Conference taveng::bagels

>        5.  Israeli Health Minister was interviewed, but questions
>            were skewed and combative.  He was only one who ever
>            mentioned the word terrorist.
	
	It was reported on the news here last night that the interview with 
	Haim Ramon (Israeli Health Minister) was included in the program 
	only after the insistence of the Israeli government.
	Originally CNN had no intention of interviewing any Israeli. 

	- So much for objective reporting.

>        To my Israeli friends, I am sorry that the U.S., thru CNN,
>        exports such trash worldwide, and can influence world
>        opinion in such a powerful way. 

	Thanks, but we're used to it. It's not the first time and probably 
	not the last.

	Larry King interviewed the spokesman for the 396 deported
Hamas terrorists last night, and also had on as a counter-point 
Sen. Lautenberg.

	I watched the show, and taped it, wondering what it was going
to be like, given the CNN bias and yet having heard Larry King, on his
return from a trip to Israel in 92, saying how moved he was by being 
there.


	1.  Initial live interview with CNN correspondent (british
		national) was twisted -- correspondent was talking of
		brutal weather conditions, primitive, etc.  Very
		one-sided view of conditions, without addressing facts
		of 1. they could be in jail or dead if they were anti-
		arab terrorists living in surrounding arab countries and
		2. Lebanon is the country that wont let them in.
	
	2.  Hamas spokesman never directly answered questions -- he would 
		use time on the mike to talk about missing his family
		or about thousands of arabs killed by Israelis or 
		millions of refugees made by Israel, etc. etc. etc.

		He couldnt understand why he was deported from a 
		democratic country, having been a Univ. of Nablus
		geography professor who only happened to speak out
		against the Israelis.

	3.  Hamas spokesman evaded the questions repeatedly :  "Are you
		a supporter of Hamas?"  He would not answer - always
		saying "I support Islam, which means peace in Arabic"
		(I thought it meant submission, which in my book is not
		peace). 

		Larry refused to buy in, and said, I assume that by 
		your statements you mean "Yes"

	4.   Spokesman also refused repeatedly to answer if he wanted to
		drive all Israelis out of the land.

	5.  Lautenberg was great!  He was able to state the truths and
		counterbalance the lies and evasions spoken by the
		Hamas, reading from Hamas charter, stating that Hamas
		even plotted to kill the Answari (sp?} the neogtiator,
		reminding Larry that the spokesman himself probably 
		knew the name of the murderers of the Israelis, etc.
		He had the facts and was just GREAT.

	6.  By the end of the 40 minutes it was obvious that Larry was 
		tired of the evasions and the platform speaking, that the
		bleeding heart story was just bull, because Larry kept
		cutting in on the spokesman and then letting Lautenberg 
		talk.

	
	I believe that anyone with a half brain who watched it all would
	be able to see the truth of the matter.

	I wonder how much heat there is on Larry when he isnt politically
	correct?	

    When the IDF border police were killed a couple months ago, NPR
    reported that Hamas claimed responsibility, killing the Israeli
    soldiers as a "gift" (quoting NRP) to the Intifada for their struggle.
    
    But of course, Israel is the bad guy in this scenario...
    
    Israel's existence is a constant reminder that the G-d of Abraham,
    Isaac & Jacob is real and alive and that His Word is true and to be
    trusted.  The L-rd spoke through His prophets of a time when the
    nations would all war against Israel...perhaps we're seeing this come
    to fulfillment?
    
    Steve
    

			Why I Hate Hamas

			  Zeev Chafets

	(Reprinted without permission from "The Jerusalem Report", 25 Feb. 
	1993)


When Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin gave the order to dump 415 Hamas activists 
into Lebanon, almost two months ago, a Yediot Aharonot poll showed that 91 
percent of the public supported the decision.  Since then, however, it has 
become apparent that the deportation is, from the Israeli perspective, a 
classic example of Murphy's law - every conceivable thing that could go 
wrong, has.

First, the Lebanese government, asserting itself for the first time in 20 
years, trapped the Hamasites in a telegenic no man's land.  Next, CNN and 
other international news outfits decided to treat the expulsion as a major 
crime against humanity, lavishing the deportees with constant, largely 
sympathetic coverage.  Meanwhile, mainstream Palestinians, who were supposed 
to be secretly pleased at the blow to Hamas, rallied behind the organization 
and are now boycotting the peace talks until the deportees are allowed to 
return; and the United Nations threatened sanctions, enabling the Americans 
to browbeat Rabin into a "compromise" which is nothing more than a 
transparent, and humiliating, retreat.

As if all this weren't enough, the botched deportation has deeply divided 
the Rabin government. Even the foreign minister, whose job it is to defend 
the action, has all but disappeared, leaving the task to hapless Haim Ramon 
(who in a recent CNN interview, said that since Israel is a nation of laws 
and since there is no proof that would hold up in court that the deportees 
did anything wrong, the government had no choice but to expel them; at least 
I think that's what he said, he was speaking in a language resembling 
English.)

All this is well known, but worth recalling in light of a new poll published 
in Yediot Aharonot on February 5 which shows that, after almost seven weeks 
of international opprobrium, diplomatic defeat, and domestic turmoil, 77 
percent of Israelis still support the expulsion.  This is, on its face, an 
amazing statistic. And since I am among the 77 percent, I would like to try 
to explain it.

First of all, most Israelis understand, as foreigners apparently do not, 
what Hamas is and what it wants to do. Simply put (and the Hamas charter 
puts it simply) the intention of the organization is to destroy the State of 
Israel and to kill as many Jews as possible in the process.  For this 
reason, Hamas opposes any conceivable compromise with us, and is determined 
to block the hope of reaching such a compromise with the PLO.

Second, there is no policy short of mass conversion to Islam that would 
satisfy Hamas. This is because it is an organization of religious lunatics 
who believe that Allah wants them to wage holy war against all Jews.

Third, legalities aside, few of us would doubt that the benign-looking 
characters we see on television every day, pelting each other with snowballs 
or wishing the world a Merry Christmas are, indeed, Hamas activists. The 
other night Larry King actually had the temerity to ask the group's 
spokesman, a _Nana_ League professor of geography named Douweik, if he and 
his fellows belonged to that organization. After pointedly evading the 
question three times, an exasperated Larry told him, "I'll take that to mean 
yes," and the spokesman didn't contradict him. Nor was Prof. Douweik willing 
to accept King's invitation to denounce the killing of Jews or to agree that 
Israel has the right to exist in some form, some place in the Middle East.

Now, many Israelis are understandably unsympathetic to people who advocate 
their mass murder. And we are also upset by the fact that the international 
reaction to the Hamasites on the hill has been so notably devoid of moral 
outrage. I, for one, suspect that if the Germans, for example, rounded up 
400 violent skin-heads and dumped them temporarily in, say, Poland, the 
world might react differently. I have no doubt that some governments would 
find it unseemly to be seen as patrons of Nazis, and there are probably 
journalists who might not display the same fine concern for the comfort of the 
deportees, or treat their ideology with such even-handed respect.

The world's somewhat suspicious overreaction to the expulsion of Hamas 
activists helps to explain why such an overwhelming majority of Israelis 
support it. It underlines for us the fact that we are more or less alone in 
the struggle against these people. And it also taps into a deep impatience 
with the "rights" of fundamentalist geeks - Nazi, Saddamite or Islamic - who 
feel that they have a divine mandate to shovel Jews into ovens, fire 
missiles at our homes, or destroy this country as a favor to God. Are the 
Hamasites cold at night in their tents? Tough. Is the world sympathetic to 
the plight of these fanatical Jew-haters? Well, now, what does that tell us?

In the coming weeks and months, Rabin will be pressed to make further 
concessions to the Hamas deportees. He should resist, even if there is a 
diplomatic or economic price to pay. Unfortunately, a government as 
inarticulate as his will probably never be able to "explain" to the world 
why it is both right and reasonable to fight back against Hamas by whatever 
means are necessary. Luck for him, 77 percent of us understand even without 
an explanation. And that, especially in a democracy, speaks for itself.

                                     Excerpt

                  "Charter of the Islamic Resistance Movement -

                                      Hamas

                               Gaza, August, 1988"



      Among the key points:





       o  "The Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) feels that  the  land  of

          Palestine  is  a  trust  which  belongs  to  Islam  throughout the

          generations until the day of resurrection ...  no one  is  allowed

          to compromise on this land ..." (page 11)





       o  "There is no solution to the  Palestinian  question,  but  through

          Jihad" (Holy War) ...  (page 14)





       o  "Our enemies  ...   gained  control  of  the  international  media

          beginning  with  news agencies, newspapers, and publishing houses.

          Broadcasting stations ..  with their  money  they  have  detonated

          revolutions  in  different parts of the world ...  (including) the

          French Revolution ...   the  Communist  Revolution  .   they  have

          created  secret organizations which spread throughout the world in

          order to destroy societies and to achieve Zionist  interest;  such

          as the Free Masons, the Rotary, and the Lions Club." (page 24)





       o  "They were behind World War I ...  World War II, where  they  made

          enormous profits from speculation ...  There is no war anywhere in

          which their fingers do not play ..." (page 25)





       o  "After Palestine, they (Zionists)  aspire  to  further  expansion.

          Their  plan  is  the  Protocols  of  the  Elders of Zion and their

          present conduct testifies to the truth of what we say." (page 35)

    re .5
    
    The last three points listed in the previous note sound a lot like the
    charters of right-wing fringe organizations in the U.S.  These
    terrorists in this country have committed multi-million dollar bank
    robberies and organizewd campaigns of terror against Jews and Jewish
    organizations.  Just substitute the term christian for the term Islam
    and you have ogranizations with identical goals.

    re: .6
    
    
    Hi,
    
    Would you mind posting the names and actual excerpts of the charters of
    the "right-wing fringe organizations in the U.S." that you claim have
    "committed multi-million dollar bank robberies and organized campaigns
    of terror against Jews and Jewish organizations" that you label as
    "christian"?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Steve

    Steve,
    
    The group that immediately comes to mind is the "Arayan Nations" (sp?). 
    I did not mean to imply mainstream christianity.  Groups such as the
    above use their so-called christian faith to justify their fascism.

    re: .8
    
    Hi,
    
    You're right of course...skin-heads, neo-nazis, the kkk - etc., these
    groups use  (as you say)  their "so-called christian faith to justify
    their fascism".  And history records the fact that some people (sadly,
    sometimes very powerful people) in more mainline Christian circles
    were also blinded by anti-Semitism and used their "so-called" faith to
    justify their hatred.  These things are tragedies of immense proportion
    and gross ignorance of the message that Yeshua (himself a Jew) and
    his followers (also Jews) taught.
    
    That some teach Jew-hatred supposedly in the name of "christian" faith
    doesn't mean they're right or that their message is supported by the
    true teachings of Yeshua.  That they were wrong, however, doesn't
    negate the real pain felt by Jews through the last 1900 years.
    
    I'm deeply sorry for both sides of the equation.
    
    Regards,
    
    Steve
    

    And speaking about not having their charter....
    
    How does one go about getting the charters of these groups?  I like to
    speak factually about groups like this, and yet I've never written to
    them to get information from them because 1) I don't want them to think
    they have another supporter, and 2), I don't want to continually
    receive their vitriolic literature.
    
    Now of course - without having their charters, isn't it a bit
    hypocritical of me to call their literature "vitriolic"?  Well in a
    way, sure - but then again, as a friend of mine once told me, "...if
    it's plainly labelled 'HORSEPUCKIE', you don't have to eat it...".
    
    I've wanted to read "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" to know what
    it is they (who are they?) are saying about Jewish people and Israel. 
    But I don't want to have that book in my possession - any more than I
    want to have "Mein Kampf" in my possession...yet, I think on one level,
    these are very important books to read - just as important as it is to
    read the excerpts from the Hamas charter that Don posted a few replies
    back.  
    
    Any comments, suggestions?
    
    
    Steve

    Finance your local library to acquire them?
    
    							Ann B.

    University libraries often subscribe to lots of fringe/exotic stuff
    to be used as source material in the future.  I remember finding a
    complete run of _Signal_, a Nazi magazine produced in English for
    distribution as propaganda, when I was wandering the stacks in
    Brown University's Rockefeller library.  It was remarkable for being
    in color in the mid-30's (a time when _Life_ was in black and white),
    though the last few issues ('43? '44?) were much shorter and only
    black and white.
    
    If you have a local university and can get a librarian to help, you
    have a good chance of getting what you want--just tell them you're
    writing a paper on deviant political semiotics!
    
    		-John Bishop

    In the US University Libraries such as Brandeis and Yeshiva probably
    keep copies.
    
    		Danny

    Thanks all...