Conference thebay::joyoflex

This sentence will be over before you can say Jack Robinson.

This sentence contains many garbaddidles, but the zepunious kritches can
be besmailed from the context.

.




	You are rereading the sentence you just finished reading.

One of my favorites . . .

The author in Scientific American (Douglas Hoftstadter I believe) posed the
question:

	What question is its own answer ?

The question I like the best that fits the requirements:

	Why are you asking me THAT out of the blue ?

(think about it)

My second favorite question meeting the requirements happens to be one
I made up when the problem was posed:

	What is the first word of this sentence ?

This sentence is false.  (if true, false - if false, true)

or, indirectly self referential utterances -

I'm not as think as you drunk I am.

I repeat myself when under stress.  I repeat myself.

Illiterate?  Write for free help!

Help stamp out,  end,  and eliminate redundancy.

I'm not as thunk as drinkle peep I am.

A spoonful of "erisms" makes the medicine do gown?

How about simply "This is a self-referential sentence" as an example of a
self-referential sentence?

I prefer, "This is not a self-referential sentence."

One of the things I recall from Hofstadter's article on self-referential
sentences was an anecdote in which someone was taking a history exam.  The
teacher, not wanting to restrict the student too much, included the 
following question:

	What question would be suitable for this exam ?  Give its answer.

So one student's response was:

	What question would be suitable for this exam ?  Give its answer.
	What question would be suitable for this exam ?  Give its answer.

Hofstadter goes on to say that "this didn't sit quite right with him".

I was wondering why not.

Was it perhaps that the student never actually answered the question ?

Or perhaps that since it's a history exam, the question ITSELF is not suitable, 
and therefore the student won't get credit for his answer ?  Of course it
wouldn't be fair to not give credit, because if the question is not suitable
then the teacher should not have asked it in the first place !

re .4

The neatest answer to "What question is its own answer" is

	"What question is its own answer?"

(Which is only true if it's true, but if it's true, is true.)

	HRB

One type of self-referential sentence is one whose purpose is to tell you
about itself.  For instance, here's a sentence that tells us how many of
each letter of the alphabet are in itself:

	This sentence contains ___ a's, ___ b's, ___ c's, . . .
	___ z's, twentyseven commas, and twentysix apostrophes.

The "___" are to be filled in by you, oh masterful reader, with spelled
out numbers (like the "twentyseven" in front of "commas").  Anyone care to
try it ?

/Eric

Find the two floss in this sentence.

1. The word "flaws" is spelled "floss."

2. There is only one flaw in that sentence.

	Jon

    
    
    
    
    
                         IGNORE THIS REPLY
    

    If this were not a self-referential sentence, what would its subject
    be?

Reply from LEROUF::POOK.
    
From a WPS_PLUS/VMS document:  nonbreaking hyphen        

    How about this sentance:
    
    	"when quoted and appended to itself makes a sentance" when quoted
    	and appended to itself makes a sentance.
    
    On another subject, an earlier reply mentioned that "This sentance is
    false" is false if it is true, and true if it is false, so it is
    neither true nor false.  I have another favorite in the same vein: This
    sentance is true.  If it is true, then what it asserts is true, so the
    sentance is true.  If it is false, then what it asserts is false, so it
    is not true that the sentance is true, so it is false.  What this means
    is that the sentance is both true and false.  (Sometimes I'm amazed
    that human minds can think up stuff like this.)
    
    Chris

    My dictionary does not have one...
    

    Re .20:
    
    It shouldn't be "_a_ sentance"; it should be "sentance."
    
    "Sentance" are what people go to Florida to get.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    If I had finished this sentence, 

    This sentence was in the past tense.
    

    This sentence is a !!!! premature punctuator
    

    (1) This sentence every third, but it still comprehensible.
    
    (2) This would easier understand fewer had omitted.
    
    (3) This impossible except context.
    
    (4)

    ...

    A reply, which draws attention to:
    Douglas R Hofstadter: "Metamagical Themas: Questing for the Essence
    of Mind and Pattern" published in	1985 in the	USA by Basic Books
    					1986		UK  by Penguin.
    consisting largely of his Scientific American articles - a bit scrappy
    and patchy compared with his earlier book ("G�del, Escher, Bach") but
    it has some interesting stuff about Cubes, Chopin, Lisp, and Fonts as
    well as some of the sentences already quoted in this note, and a
    discourse on self referential words, and sentences, and titles, like
    these.				Nigel.

                              -< Not a sentence. >-

              This Is the Title of This Story,
             Which Is Also Found Several Times
                    in the Story Itself

     This is the first sentence of this story.  This is  the
second  sentence.  This is the title of this story, which is
also found several times in the story itself.  This sentence
is   questioning  the  intrinsic  value  of  the  first  two
sentences.  This sentence is to  inform  you,  in  case  you
haven't already realized it, that this is a self-referential
story, that is, a story containing sentences that  refer  to
their  own  structure and function.  This is a sentence that
provides an ending to the first paragraph.

     This is the first sentence of  a  new  paragraph  in  a
self-referential story.  This sentence is introducing you to
the protagonist of the story, a young boy named Billy.  This
sentence  is  telling  you that Billy is blond and blue-eyed
and American and 12 years old  and  strangling  his  mother.
This   sentence  comments  on  the  awkward  nature  of  the
self-referential  narrative  form  while   recognizing   the
strange and playful detachment it affords the writer.  As if
illustrating the point  made  by  the  last  sentence,  this
sentence  reminds  us,  with no trace of facetiousness, that
children are a precious gift from God and that the world  is
a  better  place when graced by the unique joys and delights
they bring to it.

     This sentence describes Billy's mother's  eyes  bulging
and  tongue protruding and makes reference to the unpleasant
choking and gagging  noises  she's  making.   This  sentence
makes the observation that these are uncertain and difficult
times and that relationships, even seemingly deep-rooted and
permanent ones, do have a tendency to break down.

     Introduces in this paragraph  the  device  of  sentence
fragments.   A  sentence  fragment.   Another.  Good device.
Will be used more later.

     This is actually the last sentence of the story but has
been place here by mistake.  This is the title of the story,
which is also found several times in the story  itself.   As
Gregor  Samsa  awoke one morning from uneasy dreams he found
himself in his bed transformed into a gigantic insect.  This
sentence  informs  you  that  the preceding sentence is from
another story entirely (a much better one, it must be noted)
and  has no place at all in this particularly narrative.  In
spite of the claims of the preceding sentence, this sentence
feels compelled to inform you that the story you are reading
is in actuality "The Metamorphosis" by Franz Kafka, and that
the  sentence  referred  to by the preceding sentence is the
ONLY sentence that does indeed belong in this  story.   This
sentence  overrides  the preceding sentence by informing the
reader (poor, confused wretch) that this piece of literature
is  actually  the  Declaration of Independence, but that the
author, in a show of extreme negligence  (if  not  malicious
sabotage),  has so for failed to include ONE SINGLE SENTENCE
from that stirring document, although he has condescended to
use a small sentence FRAGMENT, namely "When in the course of
human events," embedded in quotation marks near the end of a
sentence.   Showing  a  keen  awareness  of  the boredom and
downright hostility of the average reader with regard to the
pointless  conceptual  games  indulged  in  by the preceding
sentences, THIS sentence returns us at last to the  scenario
of  the  story  by  asking,  "Why  is  Billy  strangling his
mother?" This sentence attempts to shed some  light  on  the
question  posed  by  the preceding sentence but fails.  THIS
sentence, however, succeeds in that it suggests  a  possible
incestuous  relationship  between  Billy  and his mother and
alludes to the concomitant Freudian complications any astute
reader  will immediately envision.  Incest.  The unspeakable
taboo.  The universal prohibition.  Incest.  And notice  the
sentence  fragments.   Good  literary  device.  Will be used
more later.

     This is the first sentence of a new paragraph.  This is
the last sentence in a new paragraph.

     This sentence can serve as either the  beginning  of  a
paragraph  or  the end, depending on its placement.  This is
the title of this story, which is also found  several  times
in  the  story  itself.   This  sentence  raises  a  serious
objection to the entire class of self-referential  sentences
that  merely  comment  on  their  own  function or placement
within the story (e.g., the last  four  sentences),  on  the
grounds that they are monotonously predictable, unforgivably
self-indulgent and merely serve to distract the reader  from
the real subject of this story, which at this point seems to
concern strangulation and incest and who  knows  what  other
delightful topics.  The purpose of this sentence it to point
out that the preceding sentence, while not itself  a  member
of  the  class  of self-referential sentences it objects to,
nevertheless ALSO serves merely to distract the reader  from
the  real  subject  of  this  story, which actually concerns
Gregor Samsa's inexplicable transformation into  a  gigantic
insect  (in  spite  of the vociferous counterclaims of other
well-meaning although misinformed sentences).  This sentence
can serve as either the beginning of a paragraph or the end,
depending on its placement.

     This is the title of this story, which  is  also  found
several times in the story itself.  This is almost the title
of this story, which is found only once in the story itself.
this  sentence  regretfully states that up to this point the
self-referential mode of  narrative  has  had  a  paralyzing
effect  on the actual progress of the story itself, that is,
these  sentences  have  been  so  concerned  with  analyzing
themselves and their role in the story that they have failed
by and large to perform their function as  communicators  of
events  and  ideas  that  one  hopes  coalesce  into a plot,
character development,  etc.,  in  short  the  very  raisons
d'etre of any respectable, hardworking sentence in the midst
of a piece of compelling prose fiction.   This  sentence  in
addition  points  out the obvious analogy between the plight
of these  agonizingly  self-aware  sentences  and  similarly
afflicted   human  beings,  and  points  out  the  analogous
paralyzing  effects  wrought  by  excessive   and   tortured
self-examination.

     The purpose of this sentence (which can also serve as a
paragraph)  is  to  speculate  that  if  the  Declaration of
Independence   had   been   worded   and    structured    as
lackadaisically  and  incoherently as this story has been so
far, there's  no  telling  what  kind  of  warped  libertine
society we'd be living in now or to what depths of decadence
the inhabitants of this country might have sunk, even to the
point   of   deranged   and   debased  writers  constructing
irritatingly cumbersome and needlessly prolix sentences that
sometimes   possess   the   questionable  if  not  downright
undesirable quality of  referring  to  themselves  and  they
sometimes  even  become  run-on  sentences  or exhibit other
signs  of   inexcusably   sloppy   grammar   like   unneeded
superfluous  redundancies  that  almost certainly would have
insidious  effects  on  the  lifestyle  and  morals  of  our
impressionable  youth, leading them to commit incest or even
murder and maybe THAT'S why Billy is strangling his  mother,
because  of  sentences  JUST  LIKE  THIS  ONE, which have no
discernable  goals  or  perspicuous  purpose  and   end   up
anywhere, even in the mid

     Bizarre.   A  sentence  fragment.   Another   fragment.
Twelve  years  old.   This  is a sentence that.  Fragmented.
And strangling his mother.  Sorry, sorry.   Bizarre.   This.
More  fragments.  This is it.  Fragments.  This is the title
of this story, which.  Blond.  Sorry, sorry.  Fragment after
fragment.   Harder.   This  is  a sentence that.  Fragments.
Damn good device.

     The purpose of this sentence  is  threefold:    (1)  To
apologize   for   the  unfortunate  and  inexplicable  lapse
exhibited by the preceding paragraph;   (2) To  assure  you,
the  reader,  that  it  will  not happen again;  and  (3) To
reiterate the point that these are uncertain  and  difficult
times  and  that  aspects of language, even seemingly stable
and deeply rooted ones such as syntax and meaning, do  break
down.    This  sentence  adds  nothing  substantial  to  the
sentiments of the preceding sentence but merely  provides  a
concluding sentence to this paragraph, which otherwise might
not have one.

     This sentence, in a  sudden  and  courageous  burst  of
altruism,  tries  to  abandon  the self-referential mode but
fails.  This sentence tries again, but the attempt is doomed
from the start.

     This sentence, in a last-ditch attempt to  infuse  some
iota  of story line into this paralyzed prose piece, quickly
alludes to Billy's frantic cover-up attempts, followed by  a
lyrical,  touching  and  beautifully written passage wherein
Billy is reconciled with  his  father  (thus  resolving  the
subliminal  Freudian conflicts obvious to any astute reader)
and a final exciting police chase scene during  which  Billy
is   accidentally  shot  and  killed  by  a  panicky  rookie
policeman who is coincidentally named Billy.  This sentence,
although  basically  in  complete sympathy with the laudable
efforts of that last  action-packed  sentence,  reminds  the
reader that such allusions to a story that doesn't, in fact,
yet  exist  are  not  substitute  for  the  real  thing  and
therefore will not get the author (indolent goof-off that he
is) of the proverbial hook.

     Paragraph.     Paragraph.     Paragraph.     Paragraph.
Paragraph.   Paragraph.   Paragraph.  Paragraph.  Paragraph.
Paragraph.  Paragraph.  Paragraph.  Paragraph.  Paragraph.

     The purpose.  Of this paragraph.  Is to apologize.  For
its gratuitous use.  Of.  Sentence fragments.  Sorry.

     The purpose of this sentence is to  apologize  for  the
pointless  and  silly  adolescent  games  indulged in by the
preceding two paragraphs, and to express regret on the  part
of  us,  the  more mature sentences, that the entire tone of
this story is such that  it  can't  seem  to  communicate  a
simple, albeit somewhat sordid, scenario.

     This sentence wishes to apologize for all the  needless
apologies  found  in  this story (this one included), which,
although placed here ostensibly for the benefit of the  more
vexed  readers,  merely delay in a maddeningly recursive way
the continuation of the by now nearly forgotten story line.

     This sentence is bursting at the punctuation marks with
news  of  the  dire  import  of self-reference as applied to
sentences, a practice that could prove  to  be  a  veritable
Pandora's  box  of  potential  havoc,  for it a sentence can
refer or allude to  itself,  why  not  a  lowly  subordinate
clause,   perhaps   this  very  clause?   Or  this  sentence
fragment?  Or three words?  Two words?  One?

     Perhaps it is appropriate that this sentence gently and
with  not  trace  of condescension reminds us that these are
indeed very  difficult  and  uncertain  times  and  that  in
general  people  just  aren't nice enough to each other, and
that perhaps we, whether sentient human beings  or  sentient
sentences,  should just try harder.  I mean, there is such a
thing as free will, there has to be, and  this  sentence  is
proof  of it!  Neither this sentence nor you, the reader, is
completely helpless in the face of all the  pitiless  forces
at  work  in the universe.  We should stand our ground, face
facts, take Mother Nature by the throat and just try harder.
By the throat.  Harder.  Harder, harder.

     Sorry.

     This is the last sentence in the story.   This  is  the
last  sentence  in  the story.  This is the last sentence in
the story.  This is.

     Sorry.
                       -- David Moser


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cited in:
Douglas R. Hofstadter, "A self-referential column about last January's column
  about self-reference", Scientific American, Vol 246, #1, (Jan '82):16-28.    
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------



The following sentence is totally identical with this one except that the words
'following' and 'preceding' have been exchanged as have the words 'except'
and 'in' and the phrases 'identical with' and 'different from'.

The preceding sentence is totally different from this one in that the words
'preceding' and 'following' have been exchanged as have the words 'in'
and 'except' and the phrases 'different from' and 'identical with'.

					- Scott Kim & Douglas R. Hofstadter

    This note would like to thank that author of the previous note for this
    opportunity to praise the self referral discertation of that note in
    this note while also creating a run-on sentence that does not utilize
    sentence faragments to create suspenseful phrases in the lauding of the
    self referral construct, which should not be confused with the self
    constructive referral which this note will not attempt to define or
    illuminate the reader (who should be weary of this note commenting on
    itself) or anybody else, on the benifits of the two axioms of the same
    idiom used in this note to praise the previous note for this
    opportunity to praise the self referral discertation of the previous
    note in this note while also creating a circular reasoning sentence
    which could continue adinfinitum due to the desire of this note to
    illustrate not only ability to referr to itself (and what a wonderous 
    note this is) but to the previous note which did not refeff to this 
    note but should because this note will referr to the next note which
    does note exist yet, but may at some point, but doesn't have to even if
    this note referrs to the next note while still referring to this note
    at regular intervals and to the previous note which didn't referr to
    this note.
    
    I've said my piece and will stop now since you are probably wondering
    how anybody can continue to talk about nothing and still say something
    like my wife does from time to time and which she accuses me of on a
    regular basis just as this sentence has again started to the self
    referral stuff and seems to continue onward and onward, ever onward
    with no end in immediate sight.
    
    Steve

    If this sentence didn't have a question mark at the end of it, would it
    be a question?
    
    This sentence has a period at the end.
    
    This sentence does not!
    
    This sentence lies because it has a period at the end of it!
    
    "Yields falsehood when quoted and appended to itself" yields falsehood
    when quoted and appended to itself.
    [This appears in Hofstadter's _G�del, Escher, Bach_.  He
     calls it "quoining", i.e. "Yields falsehood when quoined" yields
    falsehood when quoined.]
    
    Why did Douglas R. Hofstadter cross the street?
    
    TO make this joke possible.

    In Pascal:
      TYPE self_reference_t   = ^self_reference_t;
      VAR  reference          : self_reference_t;
      NEW (reference);
      reference^ := reference;
    
    In C:
      void *reference;
      reference = &reference;
    
    In English:
      Dictionary (dik'-shun-e-ri), n.  ...........
    
    In Law:
      An American engineer designed a jail in Saudi Arabia.  When
      construction was finished, he took a photo of it.  He usually
      took photos of the buildings he designed, as a matter of
      professional pride. Well, it turns out that in Saudi Arabia,
      it is illegal to take photos of prisons.  He was prosecuted
      and convicted -- in fact, he was the first inmate in the jail
      he designed.
      Now surely THAT was a self-referential sentence.
      (It is also a true story.)

    I have not SAVEd, DELETEd, and rewritten an edited version of this reply.
    
    b
    b

    I'm not sure whether this is self-referential, because when I try
    whether my brain is looping it starts to hurt.
    
    b