Conference taveng::bagels

    > I'm interested in contacting fellow BAGELERS who are Masons, especially
    > Israeli Masons.
    
    forgive my ignorance, but aren't the Masons a (non-Jewish) religious
    group??
    
    or, in other words, what ARE Masons anyway????
    
    					:-)
    					Lou
    

    Re .1:
    
    Hi Lou:
    
    No, the Masons are not a non-Jewish religous group....in fact, there
    are many Masons who are Jewish (there is also a Grand Lodge of Israel
    BTW). Some lodges with a predominantly Jewish membership conduct
    the Masonic rituals in Hebrew. However, it is not a substitute for
    attending church or synagogue - it is a means for men from all faiths
    and backgrounds to get together in peace and harmony and work toward
    a common goal - a better world.
    
    Masons come from all faiths; the only requirements for membership
    are to profess a belief in G_d and to be of good character. The principal
    goals of Freemasonry are to promote brotherly love and friendship,
    charitable activities (like the Shriner's Hospitals), and look after
    the widows and orphans of deceased Masons as well as elderly Masons
    and their spouses.
    
    The rituals date back to the time of the First Temple and through
    the symbolism of those rituals many important principals are imparted
    to the brethren.
    
    In the past, Masons have suffered persecution at the hands of the
    Catholic Church, the Nazis, the Communists, and now face new challenges from
    Fundamentalist Christians who seek to remove as many Christian Masons
    as possible from the organization and dissuade any others from
    joining. This would be truly unfortunate since Masonry, as I mentioned,
    draws men from all faiths.
    
    Hope that doesn't sound too "official" and hope also I answered
    your questions.
    
    Mark

If I remember my history, the Grand Master of the Boston Lodge at the time
of the American Revolution was Moses Hays who happened to be jewish.  Incidently
the assistant (or whatever they call it) was Paul Revere.

Gavriel
Not a Mason so don't ask any real questions  8^{)

    Re .3:
    
    Lest we forget.....Irving Berlin who passed away last September.
    
    Mark

    Have the Masons ever received any flak from womens' organizations
    regarding their discriminatory policy against women?
    
    Bernice

    Hmmm; have the Daughters of the American Revolution ever received
    any flak about there many discrimanatory policies ?  Notably, in
    this instance, against men ??
    
    				;})
    
    Dwight

    Re. .6
    
    Don't know anything about that organization.  Have you had a
    hard time becoming a daughter?
    
    Do you think two wrongs make a right?
    
    Bernice

    Re .5:
    
    Good question.......basically what keeps the Masons an all-male
    organization is tradition. The first stonemasons were all males
    and so today the practice continues as it has over several thousand
    years.
    
    There is a Masonic organization for males and females known as the
    Order of Eastern Star but I am not all that familiar with it.
    
    I think one reason the recent court decisions against all-male social
    clubs excluding females may be related to liquor licenses and public
    access (help me out someone if there are reasons other than what
    I am citing) which would not be a problem for the Masons because
    unlike the Elks, Moose, and others, we don't (that I know of) have
    bars in our lodges. Now the Shriners (who are 32nd degree Masons)
    do and how they'll fare, I don't know.
    
    Hope that clarifies things a bit.
    
    Mark

    Re. .8
    
    Thanks.  But what do liquor licensing and public access have to do
    with excluding women?
    
    Bernice

    Re .9:
    
    Well, and others who are more familiar with law than myself can
    hop in and correct me if you like, it used to be that "private clubs"
    could discriminate on membership based on the fact that they were
    "private" (unlike your friendly neighborhood tavern). However, the
    counter to that argument was that a public licensing authority (city,
    state, whoever) issued them a liquor license authorizing them to
    sell liquor to their patrons. If a public authority granted the
    license, then by extension the "private club" was no longer "private"
    because the main attraction (the bar) was in fact "public".
    
    The courts agreed with those who supported this reasoning. Hence,
    the recent rulings on all-male social clubs.
    
    Of course, like everything in law, it's a two-edged sword....all-female
    social clubs will have to admit men as well.
    
    FWIW,
    
    Mark

Mark-
Shalom!
I know the following is probably unanswerable/stupid, BUT:
is there any real solid historical evidence that the Masons
really go back to the time of Solomon's Temple, or is that
just a matter of trusting traditions? I mentioned masons to
a friend of mine and he said that this is what they call a
"bobeh-maiseh", i.e. baloney. My understanding is that
everyone agrees that the Masons go way back, but that maybe
there is some honest disagreement about just how far back.
Is that so?
-ZAITCH

    Re .11:
    
    And Shalom to you, Zaitch.....
    
    A good question for sure. No one is really sure of the origins of
    Masonry prior to the Middle Ages when the stoenmason guilds built
    the Christian cathedrals of Europe. There is much tradition and
    legend but not a lot of hard evidence.
    
    For example, where did the Israelites acquire the skills to build
    an edifice as magnificent as King Solomon's Temple? Perhaps they
    learned the secrets of the craft (i.e., operative masonry) during
    their captivity in Egypt; Masonic symbols (squares and compasses)
    have been found in the Pyramids. Or maybe they learned from the
    Tyrians under Hiram....no one knows for sure (there certainly is
    no lack of Masonic tradition and legend to draw upon as I mentioned
    earlier). In any event, the manner in which the Israelite stonemasons 
    organized their lodges (as described in 1 Kings) is still in effect
    today - apprentices or bearers of burden, fellowcrafts or hewers of
    stone, and master masons or overseers of the work.
    
    Masonic legend says Hiram the Widow's Son was the chief designer
    of Solomon's Temple (as described in 1 Kings also). However, according
    to Jewish legend I believe, Solomon used a magic worm to build the
    Temple (correct me on this if I'm in error please). I'll leave it
    to the individual to decide which legend is true.
    
    Later, descendants of those who built Solomon's Temple came out
    of the Babylonian Captivity to build Zerubbabel's Temple as described
    in Ezra 3.
    
    So there's a quick overview (very quick) of Masonic history.....mere
    legend and tradition or fact? Again, that's an individual perspective.
    
    Hope that helps a little.
    
    Mark
    
    I probably didn't

    Re .12:
    
    Something I should have clarified......what I was trying to say
    in .12 was Masonry today relies largely on tradition and legend
    to link modern Freemasonry with the stonemasons of King Solomon's
    time.
    
    Whether that link exists in fact is a subjective judgement.
    
    Mark