Conference taveng::bagels

    Hi...
    
    I believe its Harvey (otherwise I have been mistaken for a long time :-))
    
    rgds
    
    Harvey
                                                                             

    I had a friend in school.  His English name was Harold.
    
    				Paul
    

    I have a cousin whose Hebrew name is Chaim - he is also called Nigel.
    
    My youngest son is called Avraham Chaim in both Hebrew and English.
    
    BTW: There is a custom that if a person has been in life threatening
    danger (illness or accident) and recovers, they add the name Chaim
    (translation: to life) to all their other names.

My father's Hebrew name was Chaim, English name Herman. I guess that almost
anything starting with an "H" can be an English equivalent to Chaim.

By the way, I don't think there is any requirement that the legal name
bear *any* relationship to the Hebrew name, and, of course, one's legal name
*can* be the Hebrew name.

I knew a Chaim whose 'public' name was Victor  ... don't know why.

Chaim Herzog, President of the State of Israel, comes from Belfast.  As an
officer in the British army, he was Vivian Herzog.

    I think that there is no connection between the name and any foreign
    name as it may be for other hebrew names. Since the meaning of the name
    is "life", it cannot be easily "translated" to anything (victor was
    mentioned in a previous entry: since "vie" is life in french. it may be
    a kind of "translation"). 
    
    Speaking about myself, the name was added when I was a baby after a
    serious surgery. My other name in Hebrew is Zalman and it was the name
    of the father of my grand-mother. 
    
    Haim

My brother's middle name was "Charles" to correspond with Chaim. I guess our
parents thought it sounded nice?

Dave

    
    Off hand I can think of 3 people I know with the name Chaim.  Two
    of their English names are Hyman, and one is Howard.  If you're
    interested, I have a long list of Hebrew and English names that
    I can sort for Chaim, and check the English names.
            

    Hi Alan...  If you have a hardcopy of that list (or electronic, even
    better), can you forward me the whole thing, either to
    WILBRY::WASSERMAN, or to NUO1-1/C11.  And, yes, please post all the
    Chaim entries!  

re Vivian:

Since this name is presumably based on the Latin word for "life,"
it makes sense.

Speaking of funny English names, my mother knew Abba Eban when his name
was Aubrey.

    My uncle was born in Germany and his German name was Heinz.  Now he
    lives in Israel and his name is Chaim.
    

    
       My father was born in Germany with the name Hienz too; But 
       when he came to Palestine, they gave him the name "Chanoch";
       which he refused to take on, and kept Hienz. (plus he already 
       had a Hebrew name: Hienz Jacob Kis.
    
       In any case when he initially came to the U.S., he would at
       times jokingly introduce himself by add "57 varieties" to 
       Hienz, (based on the food company's ad copy")  And then later 
       he simply changed his name to: Henry J. Kis. 
    
       I don't think its scientific...but since Chaim does mean life,
       but you may not want to call the person Life, how about Leaf,
       or Lief.
    
       DK
     

    Re. 0
    
    My Hebrew name is Chiam, english it's Hyman. People call me Hy, I
    prefer the shortend version. 
    
    regards
    hy

I've known a couple of Chaims.  Most have been spoken of already.  But one was
Herb.  As was mentioned before, there does not have to be any correspondence.
You could name a child Chaim after your grandfather (Hyman/Chaim), but absolutely
hate any English name beginning with H and decide to name your child something 
entirely different.

My brother's Hebrew name is Chaim.  His 'English' name is Caleb...which is 
really a Hebrew name meaning Prince.  He was named after our grandfather Harry 
(Harold?) whose Hebrew name was Chaim.

-Lauren 

>His 'English' name is Caleb...which is really a Hebrew name meaning Prince.  

I don't think so.  Caleb is actually derived from the Hebrew word for
dog --  I don't recall any princely connotations for the word, but I'll
be happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.  I've always wondered 
why it's not all that popular a name in Hebrew, since 
the original (Biblical) Caleb was a heroic fellow -- one of the two
spies (along with Joshua) who brought back to Moses and the people the
minority report that the land was worth acquiring.  I guess "dog" is not
a very flattering name, though it's not clear why other aminal names (bear,
wolf, deer) are commonly used, and dog is not.

Sid

Caleb does mean Prince English name books have this meaning for the name)...
I believe the name is pronounced something closer to Kalev in Hebrew.  Dog is 
kelev.  I believe part of the confusion is that it is quite an old name and a lot of people have forgotten the meaning.  Also since it 
does sound quite a bit like the Hebrew word for dog, it probably explains why 
more Israelis don't name their children Caleb.

    Doesn't Caleb mean the heart or something like that (based on levav)?
    
    

    If we really want to have the baby's Hebrew name be Chaim, but couldn't
    (because that's the father's name also), how could we change Chaim so
    it would be close, but not exactly the same?  (BTW, we've given up
    trying to find a "matching" English name we both like, so we're
    starting from the "A"'s in the babyname book!)

    re: .20
    
    It depends on how traditional you want to be and which tradition you
    want to follow.  Ashkenazi custom is not to name children after living
    relatives*, but Sefardi custom is the opposite. :^)
    
    (*but it is common to find several live people in a family with the
    same name because they were all named for the same deceased relative)
    
    As far as finding an approximation, why?  That is, what is the
    significance of the name to you?  What other names might connote the
    same idea?  For instance, `Chaim' means `life.'  Would `Koach'
    (strength, vigor) convey what you intend?
    
    FWIW, we gave each of our children a first name based on meaning,
    independent of family history, and a middle name in memory of a 
    family member we admired.
    
    					Aaron

    Just to clarify... we're not naming the baby after a living relative. 
    We're naming him after my deceased grandfather (according to Ashkenazic
    tradition) who coincidentally happens to have the same Hebrew name as
    my husband (who obviously was not named after _my_ grandfather!). 
    Isn't there a strong prohibition against a child having the same Hebrew
    name as its parent?
    
    I've heard of situations like this where people want to name the baby
    after a certain deceased relative, so they change it slightly so as not
    to conflict with one of the parent's names.  That's what I was getting
    at.

It's a pretty strong taboo.  My sister-in-law's grandfather, whose name was
Yehuda Lev, was upset when they named their son Mordechai Aryeh.  Aryeh
is Hebrew for lion, and Lev is Yiddish for lion.  The lion, of course, is
the symbol for the tribe of Yehuda.

I don't know of any Chaim equivalents, but if you're looking for a translation,
how about Vito?  Nobody would mess with him.  Much better than a British
translation that's sometimes used -- Vivian.

    Someone suggested to me that I could "append" the first and middle
    Hebrew names together, in effect, making a new name which would be
    different from my husband's.  Is that do-able?
    

    Deb,
    
    Please remember that the name you give is the one used to call up your
    son for an aliya.  His name and his father's name are used.
    Example:   Moshe Chaim ben Chaim .  This would sound "strange" in most
    Ashkenazi shuls.
    
    Av

    Avi,
    
    Do they typically use the _middle_ name also in an aliya?  I'm in the
    situation where the _first_ name is the problem :-(  How does 
    ChaimMordecai ben Chaim sound?  Even worse, huh?
    
    Names are a very sensitive thing in my family.  We named our first child
    after my husband's relatives (even though traditionally, the mother
    goes first.  I got away with that because my husband's grandfather
    didn't have any names yet), so now it's my turn.  If I give up and name
    after my husband's side again, my family would get upset.  There is no
    other male relative on my side I can name a child after, other than
    this particular grandfather, without offending my mother, etc. etc.  I
    can't even use it for a middle name, because that would appear to be
    giving preference to the "other" grandfather.
    
    My only alternatives are to (a) hope for a girl :-)  or (b) modify
    Chaim somehow so I can still use the name, but not exactly.
    
    

Deb,

If I read you right, you're "stuck" with Chaim because that's the
only deceased male relative on your side of the family.

What about a deceased female relative?  When my nephew was born, he was
given the name Adin (pronounced Ah-DEEN), in memory of my mother (aleyha 
shalom), whose "Hebrew" name [actually Yiddish] was Eidl [==Adina in Hebrew]. 

You might want to consider this as an alternative.

Of course, you may have other reasons for hoping for a girl :-)

Wishing you a healthy baby,
Bobbi Fox

    In reply to a few points raised in previous notes.
    
    A child is given the same name as his father only if the father is
    deceased.
    
    A person is called up to the Torah with all the names that were given
    to him at his Brit (circumcision).
    
    The Sephardim give the name of a living grandfather - it's considered
    a great honour to the grandfather.
    
    Tradition has it that the father gives the name to the firstborn, and
    the wife to the second child and so on alternately.   For the origin
    of this custom see the commentaries of Redak, Ramban, Maharam on the
    verse in Breshit ch.38 v.5 (Genesis).
    
    May you give birth to a healthy child be'shaa tova u'mutzlachat!!

    Debby,
    
    I am not sure that it will solve your problem but maybe you can try
    "Hai" (the meaning is live). It is very very close to Haim and may be
    perceived as quite stange "Hai ben Haim" but you can give the baby two
    names, one of them being Hai.
    
    Haim

    Well, we found a solution.  We decided on a different male relative in
    my family to name a boy after which my husband and I (and my mother :-))
    are happy about.  So we're all set on names.  Thanks for listening !
    
    Deb
    

    So what's the name?
    
    L
    

    If it's a boy, we're going to name him Pinchus Mordechai in Hebrew, and
    probably Philip Michael in English.  This is after my great-grandfather
    (the father of grandpa Chaim), and my other grandfather.  The girl's
    name, Esther Leah, was left over from my last pregnancy :-).  Boy, am I
    GLAD to get this settled!

    Congratulations on getting through that thorny patch.
    
    Now, may you stay healthy through the rest of your pregnancy and have
    an easy delivery.
    
    L
    

Many people have a very strong practice of not revealing the name to anyone
before the bris or naming.  I believe it's something to do with an ayin harah
(evil eye), but it also avoids familial pressure (until it's too late for
anyone to do anything about it).

    Re: .-1... Yes, I'm aware of this practice, but I don't follow it.  It
    was OK with me that Laura asked what names we decided on.