Conference thebay::joyoflex

    And here's _my_ guess:
    
    In the olden days, when policemen performed foot patrol, there were
    always cops whose beat included the park.  Frequently, transients
    (hoboes) would use the park benches as beds for the night.  When
    a policeman would see one of these sleeping, he'd take his nightstick
    and strike them smartly on the soles of the feet, awakening them,
    usually with the admonition to "Move along, now."
    
    To the hoboes (or bums, as they were often called), this was unjust
    and unfair since the benches were available to the public, of which
    surely even a hobo was one.  In time, I suspect, any treatment that
    was felt to be unjust was called a "bum's rap," later shortened
    to a "bum rap."
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

  Two of the Merriam-Webster definitions of "rap" are 'to criticize sharply'
  and 'to arrest, hold, or sentence on a criminal charge.'

  "Bum" is American slang for 'bad.'  It's not all that common today but
  my grandfather used to this word in all sorts ways in all sorts of situations,
  e.g., "this toaster is on the bum."

  So a bum rap starts as an unjust accusation and proceeds from there to
  unjust arrest, incarceration, and so forth.

  JP

    Yes.  "Bum" is an Americanism for false or erroneous.  Another example
    is "bum steer," which is a misdirection or misleading information.
    
    Bernie

    Almost 1.,2., but "rap" was slang for being arraigned before the
    judge, and a "bum rap" was to be arrested for something that you
    did not do!  
    
    	Rick
    	Merrill
    

	This term must absolutely slay British people, since "bum" in
    England has quite a different meaning than it does in the colonies.
    
    							Dave()

  What is the etymology of the UK variety of "bum?"  Is it just the
  elision of "bottom?" 

  JP

Since "bum" has a number of meanings here (bad, posterior region (backside),
vagrant etcetera) aren't you going to add to that with the UK version? 

        Mike

(Reentered after a bad mistake for a file like this. No comments from those 
that happened to have read it please :-)

	I was a trifle surprised by John's observation that "bum" isn't
	all that common today.

	My family, friends, and neighbors found regular employment for the
	word "bum".  We lived within an indigenous New England subculture
	which drew substantially from its English forebears.  For instance,
	I learned to say "cahnt", not "cant".  Sometimes I say "tomahto",
	to confuse outsiders.

	"Bum's" strict meaning of course was in reference to the fleshy
	part of the leg, as Mr. Wodehouse calls it -- also known as the
	nether regions, I believe.  Anyhow, in combination with
	voluptuous connotations, plus some imaginative abstractions,
	"bum" served many compact purposes.  "Bum baby!" came in handy,
	and still does, when addressing a mischievous family pet.
	"You bum, you!" serves similarly when acknowledging an admirable
	if not altogether commendable achievement.  The sensitive reader
	will detect that these are familiar terms.  One finds difficulty
	conjuring the image of Mr. Reagan addressing the pope in this
	style -- though possibly not the other way round...

	I once read in some popular account (the Globe, maybe) a report by
	a comedian that when he asked a British audience whether, after
	protracted sitting in the auditorium's seats, didn't their bums
	become uncomfortable, there was a strained reaction.  He claimed
	to have been subsequently instructed that in England, gentlemen
	did not have bums (or was it ladies?  I forget).  One hopes this
	story is true.

	Can anyone speak on the origins of "bummer" and "bummed out"?
	
	Regards, Robert.

	PS  The title of this topic is wonderful.  One is compelled to
	    append "... gently tapping...".

    
    
    RE: ALL
    
    	The term "bum rap" is used alot by my friends. The meaning of
    	it is supposed to be "A bad deal." Such as a teacher giving
    	a student a bad grade when, instead, they should have given
    	them a fairly decent grade.   
    
    					/^PiT^\

    Also, is there a connection between "bum" and "buns"?

    Re .3,
    
    I thot a "bum steer" was a tough steak.
    
    Bill

>	Can anyone speak on the origins of "bummer" and "bummed out"?

"Bummer" grew out of "bad trip" (alternately "bum trip.")  Refering, of 
course to a bad experience with LSD, but applied without discretion by 
people who were teens in the 60's.  Your dog dies, "Hey...bad trip, man." 
Your folks drag you to the barber, "It was a bad trip."

Of course, parents and school authorities got concerned: if you were 
using "drug talk," you were using drugs.  So a bowdlerized version, 
"bummer," came out.  

"Bummed out" was a variation of "<insert a condition>-ed out" which was 
a case of being in that condition. e.g.

	"Saturday morning I was cooled out, just watching the 'toons."  
or
	"So I says, 'wadda ya want, pig?' and he, like, fliped out on me."

Thus if you were in a situation where things were going bad or you were 
getting depressed, "I was, like REALLY bummed out, man."

					>>>==>PStJTT

    MLNOIS::HARBIG
                  Using as an excuse the 60's slang referred to
                  in .13 I remembered an old joke:-
    
    Worried British father who has just received a transatlantic call
    from his daughter who is at UCLA:
    
     "My dear, Elspeth just called and said she had been picked up by
      the fuzz.Whatever can it mean?"
    
    Equally worried mother:
    
     "I haven't the faintest idea but it sounds awfully painful!"
    
                        Max

Oh yeah, that's what happens in Los Angeles when the smog occasionally
clears.



	UCLA !



ha ha heh heh hee hee ho ho hoo hoo OY

"bum" refers to the, um, er, *front* side of a *woman's* um, er.... backside.

"fanny/fannie" refers to the backside of a man's *or* woman's um, er, backside.


--angela, who is not at all embarassed to say "um, er" in the notefile

>
>"bum" refers to the, um, er, *front* side of a *woman's* um, er.... backside.
>
>"fanny/fannie" refers to the backside of a man's *or* woman's um, er, backside.
>
>
>--angela, who is not at all embarassed to say "um, er" in the notefile



In Oz it is the opposite, as you would expect from us down under. It is not 
polite to use the word fanny when referring to the anatomy. 

The fanny and the bum are both the same height off the ground. The fanny
(aka anglo-saxon c***; maybe from the LATIN cuni meaning wedge 8-) )
is on the front side of a woman ( men don't have fannies) and everybody has
a bum, aka backside or arse.

    re .-1
    
    Same thing in fair Albion's tongue.
    

    It is interesting, and not entirely off the point, that little rabbits
    (Latin: cuniculus) were called were (in English) called `cunnies' until
    British educators/governesses/people-in-charge-of-young-people's-moral-
    well-being decided that the cun* bit was a bit near the knuckle and
    changed it to bunny. And now there are buns. There's no escape. It'll
    be warm showers next.
    
    b

    I always thought it was `coney' (which DECspell doesn't recognize, at
    least not on this side of the pond).  Although I suppose the amount of
    regional variation is pronunciation might turn that into just about
    anything...

    Roy

re .-1: ayup

cony, coney : n. rabbit; rabbit fur; (Bibl.) hyrax. 
[ME cunin(g) f AF coning, OF conin, f. L cuniculus]

Concise OED, 6th ed.

    Coney is an Island, not a hyrax!

	OK. What then, is a 'bun' and what is its derivation. I assume 
	that it is a US of A term?

	rgds ted

    A bun is one-half of a bum.

A coney is a kind of frankfurter, often served on a bun.

�cony, coney : n. rabbit; rabbit fur; (Bibl.) hyrax. 
�[ME cunin(g) f AF coning, OF conin, f. L cuniculus]
    
    Indeed. None of that is at odds with what I said in .19: sure, coney
    is derived from cuniculus (via OF and/or AF); so is the word cunny
    (not in the COED); so - for that matter - is Sp. conejo. There are
    always umpteen words derived from any one source, and the existence
    of any one does not disprove the derivation of any other.
    
    b

    Actually, what I was thinking is that `cunny' might be derived from
    `coney'.  The ancient Greeks used the same word for pig and `cunny' -
    /khoiros/ I think - although a rabbit seems more apropos to me somehow. 
    (Is this getting too racy for a notes conference?)  Aristophanes' play
    _The_Acharnians_ (I think that's the one) has a lot of untranslatable
    puns around this...
    
    As for the derivation of `bunny', I don't claim to have any
    knowledge...  (Which means I can speculate at random, I guess.)
    
    Blushing as much as is required,
    
    Roy

    >although a rabbit seems more apropos to me somehow.
    
    'Cause of Playboy?
    
    >(Is this getting too racy for a notes conference?)
    
    Not necessarily, if we're cunning enough to keep it within bounds.
    
    (Will that word now be changed to "bunning"?)

    >(Will that word now be changed to "bunning"?)
    
    Why? Ban't you say anything starting with the letter "b"?
    
    

    Per W9NCD, bunny is from English dialect bun, rabbit (1690).

    "Actually, what I was thinking is that `cunny' might be derived from
    `coney'."
    
    No.  Even our pathetic AHD says (coney -- see cony) cony ...
    [ < Lat. cuniculus.]
    
    The problem is the negative associations involved with the root term,
    and the meta-problem is the negative associations involved with the
    concept of anything so, uh, female without being daintily feminine.
    But, like it or not, cunni and kenni are basic Indo-European roots,
    and they refer to what you think they do!
    
    							Ann B.
    
    P.S.  If you want a good blush, read a description of the source of
    the River Kennet in England.

>    
>    P.S.  If you want a good blush, read a description of the source of
>    the River Kennet in England.


Ann,

Never let it be said that I let a chance go by... Where do I find
such a description?


rgds ted

    In _The_Silbury_Treasure_ by Michael Dames, somewhere around pages
    110-120.  There are pictures too.
    
    It's a book about a particular archaeological site, one that has been
    underappreciated.  (Understandably so.  It appears to be just a
    grass-covered hill with a partial ditch, whereas its neighbors are
    Avebury and Stonehenge.)
    
    							Ann B.