Conference taveng::bagels

   There were two cases of graveyard vandalism in the past few days.
   One was in Haifa and the other was in the town of Lod.  The alleged
   perpetrators have been apprehended - two in Haifa and one in Lod. 
   No Arab connection.  Just your run of the mill sick souls.

    re. "mill sick souls":
    
    Well, I'd worry, were I living in Israel. Two graveyard vandals, one
    berserk shooting around at will, suicide rate in the army sharply
    increasing....
    
    Usually, such events are early warnings of some deeper social problems.
    
    Alarmedly yours,
    
    Chris

.2>    Well, I'd worry, were I living in Israel.

While it's worth being concerned about, I wouldn't get hysterical about it.
The presence of people with mental and emotional problems is not limited to
Israel, so the fact that we have 'em here doesn't necessarily indicate "deeper
social problems".  A calmer response would be to conclude that societies, in
general, have a long way to go in helping such people.
    
-- Concerned, but not yet ready to go off the deep end

    Eric, I'm not getting hysterical. True, that all societies have their
    maniacs. However, when they show up in such frequence, there's an
    issue, somewhere. To witness, France and the racism issue.
    
    Unemotionally yours,
    
    Chris

.4>                                             ... all societies have their
.4>    maniacs. However, when they show up in such frequence, there's an
.4>    issue, somewhere.

It is true that such incidents appear with abnormal frequency in the
international press, but do you have any evidence whatsoever that this reflects
their relative frequency in real life?

Come on, Chris, let's hear some hard facts.  You mentioned the suicide rate in
the Israeli army.  How does it compare to the rate among men in the same age
group in the United States?  in the UK?  in the Soviet Union?  Are
racially-motivated graveyard desecrations more common in Israel, or in France,
than in these countries?  Or are facts outside the scope of this discussion?

    Eric,
    
    I do not need comparative analysis approaches, usually, to identify a
    problem where one exists. The fact that the Pamjat may be worse doesn't
    turn the Front National of LePen into a scouts organisation. The fact
    that more graveyards are desecrated in X doesn't turn said acts in
    France into minor misdemeanors.
    
    Or are you trying to tell me that just everything's fine and balanced
    in Israel? This is not what a friend of mine, living in Tel Aviv, and
    definitely no leftie, told me on the phone some days ago. The fact that
    things are not as bad in Israel than, say, in Ethiopia or Lebanon, is
    not an indication for everything being perfect.
    
    Independently yours,
    
    Chris

.6>    I do not need comparative analysis approaches, usually, to identify a
.6>    problem where one exists.

That's obvious to anyone.  It also should be obvious that the resources do not
exist to solve all of the world's problems immediately.  "Comparative analysis"
can help make better decisions concerning what priority to give to finding
solutions to which problems.  Of course, if the primary goal is just to find
someone to criticize, then this is unnecessary.


.6>    Or are you trying to tell me that just everything's fine and balanced
.6>    in Israel?

No, I'm trying to tell you that things are finer and more balanced than one
would be led to believe by reading the international press.  Even having a
friend in Tel Aviv does not guarantee a real understanding of what's going on
here.  We certainly have our share of problems, some of which are the ones
widely noted outside the country, but things are nowhere near as bad as is
often depicted.


-- Not Entirely Independent of Reality

    Eric,
    
    It never is my primary goal to find someone to criticise (except when
    "my" football team is losing :-).
    
    So I am lacking insight, admitted. So my friend has a different opinion
    of yours, true.
    
    Things aren't as bad as depicted in the international press? Cemetaries
    desecrated, one mad guy shooting 8 workers, military and civilians
    killed or injured in the following protests, one restaurant owner
    stabbed by his personnel, the Intifadah jumping over the "Green Line",
    n100.000 Arab Israelis going on strike, but things aren't "as bad"?
    
    Well, I have difficulties believing you. And, again, it is not my main
    aim to criticise. But when I'm worried, it is my right to say that I
    am.
    
    But if highlighting worries, in your eyes, equates to critique, than
    there's a couple of notions that need to be reviewed.
    
    Worriedly yours,
    
    Chris