Conference taveng::bagels

    
    Mazal tov, Lou! 
    
    May you merit a binyan adei ad.
    
    Jem

Mazal Tov!!!!!!!  It's nice to get some good news for a change!

Gav

                      Mazal Tov!!!

    MAZEL TOV!!!!
    
    HEALTH AND HAPPINESS TO YOU BOTH.
    
       BEN
    

    I don't even *know* you, but Mazel Tov anyway, and all my best wishes
    for a long and happy marriage blessed with all the riches of life!
    
    And thank you so much for reminding us that, in spite of Saddam, life
    does go on!
    
    Marla Goldman -- Costa Mesa, Calif.
    
     

    Can anyone out there advise me.
    
    I am married to a Jew and would like to have our marriage
    celebrated according to Jewish law and practise. We were 
    married in a Swiss civil ceremony four years ago. That formality was over 
    in a few minutes. I do not even remember it. Worse still, the 
    marriage certificate also lists the name of my husband's 
    first wife. 
                
    The process?
    
    The procedure?
    
    The place? - Anywhere that my 86 year old mother-in-law
    		 can comfortably travel	to from Amsterdam.
    
    Kindest regards,
    
    Catherine 
    

    My understanding is that according to "Jewish law and practice" both
    the bride and groom should be Jewish.  From your note, I sense that
    this is not the case with you and your husband.  Switzerland (Berne 
    and Geneva) and Amsterdam have Jewish communities and synogogues where
    you might be able to get directions to someone who could help you.
    
    Does your husband or his family also want this type of service? 
    
    Regards,
    
    ___Av

1. If your husband's marriage ended in divorce and his ex-wife is Jewish,
he must get a Jewish divorce (in Hebrew, a "get"). Talk to any rabbi about
this if it has not been done.

2. Some Reform rabbis will officiate at a mixed marriage. I attend a Reform
temple where the rabbi refuses this. It just isn't "right".

3. If you are not Jewish, the conclusion of item #2 is that you must convert.
As reply .-1 says, you can contact any rabbi to learn the procedure for
conversion. But before you embark on this there are a couple of details I
think you should know.
	a. Traditionally, a rabbi is supposed to "test" your sincerity.
	This means he is likely to discourage you at your first or second
	attempt to begin the conversion procedure. If you have seen two
	or three rabbis and haven't given up, you pass the test. Don't
	get discouraged easily.

	b. Getting married to a Jew is not, by itself, a good reason to
	convert. Would you remain Jewish, even if you were to divorce your
	husband? This is part of the sincerity test.

	c. Conversion by the Reform movement is usually simpler but would
	not be acceptable to the Orthodox movement. As usual, the
	Conservative movement gets caught in the middle of this issue.
	Your children will be Jewish only if you are Jewish (Reform rules
	differ). If you get a doubtful conversion, your children may have
	a problem when it comes time for them to marry.

4. You may already be Jewish. You do not have to be a practicing Jew to be
considered Jewish. If your mother (or her mother, etc) was Jewish, you
shouldn't have to convert.

I wish you luck.

Dave

    Thank you for your advise.
    
    My husband's family, which consists only of his mother,
    is very happy about this.
    
    There is no other family left, anywhere. 
    
    There cannot be any children of the marriage.
    
    My husband was married to a non-Jew.
    
    Yes, I am very sincere about this.
    
    My grand-mother's mother was Jewish.  
    Where does that place me?
    
    More advice now please.
    
    
    Kindest regards,
    
    
    Catherine 
    
    

>    My grand-mother's mother was Jewish.  
>    Where does that place me?

Which grandmother?  If it was your mother's mother, then technically
it makes you Jewish.  If it was your father's mother, then according
to tradition it has no bearing.

Gav

    Thank you for your quick rely.
    
    1. There is me. 
    
    2. Then my mother.
    
    3. Then her mother, Sarah.
    
    4. Then, there was Sarah's mother.
    
    According, to 2, my mother, it was Sarah's mother that was Jewish.
    
    So, now, where does that place me?
    
    Kindest regards,
    
    Catherine 

Worse still, the
    marriage certificate also lists the name of my husband's
    first wife.
                                                 
I extracted this from .6. Beyond the questions of Jewish process. I don't
understand the Swiss one. How many wives does her husband have here?

In an other vain. I have a simple one question quiz all converts should 
ask themselves. The question is am I comfortable, in any and every setting,
saying the words aloud to anyone, "I am a Jew". If a potential convert 
finds areas that this may not be comfortable thing to do then they
should carefully examine their conversion and eliminate the source of
this discomfort. If they can't then perhaps they should not convert.

Just my opinion.

/doug

    Hello Doug,
    
    re the wives. There was the first. A Swiss and she left. Then the 
    was the divorce.
    
    Now, my husband has married for the second time and I do not 
    think that he intends a third!
    
    His mother likes me a lot and keeps her son under good control.
    She is a wonderful Jewish mother.
    
    Kind regards,
    
     Catherine 
    

Welcome to the fold! Your greatgrandmother along your maternal line of
descent was Jewish. That makes your grandmother, mother, and you technically
Jewish. At this point I think you need expert advice (i.e. a rabbi) to
decide what is the next step. Find one who makes you feel comfortable.

Dave

re .11:

If all this is true, that your mother's mother's mother was (is) Jewish, then
you are Jewish, too!  Welcome back to the fold!

It doesn't mattter if any interveing generations converted to another religion;
we dont let go of our own so easily.

Any Rabbi worth his salt should be glad to help you.  Good Luck.

Louuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

    As they used to say in my old country (Russia):  "Everybody's Jewish!"
    :-)
    
    Welcome back!

    Thank you for this information. I shall now go and get 
    the documentation to verify this good news. 
    
    Will keep you informed.
    
    
    Catherine 
    

    re: 1029.12
    
    IMHO, some thoughts on  being "comfortable".
    
    How many of us who are Jewish can truly say we are comfortable in every
    situation, stating we are Jewish?  I'm not saying that we hide it, but
    just that the word "comfortable" is not always applicable.  "Proud"
    yes.  "Thankful to be" yes.  Sharing one's identity when it might bring
    ridicule or second-rate treatment takes courage.  It's courageous to
    share one's identity then precisely BECAUSE it is uncomfortable.  It
    also takes courage for a convert to anounce her Jewishness to other
    Jews, for she is thereby stating her willingness to share the
    responsibilities and destinies of the Jewish people.  Ha Shem
    challenges us to grow morally and intellectually.   If one is
    comfortable, I wonder if he/she is growing?
    
    FWIW,
    Laura
         

well, I've almost made it!

today is my last day at work before the wedding!! :-)
hopefully I'll still have a job when I get back :-(

thanks for everyone's help and good wishes!

Lou & Rochi