Conference thebay::joyoflex

    
    'fortran' is an abbreviation for, an acronym for, or something related
    to 'formula translator'.  As such, by your rules, it should be ForTran
    - but FORTRAN is probably correct. 'Fortran' is probably never correct.
    
    Of course, I would mind if we just banned the word from existence
    entirely.

    Re .0:
    
    BASIC stands for "beginner's all-purpose symbolic instruction code.
    FORTRAN is from "formula translation".  Acronyms should have all
    capital letters, even if parts of them come from letters other than
    initial letters. 
    
    
    				-- edp 

  >                                          Acronyms should have all
  >  capital letters, even if parts of them come from letters other than
  >  initial letters. 
    
    Agreed, until such time as the word becomes part of the language.
    When was the last time you wrote "RADAR" as opposed to radar?  Any
    one want to argue that 'FORTRAN' and 'BASIC' are part of the language
    now?
    

    The full capitalisation of acronyms is a recent trend (the last
    decade, I would say). They always used to be mixed - RoSPA, for
    example, or any of a million military acronyms. I used to work on
    an EPoS project (a capital "O" was frowned upon).
    
    I concede on FORTRAN, however.
    
    I still stand by Pascal and Ada (oh, and Forth).
    
    One thing I find seriously worrying is the increased number of people
    who write entirely in capital letters, just to save having to worry
    about correct capitalisation (see any notes file).
       
    Andy

    re: .0 - smile when you say that about documenters, pardner...
    
    SoMEdAY I aM GOinG TO WriTE A DoCUMeNT In StUDly CaPs....JUsT LiKE
    ThIS....JUsT FOr PEoplE LIke yOU!
    
    :-)
    
    (looks like ee cummings run amok)
    
    -Jody
    

    At least none of you suggested returning to Fortransit the original
    name FORTRAN name.  As to capitalizing - there are some poor folks
    at Digital that tell me they still type in all caps because it is
    faster.  I agree with the person that said it's like SHOUTING at
    me.  But alas, many don't see it that way because they are too lazy
    to press the shift key occasionally, when the lock key is right
    there for them to leave engaged.
    
    Bob Moore - a sometime reader, and always enjoyer of this conference

    re: .5
    
    What's a "studly"?
                                           a
    Also: Have you ever tried reading the L T X manual?
                                             E
    
    Andy (I'm smiling, I'm smiling!)

    Re .4:
    
    > They always used to be mixed - RoSPA, for example, or any of a
    > million military acronyms.
    
    Doesn't use by the military mean the usage is improper English?
    
    
    				-- edp

    Re: .0
    
    Pascal was not a nineteenth century scientist; he lived in the
    seventeenth century.  His major work was in mathematics - he and
    Fermat are regarded as the founders of probability theory.  He is
    also credited with inventing and building one of the first calculating
    machines in history.
    
    Bernie

    Why is "edp" not "EDP"?
    
    PM
    

    Re: .10
    
    "edp" _is_ "EDP". If you don't know what the "E" and the "D" stand
    for, you've probably got the "P" wrong. The term is actually a code
    word for "COBOL programmers" (or CoBOL...)
    
    Re: .9
    
    Thankyou. History never was my strong point. Anyone like to give
    a potted biography of Ada (not Linda) Lovelace? I _think_ she was
    a financier and colleague of Charles Babbage, but I'm not sure.
    For those of you who didn't know, Babbage was the man who designed
    the VAX 8800 in 1895. Due to a shortage of RAM chips at that time,
    he was never able to build it.
    
    Re: .6
    
    "Fortransit"? Is this, perhaps, a derivation from Ford Transit,
    implying that Fortran is slow and noisy but reliable? (Joke for
    UK readers.)
    
    Andy

    DIGITAL (all caps) is short for that corporate entity, Digital 
    Equipment Corporation.
    
    Digital (or digital, when it is not the first word in the sentence)
    is the opposite of analog.
    
    This convention is necessary because of the two meanings of the
    word "digital."
                  
    -bs  (and B.S. has several meanings, too)

    Re .12:
    
    "Digital," initial-capitalized, in press releases and other company-
    originated copy refers to "Digital Equipment Corporation," subsequent
    to the full corporate name appearing in the copy.  Distinction between
    the company and the "opposite" of analog is made via the way the
    word is used in context.
    
    "DIGITAL" is a holdover from the early days when the corpoorate
    name was completely capitalized in advertising copy; it's appropriate
    nowhere else (unless all the copy is all caps).
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.    

    Re: .12
    
    In addition, in technical writing the company is referred to 
    formally as "Digital Equipment Corporation," and informally as 
    "DIGITAL." It is never referred to as "DEC."
              
    -bs

    Re .10:
    
    "edp" is not "EDP" because I prefer it "edp", it stands for "Eric David
    Postpischil" (after Eric the Red) or "Electronic Data Processing"
    because my mother would not let my father make my middle name "Samuel",
    so my father's company is "Expert Systems Programming", and my brother
    is "Alex Matthew Postpischil" (after Alexander the Great) for the
    abbreviation for "ampere". 
    
    
    				-- edp

    But what about
    | | | | | | | |
    |d|i|g|i|t|a|l|
    |_|_|_|_|_|_|_|
                   
    And Digital is officially referred to as DEC in publicity material
    etc. in the UK.
    
    Beg your pardon, edp. I didn't realise it was you he was referring
    to
    
    ACK (handshake signal)

    Does it follow the "initial caps" rule or the "all caps" rule?
    
Lew Lasher

    Re .16
    
    > But what about
    > | | | | | | | |
    > |d|i|g|i|t|a|l|
    > |_|_|_|_|_|_|_|
    >               
    >And Digital is officially referred to as DEC in publicity material
    >etc. in the UK.
     
    The Digital logo, and DEC, are registered trademarks of Digital
    Equipment Corporation.  DEC should only be used as part of something
    (e.g., DECtape, DECwriter); the use of DEC in press materials in
    the U.K. is unfortunate.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

I heard we stopped using DEC because the term was already trademarked
by a "Dairy Equipment Cooperative" in Iowa.

M.

    The current Style Guide for Software Documentation (I haven't checked
    the title, because my copy is out on long-term loan) stipulates all
    caps for DIGITAL (meaning the company as opposed to the opposite of
    analogue); and the DIGITAL Dictionary _uses_ all caps, except when
    it spells out 'Digital Equipment Corporation': e.g.
     
    page 1: spelt out - once
    	    DIGITAL   - as a noun, meaning the company, twice
            DIGITAL   - as an adjective, meaning of/pertaining to the
     			company, twice
    
    I regret this, but can no longer fight it (since I changed from
    editor to writer).
    
    Bob :-( 

    Re .18
    
    We had a memo from the UK board of management instructing us to
    refer to ourselves as "DEC" when talking to customers. Sorry if
    you think this is unfortunate - I'll have a word with Lord Sir Geoff
    Shingles about it.
    
    What would have been wrong with "Digital Equipment"?
    ( - apart from the fact that "Digitalequipmentmate" would have been
    a silly name for a PC)

    This topic was discussed a few months ago in the UK_DIGITAL (sic)
    notesfile.
    
    Andy

    Re .21:
    
    Andy --
    
    I think this is something to take up with Legal in Maynard.  _We've_
    been specifically instructed that because DEC is a registered trademark
    (one of our few), it should only be used as an adjective.  To do
    otherwise weakens its standing as a trademark.
    
    Perhaps the UK board of management oufght to check with Legal.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    > ( - apart from the fact that "Digitalequipmentmate" would have been
    > a silly name for a PC)

    Aw, c'mon.  That's what they answer when you call the Sydney office.
    
    Jeff.

    re .22
    
    Does this mean that every time AT&T use UNIX(TM) as a noun, they're
    weakening its standing as a trademark? Is "adjectivity" a requirement
    of trademarks? I'd genuinely be interested to know.
    
    re .23
    
    Throw another kooka on the barbie (TM)
    
    Andy

    Re .25:
    
    >Does this mean that every time AT&T use UNIX(TM) as a noun, they're
    >weakening its standing as a trademark? Is "adjectivity" a requirement
    >of trademarks? I'd genuinely be interested to know.
     
    Yes.  There was an interesting case on this earlier this century.
    George Eastman developed (unintentional pun) a low-cost, easy-to-use
    camera that he called a Kodak camera.  (As far as I've been able
    to determine, the name was invented out of whole cloth because it
    was short and easy to remember.)  He wanted everyone to be "Kodak"
    conscious; so, among other things, his company not only trademarked
    "Kodak," but started using it as a noun, to be synonymous with
    "camera." [E.g., "Don't forget to bring along your Kodak."]  The
    problem started qwhen the public started to refer to _any_ camera
    as "a Kodak."  When Eastman's company started protesting officially,
    they were advised that the use of the word had become so common
    that it was difficult to regard it as a trademark any more.  So,
    the company (now the Eastman Kodak Company) started rigidly enforcing
    their trademark rights.  There are apparently people on their staff
    full time to check for trademark infractions.
    
    The Technicolor Corporation had a similar problem in the early days
    of chromatic film.  "Technicolor," which was/is a specific process,
    began to be taken by the public to mean anything not in monochrome.
    That ciorporation started protecting its trademark, to the point
    where when a story by the science-fiction author, Harry Harrison,
    was published in _Analog_ a couple of decades ago under the title
    _The Technicolor Time Machine_, the editor got a stiff little note
    from the corporation's legal department that "Technicolor" was a
    registered trademark.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.   

    Re: .-1,.-2
    
    True - I've got a screed about this from US Legal; I'll MAIL it to
    anyone who's interested. 
    
    I think this point of law is more commonly invoked in the US - American
    speakers are careful to talk about 'vacuuming' although I seldom hear
    an English speaker saying anything but 'hoovering' (even when the
    appliance used is an Electrolux). 

    Re .26:
    
    > (As far as I've been able to determine, the name was invented out of
    > whole cloth because it was short and easy to remember.)
    
    It was partially because George Eastman was fond of "k".
    
    
    				-- edp

   
    If I'm not mistaken, "aspirin" was originally a trade name created
    by the makers of Bayer Aspirin tablets.  However, it has been allowed
    for use within the public domain and can now be legally applied
    to products manufactured by others.

    A few years ago I had occasion to research the care and feeding
    of trademarks.  Among the material I collected was a very useful
    document written by Kraft Foods for their internal use.  It specified
    how their trademarks were to be used in printed matter, especially
    advertisements.  Its purpose of course was to protect their trademarks
    from the same fate as 'aspirin,' 'elevator,' 'nylon,' etc.
    
    They said that all trademarks were to be regarded as _proper
    adjectives_.  For example, one should never write "Miracle Whip
    tastes good;" one must write "Miracle Whip salad dressing tastes
    good."  Trademarks as proper adjectives seems like a clear concept
    to me.
    
    Bernie
    (Please, no opinions about the taste of Miracle Whip salad dressing.)
                                                                         

    Re: .27
    
    	Don't helicopters "hoover"?
    
    					--Doug

    re .29:  "Aspirin" is still a trade name in Canada -- ask for aspirin
    and  you'll get Bayer.  I've forgotten the name Canadians use to
    specify acetylsalicylic acid tablets.      
    
    					andrew

    re Aspirin:
    
    And in Europe. I believe that the only place where Aspirin is *not* a
    trademark of Bayer is the U.S. 
    
    	Jon

    MLNOIS::HARBIG
                  re. 33
                  That's true in Italy but I'm not sure about the U.K.
                  I think that there are various brands there.
                                                     Max

    Aspirin is not a trademark in the UK. There are lots of brands of
    aspirin (note small a) available here.
    
    I thought it had something to do with the last war; Bayer being
    a German company, we ignored their trade mark rights.
    
    John.

    If anyone is still interested, Ada Lovelace, daughter of Lord Byron
    (the poet), in addition to being Charles Babbage's financier and
    colleague, was his mistress.
    
    Oh, those Victorians!!!
    
    stel

    Re: the original note and others
    
    I've been browsing in my Shorter OED, and...
    
    It lists "Fortran (also FORTRAN)..." Ho hum.
    
    "Aspirin" is described as "originally a trademark" but is given
    common noun status.
    
    Incidentally, the etymology for "real-time" quotes an IBM 3600 sales
    brochure. Has DEC ever gained such respectability, I wonder?
    
    Andy

>>    Incidentally, the etymology for "real-time" quotes an IBM 3600 sales
>>    brochure. Has DEC ever gained such respectability, I wonder?

    FWIW, DEC products are pictured in many places in _The American
    Heritage Dictionary_, e.g. the illustration for the word "computer".

    Re .38:
    
    Well, they _ought_ to be.  _The American Heritage Dictionary_ was
    _typeset_ with Digital products (actually, Typeset-8). ;-)
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    re: Kodak
    
    George Eastman was a teetotaler.  His favorite drink was soda water.
    If his favorite letter was 'k', then didn't have much trouble liking
    "Kodak".
    
    Aspirin is known as ASA in some places, like Canada.

    Use of all-caps for acronyms (FORTRAN, COBOL) makes sense.  Use
    of all-caps for non-acronyms (DIGITAL) is offensive.  "I can shout.
    Don't hear you."

    	I assume that ASA is just an abbreviation of acetyl-salicylic
    acid?

    > of all-caps for non-acronyms (DIGITAL) is offensive.  "I can shout.
    > Don't hear you."

     Must be synchronicity! I just changed my personal name to the above
     days ago.

The following trademarks are listed as "unprotected" in "Words into Type:" 

	aspirin		kerosene	nylon
	calico		lanolin		raisin bran
	cellophane	linoleum	trampoline
	escalator	milk of magnesia  yo-yo
	hansom		mimeograph	zipper

Raisin bran?  Wow.

Eric

    There's another that seems to be coming into being.
    
    Those who've been watching the Showtime movie channel have
    probably noticed that the "Showtime" logo is displayed at
    given times throughout a movie. Apparently, Showtime is doing
    this because some people are starting to think of the trade-
    marked name "HBO" (for Home Box Office) as a general term for
    "cable movie station" and want to get it into the heads of
    these people that they aren't actually watching HBO.
    
    --- jerry

    Another explanation for .44 would be that they display "Showtime" on
    the screen out of perversity -- if you're taping the movie, you're
    taping the "Showtime" message, and thus are always reminded of where
    you taped it. Thus a form of advertising. Also, it is in the interests
    of the movie sellers, since to get a clean copy, you have to buy it. If
    the clean copy means something to you, you will. 
    
    	Jon

    re:.45
    
    That may well be the real reason. But the reason I gave has
    appeared in print as Showtime's "official" reason.
    
    I tend to believe it because I've heard people use the term
    HBO to mean "pay movie station".
    
    --- jerry

    
    Flaunt vs. flout. They are pretty close, except in meaning...
    
    JP

    the 99.9999% of people in digital who think "alot" is a word
    
    not to mention "aswell", aswell      :-)
    
    
    Colonel Blimp

Is that anything like, fruitfly?

    As Humpty Dumpty would of said:
    
    Another words, the question(sp) is who is too be master, the
    men (and woman) or the nonwords.
    
    
    
    Pet peeve number 114:
    
    While I was typing the above reply, DECwindows had more pause than my
    cat.  I spent more time waiting than typing.
    
    -- Norman Diamond