Conference taveng::bagels

>    However, I must admit I have ***VERY*** little knowledge of your
>    country and culture.   I'm interested in recommendations for books,
>    etc.   Also, I would be very grateful for any suggestions you could
>    make.  

	Two good standard books, which are complementary to each other
	and are available in the US in English are:

	"Bazak's Guide to Israel" - A "touristy" book, with cultural,
	weather, hotel, restaurant, tour route, etc. info. A good basic
	way to put things on the map, ant to locate basic services.

	"Guide to Israel, by Dr. Zev Vilnay" (pronounced vil-nah-eee):
	maybe *the* authoritative "tourbook."  It skips all the regular
	tourist #$#@, and jumps right into some pretty nice historical 
	/ cultural explanations and essays on places and things. Many 
	walking tours given.  Bring a Tanach, and carry the Tanach plus 
	Vilnay, and see how places come alive...

	Start reading these well before you come, if you are really
	interested in seeing more than the surface.  Also:

	The Israel Nature Society (Rehov Helene HaMalka, Jerusalem) has
	a wealth of "serious" touring information.

	There is a wonderful book called "Footloose in Jerusalem" (which
	I no longer have a copy of, and wish I did).  It is a book of 
	walking tours of Jerusalem.  Long before we "made aliyah", we took 
	a copy of that book and walked in Jerusalem for three weeks straight.
	There's a wealth of things there that can't be found in any other
	source I've ever seen.

	IMHO, I don't see how it's possible to see a satisfying amount
	of Israel, and also some of Egypt, in 10 days.  To see anything
	in Egypt, even "Cairo only", is at least 2-3 days plus transport.
	If you're only coming for the typical "10 day" package, you'll
	fly from the US on a Thursday PM, arriving in Israel Friday PM.
	You's leave the following Sunday for the US in the AM. What
	I'm driving at is that the usual "10 day" package is really only
	about 7-1/2 days ...

>       How easy is it to see these things 'on your own' as opposed to a
>    tour group.

	It's easy to see things here, but in the Summer there are
	folks who work as tour guides who, during the winter, are
	people like professors of archaeology, ...  If you can hook up
	with people like that, a tour - especially the first few times
	here - is *really* worth it.  Contact me by e-mail if you like.
	

>       How expensive is lodging / food / transportation.

	Lodging is expensive in European-class hotels (~$150 and up).  There 
	are "youth hostels", etc. "for cheap", and if you arrange in
	advance, B+B's.  However, there are a lot of air/hotel packages 
	available which can reduce the cost very considerably. Even
	El-Al has some such.  There are one or two travel agencies in
	Boston and many in New York who specialize in Israel and can
	give you details.

	Food here is moderate (if you're bringing dollars...)

	Transportation:  As a tourist, you can get a ticket on Egged
	the (almost) national bus line, which offers unlimited service
	for a fixed time (1 week, 2 weeks, ...) for a reasonable flat fee.
	You can get to essentially anywhere in Israel worth seeing on a
	first tour via Egged.

>       Traveling as a lone female.

	No "special" problems...

>       Language 

	Today, most Israeli schools require English language instruction.  
	Obviously, levels vary widely, but a relatively large
	proportion of people speak at least "some" English :-)  :-).
	Many (maybe most) "educated" persons here can have a decent 
	conversation in English.

	You might get a Berlitz tape and learn some basic phrases at the
	level of "yes, no, I don't understand, where is the bathroom, 
	how much does it cost, ..."

>       Tips on Immigration / Customs

	No problem with immigration with US passports. Visa is for 3 months.
	No prior visa arrangement is needed for US passports.

	Customs:  If you bring in a video camera, they *may* ask you to post
	a bond (via credit card) equal to the value of the duty on the
	camera, which they will return when you leave.
	
	(Customs here is generally nervous about large amounts of electronics
	of any kind.  There have been more scams than you can count for
	illegal import of electonic equipment.)

>       Cultural no-no's 

	In religious areas (like Bnei-Brak and Mea Sharim), in synagogues, 
	in mosques, and in the vicinity of the Holy sites in Jerusalem 
	(e. g., the Western Wall, etc.) you should wear a skirt which covers 
	your knees. *Don't* wear a sleeve-less and/or "revealing" blouse. 
	A head covering is preferred.  Generally, not the best idea to tour 
	in a religious neighborhood on the Sabbath (Fri nite/Saturday).

	(A hat is a good idea when travelling outside here in the Summer
	all the time, anyway.)
    
don feinberg

If I interpret .0 correctly (not a sure thing these days), a person whose
name is OROURKE is probably not Jewish. Therefore you may wish to know that
a "Tanach" (referred to in .1) is a Hebrew bible (an O.T. will do for this
purpose).

Dave

re .1:

Since the base noter doesn't seem to be Jewish, read "Tanach" as Bible,
specifically the Jewish Bible, known in Christian circles as the Old Testament.

Also, (no offense, Don), I think a single woman who has travelled alone
in Israel might have a slightly different perspective.  When my wife was
single, she encountered some rather aggressive Israelis -- nothing threatening,
but certainly unpleasant.  When we visited after we were married, she noticed
a difference. 

    
    Thank you every one for your quick responses here as well as in mail.
    
    To give you a little more background, no I am not Jewish. My mother is
    Protestant, dad is Catholic.  So I have a little diversity even though
    they are both Christian.
    
    The Tenach is a wonderful suggestion. I never thought of it as a
    'travel guide' but when you look at where those events were set, it
    makes sense.   It is strange, but the way I was raise those places were
    desribed in almost mythic terms...larger than life.
    
    I will not be traveling as part of a tour.  I have an Irish friend who
    is temporarily living in Bak'a as part of a training program.  I will
    be able to save money by staying with her when we are right in
    Jerusalem.  However, I think she may end up having to work part of the
    time so I may need to resort to getting around a bit on my own some of
    the time.  Also, she has only been in the country a limited time
    herself so is not in a postion to answer all my questions.
    
    She has a car and has offered to drive to nearby cities and to Cairo.
    
    I do agree that 10 days is a poor excuse for a trip, but in the United
    States we do not get much time off each year.  I figure my friend's
    offer is a rare opportunity to see a totally different part of the
    world and I would be silly to pass it up.
    
    In .1 you mentioned 'bring dollars'.  Does this mean that you can
    purchase some things with U.S. currency?  I'm not used to that being
    the case in foreign countries other than Canada.
    
    Also, regarding the matter of being a female.  One person actually
    suggested to me that I put a gold band on my left ring finger for the
    trip.  I don't mean to sound silly, but is that a 'good idea'?
    
    Lastly, I would love to hear more about the day-to-day lifestyle in the
    various parts of Israel.  What are your concerns and daily topics.  For
    example, here in the U.S. we are preparing for the Preseidental
    elections and worried about continued unemployment.  However, we are
    enjoying low interest rates lately enabling people to buy homes...
    
    So...tell me more!
    
    /Jen
    

.0>       Traveling as a lone female.

.1>	No "special" problems...

Well, I probably know as much as Don about being a lone female (:-)), so I'll
throw in my 2�.  The following is based on what I've been told by various young
women.

Israel is much like many other Mediterranean countries in the area of
male-female relations.  A woman walking down the street, on her own, may
receive unsolicited comments from men.  These comments may range from honest
and friendly to downright crude; and of course, one woman's interpretation of
them may differ from another's.  A "wedding ring" may or may not have any
effect on this.

Having said all this, I should add that the threat of *physical* violence is a
lot lower than in, say, the United States.  Avoid hitchhiking by yourself, and
also wandering around alone in very isolated countryside that you're unfamiliar
with.  But in general, as long as you're able to ignore the occasional unwanted
remark, don't let being "a lone female" stop you from travelling around Israel.

    RE:  .5
    
    I travelled in Israel by myself.  Eric's comments are generally
    correct.  But the comments from men were not occasional, they were
    frequent.  I was followed around on the beach in Tel Aviv at sunset, my
    tour guide propositioned me on a bus tour, and there were several other
    similar experiences.  I did not feel threatened, but I did feel
    annoyed.  From what I've been told, this is similar to travel alone in
    any Mediterranean country.
    
    I think that if you are staying with a friend, and have her company for
    dinner in the evening, that will greatly help to offset any discomfort
    you feel travelling alone by day.  Certainly do not restrict your
    activities; this is a wonderful opportunity so soak up as much as you
    can.
    
    I used the previously-described walking tour guide to Jerusalem, loved
    it, and still treasure the book.  You can take municipally-sponsored
    Jerusalem walking tours.  I really enjoyed mine.  We travelled into the
    Arab section outside the old walls, in an area where I was afraid to
    travel alone.
    
    -L

.4>               Also, she has only been in the country a limited time
.4>    herself so is not in a postion to answer all my questions.
.4>    
.4>    She has a car and has offered to drive to nearby cities and to Cairo.

If she offered to drive to Cairo, she certainly is *not* familiar with this
area!  There are 2 good ways to get from Israel to Egypt:
    1)	Given that you have only 10 days for your trip, your best bet is to
	fly.  It's not all that expensive, considering the total cost of your
	trip.  And if you're traveling on a US passport, you won't have to get
	an Egyptian visa in advance; they'll give you one when you arrive at
	Cairo airport.
    2)	If you are *really* very short of money, take the bus.  But the travel
	time (12 hours or more each way, most of it through very monotonous
	landscape) would be a terrible waste of your time.  You'd also have to
	get an Egyptian visa in Israel (or the US) before you go there.

Actually, 10 days is so short that maybe you shouldn't try to squeeze in Egypt
at all.  If you do, take one of the quickie (3 days or so) tours of Cairo that
the travel agencies offer.  Otherwise, you wouldn't have time to see anything.

>>    She has a car and has offered to drive to nearby cities and to Cairo.
                                                                     ^^^^^
	Unless she has done this a number of times and has a good deal
	of experience, unless at least one of you speaks reasonable
	Arabic, and unless you have passports from countries other than
	the US and/or Israel, I would be EXTREMELY CAREFUL of this:

	a) The major route to Cairo is from Ashqelon, through Gaza and
	   Rafiah.  This is DEFINITELY NOT RECOMMENDED, unless you're
	   well armed, travelling in a vehicle with reinforced windows, 
	   and are "street smart"/experienced in travelling in heavily 
	   Arab areas of the Middle East.

	b) Both the alternative "southern route" and the Gaza route are
	   ARDUOUS drives.  You will have to cross ~300 km of desert
	   and the Suez canal, each direction.  The roads are not
	   exactly US "interstate highways".

	   When I say that the Sinai is desert, I mean that in the way
	   American films like to portray the Sahara:  a dry, almost
	   plant-less, sand desert in many sections.  It is a long way
	   between some very small Arab villages.  

	   You need to have experience to deal with this trip, especially
	   in the summer.  The temperatures there in the middle of the
	   day in August can be well over 45 degrees (C). And you can't 
	   count on everything "working fine."

	   If everything works *perfectly*, this drive takes ~6-8 hours
	   from Jerusalem or T-A.  However, we did it once, and it took
	   more like 16 hours, for a wide variety of problems.  Because
	   of that, a lot of our trip was at night.  The roads are
	   neither marked nor illuminated, and many Egyptian drivers drive
	   at night with their headlights *off*.  As they approach
	   intersections, they flash their high-beams, and stand on their
	   horn...

	c) The land border crossings are places where Egyptian officials
	   will demonstrate to you - even with an American passport - what 
	   beaureaucratic harrassment is all about.  If there are any
	   number of people at the crossing station, figure on 1 to 2
	   hours of total panic while you can't figure out what's happening
	   (while they have your passport...) in order to cross the border 
	   in either direction.

    IMHO, this is NOT a trip for an amateur.  I recommend that
    you fly there.  Or take a scheduled bus (pretty cheap, quite an experience 
    in and of itself, daily service, ...).


>>    In .1 you mentioned 'bring dollars'.  Does this mean that you can
>>    purchase some things with U.S. currency?  I'm not used to that being
>>    the case in foreign countries other than Canada.

	No, you'll spend shekels.  It's just that US salaries are about
	double-triple Israeli salaries, and Israeli income tax rates are 
	double-triple US tax rates. What looks extremely expensive 
	when you're earning shekels looks rather more reasonable when you're 
	earning dollars and you view the prices in dollar terms.

    
don feinberg

    
    
    OOOPs...there's an example of my geographic ignorance!
    
    What my friend actually said was that she drives to Tel Aviv all the
    time and has FLOWN to Egypt twice.  The time factor as well as the
    traveling conditions seem to make that the viable choice.
    
    /Jen
    

    How about Petra?  How far is that?  Seems more likely to fit into
    a mini-trip than Egypt in terms of the amount to see.
    

>    How about Petra?  How far is that?  Seems more likely to fit into
>    a mini-trip than Egypt in terms of the amount to see.

	OK, I'll bite on this, but only at face value.

	Petra is about the same distance physically. But, it is a much
	longer distance logically, in that you cannot (except with
	special permission from the Jordanian Government - regardless of
	nationality of passport held; some exceptions) enter Jordan from 
	Israel (e. g., the King's polo pony).

	Travelling legally from Israel to Jordan normally requires travel 
	from Israel to a third country, that is, a country which has 
	diplomatic relations with both Israel and Jordan, like Cyprus, 
	Egypt, or Turkey, and thence to Jordan.

	Of course (even with an American, etc., passport) the Jordanians
	will not allow you enter their country if your passport has any 
	visa stamps from Israel.

	That's hardly a mini-trip.  You can fly from Tel Aviv to Cairo in 1
	hour, and no pre-arranged visa is needed at the Cairo airport.


don feinberg

    Some people carry two passports to get around nonsense of that sort -
    of course it still means you have to go to Cyprus (seems to be what
    most people do) or someplace else between visiting Israel and visiting
    Jordan.  Some countries will/used to allow you to ask that the entry
    and exit stamp be on a separate piece of paper so you could take them
    out of your passport if you needed to go someplace else not on
    "speaking terms" with the first country - I think israel used to do
    this, and perhaps still does.  I didn't do it, so I will have to get
    another passport if I visit an Arab country.
    
    /Charlotte

    Another useful travel guide to Israel is Fodor's Guide to Israel.  We
    used it in Februaru and found it to be very accurate and full of good
    ideas.
    
    Regarding dollars; it was our experience that most purchases can be
    made using dollars rather than sheckels.  In addition, frequently you
    could save the value added tax on major purchases if you paid in
    dollars, U.S. travelers checks or an American credit card in dollars.
    
    Have a wonderful trip.  We did.  Fell free to email if you need any
    specific information.
    
    Milt
    

Unless things have changed in the last 5 years, Israeli merchants have to pay
a premium for each U.S. travelers cheque they cash.  One merchant grumbled
when I presented him with lots of small-denomination travellers cheques.
He would have preferred a personal check!  Since I had assumed that no one
would accept a personal check, I'd left my checkbook home.  Generally,
you get the best exchange rate and the best acceptance with a major credit
card.  If you need cash, you can get a cash advance at a bank.

    Re: Petra
    
    She can go in the other order, no?  From Jordan to Israel proper
    (actually, the entry points may be via the West Bank, I'm hazy about
    where these are) and the only problems there would be the possibility of
    a strip search or detention by Israeli officials, which probably aren't
    likely, since according to the current State Dept. travel advisory, these
    happen most often to Arab-Americans, which she doesn't appear to be.
                                          

    
>    She can go in the other order, no?  From Jordan to Israel proper
>    (actually, the entry points may be via the West Bank, I'm hazy about
>    where these are) 

	Theoretically, yes.

	However, the borders are in fact closed on the Jordanian side and 
	on the Syrian side.  It requires special permission from the Jordanian
	or Syrian governments to open their side of the border for travel in 
	*either* direction.

	Therefore, the "third country"  travel problem still exists.

    Re: .16 the borders are in fact closed on the Jordanian side....special
    permission....
    
    How does all the travel of Palestinians to and from Jordan, to
    visit relatives and sell produce occur?  I had the impression that a
    considerable amount of produce produced by Palestinians was sold
    in Jordan on a regular basis (as well as in Israel proper and in
    Europe.)  Maybe the Jordanian special permission is required just for
    non-Palestinians?
                                                           

  you can use (if you have one) a CIRRUS ATM card at Bank Hapoalim in Jerusalem
and Tel Aviv to get shekels if you run out of travellers' cheques.  Presumably
other cards work, too.

  5 1/2 years ago when we got married, we went to Israel, flew to Egypt and
from there to Turkey.  This was a lesson in dealing with countries that do
not get along diplomatically at all.  To get a visa for Egypt (not necessary
if one is flying), we queued up *outside* the hatch in the consulate, where the
consul kept telling us to hurry up (my fingers were cold from the rain), we
had to come back later to pick up our passports.  Going to Egypt a tour was
recommended, otherwise, at least back then, one had to change a lot of money
into Egyptian currency, and later re-convert it at very disadvantageous rates.
Since I knew absolutely no Arabic, and could not even read the numbers on
the currency, I was very glad we had a tour guide - we arranged it through
an Israeli travel agency, whose name I would be happy to give you if you're
interested.

  Enjoy your trip

I received my tickets yesterday for the transatlantic portions of my trip
this Fall to Cairo and Jerusalem.

I'll be flying to Cairo first, and staying with an American diplomat while
there.

He has told me that when I go to Jerusalem, that I should stay at a hotel
called the "American Colony" and to accept no substitutes.  Any opinions
from the local people?  Has anyone stayed at that hotel?  Does anyone have
a favorite hotel in Jerusalem that they would like to talk about?

Although I would very much like to travel by ground transportation from
Cairo to Tel Aviv (just to do that particular route on the ground), it
really seems like flying is the only reasonable option.

I would prefer to fly early on a Friday morning, but I note that the
Friday morning carrier is Air Sinai; El Al flys late Thursday night,
arriving at Ben Gurion at midnight.  Comments?

I also will need to stay in a hotel near Ben Gurion airport the night
before my return (the flight home leaves at oh-dark-thirty).  Any
recommendations?

Thanks/john

John,

Ben Gurion airport is only about 20 minutes from Tel-Aviv and 40 minutes from
Jerusalem. I presume at night the times are less :-)

Taxi services are available 24 hours a day, and are reasonably priced. If you
intend going straight to Jerusalem, you can use Shared Taxis. These taxis wait
for n people (where n is determined by the size of the taxi, hour etc etc), and 
then drives to Jerusalem, charging a flat fee till Jerusalem. Once inside the 
city, the rate is the same as a regular taxi.  

So arriving in the wee hours of the morning should present no transportation
problems. The same can be said for the return leg - take a taxi from your hotel
to the airport. As Ben Gurion is an international airport it is busy 24 hours
a day.

BTW: If you are leaving Israel on an El-Al flight, you can deposit your luggage
     the previous evening at the El-Al baggage office (Hiafa, Jerusalem or
     Tel-Aviv), and perform the baggage security checks. This means that instead
     of having to be at the airport 2� hours before the flight - you only need
     to be there 1 hour before the flight.

As far as Hotels in Jerusalem are concerned, the "American Colony" is in 
East Jerusalem and not where the tourist or night life is centered. These are
located in West Jerusalem. 

As its name implies it attempts to cater for American diplomats and people who
don't want to rub shoulders with the tourist riff-raff. As such, it  may not
cater for your needs as well as other hotels. It also doesn't have the feel of
staying in Israel (both the pluses and minuses).

Perhaps some of the Jerusalemites can add their comments.

Will you be based in Jerusalem or will you be moving around the country ?? 
There is more to Israel than just Jerusalem. (I wonder how many people I have
offended with that comment :-)

Cheers,
							.... Monty

P.S.  There is a cellular telephone network in Israel, if you are thinking
      of bringing any of yours. Whether they will work here, is another
      matter :-)

.19> He has told me that when I go to Jerusalem, that I should stay at a hotel
.19> called the "American Colony" and to accept no substitutes.  Any opinions
.19> from the local people?  Has anyone stayed at that hotel?  Does anyone have
.19> a favorite hotel in Jerusalem that they would like to talk about?

The American Colony is supposed to be the finest hotel in the Arab part of
Jerusalem.  But there is a wide variety of hotels in Jerusalem, depending on
what you're looking for.  Do you want 5-star luxury or a seedy youth hostel or
something in-between?  Do you want to stay right in the center of the business
district, or in an outlying area with more natural beauty?  Will you have a
rental car, or will you be relying on public transportation?  All of these will
affect your decision.


.19> Although I would very much like to travel by ground transportation from
.19> Cairo to Tel Aviv (just to do that particular route on the ground), it
.19> really seems like flying is the only reasonable option.

I traveled this route by bus, and unless you absolutely must see the famous
Suez Canal for yourself (or are incredibly short of cash), I wouldn't recommend
it for you.  It's a trip of around 12 hours, mostly through very monotonous
scenery.

>
>He has told me that when I go to Jerusalem, that I should stay at a hotel
>called the "American Colony" and to accept no substitutes.  Any opinions
>from the local people?  Has anyone stayed at that hotel?  Does anyone have
>a favorite hotel in Jerusalem that they would like to talk about?
>

This is obviously a suggestion based on political considerations.

This particular hotel is located in very near the old city within what is
normally referred to as East Jerusalem or the Arab sector of Jerusalem.

There are many very nice hotels within Western Jerusalem such as the Hilton or
Sheraton.

I'm sure your travel agent can find many suitable hotels.

Thanks,

Cb.

>[The American Colony] hotel is located very near the old city within what
>is normally referred to as East Jerusalem or the Arab sector of Jerusalem.

Looking at a (not very good) map, I would expect it to be in the area north
of the old city called "The American Colony."  Is it up around St. George's
Church, or closer to Herod's Gate or Damascus Gate?

It seems most tourists would want to be close to the old city.  I'm not
particularly interested in huge luxury hotels; I tend to try to find small
family-run hotels when I can.

>Will you have a rental car, or will you be relying on public transportation?
>Will you be based in Jerusalem or will you be moving around the country ?? 
>There is more to Israel than just Jerusalem.

Of course.  But I've only got five days for this trip (arriving from Cairo
at 8:10am on the first day if I fly Air Sinai), so I have to limit what I do.
My wife thinks we should rent a car, but for some of the things I want to
see I'm not sure being on my own in the West Bank is advisable; organized
tours might be better.  I might rent a car for a day to drive to the coast
and up to Teverya; maybe the last day, when I'd then come back to Tel Aviv
for the night before the flight.

Approximately what do the shared taxis cost from Ben Gurion to Jerusalem?
Presumably you pay per-person in the shared taxis.  It also looks like the
railway goes right past Ben Gurion and up to Tel Aviv, but I think I remember
hearing that it is very, very slow, like here.  But I'm a railfan, though
not a die-hard railfan.

I don't necessarily intend for this to be my only trip to Israel; this trip
is primarily to finally visit my diplomat friend -- whom I refused to visit
while he was in Cameroon or South Africa -- and I'm not interested enough
in Egyptian antiquities to want to spend more than five days in Egypt, so
why not visit Israel as long as the only extra cost will be a flight from
Cairo to Tel Aviv and a few nights in a hotel -- even if I do plan to come
back in a few years.

>be at the airport 2� hours before the flight

Return flight is TWA.  (Will be arriving on either El Al or more likely,
Air Sinai.)  Lessee, 40 minutes from Jerusalem to Ben Gurion, arrive 2 hours
before the flight (what TWA recommends), that means leave Jerusalem at
3:45 in the morning.  Ugh.  That's why I'd like to spend the last night
in a hotel right inside the airport, if there is a reasonable one.

>There is a cellular telephone network in Israel, if you are thinking of
>bringing any of yours. Whether they will work here, is another matter :-)

The system in Israel is technically compatible with the U.S. system, i.e.
the same models of phones with the same software and the same frequencies
are used.  However, last time I checked, it is not permitted to bring phones
into the country.  Are there reasonably priced rentals at Ben Gurion?

/john

>My wife thinks we should rent a car, but for some of the things I want to
>see I'm not sure being on my own in the West Bank is advisable; organized
>tours might be better.  

	MUCH better.  No insult intended, but you have neither the street 
	sense nor the equipment to do this on your own.  An organized
	tour is your ONLY viable option for Shomron/Yehuda/Gaza.

>Approximately what do the shared taxis cost from Ben Gurion to Jerusalem?
>Presumably you pay per-person in the shared taxis.  

	Last I heard it was about 80 shekels. (~US$35-ish).  Per person.

>It also looks like the railway goes right past Ben Gurion and up to Tel
>Aviv, but I think I remember hearing that it is very, very slow, like here. 
>But I'm a railfan, though not a die-hard railfan. 

	It's a great trip; goes through some places you almost literally
	*only* see on the train, but you need most of a day for J'm -
	T-A - J'm.

>Return flight is TWA.  (Will be arriving on either El Al or more likely,
>Air Sinai.)  Lessee, 40 minutes from Jerusalem to Ben Gurion, arrive 2 hours
>before the flight (what TWA recommends), that means leave Jerusalem at
>3:45 in the morning.  Ugh.  

	Make that 03:15.  If the security folks are "looking" for something,
	which they sometimes are, you'll need all that time...

>That's why I'd like to spend the last night in a hotel right inside the
>airport, if there is a reasonable one. 

	There is no such hotel.  There is a decent hotel called the Avia, 
	in Yahud, which is about 10 minutes from the airport.

>Are there reasonably priced rentals at Ben Gurion?

	I believe that there are none available at the airport for rent.

.23> It seems most tourists would want to be close to the old city.

Some do and some don't.  Remember that Jerusalem has a lot of sights that are
outside the Old City.  But if that's where you want to concentrate ...

.23> I'm not particularly interested in huge luxury hotels;

Friends of mine stayed at the Jerusalem Tower hotel last year, and were quite
happy with it.  It's your basic 3-star hotel, neat and clean with tiny rooms.
But with the little time that you have for your visit, you shouldn't want to
spend much time in your room.  The hotel is right next to the center of town,
only a few minutes walk from restaurants of every type and price range, and no
more than a mile from the Old City.


.23> My wife thinks we should rent a car, but for some of the things I want to
.23> see I'm not sure being on my own in the West Bank is advisable; organized
.23> tours might be better.  I might rent a car for a day to drive to the coast
.23> and up to Teverya; maybe the last day, when I'd then come back to Tel Aviv
.23> for the night before the flight.

I think that you've got a good idea there.  While staying in Jerusalem, you're
better off sticking with buses and taxis (or tour buses for out-of-town
excursions).  Renting a car for your last day could be fun.  Finish the day
with a late supper (like 11 PM or later) in Tel Aviv, and go from there to the
airport.  Given what time your flight leaves, don't even try for a decent
night's sleep; you'll have plenty of time to catch up on the plane.

John, nude rollerskating is not allowed at any religious sites.

Jen O'Rourke (the base note author) asked about books to read.  I'm reading
the following books before coming:

Since I'm going to Cairo first, I'm starting with:

	David Lamb:  The Arabs

The next one is fiction, but it was strongly recommended that I read it
before going to Israel.  My wife is reading it now.  It's long:

	Pat Clancy:  The Sum of All Fears

The next one I saw in a bookstore, and it looked interesting.  I probably
would have decided to read it without regard to this trip.  The author is
a somewhat liberal theologian, and I may not agree with his perspective:

	Hans K�ng:  Judaism: Between Yesterday and Tomorrow

All of the above were available through my town library.  The Pat Clancy
book, of which my library has four copies, required me to put myself on
the reserve list.  The Hans K�ng book, which was just published this year,
had to be sent over from a neighboring town.

The following book, which I saw in a bookstore a while ago and plan to buy
soon, appears to be of interest to Christians:

	Stephen Doyle: The Pilgrim's New Guide to the Holy Land

/john

    I was in Israel for a few weeks in April.  I stayed with family in
    Ramat Aviv and later in a hotel called the Moriah in Jerusalem.  Good
    hotel.  In between, I travelled alone down to Eilat.  I LOVE traveling
    alone.  I felt VERY safe, safer than I do in Brookline, MA!  I have
    long blonde hair which attracted a lot of attention and comments, but
    none of it was deragatory - kind of flattering actually.  There was
    just one comment someone made, in Hebrew, when I refused his offer,
    spoken in english, to come and sit next to him at a picnic table.  He
    called me a stuck-up (for lack of a better term) goy.  Boy was he
    suprised to here my rebuttal in Hebrew!  That fixed him!
    
    Traveling alone is the best!  You meet all sorts of interesting people.
    I admit, knowing the language helps, but there is enough english
    spoken in Israel, and if you learn a few key phrases like "yes, no,
    thank you, I'm all set (for the people who try to sell you lodging or
    try to convince you to hire a car), where is..., how much" etc, you'll
    be fine.
    
    The "Let's Go" book put out by Harvard University is excellent.  Gives
    you all the budget places to go, and also is explicit, and accurate in
    its directions of bus routes.
    
    
    The Other Jen

    Hi, John Covert....
    
    Two things for you:
    
    1) Read "The Source", unless you aren't at all interested in
    archeology.
    
    2) Leave at home all the shorts and the sleeveless shirts, and keep a
    hat in your pocket.  Otherwise you may run into "dress code" problems
    anywhere and everywhere.
    
    /Charlotte
    
    PS - Learn to recognize the most common couple of Hebrew spellings for
    "felafel" - save money on lunches.
    
    PPS - Have a great time!

.19> I received my tickets yesterday for the transatlantic portions of my trip
.19> this Fall to Cairo and Jerusalem.

What are the exact dates of the Israeli portion of your trip?  If it conflicts
with the Jewish holidays, that may limit what you can see and when.

.24
    

>>Approximately what do the shared taxis cost from Ben Gurion to Jerusalem?
>>Presumably you pay per-person in the shared taxis.  
>
>	Last I heard it was about 80 shekels. (~US$35-ish).  Per person.
    
    No. It costs 24 shekels per person for a shared taxi from the Airport
    to your destination in the town.
    
    Haim
    
    

re Charlotte's suggestion to leave shorts and sleeveless shirts at home and
to carry a hat:

I really hadn't planned on bringing any shorts in December, and I don't own
any sleeveless shirts.  Tell me more about the kind of places that a tourist
might visit that would require a hat.  Western Wall?  You said I'd run into
the requirement all over.

>>>Approximately what do the shared taxis cost from Ben Gurion to Jerusalem?
>>>Presumably you pay per-person in the shared taxis.  
>>
>>	Last I heard it was about 80 shekels. (~US$35-ish).  Per person.
>    
>    No. It costs 24 shekels per person for a shared taxi from the Airport
>    to your destination in the town.

Well, Haim, that's quite a bargain, only $10 per person to go 30 miles!
It must cost almost nothing to go into Tel Aviv.

/john

Different religions have somewhat different "dress codes".  To avoid being
denied admittance to certain holy places on these grounds, men should avoid
short pants.  For women, it's more complicated; the safest bet is a skirt (not
mini) and a top with sleeves that go down at least to the elbows and a neckline
that isn't very low.

Yes, John, it's only about $10 for a shared taxi from the airport to Jerusalem.
Of course, you have to wait until the driver has a full cab (or full enough
that he doesn't feel like waiting any longer).  But it's almost always
worthwhile.

>I really hadn't planned on bringing any shorts in December, and I don't own
>any sleeveless shirts.  Tell me more about the kind of places that a tourist
>might visit that would require a hat.  Western Wall?  You said I'd run into
>the requirement all over.

John, the question of clothing is really quite simple.  Modest clothing should
be worn in all places of worship, regardless of faith, and in certain areas
where the locals might be offended by your knees (or other exposed parts of the
anatomy) such as Mea Shearim in Jerusalem.  Your head is required to be covered
in all Jewish places of worship, such as the Western Wall, but you can obtain a
kippa (yarmulka) at the entrance to most places if you do not have a hat.  I
have never found sleeveless shirts to be a problem.  This question of modesty
is common to all faiths.  For example, the Bahai Temple in Haifa will not allow 
people to enter wearing shorts, which seems to upset some tourists.

More to the point, it is sensible to have a hat to protect your head from the
sun, which can be very stong even in December.

As with all our visitors, you will be welcome, and I hope you enjoy your visit. 
Pop in and see us in the office at Herzliya.

Shalom
Baruch

re .34:

>                                            Your head is required to be covered
>in all Jewish places of worship, such as the Western Wall, but you can obtain a
>kippa (yarmulka) at the entrance to most places if you do not have a hat.

Do they still have those very silly looking paper ones at the Wall?

>I have never found sleeveless shirts to be a problem.

That's probably because you're male.  John won't have a problem either,
but his wife would.

    John isn't Jewish, even by descent, I think.  John, the easiest thing
    to do is to aquire a yarmulke before you go and keep it in your pocket
    to pull out and put on if protocol requires it.  I mentioned the shorts
    because I know you like to wear them - may not be a temptation in
    December anyhow.  The dress code thing is trickier for women because it
    varies more from sector to sector.  I wore long skirts and high socks
    (not pantyhose - I'd have roasted in July in those things;  I don't
    even wear them at home unless protocol requires it.  Ugh.), and blouses
    with "short" sleeves, and carried a very light linen jacket for when
    "sleeves" on women's clothing means covering the wristbone.  Forget
    sleeveless blouses for women.  I got in trouble in a few locations when
    my definiton of "sleeve" unexpectedly didn't match the one prevailing
    on that block of the street.  In some places, a "sleeve" is one
    covering the armpit.  Other places, it's the elbow, and still others
    it's the wristbone.  Same deal with ankles, but a skirt where the ankle
    shows never got me in trouble as long as I was wearing opaque stockings
    (socks, actually - breathable cotton ones!  I was in Israel in the
    middle of the summer.).  Your wife might want to keep a skarf in her
    pocket, although I don't remember too much trouble with places wanting
    me to cover up my hair - I wore a skarf, which I never ever do at home,
    whenever I thought it might be an issue.  As someone already mentioned,
    a hat at that latitude isn't a bad idea anyhow even places where no one
    is forcing you to wear one.  And don't forget the sunblock.  On the
    other hand, last year Jerusalem got a heavy snowfall - the weather late
    in the year may make the issue of wearing shorts, etc., academic.
    
    The dress code thing isn't just for Muslim and Jewish religious sites;
    a lot of the Christian archeological sites are maintained by various
    monasteries and such, and these have their own definitions of "modest",
    "respectful" clothing - usually pertaining much more to women than to
    men, in the usual Middle Eastern way, but definitely not allowing
    shorts on men.  The people we were traveling with mostly did not
    realize this and got into trouble at one site - Paul and I, being
    "properly" attired, had to dash off to everyone's luggage to get
    skarfs, etc., for the people who weren't allowed entrance.
    
    Hope you have a great trip!  Israel is a fascinating country.  As long
    as you are somewhat forewarned about "gotchas" like the dress code
    issue, you will be able to concentrate your attention on just how
    interesting the history is.
    
    /Charlotte

Borrowed Fodor's 92 Israel Guide from the Town Library today, and note that
the higher taxi price was not for a shared taxi but for a "special", one
all to yourself.

/john

Re 1242.35 

Gerald

>Do they still have those very silly looking paper ones at the Wall?

Last time I looked they did, but I always take my own.

>>I have never found sleeveless shirts to be a problem.
>
>That's probably because you're male.  John won't have a problem either,
>but his wife would.

I should have said short sleeved shirts, as opposed to sleeveless.  It is true
that dress code is generally more complicated for the ladies.  In general, we
have never found problems with modestly cut (no cleavage) blouses with short
sleeves, but there are places where long sleeves would be required for women.

Regarding the question of sun-block, hats, etc.  The best rule is to take care
in the sun and keep covered.  One of my daughters got well and truly roasted
last winter on a school trip to the Golan when the snow was at its thickest.
Sun, snow and wind are a lethal combination.

Shalom
Baruch

Should I bring my rollerblades to Jerusalem?

(No cracks about the note I wrote in Askenet a few years ago, please.)

    re: back to hotels
    
    I have been in Jerusalem during all times of the year and Winter is a great
    time to get a pretty good deal at most of the hotels. Given a choice I
    would much rather stay in the Western part of the town than in East
    Jerusalem, that was the case 7-8 years ago and certainly today.
    The walk from the center of town to the old city is maybe 20 minutes,
    by bus or cab 5-10 munites (depends whch bus line).
    
    

>There is a decent hotel called the Avia, in Yahud, which is about 10 minutes
>from the airport.

It's full.  Any other suggestions for hotels near the airport, please?

/john

.41>	Any other suggestions for hotels near the airport, please?

The entire Tel Aviv metropolitan area is pretty near the airport, by American
standards.

    So is the Jerusalem area.  30-40 minutes drive from either city gets
    you to the airport.  
    
    Shalom
    Baruch

Yeah, well, I was looking for 10 minutes or less from the airport.

Tel Aviv and Jerusalem are close enough to the airport that people generally
don't bother staying any closer.  Given what time your flight will be leaving,
I stick by my advice in .25.

If being close is really important to you, I'll mention that one time that I
arrived in Israel, I spent my first night sleeping on the floor of the
terminal.  It's not exactly 5-star, and the airport authorities discourage it,
but you can't beat either the price or the proximity.

>Tel Aviv and Jerusalem are close enough to the airport that people generally
>don't bother staying any closer.  Given what time your flight will be leaving,
>I stick by my advice in .25 [to stay at the airport all night].

Considering the 475 km of driving I did on my last day over there, the
length of the two flights (4.5 hours to Paris, 3 hour layover, 8 hours to
Boston) and the fact that I really don't sleep well on aircraft, especially
with three meals being served during that time, it was very important to me
to be able to sleep until 4:00, take a shower, and go to the airport.  TWA,
with a completely separate security arrangement from El Al, assured me that
two hours was enough time -- in fact, they only opened their counter at
4:00, so if I had gone to the airport before that I wouldn't have had
anyplace to go -- there aren't even any seats prior to checkin!  The floor
is hard and cold.

The AVIA was still full on Monday, but at 6:15 Tuesday evening, when I
briefly stopped at the Herzliya office, I was able to get a room.  We
checked into the hotel (re .24 "decent" is truly quite charitable -- they
really need to clean or replace their rugs and replace their linens, and
for $97/night they should be able to afford to do so!), went into Tel Aviv
and ate at "Babushka" (corner of Ben Yehuda and Yirmeyahu), went back to
the room and got 5 hours sleep, and drove to the airport.  Plenty of time,
short lines (even though the TWA flight was 75% full and even though they
had two separate security investigators talk to each person and opened about
half the bags). The only really long line was at passport control, and that
was a problem mainly because somebody brought a group of about twelve
people in and put them at the front of our line.

The American Colony Hotel was excellent, especially the food, which
was amazingly inexpensive -- $19 for an excellent five course meal,
good wines at $12-$19 per bottle.  It's really not much further from
the West Jerusalem night life (such as it is) than the Laromme -- but
you are correct that at night it is probably more necessary to use a
taxi to and from the American Colony than it would be to and from the
Laromme.  In addition, they knocked 20% off the price because of my
rather vague diplomatic connections (I actually told them I didn't
think I was entitled to the discount when I checked in, but it was
there when I checked out).  A recommendation to anyone else staying
there: don't make the mistake we did the last night and forget to
shut the window at night.  The call to prayer at some horrible hour
in the early morning is inaudible with the window closed but will
wake you with it open.

Sometime later I'll tell you about renting a car and driving to Bethlehem
and the Dead Sea (I had originally planned to go to Bethlehem by public
transport and wasn't sure I'd have time to also get down to see the Dead
Sea, but someone recommended an Arab-owned car rental agency), and through
Jericho to Galilee (in an AVIS car with the stickers removed).

/john

re .18

>you can use (if you have one) a CIRRUS ATM card at Bank Hapoalim in Jerusalem
>and Tel Aviv to get shekels if you run out of travellers' cheques.  Presumably
>other cards work, too.

When I arrived, I didn't feel like looking for a Bank Hapoalim machine at
Ben-Gurion airport (and forgot to do so as I was leaving).  I just used the
Bank Leumi exchange booth inside the luggage area.

$200.00 -> NIS 513, an exchange rate of 2.57

Two days later, I used my CIRRUS card to get cash from a Bank Hapoalim machine:

$111.48 -> NIS 300, an exchange rate of 2.69, or almost 5% better!

/john

.47>	$200.00 -> NIS 513, an exchange rate of 2.57
.47>	
.47>	Two days later, ...
.47>	
.47>	$111.48 -> NIS 300, an exchange rate of 2.69, or almost 5% better!

Both of those rates could be legit.  The shekel is loosely linked to a basket
of currencies, of which the US dollar makes up about half (by weight).  The
recent fluctuations of the dollar against the other currencies in the basket,
combined with the looseness of the linkage, could conceivably account for the
entire 5%.

Not on days when the currency markets were closed.

In any case, CIRRUS is almost always better than exchange booths.

/john