Conference thebay::joyoflex

    Do derivatives count?
    
    "pasteurize"
    
    "einsteinium"
    
    "ferris wheel"  [Capitalization is preferred, but not required.]
    

Ferris is a name?  Oh!  I thought a ferris wheel was a six membered ring of 
+2 iron atoms.  Shows how much I know.

    .1 is on target.  Keep those cards and letters coming in!
    
    (Ferrous wheel?  Is that like the ring which Joe Benzine invented?)

    One can gerrymander a voting district, fire a gat, or prune
    forsythia.
    							Ann B.

    
    Alphabetically, a few examples:
    
       bowlderize, v.t., to expurgate (as a book) by omitting
           or modifying parts considered vulgar. From Dr. Thomas
           Bowlder, who published censored versions of Shakespeare
           and The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire
    
       boycott, v.t., to abstain from using, buying, or dealing 
           with as a protest or means of coercion. From Capt.
           Charles C. Boycott, actually the first victim of a
           "boycott" organized by Charles Parnell.
    
       diesel (engine), n., an internal combustion engine that
           uses the heat of highly compressed air to ignite a
           spray of fuel introduced after the start of the
           compression stroke. Invented by Rudolph Diesel.
    
       guillotine, n. a machine for beheading by means of a heavy
           blade that slides down vertical guides. Invented by
           Dr. Joseph Ignace Guillotin.
    
       leotard, n., a close-fitting garment usually with long
           sleeves, high neck, and ankle-length legs worn for
           practice or performance by dancers, acrobats, or
           aerialists. Developed by Jules Leotard, a 19th
           century French acrobat.
    
       lynch, v.t., to put to death by mob action without legal
           sanction. Named for Judge William Lynch of Virginia.
    
       nicotine, n., a poisonous alkaloid, 
    
                  C H NC H NCH
                   4 4  4 7   3
    
           derived from tobacco. Discovered by Jean Nicot,
           a French biochemist.
    
       pants, n., trousers. Short for pantaloons. Named for
           St. Pantaleon, whose part in 15th-century Italian
           comedies was played by a buffoon in long trousers,
           considered comical by a culture used to wearing
           knickers.
    
       silhouette, n., a representation of the outline of
           an object, usually filled in with black or another
           solid color. Named for M. Etienne de Silhouette,
           Controller-General of France during the Seven Years'
           War.
    
       sandwich, n., a meal made from meat or cheese between
           two slices of bread. Named for the Earl of Sandwich
           who devised it as a means of eating while gambling
           and playing billiards.
    

    Ahem; it's "bowdlerize" and Bowdler".
    I was able to fowler the following:
    bloomers,
    brougham,
    cardigan,
    derby (as "horse race"),
    derrick, which I mentioned in a previous note,
    doily,
    galvanize,
    greengage,
    hansom,
    macadam,
    macintosh,
    mae west (life preserver),
    mansard,
    mesmerize,
    shrapnel,
    spoonerism, and
    wellington.
    
     I shall forego the definitions because I'm getting a lot of
    funny squiggles through my untrusty DF03. I suppose some people
    will claim it's unfair to look these things up, but hey, that's
    the kind of guy I am.
     Who was this "Prune" person?
    
    -John

    There's malapropism, after Mrs. Malaprop in Sheridan's "The Rivals".
    
    Jeff.

    postpischel
    

    Sorry, that was a bit callased, wasn't it?
    
    	Jon

    It almost borders on sadism (Marquis du Sade).

    Re .8:
    
    At least spell it correctly.  Don't you have enough samples?
    
    
    				-- edp

    Re .8, .10:
    
                  Is it a noun, a verb, an adjective, or some
    other part of speech?  What is its definition?
    
    
    
    
    
    

    re .8 .10, .11
    
    I think it's an interjection.

    A thousand pardons, Sentient. I put it in my DECspell dictionary so
    that won't happen again (it is to be hoped). 

    	Jon

    How about product names that become common words? 
    
    It always bothered me that even if Curad makes 'em, people still
    call 'em band-aids.
    
    Even if Royal makes it, people still call it jello.
    
    Even if Modess makes 'em *some* people still call 'em...
    
    Well, you get the picture - I'll skip the thousand words! 
    
    Sandy
    
    ps: I just found this notesfile.  Joyoflex sounds like some kind
    of erotic exercise equipment as in "Meet me at my place at 8 and
    DON'T forget the Joyo-Flex!" ;-)

    re: .8, .10, .15
    
    Excuse me for being *priggish* (was there a Mr. Prig?)
    but even edp would have to agree (as he has so argued many times)
    that it is wrong to invent a word to express something for which
    many OTHER words already exist! :-)
    
    MP

    Re: .14
    
    The original usage of aspirin was in the trade name Bayer Aspirin.
    
    Likewise, only Kimberly-Clark makes Kleenex.
    
    The Coca-Cola people have gone to great lengths, including lawsuits,
    to prevent restaurants from dispensing any other cola drink when
    a customer asks for "a Coke".
    

    Refering back to .0
    
    > A sure sign of fame or infamy is having one's name become part
    > of the language, in lower case.  It's one thing to refer to someone
    > as a proper noun, but when you've become a plain old word, you've
    > made it into the language, in any part of speech.
    
    Does that mean that _edp_ is just a plain old word?
    
    If so:  Was it by design?
            Is it a sign of *fame* or of *infamy*?
            How do you pronounce it?

    
    On the subject of trade names...
    
             One of the early winners of the Indianapolis 500
     was a French auto designer named Gaston Chevrolet.
    
             Pontiac autos are named after the Pontiac Indian tribe.
    
             Likewise, Naragansett beer is named after the
    Naragansett Indian tribe.
    

In England, they often say "I'm going to Hoover the rug."

    As was indicated in .16 and back some trade names become the name of
    the product, to the horror of the manufacturer.  These names now
    pass into "public domain", and anyone can use them.  Some examples:
    
    aspirin (which is still a trademark in Germany, but nowhere else)
    
    Kodak (as in camera, but the term isn't used so loosely anymore)
    
    Monopoly, based on a recent lawsuit
    
    That's why companes fight so hard to prevent their name from becoming
    TOO closely associated with the product.

    Re: .16, .20
    
    I believe that "aspirin" is still a trade name in Canada as well.
    I remember reading an article in McLean's where they reported on
    some U.S. government decision on "aspirin", which they quoted as
    such but then qualified their quote (presumably to avoid legal trouble)
    by explaining that the word is a trade name in Canada but not in
    the U.S.
    
    Re: .18
    
    I must have missed something in your note.  Chevrolet, Pontiac,
    and Narragansett are all trade names that come from proper names
    and that haven't passed into the language as general terms that
    you can write without capitalizing them.  So?

    Another trade name: the verb, xerox
    
    On the sbject of peoples' proper names becoming "household words",
    what about "lazy susan"?
    
    Susan

    re .5:
    
    Sorry this is a bit late, but I feel I ought to point out that "diesel"
    is the name of a type of compression-ignition engine that was invented
    by Ackroyd-Stuart (and Englishman).  Diesel came along several years
    later, built one that didn't work terribly well, and stimulated
    interest in Ackroyd-Stuart's design.  Sigh.  The story of English
    invention.
    
    	John
    

    re .24:
    
    In this case I think we should be happy that the engine received
    the wrong name. Image going to the filling station and asking for
    10 gallons of "Ackroyd-Stuart"...
    
    Rien.
    

    Did the Wankel (sp??) engine design ever make it to lower case?
    

Re .18:  Chevrolet was SWISS, not French.  In fact, the "conference"
on Switzerland,  XANADU::HELVETICA  (press KP7 to add it to your 
current "class", if you're interested), could usefully have a topic on
Swiss abroad, but it doesn't, yet.  For example, one of the big
19th-century New York bridges was built by Ammann, also Swiss. 

Gabriel.

    Re .27: You mean there really WAS a Gaston Chevrolet? Well, that
    clears up a lot of things. I had always assumed it was another
    of those acronyms like all the other car names (e.g. FORD for
    Found On Road Dead, FIAT for Fix It Again, Tony, PONTIAC for
    Poor Old Nebbish Thinks It's A Cadillac, etc.), but I could never
    figure out what it stood for.
    
    -John

    Re .28:
    
            And BMW => Break My Window
    
    
    
    
    

    
    and (sniff) SAAB - Suckers Are American Born - no doubt reflecting
    that fact that well over 50% of saab sales are to the US, and that
    of those sold, most are turbos of one form or another.....
    
    BUT, i love it!!

    
    Then there are the airlines --
    
    TWA  Try Walking Across
    TAP  Take Another Plane (... another plane (... another plane (...)))
    
    -

    Allegheny Ailines - AGONY AIR, which then changed it's name to
    USAIR - now known as USELESS AIR, having merged with Mohawk, itself
    a truly sad excuse for an airline.

    I think "kleenex" is commoner than "facial tissue" as a name for
    those flimsy sheets of paper.  Isn't "jeep" a trade name too?
    
    Earl Wajenberg

Re: .-2

I have heard the airline called "U.S. Scare".

(Back to the topic):
Also, scotch tape, yo-yo, frisbee, and from our (grand)parents' time,
brownie (camera), and victrola (record player).

    I vaguely remember a story several years back that Kleenex narrowly
    missed being declared public domain.  <SWAG> I think the only reason they
    won was that the whole division was named "Kleenex", not just the
    product.

    "Jeep" might be a trade name, because I've never seen anyone else
    use the name; however, its origin (or legality?) is suspect because
    the word came from the WWII term "G.P." (general-purpose vehicle).

    Approaching lowercase -- Einstein
    
    Meaning: "genius, highly intelligent person"
    
    Example: "Ya don't gotta be an Einstein to know that."
    
    When the example reads:  "...an einstein", then the transformation
    will be complete.
    
    					andrew
    

    re .32, .34
    
    Wasn't it Agony Scare-lines?

    -paul (Who was Scared more than twice!)

    
    What about people who put their 'john hancock' on the bottom
    of various documents?

    - chuck

    re .30: I always thought turbos were blowers, not suckers.
    re .31: and Alitalia, "All landed in Turin, all luggage in
    	Athens"
    
    	John
    

    Re: .39
    
    > I always thought turbos were blowers, not suckers.
    
    What goes out must be sucked if from somewhere!

    actually, they do both at the same time.  just depends on which
    way you're viewing the problem - upstream or downstream....

    re .32, .34...
    
    There used to be an airline, Air Illinois, that was called Scare
    Illinois.  The last I heard of it, though, was a rather nasty crash
    near Carbondale...
    
    Susan

    Re: .31
    
    SABENA - Such A Bloody Experience, Never Again
    
    Dave

    When I and my colleagues in DC had to fly US Air a lot we first
    started calling it Useless Air and then Purposeless Air. Then I
    started calling it Existential Air with the slogan, "Every flight
    is like being in a Sartre play."
    
    	Jon

    There is the no-frills cheapo airline that I have irately dubbed
    "Feeble Express."
    
    ESW

    Then there's the Metropolitan Boston Transit Authority, the MBTA;
    which is also known as the "Make-Believe Transit System".

re: .45, .46, etc.

I've also heard the carrier referred to as
"Cattle Express"; I've never had the (mis)fortune
to travel that way.

     I don't believe anyone has yet mentioned "bogart", as in
    "Don't bogart that joint, my friend, pass it over to me."
    
    -John

    In the YouKay there's a term, "beavering away", derived from Sir
    John Beaver, the man Queen Victoria dubbed "the hardest working
    Viscount in the Empire".
    
    karl moeller

    SF writer Larry Niven has occasionally used, in his stories, the
    word "proxmire" to mean roughly, "to kill an idea or project".
    
    --- jerry

After Samuel Maverick (1803-70)

In the early days of the open range in Texas, a yearling calf 
belonged to any man who could rope and brand it.  Soon, to 
protect the four-footed property, 5000 brands -- initials, 
numerals and emblems -- were registered.  Samuel Maverick, who 
refused to brand his calves, lost a lot of cattle but gave his 
name to the language as a synonym for a nonconformist.
	"The LIFE History of the United States", Vol 7, p 56.

Logs in the Northwest, like cattle in the Southwest, were branded 
with a wide variety of symbols -- including water spigots -- for 
many lumber firms floated their timber on the same river. Down-
stream, sorters separated logs according to their owners and, as
with unbranded cattle, any maverick log belonged to the sawmill
that got it. 
	"The LIFE History of the United States", Vol 7, p 57.

Bill Tweed dreamed of an old master -- Samuel Swartwout, who
stole a million dollars in government money and got clean away to
Europe in 1837.  This impressed Tweed, for Sam's name came to be 
used as a verb; "to swartwout" meant to defraud grandly.  And Big
Bill, once he became Grand Sachem of Tammany Hall and boss of New
York City, knew how to swartwout.  He paid a carpenter $360,747.61 
for a month's work and a plasterer $2,870,464.06 for nine months;
most of this found it way back into the pockets of Tweed and his
friends. 

	- "The LIFE History of the United States", Vol 7, p 21. 

    Airlines: Command Airlines used to be affectionately known as Crash
    and Burn. Partly because the Poughkeepsie, NY airport which it serviced
    is bordered on one end by a cemetery.
    
    My family name has been decapitalized. It is given to a Bridge hand
    holding no honor cards, i.e. no card above a 9-spot.
    
    Lynn Yarbrough (originally Yarborough)

    There's an article about eponyms in September's "Smithsonian". It
    mentions a good many of the names that have appeared in previous
    replies, and adds a few more.
    
    It also lists some nominations for new eponyms; "Edsel", for example,
    to mean "a commercial disaster". These haven't achieved lower-case
    status yet, but they may.
    
    Still farther fetched are the suggestions to use "cronkite", after
    the famed news anchorman, to refer to a "heavy-duty anchor, immobile
    in the fiercest storms". And Kurt Vonnegut supposedly suggested
    the term "stowe", after Harriet Beecher Stowe, to be used to indicate
    "units of socially useful activity".
    
    Any other suggestions?
    
    -b

    I've seen at least one review of ALIENS that mentions Ripley
    "rambo-ing" the aliens.
    
    --- jerry

    This is really a chicken or the egg item, isn't it!  But it was
    the ship that made the adjective popular.
    						RMM
    

   Unfortunately, I have a brother named John (more unfortunate for
    him than me).  In the dictionary, john means "A toilet" or
    "prostitute's client."  I'd hate to meet the John that caused all
    of that!
    
    I also looked up ace as in Ace bandage.  There was no origin for
    Ace, but the definition above that was for AC/DC.  In my Webster's
    Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary, copyright, 1984, the definition
    reads:
    
    "the likening of a bisexual person to an electrical appliance which
    can operate on either alternating or direct current"
    
    While this is amusing in itself, I thought it was even more amusing
    that they neglected to mention that AC/DC was an electrical appliance
    which can operate on either alternating or direct current.

    						red 
    
    

    re .58:
    
    I don't think that AC/DC is ever used to refer to an appliance that
    can operate off either type of current.
                                                   
                  /
                 (  ___
                  ) ///
                 /
    

re .59:

It was - certain tube-type radios and TVs were designed without a power
transformer and a polarized plug so it would work on DC.  Also some other
devices that were heaters only (like a toaster) were marked AC/DC as well since
it didn't matter to heaters.

I have no idea where DC power was available.

-Mike

    .58 defines "AC/DC" as "an electrical appliance . . .".  My guess is
    "AC/DC" was probably used as an adjective, not a noun, so it would
    describe a device that could operate with AC or DC.  For this usage,
    "AC/DC" does not need a definition -- it is a normal formation from the
    noun phrase usages of AC and DC.  E.g., we may refer to a "newspaper
    reporter", but the dictionary does not have an entry for "newspaper" as
    an adjective because this is a normal usage of a noun as an adjective.
    "AC/DC" may be the same way for ordinary usage, but its evolved usage
    for a bisexual needs to be recorded in a dictionary. 
    
    
    				-- edp 

Residential DC power was present in some old inner-city neighborhoods
until the mid-50's in the USA (and the mid to late '60's in parts of
Europe).  These were houses that were connected to the very first
generators.  Also, before the US electrical grid was completed (in the
1930's), many isolated farms used wind+battery power.

Martin.

    Re .60, ff:
    
    DC was available for a long time in New York City.  Indeed, as late
    as 1957 some buildings in Columbia University had both AC and DC
    circuits (I almost ruined a tape recorder by plugging it into a
    DC wall plug by mistake.
    
    Some of the old radios were billed as AC/DC/Battery.  God knows
    what they thought batteries were putting out!  (Actually, the AC/DC
    implied ~110V, where batteries were 1.5, 6, and/or 12V.)
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    re .59
    
    "............appliance that can operate off either type of current."
                                            ^^^
    
    My appliances aren't operating when they're "off".

    < Note 201.47 by EVER::MCVAY "Pete McVay" >
                          -< Moving to the Ground... >-

>    Then there's the Metropolitan Boston Transit Authority, the MBTA;
>    which is also known as the "Make-Believe Transit System".

 
    I always thought it was the "More Breakdowns Transit Atriocity"
    
    (Actually, it is the Metropolitan Bay Transit Authority.)
    
    

    re:.65
    
    > (Actually, it is the Metropolitan Bay Transit Authority.)
    
    Actually, it's the Massachusetts Bay Transit Authority.
    
    --- jerry

    Re .5: Jean Nicot (~1530-1600) was a French diplomat, not biochemist.
    Tobacco was brought from America under the name "herbe � Nicot".
    
    Masochism (from L. von Sacher-Masoch)
    and obviously, watt, ampere, volt, gauss, etc.
    
    John.
    
    PS: According to Dave Barry, the Diesel engine is named after its
    inventor, Rudolf Engine.

    re: .67 
    
    Nicot was both diplomat and biochemist.
    
    --bonnie

    Yes, in the days before the diplomats' union, people didn't have to be
    merely diplomats; they could have more than one career. In these
    enlightened days, of course, we don't let our public servants do other
    things, as they might think about them when they should be doing their
    job. 
    
    	Jon

Re .68 (--bonnie)

Biochemistry in the 17th century?  People still believed in phlogistics,
and jailed Galileo at that time. Perhaps alchemist would be a better word.

John.

    Yes, biochemistry in the 17th century -- they were very good at
    deriving poisons, medications, dyes, and other useful chemicals
    from plants. 
    
    And botany, and anatomy, and physics, and optics, and mechanics,
    and hydraulics, and a lot of other applied sciences. 
    
    I doubt that Nicot would have considered himself an alchemist,
    since alchemy involved philosophy and metaphysics.
    
    --bonnie 

    Phlogiston didn't become popular for another two centuries or there
    abouts. Sir Humphrey Davy was a fan of phlogiston, and for some very
    good reasons. 

    	Jon

    Re .63
    
    > Some of the old radios were billed as AC/DC/Battery.  God knows
    > what they thought batteries were putting out!  (Actually, the AC/DC
    > implied ~110V, where batteries were 1.5, 6, and/or 12V.)
    
    I think I still own a 90V battery, though it is no doubt "dead"
    by now.  (It's only about 25 years old.  Wonder if it's a collector's
    item yet?)

    Re .??
    
    A postperson is a deliverer of letters.  A postpichel is a deliverer
    of notes.
    
    Re .73
    
    Remember all the digital equipment manufacturers.  And diamond cutters.
    And the case statement, courtesy of the software engineering department
    at Case Western Reserve University.

    Re .73:
    
    >> Some of the old radios were billed as AC/DC/Battery.  God knows
    >> what they thought batteries were putting out!  (Actually, the AC/DC
    >> implied ~110V, where batteries were 1.5, 6, and/or 12V.)
    >
    >I think I still own a 90V battery, though it is no doubt "dead"
    >by now.  (It's only about 25 years old.  Wonder if it's a collector's
    >item yet?)
     
    Most "portable" radios either used 1.5 6 or 12 volts and/or 45,
    67.5, or 90 volts.  Sometimes the filament and plate batteries were
    put in a single package and sold as a unit (I have an old Zenith
    "Wavemagnet" portable that used a single pack).
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    In the U.S., prostitutes are often called "hookers".  Named after the
    women camp followers encouraged by our own (Massachusetts) General
    Hooker during the civil war.  BTW his statue stands outside the Mass.
    State House, although I understand he had an otherwise undistinguished
    career.
    
    
    

    >(Massachusetts) General Hooker
    
    Ancestor of Ted Kennedy?
    
    
    
    [Disclaimer:  This is intended to disparage only Ted Kennedy, not all
    Massachusans and Massachusettes -- just so we don't get a repeat of
    the complaints about Saddam Hussein jokes....]

>    In the U.S., prostitutes are often called "hookers".  Named after the
>    women camp followers encouraged by our own (Massachusetts) General
>    Hooker during the civil war.  BTW his statue stands outside the Mass.
>    State House, although I understand he had an otherwise undistinguished
>    career.
    
 	I hate to break this to you, but I'm afraid that's not the true
	etymology.  It's a nice story, but ...  Prostitutes became known
	as hookers because that's how they used to accost potential
    	customers in the street -- they would "hook" them (that is, hook
	their arm in theirs).  Sorry,

		-- The Etymology Police

    
    A hooker is also an old-style Irish fishing boat.  I was unaware that
    there is something of a revival going on about this boat's construction 
    and traditional use. That's why my jaw really dropped when a Galway
    shopkeeper told me not to miss the weekend's Hooker Festival.
    
    JP
    

what about caesar, as in caesar salad, caesarean section....

-angela

    	Thanks to a Christmas present I may be able to add information
    here, though I am sceptical about some of the details in the book. It
    gives an alphabetical list of words, and for each word included it
    gives a potted biography of the person. Some of them sound quite
    convincing, but reading the dates closely I don't believe that Mr.
    Duffel (inventor of the duffel coat) became a purser in the Royal Navy
    a year before he was born.
    
    	Information about Wimple and Awning later, to say nothing of  
    Mr. Wink.

    O Joy!  O Rapture!
    
    Anxiously awaiting the bio of Epiphelia Olivia Nymous,
    
    I remain, Sir, 
    
    Your ob't svt.
    
    Dan :-)
    

	All of the following people are in there, with maybe 20 or more lines
of biography for each. The author, James Cochrane, says he has included one
bogus (q.v.) biography to prevent plagiarism of his work by dictionary makers,
but there were more than that that I felt a little sceptical about. I obviously
cannot type in his whole book, but I could try a few on request that seem
particularly interesting. *I* would be very interested if there are any of the
following that has a high probability of not being derived from a person's
name. The author claims that none of these people are given just credit in any
dictionary he has checked. The book is called "Stipple, Wink & Gusset" and has
an ISBN 0 7126 55735.

Akimbo
Asphalt
Avocado
Awning
Bigot
Binge
Boater
Bogus
Bollard
Botch
Boudoir
Buffet (similar story to Sandwich, but French)
Bugle
Cabaret
Cabriolet
Cami (as in camiknickers)
Carburetto
Carousel
Cartel
Chassis
Coffin
Comma
Corset
Culvert
Curry
Debris
Denim (the Oxford dictionary claims it is Fr. "serge de N�mes")
Derrick
Diaper
Doggerel
Doldrum
Dudgeon
Duffel
Easel
Fiasco
Firkin
Furlong
Furlough
Gadget
Galosh
Gasket
Gingham
Gusset
Haberdasher
Hammock
Haversack
Hoarding
Hoist
Holster
Humdinger
Ketchup
Kiosk
Lacrosse
Lager
Lambast
Latrine
Lobby
Mangle
Marmelado (a Portuguese innkeeper who tried to serve orange jam with sardines)
Marzipan
Mascot
Morgue
Motto
Moustache
Natty
Niblick
Nugget
Parquet
Pilchard
Pillory
Pocket
Poltroon
Ransack
Ricochet
Rink
Salon
Sandal
Satchel
Scaffold
Somersault
Stipple (an American painter)
Strangle
Swivel
Toup�e
Trigger
Trolley
Trowser
Truncheon
Vertigo
Walkman
Wink (Frederik von, Bavarian ambassador to George III)
    

    I'll look further into these, but akimbo is not derived from the name of
    a person.  Period.  Despite its strange sound, it is almost unchanged
    from Middle English, in kenebowe, where kene means acute (as in
    keen=sharp) and bowe means angle (as in elbow).  In other words, "with
    arms akimbo" means nothing more than "with arms at a sharp angle".

    "Asphalt"?  Shouldn't that be "macadam"?
    
    							Ann B.

    The author is in no danger of having his work stolen by dictionaries. 
    This book is a hoax.
    
    Here are the ones that I know are wrong, in most cases without even
    looking them up:
    
    	akimbo -- see above.
    
    	bugle -- buculus is buffalo, bugle is horn made from buffalo horn.
    	I looked this one up.
    
    	cami -- short for camisole which is obviously derived from camisa,
    	shirt, in Spanish.
    
    	denim -- fabric de Nimes, from Nime.  Jean means fabric from Genoa,
    	by the way, and dungaree is an Indian word for durable cotton
    	twill.
    
    	furlong - The length of a furrow.  This, like some of the others,
    	*is* a family name, but on my own say-so I declare that the
    	derivation I give preceded the family name.  I know a guy named
    	Rainwater, but he didn't invent the wet stuff coming down from the
    	sky.
    
    	fiasco -- Italian glassblower's term, same root as flask, means
    	something you throw back in the pot to be remelted.
    
    	haversack -- sack for carrying havers, that is, oats.  I looked
    	this up a while back when I was trying to figure out the difference
    	between a knapsack and a haversack.  The difference is that a
    	haversack, strictly speaking, has only one strap, while a knapsack has
    	two.  The haversack being used to harvest and the knapsack to haul.
    
    	ketchup -- Vietnamese word.  Only one in the English language that 
    	I know of.  It means "sauce".
    
    	lacrosse -- so called because the stick resembles a bishop's
    	crozier, the "shepherd's stick" thing that bishops carry.
    
    	marzipan -- almond "bread", which is "pan" in Spanish.
    
    	stipple -- interesting that the Latin word for "press" is
    	"stipare".  Also interesting that there is no Stipple, Am. Artist,
    	listed in W9NCD.  Yep, looked this one up.
    
    Also suspicious is the lack of words that *do* come from people's
    names, boycott and shrapnel to name just two.
    
    
    	

Let's go down the list debunking them until we find one that's really
attributed to a person's name.  I've deleted those for which the derivation
is uncertain according to W9NCD, and I've added information to a few of the
W9NCD etymologies.

Akimbo - see .83
Asphalt - Late Latin asphaltus, from Greek asphaltos
Avocado - Spanish aguacate, from Nahuatl ahuacatl, testicle
Bigot - Mediaeval French, bigot, a hypocrite
Boater - a stiff straw hat commonly used by boaters in Renaissance England
Bollard - British naval slang from bole, the trunk of a tree
Boudoir - from French bouder, to pout
Bugle - from Latin buculus, diminutive of bos, a cow.
Cabriolet - from French cabriole, a caper, from Mediaeval French capriole
Cami (as in camiknickers) - see .85
Carburetto (carburetor??) - chemists' term carburet, to combine with carbon
Carousel - Italian carosello, no further info given
Cartel - Old Italian cartella, a placard
Chassis - assumed from Latin capsicum, from capsa, a box
Coffin - from Latin cophinus, a basket
Comma - Greek komma, a segment, from koptein, to cut
Corset - from old French cors, from Latin corpus, a body
Curry - Tamil-Malayan kari
Debris - French d�bris, from Mediaeval French debriser, to break into pieces
Derrick - here we find the first real one, Derick a 17th-century hangman

    So what we're saying here, bottom line, is that this fella got hundreds
    of refugees from 1007.* published!
    
    I weep for Miss Epiphelia O. Nymous, who would now seem never to have
    been borne.  But then again, since she is after all amongst the
    MISSing, perhaps 'twas she who, in passing, originally bequeath�d her
    title, that mere shadow of the full effulgence of her eponymousossity,
    to our Mother Tongue.
    
    RIP.
    
    

    	>ketchup -- Vietnamese word.  Only one in the English language that 
    	>I know of.  It means "sauce".
    
    Only if you have some reason to regard it as specifically Vietnamese.
    The Malay/Indonesian word is "kecap" (same pronunciation, same meaning).
    Many fruits have names used internationally as well.  Are "rambutan",
    "mango", "durian", "papaya", etc., regarded as English words?
    
    It was also amusing to see "walkman" on the original list.
    
    And of course, one word on the original list was most obviously bogus :-)

    	Bogus, Harold, aka Charles Edward Stewart, aka George Bonaparte,
    aka Maximilian Sneed, etc. c1790-?  It is not known where or when
    Harold Bogus was born, or indeed whether that was his real name. He is
    first recorded on Mississippi river-boats in the 1820s, offering for
    sale (and more than once selling) a machine for converting cabbage
    leaves into banknotes. Frequently arrested, he rarely spent more than a
    few hours in gaol, having bought his way out with a bundle of what
    later proved to be counterfeit bills. In later years, when even the
    gullible became wary of Bogus machines and Bogus notes, he changed his
    name and his business methods, at one time selling the Mexican National
    Debt to a group of bankers in Charleston. He was last sighted in 1862,
    posing as Papal Nuncio to the government of the Confederacy under the
    name of Balthazar de Castiglione, and it is not known what role he may
    have played in history after that date.
    
    	One is beginning to suspect that, where the foreword claims there
    is one Bogus entry while all the others are correct, that it might be
    exactly the other way round. If I have time I will type in the
    biography of Oscar Denim (1838-1899), or should all of this be moved to
    the other string?

    Imho, any more entries from that "dictionary" that you would like to
    share with us belong here, rather than 1007.*; this is, I believe, a
    lovely subgenre thereof, and is, and by rights ought to be, a free and
    independent state.
    
    And to legitimize this particular entry, may I include a bogus quote
    from a notable solo musician:  
    
    "I am so grateful to Bela Bartok for allowing me to continue my career
    after being so grievously injured during the Great War, by composing
    his masterful 'Concerto for the Left Hand,' said Brian, monohandedly."
                                                                          

    .90
    
    DrDan, you missed the opportunity by a mile.  Permit an emendation to
    your bogus quote:
    
    "I am so grateful to Bela Bartok for allowing me to continue my career
    after being so grievously injured during the Great War, by composing
    his masterful 'Concerto for the Left Hand,' said Brian, offhandedly."
    
    But it wasn't Bart�k weho composed the Concerto for the Left Hand.  It
    was Ravel.

    RE: a few back;
    
    Last time I ate in my friend's Dutch/Indonesian restaurant, the
    condiment bottle was labelled "Ketjap" and contained a thick, sweet Soy
    sauce (made in Indonesia).
    
    \dave

    ... and I thank you for slightly reducing the bogosity of my quote. 
    Such an egregious error in musical historiography would NEVER have
    passed muster in the book that we're currently drubbing.  However, I
    fear that you just may have missed the point of my jape -- I was
    punning lamely (yet Swiftily) on the name of Brian Monahan, who was
    responsible for this latest punflurry.  Just desserts, methought, when
    here you come barging in to convert my MonOhanDED pun into a generic
    Swifty.  I would weep, if this were my actual calling in life; but
    since we'se all just here fer fun, wot-the-heck!!???!! :-)
                                               
    But watch yerself in future, lest yer own patronymic be patronized.
    
    D

    Hoist, Samuel c.1535-1599  English pioneer-sergeant, who fought mainly
    in the Low Countries and there developed tackle for lifting and moving
    siege equipment, including the heavy mines known as petards which were
    used to breach walls. Hoist's devices were not regarded as particularly
    reliable by his fellow-pioneers, who tended to keep out of the way when
    he was handling explosives. The cry, 'There goes Hoist with his own
    petard' was often heard around the English siege-lines, and before long
    entered the language, though few understood what it meant.
    
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    	For many of the famous men and women in this book there are
    contemporary illustrations depicting them in typical situations or
    attitudes, and here there is a woodcut entitled "Hoist receives medical
    attention after an accident with explosives".

    Fracas, Cl�ment c.1787-1823  French pugilist, who achieved his fame by
    random violence on the streets of Lyons.  Long thought to be suffering
    from some sort of brain impairment, Fracas was wont to attack even
    frail clerics in the dusk with the light behind them.  After a time,
    many sorts of urban dust-ups became inevitably associated in the public
    mind with M. Fracas, to the point that after his death (by stoning,
    paid for by general subscription (100 Francs per stone, as proposed by
    Mlle. Zenna Henderson, the proceeds of which were used to buy
    Madeleines for all aspiring writers)), all general fisticuffs were
    placed under the general rubric established by "Cl�ment Fracas, the Mad
    Dog of Lyons."
    

    Rubric, Hercule c. 1880-1917  French military genius.  His wild talent
    for perceiving the similarities between highly disparate concepts
    advanced the Paris War College's preparedness for the Great Conflict
    with "les Boches."   He received a field promotion to the General Staff
    after the Battle of Saint-Exupery, which thenceforth resulted in all of
    his public utterances being credited to "le G�n�ral Rubric," whence it
    was only a short slaunchwise step to linguistic immortality.
     

    	Since all of the last few have been male here is a femininist one.
    
    Satchell, Emily 1834-1905 American poetess and early femininist, born
    in Boston. Though her poetry was admired by Henry James and her
    correspondance with the early English femininist movement has been
    preserved, she is now remembered chiefly for her contributions to the
    subject of what was then known as 'rational dress', in particular the
    simple purse or handbag that bears her name. She was the co-founder in
    1883 of the Ladies' League of Self-Defence. She lived in Paris from
    1890 until her death. Picasso painted her (Femme avec sac � main) and
    described her in one of his letters as 'cette femme insupportable'.
    
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    	There is a picture showing heavily clad women, each wielding a pair
    of dumb-bells. From the style I would guess it to be a cartoon taken 
    from an edition of the Punch magazine from around 1890. The title is
    obviously "The Ladies' League of Self-Defence".

    Re .97: Miss Satchell's notice was certainly inspired to the author by
    the real case of Miss Bloomer, a known American feminist of the late
    19th century, but mostly remembered for the underwear she invented.
    			Denis.

	Since Dan has started contributions that don't appear in The Book, I
thought I would add a place rather than a person.

Condom is a small town in south west France (check it on the map) which had the
luck to be on a major pilgrimage route to Lourdes. As a convenient stopping
place for the night its inns were quite popular. However the town council 
decided that Condom could become a Total Service Provider for pilgrims. 
They started selling postcards of Lourdes, they started selling bottles of holy
water for those who didn't want to travel any further (or had dropped theirs on
the way back). They changed the town motto to:
"If you want to be served, be in Condom at night" (rough translation from the
original langue d'oc).

Now pilgrims, as you know from Chaucer, are often a bawdy lot, many of them
away from spouses for a while, forming new friendships on the journey,...

The rest is history.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe Denis could add some details here.
    

    Re .99: Dave, there's only one detail that I can add: It is that the
    pilgrimage in question was not Lourdes. Lourdes started only in the
    late 19th century, or even maybe early 20th, I don't recall the date
    exactly, after Bernadette Soubirous had visions of the Holy Virgin
    there. The use of the word Condom for prophylactics is much older than
    that (by several centuries) and indeed comes from the town of Condom.
    The pilgrimage must have been that of Santiago de Compostella in
    North-Western Spain, which was one of the four great christian
    pilgrimages in the middle age (Jerusalem, Roma, Santiago and I think,
    but am not sure, that the last one was Rocamadour in the South-West of
    France). The story as I knew it was that the town was well known for
    the manufacturing of prophylactics because in the middle age there were
    big convents, both for men and women, in the town, and that
    communications between the two types of convents were not unfrequent,
    to say the least, hence the need of a way to avoid the most obvious
    consequences... But your story about pilgrimages is about as likely as
    this one. Originally, condoms were made of very thin leather, but I've
    doubts about their practicality, given the fact that there must have
    been seams in them, which made the things one, not very comfortable and
    two, not very safe (leaks must have been frequent...). They might have
    used some kind of oil or fat to block the leaks and lubricate, but I
    keep my doubts.
    	BTW, Condom is also a big production center of another famous
    product: Armagnac.
    			Denis.
    

    I thought it was sheep intestine, not leather, so there's only one
    seam at the end.  Indeed, there's still a brand made from sheep
    intestine (Naturlamb? or some such name).  
    
    Personally, I hate fake etymologies.
    
    		-John Bishop

    I hate folk etymologies too.  
    
    These fakes, however, are not unamusing, however, they are
    unconvincing.  I got tricked last year by a book of fake
    news-of-the-weird stuff last fall.
    

    .102> however, they are unconvincing.
    
    Mine, at least, were not written so as to be taken as convincing.  Per
    the relevant sections of the Rules Of Engagement of 1007.*, which I
    have the honor to have written, one may in fact produce such entries in
    a frank, yet subtle, attempt to not be unamusing.
    
    Such is the general rubric under which I take shelter from this
    incipient fracas.
    
    :-)
    

    Lobby, Sir Thomas c.1540-1601  A former scullion, he rose to become
    Clerk of Works to the household of Queen Elizabeth I. In that role he
    was confronted by the problem that in the residences for which he was
    responsible all the sleeping chambers led directly from one to another,
    so that it was impossible to reach any room without passing through all
    the rooms preceding it. This led to many inconveniences, not the least
    of which was conducting assignations with any degree of discretion. As
    manners grew more polite in the course of the century, this situation
    was increasingly found to be intolerable. Thomas Lobby did much to
    alleviate the problem by taking every opportunity - whether building
    new palaces or renovating old ones - to have constructed a passage or
    corridor which allowed independent access to the sleeping rooms. (The
    considerable cost of this was off-set by selling three of the remaining
    English monasteries.) It is hard to over-estimate the social
    consequences of Lobby's innovation, which was before long copied in the
    larger private houses.

    O'Fleck, Joe E., 1984-    .  This young man is an inveterate punster
    and is bound to make a name for himself.  Caught in the net every
    working day are a wide range of fingers searching for the latest of
    Joe E. O'Fleck's.

    Re .99, .100, .101, .102: About fake etymologies, Dave Monahan will be
    able to explain it much better than I, but the town of Condom is indeed
    the true etymology for condoms. Dave put it here as a joke and I
    brought in what I knew on the subject. The funny thing is that the word
    condom is known but very little used with that meaning in French.
    Nowadays, the advertising for the anti-AIDS campains have given near
    total preeminence to the word "pr�servatif", but they are also known
    familiarly as "capotes" which is an emendation of "capotes anglaises".
    I think the last one makes a nice answer to the English "French
    letters"...
    			Denis.

	I hereby claim for Denis and myself the most successful double bluff
in the history of JOYOFLEX.

	The name and wares of the town of Condom were spread throughout Europe
by pilgrims returning from Compostella.

	When I started writing .99 I had decided to use a correct etymology,
just to see if anyone would detect it as such. However, when it came to the
place of pilgrimage I couldn't remember the name. Lourdes suggested itself, so
I checked in Larousse, and found a date of 1858. Obviously Lourdes was wrong,
but that was also approximately the date of the invention of the postcard, and
I had seen postcards of Lourdes on sale in the streets of Condom. A whole
line of anachronistic rubbish was suggested, which dictated both contents and
style of .99.  My appeal at the end to Denis was expecting that he could
correct my lapse of memory about the place of pilgrimage.

	With his encyclopaedic knowlege he not only reminded me of the correct
place of pilgrimage, but supplied a wealth of other detail, some of which I
knew, some of which I had forgotten along with the name of the shrine, and some
that I had never known. .99 gives a correct attribution, but all of the
information is in .100

	The replies have been most gratifying.
    
    
    	As a little evidence, they are nowhere mentioned in Rabelais. With
    three degrees in medicine, knowing more than half a dozen languages,
    and widely travelled, he would certainly have known of their existence
    if they had existed in Europe, and almost certainly would have mentioned 
    them in his books. This indicates strongly that they didn't exist in 
    his day.
    
    	Following a hint from Denis I found that de Sade, about 200 years
    later, writes of "un petit sac de peau de Venise vulgairement nomm�
    condom". The "peau de Venise" is the very fine leather that Denis
    mentions in .100.
    
    	So within a space of 200 years they turned up in France bearing a
    name that happens to be identical to a French town. There may be more
    evidence than this, but this is just the result of my own research.

    NSOED  Condom
    
    First usage of the word - early 18 century
    
    Origin - unknown

    Re .108: Origin unknown only means that the researcher for NSOED has
    not been able to find it. It doesn't mean that nobody knows it...
    For what it's worth, the reference in "Les instituteurs immoraux" by
    Sade that I pointed Dave to (I sure didn't expect him to find back the
    exact citation; I'm impressed by your reading, Dave :^)...) proves that
    the word was in use in French in the second half of the 18th century.
    Now, either it is a particularly old and tenacious urban legend in
    France, or the word does indeed come from the town name. I'll try to
    remember and check it in some French dictionnaries to see if they say
    the same as NSOED...
    			Denis.

    re condom
    
    A Norwegian dictionary claims that a "possible origin is the
    inventor, the Englishman Conton". 
    
    Henrik
    (who incidentally pilgrimaged to Santiago last summer)

    The Pharmacoepia for 1828 in the Wellcome Institute library has a
    detailed description of the manufacture of condoms from lamb's
    intestine.
    
    The process includes the chemical and mechanical processes for removal
    of the mucous membrane and 'tanning'.  It draws to a conclusion with
    the fact that it is turned inside out, inflated and cut to length.  One
    end is left open, obviously, the other is closed by being tightly tied
    with a piece of ribbon.

    "Well laddie, whatever happened, I'm proud that ye won First Prize..."
    

    re: .111
    	Is there no earlier reference in English?  If not, then since 
    de Sade was writing 40 or 50 years earlier that would point to a
    French origin for the word, even if it doesn't point directly to the
    town of Condom. Incicentally, my atlas gives two Condoms in France, but
    the second one is a tiny village, full name "Condom-something" and not
    on any major routes.

    The earliest English reference found by the NSOED people is at the
    start of the 18 century, i.e. between 1700 and 1729.
    
    I think that predates de Sade, doesn't it?  But it cannot eliminate a
    French origin.

Fran�ois Rabelais, 1483-1553 son of Antoine Rabelais, lawyer.

Church career:
	Became a monk at the age of 17, first with the Franciscans and later
	with the Benedictines. In 1536 he was canon of the chapter of 
	St. Maur. Towards the end of his life he was priest for two parishes.

Academic and Medical career:
	Studied at Orleans, Paris, and finaly Montpellier. Montpellier was the
	centre for medical research in Europe, and he obtained a bachelor 
	degree in medicine. He returned there several times for Licenciate 
	and then Doctorate of medicine, but his immediate move was to the 
	hospital at Lyon. His medical carreer was split between this hospital, 
	periods as private doctor to the du Bellay family, and Montpellier 
	where he sometimes taught. He had an insatiable curiosity, and
	performed a contrversial human dissection; and when he casually
	mentions in his books that the sweat of patients in a fever tastes
	just as salty as that of normal people you can believe he tried it.

Literary career:
	He wrote his second book (Pantagruel) first, and it was published
	in 1532. His first book (Gargantua) was published in 1534. His third
	book (le Tiers Livre) was published in 1546, and his fourth book
	(le Quart Livre) in 1552. All of them were banned by the French
	authorities. There is a fifth book of contested authorship that was
	published after his death. His books show that he knew Latin, Greek,
	Hebrew, German, Italian, Basque, Dutch, Spanish and Danish, apart from
	his native French.

Miscellaneous:
	He had three children, Fran�ois, Junie and Th�odule. For a time he was
	in the civil guard in Lyon. From 1546-1547 he was town clerk of Metz.
	Being in clerical orders he never married.
    

    	If you insist on looking for alternative explanations for "condom"
    then in French, "con"+"d�me", but you would have to be German to
    concatenate words that way ;-)  I still believe the town is correct.

    Aw, c'mon, folks, if it's French it surely must have come from the
    Latin.  I propose condomo/-are, from com-/con-, together/with, and
    domo/-are, to break in/master.

     Re: .113

>                   Incidentally, my atlas gives two Condoms in France, but

     May I suggest you change your atlas? I think that it has some distorted
     information. Many a Frenchman would take it as a personal insult the
     statement that in the whole of France, the land of "l'amour", there
     are only two condoms!!!

     A votre service,

     Juan-Carlos Kiel

    Re the etymology of condom: While in a library yesterday, I took
    advantage of the opportunity to check about a dozen dictionnaries and
    encyclopaedias (including an English one, the Britannica) to see what
    they had to say about the origin of the term. More than half of them
    mentionned an origin, always the same, that is, the name seems to come
    from the name of an early 18th century English hygienist who supposedly
    invented it. But most of those that mentionned the origin were carefull
    to add that there are many different stories circulating about the
    origin and that this one was only one of them. Interestingly enough, I
    couldn't find any personal entry anywhere about this man named Condom.
    And I must add that if, as this seems to indicate, the story about the
    name coming from the town of Condom is an urban legend, it is a very
    widely circulated one in France, as I've heard it in many different
    places, and this topic is the first place where I ever read or heard
    about the origin being the name of the inventor. All in all, this seems
    to indicates that nobody knows for sure, and the fact that the French
    (capote anglaise) and English (French letter) nicknames each tend to
    attribute the invention to the other nation doesn't help a lot in
    clarifying the subject.
    	Most of the references mentionned that the first and foremost use
    of the device was to avoid spreading venereal diseases rather than
    contraception, but one added that the story goes that the invention
    shocked the contemporaries so much that the inventor had to change his
    name... Maybe it's why there's no entry for him ;^)
    			Denis.

    	A friend of mine sent me the following mail, and later phoned me to
    say that she had learned two new French words, and that one of them,
    "kleenex" might fit somewhere in this file. I don't think the Academie
    would approve much of this.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    .
    .
    .
Want a (not so) funny tale of life in Paris? Last night (bout midnight)
I missed a turning to get to my parking garage and couldn't do a U (1 way)
so I asked a young guy walking along how to get home. He said he lived
in the same street so he'd ride along with me and show me the way. Like
a BIG IDIOT I let him into my car, drove off and couldn't believe my eyes
when he pulled out his willy and started to indulge in a spot of onanism.
I said "What do you think you're doing?" and he said "Qu'est que tu pense?
Je branle - est ce que vous avez un kleenex?". I shouted at him to get out
of my car (trying to beep the horn which of course no longer works) which he
did and I left him there waving his willy!
Of course when I finally found the parking garage I was scared silly having
to walk across the dark garage (only emergency lights) thru a warren of 
corridors to the lift.

Phew! I'm happy to be moving out on Monday - the parking is creepy anyway
but now I feel even worse.

Strange tale?

bisons, HL
    

    	Actually, the thing that intrigued me from the last note is that
    (assuming it was correctly reported, and I have no reason to believe it
    was not) is the switch from "tu" to "vous". My wife and I are always
    confusing when you should use one and when the other and there are
    subtle social implications if you get it wrong, which we do. Is there a
    French speaker who can explain the switch, or was it just random slang
    or careless speech?

    It would sound more odd to use a polite form in delivering the
    insult (whether deserved or not) of "What do you think?".
    
    On the other hand, in Japanese, some traditionally polite forms
    have turned into insults all by themselves, and would very well
    augment an insult such as this one.
    
    -- Norman Diamond

    	After all that I forgot the most important part of her phone call.
    What is the word for "Names that become lower case words"? I was sure I
    would find it in the base note, but it isn't there. Does this mean we
    have to invent a word for it, and if so, how do we go about getting it
    entered in the Oxford dictionary?

    ... eponyms?
    
    --angela

    I think eponyms are persons' names that become lower-case words.
    Trademarks that become lower-case words are, uh, extrademarks,
    and the process of downcasing is called extradition.

Dave,

	Are you suggesting that your correspondent also noted
	that the onanist (what on earth does that mean anyway?)
	intonated "kleenex" in *lower case*?  Boy - her French
	must be sharp to pick that up.

	Funnily enough, it was the tu/vous discord in the tale 
	which interested me as well.  Of course, the story is
	anecdotal and one can't rely upon it for any indication
	of common speech practice.  I have never ever heard a 
	native French speaker mix the two forms.  I have certainly
	heard them using one form or the other inappropriately,
	sometimes in mocking formality, othertimes in pretentious
	familiarity.  The two forms used in 2 successive
	sentences is in my opinion unlikely to happen with a truly
	native speaker unless by pure negligence.  Denis - can you
	comment?
	

    Re .120, .121:
>    	Actually, the thing that intrigued me from the last note is that
>    (assuming it was correctly reported, and I have no reason to believe it
>    was not) is the switch from "tu" to "vous". My wife and I are always
>    confusing when you should use one and when the other and there are
>    subtle social implications if you get it wrong, which we do. Is there a
>    French speaker who can explain the switch, or was it just random slang
>    or careless speech?
    	That's difficult to say, Dave. Slang does not usually use "vous" at
    all, and the question about the kleenex was perfectly correct (as far
    as the language only is concerned, I mean...), contrary to the first
    sentence, which used slang words (well, at least one slang word...). It
    could have been just careless speech but, if you want a parallel case,
    I actually know some people (in a VERY smal minority, usually with posh
    upperclass upbringing, and they are very unusual even there) who use
    "vous" even with their spouse, and only switch to "tu" in intimate
    circumstances (no, I never was a witness of very intimate
    circumstances, but it sometimes comes out in circumstances that are
    only slightly intimate...). Maybe that was something of the sort. The
    wording does not look very improbable to me, only a little weird, but
    surely less than the actual action.
    			Denis.

    Re .126: Chris, as to onanist, look in the Bible (in the book of the
    Judges, I think, but I'm far from sure of it) at the story of Onan.
    	About the switch from one form to the other, you'll probably never
    hear someone (except maybe a Belgian, but that comes from some Belgian
    colloquialism, not from careless speech) mix "vous" and "tu" in the
    same sentence, but in two separate sentences, as is the case here, it's
    not impossible at all, only a bit unusual. I don't see it as improbable
    as you seem to think.
    			Denis.

    .126 and .128
    
    Onan refused to propagate the species and "cast his seed upon the
    ground". 

    	From the King James version it appears that this was contraception
    by premature withdrawal rather than masturbation (he was having sex
    with his brother's wife), but it has commonly been understood as
    masturbation. Of course *he* fits perfectly into this topic, regardless
    of whether "kleenex" was spoken with a lower case voice.

The story of Onan is in Genesis.  It was indeed premature withdrawal rather
than masturbation.

    As stated above, masturbation is usually described as onanism --
    despite the fact that the Bible clearly describes the actions as 
    premature withdrawl, or coitus interruptus.
    

    And the "sin of Oman" was not "spilling his seed on the ground" as is
    usually made out.  The sin was in his refusal to comply with the law of
    the time, under which he was obligated to provide an heir for his dead
    brother.

    
    Re: .-1
    
    Not to be confused with the Gulf of Onan...
    
    JP

	Re: .130

	Though the Patriarchs might have been more liberal than we think,
	Onan - Judah's son was not

>                                                         ... having sex
>    with his brother's wife...

	It was his brother's WIDOW, Tamar, as was his duty, in order to give
	an heir to his childless-defunct brother.

	Juan-Carlos Kiel @ISO

I was somewhat surprised to read my sorry tale of woe in the
Joy of Lex conference - (Dave, you ARE a reprobate - I did not want the whole
world to know which female was stupid enough to get into this situation :-))

Let me put a few things straight - In fact 'Le branleur' said 'tu' 
consequently during our brief conversation. 
I typed 'Vous' by mistake when recounting the incident to Dave.
Given the intimacy of our situation, I suppose this was acceptable.
The second typo I made which none of you French speakers noticed is that
surely the correct verb is "se branler" since this is a (very) reflexive
verb. 

After the event, I found it very amusing that in response to my shrieked
"Qu'est-ce que tu fais?" (I actually spoke French - another mistake in my
original report) he replied so calmly and in such a patronising manner, 
apparently mystified that I hadn't been able to work out for myself what
he was doing. Aaah, les femmes!

Linda   

    Re .136: Hello, Linda. I'd just like to say that you are indeed right
    in saying that, in this meaning, "se branler" is indeed very reflexive
    and that it should have been properly written "je me branle" rather
    than "je branle", but I did not mention it, first because it was rather
    beside the subject of Dave's question, and second because there are
    unfortunately much more careless speakers in France than you seem to
    think (probably not as high a proportion as in the US, but quite likely
    not much lower...), and it is not uncommon, even if incorrect, to hear
    people use this verb without the reflexive pronoun. So it did not
    really surprise me to read it that way in Dave's note. But I'd like to
    compliment you on the quality of your French, no matter where you learnt
    it ;^).
    			Denis.

>   and the process of downcasing is called extradition.

Extrademarcation?

    To put it delicately, if "branler" is always reflexive, i.e., "se
    branler," how does one describe the action of providing said service to
    another person?

    Dorothy Parker, of Algonquin Round Table fame, named her parakeet Onan,
    because he "spilled his seed upon the ground".
    
    Back to your regularly-scheduled rat holes.....
    

    Re .139
    
    >how does one describe the action of providing said service to
    >another person?
    
    Maybe, je l'ai hook'ee, elle va me hooker, etc.
    (A name which became a lower-case French word.)

    Re .139: Dick, the answer is very simple. Should you provide that
    service to someone, you would use the same verb in a transitive rather
    than reflexive construction, i.e. "branler quelqu'un(e)" rather than
    "se branler". Which puts in light why the form written in Linda's
    letter was incorrect, because the construction was neither reflexive
    nor transitive, thus leaving the reader with the problem of finding out
    who was the object of the action... ;^) The verb is indeed very refle-
    xive in the case of someone indulging in an act of autosatisfaction,
    but this is due to the nature of the action performed rather than to
    the intrinsic nature of the verb, which can be either reflexive or
    transitive depending on what it describes.
    			Denis.

    Denis,
    
    Is 'autosatisfaction' masturbating in a Renault 11? :-)

    Re .143: Linda, why a Renault 11? Is it special? Or where you driving
    one that fatal night? ;^)
    		Denis.

Subject: Bush (the verb)
Subject: Bush has been verbified 
      
   At least, Bush's controversial trip 
      threw up a new Japanese verb 
      
     by John Woodruff 
       Baltimore Sun 
      
    Although  historians  and  economists  may  debate for years  
    whether  President Bush's trip here (Japan) helped or harmed  
    his  cause, one achievement can be recorded immediately. The  
    trip  enriched  Japanese with a socially acceptable verb for  
    one of life's unspeakable miseries. 
      
    The new verb is Bushusuru: to do a Bush. 
      
    The  new  verb  has  found  its  way into popular magazines,  
    television  variety  shows,  even  into  a  popular trained-  
    monkey  act.  When  he  hears  the  verb,  Jiro, the animal,  
    imitates what gastroenteritis made the president do at Prime  
    Minister  Kiichi  Miyazawa's dinner, complete with realistic  
    sounds. 
      
    In  Roppongi  and  others  of  this city's (Tokyo) dozens of  
    thriving  night-life  centers,  such  a  verb  has a special  
    usefulness because of Japan's particular drinking customs. 
      
    Each  night,  tens of thousands of Japanese men deliberately  
    get as drunk as they can as fast as they can, one of the few  
    widely  accepted  ways  of  escaping  the  rigidly  stylized  
    manners that dominate social relations here. 
      
    As  these  tens  of  thousands  head  for the subways around  
    midnight, dozens each night get no farther than the sidewalk  
    before they Bushusuru. 
      
Watashi wa bushushimas 
Anata wa bushushimas 
Pooresidentu wa bushushimas 
    

    >Bush (the verb)
    >Bush has been verbified
    
    No, sorry.  Bush is still a noun.  Suru is the verb.  Suru means
    "to do", and the construction <noun>-suru is common for many nouns.
    
    >The new verb is Bushusuru: to do a Bush.
    
    Exactly.  (Except that I think it was conventional to write his
    name with three syllables instead of two, to best approximate the
    English phonemes.)
    
    >Watashi wa bushushimas 
    >Anata wa bushushimas 
    
    busshu shimasu
    (If you want to run words together it is no problem, since that is
    Japanese style, but then you should run all the words together, or
    at least run each phrase together such as watashiwa or anatawa.)
    
    >Pooresidentu wa bushushimas 
    
    Purejidento wa busshu shimasu.
     -  -     -
    
    ��ϥ֥å��夷�ޤ���
    ���ʤ��ϥ֥å��夷�ޤ���
    �ץ쥸�ǥ�Ȥϥ֥å��夷�ޤ���
    
    (There is also a real Japanese word for president, but I'm not
    going to change editors again to do it.)
    
    -- Norman Diamond

    Tnx for the poifeck example of Diamondsuru, Norman! :-)
    

    Sorry, Diamondsuru is a verb, not a noun.
    You're welcome for the sample Diamonds :-)

    Re .144: Denis, How did you manage to work out that my 'bagnole' is a
    R11? You must have crystal balls ;-)
    
    Linda

    re .150:
>    Re .144: Denis, How did you manage to work out that my 'bagnole' is a
>    R11? You must have crystal balls ;-)
    
    	For Heaven's sake, Linda, don't advertise it!! All the girls (and
    maybe some boys too...) will want to check. I'll never again get a
    moment's rest, no to mention that they might break them... ;^(
    			Denis.

    Returning to the subject of The Typo That Was Never Uttered, a number
    of replies have hinted but not spelt out the obvious question: was
    the branleur a native speaker of French? In Lisbon I've been mistaken
    for a Brazilian (not because of any lapse of etiquette in a Renault),
    but forms of address (under stress) is no 2nd-language speaker's
    strong point.
    
    b

    	Could "being renaulted" become a new English (or French) verb for
    having the sort of entertainment that Linda was subjected to? I have
    never experienced it myself, but I could just imagine some of my female
    acquaintances saying "I've been renaulted", or "Hier soir j'etais
    renault�". I don't think either language has anything better than a
    composite phrase to express the concept, so if the concept becomes
    common both languages will need a word. Renault could become
    common-verbised.

>> ================================================================================
>> Note 201.150           Names that become lower case words             150 of 153
>> MOEUR5::HUMPHREYS                                     4 lines  12-JUN-1994 07:38
>>                                -< R11 TURBOT >-
                                         ******
    
    Linda - you will be well aware of the old Mary Whitehouse quotation ;
    
    	"There are only two things that smell like fish ...."
    
    I guess the second must be your R11 TURBOT  :-)