Conference thebay::joyoflex

    There was a James Gordon Bennett who was a 19th century journalist
    and founder of the New York _Herald_.
    
    Bernie

        And when did Jesus Christ get the middle initial 'H' ?

    Re .-1
    
    Here's a WAG.  Lots of church decorations use the device IHS (in Roman
    caps) to represent the Greek initials (iota|chi|sigma) referring to
    `Jesus Christ the Saviour'. I *think* this device may be a throwback to
    the early Christian use of a fish outline (in the catacombs in Rome, an
    probably elsewhere): the letters of the Greek for fish are the initials
    of `Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Saviour'. 
    
    Maybe IHS is where the H comes from. But then there's Judas H. Priest;
    could HE be related, I wonder?
    
    b

    I had always thought that the fish symbol refered to Christ being
    a fisher of men. Bob's version seems a bit more complex than that,
    but that doesn't mean it's not right.:-)
    
    I was taught as a youngster that IHS stoodfor I Have Suffered, so
    maybe my teachers in  primary school just took the most acceptable
    version for kids to understand/swallow.
    
    (Did you get the Wimberley stuff, Bob?)
    
    Phillip

In re: "Why H?"

I don't suppose you'd go for "no particular reason"?  Not everything has 
to tie back to a strong motivation.  I've also heard "M" and "X" put in 
the place of "H."  I think the speaker is just looking for something to 
take the curse off the phrase, so to speak.
						>>>==>PStJTT

>        Who was  Gordon Bennett  ???

I believe he was Frank Purdue's mother's second-cousin's wife's son by a 
previous marriage.  How did his name come up?

					>>>==>PStJTT

    IHS -- stands for "In Hoc Signo (Vinces)"  The phrase translates as "In
    this sign, victory." These are the words the Emperor Constantine saw
    under (over) a cross that appeared in the sky before a decisive battle. 
    
    The details are gone from memory, but the gist is this: Constantine won
    the battle, converted to Christianity, and began the Christianisation
    (is that a word?) of Europe. 
                                 
    That's NOT what appears over Christ on a crucifix.  That acronym is
    INRI  - The latin phrase is something like: Iesu Nazerii Rex Iuderam 
    
    I remember almost nothing from my Latin classes, so I don't doubt
    that the phrase is grammatically incorrect, but you get the idea.
    
    The fish is associated with Christianity for two reasons:  first,
    as someone mentioned earlier, Jesus is described (or rather, describes
    himself) as "A Fisher of Men."  Second, the Greek word for fish,
    ICHTHYS is an acronym (in Greek) for the phrase, "Jesus Christ,
    Son of God, Saviour."
    
    Not bad for a recovering Catholic!
    
    					andrew

    Re .7 (Andrew):
    
    >That's NOT what appears over Christ on a crucifix.  That acronym is
    >INRI  - The latin phrase is something like: Iesu Nazerii Rex Iuderam 
     
    True.  It meant (roughly) "Jesus of Nazereth, King of the Jews,"
    and was placed there at the express order of Pontius Pilate, who
    found no fault in Him.
    
    Re "H":
    
    That has evolved in part for emphasis, and it only makes sense if
    you assume (which would be incorrect) that "Christ" is Jesus' last
    name.  ["Christ" actually means "the anointed one," with "anointed"
    having profound metaphysical meaning, as in "Savior."]  My father
    used the phrase, but expanded the "H" to "Howard."  He never explained
    where the "Howard" came from.
    
    I never knew what the "H" in "Judas H. Iscariot" supposedly stood
    for.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr. 

    Back in my younger days, it was said that the "H." in "Jesus H.
    Christ" stood for "Hallmark". Why?
    
    Because God cared enough to send the very best...	:-)
    
    --- jerry

    re: INRI, I think the phrase was "Iesus Nazarethus Rex Iudeorum".
    
    re: IHS, the "In Hoc Signo (Vinces)" is what I learnt (learned ?) too.

    [However the "I Have Suffered" version in .4 is interesting.
    Some other teachers claim that IHS really stood for "Ich Habe 
    Sauerkraut (gern)" - I like sauerkraut] 
    
    	roger
    

    `In hoc signo' rings a bell; maybe it was my Latin teacher that
    gave me *that* explanation. My Greek teacher gave me the `Iesos
    Christos Soter' version [excuse the Romanized spelling;  this terminal
    can't handle the characters I know]. `I Have Suffered' is plausible
    (if anglocentric). I think .-1 was right, but more so, when he
    gave the hypothetical `Ich Habe Sauerkraut (gern)' - the general
    point is that teachers of any language under the sun are likely
    to propound a version that suits their discipline.
    
    But the derivation of IHS isn't really apposite. We were talking
    about the provenance of the H in Jesus H. Christ; on second thoughts,
    the IHS possibility strikes me as pretty remote.
    
    Bob `I Have Spoken' Knowles

    When I lived in Bristol a few years ago, Gordon Bennett was the
    name of the manager of Bristol Rovers. Considering the team's state
    at the time, it was appropriate ("Gordon Bennett, what a team...")
    
    Andy

Re. In hoc Signo Vinces:

Andrew's explanation in .7 with Constantine is correct if I remember rightly. 
It is also the inscription on the coat of arms on the Pall Mall cigarette
pack. 

Larry

    Surely, Bob, a philologist like you should know that the plural
    of Spoke is Spokes.
    
    Phillip

    Re .0
    
    Gordon Bennett (*is* there a correct spelling?)
    
    Gordon could come from a very distant cry of "God and Mother Mary"
    
    From "God and..." pronounce "Gawd an'..." (London variety).
    
    Gawd an' ........ Gordon . Gordon Mother Mary doesn't go well ,
    so add a different name .
    
    
    Rather like "Arfur Fudgecakes"
    
    
    John J
    
    

    Re .7
    
    > and began the Christianisation (is that a word?) of Europe.
    
    Sounds sorta like sortation, and functionality.
    
    How about:
        the Crucifixion of Europe?
    
    :-)
    
    
    Or Chrism.  Yeah that's it, the Chrism.

    Re .16:
    
>   Sounds sorta like sortation, and functionality.
    
>   How about:
>       the Crucifixion of Europe?
    
    ... or -- with a tip of the hat to Lenny Bruce (you know, the "Electric 
    Chair" routine) --
    
        the Crucifixation of Europe?
    
    -Jim   :-)