[Search for users] [Overall Top Noters] [List of all Conferences] [Download this site]

Conference thebay::joyoflex

Title:The Joy of Lex
Notice:A Notes File even your grammar could love
Moderator:THEBAY::SYSTEM
Created:Fri Feb 28 1986
Last Modified:Mon Jun 02 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1192
Total number of notes:42769

348.0. "Word vs. Phrase" by ESPN::KELLIHER (Ed Kelliher) Fri Apr 24 1987 10:08

    
    In another conference, there is a discussion around the _phrase_
    "state of the art".
    
    This _phrase_ is listed as a "dictionary entry" in many dictionaries.
    None of the dictionaries in which this _phrase_ is listed purport
    to listing anything but _words_.  Additionally, this _phrase_ is
    defined as a "noun...[qualifiers]".  These same dictionaries define
    a "noun" as a "word...[qualifiers]".  I come to the guarded 
    conclusion that these dictionaries therefore perceive this dictionary
    entry as a _word_.
    
    If this dictionary entry is a "word", there would seem to be an
    issue around embedded spaces, i.e., "lack of a contiguous character
    string - _if_ we define spaces as always representing delimiters
    to character string ("word" ?) contiguity.
    
    However, if this dictionary entry is a _phrase_, with what criteria
    are _phrases_ entered ?   Certainly, there exists myriad phrases
    not entered into dictionaries.
    
    Asides:
    
    Is the grammatical construct "noun phrase (or clause)" a lexical
    construct as well ?  If so, do all of the modifiers in the noun
    phrase (lexically, not grammatically) inherit "nounship" ?
    
    One dictionary definition of "phrase" is "a word, or group of
    words..."; is this what they're referring to ?    
    
    Ed
    
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
348.1....hmmm, a ditty from across the pond!IOSG::ROBERTSRTue May 05 1987 09:0928
    Hi,
    
    The use of the lexical item "phrase" is confusing me a little here.
    In the terms of many linguistic theories, the term "phrase" describes
    a functional unit which may (in the case of a Noun Phrase) perform
    the function of a grammatical object/subject in a clause/sentence.
    In this case, the Noun Phrase may contain adjectivals, or adverbials
    and these do not inherit "nounness" beacuse of their inclusion.
    However, if an adjectival phrase (ie "The Old were.....") is used
    as the sub/obeject of a clause/sentence, then it can be said that
    the adjective "old" is being used in a "nominalized" form. 
    
    However hard a lexicographer may try, s/he cannot simply restrict
    the scope of a dictionary to single lexical items, for then this
    would simply become a word-list. By introducing "phrases" and idioms
    into their dictionaries, the lexicographers are recognizing that
    it is not always the "word" which is the semantic unit they are
    there to list.  It may be that these people choose to define the
    term "word" differently; to them, it may "mean" a semantic unit
    which may exist on its own. If this is the case, and if all
    lexicographers hold to this, then there is no problem, and the term
    "word" becomes another piece of lexicographer jargon.
    
    Well there's my two-penneth worth....
    
    Cheers,
    
    Richard...
348.2new wordingVIA::RANDALLI feel a novel coming onThu May 12 1988 19:0326
    Revisiting this subject long after it died peacefully in its
    sleep: 
    
    First of all, entire phrases and even clauses can and do function
    as nouns in a sentence.  The most familiar examples are the gerund
    phrase (Owning a house is an expensive proposition) and the
    inifinitive phrase (To know oneself is to achieve peace). In each
    of these sentences, the phrase, though composed of separate words,
    functions as a single noun in the context of a sentence. 
    
    The other point that comes to mind is that the concept of "word"
    predates the printing convention of separating lexical units by a
    space.  Many languages, including Hebrew and old English, were
    routinely written down without spaces when they were transcribed
    by hand; you can find examples of such spaceless writing in most
    any language that was written down.  
    
    Albert Lord, in his research on oral poetry, found that
    nonliterate poets conceive of "word" differntly: poets would swear
    they repeated a story "word for word" when the story appeared to
    us as only a paraphrase or a retelling of the same theme. 

    Isn't it amazing what a person will think of while she's waiting
    for DOCUMENT to give her file back?
        
     --bonnie