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Conference taveng::bagels

Title:BAGELS and other things of Jewish interest
Notice:1.0 policy, 280.0 directory, 32.0 registration
Moderator:SMURF::FENSTER
Created:Mon Feb 03 1986
Last Modified:Thu Jun 05 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1524
Total number of notes:18709

1401.0. "Jews situation in Europe and Italy around 1800-187" by MLNCSC::MISLER () Thu Mar 24 1994 22:15

I will open here a new topic to better explain the context of the Mortara 
case, quoted in note 1388.
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1401.1Some historical dataMLNCSC::MISLERThu Mar 24 1994 22:33151
    
    Before the French Revolution most of the Jews in Occidental Europe 
    were subjects to heavy discriminations; they were obliged to live 
    in separated areas, closed at night - the Ghettos - they had no 
    freedom to move around, to choose where to put their residence, 
    which work to do, to buy or sell real estates and so on... 
    Considering the kind of social organisation of the state at that 
    time, this discrimination was easily possible for two reasons : 
    1) The State was not an omogeneous set of people with equal 
    rights, but rather a set of different groups with different 
    characteristics, different duties and different rights. 
    2) There was no separation between the Church and the State, so 
    all religions not belonging to the dominating majority were 
    totally discriminated : Jews at first, but also also Christian 
    groups not part of the majority, like for example the "Valdesi", a 
    protestant group spread in some valleys between Italy and France. 
    So the Jewish difference, even if it caused a discriminated 
    status, was in some way "normal" in a situation in which 
    differences were the rule, not the exception.
    
    The Jewish emancipation, it is the equal rights for them like 
    other citizens, started with the French Revolution (with some 
    exceptions, but here I make a very summary explaination). With the 
    French Revolution the ideas of freedom and equality for everybody 
    were extended to Jews and equal rights were asked also for them, 
    but with two basic ambiguities (the second of which may 
    constitute, according to some historians, the base for the future 
    nazi antisemitism). 
    - The first was the anticlerical attitude of the giacobin. While 
    fighting against the Christian dominating religion, they fought as 
    well against the obstinate religiuos attitude of Jews. (Of the 
    illuministic mouvement only Montesquieu showed a true tolerance 
    towards Jews, while other from Diderot to Voltaire and later to 
    Desmoulins and Marat were against Jews emancipation). 
    - The second, more important, because it still impacts some 
    attitudes in the modern world, was the refuse of all kind of 
    differences. So the Jews could be emancipated, but only if they 
    would renounce to their difference. (The French revolution fought 
    against the "Ancien Regime" which was based on differences, and 
    according to that fight they could not accept any difference 
    between people).  
    Significant are the words told at the Constituent Assembly by 
    Clermont-Tonnerre in 1789, when he asked the full equality for 
    Jews : " All has to be given to Jews as individuals, all has to be 
    denied to the Jews as people". The first thing asked to Jews in 
    exchange for their emancipation was to dissolve their Communities, 
    the basic social organisations on which Jews have been based since 
    hundreds of years. For this reason, for example, the emancipation 
    came one year earlier for Sefardic Jews of South of France (in 
    1790), and only one and half year later for Ashkenazi Jews of 
    Alasazia and Lorena (near the border of Germany), because, beeing 
    more traditional, they refused at the beginning to dissolve their 
    communities.
    
    At least, even with many limitations and not with a true 
    tolerance, the formal emancipation for Jews arrived in Europe and 
    was carried to all Europe with the Napoleone's troops. His defeat 
    and the following Restauration stopped this process and also 
    brought back Jews, but the creation of modern states (which 
    included freedom for Jews with the limitations seen before) was 
    already started and Jews emancipation followed, at different 
    times, the creation of the national states and the concession of 
    civil rights to the whole population. 
    
    In Italy the situation was similar to the rest of Europe, with one 
    big difference. Not only there was no separation between Church 
    and State in all the small Italian States existing at that time, 
    but also a conspicous part of Italy was directly dominated by the 
    Curch (the Papal States); in those states Jews were subject to 
    more repressive laws, aimed not only at discriminating and 
    separating them from the remaining population, but also at 
    converting them. I remember only two facts : Jews were obliged to 
    periodically listen to preachs aimed at converting them (often 
    given by converted Jews); every Christian could give baptism to a 
    Jew, even against his will, and when this happened the Jew was 
    considered converted and was not allowed to live with other Jews 
    any more.  
    For this situation (even if in parts of Italy dominated by Austria 
    Jews received some earlier emencipation) Jews in Italy, more than 
    in other Eupean countries, identified the cause of their 
    emancipation with the cause of the construction of an Italian 
    national State. They not only ardently fought in the independence 
    wars, but also participated massively to the construction of the 
    new state.  The kingdom of Italy was proclaimed on the 17th of 
    March 1861, but Jews in Rome had to wait for their emancipation 
    until 1870 when Rome was conquered by italian troops. The Jews in 
    Rome have been the last in Occidental Europe to obtain their 
    emancipation, 80 years after the French Revolution.  
    The kidnapping of the Mortara child (quoted in note 1388.19-33) 
    was one of the last (certainly not the only) event of this kind 
    who happed to Jews under Pope domination.  But when it happened 
    Jews emancipation was almost a reality in many countries, so it 
    found a big audience and that's why it is known today.  
    To complete my description of the context, I would like to add two 
    other considerations.  
    1) Jews in Rome are the oldest community outside Israel. They 
    started to live there from about the second century a. e. v. and 
    during the Roman Empire they reached a number of 30.000, 40.000 on 
    a total population of one million. Synagogues in Rome preceded the 
    Vatican. Under Roman Empire Jews in Rome had in general a good 
    treatment, even if it could change, according to the Emperor's 
    attitude towards Jews. But after the conversion to Christianism of 
    Costantino the Jews situation became definitively worse. Until the 
    modern times, in parts of Italy where the Curch had the secular 
    power, Jews were oppressed and subjects to all sort of laws and 
    rules aimed at converting them and at making difficult to them to 
    observe their religious practices.  
    2) This oppression had only a religious base and did not 
    corresponded to a general feeling of people.  Then, even if Jews 
    in Italy were almost the last in occidental Europe to be 
    emancipated, they were integrated in the structures of the new 
    Italian state, in important positions, quicker than in any other 
    European state, in a number much greater than their percentage in
    the Italian population, which never was greater than 1 for one 
    thousand. (One reason for that is also the high level of training 
    among Jews compared to the low level of training of the other 
    Italian population of that time. Of Jews over ten years of age, 
    only 5,8% was illitterate, while for the catholic community 
    the percentage was of 54,5%).  
    The secretary of the Prime Minister of Piemonte, Camillo Cavour, 
    between 1850 and 1860, was a Jew, Isacco Artom (Jews in Piemonte 
    had been emancipated in 1848 and Cavour was the most important 
    statesman of the time, the man who made the unity of Italy). Later 
    Isacco Artom became the first Jew in Europe to be assigned to an 
    high diplomatic charge outside his country in Europe. Three Jews 
    were elected in the first Italian Parliament, in 1861; in 1870 the 
    elected were nine and eleven in 1874. In 1891 the Jew Luigi 
    Luzzati was named Minister of Finances and in 1910 he was named 
    First Minister (In France, were Jews obtained emancipation about 
    80 years earlier, it was necessary to wait for more 26 years to 
    have a Prime Minister Jew). In 1888 Giuseppe Ottolenghi was the 
    first Jew to be named general, and in 1902 he became Minister of 
    War (at that time in Germany no Jew could have a military grade).  
    During the first World War (the only war in modern times that 
    Italy won) there were 50 Generals Jew.  The youngest to deserve a 
    gold medal was a Jew, Roberto Sarfatti, died at 17 years, and the 
    oldest voluntary was also a Jew (also the youngest partisan who 
    fought and died against Nazi in WWII in Italy was a Jew, of 14 
    years). In 1930 8% of University professor in Italy were Jews 
    (while Yale College did not have a regular Jew professor until 
    1946).  The other side of this strong integration of Jews in the 
    Italian society was the high degree of assimilation, but this is 
    another subject that I will not treat here.
    
    These informations have been taken from the following books - all 
    in Italian - :
    * Attilio Milano - History of Jews in Italy - Einaudi
    * Anna Foa - Jews in Europe - Laterza
    * Susan Zuccotti - The Holocaust in Italy - Mondadori
      
    
1401.2More context (England)TLE::JBISHOPFri Mar 25 1994 23:4826
    This is from the magazine _The_Economist_, in the book 
    review section (p100, issue of  March 12, 1994):
    
    	   :
    	William Gladstone tried in 1869 to persuade Queen
    	Victoria to grant a peerage to Lionel de Rothschild.
    	When she refused, Glastone noted:
    
    	    It is not only the feeling of which she cannot
    	    divest herself, against making a person of the
      	    Jewish religion, a Peer; but she cannot think
    	    that one who oes his great wealth to contracts
    	    with Foreign Govts for Loans, or to successful
    	    speculation on the Stock Exchange, can fairly
    	    claim a British peerage....
    		:
        :
    
    <back to me>
    
    Now the Queen was not just secular ruler but Defender of the
    Faith (titular head of the state religion), so it's not as
    surprising as it might be--but it's still a reminder of how
    non-Christianity was viewed only a bit over a century ago.
    
    		-John Bishop