Conference taveng::bagels

>...rekindle old desires .... of 50 years ago?


Let's hope not!  On the other hand Germany is a _occupied_
country.  It's government/army/etc. are ONLY allowed to exist
with permission of U.S., France, England, and CSSR militaries.

What really upset me about this announcement was what I heard on NPR news last
night as a result of the summit - that Germany has been told not to expect the
return of any the areas they lost during the war. 

While it may be too late for Egypt, shouldn't the rest of the Arab world
(specifically Jordan and Syria) be told a similar message in regards to the
territories lost during the war?

An interesting case of the old double standard.  

Steve

    Re .2:
    
    I think the key phrase here is, "areas they lost during the war".
    IMHO the triggers that brought Hitler to power were: 1. Economic
    depression and, 2. The Nazi's manipulation of German grievances
    with the Versailles Treaty accords (e.g., the Rhineland, Sudetenland,
    etc). These later became excuses for rearmament and eventually WWII.
    
    West Germany does not resemble the Weimar Republic in many respects
    (fortunately), not to mention it is a very prosperous country. The
    question remains, however, as the WWII generation of Germans passes
    from the scene, and given the trend toward a decreased role for
    both the Soviets and the US in Europe, is there enough impetus
    presently available to ensure the horrors of WWII are not revisited
    on the world again?
    
    Mark

    I was at Shabbos services in Baltimore a few weeks ago just as the
    Berlin Wall was coming down, and the Rabbi started his sermon with some
    recent words from Eli Wiesel:
    
    "the Germans now laugh while the Jews still cry"
    
    
    	

    <set flame on>  So long as you brought it up...
    Isn't it amazing how Poppy and his cronies seem so happy about German
    reunification, while Gorby is at least being more responsible?
    
    Cold Warriors like Poppy and the Featherhead think that the division of
    Germany has something to do with "dirty Commies" and keeping Russia at
    bay.  This is revisionism that leads to "the Holocaust didn't really
    happen" revisionism if left unchecked.  Also recall that the Russians
    suggested reunification of Germany (neutralized) in the '50s but the US
    turned it down.  Eisenhower had a modicum of common sense and a
    firsthand sense of history.
    
    Yes, Germany is occupied, and there's no peace treaty, so it certainly
    doesn't make sense to surrender to them now, just because the people
    currently in power aren't interested in causing trouble.  The lengthy
    cultural history of Mitteleurope warn us that a strong, united Germany
    has potential for trouble.  
    
    What benefit is to be gained by this suggested anschlu�?  Small states
    tend to be economically powerful, while large ones are militarily
    powerful.  Witness Sweden, Belgium, the Netherlands, etc., none of whom
    have much "military" strength, and who aren't tied up in ancient
    nationalism.
    
    Let's hope the French and Russians have better memories than Poppy!
    <set flame off>
           fred

    The only ones who, in the moment, don't speak about reunification are
    the Germans themselves. Kohl has presented a 10point / 3 steps program
    which, ultimately, MIGHT result into a "confederation" of the two
    German states, � la EEC'92. No timespans were mentioned, but later
    comments suggested that they are thinking in magnitudes of decades, not
    days.
    
    The East German government (under the now abdicted Krenz), have stated
    several times that reunification is not "a discussable subject". The
    East German population is VERY cautious about being "adopted" by their
    Oh so generous Western cousins.
    
    I'd also be cautious about the West German Army, etc., existing only
    because of the occupying countries good will. They have it, now, and it
    can't be simply taken away from them.
    
    Updatingly yours,
    
    Chris
    
    P.S.: Both Germanies definitely are NOT part of Mitteleuropa.
    
    Updatingly yours,
    
    Chris

    Re: -.1
    
    >The only ones who, in the moment, don't speak about reunification are
    >the Germans themselves. 
    >
    >								...The
    >East German population is VERY cautious about being "adopted" by their
    >Oh so generous Western cousins.
    >
    >    Updatingly yours,
    
    I am afraid the "Updatingly ours" is incorrect.  What I heard yesterday 
    on NPR is that the East Germans in many cities were demonstrating with 
    slogansof unified Germany.  East German's *New Germany* (I forgot the 
    German spelling) called the idea "interesting".  The only ones who are 
    not talking about unification is the East German government.

I heard an essay by Daniel Schor on NPR last week about the reunification 
of Germany. He said that while governments and political leaders talk about
possible reunification a few years from now, actual reunification is
taking place now. The West Germans are working out unoffical currency
exchanges for East Germans.  West German medical personnel have gone to
East Germany to fill vacated medical positions there. Some East German
border towns have hooked up to the West German electrical power grid due
to unreliable power in the East.

He went on to say that while The East German government and economy are
collapsing there is natural move to become part of West Germany.

I think we will see the defacto reunification of Germany sooner than
many people think. Offical reunification will take longer.



Simms

    Re .7:
    
    "Neu Deutschland" perhaps?
    
    Mark

    It is "Neues Deutschland".
    
    on the other item:
    
    Spiegel (and myself) is correcting themselves (the same issue is being
    discussed in the USSR notesfile): Genscher did NOT participate in the
    development of Kohl's 10 point program.
    
    Correctingly yours,
    
    Chris

    Re .10:
    
    Thanks for the correction, Chris....my German is about 20 years
    rusty.
    
    A flag might have gone up if they had used "Gross Deutschland"
    instead.....
    
    Mark