Conference thebay::joyoflex

    How can one reply if one has never plied?
    
    How can one resist if one has never sisted?
    
    ... renew ... newed?
    
    

    Those who are not inept are, I suppose, ept.  Some people even show
    great eptness; at least, they have no eptitude problems.
    
    Bernie

    Isn't there at least one other note in this conference about
    "lost positives".
    
    Among others:
    
    Gruntled
    Kempt
    Sheveled
    
    --- jerry

    > Those who are not inept are, I suppose, ept.  Some people even show
    > great eptness; at least, they have no eptitude problems.    
    
    Sorry, there really *is* a positive for this -- apt. (Don't let
    the vowel shift fool you.)
    
    After all, people who are apt have no aptitude problems.
    
    					andrew

>    Sorry, there really *is* a positive for this -- apt. (Don't let
>    the vowel shift fool you.)

Similarly, the opposite of "unkempt" is "combed".  Don't let the vowel shift
(or the consonant shift) fool you, either.

-Mike

    'Inflammable' has the same meaning as (the somewhat less
    elegant) 'flammable'. A recent newspaper article (reference lost)
    contained a comment to the effect that certain things wouldn't burn
    because they were *inflammable*.  

    Okay, now what about "gruntled" and "sheveled"?
    
    	Jon

    Re: .4
    
    One meaning of "inept" is "clumsy," which isn't a negative of "apt."
    (This may be a shi(f)ty business, but not a vowel problem.)
    
    Bernie

    re -1:  
    
    > One meaning of "inept" is "clumsy," which isn't a negative of "apt."    
      
    With all due respect, SO WHAT? A word's meaning has *nothing* to
    do with its origin, and vice versa.
    
    The meaning of words change with time, sometimes drastically, sometimes
    subtly.  An example of a subtle change might be "quick".  Its
    primary original meaning was "alive".  Its primary meaning now is
    "fast". 

    You want an example of a more drastic change?  Well, the root for the 
    word "margarine" is the Greek word for "pearl".

    Re: .9
    
    Didn't mean to ruffle you feathers.  Your description of the vowel
    shift (from apt to inept) was informative to me.  I had never used
    "inept" to mean "not apt," so I appreciated your reply.  The meaning
    "clumsy" doesn't fit "not apt."
    
    > A word's meaning has *nothing* to do with its origin, and vice
    versa.
    
    I don't agree in all cases.  One example is the word "kaleidoscope,"
    which was constructed out of three words from ancient Greek: kalos
    (beautiful), eidos (form), and scopion (to see).  
    
    Another example is the word "calculate," whose origin is the Latin word
    for "pebble;" pebbles were commonly used in ancient times to do
    arithmetic.  I think origins of words are often relevant to their
    modern meanings.
    
    Bernie

    > ..."inept" to mean "not apt," so I appreciated your reply.  The meaning
    > "clumsy" doesn't fit "not apt."                                         
       
    *sigh*  I've been doing this a lot lately.  I missed your point
    about "clumsy" and "not apt".  I didn't mean to sound ruffled,
    just precise.  Maybe someday I'll succeed in saying exactly what
    I mean to say -- but I doubt it...
    
    					andrew

    "Over here there's a mine field.  Some of the mines are inert.
    Others are ert."
    
    			-Sergeant in "Private Benjamin"

    
    After reading James Thurber's "The Thirteen Clocks" numerous times,
    I still laugh out loud when I read of the unfortunate King whose
    foot is caught in a trap.  He cries "Pity me, for I am no longer
    ert and have lost my ertia".
    

    I just read this note too --  what a coincidence.
    
    In the discussion of "apt" and "inept" -- you're both right. "Apt" used
    to mean "able" or "competent" in roughly Elizabethan times. (I'm not
    sure when the meaning shifted.) A person they would have described as
    "an apt baker" we would probably call "a skillful baker" or "a dextrous
    baker" -- maybe even "a competent baker."  So "inept" meant "not
    skillful" or "not too competent" -- that is, clumsy. 

    Couth, kempt, and sheveled were all in common use in Elizabethan times.

    Couth is related to kith.  It connotes that you know what is fitting or
    proper.  Both kith and couth stem from an Old English word that meant
    "knowledge" or "understanding". The phrase "all my kith and kin" means
    "both my blood relatives and those I choose to associate with because
    they're suited to me."
    
    Kempt is was used in England as late as the 19th century in the
    phrase "a well-kempt garden" and perhaps others I don't know about.
    
    Many words such as "inertia" did have an "ert" form at one time -- just
    not in English.  In those cases the Greek or Latin word was imported
    whole, already negative.  

    --bonnie, who always knew there must be some reason she majored in
    Renaissance drama 

    Re .14:
    
    My wife, when speaking of an impolite or unpolished person, has
    said for as long as I've known her, "He [or she] has no couth."
    So it isn't as inert as you might imagine.
    
    I believe "ken" as in "see" in the sense of "understand" derived
    equivalently. 
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    Re: .14
    
    >So "inept" meant "not skillful" or "not too competent" - that is,
    >clumsy.
    
    I suppose I should defer to Elizabethan scholarship, Bonnie, but
    it seems possible for a person to be unskilled or incompetent without
    being clumsy.  Couldn't one also be skilled, competent, and clumsy
    at the same time?
    
    Bernie

    Sure it would, but then "inept" and "clumsy" aren't exact synonmyms
    even now.  Seems to me that "clumsy" implies a sort of habitual
    ineptitude, while "inept" implies clumsiness in only a limited area --
    for instance, I'm pretty inept on ice skates but I wouldn't say
    I'm generally clumsy. 

    --bonnie

    I suppose if any two words were "exact synonyms" we would have at
    least one unnecessary word.  Interesting; I wonder if there are
    any sets of words that are exact synonyms.  Any takers out there?
    
    It makes as much sense to me to say the opposite; viz., I'm pretty
    clumsy on ice skates but I'm not generally inept.  Either, it seems,
    can be used in either sense.  Julia Childs seems rather clumsy in
    the kitchen: she drops pans, splatters sauces, bumps into things,
    but at the same time she's certainly skillful in the kitchen.
                         
    Bernie

    And dipping her pearls in the pasta sauce.
    
    Good point. 
    
    I'm much better at what words used to mean than I am at what they mean
    now  . . . I still haven't caught up to the 20th century . . . 

    --bonnie

    Was Othello ever just plain ish?
    
    How can I feel mortified by entering this reply if I've never felt
    tified?
    
    Ad nauseum, and it probably doesn't take long.
    
    Ray Eel