Conference thebay::joyoflex

    Re 0:
>   First of all, aren't all swords double-edged ?
    
    Not so. I'm no expert on swordsmanship/fencing, but a quick check shows
    that the cavalry sabre has only one edge (the fencing sabre supplements 
    this with a second short edge on the reverse side) and the �p�e or foil 
    has three edges.

> From the context, the expression seems to imply that what's being
> referred to has both GOOD and BAD attributes.

  I've never considered it to have good and bad attributes.  Rather, I've
  taken it to imply something especially effective or piercing.  The expression
  may have first occurred in the King James (or a predecessor's)
  translation of Hebrews 4:12.  It goes something like "The word of God is
  sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the joints and marrow ...".

  I don't think I've heard it in other contexts, so I won't guess how other
  people use this phrase.

    As a fancier of fencing and a former fencer I feel free to point
    out that the foil is fashioned after the French rapier which did
    most of its damage when pointed at and through the opponent.
    
    A foil has four edges and is tapered such that the first 12 inches
    will flex freely. Given the rules of contact (and scoring), a three
    sided affair would be deadly as is a foil when those first 12 inches
    break off. 
    
    There is a related sport which uses sabres and allows slashing
    (fencing does not). The sabre may have three sides to maintain
    rigidity. 
    
    The cavalry sabre had one cutting edge. My fencing coach used to
    demonstrate sabre tactics on horseback learned from his father who
    used to chase Poncho Villa across the border. There was  this one
    move used to behead another rider ...
    
    -Dick
    

    Re .0, .2:
    
    The current meaning of "double-edged sword" is indeed that you can
    cut yourself with it as well as your enemy.  Many swords have only
    one "edge," in the sense of being able to cut effectively, the sanre
    being perhaps the classic example.
    
    Many Roman battle swords were double-edged.
    
    Re .1:
    
    In terms of _fighting_ swords, the sabre does indeed have 1.167
    edges.  The epee really has one edge, and the foil and estoc have
    none.  If you look at a sabre, you'll notice the dress sabres with
    _real_ edges also have a hollow running along the ceter of the sides
    of the blade.  TYhis shows they could also be used as thrusting
    weapons (the hollow is to facilitate withdrawal).
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    Re .3, lines 1-2:  How about that alliterative tour de force! 
 

    re .5:
    
    Frankly, freely flung fancy flow of farout f-words is fine.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.                                   

The only times I've heard (or used) the phrase it was "Two-edged sword" 
and the meaning was that the argument being advanced could cut both me 
and the person using it.  Thus if someone said my solution to a problem 
didn't account for, say, time to market; I would label the argument a 
two-edged sword if the same argument could be applied to their solution.

I think there is an old saying about a two-edged sword having no master, 
but I don't know where it might have come from.
						>>>==>PStJTT

    
    Just a technical point, the hollow, or indentation allong the side
    of a sword has nothing to do with making it easier to withdraw or
    "letting the blood flow" as I have heard elsewhere.  The reason
    is really more simple:  It decreases the weight of the sword without
    significantly reducing the strength.  Simple as that.
    
    On the question of double edged swords, I always took the expresion
    as "double edge swords cut both ways", i.e. you can cut yourself
    as well as your opponent with them.  I will have to ask some of
    my SCAdian friends who are into heavy weapons about this.  It occurs
    to me that if there is a second edge on your weapon, you have to
    take care to avoid it in close fighting. Consider the classic movie
    fencing pose where the two fighters have their swords crossed and
    are pressing hard against each other.  If you have a second edge
    on your sword, you have to be careful of it cutting your own neck
    if your opponent is strong enough.
    
    	Peter C
    

    Battle Axes and Broadswords were normally double edged so that the
    warrior could hack the enemy twice as fast!  The danger was that
    too much follow through could strike your ally!  It's this latter
    caution that gives rise to the metaphor!  
    
    Sabres and epees came much later with more sophisticated combat
    that actually followed "rules", of all things.  
    
    	Rick
    	Merrill
    
    (My grandpa chased Pancho Villa too!)
    
    

    re .4 >Many Roman battle swords were double-edged. 
    
    True, but the Roman soldiers *always* thrust with them,
    never slashed. This tactic in conjunction with disciplined
    footwork, allowed them to conquer the world. And to prove 
    that history repeats itself, it worked again - for Muhammed
    Ali. :-)

    MLNOIS::HARBIG
                  Re .10 quite true and this also accounts
                  for the unprecedented level of unemployment
                  among false nose makers during the Roman
                  Empire.
                           Max