Conference taveng::bagels

Re: .0

>        1- I'm staying in Ramat Aviv with friends.  Where is the closest DEC 
>           office?  Can I have a fax sent there if need be.  I'm working on
>           a project that might need my attention while I'm on vacation (yuk!).

The Main DEC Office is located in Herzeliya, ~10Km north of Ramat Aviv. The
address is:

Digital Equipment (DEC) Ltd.
Digital House
Accadia Junction 
Herzliya.

You can have your fax (or Electronic Mail) addressed to me:
Juan-Carlos Kiel @ISO - or TAVIS::JUAN

My phone nbr is (052)593 397. Our fax is (972-52)542 530.

>        2- How is the Sheckel doing in relation to the dollar?  Will I find
>           things (such as food and buses) expensive?
>
>        3- Has the money system changed (again) since the last time I was over
>           (1984)?  The conversion rate I found for the sheckel (as of July 13)
>           was 2.4 sheckels to the dollar.  If I remember correctly I was able
>           to get 100s of sheckels to the dollar last time I was there.

The Shekel is still at ~2.45 NIS/US$. A meal at a non-expensive restaurant could
cost you under $20. Hamburger & coke for some 6-7US$.

>
>       4- I have a Cirrus bank card and an American Express card.  Can I get
>          cash with either one of these if I need to?  If so where?  How widely
>          accepted is American Express?

I think you can draw some money with the American Express card; shops that 
cater to tourists may also accept it: I believe that the Stern Jewelry shops
do; you might purchase diamonds and/or high value antiquities with it.

>        5- Any suggestions for things to do or see other than the usual tourist
>           sights.  I will be in Israel from Aug. 1 through the 17th.

Visit the Diaspora Museum in Ramat Aviv, visit the Galil and Golan: The ruins
of Gamla, facing the Kinnereth, besides one of the "highest" waterfalls in 
Israel (no, neither the Iguazu falls or Niagara falls have nothing to fear);
go SCUBA diving in the ancient port of Caesarea, and if you do not mind the 
heat, visit the Jo Alon center for Beduin culture in the Negev.

By all means, go visit the excavations south of the Temple mount (guided tour),
and, with an organized excursion, you may try to wade the Hezekia Tunnel, that 
once brought water from the Gihon to the Shiloach pool.

Visit the "Hevrah Le-Haganat Ha-Teva" (The Association for the Protection of
Nature) for suggestions where to visit and what to see, and walk, walk, walk.

>         6- Is there a departure tax...when I leave Israel will I have to pay
>            any taxes before leaving the country?

On the contrary, foreign visitors do not have to pay departure taxes (but for 
the ~10$ airport fee), but they may get refunds on the VAT (Value Added Tax)
they paid in their purchases here.

Regards,

Juan-Carlos.

Lauren,

>
>         1- I'm staying in Ramat Aviv with friends.  Where is the closest DEC 
>            office?  Can I have a fax sent there if need be.  I'm working on
>            a project that might need my attention while I'm on vacation (yuk!).

The closest office would be in Hezlia at the Accadia Junction. It is about
10-15 minutes from Ramat Aviv.

You can have FAXes sent to 972 52 546325 - In care of Chaim Budnick.
If possible have mail sent to my vaxmail address TAV02::CHAIM
Just send me a number at which you can be contacted in Israel.

>
>         2- How is the Sheckel doing in relation to the dollar?  Will I find
>            things (such as food and buses) expensive?

It's holding at around 2.40 (+,-). Buses are relatively inexpensive. As to
food, it depends on what your eating habits dictate; bread, fruits and
vegetables, and milk products are reasonable; meat etc. is more expensive. If
you do it yourself as opposed to resaurants, you'll also come out ahead.
Falafel is still the best buy.


>
>         3- Has the money system changed (again) since the last time I was over
>            (1984)?  The conversion rate I found for the sheckel (as of July 13)
>            was 2.4 sheckels to the dollar.  If I remember correctly I was able
>            to get 100s of sheckels to the dollar last time I was there.

Lots has happened since 1984.... including changes in the monetary system and
change of currency name (from Shekel to Shekel Hadash (new Shekel)).

>
>         4- I have a Cirrus bank card and an American Express card.  Can I get
>            cash with either one of these if I need to?  If so where?  How 
>	     widely
>            accepted is American Express?
>

Don't know the answer here; someone else will have to help out.

>         5- Any suggestions for things to do or see other than the usual tourist
>            sights.  I will be in Israel from Aug. 1 through the 17th.

If you have seen the regular tourist sites, I would suggest considering trips
with the "Chevra L'hagant Hateve" (Nature Society?). They are not geared for
your normal tourist. They generally include lots of hiking within the nature
sights. From my own personal experience, they are not too expensive. 

>
>         6- Is there a departure tax...when I leave Israel will I have to pay
>            any taxes before leaving the country?
>

If you are a tourist, then there is no tax when leaving.

Have fun,

Cb.

    Cirrus bank card will not do you any good. American Express is
    accepted but not as widely as in the US. Since you have an American
    Express card you can go to one of their offices and buy travelers
    checks with a personal check. So if you need more cash that is
    one apporach to take.
    
    

re .-1

>Cirrus bank card will not do you any good.

1242.18, written 8-July, says:

>  you can use (if you have one) a CIRRUS ATM card at Bank Hapoalim in Jerusalem
>and Tel Aviv to get shekels if you run out of travellers' cheques.  Presumably
>other cards work, too.

I called 800-4-CIRRUS, which informs me that there are over 160 ATMs in Israel,
all at branches of Bank Hapoalim, which accept CIRRUS cards.

Can someone tell me if there is one in Ben Gurion Airport, please.

/john

I made a few phone calls - one call to American Express and one to CIRRUS and 
to my bank (DCU).  This is what I found out.

	1- With an American Express Card and a Personal Check or Checking account  
	number you can get cash/travelers checks at an American express office.
	There's one on Ben Yehudah Street in Tel Aviv.  There's also one in 
	Jerusalem.  I have the office name, exact street address, and phone 
	number for the Tel Aviv office at home.  If you'd like this info. let
	me know and I'll post it.

	2- CIRRUS - as John Covert said, there are over 160 CIRRUS Bank Machine
	locations in Israel.  All of them are at Bank Hapoalim's.  I was
	curious as to how this worked so I called DCU.  Basically, you can 
	withdraw Shekels from the bank machine.  The amount you withdraw is 
	converted to dollars based on the exchange rate for the day you withdrew
	the funds.  The dollar amount will be posted on your statement.

-L
 

.4> I called 800-4-CIRRUS, which informs me that there are over 160 ATMs in
.4> Israel, all at branches of Bank Hapoalim, which accept CIRRUS cards.
.4> 
.4> Can someone tell me if there is one in Ben Gurion Airport, please.

I *think* that Bank Hapoalim has a machine at Ben-Gurion.  But if there isn't
(or it's broken or doesn't accept CIRRUS), you could change money at the bank
in the terminal.  As a further backup, I'm sure that you could use dollars to
pay for a taxi (or shared taxi) from Ben-Gurion.

    
    Definitely go to the Diaspora Museum in Ramat Aviv.  Plan several hours
    as there is so much to see.  The Holacost Memorial is a must-see,
    especially the Children's Memorial - powerful.  The Chagall Windows at
    Hadassah Hospital are beautiful, but if this is trip #3 for you,
    chances are you've hit that already.
    
    The SCUBA diving in Eilat was super!  I highly recommend going to
    Dolphin Reef if you like dolphins.  You can SCUBA or snorkel there with
    the dolphins.  They will swim right up to you and play!  It wasn't
    cheap, but it was worth it.  I was staying in a diving hostel in Eilat
    called "Aqua Sport" for eight bucks per night so I had extra money to
    spend on fun things like diving.  
    
    I was there in April and had a fabulous time.  Have fun!
    
    Jennifer

This topic seems to have a lot of comments related to money, so I guess that
it's an appropriate place for this:

In many situations, your best bet will be to charge things on your Visa or
Mastercard.  Foreign cards are widely accepted in Israel, and the credit-card
companies generally give a fair exchange rate.  This also saves you the trouble
of finding a machine that'll accept your cash card.

You should change money or cash travelers checks in a bank only as a last
resort.  This is because
    1)	it involves waiting in one or more lines, a waste of your limited
	vacation time; and
    2)	nowadays, Israeli banks sometimes charge outrageous commissions on such
	transactions.

Hotels often give a lousy rate when accepting foreign cash or travelers checks.
Again, you're better off using your foreign Visa or Mastercard.

>You should change money or cash travelers checks in a bank only as a last
>resort.  This is because
    1)	it involves waiting in one or more lines, a waste of your limited
	vacation time; and
    2)	nowadays, Israeli banks sometimes charge outrageous commissions on such
	transactions.

Eric,

Are you "officially" suggesting that people go to Rehov Lilenblum for money 
exchanges?

--David

You can go to the bank and get a cash advance on your Visa.  Good rates,
but possibly long lines.

    re: -1
    >> You can go to the bank and get a cash advance on your Visa.
    
    Gerald, 
    Are you sure it is worth doing?  I remember that in Europe there used
    to be a fee for this "service".
    								... Monty

I don't remember if the bank at which you get the cash advance charges a fee --
I haven't been to Israel since 1987.  The bank that has your Visa account
may charge a fee, and they'll charge interest (unless it's a debit card like
mine).

    	Gentlemen:

	The laws and regulations of the State of Israel prescribe that you
	are permitted to change foreign money only at Banks, at Hotels that 
	cater to foreign tourists and at specially designed money changers. 
	Full  stop.

	It may be possible to change money in a black market, it may be
	possible to cross with red light or to steal from a widow. The law
	does not permit it and the wrongdoer may be prosecuted.

	As I do not expect any Note file and no respectable noter to advocate
	to cheat on the US IRS or Immigrations or whatever, I do expect to
	equally respect the laws and regulations of all countries, including 
	Israel, even if complying with regulations may "cost" a few additional
	bucks. 

	If those regulations violate any individual liberty, fight 
	against them by all legal ways.

	If we don't agree with this, we may see recommendations, in this and
	perhaps other notes, on how to smuggle goods thru customs, where to 
	look for drugs, or prostitution or who knows what other "non lawfull" 
	activities. I do not want to imply that any previous noters are 
	fomenting those activities. But by all means, let us refrain from that.

	Best regards,

	Juan-Carlos Kiel
	Digital Israel

I simply don't see a reply in this entire string that suggests changing money
on the black market.

Someone, in response to a suggestion that people not change money at banks
unless absolutely necessary, asked if that was a suggestion to use the black
market.  It obviously was not, since the suggestion was, in fact, a suggestion
to use credit cards as much as possible in order to avoid having to get cash
very often.

I think the tone of reply .-1 is totally out of line, an that Juan-Carlos
owes those of us who have been making suggestions about how to change money
an apology, for none of us have suggested anything illegal.

/john

.9> Are you "officially" suggesting that people go to Rehov Lilenblum for money 
.9> exchanges?

First of all, the Israeli black money market is best left to those who are
familiar with it.  This excludes most tourists.

Second, I believe that suggesting that people disobey the law would violate
corporate policy concerning conferences on the Easynet, and I would not
knowingly violate that policy.  So I am not suggesting that anyone break
Israeli law when changing money, just as I would not suggest that anyone exceed
the posted speed limit on I-495 in Massachusetts.  Is that clear?

I can think of 2 legal ways to avoid getting ripped off when changing money:
    1)	charging expenses on foreign credit cards, to reduce the need to change
	money; and
    2)	withdrawing shekels from cash machines that take foreign cash cards, as
	suggested elsewhere in this conference.

John, keep cool!  I can see where Juan-Carlos got the "black market" inference
from, and I do not think he was making any specific accusations.  If you look 
back to David's note 1250.9, you will see that he mentions:

>                              -< Shuk Hashehor? >-

which means "black market" in the local lingo!

and:

>Are you "officially" suggesting that people go to Rehov Lilenblum for money 
>exchanges?

Rehov Lilenblum is the unofficial location for black market money dealing.

Eric has now posted an answer to David's questions in 1250.15, but Juan-Carlos
responded first.  I think it is good to remind everyone now and again that 
black markets are illegal and also tend to be the place where you can get 
"really" ripped-off (i.e. losing all your money through forged notes, or just 
being mugged).

Wherever you change your money, I hope you have a very enjoyable visit.

Shalom
Baruch

The date of my reply here should indicate the "frequency" that I get to read 
notes, in fact I'm on a break from a proposal-writing effort, so I decided to
try and catch up.

Sheesh, I knew someone would take my "Lilenblum" remark offhand!  I'm not
suggesting that any tourist partake of the black market or any other illegal
activity.  First of all if you aren't fluent in Hebrew, you'll get ripped off,
that's a given, even in some taxi cabs.  Not all Jews in this world adhere to 
"Chaverim Kol Yisrael", :-.

I did partake (notice PAST tense!) of the shuk ha shahor several years ago, and
the give-and-take was interesting provided you kept abreast of the world money 
markets.  I was very interested in how someone could make a living off of 
currency transactions.  Also the "display" of currencies from every part of 
the world in one "establishment" was astounding, to my eyes.

But for the sake of argument that was all in the PAST tense...

--David