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Conference thebay::joyoflex

Title:	The Joy of Lex
Notice:	A Notes File even your grammar could love
Moderator:	THEBAY::SYSTEM

Created:	Fri Feb 28 1986
Last Modified:	Mon Jun 02 1997
Last Successful Update:	Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:	1192
Total number of notes:	42769

591.0. "Del Monte plays catch-up" by CLOSET::T_PARMENTER (Tongue in cheek, fist in air!) Fri Dec 02 1988 14:38

    Del Monte has changed the spelling of its tomato sauce product from
    "catsup" to "ketchup" on the grounds that "people prefer it that
    way", according to the Wall Street Journal.  
    
    My New Collegiate gives "catsup" as the proper spelling and "ketchup"
    as the variant and says the word is Malay, a kind of fish sauce, 
    transliterated as "kechap".  
                            
    The deplorable American Heritage gives "ketchup" as the preferred
    form and says the derivation is from a Chinese sauce,  transliterated
    as "ketsiap".           
    
    The latter derivation would seem to account for the stranger spelling,
    now rejected by Del Monte.  Both dictionaries show some people
    pronouncing the "s" when spelled "catsup".  AH says that's preferred;
    W9NCD says its not.  Neither shows the "s" pronunciation under the
    "ketchup" spelling.

T.R	Title	User	Personal Name	Date	Lines
591.1	What's up ??	CHEFS::LAWSONM	putting Jesus back into Christmas	`Fri Dec 02 1988 14:47`	14
	The Uk as far as I know [which might not say a lot8-)] has always called it Ketchup ? Chambers 20th C doesn't mention Fish at all, just says a sauce made from Tomatoes, mushrooms etc The news therefore doesn't suprise me at all, and it nice to know that English and American have re-joined even in this small way 8-) aa Mark
591.2		COOKIE::DEVINE	Bob Devine, CXN	`Fri Dec 02 1988 19:53`	7
	If you are a reader of food labels you will find that the US Dept. of Agriculture has formal rules for what constitutes 'ketchup'. One of the principle ingrediants is sugar. So if your brand of ketchup contains, say, aspartame instead, you must call it `imitation ketchup'! Ahh, the USA -- land of two sauces: ketchup and gravy.... ;-)
591.3	don't forget French's so-called Mustard	DOODAH::RANDALL	Bonnie Randall Schutzman	`Mon Dec 05 1988 14:41`	1

591.4	Not ``cat-sup'' but ``ke-tsup''	ABSZK::SZETO	Simon Szeto, Asian Base Systems @ZKO	`Tue Dec 13 1988 00:49`	12
	> The deplorable American Heritage gives "ketchup" as the preferred > form and says the derivation is from a Chinese sauce, transliterated > as "ketsiap". The Cantonese term for tomato sauce is "keh tsup" so it's a plausible explanation, but I wouldn't bet on it. But if you buy that derivation, "catsup" should be pronounced with "ts" as an unaspirated affricate, like a German "z." --Simon
591.5	Further Confusion	IND::BOWERS	Count Zero Interrupt	`Tue Dec 13 1988 16:47`	2
	Indonesian cuisine uses a thickened, slightly sweet soy sauce call ketjap (pronounced, I believe, ket-yap).
591.6	were does that tomato come from?	IJSAPL::ELSENAAR	Fractal of the universe	`Wed Dec 14 1988 10:00`	10
	> Indonesian cuisine uses a thickened, slightly sweet soy sauce call > ketjap (pronounced, I believe, ket-yap). But.... then the tomato in the choir, always starting too late, was at least not Indonesian! You know: when he was asked to speed up a bit, he answered: "Don't worry, I'll .... ketjap?????" Arie
591.7	OOhh that hurt !!	CHEFS::LAWSONM	Christmas is for remembering Jesus	`Wed Dec 14 1988 10:22`	8
	Re .6 moan and groan aa Mark 8-)
591.8	oysters & blueberries ?!	COOKIE::DEVINE	Bob Devine, CXN	`Tue Dec 27 1988 18:20`	25
	From the local paper, Colorado Springs Gazette-Telegraph: [note: this probably came from a Del Monte press release] For 70 years there's been a variation on the "you say tomay-to and I say tomah-to" theme. It's "we say ketchup and Del Monte says catsup." But Del Monte has come around. "For the first time since 1916, we are changing our name," says Gordon Chapple, Del Monte's director of marketing for vegetable and tomato products. "The customer has become accustomed to spelling the work with a 'K' and for that reason, we are changing our name." The dictionary favors the "ketchup" spelling, listing "catsup" as the secondary spelling. Either way, ketchup is listed as a thick sauce made of tomatoes and flavored with onion, salt, sugar and spices. While ketchup may seem as all-American as the hamburgers and fries it often accompanies, it originally was a Malaysian condiment. English sailors of the 17th century cultivated a taste for the salty, spiced sauce prepared with the brine of pickled fish. Early American ketchup was made from oysters, blueberries or an assortment or available fruit. Today, in order to be labeled ketchup, the main ingredient must be tomatoes.
591.9	Ketchup in the UK	COMICS::DEMORGAN	Richard De Morgan, UK CSC/CS	`Thu Jan 12 1989 17:33`	1
	In the UK it is called ketchup or tomato ketchup.
591.10	ketchup of the Nile	MARVIN::MACHIN		`Thu Jan 12 1989 17:51`	5
	When does it stop being a ketchup or a sauce and start being a relish? When it gets lumpy? Richard.
591.11	ingredients	COMICS::DEMORGAN	Richard De Morgan, UK CSC/CS	`Fri Jan 13 1989 09:51`	3
	Just had a look at the ingredients on the label of my bottle of Heinz tomato ketchup (arguably the best in the UK): tomatoes, sugar, spirit vinegar, salt, spices (unspecified)