Conference thebay::joyoflex

    Undoubtedly the best you could hope to have is the OED.  It has 
    just been published in full on CD-ROM.  I have read two conflicting
    PC magazines, one saying �49.00, the other saying �495.00.
    
    Given that the full OED will cost many hundreds of pounds/dollars
    (I think perhaps thousands), then I suspect that the �495 price is
    correct.
    
    Both articles agreed that the electronic dictionary and the access 
    software were excellent and one of the reports indicated that wildcard
    operations such as you wish to perform were possible (e.g. how
    many words end in "iarity"  :-)
    
    I am going to London tomorrow to check prices of some CD-ROM
    drives, so will try and check out the OED availability as well.
    
    /Chris.
    

    Thanks for your help Chris.  I could also use some guidance on what
    kind of hardware I would need in order to use a CD-ROM setup.  Sad to
    say although I work for a computer company I'm not very knowledgeable
    about hardware/software.  I know that DEC is selling various machines
    to employees at good prices - my preference would be the low end on
    the purchase scale.  My first choice would be to simply use my terminal
    to connect to some data/information service like Prodigy or Compuserve
    if there were one which offered access to a dictionary of several
    hundred thousand words.
    
    Norm

    
    
    Well I went to London byut didn't get very far with my CD-ROM searches.
    
    Anyway, I confirmed that the OED is �495.00  (say around $1000.00)
    and it comes with all the software you need to read/interrogate it
    under Windows 3.1  You need an industry-standard CD-ROM reader and
    probably a PC interface card (add another �400.00).  So for less than
    �1000.00, you have the works as well as the rights to periodic OED
    updates.
    
    The OUP, publishers of the OED have just begun the preparation of the
    3rd edition of the OED (Due in 2005!) - imagine how many updates you
    would need in 13 years!!
    
    By the way, if all you want is a spelling dictionary - then use the
    Houghton-Miffin databases (available with DECwrite etc.)  these are
    pretty comprehensive but probaly don't match the OED's 500,000
    headwords.  You can also use the spell checkers within normal WPS-PLUS
    ALL-IN-1 services - try it it is quite fast.
    
    Whilst looking for the electronic OED, I found out that there are some
    other "works" available in the OUP "Oxford Electronic Texts Library
    for English Literature" ;
    
    	- The Complete Works of Jane Austen		�60
    
    	- The Riverside Chaucer				�75
    
    	- The Poetical Works of Samuel Coleridge	�60
    
    	-    "                  William Wordsworth	�60
    
    
    And from Wells and Taylor ;
    
    	- Shakespeare : The Complete Works		�90
    
    None of the above (excepting the OED) has any search or analysis
    capability.  In order to perform research, etc. look for additional
    software such as Micro-OCP (Oxford) which will cost another �175
    and can perform a series of searches, quotation references, etc.
    
    Happy reference reading!

I've already created the feature you want.  I use it quite often to check
spellings.  For example:

$ lookup perspi*
perspicacious
perspicaciously
perspicaciousness
perspicacity
perspicuity
perspicuous
perspicuously
perspicuousness
perspiration
perspiratory
perspire
perspired
perspires
perspiring
perspiry
$ lookup p*phobia
photophobia
$ lookup a*phobia
acrophobia
agoraphobia
algophobia
anglophobia
$

Please try installing

	hannah::igloo$:[osman.lookup]lookup010.a.

when our system comes back...

Thanks.

/Eric

    Can we use to find six-syllable words?

         (-: Now you just stay away from 788.*, you cheater you!!  :-)
    

Eric,

I like the idea - unfortunately your saveset is bad.  I copied it twice 
just to check and got the same results each time ;

Could you please re-package?
Chris.

P.S.	Is this the first time a VMSINSTAL log has been posted in
	JOYOFLEX? :-)


        Beginning installation of LOOKUP V1.0 at 14:36

%VMSINSTAL-I-RESTORE, Restoring product save set A ...
%BACKUP-E-VBNMISSING, VANINE$DKB0:[SYS0.SYSUPD.LOOKUP010]LOOKUP.DICTIONARY;2 has
 missing blocks 460 through 2476
%VMSINSTAL-E-NOSAVESET, Save set  A  cannot be restored.

Enter the products to be processed from the next distribution volume set.
* Products:  Exit

o.k.   Please try hannah::igloo$:[osman.lookup]lookup010.a again.
I have no idea what went wrong the first time.

Thanks.

/Eric

The saveset was not corrupt but the setup LOOKUP$STARTUP.COM file didn't seem
to work.  It defines a logical, lookup$dictionary that the executable doesn't
recognize.  LOOKUP.EXE is expecting WORDS$.

I modified the LOOKUP_COMMANDS.CLD to include a pointer to the image in my
directory.  Works fine.

	mP

Thanks, this is fixed in the latest kit.

/Eric

I installed this as a system product.  I have one note, to work
the user must have write access to the dictionary.  Since by default
this is in SYS$LIBRARY, this is not a good thing (and INSPECT doesn't
like it either) and actually unneccessary.

Larry

    Eric,
    
    What can I say ...
    
    $ LOOKUP *iarity
    
    familiarity
    peculiarity
    unfamiliarity
                    [End of file lookup$dictionary:lookup.dictionary]
    $
    
    
    When will we have a *European English* version ?
    
    /Chris :-)
    
    
    Love the tool!

I've never heard of subsidiarity

No, you don't need write-access to the dictionary.  Why do you say you
do need it ?

    >I've never heard of subsidiarity
    
    Note 984.*

    I need it because I get an error when I don't have write access
    
    Larry
    
Failed to open words$:lookup.dictionary
%SYSTEM-W-ABORT, abort
    

All you gave me is:

    
Failed to open words$:lookup.dictionary
%SYSTEM-W-ABORT, abort
    



There's nothing in that text that says or even implies that you need "write"
access !  I suspect you merely need to define logical name words$ to point
at whatever disk and directory you have lookup.dictionary in.


Actually, in latest kit, the logical name is changed from words$ to
lookup$dictionary, so I think this error message goes away.  Try recopying
and reinstalling the kit.

Thanks.

/Eric

> lookup$dictionary, so I think this error message goes away.  Try recopying
    ---------------
    	Since, in this notes file we are *supposed* to be pedantic, I
    assume you have registered the "lookup" prefix with SQM? Otherwise the
    spelling should be "lookup_dictionary".   ;-)

          <<< THEBAY::DISK$VMSUSER3:[NOTES$LIBRARY]JOYOFLEX.NOTE;2 >>>
                              -< The Joy of Lex >-
================================================================================
Note 1005.17             Dictionary search by computer?                 17 of 18
HANNAH::OSMAN "see HANNAH::IGLOO$:[OSMAN]ERIC.VT240"  22 lines  29-OCT-1992 12:45
                 -< why do you say you need "write" access ? >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All you gave me is:

    
Failed to open words$:lookup.dictionary
%SYSTEM-W-ABORT, abort
    



There's nothing in that text that says or even implies that you need "write"
access !  I suspect you merely need to define logical name words$ to point
at whatever disk and directory you have lookup.dictionary in.


Actually, in latest kit, the logical name is changed from words$ to
lookup$dictionary, so I think this error message goes away.  Try recopying
and reinstalling the kit.

Thanks.

/Eric

    Barnes and Noble is selling the new Random House Unabridged Dictionary
    in a package consisting of the hard-copy dictionary plus a CD-ROM
    version of the dictionary for $79 the pair.  List price is $100 for
    each component.  I got mine last night.  
    
    Here are the features I remember:
        
        You can search by wildcards (both * and %). 
    	
        You can browse (type in "foo" and get a long list of words
        that start with "foo".  
        
        You can click on any word in a definition and get the definition
        of that word.  
        
        You can search all definitions for a certain word.  
        
        You can cut and paste to other applications.  
        
        You can turn etymology and pronunciation-guide on or off.  
        
        Runs on Mac, DOS and Windows.  
    
    There are 315,000 words in the dictionary, both online and hard-copy. 
    There are also 8,000 illustrations in the hard-copy version.
    
    It's not the OED, but I am thrilled nonetheless.  One thing I like is
    that the editors agree with me on lots of vexed points about language,
    although I caught a few errors or oversights.
    

    ooooooh
    
    :-)
    
    ed

    Re .20
    
    >$79 the pair.  List price is $100 for each component.
    
    Shouldn't that be "$100 the component"?

	See what I mean?  $79 THE pair.  What a deal. Where do I pay?

	Seriously Tom, please could you provide me a Stateside
	pointer to mailorder company who would take a VISA card
	order from me.  Even with shipping costs and customs
	duty - this represents a real bargain here in France.

Thanks,
Chris.

    I will get the number later today.
    
    Owning this dictionary is a peak experience for me.  I think of all
    the years I've spent leafing through dictionaries and all the years
    I've spent trying to figure out how to use computers to distribute
    information and all the time I've spent reading and writing and then I
    think what I can get out of this dictionary. Some pretty important 
    threads in my life have come together here.
    
    Entries on common words are particularly enticing.  I'll check tonight
    but I'll bet they have two dozen definitions for "the" including one
    that captures the meaning we've been talking about here recently.

A feature I'd like to see is for the dictionary to list homophones or near 
homophones in the event that there is no listing, to eliminate the 
conversation that I've had both as a kid and a parent:

	kid:	Dad, how do you spell "pneumonia"?

	dad:	Why don't you look it up in the dictionary?

	kid:	HOW CAN I LOOK IT UP IN THE DICTIONARY IF I DON'T KNOW
		HOW TO SPELL IT?!?!

Clay

    There is such a dictionary, but it ain't no unabridged.  Check the
    reference shelves at a couple of bookstores and you should find it.
    
    The thing about online information is that you don't see it all, so you
    could in fact have lots of misspellings in the database that never
    printed, but simply pointed to possible candidates.  
    
    This dictionary does have the browse and wildcard features which would
    aid materially in any search.
    
    It also has an anagram feature, strangely, but it will only give you
    perfect anagrams, such as UNITED for UNTIED.  It won't give you all the
    words you can spell using the letters of a word, which might be better.
    

        Heck we don' need no steenkeeng anagram algo, we gots Binder!
        

    Here's the phone number for credit card customers, 9-9 eastern time
    weekdays, 9-5 eastern time Saturdays:
    
    	201-767-7079
    
    It's $79.95 for the hardcopy and cd-rom.
    
    Turns out there were only 12 definitions for "the" as an article. 
    Number 12 was "used distributively, as in for each, of each", but
    that's a paraphrase, not the exact definition.  
    
    Two more definitions for "the" as an adverb.
    

    Barnes and Noble also sells a not-really-a-Webster's Unabridged for 
    $20 that includes a bad speller's dictionary.

    Re .28
    
    >It's $79.95 for the hardcopy and cd-rom.
    
    Not again!  How'd that "for" get in there?  It should be just:
    
     It's $79.95 the hardcopy and cd-rom.
    
    Sheesh!

    BZZZZT.  Thankew for playing, but that's an incorrect usage of "the."
    
    "It's $79.95* the Delivery Medium." should just about do it.
    
    * figure quoted is unfortunately in Dollars; I know there are enough
      nitpickers around here (:-)) to find fault with any putative
      translation of Dollars into Guinea-equivalents, so I will just
      content myself with saying I shoulda.  But I am adamANT about the
      need for "the" to refer to an abstract collective.  Hrmph.  
      Diamond's getting soft.
      
    

    	The woman that I mentioned refers to her husband as "Adam Ant", but
    still has none of the cartoons to go with it. And I am no good at
    drawing.

	
>>	"It's $79.95* the Delivery Medium." should just about do it.
    
	$79.75 the Delivery Media would have been better  :-)


/Chris - (normally not a nit picker, but given that you were apparently
expecting such treatment, and then, only half-heartedly indemnifying 
yourself against it, ye shall reap what ye sow).

    No! No! No!
    
    
    It's $79.95 the *pair*!
    

 
	Tom, why are you repeating yourself? :-)  see .20


	Had a lot of trouble at the mail order service because
	they were not aware of this special deal.  Eventually with
	your description, and repeated insistence that it wasn't
	2 separate items, but an entry that cost $79.95 THE item, 
	they found it as ;
	
	D42M catalogue, Item Number : 1955343

	After that; normal American love-you-to-death, professional
	telephone sales.  Wish we could get DECdirect to answer the
	phone like that.

/Chris.

$90.45 incl. of shipping to France. (Dave - wanna help me network serve
this in VBO?)
	

    I'm delighted you got it, Chris, despite my inadequate documentation.
    
    I *was* repeating myself because of apparent confusion.  It would have
    been better to give you the catalogue and item numbers.  I admire your
    persistence (and love-you-to-death American telephone sales).
    

    And, going from the sublime to the sublime, I just inherited a copy of
    Noah Webster's second edition (1847 printing) of An American
    Dictionary.  On the flyleaf, in pencil, appear the names of my
    grandfather and great-grandfather, both gone before my time.  So now it
    says,
    
    	W. E. Parmenter Sr.
    	Cambridge, Mass.  1853
    
    	W. E. Parmenter Jr.
    	Orange Park, Fla.  1885
    
    	W. T. Parmenter
    	Newton, Mass.  1994
    

    G'day,
    
     It'll be interesting to see that....
    
    on the casing of a CD.....
    in 100 years....
    derek

    I think it's a cool idea; a family dictionary, a la the family Bible...
    [It would be interesting to know if the inability to remember the
    spelling of certain words is an inherited trait - I know there are some
    I have to look up again and again. Who was it who suggested putting
    tick marks next to a word every time you looked it up? "I'm sorry about
    that, Professor, but my family has never been able to spell
    'perspicacious'"...]
    
    -b

    I put tick marks in my "40,000 words" book every time I look up a
    spelling.  
    
    	misspell	9
    	occasion	9
    	liaison		7
    	
    I wonder when I needed to use the word "paregoric" and couldn't spell
    it.
    

re -1 - "liaison" gets me every time.  Even when I spell it correctly, I am
so uncertain that I reach for the dictionary or immediately invoke the 
spelling-checker.

What is it about such words that they defy reliable learning?   Something like 
a deep seated negative experience on first contact with the word in childhood?
I can remember being fairly disappointed with getting this word wrong in
a spelling bee (about 9 years old). 

    	My word hate is "phthysis". It occurred in the standard reading
    test I had to take at 9 and 10 years old, and I could never remember
    its spelling to look it up in the dictionary in time to get it right at
    the next test. At the time my mum was doing a thesis...

    Dave
    
    	As my NSOED is 25 kms away, what's it mean?
    
    Nick

    	Maybe you would like to put an entry in the "guess the meaning"
    note? Actually, after all these years I am still getting it wrong from
    memory, which ties in with the earlier notes. It should be "phthisis".
    
    Dave, who sits next to a technical writer with a dictionary :-)

    I have no time at the moment but I wanted to confess that I have a long
    term problem with commitment.  Note that I didn't say I have a problem
    with long term commitment...  it's just that I'm always asking my wife
    (30 years married, next July!) how to spell the dang word!
    
    Am I *ambivalent,* Doctor???  :-)
    

    Well "le facteur" arrived today in a truck.  He left me a huge
    plastic mail sack tied up with string.  I had completely forgotten
    that I had ordered the RHUD from the States and in any case a
    polypropylene sack posted in Belgium did not jolt my memory.
    
    Inside, a very large RHUD - nice quality despite the American spelling
    (at least it lists common British colloquialisms).
    
    The CD-ROM version of the dictionary seems to have been added to the
    pack as an afterthought, but nonetheless, the software installed
    just like a regular Windows application - within 1 minute I had the
    whole thing on line.  VERY NICE!  Within 5 minutes I had networked
    the dictionary to the mVAX server in the wine cellar and my 11-year old now
    has the client portion on his bedroom 386 as well as the dictionary on his
    bookshelf.  I access the cave serveur from my 486 in the study.
    
    Re Tom's request in .36
>>              -< Now, to get at it from inside Word for Windows >-
    This worked for me straight out of the box.  Just run up the
    dictionary, iconise, run WfW, select word(s) you want to perform
    spelling/meaning check on and type the RHUD TSR sequence (default is
    CTRL/SHIFT D).  Up pops the dictionary with full entry allowing
    replacement of mis-spelling, replacement with alternative words,
    full cut and paste of any part of the dictionary text - WONDERFUL.
    
    My 6-year old is now performing exhaustive Anagram generations for
    everyone of his French classsmates.  Somehow he finds this very funny.  
    Guess we'll have to look for something similar in French.

re: .39

I have seven tick marks in my Inspect manual where it shows how to
set the ACL on ACCOUNTNG.DAT!  Now I realize that I should have dated
each tick mark.

Chuck Rolke (Luck Choker)

p.s. I got a post card from Dave Barry yesterday. I sent him my anagram
generator program as he seems to like that sort of thing.  I'll smile
the day he signs something "Ray Adverb". -C

Marginal note: recommendation to read the SRC technical reports on Project
Hector, in which Digital researchers worked with Oxford lexicographers.
Good reading for the lexically unchallenged.

___Pete