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Conference taveng::bagels

Title:BAGELS and other things of Jewish interest
Notice:1.0 policy, 280.0 directory, 32.0 registration
Moderator:SMURF::FENSTER
Created:Mon Feb 03 1986
Last Modified:Thu Jun 05 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1524
Total number of notes:18709

1484.0. "Calamity & Evil, the Evil Inclination, Yetzer Hara" by CPCOD::JOHNSON (A rare blue and gold afternoon) Wed Dec 13 1995 23:27

I did a title search using "evil" and "hara" (as in yetzer hara) but did
not come up with anything. If this is discussed in another topic that
someone knows about, please point me there.

I would like to know what are some views in Judaism concerning the question
of evil.  Specifically, why would Hashem, compassionate, loving, slow to anger, 
abounding in mercy, ... allow the atrocities that happen in the world to exist?

This question arises partly from a conversation with someone who points to
the existence of evil and calamity as proof that there is no Hashem, and 
partly from the Parashat Vayeshev in note 989.442 which has this paragraph:

	>   Sometimes, however, Hashem lets the yetzer hara completely
	>overpower a person.  At these times, the yetzer hara thinks that it
	>has won a great victory, but in fact this is part of its undoing.
	>For example, the incident in this parashah of Yehuda and Tamar looks
	>like a great coup for the yetzer hara but it actually was part of
	>has won a great victory, but in fact this is part of its undoing.
	>For example, the incident in this parashah of Yehuda and Tamar looks
	>like a great coup for the yetzer hara but it actually was part of
	>Hashem's plan for bringing about the birth of King David, the days
	>of mashiach, and the eradication of the yetzer hara.
                
I appreciate any information people are able to give me regarding this question.
Recommendations for reading also gladly accepted. Thanks. __Leslie
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1484.1Reposted QuoteCPCOD::JOHNSONA rare blue and gold afternoonThu Dec 14 1995 00:1213
In the previous note, the quote from the Parashat Vayeshev is a bit 
difficult to read because I pasted in some lines twice. Here is the quote 
again, with the extras taken out:

	>   Sometimes, however, Hashem lets the yetzer hara completely
	>overpower a person.  At these times, the yetzer hara thinks that it
	>has won a great victory, but in fact this is part of its undoing.
	>For example, the incident in this parashah of Yehuda and Tamar looks
	>like a great coup for the yetzer hara but it actually was part of
	>Hashem's plan for bringing about the birth of King David, the days
	>of mashiach, and the eradication of the yetzer hara.
                
Leslie
1484.2I'll try this oneCADSYS::GROSSThe bug stops hereFri Dec 15 1995 16:3829
The yetzer hara is an interesting topic. The term translates to "urge the evil"
(or more properly in English "the evil urge"). However, in application the
term refers to the urge to do worldly or secular things, whereas the opposite,
the yetzer hatov, is the urge to do religious things.

There is a Jewish legend that somewhere in Europe, some townsfolk actually
captured the yetzer hara and put him in prison. Turns out they had to let
him go. Everybody spent all there time in the house of study learning
torah and doing good deeds. Nobody spent any time at their professions.
Babys stopped being born. You get the idea...

I think the Jewish explaination for evil has something to do with the concept
of free will. G-d doesn't want evil in the world, but G-d also wants humans
to have free will. To deny people the opportunity to do evil would negate
the opportunity to exert free will. We believe that G-d punishes evildoers
in various ways, including punishment in the afterlife.

Natural calamities, such as earthquakes, etc., are harder to deal with.
These are sometimes explained as punishments for various sins. Maybe some
tsaddik (saintly person) didn't pray hard enough. Maybe an entire city
was behaving badly (as in the destruction by volcanic eruption of Sodom).
There is also Harold Kushner's explaination: G-d does not involve G-d's self
in everything that goes on in the world -- some things just happen and should
not be blamed on G-d. Personally, I don't find either of these positions
very satisfactory. I prefer to think that we just don't understand G-d's
intentions and we will continue to be mystified until moshiach comes and
explains it to us.

Dave
1484.3OUTSRC::HEISERwatchman on the wallFri Dec 15 1995 17:476
>There is a Jewish legend that somewhere in Europe, some townsfolk actually
>captured the yetzer hara and put him in prison. Turns out they had to let
>him go. Everybody spent all there time in the house of study learning
    
    sounds similar to the old Twilight Zone episode where they caged the
    Accuser.
1484.4CPCOD::JOHNSONA rare blue and gold afternoonThu Dec 28 1995 00:2119
> I prefer to think that we just don't understand G-d's
>intentions and we will continue to be mystified until moshiach comes and
>explains it to us.

In part that is my own answer to the question, but I want to understand 
more now. Typical human response I guess.

What is rather odd though is that since I posed my question in .0, I have
been reading little snippets from many different sources that have something
to say on the subject. I am trying to collect them together into a journal of
sorts. Perhaps after a little more time I'll be able to write an answer to my 
own question.

I just finished reading one of Chaim Potok's books, "The Gift of Asher Lev".
It has revealed some information to me. Though it is a novel I think perhaps 
it conveys some truthful information on a Hassidic view of these things. Has 
anyone else read this book or any of his other works? What think you?

Leslie