Conference thebay::joyoflex

    I had noticed this too -- First every noun was forced (often at
    gunpoint) to pack a full load of adjectives no matter how weak it
    was in the first place. Now verbs are bing forced to do the same
    thing.
    
    But I wouldn't worry. The adjectives will quickly (fastly?) collapse
    under the overload, and when nobody's looking we will rush in with our
    adverbs and take over the world! 
    
    --bonnie

    
    I agree, but "quick" is a poor example, an exception; e.g.,
    
    "He runs quick." is acceptable.
    
    Ed
    

Lots of people have heard the one about not splitting infinitives.
more - I bet - than people who know what an infinitive is.  But
infinitives are usually split by adverbs. So maybe the decline of the
adverb is just a way of guaranteeing that live interviews are 'correct'
- if boring, because the verbs are monotonous.
    
    Bob
    
    

    
    
    ... is "He runs quick" acceptable?
    
    
    Dick_for_whom_the_split_infinitve_grates_like_fingernails_on_a_chalk_board
                      
    

    Re .4:
    
    >    ... is "He runs quick" acceptable?

    ...unless you believe in marathoner zombies. :-)
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    Most marathoners look like zombies by the end of the race!
    
    --bonnie

    
    r�: .3 & .4 (glad to see a smiley face in .4):
    
                 Of course it's acceptable.
                 The note would not have been entered otherwise.
    
    

    
    I think Star Trek did in the English language and made split
    infinitives acceptable to a whole generation...
    
    To boldly go....
    

    Re: .-1
    >>           -<Beam me up Scotty... >-

           Would you like Kirk, Spock, and Bones, also?
    
    Sorry, couldn't resist ;-)

    I can't see how "he runs quick" can ever be 'correct', unless you
    choose the archaic meaning of "not dead", as others joked.  Surely
    it's just another case of an adverb being adjectivized (ouch!).
    Akin to using 'good' in place of 'well'.
    
    Jeff.

    
    Jeff,
    
    	Is this trying to tell us that your name is really
    	"Wellenough" ?
    
    	:-)
    

    re .10:
    
    I know exactly how you feel. Last night I was making tofu for dinner
    and I was aghast to see "made with well water" on the package. I intend
    to write them and tell them that it should be "made with good water!" 
    
    	Jon

    Careful.  You don't want to go to the good too often.

    This brings up an interesting question.
    
    Is the exercize room on the first floor of ZK1 more appropriately
    known as "The Wellness Center" or "The Goodness Center"?
    
    --bonnie

    re .14 "Wellness Center" is fine. "Well" is an adjective as well
    as an adverb, especially when used to refer to health.
    
    "Exercise room" is less pompous, though.
    
    					Val
    

    "Gym" is least pompous of all.
    
    Interesting progression from 'gym' to 'exercise room' to 'wellness
    center'.  Wonder what's next in the series.
    
    Bernie

    re: .15 --
    
    I guess I should have put a smiley face on "goodness center"...
    
    re: .16 --
    
    What's next?  My guess is the emergency room . . . 
    
    --bonnie

    Re: -1
    
    Smiley faces don't work - see 2.8n
    
    I guess gym sounds a bit stern (because of German 'gymnasium', stiffly
    starched gymslips, 'The Dance at the Gym' and so on).  Interesting
    about 'st-' words. 
    
    Intensive physical self-improvement center?

    My daughter provides the following antique but not inappropriate
    lyric for our edification and delight:
    
    		A doctor fell into a well
    		And broke his collarbone.
    		A doctor should attend the sick
    		And leave the well alone.
    
    
    --bonnie

    re. .16
    
    or should it be FATless farm
    
    

    No, "he runs quick" is not correct, but then that's probably what
    people used to say about "she runs fast," which is perfectly correct
    now, the adjective having been "adverbized!"
    
    Eileen
    

    Re .21:
    
    But "fast" means "fixed," as in "it was made fast'; thus, "She runs
    fast" means she's running in place.
    
    
    Unless it means she's heading a movement of people who are refusing
    to eat.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    
    r�: past.
    
         I'm not in this for the ego.  There exist a number of English
    standards defending the usage of the word "quick" as both adjective
    and adverb.  I'm only relaying this here so other readers, interested
    in knowing the truth, can get it.
         I'm willing to cite references for all my entries; I don't
    think I should have to, unless challenged.  But if there's a challenge
    to a position, BOTH sides should be required to present the conflicting
    data.
         "He runs quick." is acceptable.
    

    It beats "He runs dead." all to flinders.

    Philip Gucker, writing about adverbs in his book _Essential English
    Grammar_, states the general rule we are all familiar with: "Many
    adverbs are formed from adjectives, by adding an -ly ending..."
    
    Later in his discussion, he describes some exceptions: "A few ...
    words have two adverb forms: _quick/quickly_, _slow/slowly_,
    _cheap/cleaply_. The difference is in the degrees of formality:
    Drive _slow_.  Advance _slowly_."
    
    That's at least one grammarian who supports Ed's view.
    
    Bernie

    
    r�: .25
    
    ...it was either that passage or a passage like that where I first
    encountered "quick", among others, referred to as an adverb - any
    idea, Bernie, as to what the criterion(a) for forming that 
    exception would be ?
    
    r�: others...
    
         Your cherished OED clearly lists an adverbial usage for "quick";
    the much-maligned American Heritage tends towards agreement with the 
    disapproval you show.  I find its qualification both amusing and
    fascinating:  
    
                "Both 'quick' and 'quickly' can be used as adverbs.  'Quick'
    is more frequent in speech: 'Come quick !'  In writing, the slightly
    more formal 'quickly' is preferred: 'When he heard the news, John
    returned quickly'.  *In the latter example, 'quick' would be
    unacceptable to a large majority of the Usage Panel.*"
    
    Amusing =>     there's either editorial overrule or in-fighting @AH,
                   and WE get to sort through dirty laundry.
    
    Fascinating => On what grounds did the minority editors or Panel
                   overrule ?
    
    
    
    
   
    

    
    r�: .21
    
    Wrong on both counts.
    "He runs quick" IS "correct" (though not popular);
    and there is no adjective in "She runs fast".

    ...and the "ize" issue belongs elsewhere, is dead-as-quick, and
    just as boring.
    
    

    Re: .25
    
    Thanks Bernie. Did Gucker give only those three exceptions? I think the
    tendency that this topic is talking about is the tendency to use
    adjectives as though they were adverbs, rather than the tendency to use
    adverbs that seem to be adjectives.  If there's an update of Gucker's
    book, the list of exceptions (to the -ly 'rule') will probably be
    longer. Some people regard that tendency (the first one) as lamentable.
    Not everyone does. 
    
    (Incidentally, I don't think I've ever seen 'Drive slow' - not on a
    British English sign. There are signs saying 'SLOW - <reason for
    driving slowly>; and the word SLOW is often painted on the road surface
    itself.  But I've always thought SLOW in these cases was just an
    abridged '[Make sure that your speed is] SLOW' or 'SLOW down'. What
    matters in road signs is that the message gets across. Similarly,
    I interpret 'selling something off cheap' as meaning 'selling
    something off for a cheap price'.) 


    Re: .2?
    
    Criteria: Gucker's 'degrees of formality' is a cop-out.  He doesn't
    want to say 'only in speech' because someone might prove him wrong by
    scribbling a note like "Pub at lunchtime? Give you a lift if you come
    quick." In colloquial speech, anything goes (and most things do go) as
    long as what remains makes sense to the person spoken to. I think
    formal writing (in which _I_ at least wouldn't expect to find
    Gucker's exceptions) is writing that will be read by a number of
    people, some at least of whom aren't familiar to the writer. 
    
    Bob

    

    
    r�: -1 ?  :')
    
    I question that such a vague criterion as colloquial speech vs.
    formal writing would be the sole cause of producing such a 
    limited and definitive list.
    

    The only criterion that Gucker offers is "degree of formality."
    That is more than Fernald offers in his _English Grammar Simplified_.
    Fernald simply states that some adverbs are identical in form with
    adjectives: "The words _deep, early, hard, long, loud, quick_, and
    some others are sometimes used as adjectives, and sometimes as
    adverbs."
    
    There are a few words that are simply exceptions to the "add -ly
    ending" rule and they seem to be recognized as such by grammarians.
    In some cases the reason for the exception is clearer than in others.
    As Fernald points out, "'He was _hard_ pressed,' would be changed
    in meaning if it read, 'He was _hardly_ pressed.'"
    
    Bernie