Conference taveng::bagels

>    Does anyone know anything about Nevee Yirusahaleum yeshivah in Israel.
>    My daughter is there now and I am told they are "black".  

  Yes, they are.

>                                                               Does this
>    mean they are antagonisitic to American Judaism?  

  It depends what you mean by "American Judaism".  I expect that 
  you mean, "are they antagonistic to a non-orthodox way of life".
  I think that the word "antagonistic" is a little off.  They 
  definitely want their students to be orthodox tending to 
  "black".  (not crazy off the wall, just mainstream black)

>                                                       I know the chabad
>    circle is extremely non-critical and nice to anyone with a "Yiddishe
>    Nashome", a Jewish soul.                        

  Chabad has a special outgoing warmth and tolerance towards 
  "non-believers" :-)  which is not 100% typical of all the different 
  streams of the "black" yeshivot.

>                            However, I know very little about this
>    yeshivah except that I am told they don't feel people should go
>    to college. Is this true?

  Pretty much so.

  I know a lot of very fine people who are associated with the 
  school or have spent time studying there.  They are nice, kind,
  intelligent and very committed to Judaism.  Their way of life
  would perhaps seem very "different" to you but for them it's 
  the right thing.
 

I am not familiar with this term. I gather from context that it refers to Jews
who prefer to dress in long black coats, black hats, and wear their hair in a
style that is unmistakeably Orthodox. Is this correct?

Dave

>I am not familiar with this term. I gather from context that it refers to Jews
>who prefer to dress in long black coats, black hats, and wear their hair in a
>style that is unmistakeably Orthodox. Is this correct?

   I hope I haven't offended any of the no-stereotypes crowd!  
   (is that a stereotype?)

   It refers to people closely associated with the portion of the 
   "yeshiva world" in which the norm of dress is hat and dark suit, 
   length optional.

   I assume that by your comment on hair you are referring to beard 
   and payot (side curls).  This is not a prerequisite to being 
   called black - at least by me :-)

    One of my very best friends is a student at the Aish HaTorah
    Yeshiva in Jerusalem.  His wife is studying at Nevee.  I am
    told that the level of study there is excellent, and all aspects
    of the students' lives are based upon doing mitzvot, which is
    performed through observance of the related halachot (laws).
    One of the basic concepts is one of modesty -- in behavior, appearance
    and dress.  That is why you will see the women dressed in skirts
    or dresses, and the men in dark clothes -- often with a black hat.
    Hence the term "black" or "black hatter". 
    
    For many years I have been very close friends with a Chabad Rabbi
    on the West Coast.  I have experienced only warmth and caring from
    the Chabadniks, and they made it possible for me to begin studying
    Torah.
    
    Regards,
    Brian.

    In response to the first explanation, I am familiar with the range
    of Jewish observance and can fit an explanation into that panorama.
    I have studied in a variety of places, from othodox to feminist.
    At this point, I don't have a criticism of any honest way of life.
    All I want to know is , how friendly or antagonistic are the people
    at Nevee to me an American who isn't entirely living the orthodox
    live.  I just spent a Shabbos with a lovely orthodox rabbi and wife
    and their children and was reminded of the fine home quality to
    this lifestyle.  Since I've known them for twenty years, I didn't
    get any criticism for some of my obvious lacks, so Hebrew phrases
    were constantly translated etc. etc.  When I knew the point, I told
    them a translation wasn't necessary and so it went through our
    discussions of the Magillah and Torah portions.
    
    
    .... But I told them of a point of conversation with my daughter.
    She seemed surprised that I know about, and often said the "modi
    anecha"  (SP?) the daily prayer upon arising.  Calling from the
    home of her newfound friends, she said to them in a lovely tone
    of voice,  "Guess what, my mother says Modi Anecha, every morning".
    I heard them say,  "then the Meshiach might come...".  It sounded
    sarcastic to me.  I know that some Orthodox believe that when all
    of us together will observe one Shabbos together then the Messiah
    will surely come, and undoubtedly this comment was a reference to
    that.
    
    I surely am attracted to the consistency of the Orthodox way of
    life as long as my daughter is not treated like a second class citizen
    for not being born frum and being born a woman, but I don't think
    I can handle being badly spoken to because I am not leading an orthodox
    way of life myself.
                                                                         
    I am afraid of her being taught a form of magical thinking and guru
    worshipping of rabbis.  I have heard some pretty tall tales from
    orthodox rabbis. One Brooklyn rabbi insisted that Esther never
    committed any unseemly acts with the King in the Purim story.  The
    Rabbi I spent this last Shabbos with quoted Midrash that said Esther
    was not committing the sin of adultery because there was no
    unfaithfulness involved and indeed, some things are permitted because
    the entire Jewish people was saved.
    
    
    I wonder what the people at Nevee  would say if I told them 
    I knew about "Negelwasser"(sp?)  (night water
    ...the custom of washing one's hands immediately upon arising?
    
    We are not total heathens in the American diaspora!
    
    RR

    Re .5:
    
    Would that be "nachtwasser"?
    
    Mark

oops!  You're probably right.  "Nachtwasser" does translate more properly.
    I remember observing the custom in Crown Heights but I thought I
    heard my host refer to it as "negelwasser".  
    
    RR

    I've only heard it called "negelwasser"---in regards to washing the
    "fingernails".  Of course, one washes the hands, but it is the fingers
    that are the focus of the washing.
    
    Av

I think Alan's comments about Neve (reply .1) are right on.

Also, any antagonism you may experience won't be because of your 
Americanism. Neve Yerushalayim is an entirely American yeshiva
(rabbis, teachers, students), and not noted for its Zionistic
sentiment. (Tho they're neutral, rather than anti-Zionistic.)

/Fern