch. I see
    people paying the full $3,000+ for a brand new SS Submariner,and
    wondering what they will say when no one will allow more than $1,800
    on trade-in,when thier tastes change,to something different. A
    previously owned,Rolex reconditioned Submariner,cannot be distinguished
    from a brand new one and still will carry a one year unlimited
    warranty. The same as new Sub will now be between $2,000 and $2,500,
    depending on how upscale the Jewelers store is. Wear it for a couple of
    years and trade it in,only looseing between $200 to $700 instead of
    $1,000+,minimizing the lose.
     For me I would look around for an 85% to 95% SS Sub,in the $1200 to 
    $1800 range,which I see all the time. Send it to Rolex New York or
    Dallas,along with the $300,then make a couple of bucks on the other
    end of the deal.
     I've heard good things about Rolex New York,and Bad things about thier
    Dallas facility.
    
     Joe
    

I still have the watch I received for my graduation back in 1970.

It's a Waltham Chronograph/stop watch. It has a stainless
steel case and a blue face. The second/minute dials in the face
are machined out so they appear silver.

It's a hefty watch (thick) but still runs great. I take it out of
the drawer every now and then to give it a workout.

I don't have it with me today, but something that always
intrigued me about the watch was under the 6 on the watch face
is written (in very tiny letters) is "In Cabloc". Any idea
what this means.

BTW, there are no numbers in the face. The designations are marked
by small silver rectangles. It also has illuminated spots along all
the appropriate points.

Any idea of the value?

Chip

    
     Hey Chip,
    
     An INCABLOC is a shock absorbing device which permits the endstone of
    the balance to "give" when the watch is subjected to an impact or a
    jolt.
     It is shaped kinda like a hour-glass shaped wishbone,and can be seen
    on the bottom side of the movement if you have a watch with the crystal
    back. The Balance Staff, holds the Balance Wheel,this is the wheel
    which does all that whiring back and forth. The Cap Jewel is on the
    ends of the Balance Staff,Cap Jewel is another name for the endstone.
    There are other mechanisms,which do the same thing,INCABLOCs are usually
    on the upper scale movements,Valjoux uses this method of shock
    resistance as well.
     It sounds like a neat timepiece,Chip.
    
     Joe                                                        

Thanks for the information! It's funny that I've wondered 
about that term ever since I received the watch, but never
really pursued it.

Chip

    
    You just can't believe how the price of the original Rolex Explorer I 
    is jumping so fast every year.
    
    Among the other Rolex sporty watches (which includes the submariner,
    the Explorer II, the Sea-Dweller and the GMT-master I and II) the
    original Explorer I has its value appraised the highest since it
    was first released. Truly magnificent !
    
    The original Explorer I was last manufactured in 1988 and Explorer I
    made in that year and those made in the 80's are the most pricy of
    them. Those in the 70's are the least expensive for some particular
    reason. Those in the 50's and 60's can fetch higher price.
    
    The reborned Explorer I was first manufactured in 1991 but their 
    value are comparatively speaking much less valued by collectors.
    
    what is the situation in US now ?
    
    sl. 

    
     Hi,
    
     Rolex Sport watches are now at what many industry insiders consider,
    an all time high,with the 1970'ish so call James Bond
    Submariner,leading the pack. It is distinctive in the "EGG_SHELL"
    coloured luminous dial markings.
    
     Joe
    

    
    I see so there is a high demand for the 70's Submariner in US
    and James Bond-Sean Connery did make this watch famous), but in 
    HongKong (one of the major cities which consume Rolex), it is the 
    80's Explorer I which is the most sought after.
    
    does anyone recall when did Rolex start not making plastic 
    front cover and moving onto using sapphire crystal or glass  
    for its sport watches ? I saw a 80's Explorer I recently
    but it was still using plastic as watch front cover.
    
    sl. 
     

    
     Hi,
    
     I don't have any books with me,but the date 1985-1988 comes to mind as
    the years they "started" to use the Sapphire crystal,as opposed to
    plexiglass. I prefer plexiglass as when it is scratched,which will
    eventually happen,it may be polished quite easily, The sapphire is hard
    and not easily scratched,but when it is,the whole thing must be
    replaced,with a new sapphire crystal,and is quite costly.
     I have marveled at the voracious and vociferous,appetite folks from
    Hong Kong and Singapore,have for Rolex watches. I think they would
    rather starve with a Rolex,than eat wearing a Timex. The
    Oyster-Perpetual in my collection,came from Singapore,but the dealer
    said he had bought it from someone in The States,for resale in
    Singapore. I understand the Rolex Service Center in Singapore must be
    watched with care,as they have mis-identified some mixed variation
    models in the past. They might call a 5500 with an Oyster dial a 1002.
    
     Joe
    

    
    Yes, the Explorer I saw was from 1984 just before the Sapphire crystal 
    was introduced and so is having a plastic surface. But I wonder why it
    is not with plexiglass. Other than that, it is in very good condition.
    
    The seller is fetching US$3800 for it, should I consider it ? I would
    like to replace plastic surface with Sapphire crystal, would Rolex
    dealer replace it for me and for how much roughly ?
    
    sl.

    
     Hi,
    
     No,Rolex says there is no way to adapt the Sapphire to an earlier
    model. I understand there was an engineering change to the case and the
    bezel to accomodate the thicker sapphire. 
    
     The price of near $4,000 is excessive for an Explorer I,even if it had
    both boxs,and was in mint/unworn condition. Are you located in the Far
    East? If so perhaps I could recommend a merchant with better prices,in
    your area. One fellow I converse with on occasion,is in the highlands
    of Thailand,and literally has no access to any type of vendor,but still
    gets catalogs,brought in for mailorder,of the watches he wants.
    
    Joe
    

    
    I am located in HongKong, will you recommend some dealers there ?
    
    thanks for your tips but I definitely would like to get a 1988
    Explorer I but not from that dealer I saw though.
    
    sl.

    
     Hi,
    
     You bet. Try a guy by the name of Gary Shin at Moonphase Timepieces.
    Rm 801, Dundas Square, 43h Dundas St, Mongkok, Kowloon.
    Tel : (852) 90948963
    Fax : (852) 25395863
    E-mail : [email protected]
    
     They are supposed to have 200 Rolex in stock. I have never had
    business dealings with them,but thier prices appear to be inline with
    that I am familiar with. As always,Let The Buyer Beware,a little
    caution goes a long way.
    
     Good Luck in your quest.
    
     Joe
    

    
    thanks Joe, I will check it out.
    
    By the way, what is your expected price for a 1985-1988 Explorer I ?
    
    sl.

    
     Hi,
    
     They show an Explorer II for around US$2100,and a GMT Master for
    US$1650. If thier priceing is linear,this would price an Explorer I
    around the US$2600-US$3100 range. This is just a guess,and does not
    factor HK$ exchange rate,or haggle factor. I hate paying asking price
    for anything.
    
     Joe
                

    
    I ran across some old watches from the 1910-1920 period. These
    watches have porcelain dials and open cover bottoms. They are
    all hand-winding, of course and they are weared with narrow 
    watch-strips.
    
    These watches were not manufactured by well-known watch-makers 
    but they were swiss-made. 
    
    do you have any idea of their price-range ? or tips on assessing
    these watches ?
    
    They are very good-looking watches though.
    
    sl.
    
    
    
     

    
     Hi,
    
     These watches fall into the area,of unknown maker,but the movement
    may be of a well known and respected manufacturer. The "Ebauches",as
    they are called,are manufactured,by an affiliation of 17 firms,each of
    these Swiss companies,have a distinct mark,they place on movements,they
    originate,in thier factories. Like Valjoux,is a very pronounced capital
    "R" inside the script box. These marks will appear on the base plate
    and very often must be viewed with a "Loupe",or some other magnification
    device.
     I never buy a watch without viewing the movement,and try to stay at
    17J or better yet 21J or better. My Oyster-Perpetual is a 25J
    movement,for instance. My Seiko Auto/Chrono,for daily wear,is a 17J
    movement.
    
    Joe
    

    
    The unknown maker is "DOXA", the movement is in excellent condition but
    the body is rusty as it is made of "iron" which is rare.
    Joe, have you heard of this maker ?
    
    Another watch I would like to assess its price is Omega de Ville,
    made in the 1960's, and it's the renown rectangular Omega.
    
    The 1967 model is particularly what I am interested, but I would
    also like to find out the availability and price range of different
    models made in different years.
    
    steve                          
    
    
    
     
    
    
    
    
    

    
     Hi,
    
     Doxa is a well respected name in time pieces,and may be treated with
    the same respect as an Omega or Hamilton. Omega DeVilles are found in
    solid gold,Stainless Steel,and Gold Fill. The average price I see for 
    a excellent condition DeVille is about the same for the Auto Seamaster
    which is nearly identical,as a matter of fact I recently sold an Omega
    Seamaster DeVille to Paul at Finertimes in Florida,for $30 more than I
    paid for it. I bought it at a local Flea Market for $99. It was an auto
    round,one piece case,14KGF,and was in perfect condition,with the white
    linen dial,and gold bar type markers. A really nice looking watch,with
    a Crocodile band,and a gold filled buckle.
    
     Joe
    

    
     Hi,
    
     I forgot to mention the prefered Omega Wristwatch. It is a
    Constellation,known to insiders as the "Connie". The "observatory"
    model is especially sought after,there is a unique logo on the back
    of the watch,and it is a Certified Chonometer,which will be stated
    in the dial. A superior watch in everyway,the Constellation,in the
    "Pan" dial,with the observatory logo,will hold it's value for a long
    time,to come,and holds similar status,to a Tudor,which is made by
    Rolex.
    
    Joe
    

    
    you bought Omega watch DeVille at $99. can it be that cheap ?
    
    Here in HK, I saw one store fetches above US$250.
    
    Is it under sold in your area or over priced here ?
    
    steve
    
    
    
    
    

    
     Hi,
    
     I only buy a watch I can sell for more than I paid,and try to be
    reserved and wait for the right deal. For every watch I buy,I pass on
    50,which are overpriced,in poor condition,or in some other way
    unsatisfactory. I usually pay %50 or less of market,or I don't buy it.
    That is why I do not look for a specific watch,I look for the best
    deal. Eventually,you will have enough "trade goods" so you can trade up
    to the watch you may want.
    
     For instance I'll buy whatever is the best price,stock pile a few nice
    pieces I may not be very excited about,but are a good buy and
    desireable to someone else. After a couple of mouths of this stock
    piling,I'll start looking for the watch I am interested in,then
    approach the owner with a deal.
    
     "I'll trade you two DeVilles,and two Seamasters,with $200 for your Rolex
    Oyster-Perpetual." The market value of the four watches I have offered
    would be around $800 to $900 dollars,but the dealer is looking at them
    as $600 to $700 as he has to make something on them too. So he looks at
    my offer as $800 to $900,and the merchandise has about another
    $200,when he sells them. So he could realise $1100 on the deal. If he
    has his Rolex marked for $950,he is coming out with more than he
    originally wanted. He doesn't know I only have about $400 into the
    watches,so It will be as though I paid $600 for the Rolex. I can then
    trade the Rolex and some cash for a Breitling Navitimer,or something.
    You can see the progression,of haveing less into something,than market
    value,then useing that value in your favor. Even though it may not be
    your dream watch,some of them are excellent tradeing material.
    
     I'll sign off now,before I let some more of my tactics out of the bag.
    
     Joe
     

    
    I am fond of square-shape watches, they are even rarer than rectangular
    watches.
    
    what are some of the best square watch to collect ?
    
    steve

    
     Hi Steve,
    
     Most of the larger and older,watch makers had a watch case of that
    shape. Hamilton and Omega come to mind as haveing many different 
    rectangular cases. I would stick with the solid gold with the high
    jeweled movements,they will never go down in value,I suppose.
     Collectors love'm.
    
     Joe
    

    Any recommendations where I could get an honest (and reasonable)
    appraisal for a couple of bags of old watches/jewelry my mother wants
    to rid herself of? I'm sure most of it is junque but one never knows..
    
    Located in Worcester Ma.
    
    Thanks, Ed

    
     If there is some good stuff,and some so-so stuff. Take it to any large
    jewelry store in your area,which has an Estate Appraiser Service. These
    folks usually have a regular circuit the run for several different
    jewelers. So you may have to leave the stuff with them,and the
    appraiser can get to your articles,when possible. There is a charge for
    this,so enquire up front. You may wish to ask them for two
    values,replacement value,for insurance purposes,and real market value.
    It could be worth the money to have it done,this way,but only if your
    sure there is something of sufficient value to offset the expense.
    
     Joe
    

    
    what's the US market value now for a 70's/80's Rolex Explorer I ?
    
    As you know, the 90's Rolex Explorer I has a face lift which I
    do not like. I prefer the older model "1016", the more elegent 
    3-6-9 I call it.
    
    steve