[Search for users] [Overall Top Noters] [List of all Conferences] [Download this site]

Conference taveng::bagels

Title:BAGELS and other things of Jewish interest
Notice:1.0 policy, 280.0 directory, 32.0 registration
Moderator:SMURF::FENSTER
Created:Mon Feb 03 1986
Last Modified:Thu Jun 05 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1524
Total number of notes:18709

1279.0. "Friday the 13th, Good luck?" by POCUS::BLACKMAN (Don't Believe it unless I seesit!) Fri Nov 13 1992 17:17

    Hi,
    
    I wanted to to something special today for a special friend of mine. 
    However, I realized that it is Friday the 13th.  If my friend is
    supersticious it would not be a good idea.  Anyway, I have recently
    heard that perhaps Friday the 13th is good luck for people of the
    Jewish faith, if so I am in luck then.  Any thoughts?
    
    -Jon
    
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
1279.1Good question!WILBRY::WASSERMANDeb Wasserman, DTN 264-1863Fri Nov 13 1992 18:465
    I don't know about Friday the 13th being lucky to Jews in general, but
    I _do_ know that my grandmother considered 13 to be a lucky number. 
    Does anyone know where this superstition about Friday the 13th
    originally came from?
    
1279.2COVERT::COVERTJohn R. CovertSun Nov 15 1992 05:5412
Maybe thirteen is a good number since it is the number of attributes (middot)
of divine mercy derived from the text of Exodus 34:6-7, used in many prayers.

Due to a peculiarity in the calendar, the 13th of the month is more likely
to fall on Friday than on any other day.  I refused to believe this until
I wrote a program to calculate it; there is a lengthy discussion of this
somewhere in ASKENET.

We could probably get into a long discussion of the relationship between
superstition (for good or bad luck from an object or number) and idolatry.

/john
1279.3Why Friday the 13th is a *Christian* superstitionTLE::USAGE::GROSSLouis GrossSun Nov 15 1992 19:0415
.1�    Does anyone know where this superstition about Friday the 13th
.1�    originally came from?

In Christian mythology, 13 is unlucky because Judas was the 13th apostle,
and Friday is unlucky because that is the day the Gospels say Jesus was
crucified, so put the two together, and you have an unlucky day. I believe
that some people also consider it bad to have a dinner party with 13
guests (because that means that one of the guests will betray the host?).

I don't mean to say that Christians think of Friday the 13th as an unlucky
day, just that the superstition originated in a Christian culture. (By the
way, apartment buildings in New York used to avoid a 13th floor by
numbering ...11, 12, 14... and Ogden Nash has a charming poem about people
in such buildings who live on the 14th floor being secret 13-dwellers [my
mother was, until recently, a secret 14-dweller].)
1279.4POWDML::SMCCONNELLNext year, in JERUSALEM!Mon Nov 16 1992 19:445
    re: 13 apostles...
    
    I thought there were only 12?
    
    Steve
1279.5Who knows 13??GRANPA::AFRYDMANMon Nov 16 1992 20:5211
    12 + JC = 13 at the last supper.
    
    Who knows 13?
    
    I know 13.
    
    13 are ...the Attributes of HaShem
           ...Years till Bar Mitzvah
           ...the number of "yom Tov" days outside of Israel
    
    
1279.6Also. . .ELMAGO::RSALASWed Nov 18 1992 20:314
    Also the thirteen pillars of the Jewish faith (Moshe ben Maim�n).
    
    
    Ram�n
1279.7I don't know why I bothered, but FWIW....TAV02::SIDSid Gordon @ISOWed Nov 18 1992 21:0119
>Due to a peculiarity in the calendar, the 13th of the month is more likely
>to fall on Friday than on any other day.  

Call me a skeptic.  I also wrote a quick DCL procedure to check this
(about 5 minutes work) and came out with the following:  For the 100 years 
(1200 months) between 13-JAN-1901 and 13-DEC-2000, the 13th of the month
comes out on the following days:

	Sun 171 times
	Mon 173 times
	Tue 169 times
	Wed 173 times
	Thu 171 times
	Fri 171 times
	Sat 172 times

Don't believe everything you read in Easynet.

Sid
1279.8Like I said, I didn't believe it until I really checked it.COVERT::COVERTJohn R. CovertWed Nov 18 1992 22:5110
>(1200 months) between 13-JAN-1901 and 13-DEC-2000, the 13th of the month
>comes out on the following days:
>
>Don't believe everything you read in Easynet.

You didn't go far enough.  The peculiarity in the calendar happens every
hundred years, but not every four hundred years.  2000 is one of the "nots",
so your experiment wasn't valid.

/john
1279.9NOTIME::SACKSGerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085Wed Nov 18 1992 22:581
We should ask our esteemed moderator.  After all, calendars R him.
1279.10It's true, the 13th is a Friday more than any other dayCOVERT::COVERTJohn R. CovertWed Nov 18 1992 23:0113
Over any 400 year period you get:

  FRIDAY = 688
  MONDAY = 685
  SATURDAY = 684
  SUNDAY = 687
  THURSDAY = 684
  TUESDAY = 685
  WEDNESDAY = 687

See topic 1982 in ASKENET for the full story.  Be sure you read all the replies.

/john
1279.11You win, I give upTAV02::SIDSid Gordon @ISOWed Nov 18 1992 23:198
Touche.
The differences are hardly significant (I wouldn't even go so far as
to call it a "peculiarity"), but I have to admit you didn't say it
was significant, just that it was true.

And now back to our regularly scheduled broadcast...

/sid
1279.12gematria has the solutionNEADEV::KAPLANThanks for all the FishMon Nov 23 1992 00:599
    That thirteen is a LUCKY number goes back to the very first day of
    creation.  In the Hebrew, it is YOM ECHAD, day one, a cardinal number. 
    All of the other days are referred to with ordinal numbers (second day,
    third day, etc.)  In gematria the numerical value of echad is thirteen
    (aleph = 1 + chet = 8 + daled = 4).  Therefore, at the moment of
    creation 13 was established as a special and good number.
    
    Gary (Mr. Judy) Kaplan
    
1279.13This is a lucky reply!TAV02::NITSANOne side will make you largerMon Nov 23 1992 08:510
1279.14greetings to Mr. Judy :-)TNPUBS::STEINHARTLauraMon Nov 23 1992 16:241
    
1279.15Why numerology?MIMS::LESSER_MWho invented liquid soap and why?Tue Nov 24 1992 22:278
    I have always wondered why numerology is so important for Jews
    throughout history.  I had a Chasidic Rabbi as my religious studies
    teacher in junior high, when I attended a day school.  Many of his
    parables were concerned with mystical numbers or general numerology. 
    In each one of our subjects, except modern Hebrew, he always mentioned
    something about this or that mystical number.
    
    Mark