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Conference thebay::joyoflex

Title:The Joy of Lex
Notice:A Notes File even your grammar could love
Moderator:THEBAY::SYSTEM
Created:Fri Feb 28 1986
Last Modified:Mon Jun 02 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1192
Total number of notes:42769

881.0. "Sea Chantey (Shanty, Chanty)" by PSYLO::WILSON (I have no personal name.) Thu Apr 11 1991 22:35

    Does a "sea chantey" (or chanty or shanty) need by bawdy? 
    
    Does anyone have some examples of just what one of these _is_? I've
    heard of them, but I've never heard one. 
    
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
881.1clean as teh purest windAUSSIE::WHORLOWI brew the best koala_tea productsFri Apr 12 1991 03:0819
    G'day,
    
     No way Hosea... a true sea shanty is never bawdy... leastways the ones
    that are generally known are not... that's not to say there are no bawdy
    naval ditties ;-)
    
    
    Some examples...
    
    Blow the man down
    Bound for Botany Bay
    What shall we do with a drunken sailor? (Authorised version)
    Haul Away
    Keel Haul
    
    
    Can't for the life of me remember the words tho... sign of age *-(
    
    derek
881.2What they areSMURF::CALIPH::binderSimplicitas gratia simplicitatisFri Apr 12 1991 16:056
Sea chanteys were developed by sailors as a way to keep themselves
pulling together when hauling in anchor cables, sheets, and other lines
on sailing ships.  They are invariably slow and with a strong regular
beat - any fast sea songs and dances were for entertainment, not for work.

-d
881.3Some wereMARVIN::KNOWLESDomimina nustio illumeaMon Apr 15 1991 15:5030
    There were two sorts; I think they were called `long-haul' and `short
    haul' shanties - depending on whether the hauling job called for
    long-spaced efforts of long duration (Blow the Man Down) or
    shorter-spaced efforts of shorter duration (Bring 'em down - quoted 
    later). The `ch-' spelling was probably encouraged by a supposed
    connection with the French `chanter'; any such connection may
    well be the product of academic minds rather than working men.
        
    And of course some of them were bawdy.  They were sung by healthy
    males of limited learning (they couldn't curl up with a good book), 
    working hard and long at a task whose only recompense was the thought
    of what they might do when they got ashore:
    
    ... now Call-y-o girls I do admire 		[Callao, round the Horn]
    /Bring 'em down/
    They set your rigging all afire
    /Bring 'em down/
    ...
    When I get back to Liverpool
    /Bring 'em down/
    I'll spend me pay like a bloody fool
    /Bring 'em down/
    etc.
    
    Listen to recordings by The Young Tradition if you want examples of
    how bawdy the true, old, working shanties could be. They weren't all
    that way, and the less bawdy ones may well have been favoured by
    the 19th-century `musicologists' who committed them to print.
    
    b
881.4WELWIT::MANNIONBy his own hand shall ye know him!Wed Dec 11 1991 09:2266
    (I seem to have done nothing but disagree with people since starting to
    re-read this conference after a long absence [My beard is now as long
    and grey as Nick Hill's], but here we go again:)
    
    Contrary to what Bob says about there being two kinds of shanty, there
    were many kinds and also only one kind. People collecting and
    anthologising shanties tend to put them into categories for different
    kinds of work. There were, according to these people, halyard shanties
    (long haul or short haul as Bob says), capstan shanties, windlass
    shanties, pump shanties, bunt shanties. But the categorisers were
    generally folksong collectors, or ships' officers, or enthusiastic
    gentlefolk. Writing in his excellent, but poorly written, anthology
    Shanties of the Seven Seas, Stan Hugill - who actually worked as a
    shantyman in the early years of this century - says that virtually any
    shanty would be used for any job if it came into the shantyman's head
    as he worked. 
    
    There were exceptions - 
    	Paddy Doyle was used as a bunt shanty, which was when the men
    standing on the footropes hanging under yardarms would pull the furled
    sail up onto the yardarm
    	Goodbye Fare You Well was used as a capstan shanty at the start of
    the voyage home. Ben Bright, an old seaman from Edmonton in London,
    describes how, when leaving Santiago on one trip, ship after ship in
    the harbour took up the song as the ship going home was pulled to its
    anchor
    	Leave Her Journey was used at the pumps when the voyage home was
    finished. Detrimental references within the song to the conditions on
    the ship are said to have made the singing of it at any other time
    tantamount to mutiny.
    
    The songs were sung at speeds determined by the work - so they'd
    probably start out at one speed when the gang was fresh, and slow down
    as they got tired. Some were generally sung very quickly - the Billy
    Riley group, or the Jamboree group; the excellent shanty Tom's Gone to
    Hilo was usually sung so slowly that the ship's officers disapproved of
    its use for hauling jobs as they took too long to complete.
    
    As to whether the songs were bawdy or not - that too depended on
    circumstances. if the ship was carrying passengers the shanties sung
    would not be bawdy. If it was a cargo ship some of them would be. Some
    were inevitably bawdy, such as the infamous Hog-eye man, others would
    get floating filler verses inserted to make the song fit the job, and
    these might well be bawdy, but once again they weren't always so.
    
    In one of her collections Joanna Colcord says that the songs were
    earthy and rude, but of a kind that would be considered obscene. That,
    I suppose, depends on how you interpret lines such as "A long-tailed
    blackman push it up behind." Perhaps Ms Colcord would be surprised by
    what the sailors meant.
    
    Hugill's book is the best collection of texts (and music) I know of. It
    is poorly written, though. A.L.Lloyd's book Folk song In England
    contains an excellent chapter on the shanties, written in his superbly
    eloquent style.
    
    The best recordings of shanties I have heard are these;
    	Haul On The Bowline, Ewan MacColl and A.L.Lloyd
    	Off to Sea Once More, Ewan MacColl and A.L.Lloyd
    	Blow Boys Blow, Ewan macColl and A.L.Lloyd
    	
    and two collections by a group called The Critics, whose titles I
    forget - and yes, Ewan MacColl was in The Critics.
    
    Phillip
    	
881.5MARVIN::KNOWLESCaveat vendorMon Dec 16 1991 03:503
    Touch�. Liner notes are no substitute for education.
    
    b
881.6[T]ouch[�]WELWIT::MANNIONBy his own hand shall ye know him!Mon Dec 16 1991 08:264
    I think that shanties had fallen into desuetude by the time ocean
    liners came into being.
    
    P.