Conference taveng::bagels

    The Bar or Bat Mitzvah is a traditional passage to adulthood.  At that
    time a person becomes an adult in the eyes of the community, which
    means they are responsible for their actions and that they cound as an
    adult, for example when 10 people (Reform) or 10 men (Orthodox) are
    required to say certain prayers.
    
    However, Jewish study does not end at the Bar or Bat Mitzvah.  Or, at
    least it SHOULDN'T.  Just as high school education can get into more
    involved subjects than elementary education, post-Bar Mitzva education
    can go deeper into subjects than earlier Hebrew School or Sunday
    School.
    
    In today's society, it is expected that most students who persue their
    education past the Bar Mitzvah stage will also persue their education
    beyond High School.  Confirmation is more of a graduation ceremony from
    the advanced Hebrew education they undertook.
    
    It is not limited to Reform congregations.
    
    				Paul
    

    Re .1:
    
    Thanks, Paul, for the information. It's interesting to note that
    Confirmation in Christian churches is more akin to a Bar/Bat Mitzvah
    then Confirmation as it applies to this note.
    
    One other question: is Confirmation a relatively new concept? I
    read today where Bar Mitzvah goes back to the 2nd century C.E. and
    Bas Mitzvah is relatively new (only 100 years or so). Also, did
    it arise from a concern that many young Jewish people weren't that
    involved with synagogue after Bar/Bat Mitzvah and so was a way to
    re-affirm their Judaism?
    
    Thanks again for answering all these questions.
    
    The more answers I get, the more I want to ask questions!
    
    Mark

    As far as I know, confirmation is never done in orthodox circles.
    According to .1, it's a graduation from Jewish studies.  Among
    orthodox Jews, there's never a graduation -- Jewish education is
    a lifetime pursuit.

    Presumably confirmation was started by the reform or conservative
    movement, so it can't date back more than 175 years or so.

    Re: .-1
    
    Confirmation does indeed happen in Orthodox shuls.  I speak in the
    first person here.
    
    				Paul
    

Re: .4

There is absolutely no traditional source for such a practice. Neither is
it necessarily in conflict with Halacha, if it is simply another name for
graduation, as Gerald suggests. 

I have never heard of such an event under Orthodox auspices. Please cite
particulars.

A word on Bar Mitzva in general is in order here. It might shock some to
learn that no action whatsoever is required to become a "bar mitzva", 
literally obligated to perform "mitzvos", precepts. Upon reaching puberty,
each Jew assumes such responsibility. In Israel today, as in ages past,
very little uproar is made at this occasion. Extravagant affairs are 
mainly an American phenonenon. In many instances, I find the lavishness
repugnant, especially since it actually marks not the beginning of the
youth's spiritual life, but the dead end.

With all the good intentions that some parents have, the smattering of
Jewish knowledge acquired by children in an after-school forum very
often does more harm than good. Even those children who go willingly
emerge at age 13 with half-baked, childish concepts, which they take
to be the sum-total of Judaism. When they later encounter challenges
to their religion, either directly by missionaries, indirectly in the
form of comparative religion or philosophy courses, or in meeting an
intriguing member of the opposite sex who happens to be non-Jewish, they
find next to nothing in their studies to compel them to object. This
tragic scenario is borne out by many displeasing statistics, some of
which are cited elsewhere in BAGELS. "Well educated" (read: Hebrew
school attendees) appear to fare little better than their "unlearned"
peers. 

What then? For those who truly care about the Jewish future of their
children, there exist today hundreds of full-day schools, at least one
in every major Jewish community, and quite afew in "minor" communities,
as well. 

I believe people reading this notesfile, by and large, realize the gravity
of today's dilemmas, and will seriously consider this alternative. We face
today a brave new world, and must respond with boldness.

Jem

>                                       In Israel today, as in ages past,
> very little uproar is made at this occasion.

    I've been witness to several Bar Mitzvahs at the Kotel, and there is
    *quite* an uproar.  There celebrants seemed to be not-very-religious
    Sephardim, and the object seemed to be to make as much noise as possible.

    Re: .5
    
    Reference:  Augdas Achim, West Hartford Connecticut does (or did) have
    them.
    
    				Paul
    

RE: .5

>>>	I find the lavishness repugnant...

I do to, but not in and of itself.  I think that wealthy families should be
able to have big parties.  I find it repugnant when any party, large or small,
becomes the central part of the celebration to the exclusion of the Bar/Bat
Mitzvah itself (and the associated responsibilities).

>>> 	With all the good intentions that some parents have, the smattering of
>>> 	Jewish knowledge acquired by children in an after-school forum very
>>>	often does more harm than good. Even those children who go willingly
>>> 	emerge at age 13 with half-baked, childish concepts, which they take to
>>> 	be the sum-total of Judaism. When they later encounter challenges to
>>> 	their religion... they find next to nothing in their studies to compel
>>> 	them to object. 

I couldn't have said it better myself.  In what is probably a majority of
cases, especially where the family commitment is more "Jewish Identity" than
"Jewish Practice."  I am, however, constantly amazed by the number of youth
that break this mold.

    -	I've seen Bar/Bat Mitzvah invitations that state: "In lieu of
	gifts to me, please donate to <such and such> a fund."

    -	Kids are volunteering to pick up food left over from lavish
	Bar/Bat Mitzvah parties and weddings -- food that the caterer
	would have thrown out -- and deliver it to shelters.

    -	Kids in our synagogue volunteer time at nursing homes, schools
	for children from broken homes, etc., all with the intent of
	performing the mitzvah of "G'milut Chasadim," or "Deeds of
	Lovingkindness."  They do this regularly, not just at the 
	holidays.

    -	Kids are donating 10% of the money they get for their B/B Mitzvahs
	to charitable organizations.

It's frustrating to see how many Jewish kids have no interest in anything
Jewish except the Bar/Bat Mitzvah and the money, but I know there's hope when I
see kids do things like this.

L'shanah tova,

Dave