Conference thebay::joyoflex

This is in the Trivia notes, too, back in the 1700s somewhere, courtesy of
me. A close word-for-word rendition would be
"The original Rose persists in its name; we hold the naked Name".
One of the later responses in Trivia offers something a little more
poetic. Maybe I'll go dig it out if I feel energetic. Anyway, maybe you get
the gist. "In" could also be rendered "by", "hold" could also be "perceive",
"naked Name" could be something like "Name only", etc.

-John

This is the flowery poetic rendition that appeared as a reply in
Trivia:

  13-JUL-1984 09:43           NACHO::LYNCH       

For what it's worth, this from the USENET's net.books mailing:

The last line is taken from a 12th century poem:

"The rose of yore is but a name, mere names are left to us."

-- Bill

Many thanks.

what are the sources of and differences between:

i.e.
e.g.   (those first two are easy)
viz.
ibid.
sic.
et al

All of these are easy.

  i.e. = id est, Latin for that is or which is.
  e.g. = exempli gratia, Latin for free example.
  viz. = videlicet, Latin for namely.
  ibid. = ibidem, Latin for in the same place
  sic. (Sic) = sic, Latin for thus or so, used to cite a text with an error
                    showing that the writer is quoting, not making, the error.
  et al (Sic) = et al = et alii, Latin for and others


By defining them, I assume that that tells the sources & differences between
them.

sic 'em, boy!

good.  I've also seen "viz" defined as from the french "alvidicet"...

french?  It sure must have been old french, back when it was still very close
to latin.

Re .5: I thought "e.g." = "exempli gratia" was "FOR THE SAKE of 
example" in Latin.  (I don't guarantee the ending of "exempli" -- 
it might be "exemplii" or something else, since I don't know the 
nominative.)

Also, I thought "et al." (note the full stop -- period to Yanks) 
stood for "et alia", where "alia" is neuter plural of "alium", 
"other thing".

Someone should shoot me too, obviously (as in a recent reply to 
another note).

Gabriel.

"exempli gratia" means in idiomatic English language "for example".  Other
Latin prepostions translate as "for" -- "pro" can translate as "for" but
generally refers to "in front of"; "ad" can translate as "for" but generally
refers to the direction of as in "Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam" "To the Greater Glory
of God."  "Ars Gratia Artis" can be translated as "Art for art's sake" or "Ark
for the sake of art."

"et al" can mean "et aliae" (fem.), "et alii" (masc.), or "et alia" (neu.) 
depending on context.

Pat Sweeney

Regarding notes .6 and .7:

Could we be a bit more careful about capitalizing language names?
It hurts just a little to see "french" in print.

Why? The French don't capitalize "french," so why should we?

Of course the French don't capitalize it. They don't even use it.

     What does "et ux" mean?  In the local paper, some properties are 
sold by or to "Joe Blow et ux."

re: .13

"And wife", perhaps?  Uxor = wife

-piper

    
    
    	I thought et ux meant literally, "and all", which leads me to
    	think it would mean everyone associated with the object.
    	Like maybe 'family'?

    .14 got it. "Et ux." is "et uxor", "and wife". Six years of
    Latin; don't tangle with me.
    
    -John

    from the dollar bill:
    
        E pluribus unum := one from many
    
    Novus ordo seclorum := new secular order ?
    
         Annuit coeptis := ?
                                                   
                  /
                 (  ___
                  ) ///
                 /
         

    E unibus plurum

    Novus ordo seclorum := a new order of the ages.
    Annuit coeptis := He has favored <our> undertaking.
    
    Ask me another.
    
    -John

12.19 by NEDVAX::MCKENDRY 

>    Ask me another.
>    
>    -John

Well, that put a stop to THAT!

    Only a year late. What about the fse's lament?
    
    Omnia fui et nihil expediti.
    
    Mike

	re.21
    
>        Omnia fui et nihil expediti.

    I'm afraid this means nothing coherent in correct Latin. Aren't
    some words missing ?
    
    As a wild guess, perhaps it's an attempt at saying something
    like:
    		I needed everything, they sent nothing
    
    
    roger

    I suspect that whoever coined the `Omnia fui...' motto had a dictionary
    but hadn't studied much. In English, the past participle of the verb
    `to go' is _been_; as I recall, the Latin for `I have been' (in the
    sense of `gone') is _ii_. And `omnia' could conceivably mean `to all
    places', although I imagine there's a real Latin word for that. 
    
    So `omnia fui' doesn't mean anything (unless Roger's right, and some
    words have been dropped).  Most likely, it's supposed to translate as
    `I have been' (in the sense `I have gone to and been present at'); the
    `Latin' doesn't express that idea at all. 
    
    At a guess: `I've been everywhere, and fixed nothing.'  But it's not
    Latin enough for anyone but the perpetrator to know what can have
    been meant.
    
    b

     Other favorites:
     
     q.v.
     c.
     Sic biscuitus disintegratum        ! a personal name I once saw
     
     etc.

    	Ignus Caput = Fire ahead...
    

    For this one you have to know German too:
    
    Equus pus = Gaul eiter
    

>> < Note 12.24 by LISP::DERAMO "Daniel V. {AITG,LISP,ZFC}:: D'Eramo" >
>>                                 -< I, Clavdivs >-
>> 
>>      Sic biscuitus disintegratum        ! a personal name I once saw
     
	roughly translated ....

		that's the way the cookie crumbles

					

		Mkowa  (whose H.S. diploma is written in Latin and he
			still hasn't figgered out what it says)

    Excuse my faulty memory, but in the spirit if Ignus Caput (I loved
    it!):
    	Nihil Illigitimi Carburundum
    
    
    = Dont let the B******* Grind You Down.
    
    

    I always heard it "Illigitimi non carborundum."

    Bill    
    

    How about
    
    	Non circum coitus?
    
    or
    
    	Don't fool around?
    
    

    "A little coitus never hoitus!"

Ain't it grand what you can get if you're on a Jokes distribution list?
I can't claim veracity in translation, but it looks ok to me.

                   ----------------------------------------

I got the book that has the Latin expressions in it

Try these: prospice tibi-ut Gallia, tu quoque in tres partes dividaris
Watch out, you might end up divided into three parts like Gaul


In dentibus antcis frustum magnum spinaciae habes--you have a big piece of 
spinach on your front teeth

Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo--Don't call me, I'll call you

Estne tibi forte magna feles fulva et planissima?  Do you by chance happen to
own a large, yellowish, very flat cat?

Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris--If Caesar were alive, you'd be chained to
an oar

Huc accedit Zambonis--Here comes the Zamboni

Eamus, O Tibialia Rubentia--Let's go Red Sox

Stadium sedipilae optimum Saeptum Paludosum etiamnunc est--The best baseball
stadium is still Fenway Park.

    Re .32: These are great, but be careful as there seems to be a few
    typos.
    
>In dentibus antcis frustum magnum spinaciae habes--you have a big piece of
    		-
    I'm not sure it should be "antis", but I'm pretty sure it's not
    "antCis".
    
    
>Estne tibi forte magna feles fulva et planissima?  Do you by chance happen to
    			   -
    Should be felIs, not felEs, I think (could even be a bad taste pun, but
    I don't remember very well the conjugation of "to suck" in Latin...).
    
    
>Stadium sedipilae optimum Saeptum Paludosum etiamnunc est--The best baseball
    					     ---------
    Should be "etiam nunc" (two words), I think.
    				Denis. (My memories from Latin class are a
    					bit rusty).

    On _All Things Considered_ (a radio news program, for those not
    stateside), they interviewed someone who had just published a whole
    book full of these phrases.  Something about bringing Latin back to
    life.  Some of the lines in .32 were mentioned...
    
    Mea maxima culpa, I don't remember any details.
    >Mark

I have a tee shirt with this saying:

    Obstuprantur qui non patiantur facetias.

I believe this means, loosely translated, "Screw them if they can't take a
joke."

Dave C.

Can anyone help with the following?
    
			uva uvam vivendo varia fit

    
    							Thanks,
    
    
    							Mark

    
RE: uva uvam vivendo varia fit


	Loosely tranlated, it means "I just rented the video for 
	Lonesome Dove and want to know what's written on the sign."

	-- Glinch

    Can someone translate the following for me (if it isn't too obscene).
    
    monsanto incorpori glorius maxima copia
    
    It's from a quote by Robin Williams, and I don't trust his translation
    of it.
    
    Andy

    Maximum glory for those who can cope with a chemical corporation.

> I got the book that has the Latin expressions in it

	Okay, what's the title? who's the author?  Thanks,

		-- Cliff

         <<< Note 12.40 by SHALOT::ANDERSON "Lights out for Turtles" >>>
                               -< Re .12 et al. >-

>	Okay, what's the title? who's the author?  Thanks,

 Cliff, I was given the book, too, so here it is, somewhat late...

	Henry Beard
	Latin For All Occasions
	(Lingua Latina Occasionibus Omnibus)
	(Henricus Barbatus Scripsit)
	ISBN 0-394-58660-3

		Dave

    ETIAM ALIVS LIBER LATINVS EST QVI SE FACET BENE UTILITATVS
    (There's also another Latin book that is pretty useful):
    
    Amo, Amas, Amat and More
    	Eugene Ehrlich
    	Perennial Library, ISBN 0-06-091395-9
    
    -dick

    SALVE RICARDE,
    
    TEMPVS MVNDVM DIGITALEM LINGVAM LATINAM DOCENDI VENTVM ESSE CENSEO. IDEAM 
    TVAM "CONFERENTIAE NOTARVM LATINAE" BONAM ARBITROR. HOC SCRIBENS QVAM IN 
    CONFERENTIAM ME INFERAM. ORBEM DIGITALEM NVNC INVITEM: IN LINGVAM QVAM 
    MIRACVLAM COLENDO VNIAMVS: LATINAM LOQVAMVR!
    
       VVALTHARIVS VINDO'BONAE AVSTRIAE DIE III APRILIS ANNO MMDCCXLV A.V.C.

It's a good 25 years since I did dates, but isn't it ANTE DIEM something?

b

    Hi, "Caveat Vendor" --
    
    You're quite right: the correct date would be A.D. III NON. APR. ["the
    third day before the NONAE of April" (which are on April 5th)], but I
    didn't want to do that lousy counting ...
    
    The NONAE ("9s") themselves are the 9th day before the IDVS,-VVM.
    The IDVS are the 13th day of the month, except in Mar, May, Jul, Oct,
    when they're the 15th day.
    
    Therefore, the Nones are on
    01/05,02/05,03/07,04/05,05/07,06/05,07/07,08/05,09/05,10/07,11/05,12/05.
    In computing the correct date, never forget to include the margin days:
    as for today (April 3rd), this is the THIRD day before April 5th.
    
    Alright?
    	VVALTHARIVS V.AE AV.AE A.D. III NON. APR. HORA IV:XXV P.M. T.A.E.C.
                                      (TEMPORE AESTIVALI EVROPAEO CENTRALI)
    
     

DE DATIS...

ETIAM HIC ANNVS MMDCCXLVI A.V.C.EST, SED TAMEN CVI IGNOSCO ERRORE MEO
IPSAM DATAM COMPVTARE, QVOD ILLE ACCEPIT.  SALVTATIONES CORDIALES TIBI
MITTO, VVALTHARIE!  :-)

INVESTIGABO INSTITVERE ILLAM CONFERENTIAM, QVA REPORTABO BREVIS TEMPORE.

RICARDVS NASHVENSIS NOVAE HAMPSHIRAE A.D. III NON. APR. MMDCCXLVI A.V.C.
(A.O D.I MCMXCII)

�    The NONAE ("9s") themselves are the 9th day before the IDVS,-VVM.
    
    That's it. Thanks. I knew the Mar/May/July/Oct months were exceptional,
    because of an appaling rhyme:
    
    In March, July, October, May
    The Nones are on the 7th day.
    On the 15th are the Ides.
    On the 13th otherwise.
    
    I'm full of these mnemonics that help me remember things wrongly, and
    assumed that the Nones, saying `nine' to me, were on the 9th. I've
    wondered for years why the exceptional months should have later Ides
    but earlier Nones; I should have been counting backwards.
    
    b
    

    NVNTIAMVS CONFERENTIAM NOTARVM LATINAM, QVAE "SENATVS POPVLVSQVE
    ROMANVS - FORVM LATINVM" APPELLATVR.

    --------

    Announcing a Latin Notes conference, called "The Senate and the
    People of Rome - A Latin Forum."

    You will find the file at this location:

	SMURF::SPQR

    Press KP7 or Select to add the conference to your notebook.

    SPQR is intended for discussion of the Latin language and Roman
    history and customs.  Although it is our aim to conduct most (but
    certainly not all) of the file's correspondence in Latin, we hope
    SPQR will prove a place where those unfamiliar with Latin words and
    expressions can ask for help.

    The introductory notes are all written in both Latin and English. 
    Moderators are Dick Binder (Nashua, NH, USA) and Walter Oslansky
    (Vienna, Austria).

     Somewhere in Digital's universe of conferences, I've run across a
     thread of latin translations of colloquialisms (one of my
     favorites: "Sometimes the dragon wins" --> "Interdum vincit draco")

     But now that I want it I can't find it.  This topic in JOY...,
     however, seem close.

     What would be a good latin version of that touchstone phrase of
     the '80's: "Anything for a buck"?

    Try the latin conference. SMURF::SPQR...
    
    q
    

    Note 18 of SMURF::SPQR is dedicated to requests for translations into
    Latin.  Press KP7 or Select to add SPQR to your notebook.
    
    I'm just *waiting* to post the phrase that .49 is looking for...it has
    such a delightful double meaning.
    
    :-)
    
    -dick